Is WoW considered canon in the Warcraft universe?

>ranged dps
>fun in PVE

I'd like an option. Being the leader of an elite order is fun, but sometimes I'd like to be one of those grunts running around with a shitty sword and shield on the frontline

If you're the type of fan who considers Fallout 3 canon you can go fuck yourselfthen you should be alright with anything being canon

the stories are so convoluted and full of lame characters I would prefer they weren't canon

plus all the cool characters from WC3 got killed off

So what you're saying is you want to play an MMO where you have no progression? From start to finish you kill bandits?

Never make an MMO.

I have one of them. It was pretty good

Not in my head

Then just make a new character and stick to the questlines until like level 50.

Warlocks are fun, but there damage isn't great (or at least it wasn't before the last hotfix, if someone's got a new chart I'd love to see it.)
MM hunter is alright. BM is just screaming at your pets and feels like it has no agency. Would be good if you like pets though
Mages seem to be in a good spot these days.
I hear shadow priest is pretty fun with the madness mechanic

That's all you are doing beyond the writing jerking you off and raids

Is WoW, SWTOR, Everquest, etc. the only MMOs you have ever played?
Don't reply to me again.

>you have no progression?

ummm what exactly do you think progression is?

Sounds like you lack imagination

No you're not?

I was thinking of Warlock because I like the idea of being a summoner and Demonology seems like that but I heard they were really not fun to play.

I don't really mind lower DPS if the class itself is fun.

WoW is canon, it's the old games that aren't.

Okay genius name me an MMO where the end game guys are just regular people?

ummm I'm not sure user-kun, why don't you teach me?

for he who wields the headcanon haseth the power...

I've been killing plenty of wolves this expansion

Eve Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, Warhammer: Age of Reckoning, Runescape in 2002, Dark Age of Camelot

>mfw trying +10 Arcway

This is actually real, shit has been retconned

Blizz's fanbase doesn't really care as long as they get their fix of drops and xp every week. Just keep the villains flowing.

Yes and they're never treated as anything beyond "random wildlife animals we should harvest for resources and / or kill because they're there"

I'm not sure what you're getting at?

That's cool, but most people haven't.

If they at least gave them a good amount of screen time in game first, it might make some sense to have them get into positions of power.

Eve Online doesn't even have a story. SWG had a ton of overpowered shit in it's end game, so did Warhammer Age of Reckoning and Runescape.

I never played DAoC and Ultima but I assume you're also being stupid about them too.

>kick 8 carp into the river
>kill 7 worms
>talk to this person
>sift through turds
>collect crystals

hmmm

As long as something doesn't drastically clash with the old games, I am all for it. But there is some stuff that does.

The point is that endgame shouldn't exist and it certainly shouldn't be raid content.

Dont play marksman unless you want everyone to hate you

Trying to do decent dps in a confined dungeon without pulling everything is suffering.

Frankly I wish they'd get rid of all this cone shit and make the spec more single target oriented

Yes, but what's canon today could be changed tomorrow
Wc3 Suramar ruins. Legion a random purple bubble existed between eastern kingdoms and northrend

>i want bosses to not be bosses
You're everything wrong with video games.

>Okay genius name me an MMO where the end game guys are just regular people?

Vanilla WoW

WAIT so are they going to bring back Bolvar?

I want to play DK but I want to get invited to groups. Do I just play Frost and make my own groups?

rellay makes u think..

>Eve Online doesn't even have a story.
Hang on nigga

You better start reading up
content.eveonline.com/pdf/eve_v1.4_white.pdf
content.eveonline.com/pdf/Chronicles 2006-7.pdf
content.eveonline.com/pdf/Chronicles 2007-8.pdf
content.eveonline.com/pdf/Chronicles 2009.pdf

...

That's being naive. Endgame HAS to exist, nothing can just keep on going forever. History shows us that without proper end game the people playing the game get annoyed.

You are a morons.

how autistic do you have to be to put serious thought into whether or not World of WarCraft is canon in WarCraft

EVE does have regular ass PvE content that are basically dungeons/raids though
I dunno what exactly they entail since I've never played the game but I know they exist

He's only back to stroke DK egos for the Class Order

you know how Age of Sigmar isn't really canon?

I don't think you understands. WoW IS THE CANON UNIVERSE, nothing earlier really matters to anybody not from /vr/, even if they're from Blizzard. WoW overwrites everything in the older games because it is the popular game that made more money than god. And size of the RTS players is maybe 1% of the MMO players at best. WoW IS Warcraft, every other part is just retroactively a spin off.

>I dunno what exactly they entail since I've never played the game but I know they exist
Recent PvE stuff I'm aware of is all that wormhole stuff, ancient alien civilization archeology basically. The players have founded fucking orders devoted to cataloging them.

Otherwise, big canon wise, the Eve world is relatively stable, a section of the plot is then basically devoted to those immortal cunt billionaires/royals/pilots who never stop fighting among themselves and what they get up to

none of it should be canon. literally nothing from WoW lore wise is worth keeping in contrast with what could've been done with every character / scenario and faction otherwise.

There's a lot you can work with in the Warcraft lore, void lords, corruption and misuse of nearly every main character in the series is not how it had to be. Having Warcraft IV continue more organically and sensibly off the events of TFT would be pretty easy being that it won't be built around the MMO format so the forsaken / blood elves / dranei for instance don't need to be molded to fit player freedom

there's still Warhammer games coming out

there will NEVER be another RTS WarCraft. WoW is the canon, if anything it's the old shit that's non-canon by now with everything they've changed.

There was only one matrix movie

>Tirion is strong as fuck well known lore character
>Literally dies screaming when we find him for no reason at all

What a shitty ending, this is the guy who went toe to toe with the Lich King

MM is one of the highest DPS specs at the moment, unless you're a retard it's fine

I've never played WOW for PVE

fuck this shit im dropping

it's a semi-joke
Age of Sigmar is canon, and it fucked up the entire base of lore.
Most people hate it. There's a lot of people still devoted to playing earlier editions of the game and maintaining that lore.

>Playing WoW for PvP

My sides, what a waste. PvP has always been unbalanced trash

I'm not talking about DPS user, I'm talking about it being impossible to use without pulling everything because 2 of your 3 damage dealers are massive cones with 50 yard ranges

Well, you aren't really. Apart from I the case of DK andDH. You're just the leader of a private, elite group. Locks aren't king of all locks, they are the leader of a small society with vast power and resources. Priests aren't Pope of all priests, but the head of a small alliance of likeminded colleagues. And you do not hold power over faction military.

t. kid who never had an arena rating with 4 digits in it

>Warcraft 4 will be a Savage clone
>play as a generic footman/grunt with zero respawn, weak damage and only strong in ground, with other footmen/grunts and AI controlled footmen/grunts
>get mortar/catapults for towers so the footmen/grunts can get through
>single Hero per faction, Commander chooses who will go as Hero
>only player controlled peasants/peons can build buildings, AI ones can only harvest

I would buy 4 copies. Pre-ordered even.

>hero go kick 8 carp into the river
>kill 15 drog'bar
>but remember to spray them with this shit first
>do it all
>you've saved our river hero here's some gold and a piece of gear
>get to 110
>it's a world quest now
>eh you know the drill just do all that but now i'll give you artifact power or something
>do it all
>yeah whatever thanks check back in tomorrow so you can do it all again for some order hall resources
>soon come to realize all the world quests are just quests you've already done in broken isles

>you took my son's future
>now I've taken yours
god damn Greymane is based

Monks are the leader of all monks.

Max range the pack or change your positioning so you're shooting into a wall/where you came from, the only instance where it really becomes an issue is Court of Stars

>since using the bug, i've got 2 legendaries in 1 week

based ownedcore

So what the fuck is Sylvanas' problem?

Is she just perpetually assblasted about being undead?

Arena is low skill FOTM bullshit, always has been. Blizzard has never managed to get PvP right, WoW has lived and died by it's PvE since day 1, hence why PvP is a constant afterthought in every expansion

>The bug
bait?

>Warcraft 3 describes Azeroth as massive, taking the characters in game months to get around
>World of Warcraft in comparison is incredibly small

I mean I know it's a MMO and it's not feasible but the feeling of being underwhelmed will not go away.

She wants to live forever, because when she dies she knows she's going to eternal torment and torture.

And she wants to expand her race

You weren't a regular joe at the end of Warhammer AoR, and the vast majority of the classes you weren't even at level 1.

eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/aegwynn/Akkis/feed
>he doesn't know

she was probably satisfied with progress of the Forsaken until Varimathras and Putress blasted her asshole, forcing her to go into full-blown ass raping mode of Lordaeron

Light granted him his one final blessing. You don't get a second. Also, how else was the player going to get Ashbringer?

I was actually thinking about how Blizzard could probably make a very succesful savage clone.

Not sure I'd say better than Savage, but it would have a lot of draw, by virtue of being blizzard.

Could have a base blizzard savage game, then you have more than 2 sides even.
So Orcs vs Humans, or Horde vs Alliance.
Even having one based on Starcraft, or one based on an amalgam of their franschises.

Convince me of updating to Legion.

Warcraft lore ended here

I think everyone does that user, it minimizes chances of pulling stuff but doesn't completely eliminate them, on top of that its not always viable.

I'd rather they just get rid of sidewinders

As for barrage it'd be nice if they made it an aoe on impact instead of a cone, or simply make it single target

>use bug to get ahead
>perma banned a week later

Not worth it

You play anything but Frost. Tanks are always needed, and Unholy does decent ST and AoE. If you do Frost, you will never get invited.

Explain this shit at once

To be continued in Bonerlord.

...

Is she just perpetually assblasted about being undead?
Literally the current canon
Her big expansion plot was her struggling between her duties as a leader and being a self-serving cunt

Ironically she's probably the only faction leader that would ever struggle with that choice for more than 5 seconds
Lets make her warchief

If varian/genn/anduin acted like Sylvannas alliance would love it.

I'm honestly kind of curious how that all went down. I assume it's something like
>Sargeras: "Holy shit it's Gul'dan! Waddup, I thought you were dead."
>Gul'dan: "Technically I'm a Gul'dan from a different timeline, some idiots thought fucking with time was a good idea."
>Sargeras: "..."
>Sargeras: "Yet another reason all mortals should be destroyed... Present company excluded of course."

Think about how the stories went in their respective universes when Arthas and Tychus Findlay died.

Hearthstone is more cannon than WoW in the Warcraft Universe.

>Vanilla
You are a random adventurer in a dangerous world, sometimes you contract for your faction but mostly you do your own thing. The story happens around you by virtue of you seeking it out; even in Naxx and AQ40 (including Scarab Lords) your character heard of stuff happening and went there. You are pretty weak compared to faction leaders and major lore characters, but they're all busy.
>Legion
Major lore characters need you to help them save the world constantly, the story only progresses with you there, the world is smaller and much less dangerous.

I definitely preferred the atmosphere in vanilla, it felt way more like a world rather than a single player WRPG

I think they did it to sort of solidify how powerful Gul'dans minions are and how this really isn't the same Legion we faced in Outland.

Killing him off really makes them seem tough and plus even after we kill that demon he summoned that killed Tirion, it's going to be a boss in Nighthold not to mention all the significant members of the Legion like Tichondrius like Brutallus never really die unless it's in the Nether so they're back as well and probably more powerful.

If you don't believe that then it was the only way for the player to get their Ashbringer without him making up some excuse like Thrall did
>player the events at the Broken Shore made me not feel the light anymore, take my sword and go kill shit I'm done being a Paladin now I'm just your follower at your Order Hall

nah. Greymane is based and Sylvanas is a fucking cunt, and I say that as a Horde main since vanilla

>Proceeds to get blown the absolute fuck out and just pisses her off more while going against his leaders will
Great idea wolfman

I'd counter with monks being a small group in the first place, but fair. My point is, it sounds like people are blowing the YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE out of proportion.

>But I can't because teenages have a need to slay gods

We were slaying Gods as early as ZG and AQ. Warcraft isn't really a game or series for something as subtle as you want.

What is there to explain? You use the bug to dramatically increase your chance to get a legendary.

cunts make great leaders tho
see Garrosh, Varian

Nostalgia/Current WoW thread? Can this even be done?

Post best Warcraft cinematics/Trailers

youtube.com/watch?v=U5WWEi8XF6M

youtube.com/watch?v=Jcr594QVzkc

youtube.com/watch?v=1FWd6O5LC2w

youtube.com/watch?v=JmndxoF74qQ

youtube.com/watch?v=_OKqik-G9x4

youtube.com/watch?v=BCr7y4SLhck

yeah except that time you killed all those major lore characters in vanilla

So let's say WoW never happened.

It's 2008, Blizzard decides to make a Warcraft IV.

What would the plot be about?

And you can experience all that on a new character.

I just got the game a bit over a month ago for the first time. I had more fun levelling 1-60 than my boosted character 100-110.

My experience with Diablo III is limited, but it frightens me how much modern WoW resembles Diablo. The same skinner's box treadmill where people force themselves through content just because of the possibility of a "reward" at the end. It feels so cynical and lifeless.

That's what I'm thinking as well, a more casual one, with like 10-20 match times and stuff, or longer but being constantly open to new players joining

Varian wasn't a cunt, he's just a mary sue that the writers love for no reason

Yes, what is the bug?

Been replaying wc3 lately. Took ages to get the cinematics to work, needs a remaster soon.

Dislike missions where I gotta kill my ally bros. poor Uther. Also scourge OP as fuck

>..to turn to bloodlust, then we will become as vile as the Orcs...

yes

the story could advance in a non-retarded way in an RTS, and it can't in an MMO, blizzard have confirmed there will never be a WC4 (and even if they made it, it'd probably be shit considering neo-acti/blizz) so the once cool story will never be good again.

It's the natural conclusion. At this point it'd be retarded if we were still these unknown adventurers just popping up to collect bear arses

WotLK cinematic is the best cinematic Blizz has ever created. Fite me

>Events of the broken shore just ended
>lost our king
>Jaina and Genn out for horde blood for some reasaon even though it's the legion that killed everyone
>Anduin understands that Azeroth's only hope is a unified alliance and hord fighting against the legion
>Specifically tells genn not to attack the horde
>Genn attacks the horde
>loses their best airship and a couple hundred people in the process as well as a battleship
>"AHA, IVE SET YOU BACK A BIT"

Genn needs to understand now is not the time for petty things such as vengeance, wait until the world isn't about to be destroyed before that shit.

So did he forget that his kid jumped in front of the arrow?
Fuck, on that note did Sylvanas forget to bring her instant kill fuck you poison arrows?

Well, blizz are bosses so it seem all that happens is canon.
For me, lich and the rest are shit, especially killing of all warcraft chars

Everything up to wod could/should be considered canon.

WoD's incredibly stupid retcon everything muh timeline bullshit should never have happened.

On a side note, can anybody who has played legion explain to me why gul'dan sets illidan free? Illidan, demon hunter, raid boss who drops "skull of gul'dan"?

>What would the plot be about?
Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty

I've been wondering what a Warcraft 4 would look like considering the plot of games like Legacy of the Void or Diablo 3

I don't think Blizz has it in them to create anything like 3's plot again. And 3 wasn't exactly any work of literary genius, but it drove good gameplay.

I had to exit the game and play the extracted videos separately whenever they came up during the campaign.

This Gotta say though, the WC3 Arthas cinematic, especially the part where he hears all the quotes when he fucked up, is pretty great

Arthas did nothing wrong

Killed who? Literally just KT

WoD cinematic had really inspirational music tho

>pandas
>should be considered canon

>Took ages to get the cinematics to work
Really?
I recently played them too and the cinematics wasn't a problem.

Only hard to stream them for me.

>Dislike missions where I gotta kill my ally bros.
It was hard to play through the first time.
I think the Human and the Undead Campaigns in RoC are among the best in RTS games.

But we already knew WoW was coming by the time of RoC.
And I had daydreamed about playing a character in the warcraft universe before that.

I thought the high elves were cool and Dalaran was amazing.
I was gonna be a high elf mage and go to Dalaran.
Then I destroy Quel'Thalas and Dalaran during the undead campaign, while killing one of the old heroes and the sister of another.

This is a fact but there are lots of good ones.

It's just a shame every cinematic post Wrath had to ditch the "foray into the world" vanilla and TBC style in an attempt to recreate perfection.

>The Cataclysm trailer wasn't in part heroes in the world as the cataclysm happened
Lost opportunity much like the rest of the expansion pack

I think TBC has the best patch trailers though.
>The one...
>Who will deliver us all

Illidan is still dead, Gul'dan came to get his corpse to help summon sargeras or some shit. Illidans soul is out in the twisting nether

It will probably Arthas and Illidan tomfoolery.

Humans and Nelves would be joined in one faction.

Orcs would still be unchanged, possibly gaining more allies.

Illidan would have the main Blood Elves faction with Draenor allies.

Scourge, I don't know, they'd be more or less the same, more focused on plague and virulence and converting units.

I had to download some old bullshit codecs and delete Blizzard's ones, worked in the end but annoying

>alt time line
>blizz never killed off any of their warcraft characters
>you all bitch and moan "blizz is lazy! they never do anything new just rehash rehash rehash!!!"

>>"AHA, IVE SET YOU BACK A BIT"
stopping Sylvanas from enslaving Eyir damns her and the Forsaken to guaranteed death in the long run. Once she uses up her last few val'kyr, she has no way to get more and therefore can't create new forsaken or rez herself

DHs contact him in our class campaign. He's alive and he's with SOMEONE.

When he leaves he says we must go. Or something to the affect of him and at least one other person need to move.

It's a tough balance to be honest. If you're invested in your character enough that you care about the adventure and story, not just raid mechanics and loot drops, it also feels weird if you never were to be recognized for the many times you've saved the world and pulled off amazing feat after amazing feat. People used to complain all the time that no one seemed to give much of a shit that you stopped C'thun, beat back Kel'Thuzad, stormed the Black Temple, prevented the summoning of Kil'Jaeden, halted the manifestation of Yogg-Saron and brought down the Lich King, staved off th Cataclysm and survived against all odds clinging to the back of Deathwing, etc.

I understand if it feels like the magic has gone, but the alternative was getting non-sensical.

War in lordaeron, the humans of stormwind trying to reclaim the region for the remaining living lordaeron citizens.

go home day9

Forgot about pandaland. Nothing stood out in that expansion and nothing important lore wise happened so it actually completely faded from memory.

fuck you for reminding me

now answer my question about gul'dan and illidan, what kind of story gymnastics did blizzard do to make that make any fucking sense

>he's just a mary sue that the writers love for no reason
A good portion of Warcraft's newer characters are Mary Sues at this point. There's something that's been seriously wrong in their writer department for years. Most of them come from the comics.

The fanfics became the actual canon.

She's made some kind of deal with Helya, probably be stopped in 7.1

>AQ
We didn't really kill C'Thun, just forced him back to sleep when he was at 1% strength
>Just hakkar, and if I remember right he was very weak too. Plus his spirit or whatever didn't die (see ZG 2.0)

No it doesn't, again I don't know where Genn fans get this finality from, Sylvannas hasn't given up on Eyir, let alone immortality, Genn just foiled that attempt.

>Illidari vs the Scourge is the main focus
>Alliance and Horde are a footnote trying to keep themselves alive in the tide of undead and naga, Broken, demon hunters, and enslaved demons.
Fucking fund it that sounds amazing

>...You are not my king yet, boy.

>Pandas
>Not canon
At least one existed in W3.

I like how they realise Med'an is utter shit and just never mention him In-game

He sounds like shitty 13 year old fan fix, what were they thinking

something to do with being a child of light and darkness and whatever that retard Naaru was talking about with the Light's Heart
he's secretly a voidlord or some bullshit who the fuck knows

>...Forget this business! Lead your men home!

As a side joke character that was entirely optional

Whether or not Pandaren were really canon was debated until the moment mists was announced.

what's the biggest bullshit blizzard ever pulled and why is it

>there must always be a Lich King! Or the scourge would go free and kill everybody

lore-wise you've assumed to of killed every raid boss since release saving the planet countless times, it'd be awful if you were still treated as a shitmuncher after killing multiple gods

day9 is bad and a savescummer

Would be a lot more fun to watch him if he didn't savescum and actually learned to play better

I thought illidan never died, he was just imprisoned by maiev after the fight at BT.

Or did she just imprison his corpse? If so for what purpose? Why not cremate it or otherwise dispose of it?

They're still gods, user. We fought something a Titan was needed to weaken.

Hell, even Ragnaros could be considered a god, and he's even first tier.

Time travel and alt timelines are never a good idea in stories, ever.

I mean sure. But to give an entire continent on the scale of Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms is fucking PUSHING IT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Eyir hangs out in the Halls of Valor now with Odyn.

One of the canon strongest fucks on Azeroth.

Guess who gets out of his cage in 7.1

Something to do with him needing Illidans body to summon sargeras or some other bullshit, i'm not too sure

ehh, I prefer powering through the game since he's only doing one campaign per fucking day per week
why does he still stream so little after quitting the job?
at least he admitted to enjoying Hearthstone less

I can't speak for every oldfag but I know many were very disgusted with the way the lore was handled by the end of TBC. Personally I think every x-pac after Wrath should be within the caverns of time as an alternate universe.

The old games aren't really considered cannon anymore by Blizzard, just loosely affiliated with the story which has been bastardized terribly. I really miss the custom games..

>Nor would I obey that command even if you were!

We literally went into the halls of valor and made them all our bitch

On top of that, Eyir clearly doesn't stay in the halls of valor or we wouldn't have seen Sylvannas nearly BDSM her in the first place

Also I really miss the cutsom games in WC3.*

(Apologies, it's late and english is not my first language.)

Say what you want, Pandaria is beautiful.

Not as beautiful as Cantha in GW: Factions but then again no game will ever be.

>Illidan was the chosen one all along!
I can get behind him being a good guy that did bad things to meet his goal or whatever, but this just pissed me off.

They should've made it an eastern-based faction of humans like in Cantha.

Why does "Canon" even matter. None of this is real.

How is Varian a mary sue? He has gotten his shit rocked too many times including dying to be a mary sue. He was just a hot head who could fight pretty well.

You could make a better case for Anduin being a mary sue with his whole "Chosen by the light and limitless potential that dwarfs even Velen".

I think illidan mentions during the DH leveling Zone that we and him has a demon soul, and we can't truly die

he led armies all around the world and somehow the humans back in Westfall, Elwynn, Duskwood, Redridge, and even Stormwind haven't revolted yet because of terrible conditions that war would bring

You could say the same thing about literally every racial leader then.

"I am Lo'gosh the ghost wolf!"

Most of the retarded stuff about him is contained within Knaak and Metzens fanfiction novels.

Turn back all ye who savours the last vestiages of his sanity, mention not Rhonin Redhair, Green jesus and Med'an.

we didnt see it coming this whole time...

Yes but I wish they would've written it better, Legion is doing the right thing.

>Damn it, Umami. As your future chef, I order you to...

>son of Garona and Medivh
>founder of the New Council of Tirisfal, a former Guardian of Tirisfal, wielder of Atiesh
>wields shamanistic powers and arcane magic
>half orc half draenai half human half Vanilla Ice Cream Sundae with Whipped Cream
>defeated Old Gods and Cho'Gall before you

I love how the list of Tirisfal Guardians is just
>Medivh, the Last Guardian
then
>Med'an

Another forgotten Mary Sue is Rhonin, the guy that led the Kirin Tor, and was supposed to be a major figure but literally no one recognized him and they cleaned him up later with a heroic sacrifice

I actually like world quests/artifact grind/rep grinds
it makes you play the game again not just sit at your garrison and queue for things

Maybe I'm alone in this, but Pandaria is easily my favorite continent, and the content I like leveling through the most. For some stupid reason though, it's also the one you get quickest throug, reaching 90 in the first fucking zone.

Correct

>Interesting. Like me, you have an immortal demon soul.

>You cannot truly die. Instead, your soul will make its way to the Twisting Nether. There, you will wait until you can find a suitable body to inhabit.

>Now get back into your corpse while there is still time and bring me the keystone!

To be fair, I think that bit of dialog can be missed, it probably only happens if you choose to sacrifice yourself in that one quest.

He even looks like a fucking anime character

I sort of wish there was an option to be a footman as well, but post Cata- every class has been shoehorned into a specific archtype, that MAYBE if you're lucky changes slightly depending on whether you're a human or elf or not.

I don't want to be fucking Fantasy Shepard, where you can be whatever you want, so long as you are one of these three things!

>Rhonin Redhair with his perfect half elf baby twins, elven wife, his redhair which will you will be repeatedly be reminded about every second sentance.

Lets not forgot his raptor army or the time he traveled back in time 10,000 years and taught Illidan about magic.

What was even the reasoning behind that? if there was no lich king it would have went down exactly the same as warcraft 3, the scourge would be a mess with factions springing up everywhere, you'd have Lich king loyalists, splinter groups with their own ambitions and then dreadlords in the mix trying to take control.

The scourge would be in chaos.

Even Order Halls are legit, I at least get to see other players running around, or if I don't even feel like going back I can just log out, do my stuff on my phone, and log back in.

The story is also really good, it gets Alliance lapdogs assblasted about the Horde leaving them to die on the Broken Shore.

Val'Sharah and the DH starting zone felt like a WC3 campaign

If Narthalas, The Highmountain Tauren and Drogbar, and Valajar alliances play a role in the rest of the expansion's story it will be GOAT tier

Artifact grind was one of the reasons I stopped playing.
I can't stand being pigeon-holed into one spec. and one class, even after getting 150-200% boosts.

Warden will be the next prestige class, this expac has been lampshading them all over the place.

>Get a good group for +7 mythic
>3 chest it
>"Hey guys want to try +10? 3rd affix is tyrannical so only bosses are significantly harder"
>"We can probably still get 2 chests with this group"
>Get to boss
>200m health
>Unavoidable mechanics dealing 1m damage

Val'sharah was horrible

And I'm so salty they removed baine from highmountain but still forced us to deal with the tyrande/malfurion soap opera

Navarogg will hopefully play a bigger role than just Neltharion's Lair, I think he's the most based NPC that you help, Highmountain was a really cool zone I wish more people liked it.

Like any other modern franchise without dedicated and talented writers, everything is canon until something new changes the story.

Just deterrence behind the mobs and face your barrage back the way you came.

>Have you lost your mind, Arthas?!

>Another Elf only class

God I hope not, Wardens are sweet but I feel like that would turn Elves into the next Orcs and have 2 expansions only about them.

Your young prince will find only death in the cold north...

>Deterrence

;_;

I want it back

...

Nah, it will be female only, supported by an excuse along the lines of "we're trying to rebuild our order after Legion so we started accepting other races."

Will someone please post the picture of drawing of the guy with his hand on his chin.

I keep hearing how cool it was. It felt really boring to me although the quests to give quests to kobolds was funny.

My favorite zones were val'shara because it was pretty and reminded me of darkshore/ashenvale and stormheim because of the physical layout of moving up through the mountains to get out of the crash zone.

Why do people find the WoW lore so abhorrent? The stories before them weren't exactly masterpieces. I can't be the only one enjoying the content in the cutscenes and following Sylvanas storyline and all that. Apart from Illidan being evil for no reason in TBC what have they done wrong?

>Class
There isn't enough there to make an entire class out of especially considering 1/2 of WC3 Warden's abilities are taken by existing classes in Blink and Fan of Knives.
It's gonna be a new spec for sure. Like Outlaw without replacing an existing one. Pretty sure Blizz said they were only doing specs and not classes now too.
My guess its going to be Demon Hunter's third spec given the evolution of the Demon Hunter/ Warden relationship

It could also be Rogues or Warriors.

Some people don't like bleach, dbz and naruto.

The grappling hook made Stormheim legit, Highmountain isn't the best ground-mounted terrain so once actual flying comes out it'll be a cooler zone.

Using Emerald Winds and a glider is great for getting around the zone.

I'd play the shit out of a Warrior Warden if I get one of those circle blades.

>The stories before them weren't exactly masterpieces
They were shielded by the RTS gameplay back then, you write a lot of the story and conflict yourself in those games

We need more tank/heal specs/classes
>Warlocks still can't tank
>Warlocks still can't heal
>Shamans still can't tank

That would be pretty cool, actually. Maybe Warden will finally be a good ST spec for DH.

>I can't be the only one enjoying the content in the cutscenes

haha

yeah that hackneyed dialogue and cheap voice acting is really enjoyable, especially when I compare it to what Blizzard used to be capable of!

Everything wod related, its a personal thing I hate alternative universe bullshit

>How did Gorehowl end up in Karazhan?

>I dunno kek

Lore was retarded until the complaints stacked up so high they fixed it in WotLK.

>There isn't enough there to make an entire class out of especially considering 1/2 of WC3 Demon Hunter's abilities are taken by existing classes in Mana Burn and Metamorphosis.

no you don't. You get a very very specific story obejctive and are then rewarded with a cutscene with dialogue.

The story is not good. I like Legion, but don't be stupid. The story is god damn awful.

you say that as though the warcraft dialogue was some masterpiece. It wasn't. It's always been cheesy.

>You are not my chef yet, boyardee

this the conflict should have been about brutal war, politics, and conflict of species and culture, not about demon lord insect invasions occurring every year

I'm still mad about that. WoD could have easily explained it, but fucking no.

DH doesn't even have good Evasion, what the fuck Blizz?

Please

No I say that as though it wasn't complete dogshit before and was enjoyable, but now it's not.

>It's always been cheesy.

Current WoW dialogue isn't just cheesy, it's bad. Bad bad bad bad bad.

>You get a very very specific story obejctive and are then rewarded with a cutscene with dialogue.
Literally
>You get a beginning and an ending
The gameplay is the journey, they give you the framework and then you write how the character defeats the challenge in front of him

Doesn't bother me. I love the human kick animation and sound.

Return the blade....

then WoW is no different

>Blades of the Fallen Prince

Go kill yourself. Before you do that, go play ROC and TFT and see if this is in any way comparable (hint: it isn't).

Anyone?

Arthas should not have died so soon, now the Warcraft lore will stagnate until the Old Gods come in at least 30-50 years and the final battle begins,

>People still think the Burning Legion is important and that Sargeras is not just a whinny asshole

>And you can experience all that on a new character.
No you can't

Cata zones != Classic zones.

Unholy if you want to DPS, and Blood for Tanking, Frost is worthless despite having the best lore-wise Artifact weapon

but in the greater threat there's always focus on the characters and the tension you talk about. The constant rivalry and splitting up of the horde and alliance has all of that, and then the characters from wc3 get continued storylines. Within the alliance itself I agree there's way too little happening, but the horde has plenty.

>HURRRR MUH TFT DURRRRRRR HURRR MUH NOSTALGIA URRRRRRFFFFFF DURRRRRR

this is you right now btw

>collect 8 bear heads
>kick 5 carp into the river
>...
>come savior, it's time for me to tell you what to do again
>No don't get up, just sit back and enjoy your guided tour of Azeroth

Yes, you really are the author of your own destiny in WoW...

What? I took me 4 zones to get to 90 without any type of boosts.

youtube.com/watch?v=1YtgrIrRLi0

Y'all niggas need justice

You're being biased, cherry picking and forgetting that for every not-my-king-yet moment there was shit like the blademaster demon worshipper.

lol drones be butthurt

Illidan being retconned into the second coming of elf jesus is the dumbest fucking shit I swear to god

>rrrr i have no argument so i have to shitpost

WoW is different because the perspective on the events is completely different. They need a lot more story present to fill in the blanks between because the story is constantly beginning and ending. And they fucking suck at writing.

Sometimes you just need gear.

did you just stop playing after vanilla or something? For every expansion you've gotten more and more involved in the story and become more and more an important figure in the center of the big happenings.

I don't know if you realise how retarded you are now, pointing out the mechanics of every game ever and then trying to compare them to the story.

Like. That's super retarded, dude.

wow epic sick writing dude truly fucking epic i vape respectfully in your direction good sir

Fap material, she only when full dyke after Illy killed her girlfriend.

I'm on your side about them being biased, but holy shit stop being a fucking faggot.

He got hit so hard by Murmur's Sonic Boom, he went home and became a family man.

How can you argue fallout 3 isn't canon?
Literally only Obsidian dick suckers say it isn't. New Vegas is best 3D Fallout

>Join a BRF Mythic group because I'm interested in the shoulders from Oregorger and the 2H Mace from Blackhand
>Group has a Priest
>Figure this'll go fine because there's actually an MC in the group
>Get to Blast Furnace
>Get to the part where you need to MC a Security Guard
>Never happens
>World's slowest wipe
>The entire time the group's doing a grand total of nothing to the Primal Elementalists there's someone bitching that we need to kill the Slag Elementals and that we're dumbasses
>It's the Priest

I can't fucking imagine what pugging current content must be like

>For every expansion you've gotten more and more involved in the story and become more and more an important figure in the center of the big happenings.

And? You're just helping my argument even more.

Is my ganking of countless noobs at Tauren Mill in pre-battlegrounds WoW also part of the canon? I want it to be.

You don't know what you're talking about do you?

Uther was pretty on point though.

your argument was that you created the story for yourself. My response to that was that just as in WoW you are just execute a very specific objective with all the story determined for you, leaving no room to "write your own story" as you put it. And WoW is the same in terms of the main story content.

A raid group taking down Illidan is legitimately cannon

That is legit the worst thing you could have said when your post is fucking nonsense.

you're being a gigantic faggot and you should stop posting.

So was that blademaster though.

And last I checked the demon invasions of the third war didn't affect the blackrock much.

>A raid group is cannon

How the hell does the lore explain that shit? is there any lore 'raid' characters?

Orcs like war, fighting, and hardship, Trolls literally would never notice a difference unless they were losing horribly and even then their solution would be to turn it up to eleven as evidenced by the Ice trolls in Northrend, Tauren, Goblins would only notice if it directly impacted their sales to the Orcs, The undead thrive off of it, Panda country is literally not involved.

Arthas just made a joke of them.

yeah

>3D Fallouts and 2D Fallouts

>your argument was that you created the story for yourself.

No, it was literally the OPPOSITE of that. Are you unable to read?

Nonono, he used a biiiig word like "rhetoric" which makes this whole interaction seem intelligently written, also making it leagues ahead of something like this.

A friend of mine spent an entire afternoon pugging the first boss of Emerald Nightmare. He wiped over ten or fifteen times on the fight. On Normal mode.

That fight is one of the easiest in the game. All you do is drop a debuff that leaves a slime pool off on the edge, move away when the boss breathes, and then dodge bugs and slime that moves in to the boss during a rest period.

>one of the "raid group" is fighting Illidan with a blade of Azzinoth

WHAT THE FUCK, SO IS GRINDING RAIDS CANNON TOO?

>You posted the level where Uther does jackshit while a bunch of villagers get sacrificed. Uther is an incompetent asshole.
It was kinda funny, my uther bugged out on that map and he went and wrecked the orc base.

I think it was because I activated a cutscene by going up by hidden murlocs while uther was in a fight or something.

Was fun to watch the orcs helplessly try to bring him down, but since he's immortal 45 seconds a minute that ain't happening.

>yeah I'm totally a random adventurer who heard there was this almighty, world destroying god buried under this desert and I figured "wow, that's just the gig for a mercenary lootwhore like me!"

Get fucked

Not really any are mentioned, aside from joke characters like what posted. There is, however, several times a boss has been officially downed by a random group of nobodies. C'thun being one.

I'm pretty certain there's dialogue in-game mentioning how badly Tarren Mill's conflicts with Southshore were too.

Pic for proof

am I being baited here? Let me quote your post in full:
>They were shielded by the RTS gameplay back then, you write a lot of the story and conflict yourself in those games

the blind gnome personelly killed iliidan

They also mention aggro and that one of there members "Johnny Awesome" (previously seen in Hillisbrad) is AFK

You think "rhetoric" is a big word? lol @ you

Don't think too hard about it. Johnny Awesome is amongst them. Some of the dialogue talks about how they got world first, and how they want the warglaives to drop.

thanks you too

That's not my post at all you asinine fuck. Your argument breaks down anyway because you've offered no evidence to counter his claim.

What?

>ranged DPS
>fun

Uhhh... sorry man, none are fun anymore. Worst part is, all the most boring specs to play (Fire, MM) are also the strongest.

oh you're the 8bearhead guy, well as I said the story is still presented in cutscenes between activities, instead of doing the busywork of heroes as an entire army you're one dude, the story that's there is still presented in the same way. We're talking the story related to the main characters btw. Yes of course a random guy asking you to do something for you is not the same.

>get into a party for mythic neltharion
>tank says he's still learning
>well okay
>everyone has to learn the encounter first so I'll stick around as healer
>tfw he's literally there to learn how to tank
>not just learn the encounter
>how to tank and use his CDs as warrior

Literally had to tell him face the mobs away from the group because they have huge cleave and he only did it 30% of the time. And since the tank didn't face them away the DPS also stood IN FRONT of the mobs with cleave.

They didn't kill adds on worm either so worm reached 200% damage boost and we wiped first try. Only when you tell them to kill adds will they kill them. Still finished the run but jesus christ.

>ITT:

We're not the same person
>For every expansion you've gotten more and more involved in the story and become more and more an important figure in the center of the big happenings
user, think about this from a story writer and player experience perspective

You have a main character in your story that can't have any personality nor drive the story, and you need to constantly feed to that character multiple other storylines and characters constantly

That is not exactly a platform that average/bad writing can flourish in

Blizzard ended there.

>They also mention aggro
>Some of the dialogue talks about how they got world first, and how they want the warglaives to drop.
I don't remember this...

Also, I actually really liked this part of the quest, I thought it was pretty fun

Daily reminder that you are casual trash undeserving of being in a heroic dungeon if you didn't wipe the raid

Sounds like TBC and Cata again. Only a few dungeons in wrath were remotely challenging, and after cata they were a joke.

I don't know how to express it in any other way other than that in the RTS you're doing busywork for the hero by ordering around armies so you can watch the next cutscene. In the MMO you're doing busywork for the hero by controlling one character in a scenario with other players/npcs so you can advance to the next cutcene. If we're talking about the main storyline here then it's not all too different.

>Blizzard keeps making RNG heavy classes/specs
>people hate them because of the absolutely massive disparity between pulls through no action on the players' parts
>people hate them because they just fucking feel awful to play the proc lottery
>people tell Blizzard this
>every single day
>Blizzard just keeps making them every expansion

>Mfw I saved Johnny Awesome for last

>that hozen swear-off with Ooka Dooker

>Wipe the raid
>They respawn one by one anyway

>you're doing busywork for the hero by ordering around armies so you can watch the next cutscene
You are -the- hero, personality, relationships, factions, all, and there's a much smaller demand for gameplay time to fill in

I don't count wow as part of warcraft, it's just blizzards way of fucking over fans.

I'm leveling through the Illidari strand right now and I swear to god Elmo voices the imps now
also holy shit boomkin a best

They are a multimillion dollar company yet they cant hire a writer.

Everything is so pointless and trivial, characters change completely around, events are forgotten or happen without any buildup, thing snap back to the status quo constantly shit should happen never happens, shit that should never happen happens constantly, constant new characters hog the limelight then get forgotten, buildup is wasted on cringy "epic" moments and cheesy oneliners etc.

Its a complete shitshow without any vision or direction, just making shit up as they go. Its like the Adventure Time of vidya

I seriously hope Wc4 gets a full reboot and all the retarded shit gets cut out and the good elements preserved and presented well.

>tfw people can't avoid boss mechanics
>needed 680k healing for the whole fight
>hunter needed 2.6 mil
>monk needed 10 mil vs DK's 4 mil

>"Tasty treats for me to eats"
>Demon Hunters have to use their mobility to chase an imp through Dalaran
>Daglop AKA best boy
Legion imps are best imps

They took out a lot of rng for pallies, but are trying to put it back in now. There needs to be a middle ground.

I could hit 700k dps for a few mins of AOE if I got lucky in HFC, but most of the time it was much lower.

>tfw guardian druid cant hold aggro properly
it's fine in 5 mans, but raids? lol

Outlaw in mythic+, clearing trash is awful. Not to mention that blizzard nerfed my rng buffs.

>tfw doing 50% healing before I die
>having to blow all cooldowns in first phase of a fight to make up for the other shitty healers
>priest died multiple times during fight and got battle rezzed only to die again

IM HAVING SO MUCH FUN

I'm fucking struggling with the spider in EN when she does dark storm.

>They are a multimillion dollar company yet they cant hire a writer.
I think they have writers that make them earn money.
I don't like the mismatched superhero anime that warcraft has become, but I think a lot of people do.

So you're saying the story is more concentrated? I thought what you said was that there was more room in the RTS to write your own story? I don't understand who's who anymore in this discussion so it's better to just stop I think.

I think the way mythic keys work is retarded. People leave immediately after 1-2 wipes and it punishes only the guy that used his keystone by depleting it, as if it's his fault while the leavers suffer no punishment.

youtube.com/watch?v=-kfr3602ANI

Any competent writer could deliver that and make it coherent so the nerds can aruge it forever.

youtube.com/watch?v=n4TyqYsC26g

The Resto Druid in my old Wrath guild would constantly post recount numbers of healing taken and make the DPS who took a lot feel bad. I missed that so much, I tried to point it out in my new guild but no one cared and the DPS continued to masturbate over who got the biggest damage numbers - even though they're all within 20% of each other.

>pug healer barely outdoes the tank

I'm so glad I pug with another healer.

>overpowered shit

end game SWG was killing fucking criminals on endor, or are you referring to post NGE expansion bosses?

>Its a complete shitshow without any vision or direction
Metzen has retired now, so something better might happen. This being a guy that forgot the backstory he wrote himself behind the entire game's setting and had to retcon himself. It's no wonder the story is a mess.

Our old main restro druid in my TBC - wrath guild used to do that too. We would have a middle aged Russian man just droning on and on about how horrible we were and shaming everyone who fucked up while we recuperated from wipes. He went on minute long bants about our retarded flame elemental tanks from Illidan being best friends with them.

I miss you, Puka.

What you consider competent coherent writing may not be what the vast majority prefers though

He hasn't been involved for year.
There's no dramatic change coming out of his retirement.

metzen wasn't super involved in the last 3 years
his corruption has spread to 3 other underlings that have been moving the WoW storyline along since MoP
WoW is fucking dead mate, and so is fucking Warcraft IV if that comes out

Cause its not a dilemma, casuals would not stop liking it except others could enjoy it more.

The problem is that they are heavily involved in this nu-blizz lore. They are hardcore into it.
They like it.
They have a different preference.

Why does Blizzard get a free pass on laziness that Bethesda gets shit for?

>Garbage tier writing
>recycled models and assets
>advertisements for cut features on the fucking game boxes

N O CO M P E T I T I O N
O

Even then they could have handled it way better. Like bringing back illybeans. We could have had a storyline about him being somehow involved in the last raid of WoD, like players recovering his soulstone as trash "an ominous shadow is bound into it" . Then have him being an operator as fuck anti-hero over an expansion pack, slowly coming to terms with his insanity and realizing going full demon isnt a good idea and becoming a more nuanced anti-hero. Still very much not a good guy but doing shit that needs to be done. Then close the expansion pack with him reconciling with his brother, finding his humanity(nightelfity) again, he revokes his "Betrayer" tile, then illybeans promies he is not going to try and fuck his wife anymore than they share an awkward hug and Illidan is doing to do backflips on fire killing demons in the nether or whatever.

Instead of this or anything even remotely sensible we had naaru in supplementary media just declaring illybeans is the bestestest Chosen One of the light ever, he is going to lead the army of the light and we were basically teh dumdums for fighting him, essentially backtracking the entirety of BC and never mind Xi'ri the naaru leading the assault on BC. The new illybeans we get is essentially a new character retconned back in, sharing nothing with the previous one except a name, visual design and a desire to fuck Tyrande,

Dance Studio....

...

All the players in EVE are not normal people, they're a special breed of space cloned

Unfortunately the game gets more attention by being stupidly over the top. They want people to be interested in it and every person raging about the stupidity that goes on with dinduidan is one more person talking in public about the game.

You are not suppose to pug +s.

I miss my old wrath guild a lot. It sucks we started to lose good players and couldn't find other people to fill in.

We had a good 10 man core too, but for some reason the higher up just wanted to disband the entire thing for some fucked up reason.

The lore may be fucked but you honestly don't think this is entertaining?
youtu.be/rTtSlQfSsQY

Knowing Blizzard there will be zero ramifications for Genn's work and Sylvanas is going to go on some revenge adventure.
It can look interesting on the surface but it's garbage as fuck behind the scenes.
Why not make both sides interesting?

WoW ruined Warcraft.
The business model requiring them to shit out new scripts regularly to satiate the subscribers no matter if the quality held up or not, really had a severe negative effect on the lore and the world in the long term.

Fuck. If it just wasn't for WoW we would have likely have gotten Warcraft 4 already anyway. But the dreams of Warcraft 4 are fucking dead anyway, since such a game wouldn't even be a continuation of Warcraft 3 even if they were to make one at this point. Because of WoW, and because of how that trash has to be recognized as canon.

There is nothing with consistently written over the top, in fact there are entire volumes of works about stuff beibg over the top (Exalted, Gurren Lagann, Comicbooks, live metal shows etc.)
But there is literally NOTHING stopping them from making illidan be coldsteel and teleport behind demons, in fact, thats fucking what every fanboy ever wants. Not suddenly declare him space jesus without any leadup, especially in a book. Causal McTimmy and Dudebro68 doesnt read fucking books and they will be just confused as fuck when holy illidant eventually shows up.

Who was even the target audience of that drivel? Lorefags got mad, edgefags got mad, and casualfags will get mad.

Greymane is a fucking legend.

Cataclysm, Pandaria and Draenor were all non-canon.

Everything not directly related to fighting the Burning Legion sucks and is not canon.

WoWs writing quality had nothing to do with the genre if anything it gave them more chances to write a decent setting because they arent tied down to a single story but they kept wasting huge opportunities and make huge coputs jsut because they didnt think things over.

I have a sudden urge to play WC3

I still haven't bought Legion, so I don't want to "spoil" myself on other cinematics, but I did do the intro quests and saw the opening cinematic. Why the fuck did they casually kill Vol'jin and Wyrnn? At least Wrynn went out like a hero, but man I'm fucking assmad they wrote out Vol'jin like a bitch. And it's beyond fucking nonsensical to make that cunt Sylvanas the warchief, especially after the valkyr bullshit. I don't care about that the "spirits" said to give it to her, give it Baine or maybe that literally who Belf leader who apparently was relevant in MoP.

This is really cringey. Here actually refers their child as 'son' and 'daughter'. It's like an animu.

do it faggot

>He doesn`t know about Helya

I'm bad at it though

Was talking with a friend of mine about the potential sales a Warcraft 4 would drive. To compare with another title to give us some guessing room, SC2 sold like 4.5 million units in its first month or something along those lines. Given that WoW has had a peak total of 12 million subscribers, a vast majority of those people were and probably still are, regardless of their subscription status currently, fans of the Warcraft series. Additionally, Overwatch sold 10 million~ units in its first month. Any Blizzard game released is basically a goldmine for them. I was thinking that WC4, if they decided to make it (and I believe in enough time they will) will net them some serious cash. At least that's what my friend and I told ourselves in an effort to believe that it may one day come.

>Death Knight
>my entire campaign is just me wandering around resurrecting people
>I will do literally anything for artifact power

I mean

>muh spirits
>the forsaken were admitted in the horde solely on the advice of the Earthen Ring because Magathas diplomatic fuckery was retconned out
>forsaken try to genocide humans and reignite the war
>in return humans eventually capture orgrimmar
>spirits now tell sylvanas makes a good warchief

maybe its time to stop listening to them

rts is "niche" though
activision will only tolerate the opposite of that

>"Okay death knight we're going to resurrect some dead king. The Alliance aren't going to be happy about this."
>"Okay we're going to resurrect some dead orc. The Horde aren't going to be happy about this."
>"Okay we're going to resurrect some old raid boss. I don't think I need to tell you, but nobody will be happy with this."

I enjoyed it.

I'll never understand this argument
>Kil Aspects/Old Gods/Titans/etc

Oh youre just a little unknown adventurer still!

Fuck off

Why? The thing is, I agree Syl being Warchief is stupid. But the other options?

>The Elf Guy
Almost betrayed the Horde. Serves his race first, which is not the point of a Warchief. It's why Garrosh was a bad leader, and why Sylvanas is a bad leader. All in all he's the same as Sylvanas in may respects, just not an edgelord
>Baine
Is essentially a kid and nobody would support that. Mostly because he hasn't really got the experience everyone else has.
>Saurfang
Is a better soldier than he is a leader, and he's old.
>Etrigg
Old, and an advisor not a leader.

I mean I can't think of any other examples. But essentially ALL the fucking choices are terrible and Thrall should just come back. At least he'd grow his hair back out.

>Lets go and attack our allies and the person whom Mograine owes a huge debt to, just to forcibly try and bring back a man who spent his entire life fighting against the undead

It was at that moment I realised Mograine and the Ebon Blade sucked ass, and Mograine had devolved into another edgelord.

>band of adventurers take down a raid boss with a help of an army and several named NPCs

Also, there is a huge difference between being just a really strong adventurer and a constant chosen one who flipflops between taking orders from racial leaders and dragon aspects and eating shit and hauling lumber in quests.

>I mean I can't think of any other examples
So, are we all agreed that Vol'Jin was the best choice for warchief?

They made SC2 though after being acquired by Activision. Warcraft as a series has more fans and would lead to more money than SC2 brought in. It's only logical.

Nope. Vol'jin, first of all, started half the fucking mess in Cata with Garrosh by being a complete moron. He also sat back and did almost nothing while his men did all the work in WoD.

So while I can't say he's a bad Warchief, he's hardly as good as Thrall was. Or hell, he was hardly as good as Garrosh was. For all of his faults at least Garrosh was making progress.

To be fair, I guess, he didn't do anything. And got killed off because nobody likes Vol'jin. He's generic.

By sheer virtue of doing literally nothing beforehand to taint his reputation or bolster it, yes.

The Horde is a fucking mess.

>old raid boss?
Who?

They make billions a year and they can't hire some decent writers? And on top of that they include critical story moments in books and comic books you have to pay extra for?

Under every possible metric Saurfang should have been the Warchief.

>the perfect archetype of the orc warrior, fearless and accomplished
>also tasted defeat and wizened by age, knows he cant always win
>fully accepts the responsibilty for his warcrimes and repents for them whole also not being a whiny emo bitch
>already commanded armies, even alliance ones as part of the Might of Kalimdor
>already High Overlord, literally a step down below Warchief
>even the alliance respects him
>beloved in lore
>beloved by players

I was saying that before they made Garrosh warchief. And I will never not be mad at Cairne's death.

>the perfect archetype of the orc warrior, fearless and accomplished
Which makes him a good soldier
>also tasted defeat and wizened by age, knows he cant always win
And he's also old, and again, part of the reason Garrosh was chosen was because he was young and the younger generations of Orcs could look up to him. He was also the son of a legend on top of that.
>fully accepts the responsibilty for his warcrimes and repents for them whole also not being a whiny emo bitch
So he'd basically be Thrall 2. Which is the opposite of what the writers seemed to want.
>already commanded armies, even alliance ones as part of the Might of Kalimdor
Though to be fair he wasn't doing much tactical planning. He was just rallying them.
>already High Overlord, literally a step down below Warchief
Which begs the question of who would replace him
>even the alliance respects him
What?
>beloved by players
He's a meme. Ask 10 people about Saurfang and I bet 8 can't actually tell you who he is or what he's done. But all 10 can tell you a Saurfang joke.

Truly the only suitable Warchief would be the campfire.

Why? Cairne was almost a non entity.

I will sometimes crack open my old warcraft RPG books and read through all the good, pre-retconed lore and then go dream adventures again.

Gallywix. He wouldn't want to get into pointless fights because it would waste jewgold and he'd make the Horde great again.

>What

> I bet 8 can't actually tell you who he is or what he's done.

The pottery.

He was one of the oldest supporters of the Horde, wasn't a warmongering piece of shit like most leaders, and he was respected by the Alliance.

Dude like 3 elves and 1 human respected him. Hardly "the alliance"

Where the fuck is Gallywix during Legion anyway?

What server? same thing happened to me near the end of wrath,

Why is "respected by the Alliance" a positive thing, considering Warcraft will always regress into the Horde and Alliance murdering each other. And weirdly enough nearly everyone bitches when you get people like Anduin and Thrall who want peace.

>will always regress
i wish

Cause he is an actual soldier who has seen war again and again, lost a son to it and wants peace now, a believeable character. Not a raging, hypocritical, badly written peacenik like thrall and anduin.

It does though. In every expansion, truce or ceasfire be damned, they find a way to take pot shots and murder each other. Legion is no different thanks to Gen "I've got a good idea" Greymane and Sylvanas "What could possibly go wrong?" Windrunner.

Hold on, how does this work? Does Warcraft really have a canon hell for Sylvannas' soul to be damned to? If so, who runs it?

>It was at that moment I realised Mograine and the Ebon Blade sucked ass, and Mograine had devolved into another edgelord.
Pretty much this.

I had a difficult time trying not to reflexively roll my eyes at each step.

>Thrall has seen war, and led war
>Thrall lost a brother to the war, and to corruption
>Now Thrall wants peace

Uh. Okay. Vastly different.

>Anduin loses a father to war, and experiences the tragedies that take place on MoP first hand
>He even learns that he can't just be a pacifist all the time, thanks to the dickhead lizard guys

Hm. Besides Thrall only became an issue after he gave the mantle away and became the centre of all attention. What with all that elemental chosen bullshit.

The Horde v Alliance shit, while definitely the cornerstone of the franchise, doesn't really make sense for most expacs. Like it 100% made sense in Wrath, because of the Wrathgate faggotry, which is why I actually liked those shit fights that most people hated (faction champs and gunship). But why focus on petty Horde v Alliance shit instead of banding together to fight a common enemy.

He was against it the entire time but pretty much had to do it considering the fucking Lich King AND his right hand man (you) told him to. Morgraine's hands were tied.

Isn't that fun storytelling though instead of everyone just teaming up with no problems?

read the leader short story

99% of the time its the horde attacking and the alliance reacting to it then decrying it as some kind of horrible injustice it got boring as fuck around mid BC

they recently defined 'hell' as the 'void' and sylvanas apparently hated it

they've used the word "hell" since warcraft 2 though

Yes. I prefer war to peace. I'm just saying.

That's because the writers have tons of options and don't fucking use them. It's annoying.

Then Mograine, whose character includes "stubborn" and "never backing down" is a pussy and a shell of his former self. He should have bitch slapped you right across the face. And remember he straight up does not care (or claims not to care) about Bolvar... for all of five fucking seconds until he slobbers over that fire-ice dick. It's horrible writing.

It's fun the first few times but them trying to kill each other while the FUCKING BURNING LEGION IS AT THEIR GODDAMNED DOORSTEP is retarded. They can bury the hatchet for five fucking minutes.

>tummy censored
What the fuck?

>Why do people find the WoW lore so abhorrent?
It's a blatant cash cow. They scoured wc3 for any interesting characters and shamelessly turned all of them into xpac raid bosses.

>They can bury the hatchet for five fucking minutes.
Which is literally what they did do in wc3.

I hope we get to the point where the population of Azeroth essentially becomes like the Orcs from Draenor. The land is dying and all that. We have to find a new planet to live on.

I know your pain. I'm fucking terrible at RTS games. Would love to play through WC3 but I don't know if I could, especially because of the outdated mechanics of it all.

gay, I hope the orcs rampage back to eastern kingdoms and deal the southron humans a deathblow

>outdated mechanics
wat

just take it slow, play on normal, build your income, get upgrades, build units, explore, build units, kill

Thats not even the problem. No one really mind a named character killed off as a conclusion of a statisfying storyline. They are just too lazy to actually build up chartacters and develop storylines so everything is an asspull with a named cherry on the top. Asspulls piling on asspuls flavored by retcons.

Literally every single memorably stroyline was over by wotlk. Can you name anything good or memorable after cata? Every single attempt to introduce a new major character was cringeworthy shit, like Wrathion. No wonder the most popular characters were minor quest NPCs like Thisalee Crow and the Earhen Ring dudes you quested with in three zones. And then they randomly got killed off in a 5man they had no business to be in a blink or miss moment.

>Would love to play through WC3 but I don't know if I could
The campaign is honestly pretty easy for the most part, and it does a great job of introducing the RTS mechanics nice and gradually.

The only thing I really struggled with was the final mission in the Undead FT campaign: where you have to take on two enemies simultaneously despite starting from scratch and them having full bases already. Nothing else prior to that was all that difficult imho.

>He fell for the Outmeme
>He fell for the Deathmeme
>He fell for the Demomeme

My sides.

>Can you name anything good or memorable after cata?
...

not really, no.

Bolvar is mindcontrolling the DKs.

>I can't grow the balls to face enemies in close range combat
Get the fuck out

VASHJ'IR

I used to play as a frost mage. Thanks for another reminder that I did the right thing by quitting.

I wish the druid campaign was a bit more exciting
>Oh no, the emerald nightmare corrupted this stick! let's fix it!

There is a comic out explain exactly what you are wondering. Basically Khadgar was being such an annoying shot it drove AU Gul'dan back to the legion.

>fury that high

I don't believe it, but I want to.

>Destruction Warlock
Have we finally been redeemed?

>literally who
As I was saying...

a typical theme-park mmo is just a terrible medium for telling a story compared to the old RTS games. As soon as they introduced time-travel and alternate universe versions of the same characters the story was comic-book tier completely beyond salvation. the only good story parts of WoW before that were the things people remembered from WC3 like the lich king

>he uses 'meme' in any context whatsoever

>raid never happened
>Ozumat went free
>we never know who the Battlemaiden was
>entire storyline about the Horde wanting a Naval base near SW dropped

It was fizzled

>Can you name anything good or memorable after cata?
Jainas descent into bitter rage (through MoP+Legion).
Khadgar the memelord (mostly WoD, so far he's not done much in Legion).

destruction is boring though

It's shit on single target, but there's only 2 single target fights.

It's been hotfixed

Blizzard say it has but I sincerely doubt it. Of the people in my guild with Legendaries, even ones who got them after they supposedly fix it, all of them have two. The rest of us have none.

Just like the Kingslayers. "nuuuh I can't have them any more, time for someone else to do the job, here take em"

She hit him with one of those arrows it's why she dropped her guard. Genn just happens to be badass enough to walk away from somthing like that

He's demin enough that he would eventually create a new body for himself if the old ine was destroyed. By keeping it well preserved she was able to prevent him from returning

He's pretty badly fucked up afterward and he might not live. Then again when he talks to you in world quests he seems okay so who knows.

>Playing a high CC burst spec.
>Expecting good DPS
Way to be a retard.

>Jainas descent into bitter rage (through MoP+Legion).

Completely retarded example

>commits regicide and patricide, the two most heinous crimes possible to defend the horde from human agression cause MUH PEES
>no one ever calls on her it
>Theramore is getting encroached on by the horde
>people are deserting en masse as they feel Jaina will sell them out
>Jaina runs a campaign discrediting and killing deserters
>no one ever calls her on it
>teleports Varian out of Undercity just as he is about to kill Thrall casue MUH PEES
>no one ever calls her on it
>cries a bit in ICC cause Varian is such a nice guy not killing Saurfang
>guess what, the deserters were right and the horde kills them all with a nuke
>w-w-wha m-uh pees?
>then shes is mad
>then she loves the horde again because her dragon husbando told it

Literally just random flipflopping around

I'll give that Khadgar is a nice NPC but he is no storyline

Luckily for me the requirements were good OR MEMORABLE and people remembered Jaina and Khadgar.

I guess Garrosh through MoP+WoD might count too, people remembered Thrall being a bitch in the fight in Nagrand.

The way they ruined the world by altering it into a much worse version counts as memorable. That's not a good thing.

Can confirm
It only happens if you sacrifice yourself

>Luckily for me the requirements were good OR MEMORABLE and people remembered Jaina and Khadgar.

Are you being willfully obtuse. People only remember these for being heinously bad, thats not something to aim for when writing.

Also, thrall was always a bitch, it just made people realize,

What exactly bad about Khadgar again?

It was weird how they made him relevant again but he was ok overall, and definitely the least retarded thing about WoD's abortion of a story.

>Are you being willfully obtuse.
Indeed I was.

Going back to where I jumped into the conversation though;
>They are just too lazy to actually build up chartacters and develop storylines so everything is an asspull with a named cherry on the top.

They built up Garrosh from TBC, through Wrath and into Cata where he got a bigger role, then into MoP where they inexplicably changed his character from Cata to counter Green Jesus (????????????), and his story ended in WoD. By himself he disproves the idea that they are too lazy to build characters (since they did it twice with him alone). He drove a large portion of the MoP storyline with the Sha, his decisions during the expac had huge impacts on the Horde, Alliance and the Pandaren and continue to have influence on some characters (Jaina).

You could argue that they asspulled his change in character and you'd be right with that, they have a huge problem with changing existing characters to suit their needs (they did the same shit to Thrall at the same time). His MoP->WoD arc was pretty good taken by itself though, him having the pressure to live up to his fathers name and Thrall dumping all that on top of him while the Alliance pressures the Horde, of course something was going to give. It's still discussed whether or not he was justified in his actions and if Thrall is more to blame for being a bitch.

I think he's hilarious honestly, while still managing to come off as a serious character when he needs to. I just kinda wish we could see more of him in combat or something. He usually only shows up to demolish a roadblock or hold a shield up during quests and doesn't actually show off his magical abilities.

I thought questing through most entirely tamed countryside made for a neat change of pace. It also gave the writers an opportunity to write factions and races completely divorced from the decades of established canon, which was a nice change of pace.

>several named NPCs
Not in most cases.

>I just kinda wish we could see more of him in combat or something.
I think that kinda goes against the idea that the player is the combat oriented guy, Khadgar ends up doing more organisational shit most of the time. There are exceptions such as the WoD intro and Kara prequests, and he's supposed to show up in Nighthold when that comes out.

I think they're trying to avoid pulling a Thrall with him.

Yes. No. No. None of them

You've literally never been a cog. You killed a God in Vanilla.

I think because he is the only character who actually manages to have, you know a character. He is easygoing and funny without being a one bit joke character and you know he is backing some serious magical heat.

There is literally no point arguing about anything in warcraft lore. Thats the problem. Everything is an on the spot asspull just floatiting out there, created to enable "epic moments" and conflict is just asspulls colliding into eachother.

Garrosh was essentially 4 character if not more during is """arc""". Any of them could have been an okay character given the slightest amount of forethought or development. They just couldnt decide if they want an emo bitch, a honorabru warrior, a prodigal son or a saturday morning cartoon villain.

>I think they're trying to avoid pulling a Thrall with him.
Yeah. it makes sense. I'm surprised at how well-written Khadgar is compared to everyone else really. He actually manages to have a real personality and not be completely retarded.

That was some other cunt. You were the cog in his batallion.

Khadgar was probably the only one they spent time on in WoD, but the writing in general is better this time around
>class quests actually interesting
>xpac actually has a theme that resonates through each zone
>each zone has its own theme
>characters are generally well written and actually seem like characters instead of generic quest givers
It's like metzen knew he was going to leave when writing Legion so he actually gave a shit this time

>They just couldnt decide if they want an emo bitch, a honorabru warrior, a prodigal son or a saturday morning cartoon villain.
This is where he's two characters. He's in TBC as an emo but Thrall takes him up and puts him with Saurfang who tries to teach him honor. He showed that progression through when he was made warchief and his actions in Cata levelling zones, could be argued that he was trying to live up to his fathers name doing this, maybe as atonement. That is Garrosh v1 and his character arc.

Garrosh v2 is where he goes off the chain for no good reason and claims he's trying to make the Horde better. Turns out he couldn't cope with the pressure that Thrall put him under so got increasingly desperate as his plans in Pandaria were thwarted by the Alliance (mostly Anduin+Jaina).

Blizz fucked up the transition between the two because they didn't want one. They just decided he was going to be a big bad guy now without taking into account his previous character growth. That is really where Blizzards writing is fucking awful, the asspulls you keep bringing up. There is some good stuff there between them but it never gets a chance to shine since someone comes along and fucks it all up by saying LETS HAVE X BE Y NOW, IT'LL BE SUPER COOL!!!!

You fight the chosen warriors of gods, the king and queen of all dragons, and cross dimensional entities in Runescape stop trolling

except for everything to do with illidan
whoever was in charge of that went full retard

>There is some good stuff there between them but it never gets a chance to shine since someone comes along and fucks it all up by saying LETS HAVE X BE Y NOW, IT'LL BE SUPER COOL!!!!
>the writing in general is better this time around
>except for everything to do with illidan

Welp.

Also the devs admitted they fucked up the writing in MoP because the team for each zone didn't talk to each other while making it, so characterization was all over the place for everyone

I don't remember doing this in 2002.
There was Falador... that eastern city... Varrock or something,... wildy...

Oi lads.

Hosting a custom co-op game if anyone's down.

'The Quest'

HOPE YOUR PORTS AND OTHER ANNOYING B.NET THINGS ARE OPEN

lel

Not if you're hosting via a bot.

One slot left lads.

Fem nelf or fem belf?

highborne rapist or rapist who's a magistrix
toughy

How do you do, fellow hunters? I sure love shooting those deer!

What happens to Val'kyr when they die?
Also, how do they die? Are they not spirits already?

Are they still milking that hunter cunt from STV/Nagrand nine expansions in?

>leveling an enh shaman right now

I don't even know what to feel to be honest. The rotation is good and varied without being too much and the spec definitely performs, but I feel like it lacks a lot of the visual and tactile impact my fury warrior has on his abilities. Like, when I hit rampage/execute it feels so good visually and numbers fly fucking everywhere and you get this huge crashing sound, but on my shaman I really only get that on stormstrike. The rest of enh's abilities don't really feel impactful. The numbers are there but visually and audibly they're not.

What the fuck is that weird humming noise that constantly happens on enh by the way?

Bumping my question from hours ago. To answer those who say play melee, I am playing melee and guild from what I see are only really recruiting rDPS and not melee.

Mage is pretty fun from what I've been hearing.

I like to think that Warcraft lore died in WC3, WoW lore is getting really dumb even though they basically had the same writers from WC3 to WoW, like Illidan is going to turn into a holy demon soon in the next 2 patches for Legion. Honestly I dont see WoW lasting another 10 years like they said at blizzcon 2 years ago. Where else can we go besides Nazjatar and Argus? They can maybe pull another Pandaria but we honestly need something new.

I'm still pissed they killed off Captain Taylor. He was my favourite new NPC from Cata onwards.

>WCIV
Dota 2 wouldve been truly epic
>stopped playing dota when dota 2 became popular
And no i didnt take up dota 2

>the fuck is this tiny retard doing now odyn damn it

MM hunter is boring as fuck but consistently tops DPS charts throughout patches, Arcane and Fire mage are the about the same but slightly more fun. I would recommend them as alts. Frost mage is garbage.

Enhancement shaman has engaging enough gameplay and reliable performance, and is in its prime dps-wise. A bit more satisfying than mage in my opinion. Warlock is fun but completely at the bottom of all DPS classes in each spec.

I would seriously hope not. Kaelthas went full retard along with Illidan. Im not too sure about Arthas and what happened there but the damage done during TBC is enough for me to want to retcon WoW and just continue Warcraft 4 from 3 and ignore WoW's events. Do alternate timeline shit, or simply retcon it all together. Not like retconning isnt something Blizzard is shy about doing.

is this accurate?

Is warlock actually fun? I don't care about DPS because I know shit gets fixed.

How do
>upgrade my withered
>fucking kill this Dro motherfucker quicker

>not Chris Metzan

Yes.

>tfw hit 110
>instantly want to play something else

why is DK such suffering?

Demo was fun for me but you'll really be gimping yourself man.

I'm playing Ret right now, can it be worse than Ret?

Thats fine. Why do you want to waste hundres of hours suffering in raids? Do you even have a tightly knit guild? Wasent it gutted during Pands-WOD?

Change the orc into an elf and it will be.

I don't want to be the chosen one to receive this legendary artifact forged in the fire of a dying star, that is also given to the next chosen one standing in line for quest item as myself

It's bullshit

wtf every1 wants to be the chosen one!!

You were warned.

According to that Warlock is the same as ret so it seems fine.

Taria is King Llane's queen and Anduin Lothar's sister.

How how is it possible that Anduin Lothar (white) have a light skinned black sister?

She's not meant to protray a white girl either as evidenced by the shitty comic in the special features of the blu ray where she's even darker than in the movie.

Is cuckcraft canon?

>fury in the fucking ground, baby

>trying to digest a lore written on a napkin by 17 yo kids in highschool

I wish I was baiting

>99th percentile

kek

She was written in for the movie Duncan Jones and Metzen

What part of your sentence disagrees with mine?

VARIAN

Is it worth it to level my 67 shaman up?

>implying Varian won't come back as a demon fel infused holy warrior of just vengeance

Only if horde. Alliance shamans are an abomination.

Yes. She apparently dies sometime in Wrath and sees that because she's been such a fucking cunt that she is going to hell. Valkul or whatever res her and she goes "Oh fuck I don't want to be punished for being a cunt!:

She then makes a new plauge and takes over control of the valkul while now toning in on this new idea that the Forsaken are still actually people who aren't completely cursed and that the Forsaken is an actual nation and that using the plauge and the valkul to being people back from the dead is to further help secure their nation and not because she is making a meat shield to hold off on her enatible death and get sent to hell.

This is also what the entire story in Stormhiem is about. She finds out that there are more valkul and other shit that can keep her immortal and goes looking for it by herself in hopes that she can keep it all a secret from everyone and specially Greymane who wants to kill her.

I'd only be a qt gobby shaman.

No one gave a shit about him till Blizzard finally decided to shoe horn him in to WoD plot in order to set up Legion. Other than that he's done literally nothing since WC1 and is pretty much a literal who.

The entire Emerald Dream, more Bugz, Ogre Continent, Naruu & Void Gods, Void Lords, maybe some massive battle ships. That's all I got.

...

Pally will always be bottom tier. Well, now that Metz left, they might get a bit better. And for pvp too.

Man for the whole duration of WoD the hero (aka the player) felt like the retarded kid that everyone took advantage of.

I could picture Khadgar whispering to maiev "shhh, he is coming, do the part" before going all like "oh my hero! you have come! please bring to me 341 shards and 7 clusters of gold diamonds, only you can do it!".

Just to go back to chilling again.

Human ethnicity doesn't mean anything in Warcraft. All the kingdoms are pseudo medieval Europe and humans just Are. I wouldn't overthink it, Blizzard isn't.

>Arthas
>Anub'arak
>Illidan (even tho he's back now)
>Kael'thas
>Cairne
>Lady Vashj

Who else am forgetting?

Elf ethnicity seems to matter.

Nightborne aren't really considered Night Elves.

Same with High Elves and Blood Elves

I miss Anub

And trolls, and dwarves, and tauren

Having different species is no reason to ignore ethnicity of individual races.
fuckin sjw writers

>Same with High Elves and Blood Elves

Blood Elves are literally just High Elves. They just changed their name after WC3

They were, at this point with all the Fel magic they've been drinking the difference is akin to the green orcs and mag'har.

>how else was the player going to get Ashbringer?
you had to bring him out of retirement in wotlk i believe, so yeah

this is some next level retardation I've never seen before

Shadow Priest

Rest is shit/unfun

>My love of WarCraft lore being stabbed in the heart; the same way that Arthas' father was.

I can't say I agree my dude. Something about whipping lighting and shit around with every hit really makes me feel like a badass.

sjw cunts got bitchy

This is for Mythic Raids.

>dota 2 under nu-blizz TOS

>elemental ahead of enhancement

Something tells me this is bs.

>75th Percentile
>All bosses
Says enough.