Was it really that bad?

No, it's worse than people give it credit for.

Not as bad as Cred Forums likes to claim but it is bad

Start with Bioshock 1 dude.

Why were people excited about the e3 gameplay? It looked scripted as fuck + a typical console shooter.

Depends, are you one of those people who power through bad games just to see how the story ends?

It's just a bland FPS with a story and setting that's interesting but doesn't add up.

Play Bioshock 1 and 2, they're better.

>This game has a shit ton of flaws but Vee only hates it because it popular

Play 1 and 2.

If the shooting mechanics are bad, then why play the game? There are so many first-person shooters out there. There's no reason to play a bad one.

He didn't say a shit ton, that's your opinion. He just said it has flaws, like every game does.

yes

It was boring to play and the story was shit and full of plotholes.
Yes.

The only explanation is waifufaggotry.

Which E3 video are you thinking of? 2010's or 2011's?

I'll defend 2011's with this:
>battlefields were 5x larger than final game's and multi-leveled
>skylines went all over the place and had more than one to select
>battles looked far more intense
>theme and story were different; actual politics involved, civil war had been going on for months and entire districts looked abandoned
>actual fucking choices were present thoughout, including approach to hostile areas
>opening tears played more roles
>beginning part had more character-interaction with Elizabeth

Granted the inferior aspects being the 2-vigor limit and lack of firmer objective-guidance during the battle, but otherwise everything about it looked like the final product Levine was supposed to release.

2010's video had some good stuff too but I agree it looked like a proof-of-concept rather than a true game.

>that's just your opinion
that's just your opinion:^)

Also if you listen to commentary Ken Levine talks about how it wasn't much scripted and the AI would interact with each other by themselves

vigors were supposed to be temporary powers originally, except they left them in the final game, it's why you see bottles of devils kiss and crows fucking EVERYWHERE the second half of the game

>2
>better then infinite
What?

It was alright. Had plenty of both pros and cons, not as amazing as the paid reviews claimed but not the worst shit ever like Cred Forums parrots (play something like Damnation, Ride to Hell or Alien: Colonel Marines if you want true dogshit)

Although like and say, if you compare the final product (which itself was last-minute remade) to the E3 trailers, you'll definitely feel cheated.

It's okay. Certainly the best Bioshock game.

>defending shitty two weapon limit, garbage combat, nerfed and samey Plasmids, shit plot that rapes the lore even harder than 2 ever will

Why wasn't it?

It's unforgivable for a game with such a lot of enemies to have such a shitty shooting. All weapons were uninteresting and enemies were too bulletspongy.

It's about as bad as the other Bioshocks

As in they were all horrendously overrated FPS that only redditors like

Yes
Also, obligatory
youtube.com/watch?v=l_u18_BKczg

The weapons were abysmal compared to the previous 2 games

>upgrade stations were rare and offered mostly boring shit like rate of fire or clip size up

Inexcusable

As a bland mainstream shootan, it lived up to the same low standards as the rest of the subgenre.

What upset me was the wasted opportunities with skyrails and rifts. It's like they almost managed to make a good, fun, imaginative game, but something stopped them. Executive meddling? Incompetent leadership? Unreasonably tight development schedule?

It's a smart game for smart gamers.

not to mention there was never a guarantee to have enough ammo for that weapon you upgraded, espicially when everyone switches to shitter weapons half way through the game

Literally the only fun weapons were the shotgun, the pistol and the carbine

They all felt like pea shooters to me

Yeah they did, shotgun was the only one that felt like it had any kick, but
>20 shots total

>not going MLG pro sniper headshot happy
the only way to play the game, because except for maybe shotgun/automatic for close quaters, all of the guns suck

Play 1 and 2. When infinite came out I wanted to jump into it, but playing from 1 you appreciate the growth the series has undergone and you'll understand the plot more.

on it's own merits? no, it's a solid ok/10

when compared to the previous games, and even when compared to it's pre-release media? it's a huge fucking step backwards in every aspect

This game is an infinite mistake.

why does Cred Forums hate this other than to be contrarian?

>you appreciate the growth the series has undergone
>regression of almost everything in terms of gameplay, even the story most people praise is filled with holes that stem from basic logical inconsistencies with the worst use of the many-worlds theory ever
where or what did Infinite grow

i never played a game with such shitty shooting mechanics

everytime you shot at an ennemy they didnt react or show an effect at all

you end up just hitscanning unmoving heads all game and hoping the combat section is over soon

2 was DEFINITELY better than infinite in every way

no 2 weapon limit
more plasmids, as well as alternate modes for every plasmid
every weapon has about 4 ammo types
the research system was improved from b1 (and was absent altogether from infinite)
even the whole father/daughter relationship was handled better in 2 than infinite

tell me what infinite did better, because frankly it seems like every gameplay mechanic was dumbed down for infinite

puzzles

The story
The environment
The female lead

No

No. It was worse.

>female lead
fuck off, Eleanor is 10 times the better daughter fu

Not an argument

Cred Forums just hates Infinite because it was popular

The story was decent. The problem I had with it is I could count the total number of enemy types on one hand, which made it quite repetitive. The game pretty much didn't have bosses.

Bioshock 1 just did everything better.

Great sound design and the art style was inspired.

Let's try a little poll.

strawpoll.me/11341756

When compared to 1 and 2, very. By itself? Still pretty bad. Were we supposed to like or care about any of the characters? The gameplay was average, level design amateurish and a story that never knew where it wanted to go.

The art design was the only good aspect.

what puzzles?

I hate it because the gameplay is regressive compared to its predecessors, the story is retarded, and the trailers are almost No Man's Sky-levels of inaccuracy

No, just remarkably average. It's like a 5/10 and everyone thought it was a masterpiece because of the story. The story, mind you, that had a trans-dimensional ghost as a plot point and boss fight. The story is very, very bad. I've seen better plot twists in Ghost Trick and seen multiple worlds done better in Steins;Gate.

They nerfed the player in order to make Elizabeth more useful.

Instead of letting the player hold their own HP, mana, and ammo, you have to rely on Elizabeth.

Instead of a lock-picking minigame, Elizabeth does it for you, but you have to collect the lockpicks.

anyone who likes this game is objectively reddit

this is an undisputed fact at this point

Is the bioshock 1 remake any good

Reviewers made it out to be some 2deep4u story with complex themes when it was really just a movie that didn't really make sense. I didn't play the Burial at Sea DLC though.

This was the best Bioshock of the franchise and my all time favorite. I'll defend it to the end, you unsuffrable apes.

Bioshock Infinite made sense. The movie ended with Elizabeth murdering every Booker that ever lived.

It's BioShock with slightly improved graphics.

>boring ass weapons
>Plasmid are boring, only use 3 to counter a boss or a group of people

it was Infinite was pretty fucking bad

That isn't the only thing that doesn't make sense.

Also, since the Burial at Sea DLC happened, we clearly know that every Booker didn't die, and so the whole point of drowning him was useless.

Yes. I can stomach bad games but if there's something I can't forgive is mediocrity and this game was the definition of mediocre in every sense of the word except for aesthetics.

Eleanor was best daughter and helped drive plot much better.

Did one of your sentences eat the other?

>Zero replies
Proud of you, Cred Forums.

She only drowned the Bookers that accept the baptism, the ones who don't are still out there.

>removed hacking
>removed interesting weapon upgrades
>removed magic juice (ADAM)
>removed all but four Gene Tonic Slots
>removed researching enemies
>removed carrying medkits and EVE hypos
>removed alt-ammo

At the supposed moment he became Comstock.

Still doesn't stop the twins from dicking around with quantum space in the first place.

And if they joined Booker/Comstock's cause for monetary reasons (they sure as hell weren't swayed by the prophetic stuff), then any large scale investors would have abused the technology regardless.

it's really interesting when you go back and reread a lot of the reviews from the game's release. stuff like this just boggles the mind:

rockpapershotgun.com/2013/04/06/about-a-girl-assorted-thoughts-on-bioshock-infinite/

Did you play Burial at Sea? The Booker featured in it used to be a regular Comstock who accepted the Baptism and everything as far as we know.

If Bookstock in Burial at Sea didn't accept the Baptism, and that's how he survived the drowning, that means there's Bookers who became Comstock and started Columbia and everything without the Baptism.

but that's wrong, because she killed the player character, who didn't accept the baptism, and also the booker in burial at sea WAS at one point a comstock who then changed his name and reverted back to booker to live in rapture, so he should have died regardless

I don't know, haven't really played it.
Couldn't get past the puzzle at the beginning so I quit.
It's probably good though because it already sets a high intellectual standard at the first few minutes.

Did people ever get addicted to salts?

Nice hat placement

i really hate the muh multiverse games because
they can use every bullshit lazy plotwist without
any explanation

the only game that did the multiverse theory
well is the world of warcaft draenor expansion,
really the details and explanations make the
best sense in a multiverse setting and i must
accept that blizzard nailed it

See, who's to say that Booker became Comstock ONLY because of that one particular baptism?

There could be an infinite number of Bookers who became Comstock without going to that specific baptism. Baptism is just a symbol of faith, it doesn't transform you. Booker couldn't have become Comstock overnight.

A series of events turned him into Comstock, that baptism only being one of them. What if there's a number of Bookers who got stuck in traffic and couldn't make it to the baptism, and then went to another one a week later? What if Booker decided not to get baptized at all, but still went full Comstock?

>Did you play Burial at Sea?
No and now I'm confused.

>she killed the player character
I was kinda assuming that the player's Booker somehow becomes all Bookers because quantum mechanics.

When Booker comes to Columbia, Vigors are brand new. It's too soon for people to start getting fucked like Splicers.

you know what pissed me off about infinite that is rarely touched on? why the fuck do enemy splicers only ever use crows or fire

why are you the ONLY PERSON in columbia to use a different vigor? (except for the shock jockey boss)

the answer is lazyness; they just couldn't be bothered to make new enemies and give them AI behaviours for how to use the other powers

Art direction

As a game it was well made and has its place.

As a Bioshock game it was pretty bad.

As a story it was complete trash.

...

Fuck off Mugi

Was it even explained why plasmids existed in Bioshock Infinite in temrs of lore?

No we don't?

>See, who's to say that Booker became Comstock ONLY because of that one particular baptism?
the game is the one who says that, it always talks about "constants and variables", and elizabeth explained that the baptism was a constant, but the outcome was a variable, so her drowning booker prime was meant to eliminate all the variables, and have the constant conclusion that booker dewitt drowns in the baptism, and therefore can never become comstoc, and also can never spiral into debt that causes him to sell his daughter

then again, the sting at the end of the credits already fucked that up because it makes no sense for booker to exist with anna at all

levine admitted publicly that he doesn't understand quantum mechanics, but he thought it "sounded cool"

Dr. Suchong stole/learn that shit via tears/Lutece or some crap

Fink and Shucong shared ideas though tears.

That's how fink got the idea of songbird and Elizabeth (Big daddy and little sister)

Look up a youtube playthrough of Burial at Sea. It ties Infinite's story to BioShock 1's story.

If you thought Infinite's story was convoluted, Burial at Sea's is ten times worse. It is fucking ridiculous.

In Burial at Sea, we learn about a particular Comstock who accidentally decapitated Elizabeth as a baby instead of cutting off her finger in the portal. He felt so bad about this that he decided to jump ship; he had the Luteces open a portal to Rapture, where he went and regressed back into Booker, living there as a private eye.

Elizabeth, after the end of Infinite, has become some sort of time goddess, and is apparently hunting down Comstocks who weren't killed by the drowning at the end of the main game.

She totally fucks with Bookstock, tricking him into accidentally burning a Little Sister to death, only to then remind him what he did and who he really was. Then a Big Daddy kills him. Then a Big Daddy kills Elizabeth.

>wait a minute, that card...!

I really liked it the 1st time through, i even liked it more than Bioshock 1 and 2. But then I replayed it not long ago and it was actually pretty boring. Dunno why i loved it so much the 1st go.

you know what the real kick in the dick was? when Elizabeth gave up her godlike powers in burial at sea for no reason than other to set Bioshock 1 into motion which doesnt make sense in itself because of this multiverse bullshit

what the fuck was ken levine thinking when writing this horse shit? Bioshock 1 had such a nice mystery to it but he had to shit all over his own story to make some stupid ass theory of multiverse which was also pants on head retarded because if you introduce infinite worlds, infinite timelines, and infinite people then you cant really stop it unless you end the fucking universe in all aspects

also when the chinese guy was insane because he died in another universe wouldnt that make everyone across all different universes as well insane because of that same reason?

>it makes no sense for booker to exist with anna at all
What do you mean? Bookers who never went to the Baptism didn't get killed. We don't know how or when he got Anna.

Fink saw Suchong making plasmids in a tear and ripped him off

how he figured out how to get ocean slugs WHILE IN A SECRET FLOATING CITY is a whole different unexplained problem

fuck off newfag, we actually have this thread everyday with people bitching about the same shit.

It showed then being used for entertainment, which doesn't make sense because they're weaponized and the lady that gives you the first vigor can be used to kill

was it ever explained why plasmids were marketed towards the general populace in the first place? i understand that yes people have moved under the sea and are living in complete freedom from traditional authority but at what point did they go "let's use these sea slugs and process their chemicals in little girls until we can use them to fuel our superpowers"?? did the powers make them go mad? why does the main character use them then??? who thought it would be a good idea to market mind control and bee swarm plasmids to the general populace of rapture??

people always praise bioshock but i have always had a problem with how retarded parts of it like that are.

>353473961
It's more of a weekly thing you big baby

...

the game tells us that the baptism is a constant, so it ALWAYS HAPPENS (even though this completely defeats the point of infinite realities created by differing choices)

there are no "bookers who never went to the baptism", at least thats what the game wanted us to believe for any scrap of the ending to make sense

No you idiot. Killing Booker back then eliminates any chance of him ever being Booker or Comstock.

>Still doesn't stop the twins from dicking around with quantum space in the first place.
Yes, the sabotage seperated the twins from the time-space continuum

>then any large scale investors would have abused the technology regardless.
Yes. See Burial at Sea and Bioshock 1. What is your point?

Wait a minute that card....

only because the AI is absolute shit, combat would have been better.

the idea was freedom from social constraints, everyone stands on their own
plasmids were marketed as tools (telekinesis) or self defence (incinerate)

also the reason no one gave a shit about using little girls was because Andrew Ryan preached a lot about freeing intellectuals from moral constraints, to allow technology to flourish at the expense of the weak

of course not. only fat neckbeards believe it was bad

Why does killing one Booker in a baptism kill all the Bookers? What if a Booker in another universe refused to let the Elizabeths kill him in the baptism? Wouldn't killing all the Bookers make all the Elizabeths and Comstocks disappear, thus making it so that Booker can never be drowned, thus making Booker exist again in a paradox or something? Why is Comstock bad in every single universe? Why does getting a baptism turn you into a racist retard? How did Comstock get the massive amount of money required to build a gigantic floating city? Why doesn't the US shoot down the giant retard city floating in their airspace? Why don't Booker and Elizabeth teleport to another Booker who is going to the island and warn him about what's going to happen? Why don't Booker and Elizabeth just kill the Luteces rather than killing Booker? Why don't Booker and Elizabeth go into another universe where Booker/Elizabeth don't exist and live happily ever after? Why does everyone else die in an alternate reality when they realized they died in another reality, but Booker doesn't die when he realizes he died in another reality? Everytime Booker dies in the game he leaves his office which represents a new Booker in a new reality, so when one Booker dies why don't all of them die since they establish that dying in one reality fucks you up in all of them?

How bad is "that bad" exactly?

Was it an incredibly overrated game that has no gamplay, storytelling or audiovisual merit? yes.

Was it fucking garbage?
no.

>mfw this person doesn't under Schrodinger's Cat thought experiment and multiple worlds theory

Considering how fucked up BioShock Infinite's development went, can it even be considered canon?

...

You just don't understand the complex narrative and characters user.

so did Ken Levine

>infinite
>story

It wasn't a 0-5/10 worst game ever that people label it now, but it definitely wasn't the 10/10 game it was reviewed as.

The metacritic score is absurdly high, and I think this is one of the games that had a big enough backlash afterwards reviewers started getting a bit more critical on AAA releases.

It was the best game of the 7th generation.

Yes, and Elizabeth was the worst part.

The guy you initially replied to have more of an argument than you did

Do you know how LONG most of us waited for us waited for this game with anticipation expecting the System Shock 3 in only for this linear corridor shooter muh feels piece of shit to come out in its place instead?

Fuck off with your contrarian meme

It's objectively bad, nigga.

>le schrodinger's cat xD
It's called superposition you fucking clod.

>Comparing STALKER to Deus Ex
>Comparing Messiah to Deus Ex
>Complaining that Messiah, a game set in a medieval fantasy world, doesn't have hacking

No, but it was hardy the GOAT that a lot of the media made it out to be
>Cokehead Sessler claiming it was the game that defined video games for him

Yes I know and it was the motherfucking schrodinger's cat thought cat that was the most plebian way of explaining that concept

Idk if he did or not, but the story did do the concept justice

>Start with Bioshock 1 dude.

Which version -- original or remastered?

Same game. Whichever one you want

yes

it was pretty mediocre senpai

lot of shit that felt like afterthoughts not to mention the whole game was basically CoD with a different coat of paint at points

>did do the concept justice
top kek

>comparing a game that holds your hand and strips away features to have as little player agency as possible to ones that don't

The audacity!

The idea of Booker coming out of the baptism a reformed Comstock or Booker and how it was solved in the end does show an understanding of the thought experiment

It was average. Not great, not terrible, just really average

>Elizabeth was hunting down comstock in burial at sea
>Even though she killed booker which supposedly killed him before he could become comstock
I don't get it

Holy shit,Infinite story made 0 sense user and it's no surprise when we have Ken "I like things that make me feel stupid" Levine on the job

constants and variables user

It was style over substance

Who else figured it out that card on their first try?

All the Comstock that died at the end of Infinite is linked with the common factor Anna surviving the kidnapping. This one didn't

>retconning BS1 to make elizabeth responsible for every plot breakthrough ever
why

...

It's was. I hope Cred Forums will stop chimping out each time someone talks about this game

>more than 2 weapons

How come she had to kill the booker that you play as though? It's pretty clear that booker and comstocks timelines split up when booker refused his baptism. I don't see how that would kill any comstocks even if you said there's a chance that that booker could become comstock

Because hack writers.

It's Elizabeth's personal vendetta to kill all remaining Comstocks that exist outside the loophole.

Which almost immediately gets dropped for her atonement quest

Maximum damage control.

I assure you that you've put more thought into this than Levine and his team, and that's a damn shame

Solid 5/10.

>there's a parallel universe where bioshock infinite is actually a good game
>it's not this one

Basically the Comstock/Booker relationship is defined by
a) Accepting/Rejecting the Baptism
b)Former successfully stealing the latter's Anna.

Killing Comstock that does a) and b) was one thing, but they needed to eliminate the possibility of there ever being a Comstock that does a) and b). That is why they needed to kill Booker at the baptism

>inb4 but muh stinger
The stinger could be another set of timelines where Booker never went to the baptism in the first place.

However the Comstock in Burial only completed a), also his timeline never did intertwine with other timelines. Hence he survived the ending of Infinte.

Tbh, of all things to complain about the game, seeing Cred Forums shit on its story is just retarded. If anything Cred Forums would have used the opportunity to at least be aware about quantum mechanics that the game actually does well presenting (And yes the Luctec field does exist and can technically float a city)

guys I figured it out

booker and elizabeth are adam and eve

>A universe got one of these demos.
youtu.be/snDNJdmSSHc
youtu.be/6WUt5dEMt_Y

God damn I love the way the PC98 made things love.

She never hinted there were any more of others like him out there.

> If anything Cred Forums would have used the opportunity to at least be aware about quantum mechanics that the game actually does well presenting (And yes the Luctec field does exist and can technically float a city)
Googling "weird quantum things" and putting them in a game does not a good presentation make.

True, but that is more of the fact that QM is really hard to understand and portray. Infinite is probably one of the best stories that incorporates it to the narrative.

>Infinite is probably one of the best stories that incorporates it to the narrative.

If you want to just shit on the game instead of talking about the QM elements in it that is fine senpai

Why would anyone put the amount of time and effort into this image? Like it's some big conspiracy that Infinite is a shitty linear shooter.

It was pretentious garbage. 1 and 2 are much superior to it.

Same reason why so many people put time and effort into lambasting games like DNF, ME3, MGSV, NMS, etc. They were expecting one thing, shown that one thing, and, after tantamount delays/a rushed release, they got a product that completely betrayed expectations.

Shooting aspect sucked, boss fights sucked, the story didn't make sense, choice were few and ultimately meaningless, because they're only an illusion.

I remember when I first saw the trailer for inf. I knew it was way too ambitious

It's a bad enough crime that it's a mechanical step back from BioShock in every sense except visual, but it's the thematic regression from BioShock 2 which really pisses me off.

We already had this great story about a dad on the warpath over custody rights, but it wasn't wrapped up in such pointless enigma or packaged with cliches and their not so clever subversions, like literally rescuing Disney Princess Elizabeth from the tallest tower and Booker's clownish incompetence alongside his inability to make a meaningful choices at every turn because - shock - he's not really the hero.

Burial at Sea just makes it all worse. The retrospective backlash from reviewers who treated the game in the first place like it was high art is disgusting.

A game that incorporates hard science into the narrative well: Simcity 2000. The default setting had all cities starting in 1900, and new forms of power would gradually be invented over the next 300 years. Highways were not unlocked until 1950 as well, so early cities had to be planned good and utilize railways.

A game that incorporates soft science into the narrative well: Portal. While the portal gun is a complete fantasy, it makes for fun gameplay and the entire narrative of "Aperture Science" is based upon it which the player explores using it.

Bonus: Deus Ex incorporated issues with Internet Protocols (presented as Bob Page's Aquinas Protocol) directly into the narrative, as it is a device that acts as a foil to the main character. Human Revolution did the same with prosthetics, which directly alter gameplay.

It's not that hard of a concept. The concept within it they mostly focus on, but failed at, is that every possible outcome exists within it's own timeline but instead they bring in this constant and variables bullshit. It also ignores it's own logic with the solution being to kill Booker at the baptism when QM would say there's an infinite number of universes this doesn't happen as well Comstocks, evil Bookers and Elizabeths trying to prevent this. This also ignores the other major component in QM that you can't alter the future due to it's fix to the grandfather paradox which stated that time travel is impossible because if you went back in time to kill your grandfather creating a paradox because they would need to be alive for you to exist. QM says you simply create a new universe where your grandfather died and your time line is unaffected.

The other bullshit is the nosebleeding "remembering your death" when jumping into universes you've died in. The first group of people you meet died in the universe you came from but are alive in this one so them remembering their death makes no sense. It only makes sense when Booker gets a nosebleed when you go to the world he died in.

Infinite's story is riddled with plot holes. BS2's story wasn't bad - it was just straightforward and didn't have a twist. It expands on Big Daddies and their father-daughter mentality. It introduces new characters and gives them interesting backstories. It gives us a new boss enemy that's genuinely threatening and requires trap-laying and preparation to beat.

Infinite gave us a "consants and variables" deus ex machina, less depth and dumbed down gameplay.

Why were there balloons everywhere if the city flies due to "particles that don't fall"

Why don't Booker and Elizabeth just take the first floating raft they come across to Paris instead of taking the blimp?

Why don't all the oppressed blacks and Irish just fucking leave? I'm sure the upper classes would be happy to see them go.

Why doesn't booker wear gloves?

Why do neither Booker or Elizabeth realise that they can't move all those guns by themselves? And why do they think jumping dimensions is a good way of solving that problem? If the rebels have the guns in the other dimension then they have no reason to strike a deal with Booker in the first place.

Why don't the two timelords just sort shit out themselves? They're obviously powerful enough.

Why has nobody made a plane? They live in the fucking air and already have robot horses. Come the fuck on.

Why is Elizabeth so capable of speech and Disney princess-ey? She's literally never talked to anyone but a massive bird before.

Why are there constants and variables?

Yes, but after playing through BS2 recently as well it is also pretty lame. This whole franchise is basically "story shooters" since none of them are difficult.

I meant incorporates QM senpai. The rest of scince/technology you said is very easy to understand and grasp

>there's an infinite number of universes this doesn't happen as well Comstocks, evil Bookers and Elizabeths trying to prevent this.
There is only one universe where the murder of the baptism takes place, since afterwards an infinite number of universe spawns from it. Also that is not QM but many worlds theory

>QM says you simply create a new universe where your grandfather died and your time line is unaffected.
No that is the many worlds theory.

>QM having anything to say about causality and time travel
Quantum tunneling does show some interaction between the future and the past but that about it

I argee that the nosebleeding was something they come up with it but seriously
>remembering their death makes no sense
Elizabeth's tears made them a superposition of dead and alive which supposedly causes their nosebleed. How is that not easy to understand?

She was hunting down the stragglers.

Elizabeth and the Lutecis were immune to altering the timeline because they were partly outside of timespace.

>Elizabeth's tears made them a superposition of dead and alive which supposedly causes their nosebleed. How is that not easy to understand?

Are you saying she somehow forced the majority of one universe into another creating a universe all together? I figured they simply traveled into another universe which meant the people who were still alive in the new world wouldn't remember being dead in another universe as they weren't the ones going to a new universe. That's why I said it made sense when it happened to Booker as he had traveled to one in which he died and the memories of that Booker were coming to him.

Gonna start BioShock 1 today.

Doesn't matter if I play remastered or not, right?

>QM

not really, it's just a convenient plot excuse when one doesn't really need to exist given the already fantasical nature of the setting

Remastered is full of glitches. Play the original

expect shadow/lighting/reflection fuck ups that were intentional, less options than the original, and game crashing. For PC anyways, console version is ok from what I've heard

No she forced the people killed to superpose onto another timeline (i.e. there and not there at the same time), hence their mermories of dying and not dying conflict and cause the nosebleed.

The same happens when Booker's real memories and fake ones collide and he nosebleeds

I have no issues with the remaster

Infinite was the first Bioshock I played, and pretty much the only one. I got it on sale for 15$ and definitely got more value than that out of singleplayer.

It is ADAM of Columbia. I don't see why it is unnecessary though.

so why was the leather and copper clad bird man invulnerable again?

besides the writers saying so?

I did not care for it, no sir.

Because he drank his milk and stayed in school.

It really is amazing how awful the story already was but Burial managed to to somehow take it down even further to such an extent that it retroactively smeared shit on the previous games as well. Truly masterful.

>That fucking hideous retcon to Daisy Fitzroy

Holy fuck who thought that was a good idea.

I understand they felt Daisy was a wasted character in Infinite because the vanilla game has fucking silly writing but they go and make it all worse in that attempt at salvaging that waste.

Its like the more they try to write to cover for their previous writing failures, the worse everything gets.

columbia has adam though, in the form of vigors. But that's never explained, either

It's explained that they found a tear that took them to Rapture and the stole the technology.

No i meant that I dont see people complain about the presecne of ADAM in Bioshock than they do about QM in Infinite

Infinite is a great example of waifuism ruining a game. Or should I say daughterism? Honestly I was never on board with the father/daughter aspect. They did a really poor job of showcasing it. Felt like a normal man and woman relationship but then they decide to make it awkward and inform you that Elizabeth is in fact your daughter. Just, why? I mean it only made my penis harder. There's no fondness or attachment here. No matter how hard they tried to make her look like a fucking disney character it didn't matter. People still only saw her in a sexual light.

I guess that they just stole enough of a stockpile of the stuff to supply the whole city with ADAM.

Wait I thought normal folks couldn't go through tears, only Liz.

They could see and listen through tears, but going through them wasn't possible. Fink got the idea of vigors by eavesdropping on Suchong through tears, not by physically jumping to Rapture and hauling off samples.

And Fink the corrupt businessman is a better scientist than anyone in Rapture because he whips up an unlimited amount of vigors without access to a single drop of ADAM. These also completely invalidates the entire reason Big Daddies and Little Sisters exist, because Fink doesn't have any need for recycling ADAM.

He did mention in Burial that he spends people to collect sea slugs

I only played vanilla, which never even attempts to address Fink's ADAM supply.

Ah well can't blame you there. However there is a voxphone that mentions Fink plagiarizing the fuck out of Suchong

Game killed Roger Ebert

Game would have been better if it dropped the time/space bullshit and just focused on Columbia. Such a wasted setting. Looked so nice but it became nothing but a set piece for Elizabeth to walk around in. The "story" could have taken place anywhere and still been the same.

THE KEY WAS THERE THE WHOLE TIME I JUST COULDNT SEE IT

it was built over the course of years by multiple people, and you'd know that if you'd been with this series longer and not just bandwagoned onto infinite, thinking your opinion is valued

I was here when Cred Forums shat all over this game. Give it two more years, you'll have people in Cred Forums praising it as a classic. I hate you people.

no
but it was MASSIVELY overhyped. the gameplay boring cookie cutter CoD shit with 100% useless upgrades and vigors
Levine is a smart man, just put in a waifu and make a nonsensical 2deep4u story to lure in the pretentious normies that will defend the game to their deaths because they "get" the story, and bam you get GOTY prizes everywhere

Please don't remind me.

>ending was basically a long infodump of shit that was only mentioned during that moment

What was even the point of it all?

Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey anyone?

what the fuck was even the point of the key it's so baffling
it's like they just briefly discussed the ending and never actually had time to put together any of their ideas coherently

...

Who killed the guy in the lighthouse in the intro

You did, the first time.

works for me ;)

The answer for everything in the game is constants and variables.

Some cunt wanted to be able to use his hand as a lighter and the rest is history

The gameplay was underwhelming and the story was absolute shit. And if that wasn't enough, they sloppily tied this game to the first Bioshock for some stupid reason.

Elizabeth was one of the better things about the game. Shame what they did to her in the final DLC.

i think a lot of those plasmids came to be after the civil war had started, and were being sold by war profiteers

The gameplay trailer for bioshock infinite was drasticly different than what we got at release. We found out that they pretty much scrapped the story and good chunk of the game and just hobble a bunch of shit together.
If something didn't make sense then it was probably the effect of the cut.
Or a better reason being Ken Levine is a hack.

>self defence (incinerate)
But Incinerate! wasn't marketed for self defense, it was marketed as a cigarette lighter. A Plasmid that was marketed for self defense is Target Dummy

not really, the baptism is only a constant in the realities that branch from it. if you were to "trim" a branch before the baptism (Booker dies in the battle of wounded knee for example) then Booker and the baptism never ever happens.

Yes.

Which the games story doesn't follow.
Preaching constants and variables. Clearly pointing out that Booker is a constant and the end of the game is liz killing you thinking this will change fucking anything.

Given it's pedigree and the disproportionate amount of hype and praise it got. Yes it was pretty bad.

Considering that you can't even type out a comprehensive sentence I'm not going to trust your claim that it 'did the concept justice'.

Yes
And DESU, if they renamed the game and a few in game things, it could be a totally different game
> As a Bioshock game
6/10
> As a stand alone game
8/10
It had a pretty strong start but once you get to liz's tower it goes down hill fast and turns into a poorly written moffat-tier doctor who

Only people I know who looks it are Yahtzee parrots and that faggot hasent been funny in years

Distilled lies results in overbearing anger

No

fun to play through in a net cafe

dont buy it

She died a hero.

"Constants and variables" is an allegory for the video game industry

It was the last AAA game I bought on release, that's for sure. Anyone who defends this game, be it on gameplay or story deserves to be shot.

I wonder what ever happened to the plot point of stuff warping between that reality and a reality where Columbia was owned by the Soviets.

>Why are there constants and variables?
You shouldn't be asking Why. You should be asking where.
As in in "Where are the constants and variables". They talk about them and name them off but we never experience any of them and Liz downright breaks this rule of the games universe but killing you at the end.

Cant remember. I played SS and SS2 multiple times, Bioshock and bioshock 2 several times too. Only played infinite once. Might buy the remaster and give it a go.

>Luteces call the coin flip in Columbia a constant because it always lands on the same side
>There are plenty of universes out there where Columbia doesn't even exist, therefore it is impossible for a coin flip in Columbia to be a constant

Where is that Cred Forums's picture mocking some idiots who throw out a person based on some misspelling when you need it?

The worst thing for a game or a entertainment platform in general is to be so very mediocre that you can't remember it.

Go play System Shock 2 and forget the series existed

It was definitely a let down. Sounds great on paper, but the execution left a lot to be desired.

their shitty writing says that Columbia existing was a constant too.

It has heavy negative whiplash here because so many people were jacking off to it on launch.
It's not as bad as Cred Forums says, on it's own it's a very bland average rooty tooty aim and shooty with a few elements from bioshock, but it sure as shit isn't as good as what critics say.

She was fucking retarded, especially in the DLCs. I enjoyed watching her get beat to death with a wrench .

Reminder that the entire reason the plot happens is that Comstock gets magical testicular cancer from fucking around with Lutece's technology that renders him sterile, thus he requires a child from an alternate universe self.

Oh and he also undergoes a rapid aging process so that he looks physically different for plot convenience to help hide the twist despite being the same age as player character Booker.

>bioshock 2's plot: Bioshock 2 (), Bioshock Infinite ()

kek

>not starting the superior System Shock. Now with mouse look there is no excuse not to play it.

If you're on PC, original. The remaster on PC is completely broken.

What was the retcon? I can't remember

She had foreknowledge Elizabeth was going to stab her or something

Which in the none scrapped and pasted together original version 6 months before the final release. None of that shit was probably the least bit true.

>Why were there balloons everywhere if the city flies due to "particles that don't fall"
Altitude control
>Why don't Booker and Elizabeth just take the first floating raft they come across to Paris instead of taking the blimp?
No reason. The creators are retarded.
>Why don't all the oppressed blacks and Irish just fucking leave? I'm sure the upper classes would be happy to see them go.
No reason. It's retarded. They wanted to include the mistreatment of the Black and Irish because it was a contemporary thing, except it doesn't explain how they were brought to Columbia in the first place. The blacks were in the US left over from the slave trade, the Irish were escaping their hellish lives in Ireland under British Rule.
They only reason either groups would be in Columbia would be to serve as the working class, effectively being slaves to the upper class people in Columbia's society.
>Why doesn't booker wear gloves?
No reason. The creators are retarded.
>Why do neither Booker or Elizabeth realise that they can't move all those guns by themselves? And why do they think jumping dimensions is a good way of solving that problem? If the rebels have the guns in the other dimension then they have no reason to strike a deal with Booker in the first place.
No reason. The creators are retarded.
>Why don't the two timelords just sort shit out themselves? They're obviously powerful enough.
No reason. The creators are retarded.
>Why has nobody made a plane? They live in the fucking air and already have robot horses. Come the fuck on.
No reason. The creators are retarded. They just wanted to have airships to get the steampunk idiots on board.
>Why is Elizabeth so capable of speech and Disney princess-ey? She's literally never talked to anyone but a massive bird before.
Because Elizabeth likely had a lot more character development in the original versions of the game.
>Why are there constants and variables?
No reason. The writers are retarded.

is the plot of burial at sea any good? wondering if I should play it

It suffers from most of the same problems as Duke Nukem Forever.

Think about it.

It was incompetent leadership

The Luteces approached her in person and asked her to make a deal. The deal is that Daisy willingly sacrifices herself to be killed by Liz, and in exchange Comstock is eventually dealt with in the future. The Luteces set this up because they need to turn Liz into a killer for mysterious reasons that are never developed, and apparently they need to kill someone half-decent instead of any random person. Daisy gladly accepts this generous offer.

So when you encounter Daisy in Finktown smearing blood on her face and threatening to kill the mysterious random child in Fink's office, she is just putting on an act. She isn't crazy or insane or anything, she is just trying to provoke Liz into killing her. Daisy is actually innocent and a saint who is willing to sacrifice herself for the greater good of bringing down Comstock through means that aren't really explained. She was never going to hurt that kid.

And then Liz shanks her in order to something something become a killer as the Luteces have planned in the background. Because thats something that is required to defeat Comstock or something. The writers don't know what the fuck they are doing.

And its a fucking waste because Daisy had every damn right to be pissed off at the Founders because they hunted her for 20 years over a fabricated crime she didn't commit. Though why Daisy just didn't leave Columbia is the bigger mystery.

Reading this thread with actual knowledge of QM is painful.

several years of development hell switching hands from developer to developer and ultimately landing in the hands of complete and utter morons that just tie a bow on a turd and ship it out?
Nah. That's not Infinite. Infinite had a short development time under a singular developer. Which resulted in the game getting 40% scrapped 6 months prior to release.

It suffers from none of DNF's flaws.

2 weapon limit

linear level design

bad writing

bad graphics

>bad graphics
You just don't understand ART

Got sauce for that or just a baseless assumption?

That can be said about alot of games prior to DNF.
Those are just superficial problems that any game could have.

Nameless NPCs in Half Life 2 were more expressive than this. How the fuck did this shit get praised for its facial animation? Elizabeth is the only thing that looks decent and it's all scripted as fuck.

...

Yes.
You will now remember:
youtube.com/watch?v=VmZ1de8v5LM

Believe it or not, this is a videogame about shooting people in the face and throwing fireballs

>All those abominations and other fucked up enemies from the concept art due to tear fuckery
>Get literally none of that shit
>Boys of Silence go from sound-based security cameras to literal security cameras with a floodlight coming from their blind headgear, only exist in a single section of the game

the 1980s portion felt like it was from a completely different fucking game. would have been neat if there was more of it though

Worse than DNF

No, it was worse

Read the bioshock book. Plasmids were originally used for workers for the obvious jobs, then the general populous got a hold of it, the as tensions rose in rapture and people were getting addicted to ADAM that's when they started to get used for combat.

How the vigors were used in infinte really bugged me. In bioshock 1 and 2, besides the weird plasmids like bees, I can tell that these were originally used fro work and had practical use besides just killing people. But all of the vigors in infinite seemed like they were made for the sole purpose of being used by booker to kill people with it. Like how devils kiss shot out a fire ball or undertow and bucking bronco. I could imagine every single plasmid in bioshock 1 and 2 being used outside of the game, including bees for polination).

...

It's still a decent shooter

...

Liz's powers having not a single reasonable explanation or limitations was a huge mistake. She can do any fucking thing she wants and is also extremely weak when she needs to be, whatever the plot demands at the time. Similar to how "constants and variables" are used; just a convenient handwave for the writing.

Apparently her powers work just fine while inside the gigantic machine meant to limit her powers, and the power chart at the base of the Siphon shows her power increasing exponentially even with the Siphon. The Siphon is likewise destroyed by Songbird shortly after encountering Liz, but Liz doesn't become god until a completely different Siphon three universes over is destroyed in an identical manner, a Siphon that the current Liz was never "hooked up" to. Not that there is anything to hook someone up to in the Siphon.

Then again the Siphon wasn't ever meant to do anything really; it was recycled assets from when Liz was the source of salts and vigors, hence the name and the blue colored energy tanks and such found inside.

Then we encounter a "mini-Siphon" trap in Lady Cornstarch's grave, which apparently does have an effect on Liz where the gigantic one doesn't. It looks like a bunch of speakers hooked up in the little shrine area and it lets out a pulse that apparently makes Liz's powers malfunction in some way to create that goddamn fucking quantum-ghost-necromancer-mom boss. Then the ghost blows up the goddamn gate to Comstock house with Liz's own power thus rendering the retarded "fetch the dead lady's hand" thing moot. What the fuck?

Then on the way to Comstock house you get kidnapped by a Liz that was "depowered" through some mysterious means and barely has the energy after decades of waiting to warp you to 1980, give you the macguffin, and send you right back. Assuming you even end up in the fucking universe you left in the first place.

THAT STILL DOSN"T WORK
IF ELIZABETH IS SOME MULTIVERSE TRAVELER THEN SHE SHOULD NO BETTER THAN ANYONE THAT KILLING A FEW BOOKER'S IS A FUTILE EXERCISE, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE MORE FOR FUCK SAKE.

And then you return and rescue "your Liz" from a bigass unexplained machine that is the thing that can apparently remove Liz's power by shoving a needle in her spine. What that has to do with Liz's interdimensional pinky wound I have no clue. Immediately after getting her out of the machine she opens a tear to what I assume is the midwest where a tornado is raging because only during cutscenes are her emotions a factor in what a tear can bring. In gameplay there is nothing like that.

If they have a giant machine that can almost permanently remove Liz's tear fuckery powers then why did they ever bother with the combination Siphon/prison tower in the first place?

And since we are rapidly hopping dimensions through the last half of the game where are all the other Liz's?

>Why don't the two timelords just sort shit out themselves? They're obviously powerful enough.
>No reason. The creators are retarded.
Aren't they like, separated from time or some stupid shit, so they can't actually change events, just observe? I mean, I'm not defending the game, but I recall something like that, handwaving that away.

The real Constant was Booker.
There will always be a Booker.
The variable is whether or not booker will become comstock.
The reason why none of this conversations matters and why the games story is complete and utter horse shit is because Ken Levine himself basically stated that he has no fucking idea what he is talking about when it comes to quantum mechanics let alone his own messed up take on it.
so when something doesn't make sense it means that it doesn't make sense. trying to make sense out of it is pointless because the creator themselves weren't even trying to make it make sense.

The time lords antagonize liz with that song.
give Booker a arbitrary choice.
Literally give a booker who has little to no idea what he is doing hints and directions on what he is supposed to be doing.

At no real point in time are they just observing. they are actively affecting the people in the story.

I mean, in the sense they can't change things. They can still interact with the players, but whatever they do, events will unfold overall, as though they hadn't been there. Again, it's a stupid handwave, but it is still "covered".

no. it was a complete departure from the first 2 but it wasn't bad. that being said, it's a helluva lot more casual

I'm pretty sure if right at the beginning they said "Oh and by the way Comstock is a crazy you from another timeline" things would unfold differently.

The song thing did change things though.
Liz wouldn't have know about the songs full effects if one of the time lords wasn't tip tappin on piano.
Booker would have just been walking around and being entirely oblivious to what he was doing at the start.

The time lords basically set everything in motion.
The entire game is just one of their experiments.
Because Ken Levine doesn't understand a single fucking thing he is talking about.

>Get the best fucking plasmid, the bullet shield reflect one, in the last bits of the game
>Same with the water tentacle thing that lets you throw shit

Why

Also fuck the random clothing system

Loved the lore/world building and story telling, but the plot itself isn't too much convincing. Characters could be better. Gameplay was decent and a bit underrated on here.

7/10

>Aren't they like, separated from time or some stupid shit, so they can't actually change events, just observe? I mean, I'm not defending the game, but I recall something like that, handwaving that away.
I think you're right, that they can't "directly" change things. But they can try get people to do it for them. or something stupid like that. Just like a lot of stuff in the game, it's vague and not elaborated very well.

>decent and a bit underrated.
It was actively worse in the gameplay department comparably to the first and second game.
In which those two games didn't have great gameplay in the first place.
The traps were completely pointless in a open aired environment. All enemies actively avoided them because they easily could.
You only needed to stick to 2 weapons but the game forces you to drop those for different weapon that work the same but weaker because different ammo in different parts of the game. also two weapon limit.
Every vigor had a trap. Pointless.
One plasmid had a effect on the world. It was only 3 uses. One of which was a optional back track for a singular health/shield/salt upgrade.
Skyrails were pointless.
There were no boss battles.
Enemies are bullet sponges.

It was in no shape or form underrated.
If anything it was overrated.

>Skyrails were pointless.
The rest is totally legit, but those didn't need a reason to exist, other than to be fun, which they were. They allowed easy mobility and repositioning, as well as affording verticality to the fights. They weren't utilized nearly as well as they could have been, but the combat was still more fun for having them. Hell, using them was about the only time I was even having fun in that games combat.

>There were no boss battles
what about lady cornsnatch?

How does Liz knock out Booker for multiple hours with a single wrench blow?

He has been tanking hits from mechanical gorillas all day. A wimp like Liz wouldn't even get through his shield.

I would rather forget that.
The literal worst part of the game.

>Skyrails were pointless.
God I'm still fucking mad. Shit like this and Mass Effect 3 in general just utterly broke me. I saw the previews for them and was just blown away. I still remember seeing the skyrails and using them to get onto blimps and shit and just couldn't even understand how that worked, but I knew for sure that it would because the devs were awesome.

And now I can't trust any triple AAA dev. I'll never fall for their tricks again.

>Highly advanced DNA-linked lock on the gate to Comstock house, a technology that doesn't exist anywhere else in Columbia
>Comstock himself is locked out of it with this DNA lock because Booker can't just wave his hand on it and unlock it
>Perfect and Infallible Liz gets the idea to use dead lady's hand for the DNA lock
>Said lady has been dead for twenty fucking years and would surely be removed from the DNA lock database anyway
>Mini-siphon makes Liz's powers malfunction somehow and creates that goddamn boss you have to fight three fucking times
>Dead Lady's corpse completely gone, so instead of fucking with the DNA lock the ghost just fucking blows up the gate

What the FUCK where they thinking with that section.

Its pure fucking nonsense.

No.

It wasn't THAT good. It's a game that's worse than it's two predecessors yet is hailed as the Citizen Kane of Videogames.

It's literally like TLOU. A 5/10 barely acceptable game that got blown out of proportions due to it attracting hordes of people who otherwise hate videogamesso they have nothing to compare them to

>goddamn boss you have to fight three fucking times

I seriously thought the game was glitched when it kept happening and was ready to give up on the game forever.

No.

By murdering Booker before he became Comstock, it erased every Booker APART from the original Booker, because now the OG Booker couldn't go into the future to go into the past and cause Elizabeth's powers to happen.

wait a minute, that scene!

Is this considered dithering? I'm not familiar with the coloring style

Narrative demands.

This. The only plasmids I liked were the ram one and the one that possessed people, and the effectiveness of the latter died off pretty fucking quick.

It was boring and the only thing it has to its credit is that it looked pretty.

ITT: idiots who don't understand constants and variables

He wears the hat good. Real good.

Am I right in saying that Elizabeth prime is Canonicly dead thanks to the events of Burial at Sea? So they cant bring her back without fucking over their own rules of time and space?

It's pretty bad. It has nothing going for it except superb presentation (visuals and voice acting). Gameplay is boring and the plot is non-sensical, but worse than that it's DULL. 80% of it is a wild goose chase to get to the blimp where nothing noteworthy happens at all, and the bonding with Liz was non-existant.

It's not terrible by its own means, it's terrible because people regard this as a literal 10/10 when it's not even a 5. Having the "Bioshock" title just adds insult to injury.

What these posters said.

I hate it because of the praise it gets, but it's pretty damn mediocre and there's no reason to play it unless you play for pretty visuals.

Constants and variables, user.

No. When Elizabeth chose to go to Rapture, another universe was created where Elizabeth didn't go to Rapture.

Worse.

youtube.com/watch?v=VdNhwb7iuI4

Who couldn't love CREEPY GHOST MOM BATTLE WITH LIMITED AMMO FOR NO REASON

I swear to god that may have been the least fun segment of a video game I have ever played in my life.

I seem to remember "constants" being things like the protagonist always first comes across a lighthouse and there's always some kind of wacky city with a cult.

I would have happily taken either of these demos. Especially the first one, it made Elizabeth seem more independent.

I love you

Who is that ?

Not really. The game is Ok. It has its moments and Elizabeth is a very memorable character if a bit of a Mary Sue by the end of it.

I fucking hate that they had to connect it to Bioshock 1 and Rapture though. The first games were better off as their own things and didn't need the padding, nor the fanservice. I will never get the need of some people to have everything explained and connected, spoon-fed. It's like they are afraid to use their fucking imagination.

>a bigass unexplained machine
The voxphones already explained it. It would induce pain whenever she use a Tear, nearby conditioning her to never use it. Are you legitmately retarded?

test?

It was hyped up to high heaven to be this masterpiece story game, but ended up being a basic FPS with massively spongey enemies, a story that tried too hard to be deep and complex that in actuality was pretty basic and horribly predictable, and was mostly just an ok game at best.

Bioshock 1 and 2 were better. Bioshock Infinite just felt like they tried way too hard.

Everything changed from the past two was for the worse so I'd consider it a failure

So bad, it's basically a meme

Because Yahtzee said so.
youtube.com/watch?v=gm9Eta491O8
youtube.com/watch?v=rciyCHa6J4o

>Cliffy B

Can't stand this asshole.

Also haven't seen much of anything pertaining to him for a while now. What's this mega-douche been up to?

Same reason Cred Forums hates Bethesda games: they are actually knowledgeable regarding the medium and have educated frames of reference.

It's like going back to Creed after listening to Soundgarden.

you tell me.

It wasn't bad, but it could have been so much more. They planned it to be, but ambition had to give way to deadlines.

Pic related. They had planned a story arch about regular Joes who had "merged" with their alternate selves after coming across a tear.

yes, that particular instance was insulting, but that one mistake does not make the whole game bad. I'm currently playing through it for the first time since launch, and I'm actually enjoying it more than I remembered.

It still bothers me that there's no visual changes to the weapons as you upgrade them. That just feels super lazy since the first two games both did it.

>Virtually all of that was tossed out the window for what is now called Bioshock Infinite

>Cred Forums complains about the story
>turns out Cred Forums can't understand it

this taught me to never believe e3 hype ever again

...

>turns out Cred Forums can't understand it
Funny, neither does the writer.

...

...

...

When does he say that

>inb4 lol he said quantum mechanics make me stupid
That doesn't mean the whole game. Also

>If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics.

first two games had a great horror atmosphere and solid story. third game had very little atmosphere and a flaky story
bioshock 1 is about the dangers of too much freedom. nearly every major character is a huge asshole that got drunk on the lack of law enforcement. all the tapes and contextual storytelling revolve around that idea.
bioshock 2 is about the dangers of unrestrained subservience. nearly every major character is a spineless coward who followed Lamb because they'd lost faith in their ability to decide for themself, and most of the tapes revolve around similar ideas of what happens when you rely to heavily on others to manage your life for you, with the underlying thing of your daughteru being subservient to you and realizing you need to set a better example for her than her mother did
3 tries to say something about running away. Elizabeth wants to flee to Paris. Her power is all about bailing on this reality to a similar one. Booker ran away from his baptism while Comstock ran away from himself. but it never says anything about running away, and there's all this unrelated stuff in the spotlight as well like the twins and the vigors and the race war that fail to coherently mesh with the context they are shown in. they're just there.

and it ends with the whole 'there is always a man, and a lighthouse' thing that's meant to come across as deepest law but ultimately a meaningless declaration. then you agree to let all the liz's kill you because you are also a comstock, which means that whether booker chose to get baptized or not was a meaningless decision. "you need to die regardless of what you did" is such a jarring conclusion in a franchise that had until then had the pivotal axis being 'you don't have to be the monster you were made to be, anyone can choose to be a better person'

>If they have a giant machine that can almost permanently remove Liz's tear fuckery powers then why did they ever bother with the combination Siphon/prison tower in the first place?
wasn't the point that comstock wanted to brainwash Liz into becoming his tool of conquest, and trying to remove her powers was something he did upon decided she'd been too tainted by Booker to succumb to the brainwashing anymore?

he was probably meant to be like Fontaine at the end of bioshock 1, just overdosed on vigors rather than plasmids. one might imagine that the bird suit was also helping to hold his body together and keep him from going full tetsuo

it was meant to be a chaotics thing. only on that specific baptism on that specific day were all the variables just right to turn Booker into the hurricane called Comstock. any other time or place, something stops him from becoming Comstock