Dungeon crawlers aren't real RPGs

Thanks. I can play on my desktop instead, but Grimlock looks like the perfect game to play in bed at night.

I'll look at M&M. Make a thread and post it here, I'll come join.

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>but Grimlock looks like the perfect game to play in bed at night.

It is a great game to play at night

But even with a mouse, getting those last minute inputs is hair raising.

>Why should we listen to him, he's done nothing noteworthy?
>Well, what have you done that means we should listen to you
>WOW NICE AD HOM GUY, GREAT ARGUMENT

Fuck off retard.

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/vr/ has a link to Might and Magic 1-8 along with Homm1-4. I would suggest starting with MM6 or MM3.

Whoa, way to show how much of a retarded brain you have.

He's right.

made a thread like someone did yesterday that got traction

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>Literally proving his arguement
>Get aload of.this guy .png

What a fucking loser

He's not saying you should listen to him, he's saying you shouldn't listen to Sawyer.
It's like saying "Man, you can't draw" to someone who can't draw and then having them flip their shit and demand you draw something better.
He's 100% right, Sawyer is trash.

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This makes me angry.

Who is this retard you're talking about?

Dude was a designer on IWD you tard.

Nice samefag.

Yes, but when your point is "You shouldn't listen to him, he's done nothing noteworthy", it raises the question of why we should listen to you unless you've done something noteworthy.

It's nothing like the example you gave. It would be like calling someone a shit artist because they can't do something, then praising yourself as a great artist and getting all offended when someone asks if you can do that thing, then getting indignant and acting like they're in the wrong for asking.

Sawyer's a bit of a dickhead in real life, but I'm not looking to be the guys friend, I don't care about his political beliefs, or his favourite meal, or how long his dick is, all I care about is if the stuff he works on is good, and from my experience, it is.

*web designer

>all I care about is if the stuff he works on is good, and from my experience, it is.

lmao kill yourself

Even hardcore Obsidiots have a hard time liking it

He's not telling you to formulate an opinion based on anything, he's just telling you to use your common sense, I think it's fair to say that any rational and reasonable creature should use their common sense to decide whether or not to exalt the opinions of other people. Now, you have determined that that the stuff Sawyer has worked on is good, I'm not sure what specific stuff you're referring to and I'd like you to enlighten me as to what constitutes good work for you. Stomping your feet and screaming "who are you to tell me to use my common sense!" isn't really much of a defense of Sawyer.

>it raises the question of why we should listen to you unless you've done something noteworthy.
No it doesn't you fucking inbred. It has nothing to do with me and everything to do with the powers that be, these "RPG makers". Sawyer is a fledgling in comparison to those he works with, so I'm not sure why he feels he has any authority on what makes an RPG.

at least he fixed the boobplate

Congrats faggot

>wikipedia
Hes credited as a designer in game.

based Sawyer

tl;dr: Because he sucks at getting women in real life, he wants his characters to be as big of losers as he is

>M-muh Wiki
See those little boxes that have 4 and 5 in them? If you click on them you will get a source to this claim. If you had use the intelligence God gave you to go and check, you'd see that the first reference is an interview where Josh himself says he was a Web Designer and got the job as a Web Designer using his skills in Flash.

>it raises the question of why we should listen to you unless you've done something noteworthy.
This is false. Every argument stands on its own premises. The person stating the argument is irrelevant, and referring to them in an attempt to validate your own counter argument in any way is fallacious. Please, at least pass an elementary course on this subject before talking about things that are way over your head.

That's not even an issue with romance in games, that's because he's a retard who can't write. If you choose to make romance static instead of dynamic, then that's your problem.

And like the liberal cuckold he is, he only has snark while tearing down others that try while he does nothing to solve the thing he considers a "problem"

It's the consensus of armorers that if you ever get into melee you should be wearing a fucking helmet.

Yeah, because that's the only game he's ever worked on, right?

And PoE is fine, go back to RPGcodex retard, pretty much every single thread of it these days agrees with that, bar annoying backer NPC's and a few complaints that also apply to every single classic RPG in a similar style.

>He's not telling you to formulate an opinion based on anything, he's just telling you to use your common sense, I think it's fair to say that any rational and reasonable creature should use their common sense to decide whether or not to exalt the opinions of other people.

How is
>No, don't listen to him because he hasn't done anything worthwhile
Common sense? And if it's common sense, why should we listen to that user if he hasn't done anything worthwhile?

I'm referring to
>IWD
>NWN 2
>Fallout:NV
>PoE

Too, though the last one does have flaws.

But user, why should we apply a different standard to your opinions than those of other people? If his isn't worthwhile because he hasn't worked on anything noteworthy, why is yours worthwhile despite your similar lack of having done so.

That fallacy does not at all apply. His entire criticism contradicts itself, by its nature.

Ignoring that it's outright false, and he has worked on several large scale projects, the idea that we shouldn't listen to him because he, in that anons opinion hasn't done anything noteworthy implies that you can only have a good opinion if you've done something important.

This, as I said, raises the issue of how this opinion can be considered valid if that user also hasn't done something important.

I didn't answer criticism with criticism, I applied his argument to the logic he stated within it, and it didn't hold up.

Keep trying though, maybe another few words you don't really understand will make you right.

I liked Grimrock but I got stuck somewhere and dropped it like a fuccboi. Should pick it back up again. I never played a game like it previously and I was surprised how much I liked it. I also have the second one.

They're boring.

>cuckold is this mad

>The person stating the argument is irrelevant,

Did you even read the chain you're replying to? The user I'm arguing against said "No, his argument isn't valid because he hasn't done anything noteworthy in his career". I pointed out that this is retarded logic, because if we apply it to the person who posted it, it's a complete contradiction, because his argument similarly holds no value.

Try to refrain from acting condescending if you lack even basic reading comprehension though, retard.

>I have no argument

>go back to RPGcodex retard,

That site has plenty of morons like yourself that suck the dick of anything Sawyer is apart of. So no thank you.

>that also apply to every single classic RPG in a similar style.

You are a fucking retard, lmao. Name a CRPG that has these problems:

>game was so embarrassingly written by Sawyer it forced Chris Avellone to leave Obsidian in disgrace
>one of the blandest fantasy settings ever because obsidian wanted to play it safe because they were close to bankruptcy
>stupid lore (rich fantasy niggers. elder scrolls pls go)
>unnatural dialog that just lore dumps at you
>boring companions (the priest guy seemed kind of interesting) that don't interact with the world like they did in Baldur's Gate 2
>don't know what kind of wacky tobacky they were smoking when they made the stats for the characters
>"Balanced" skills and spells makes combat boring
>trash mobs as far as the eye can see also you get no xp for killing them
>MMO style weapon design where nothing is unique like BG2 and instead are just FOUR STAM FOUR STRENGTH LEATHER BELT
>typically buggy Obsidian release (they're seriously at patch 3.00)
>no mod tools

Except if you actually played the game you would see that hes credited both as a web designer and a designer in the credits.

You would think that considering that you retards make this same thread every day you would at least know what you're talking about

lmao, you've been so mad at Sawyer you've been posting this copypasta for a year now

I can't tell if you have autism or can't let a joke go, but either way lmao you fucking cuck, end yourself

>lashing out like a caged animal because your shitty fallacy gets pointed out
Just take the hit to your ego and try better next time. Your hysterics are completely unwarranted.

And IWD is little more than a glorified dungeon crawler.

You're trying to deflect attention away from the problems in your argument by pointing at the problems in somebody else's argument. Again. After it was just explained to you why this was wrong. People like you should be put down, you'll never learn how to act like an upstanding human being.

Are you suggesting Sawyer is lying in that interview?

how does this make you feel

apologies, forgot my image

>That site has plenty of morons like yourself that suck the dick of anything Sawyer is apart of. So no thank you.

Well shit, seeing as almost every PoE thread has people like me, I guess you should probably stop posting here too.

And as for your pasta, sure, I'll give it a shot
>game was so embarrassingly written by Sawyer it forced Chris Avellone to leave Obsidian in disgrace

Not actually a criticism of the game.

>one of the blandest fantasy settings ever because obsidian wanted to play it safe because they were close to bankruptcy

Are you arguing that forgotten realms, or "yeah just put in literally every fantasy creation ever" isn't bland?

>stupid lore (rich fantasy niggers. elder scrolls pls go)
>it's stupid because I don't like black people :^(

>unnatural dialog that just lore dumps at you

All of them bar maybe PS:T, and it still has elements of it.

>boring companions (the priest guy seemed kind of interesting) that don't interact with the world like they did in Baldur's Gate 2

Once again, most of them.

>don't know what kind of wacky tobacky they were smoking when they made the stats for the characters

Yeah, because "just put stats in these two things exclusively, and only maybe 5 or 6 stats are useful ever" is so much better.

>"Balanced" skills and spells makes combat boring
"It's boring" isn't a criticism, because it's just your subjective opinion. I can easily counter it with "It's not boring" or "they're all boring".

>trash mobs as far as the eye can see also you get no xp for killing them

The xp decision was a strange one, sure, but literally every RPG has trash mobs. Not even just CRPG's, but every RPG.

>MMO style weapon design where nothing is unique like BG2 and instead are just FOUR STAM FOUR STRENGTH LEATHER BELT

Please, tell me more about how BG2 was more unique than that on average.
You're one of the more autistic fuckers talking about this game, you know that? You've been posting this shit for like a year.

Nice reading comprehension. He started as a web developer and later became a developer.
>Eventually, a position opened up on the Icewind Dale team. I did area design and most of the unique weapon design.

>pointing out how you're wrong means you're mad and are actually wrong

Nice.

But I'm not, are you retarded? My entire argument is pointing out the contradiction in his. I'm not saying it's a valid criticism, and if you honestly think I am, you really should stop posting, and go work on your reading comprehension.

Lmao retard

Anyway.

It's called nostalgia bait and people fell for it hook line and sinker. That's how it was sold and people bought into its marketing like No Man's Sky.

Bragging about the game getting good reviews from journalists that have maybe at most played Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance on the PS2 in terms of RPGs is nothing to brag about.

Oh hey, it's this thread again. I'm gonna improve it.

I can understand where he is coming from if its the reason I think it is and I half agree with him.

The ting about RPG's is you are supposed to be role playing. Many dungeon crawlers have no real story and even more have no way for you to really define your character.

Unless the dungeon crawler has a good number of ways to let you define your character I don't think its an RPG its just a dungeon crawler.

It also has good reviews from fans.

>It also has good reviews from fans.

So does Fallout 3:
metacritic.com/game/pc/fallout-3

Gura Nyuutou is really the best futa artist, IMO.

Grimrock was a better rpg than pillars of eternity.

When a libcuck is losing an argument, he resorts to gay porn.

But we're not talking about Fallout 3.

Also what's your opinion of futa, my man?

>futa
>gay

Also
>Cred Forums
>argument

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I enjoyed PoE. I avoided it forever because of Cred Forums but then I got it for free and it was pretty good. Not the best out there by far but very enjoyable.

Sage is not a downvote, redditor

desu I think Durance and Grieving Mother were the shittiest parts of PoE. Chris really lost his touch.

Will you think about it in a year, though?

Cred Forums hates video games. Didn't you know that? Every game ever is bad now, even beloved classics because they were liberal propoganda this entire time.

My lowly posts are not worthy of bumping this awe-inspiring thread.

Sawyer supposedly cut a lot more of the text Chris wrote, which is why he left

kill yourself

What? I don't think about any game that far off from finishing it.

I feel bad you don't play any memorable games then

I don't agree with anything Sawyer says.

Chris was CFO. He could easily have vetoed Sawyer had he any inclination to do so. Presumably they settled this debate over content like rational adults, with Sawyer changing Chris's mind about how feasible or good that content would be, rather than your boogeyman scenario of Sawyer bullying someone who is technically his boss and can fire his ass.

I do but many times Cred Forums is completely right. Cred Forums is normally spot on in its criticisms an rating of games during the first month after release. Its normally after that point that listening to Cred Forums on a game becomes futile.

What do you think the "RP" stands for?

based

Really if you think PoE is anything but a 7-8/10 game like every other Obsidian game, you probably have a very unrealistic perspective on things. For example, I never really understood why Planescape: Torment is considered 10/10 when the gameplay and UI are abysmal. It has stellar writing, but that doesn't make up for the shitty Diablo-but-terrible gameplay.

What do you think the term "role-playing game" *originally* described?

People love Arcanum despite its shitty combat

Guess what? There's more to RPGs than the bad

A set of rules made to facilitate roleplaying.

The ruleset by itself is not the point.

Man, Grimrock I and II were so damn good.

Arcanum has too many flaws to be anything above a 7/10. Bad stat system, horrid combat, terrible random encounter system, and the obligatory "Troika ran out of money when they had to make this part" dungeons weigh it down.

Arcanum's setting and RPing/C&C isn't hot garbage like PoE's.

No, kids playing pretend without set rules is roleplaying as well, and is much older than any system or agreement on cerain rules.

Arcanum had very standard Good vs Evil tier RPing for the most part, with an unsatisfying dash of technology versus magic that was not utilized to its fullest. Really, they should've focused on the tech vs magic conflict than the dumb "Bad guy wants to kill everyone so they can go to Heaven faster" plot and fleshed out the opposing ideologies better.

Also, I think Pillars of Eternity has far choices that affect the ending slides than Arcanum, as well as the reputation system.

Well, they are called Dungeon Crawlers, not Dungeon Crawler RPGs.

>Presumably they settled this debate over content like rational adults, with Sawyer changing Chris's mind about how feasible or good that content would be, rather than your boogeyman scenario of Sawyer bullying someone who is technically his boss and can fire his ass.

You are trying to explain and do the same to someone who does not even comprehend the very concept, you realize this?

I forgot where I was for a moment.

This notion is not supported by the fact that games that sold on marketing and nostalgia change with the user score rather drastically later on, and it does not have the padding of millions of retarded fans afforded to bethesda games, either.

>You've been posting this shit for like a year.
IT is pretty much proven that he is the same guy who post 90% of all witcher 3 hat threads too, of all his dozen threads or so, he usually posts 2 or three in quick succession.

It just breaks my heart to see this kind of ardour wasted on Cred Forums, considering OP´s kind of vehemence is the usual par for course here.

He's 100% right. Fallout 1 was the first proper RPG, everything before it was either a dungeon crawler or a simple h&s game, which is pretty much the same shit.

If a game does not feature multiple ways to solve problems (i.e. quests), based on the different skills and abilities of your character, it is simply not a RPG.

Stats do not make a game a RPG. C&C do not make a game a RPG.