Will Death Stranding be Kojima's "Mighty Number 9?". Once again...

Why does Kojima not answer Hayters calls anymore?

I heard he touch Joost

>finally show what a great hack he is.
What kind of person would salivate over this like you are? Does it upset you that much that some dude writes games that strangers enjoy?

>I thought the stories in 4, V, and peacewalker were fucking garbage.

Wait, are there people who unironically think any of the MGS games have good stories?

>a bloo bloo bloo why didn't MGSV have baby sniper wold and gray fox
>why didn't we go back to shadow moses again
>why wasn't it MGSV: Revenge of the Sith why didn't big Boss kill younglings and scream at the sky

I'm glad these stupid fucks were so asspained by the gamekino that was MGSV that we will be able to enjoy Kojimas next games in peace

MGSV is a masterpiece.
Nobody seems to fucking "get it"

It's the entire meta narrative constructed by the game that extends to the player.

I've typed out my entire reasoning before and I don't feel like doing it again.

kojima's worst is leagues better than your "story" :^)

wait. they announced a game they don't even have an engine for yet? So they havent done any of the actual hard work yet?

thats like announcing a new car model when you haven't even made the factory thats going to fucking build it.

everybody got MGSV
its stil crap

Please don't go down the 2deep4u hole the MGS2 fans all did.

tokugawaheavyindustries.com

can someone tell me what this is?

Apparently it's about a squinty naked hillbilly who collects USB drives

The thing that differs this from MGSV is that there aren't nearly as much expectations, story is basically speculation, and its a fresh new IP. Maybe what he does with this requires an open world unlike MGS did meaning it would work better.

If Kojima was an actual filmmaker, he'd seen as a hack moron and rightfully so.

At worst a Stephen Sommers, at best a Zack Snyder.

He did. It will be something like a cross between The Last of Us and The Division.

Thats because fukushima didnt write them the real genius behind mgs

No one wanted a "meta narrative." The trailers showed what looked to be Big Boss giving into all his anger and becoming a non-redeemable villain, so that's what we expected.

I've been saying this for years, Kojima seems like the type of guy who got lucky, his mind is fading and now he just comes into work 3 hours late, comes in all cheerful, calls a meeting and proceeds to explain his "vision" holding whiteboard markers like weapons and making pew pew sounds while duckig and rolling around the office. Basically he has no fucking idea what he's doing, if you want to argue about that then just think about how much money he spent on some chick from Netherlands that was completely unnecessary and doesn't do anything but give occasional hate boners.

>open world
>multiplayer

literally explain to me how the fuck can this game be good, Kojima meme magic or no

>MGSV had the best gameplay of any of his games sofar.
You're a fucking retard and you should go back to plebbit.

>V was so bad some retards have to make up invisible user-boogiemen in order to discredit people criticizing it

this board is a parody of itself by now

V is less complex, less interesting and less complex than 2, the one MGS game out of the original trilogy that people consider to be the worst

It's a good thing that no one claimed he was a filmmaker then.

This is Sony exclusive/funded, right? Sony gives big budgets and "whenever you want lol" release windows all the time.

>Killzone 2
>The Last Guardian
>Naughty Dog getting to do whatever it wants all the time because it's Naughty Dog

Kojima's where he was always destined to be.

>game is bad because we didn't get what we expected
I can't believe you don't see how retarded this argument is.

>hurr durr Kojima has NEVER EVER used misleading marketing before!!!

eat shit you underage faggot. I bet you only started the series around the time MGS4 came out.

I'd be interested in reading it user

you got an archive link or something

...

Nice argument pal

Having been around when MGS2 came out, it's fascinating to watch the same scenario play out again almost 15 years later, except nobody's learned anything from the last time a game that was universally shat on for not meeting expectations ended up being a cult masterpiece. Nobody saw its merit at the time. Anyone who claims otherwise wasn't fucking there.

Why does he wear the mask?

Tell me, why does he wear the mask?

If I pulled off the mask, would he die?

WHY DOES HE WEAR THE MASK?

>thought-provoking meta social commentary of the 21st century
vs
>you are big boss all along, thank-a you so much-a for-a playing my game wahoo :D

>this is what retards take away from the ending
If you thought the ending was supposed to be positive or congratulatory in any way, you're beyond hope.

The mask. Reason for wearing it. What is it?

People need to realize Kojima is a Japanese David Cage. He wants to do movies, but does video games as the medium because he's a hack and the standards of film applied to his games would expose him as such.

>he doesn't have a budget
>if the game shows that it means he is a hack

What?

>MGSV had the best gameplay of any of his games sofar.
It had the best MECHANICS. The game itself makes poor use of them. Ground Zeroes is a better example of good gameplay.

unlike cage, kojima actually makes games

>falling for the trailer meme

When will people learn?

Meshing the gameplay and story is what makes a game's story incomparable to film.
You act as if all he does is direct cutscenes and exposition.

>I heard he touch Joost
id touch joost, if you know what i mean

They first used Fox Engine for Pro Evolution Soccer and I think they still use it. It's Konami 's engine.

>If you thought the ending was supposed to be positive or congratulatory in any way, you're beyond hope.

It's congratulatory in a meta context, but when it returns to the in-universe narrative of the story (represented by Venom flipping the tape over and putting it into the MSX) the twist is reframed as being horrific

>story-driven open world game
MGS V didn't have a story

ebin maymay

>MGSV had the best gameplay of any of his games sofar.
t. started with the HD Collection

Just because it wasn't conveyed to you in autistic, oververbose cutscenes and talking head codec calls doesn't mean it doesn't have a story.

HD collection made literally no changes to the gameplay. Your "witty retort" means absolutely nothing.

MGSVs meta is just as good as MGS4s (which is a very nice reprise to MGS2)

but both are shitty as games.

MGSV was fine as a game. It was just shitty as the movie people expect MGS to be.

>which is a very nice reprise to MGS2)

MGS4 is a passive aggressive fuck you to the idiots who didn't understand MGS2

>this time he doesn't have 50+ million budget
Says who?

That's why its meta is great.

>thought-provoking meta social commentary of the 21st century
all Kojima did was rip off some book stuff and shoehorn into a ridiculous last-hour exposition, stop sucking his dick so much. that's why he keeps getting away with his stuff, the con man is supported by those he fucks in the ass.

>MGSV was fine as a game.
it poorly imitates FarCry and has none of the good sides, the indoor missions (where the gameplay actually shines) are few and far between.

Basically the mechanics were good, but they were all wasted on a shitty open world, just like how MGS4s excellent mechanics were wasted on having too few maps where you can actually utilize them. They're polar opposites on the "shit" scale.

Its alot more than that, MGS4 is considerably subtle with its subtext

>all Kojima did was rip off some book stuff

Funny, because MGS2 is literally about video games themselves which he really couldn't have ripped off from books.

pressure sensitive buttons are all fucked on the PS3 version of MGS2

>This time he doesn't have 50+ million budget.

How do you know this?

Yeah, books, who gets inspired by those?

>shitty open world
This again. Kojima stated before release that it wouldn't be packed with GTA style world events.

The levels are simply staging areas for the missions, designed to allow freedom in how you approach, and we were told that well in advance.

>He said it that makes it good

It was a waste of time and just makes the game easier to cheese. Ground Zeroes does all of that without wasting your time with bullshit like the helicopter and traveling with vehicles, it gets right down to business.

Hell if all those resources werent wasted on two ""sandboxes"" then Kojima mightve been able to tell a complete story.

>MGS2 is about videogames

Are you sure you played the game user?

Getting inspired is different from blatant copy.

Kojimadrones at full force, are you all coming from that twitch cancer channel?

did YOU play the game? MGS2 plays alot on the nature of sequels and the expectations gathered for them.

>Are you sure you played the game user?

Yeah, I'm sure it's a fucking coincidence that Raiden is an explicit stand-in for the player who has to find meaning in an experience that he's not even sure is actually happening and must decide for himself what he'll pass on to the future. It couldn't at all be a metaphor for the player finding meaning in video games even though they're not strictly "real". Kojima wasn't just spouting shit about meme theory for shits and giggles, he was examining how games could be used to preserve and pass on ideas and culture

fucking retard.

Ground Zeroes was literally TPP with less features. There's nothing about it in terms of gameplay that's superior.

You wanted something different to what you were told you'd get. That's fine, but be honest and just admit that's what happened. What we got does its job just fine. We didn't need a thousand random passers-by saying "Help, Soviets raped my goats! Go rescue them!". GTA style world events wouldn't have added anything that would have diminished your bitching.

It would have been nice if TPP did get some of the more arcadey Side Ops that GZ got though.

I can say that as someone who got the Raiden skin in TPP too, I'm not even going to bother doing every little challenge, just S Ranking everything.

What a lot of people here don't realize is that we've already seen Kojima when he's worked on his own.

That game was Snatcher. That was almost entirely him. And it's a cult classic.

I've got a pretty good feeling about this one. I think he can pull it off again.

>Ground Zeroes was literally TPP with less features. There's nothing about it in terms of gameplay that's superior.

The lack of mother base and fulton is already a plus. Its pure stealth gameplay with no filler.

What we got was poor, not fine. It's ok if you like it but its just not a good game, I'm a Drakengard fan so I know what its like.

>We didn't need a thousand random passers-by saying "Help, Soviets raped my goats! Go rescue them!". GTA style world events wouldn't have added anything that would have diminished your bitching.

MGSV could've easily improved upon the war steaalth concept introduced in MGS4. Did that involve GTA sidequests? It sure as shit didnt.

That was almost 30 years ago, though. There's a big question mark over whether he's still got the chops.

Those arcadey side ops were pretty much all there in the unrelated main ops you got between big story missions, to be fair.

if you cut fulton/mother base then MGSV instantly becomes half-decent

True, it's been a long time. But I still see the spark in him. Beneath all the abuse from Konami, all the bullshit he's put up with, I think there's still something in him.

He's been chained for decades, and now he's finally set free. There's a lot of pent-up ideas that he can finally get out there.

>mother base and fulton
I genuinely don't see how these significantly drag down the game in any way

I mean I can't really argue the point beyond that but I just don't see at all how they're anywhere near that offensive

Mother Base adds a bunch of needless considerations like GMP and base building, Fulton just makes stealth even easier since its an easy way to dispose of bodies. Not to mention how easy it is to dispose of a tank or APC by just sneaking up and slapping a balloon on it.

Then there's all the "100s of guns and items you dont need" but that was a problem that started as early as MGS3.

GZ and early MGS had it right with the minimal inventory and the rest being procure onsite.

If you don't want to fulton then don't use it

I bet you're the same kind of retard who complains stealth is too easy because he deliberately chooses to sit in the back and snipe tranq headshot everyone

> How to trigger the autismo fanbase: the post

I have played, and loved ever game in the metal gear series. Story and gameplay both. I'll probably enjoy death stranding too.

Did MGR have a better story than MGSV?

It's time to let go. I know the game hurt you, but you need to just release yourself from the shitty disappointment.

3, PO, 4, and PW all had straightforward trailers afterwards. Stop using ONE game as the standard.

Its poor design, saying the player "dosent have to do it" is just excusing the developer who couldn't be bothered to craft a coherent game experience.

The fact that its possible makes it permissible, and its a huge joke that MGSV tries to sell itself as a stealth game.

Mother Base was expected after PW, I view that as a non-issue

If you find fulton makes the game too easy, just don't use it, the entire game is built around tailoring your own difficulty
You don't even need to use the fulton to get your base to respectable levels, you get everything you need from volunteers and mission rewards

You can play TPP almost exactly like GZ if you want to, you just need to choose to do so
There is no default playstyle for it

Yes. It even did subjects like Revenge and child soldiers better.

Why waste time making up for the deficiencies of the developer when you can play games that actually challenge you? I never got this "make your own difficulty" argument, it just seems like you're trying to salvage a broken game

I say broken because if you actually play efficiently the game becomes a joke, any game that requires you to not be efficient to actually "have fun" is most likely a shit game.

>game is deliberately designed around giving player freedom and ability to accomplish their own objectives however they see fit
>GOD WHY AM I GIVEN OPTIONS I WANT A LINEAR MOVIEGAME THAT TELLS ME WHAT TO DO AT ALL TIMES REEEEEEEEEEEE

I will concede that fultoning tanks is way too easy and there should be an alternate way of acquiring them.

Except the ability to pick your own playstyle is the intended game experience

It's like complaining tranq weapons make the game too easy while exclusively using them on every mission, the game does absolutely nothing to pen you in to one single style of play

The fact it's permissable doesn't make it obligatory, just like the existence of an easy difficulty in previous games didn't make you obliged to choose it

He's close friends with the guy in charge of the playstation department so he'll be fine.

No dude I get it. I get it. He wanted to make you feel a part of something, and for that something to stick in your mind forever.
I just think it sucks.

muh strawman

Go play Thief, a game that has a limited inventory yet very tightly designed maps (which are NOT linear and force you to figure out shit yourself) then get back to me. THAT is a real stealth game.

MGS failed itself the moment it bought into modern design memes. I still dont know why it tries to market itself as stealth when its just a poor man's Mercenaries.

mgs was never a good stealth game

I mean, you can kill an ant with an elaborate death ray, but why bother? The game is already easy enough without overpowered gear.

>I never got this "make your own difficulty" argument, it just seems like you're trying to salvage a broken game
It's not salvaging anything. It's recognizing the developer's explicit intentions. "Play it how you want" was the mission statement from day one.

MGS2 was the perfect blend of arcade-stealth and action, it just got weaker from there.

>go play thief
Oh christ, you faggots again.

Because you can. Because it's fun to try.

And I'm telling you that approach is unsustainable, there's no good game on this planet without carefully balanced rules and conditions.

At best MGSV is just a "Big Boss roleplay" simulator in the most literal sense, as an actual game its useless.

>that approach is unsustainable
I don't know, it never once fell flat for me. The philosophy held true from start to finish.

But they're entertaining so who the fuck cares?

Yeah, try it once and get the same outcome as any other weapon. The most fun I had was taking on armored squads and helicopters with nothing but the default rifle and diving behind cover. But you literally have to go out of your way and pick a fight since all the story missions are just boring extractions.

You sound upset that the game didn't have a bunch of forced scripted gunfights like the earlier games

You're acting like thats somehow bad.

MGSV is early-access tier and everyone knows it, many linear games severely outclass it in terms of gameplay, story, and just about anything else.

Dishonored is one of them.

That sounds like a gross oversimplification that doesn't line up with my experience at all. Trying to get through levels with all lethal firearms and diversionary sub weapons without killing anyone was among the most fun I've had with a game.

I dunno. I don't care enough to try and tell you you're wrong, but it sounds like you had a very different experience to me and just didn't get anything personally worthwhile from it.

>a bloo bloo bloo why wasn't MGSV a linear hallway simulator why am I required to make my own fun why am I given agency by the player

I bet you also complain about the story contradicting "muh timeline"

You're joking right? Sony hired him the second he was out Konami's door and gave him a blank check because he's one of the few videogame writers/directors that is a household name.

I already said MGSV has a decent story but fails as a game.

You want a good open world game that actually does make full use of "player agency"? GTA. And so many roguelikes.

MGSV fucking wishes it was on that level, the best you can do in that game is bully static Ai and collect bullshit items. Oh but tell me what I'm missing from this awesome gam!

>play previous game in a series
>used to certain thing
>new game does't have said thing
>"it's your fault for expecting thing"

>GTA
>full use of player agency
>player agency at all
o i am laffin

>This is Sony exclusive/funded, right?
I don't actually think it is. Kojima talked about PC in relation to Death Stranding. Doesn't sound like it'll be an exclusive, and I have doubts on it even be a first on playstation.

Oh, so you're upset a stealth game didn't have forced action setpieces? Eat shit

I bet 20 bucks that OP will buy this game day one

Metal Gear was never a pure stealth game. The tagline is "Tactical Espionage Action" for a reason.

Yeah, and can you honestly defend that fucking awful communications tower setpiece from MGS1?

MGSV allows you to pick and choose your battles, but I know that having agency is fucking scary to you because you want a moviegame

>have agency
>wipe the floor with the shitty AI
>lol this game is cheesy
>b-but you're not playing it right!

No, I'm saying that if you deliberately choose the babby easy weapons and choose to play the game like a scrub, you have only yourself to blame

You're the one being autistic and refusing to acknowledge there is more than one way to play the game, which is clearly why you love scripted setpieces

>yfw she's in it

Since there's no standard to which to play the game, any asshole can say their way is the best way.

And in all honesty, this problem can be solved if a certain someone actually bothered to design their game. This is why GZ is superior, it has a clear direction.

Low budget is always, ALWAYS better when in the hands of experienced or dedicated developers.
It means they actually have to try.

Death Stranding is Silent Hills, all you shills falling for the curtains in front of the window are nub as fuck.

MGSS is certainly thought provoking.
It makes me think about why the fuck Kojima couldn't finish the game on such a budget.

Metal Gear was about a lone agent outnumbered and outgunned behind enemy lines. Your equipment was limited to reflect this. You didn't get heavy armor or riot shields. You were then given scenarios to test your skills with these limitations. V, by comparison, is throwing you in a sandbox and telling you to go nuts. Which is completely fine and a valid game choice, but the fact you can just completely drive around a guard post instead of being forced to infiltrate it just isn't Metal Gear.

>direction
>I need to be told what to do

again, you want your hand held lmao. Go play last of us

It's not literally Silent Hills, that game is dead and buried, but it's almost a certainty that it will include some ideas and concepts from it since Kojima, del Taco, and Reedus are all involved

>So they havent done any of the actual hard work yet

That doesn't mean much for video games. Once they find an engine they'll just convert the assets and be done.

>writes nonsense stories

This isn't bad, the nonsense stories are half the reason I like Kojima's work.

I was so fucking pissed I kept waiting for Raiden to die & we'd switch to Snake

>I bring up GZ in context of it being a well directed game
>somehow this translates into hand holding when GZ is clearly not a linear game

retardo, again play Thief if you want to see how its really done

Threadly reminder that if you're jaded enough to think that GZ was a better game than TPP you're objectively wrong. I'm stuck here forever so I might as well blow my time schooling shitheads that think contrarian views are going to make them a more creditable fan or some shit.

I've played every single game and there's nothing I hate more than the people that fell for the trailer meme and got butthurt they didn't get to act out their "demon fantasy" seeing Naked go nuclear, and people who jumped on the Naked Snake hate train because of it. If you seriously didn't see this coming you're either dense as fuck or didn't pay any attention to any of the previous games where kojima purposefully fucks with your perspective of what the games going to be before it came out. (2, parts of 3, and 4).

I've seen dumbasses try to explain how Naked really did turn into a demon/villain because he "abandoned venom to do his dirty work" when he had no idea he existed untill he woke up only 1 month prior to venom.

>Inb4 no such thing as a wrong opinion
Thinking GZ was a better game than TPP is the only wrong opinion you can have.

>rambling about the story as if thats what anyone mentions when discussing how GZ is better than TPP

you put alotta effort into saying nothing at all

I'm saying GZ is not a better game than TPP. TPP is an objectively better videogame and objectively better installment in the MGS series than GZ. My only point, the rest was me venting.

Feel free to try to prove me wrong.

MGSV is one of the most useless games for the saga, literally nothing in it has any purpose or explains anything in the previous games.

Oh, you started the series around the time MGS4 came out so you think the series is a documentary about autistically explaining the details of a fictional timeline.

You're retarded, it's okay, you just need to accept it

TPP is loaded with filler (most side ops and main missions, Motherbase/fulton), is unfinished, and its gameplay is poorly balanced to the point where any option is viable yet it wants you to take ranking seriously. The best modes of the game (Subsistence) are locked into a handful of missions.

GZ has none of those things, and even better directed cutscenes. Its the same game WITHOUT the bullshit, which is all it should've been.

>I've seen dumbasses try to explain how Naked really did turn into a demon/villain because he "abandoned venom to do his dirty work" when he had no idea he existed untill he woke up only 1 month prior to venom
But that's literally what happened, user. He co-opted Zero's plan for Venom and used it to his own ends, with Ocelot's help.

I agree with literally everything else in your post, but that seems like a really weird oversight to make, especially given how on point you are with everything else.

You say this, and yet you've listed no reasons for how it's a better installment. All you did was belittle people for being too hyped.

Say you're forced to keep writing the same story for 25 years, even when you are so fucking sick of it that you actually hate it. You'don't probably be out of ideas too. I think he will do well with a fresh game, a new company and a new team. He'd better fuckin wow me though because I'm getting a little tired of it now. Just a little

3 goes back in time to literally document how Big Boss became evil, so yes it is. Stop holding MGS2 as some 2deep4you masterpiece.

Its definitely one of the most useless in regards to story closure. All we got was that Venom died instead of Naked in MG1 and that The Bosses crew were superhuman because of the prototype parasites.

The only one more useless than MGSV is GZ because its sole purpose is being a prologue to MGSV, along with being a tech-demo of the new fox engine.

compared to 3, MGS2 actually is that, but 3 is still a solid game

it story was very unnecessary though

Except MGS3's story is about so much more than "explaining how Big Boss became evil"

I bet you think the Venom twist exists just to "explain how big boss survived metal gear 1"

MGS 2 continued the MGS 1 story, with MGS 4 concluding it, while MGS 3 and PW gives information about the Patriots and Big Boss, the villain from MG 1 and 2. Meanwhile, the whole storyline of MGS V has nothing to do with neither of the games because it doesn't try to explain anything and just creates even more plotholes.
You're a dumb frogposter, it's okay, you just need to accept it.

Who will be the female role? Will he find some young hollywood starlet for the role?

>she streams it
>it's mostly her just watching cutscenes
>She still takes a year to beat it

Only one person I want :^)

>MGS 2 continued the MGS 1 story

MGS2 isn't a strictly linear, canonical sequel you dumb fuck. It's presented as potentially being a virtual reality simulation crafted around Raiden and the player's expectations of a Metal Gear Solid sequel.

>MGS4

passive aggressive fuck you to the idiot fans who didn't understand MGS2 (like you) who wanted resolution to questions that were intentionally never meant to be answered

Rubbing shit on the walls and claiming it's an artistic statement doesn't change how it smells.

It won't be joosten again. She's a literally nobody now

He co-opted with zero because he had no other choice. Naked had literally no say in the matter, zero had already created venom of his own volution before naked woke up. He didn't deliberately fuck venom over in any way and most likely felt extremely ill over the entire situation, which is subtly evident in the brooding facial expression he makes in TRUTH. Trying to rationalize Nakeds "descent" into "villainy" by claiming he was fully supportive of making venom, someone who is his literal copy in every aspect aside from his phenotypical makeup, his lacky and forcibly shoving the work on him is asinine and entirely conjecture that isn't supported by anything Naked has ever done in any other part of the series.

I'll devote myself to a comprehensive list when I'm sure I can use it to convince the shitheads I've belittled for falling for the hype that their jaded views make them an inferior fan of the series compared to me.

>It's presented as potentially being a virtual reality simulation crafted around Raiden and the player's expectations of a Metal Gear Solid sequel.
Oh, i get it, you are one of the 2deep4u Kojima apologists.
It's okay, we'll stop bullying you now.

Video games are not bodily substances. Nobody has ever made a decent shit- or food-based analogy on Cred Forums, and you should stop ever trying to do so.

She was a literal nobody before MGSV, but she still got it

>Oh, i get it, you are one of the 2deep4u Kojima apologists.

I bet you're the kind of dipshit who complained about having to analyze literature in English class?

>god the author couldn't have meant anything by this GOD YOU'RE LOOKING TOO FAR INTO IT
>I'm a retard so anyone who isn't is 2deep!

Theres a reason the game stresses that Venom is also Big Boss, not just for the self-insert meme. Venom did everything Naked would have done had Venom not existed. This is shoved in your face several times.

ignoring the fact that literally every mission besides the eponymous one is filler, the gameplay is equally imbalanced, your progression is surprisingly limited and linear for a game that wanted to give the player freedom of approach and that the cutscenes have some awfully bloated dialogue

t. nostalgia fags

>comparing literature to video games
Pic related, literally you right now, weeb

Then why did Venom rescue Kaz? Why is Diamond Dogs moving towards nuclear disarmament while Big Boss himself is stockpiling nukes for Outer Heaven? Why is Venom trying to rehabilitate child soldiers when Big Boss' long term plan for Outer Heaven was to feed them back into conflict zones?

Venom is the idea of Big Boss given flesh, the meme of the perfect soldier personified. He's meant to be a better Big Boss than Big Boss himself

Co-opted, user. Not co-operated. It means to divert or repurpose.

He took Zero's plan for Venom and used it for his own ends. Everything he did, he did very deliberately.

Venom does everything the idealized image of Big Boss would have done. The real Big Boss showed his true colors by fucking off into the shadows and letting Venom sort out his mess.

It LITERALLY spells it out at the end, you dumb fuck. The Patriots wanted to see if they could cause a terrorist attack to test how much influence they had over the public. Everyone played their parts as expected, but Snake came and messed it all up. Raiden then goes on to do some "soul searching" as the AI mockingly suggested. All of it was real.

>Venom did everything Naked would have done had Venom not existed

this may be the stupidest thing that's ever been said among the fanbase, congratulations

>Big Boss showed his true colors
Which is also out of character and extremely jarring. If this wasn't a prequel and we never knew Big Boss became a villain, people would call out Kojima for character assassination.

>Raiden then goes on to do some "soul searching" as the AI mockingly suggested. All of it was real.

Only if you take MGS4 into account, which is the anti-MGS2. MGS2's events not being real are part of its message in that you can still find meaning in fictional experiences and video games can be important vessels for passing on ideas and culture to the next generation

Venom was quite literally just big boss. The horn pushed itself out eventually and mgsv is all one big hallucination. Think about it. Nothing really happens and none of the characters are mentioned in the series again except liquid and mantis.

>TPP is loaded with filler
More gameplay is an objectively better thing, regardless of whether or not you see it as "filler" because of its lack of direct pertinence to the plot. And if anything, GZ had far less pertenance to the plot of the Metal Gear Solid series as a whole, as it explained nothing and served no purpose to further the plot aside from being an introductory sequence to the events of TPP, as we already knew about mother base being destroyed, just not about Paz's torture (Irrelevant side-point that unnessecarily explains why zero was vegetative later) and Chicos treachery (Again, ultimately irrelevant and useless information).

>Main missions/motherbase/fulton as filler
Interacting with motherbase and your soldiers is an integral part of the game and a feature that doesn't exist in TPP, which makes it objectively inferior as a game for lacking such an engrossing feature.

>Unfinished
Can't fault you on that, you're absolutely right. But its still far more game than GZ.

>poorly balanced
Thats quite opposite to a negative impact in the game, and allows complete freedom of infiltration which severely increases the replayability of the game while also giving players literally hundreds of more gameplay options to deal with various situations that are absent in GZ, as they choose. This is not an objectively negative mark against TPP or for GZ.

>Better directed cutscenes
Firstly, this is just your opinion and not objective. But seriously dude did you even finish TPP? Did you watch the fucking contamination sequence? The ashes sequence? The Sally chase? The best voice acting scene in videogame history where venom gives mercy to Huey?

>Its the same game WITHOUT the bullshit
Just because you think that everything that makes TPP an objectively better game is "bullshit" doesn't mean it is. You cannot fault a game for giving you more shit to do aside from furthering the plot, all of which doesn't exist in GZ at a;;, Its all entirely optional.

Now see you would have a point if 2 was a stand alone title. But as it is, it's part of an overarching storyline. 4 does not diminish 2's message at all., but the VR theory has never made much sense. The whole point was seeing if real life people could be manipulated by nothing more than what they wanted to think was real. A VR simulation would only cheapen this.

Are you literally retarded? All the signs are there you're just blind af. Dumb ass Cred Forumsirgin.

Pic related; it's you.

>more shit to do
>nothing that makes it a better stealth game, just a poor man's base building

His portrayal in TPP is more in keeping with his character as portrayed prior to the Big Boss games. If anything, they were wildly out of character and TPP is the only game to take remedial steps towards pulling it back in line.

>Now see you would have a point if 2 was a stand alone title

Except Kojima has said numerous times that MGS2 was meant to be the ending. MGS2 was not written with MGS4 in mind. Everything that was "explained" in MGS4 was a passive aggressive response to idiots who didn't understand 2.

Concepts such as "The Boss' will" being misinterpreted by Zero and Big Boss are analogous to no one understanding Kojima's intent with MGS2. The war economy, a self-sustaining system of warfare that continues on only for profit is a metaphor for the continued existence of Metal Gear Solid games because there MUST be more games to keep the profits flowing, as well as Solid Snake continuing on out of a sense of obligation even though he should have quit a long time ago is representative of Kojima.

>inb4 "hurr durr you're looking too far into it fag nothing means anything"

and the one on his knees is you

Smug Joost is cute! CUTE!

Yes which is why it isn't his fucking fault that venom had to go after skullface instead of him. Venoms soul purpose was to prevent skullface from killing Naked should he succeed in killing venom. and hopefully succeed in killing skullface himself. He was forced to seperate from venom to prevent Skullface from learning of his existence, which is the entire reason he needed ocelots aid to escape unknown in the first place. Aiding venom in defeating skullface by being a redundant tag-along would have completely ruined the game and made zeros efforts to create venom in the first place entirely meaningless. He did not deliberately choose to have Venom go after skullface, Zero did. Naked was forced to go into hiding because of this, not "Fuck off into the shadows to let venom sort out his mess", which is a "mess" he didn't even fucking create or ask for himself.

Then prove me wrong, faggot.

Protip: You can't.

/rekt

in so many ways MGS2 is the actual ending to MGS, the rest is DLC

That's ridiculous. Kojima made games with lots of story that impressed me as an 8 year old, no chance he will make a mistake.

And who gets all the glory?

Worst part is he let it get to his head. He genuinely thinks he's god.

Fuckojima.

>All of it was real.

>Rose appearing out of nowhere in the same clothes as the AI Rose, alluding to the pregnancy revealed by the AI Rose, was real
>Snake, who had last been seen jumping into the sea to chase after RAY also appearing out of nowhere just to tell Raiden not to think too hard about it was also real
>The AI who were manipulating the truth the entire game are surely going to tell me their entire plan for no reason. I'm certainly not going to wonder if there's a reason that the real Solid Snake, in full gear, appeared inside Arsenal to guide me and act as the voice of reason conveniently at the same time that the AI was glitching.

>actors no one cares about
>fan favorite from one of the most viewed burgerstan tv shows of all time (which is still airing)
nigga what

That's why I said the only reason people accept it is we've seen the original games. It those didn't exist, BB became some coward out of nowhere and everyone would be out for Kojima's blood.

>one guy spams fukushimas name sometime in 2015
>suddenly everyone thinks its legit

Let me put it into smaller words so you can wrap your head around

Intentionally disappointing is still disappointing.

The reason its out of character is because the idea that he deliberately "abandoned" venom is a delusion made up by jaded fuckheads that are mad they didn't get to "go nuclear. Read This is so fucking wrong. In the three games Naked featured in, his character was exactly the same as in MGSV, which goes to enforce the fact that Venom is an exact copy of Naked made to keep skullface from pursuing the real naked. They are supposed to be the same for a fucking reason. Pay attention to the damn games. There is no "back in line." Naked snake has always been a hero in every fucking game besides MG1 and 2 where his actions were arguably justified and not villainous, which is evident in the games themselves.

>Then prove me wrong, faggot.
>Protip: You can't.

youtube.com/watch?v=USA4so-tnuI

>Some day the world will no longer need us, no need for the gun or the hand to pull the trigger. I have to drag out this demon inside me and build a better future.

Tell me that this is what Big Boss would say

I think the game play between PW and V is different enough to the rest that they probably shouldn't even be compared

That being said people who prefer the game play of the originals don't necessarily like it because of "muh nosferatu"

Can you prove it isn't?

>CAN YOU PROVE IT IS

You first faggot

...

Big Boss wasn't forced to go into hiding. Why would the Legendary Soldier be forced to tuck tail and run? Big Boss didn't go after Skull Face because he didn't give a fuck about getting his revenge, he had more important things to do like continuing his great work.

He never gave a shit about what Zero wanted. None of his actions are because he was obliged to do anything. It was pure choice on his part.

Considering you know, the end of fucking MGS4 and how many years this scene is after the fact of MGSV, Yes. Thats exactly what big boss would have and should have said.

You fucking idiot.

You can't ask for someone to provide evidence that something isn't the case if no evidence was ever provided to support the original claim that it was true.

>appeal to ignorance

>It's just a reskinned version of MGS2

Maybe it was my avatar but he didn't seem "horrific" just hmm. Whatever and then I did a bunch of capture the tank sidemissons and nothing felt like it mattered.

>I-I have none

>how many years this scene is after the fact of MGSV

it happens directly with MGSV, before the Truth reveal and years before MG1. Kaz gives his speech to the Diamond Dogs, with Ocelot by his side. Venom was obviously compliant with it while the real Big Boss was still planning his Outer Heaven and world with infinite war.

You retard.

It wasn't a "choice". It was Naked being forced into a situation where he could either ruin the purpose of venom and zeros work by giving him aid which he wouldn't need, or using the opporunity to start building a better world. There was no fucking "choice." And thinking that Naked should have done anything but the later makes you retarded for even considering that he'd make his own comrades life meaningless.

He was literally forced to accept that zero had made venom to keep himself safe and decided not to make that work go to waste by Being a redundant tag-along that wouldn't be able to help Venom in any way by being at mother base with Miller and Ocelot already there.

Of course he didn't give a shit about what zero wanted, but he couldn't fucking change what zero had done. Why on earth would the legendary soldier help his own fucking clone, made explicitly for the purpose of keeping the most dangerous man hes ever known from finding and killing him instead of Venom, who is his exact copy and does everything exactly as he would have done himself?

"Because hes a pussy"? You're fucking retarded.

someone post the mgs4 teaser trailer with Fukushima's name in the credits

>meme image
>fukushima presence on the game means its good

By the same logic we can say Kojima actually is the mastermind because his name is on all the covrts

You're right, I saw the thumbnail and din't watch because I thought it was the ending scene at Outer heaven, which is why I made my post.

I won't deny I'm an asshole for that.

but you're not even helping you point by posting something that VENOM said that is something that big boss would have said ver fucking batum. Thats literally his exact reasoning for creating a world of infinite war, because he recognizes that the world will no longer need people like him and wants to drag out his demons to create that "better future" that was spawned by his vision of what The boss wanted. Which venom was ALSO fucking doing in outer Heaven (Not Naked, you dumbfuck)

>Trailers have nothing to do with the game
>Has no story
>Crossbow because Reedus
>No dialogue even though paid for Reedus
>The last boss is Kojimbers
>He teleports behind you
>"There is nothing of the children of staff"
>He kills you with a katana
>There is literally nothing you can do
>You will feel ashamed for your words and deeds
10/10 KOJAMMERS DOES IT AGAIN ANOTHER FLAWLESS STORY KOJAMMIES PLEASE RAISE MY CHILDREN TO CALL YOU DAD

>you're retarded
You're literally pulling a load of bullshit out of your ass. Big Boss never had any obligation to go along with Zero's plans. If he didn't like it, he didn't have to accept it. Have you forgotten the defining moment of his relationship with Zero which cements this, where he up and quit the Patriots because they decided to clone him?

Why would he respect any of Zero's plans? Why would he ever fear Skull Face? The reason Big Boss never acted is because he considered whatever was going on with Venom to be beneath him and his grander schemes.

You don't understand any of this half as well as you think you do, and calling me retarded doesn't make you any more convincing.

What if Death Stranding just turns out to be the ending to MGS5

Every game for Kojima's last 3 games is his "mighty number 9"

He just keeps getting worse

There's a pretty big line between B rated action movie script and deviantart fanfiction tier garbage that Kojima has been writing for a while

After he left the writing team the story turned shit

You honestly think that's a coincidence?

>Someone else find evidence for me
The image doesn't exist if it does find it and I will apologize and admit I was wrong

You're the one pulling bullshit out of your ass by assuming Naked feels that whats going on with venom is beneath him. Venom was naked's best soldier and closest of his team at MSF. This is fucking established IN GAME.

>Why would he respect zeros plan?
Its not about respecting his plans you fucking idiot, Thats not the point I'm making. Tts about NOT
1. Wasting time and effort helping his clone who doesn't need his help.
2.Making said clones new life, which he had no control over, meaningless by doing so.

The reason Big boss never acted is because Acting to help Venom would have been a retarded fucking decision over letting his most trusted companion live as the legend he admired, which is why you're retarded for thinking otherwise.

>Ground Zeroes
>Good gameplay

Kek. This meme always gets me

>MGO tier clunky movement
>No cardboard box
>No other outfits for Snake
>Only one map, smaller then TPP MB
>No optional buddy's
>Only a few weapons
>No weapon customization
>No fulton
>Not even a single boss fight
>40 fucking dollars for it

Ground Zeroes was fucking dogshit, anyone who defends it is a retard still upset that TPP wasn't "muh revenge of the sith plot" and needs to be shamed

loved tpp, it was the only full price game i bought close to release and finished in 2015. i loved the story elements that were there, wished there was more. i ignored the mp features almost completely. i stopped playing because I was all-powerful and gimping myself made me feel inadequate skillwise after awhile

Holy fucking shit this. God damn dude I love you. Screencapping this so hard.

This.
Ground Zeroes is TPP with even less content.

Don't bother he was there for part of MGS4's development time but left in 2006 so I'm not sure how much he had to do with it

Which is why his name is in one of the teasers (It is)
youtube.com/watch?v=NaeYAW89a3M&feature=youtu.be&t=8m9s

So I'm at least partially wrong

>The image doesn't exist if it does find it and I will apologize and admit I was wrong

Nobody is saying it was a better game content wise. It's still nothing more than a prologue. The idea is it was a better direction than what V went with. Having no fulton and no buddies, for example.

Why do people hate Kojima so much? Did none of you grow up playing MGS1-3?

Just seems like a lot of you want to have fun circle-jerk hating something because it's easier.

...

he asked for an image

There are shitheads on Cred Forums that believe, and I'm quoting many of them directly, that "GZ was a better game than TTP".

Which is wrong AF, and I agree entirely with the guy you replied to, and agree that GZ had a much more promising direction, but I attribute that entirely to it being a tech demo and not a full game. Have this (You) for compensation.

GZ is a great level but it's sort of the Act 1 of MGS4 sold separately for 40 dollars.

It's the only fun stealth section of the entire game(including TPP as a whole thing) that shows great promise for what could be an amazing experience but it shits itself by becoming garbage immediately after.

Just read the post

Like i said I am partially wrong

Because Kojima can only spit in your face so many times.

Face it, Kojima has been shitting on his fanbase for a long time and reveling in the fact he makes money off it. Guy probably loves the smell of his own farts.

this

mgs1-3 were great and so were the zoe games.

People just like hating on him because his latest games have been lackluster.

GZ is a better mission than any mission in TPP.

>Only one map, smaller then TPP MB
And yet that map was better designed than the whole gorillion miles in TPP.

Level design is so shit in TPP that it doesnt matter how many stuff can you do, you never need it because the levels are shit.

>Not even a single boss fight
Oh yeah, what great boss fights TPP had

>muh bigboss dindu nuffin
Holy shit, man, how can you be this deluded? He literally overlooked one of his most trusted men being mind wiped and brainwashed and robbed of any trace of his own identity so he could be a carbon copy of himself. The Big Boss portrayed in MGS3 and PW would have fucking done whatever he could to fight against that if he genuinely gave a shit. If you can't see that, there's no hope for you.

>Including TPP as a whole game.
Dude. Don't fucking lie to me and say you didn't have fun sneaking around the oil field, sneak sniping bitches in the jungle, sneaking around a gorgeous mansion just after said jungle, and shitting on doomers with your sniper from atop the silos in the afghan military base.

Don't you fucking lie to me. There were SOOOO many fun bits in TPP.

you don't sound sorry

I see it more as "which game made the most out of what it had" when determining which is better. For one thing, GZ knocked it out of the park with atmosphere and tone, something TPP lacked with its open world and day/weather cycle.

>spit in your face
I'm the biggest MGS fan on Cred Forums. I do not feel personally offended in the slightest that he has made game that weren't as good as his old ones.

People like you have serious mental illnesses and show obvious signs of psychopathic tendencies.

>Camp Omega is better designed than anything in TPP

this is such an abstract meme I'm forced to assume Cred Forums is parroting itself at this point and will probably never comprehend game design

Nice counter argument.

>So he could be a carbon copy of himself.
He had no choice in it retard, Zero made Venom before snake woke up.
>Overlooked one of his most trusted men being mind wiped
He had no fucking choice you god damned idiot. Acting revenge on zero for that instead of letting Venom live as the legend he admired while under Naked is fucking retarded and so are you.

>The Big boss in MGS3 and PW would have done whatever he could to fight against that
THERES NO FIGHTING AGAINST IT. HE WAS LITERALLY UNABLE TO PREVENT IT OR REVERSE IT YOU GOD DAMNED RETARD.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT KILL YOURSELF I'M SO LIVID AND YOU'RE SO FUCKING STUPID.

From level design to atmosphere, which includes tone set by story, TPP doesn't stand a chance.

GZ felt like it had a reason to exist, simple mission, to save Chico and Paz, but delivered in a way that made it feel like a real action sequence.

Every mission in TPP feels like a randomly generated MMO quest where you go help some nobody you'll probably never see again with a poorly written story attached that has hardly any bearing to the rest of the game.

MGS always has a shitty story, that's part of its charm.

Kojima has never failed so far, so I trust him.

meh i will just wait for the games.

Alright, if you can't admit that by releasing a game where Solid Snake is old as fuck with a grandpa mustache and having him watch Meryl fuck the guy who shits himself in every game before he blows his brains out isn't spitting in his fans faces then you're flat out just one of the biggest cucks I've ever met.

Saying "I'm the biggest MGS fan on Cred Forums" just affirms it.

basically the fact that kojima cucked us all was the whole point and the phantom pain is you feeling ripped off and that makes it brilliant because it makes me feel smart for figuring it out and you're fucking stupid for not enjoying yellow dick up your ass.

thanks, I tried to make it fit your original argument

GZ is clearly better than TPP. Freeing Chico and Paz is so much more tense and interesting than anything in TPP. Then the secondary missions are all differents one from another, they'd be principal missions+ in TPP.
Not having shit tons of weapons allows for better gameplay too. Stealing guards weapons is useless in TPP for that reason.

Basically TPP is kinda like one of these mobile games bullshit, GZ is the MGS formula perfected

We were talking about whether Fukushima was involved in mgs4 and he wasn't there for the full development cycle.

That being said I absolutely should have done more research instead of just dismissing what you said which I did do after the fact. So despite the fact that you're being a whiny faggot about it I apologize for dismissing you.

So you're telling me a man who decided to take on the entire world and try to bring about a state of perpetual total war took one look at a man who had been put through some plastic surgery and hypnotism and thought to himself "well shit, this one is something not even I can handle".

And I'M the retard.

and it sucked.

thanks for proving his point.

Dude. I am really sorry to have to be the one to break this to you but Meryl isn't real! No matter where he went with the story you would have never been able to fuck the spunky red head.

I know your brain thinks Snake not getting to fuck her again means you somehow didn't get to fuck her but you have to wake up. It's just a game.

Bmw I8 concept, I went to the LA auto show from 2007 - 2016 I honestly only seen that shit on the street twice

>Saving Kaz was irrelevant to the story and an MMO generated mission
>Uncovering skullfaces motives had no bearing on the game.
>I never saw code talker again after rescuing him.

Just because there were several missions that barely pertained to the story doesn't mean that there weren't main missions that were cohesive and had very clear reasons for existing.

Quit generalizing and re-assess the game before you start criticizing it for "filler" you should criticise its pacing, an issue that isn't relevant in GZ because its literally one mission.

The primary fault in TPP wasn't the filler, but the ham-fisted exposition that came in short bursts instead of long-winded cutscenes like how most MGS fans are used to.

Regarding tone and atmosphere, TPP allowed it to be varied by giving players atmospheric music to listen to and directly choosing whether they infiltrate at night or day, and whether or not they went in loud. This added and entirely new element of intense atmosphere that was completely lacking in GZ.

Jesus fucking christ, user, I have no investment in this at all but you're going to give yourself a fucking aneurysm if you don't chill the fuck out.

>Meryl isn't real!

That's not even the point.

The fact is Kojima knew he was writing some stupid bullshit and didn't care because he purposefully INTENDED to cuckold Snake in front of his entire audience that adores him.

Defining what Kojima is doing to explain why his games suck so much ass doesn't really define how I feel about it.

I've been over the death of MGS for a while.

I miss metal gear online

>More gameplay is an objectively better thing
Stopped there.
Adding bad gameplay in good gameplay doesn't make the whole thing better. 1 hour of good gameplay is better than 10 hours of shit gameplay and 1 hour of good gameplay.

>GZ is the MGS formula perfected

Nice meme friendo. I'll remember that one

I never felt "intense" when I was armed to the teeth in TPP. Only in GZ where I has the zero defense sneaking suit made me actually care getting into fights.

No. Thats nothing like what I'm saying.

I'm saying you're retarded because you seriously think It would have been a better decision for Naked to waste time trying to figure out how to un-brainwash venom, give him back his identity that he totally forgot and wouldn't be able to accept, and make his new existence irrelevant and redudant by letting skullface know threes another soldier just like big boss, making both of them targets.... Instead of letting the man he trusted the most be a part of his own legend, which is literally the greatest honor he could have given him... because you think Naked would be petty enough to try to take revenge on zero for something he couldn't control or change.

Yes. You're very fucking retarded.

Anyone who gets personally offended by anything in fiction is an SJW. Sorry the story gave you the "bad kind of feels" but out of all the things Kojima has done wrong, NOT letting your player avatar gratuitously fuck the chick from 3 games ago is NOT one of them.

I can't believe there's one guy over here hating MGS4, not for all the pacing and lack of gameplay and info dumps, but because muh hero snake was old and he didn't get to bang my waifu. Fucking pathetic.

The point is the bad gameplay is optional, and entirely unrestricted, shithead.

While you're certainly somewhat correct, you should have kept reading.

The stories to 1,2,and 3 were great though.
He didn't want to make those games.

>>Saving Kaz was irrelevant to the story and an MMO generated mission

Well, yeah, because there are so many holes in the entire purpose of you doing it.

See, Chico and Paz being in Guantanimo Bay sounds like a realistic situation and you have a reason for being there.

Kaz being captured by some generic Russians(that are the only living inhabitants of Afghanistan) is pretty lame in comparison.

Skullface giving an hour long uncomfortable speech is not the equivalent to a 5 minute helicopter crash scene where hundreds of people die in a sinking tanker equipped with explosives.

Code Talker talking for 5 hours about rectal maggots certainly wasnt the highlight of my gaming career.

>given player choices = 50 ways to mindlessly sleep your way through it and 2 that add artificial difficulty

>even then the game is easy as fuck

>dont use snipers because they're broken
>don't prone because its broken
>dont use any machine guns because they're broken
>dont use cardboard boxed because they're broken
>dont use quiet or ddog because they're broken
>dont play the game because its broken

I never expressed offense.

I simply said what Kojima did and why he did it.

You need to get over your vapid fanboyism and just accept that your favorite Jap was insulting you and you defended him for it.

THAT's pathetic.

Yes, and you are allowed that exact type of experience various times in TTP while also being able to enjoy high-octane excitement of going full nuclear on anyone and everything you come across.

Which is another reason why TPP is much better than GZ. It literally has more options and ways to be played than GZ, all of which allow for unique experiences with unique atmospheres chose directly by the player themselves.

>hahaha m-memed!!
Ground Zeroes has :
-Best CQC with MGS4 (less moves, better balanced) and other cool stuff like "call them" "get down"
-Best moveset, keeping most of MGS4's good ideas
-interrogations being really useful, maybe more than in MGS3
-no mother base bullshit that takes your attention from the infiltration
-well-crafted environments with new mecanisms, vehicles, electric doors, lights, prisonners
-no Fulton shit to make extractions piss-easy
-no 249284 weapons so you have to procure on site which is a lot better than SEND ME AN RPG, for obvious reasons
-C4 being useful
-no shitty unbalanced and poorly implemented partners to hinder your pleasure
-diversified secondary missions

It's the apex of MGS gameplay and mechanisms. Sneaking onto a truck to enter a base? You can do that in GZ. Not in TPP, since the trucks spend 30 mins doing shit before going to the right place.

He didn't seem to have any trouble accepting his old identity in the Truth ending. He got pretty fucking mad at Big Boss over it, as far as I recall. Big Boss could have done something if he actually gave enough of a shit to try, and you're the only person delusional enough to think he remains a good guy.

Whatever. You'd miss the point if it was 50 feet wide and had a neon target on it. I'm done.

But you're the one feeling offended like an SJW. I laughed when Meryl jumped on poopie pants' dick.

But then again I wasn't hoping and hoping for my precious hero Solid Snake to fuck my dream waifu Meryl.

>The point is the bad gameplay is optional, and entirely unrestricted, shithead.
Except it's not. Mother Base is there. To get good weapons you have to develop them. So you have to Fulton guys. So you'll Fulton them, and it'll make the experience shittier. You can't just go "MOTHER BASE DOESNT EXIST". You can do as if it didn't, but it's still there and it's still an effort to erase it from the overall design.
Sometimes, less is more.

There isn't a better auteur for specifically video games than Kojima.

Chico and paz being in guantanamo was no more unrealistic than Kaz being captured by the USSR, which actively pursued him due to his involvement in various operations against their nation.

I'm not saying skullface giving an hour long uncomfortable speech is the equivalent of a 5 minute helocopter crash. But being forced to kill the soldiers you've recruited and spreading their ashes on your face is not just the equivalent, but far more impactful. Just as seeing the perpetrator of said crime nearly being lynched but spared in an extremely tense moment of utterly brilliant voice acting on millers part was also not only the equivalent but far more meaningful.

Especially considering we already knew MSF was destroyed before GZ.

I have no rebuttal to code talkers nonsense. Biggest asspull kojimmys ever pulled.

Having a combat suit isn't the matter, the matter is being able to reapprovisionnate whenever you want, Fulton way too many people, stunning anyone using a buddy and all that shit.

MGSV feels like a "cool operator" game. It's fine, but we wanted a sneaking game.

>But you're the one feeling offended like an SJW.

Where? Everything I said has been completely unemotional and, unlike you, removed from bias.

>I laughed when Meryl jumped on poopie pants' dick.

I didn't, but not out of offense, but just because it's fart humor.

>But then again I wasn't hoping and hoping for my precious hero Solid Snake to fuck my dream waifu Meryl.

See, you use ad hominem to defend the fact that Kojima wrote the video game story equivalent of garbage that you even acknowledge is purposefully meant to disparage the series' own main characters at the expense of the audience, either by their investment into the characters or through their time spent having to watch such trash.

That's the entire point.

He even knew there'd be autistic losers like you to treat the game like its brilliant.

>TPP let's you take whatever weapons you want, even nothing at all
>TPP let's you wear whatever outfit you want, even clothing that will make you stand out more
>TPP let's you choose any time of day you want, including broad daylight
>Basically you can make the game insanely hard, easy as fuck, or anywhere inbetween

>GZ was more intense with my unlimited suppressor tranq gun and my pure black stealth outfit

Really nigga?

>he thinks anything after Subsistence has anything to do with the MGS formula

>Fultoning gaurds and training soldiers/sending them on missions/ interacting with them for quick shits and giggles before your next op somehow made the experience shittier.
What a stupid fucking opinion.
>You can't just go yada yada
Literally never did. Quit misconstruing my words to suit your argument.

Yes less is more, but just because you didn't like the motherbase aspect of the game doesn't mean it detracted from the experience of TPP or makes GZ a better game for literally lacking that feature that you subjectively didn't enjoy.

And where did I say MGS4 is brilliant, my cuck SJW? I believe I even went so far as point out some of it's major flaws and EVEN implied it deserved to be hated.

Ah but there's no way to get through to the "offended fanboy" stereotype that you embody. You will go to the grave hating this japanese guy because he successfully trolled the ever loving shit out of you. I can't imagine the insane anal wreckage that MGS4 caused you when you first played it but if this was Kojimbles' intention then BRAVO Kojima, you have manage to impress me for the first time in years.

>MGO tier clunky movement
It was fantastic the fuck are you even on about?

>No cardboard box
Yea shame.

>No other outfits for Snake
Barely functioned in any interesting way in PP.

>Only one map, smaller then TPP MB
And better than the whole of PP somehow.

>No optional buddy's
Good, buddies broke any form of challenge PP had. I had to force myself to loadout without buddies and in naked clothing to make the game remotely challenging.

>Only a few weapons
The hundreds of weapons in PP were all fucking redundant and all variants on the same shit.

>No weapon customization
Same as above response, redundant weren't worthwhile bothering. CQCing the whole game was more fun.

>No fulton
This isn't a negative, this is the biggest positive argument for GZ.

>Not even a single boss fight
No boss fights is better than the fucking abominations of the Skulls and that terrible fucking Sahelantropus fight.

>40 fucking dollars for it
Not gameplay related.

Well yeah if you cheese the game by Fulton everything and using your OP buddies (Entirely optional btw) then you're gonna have a less genuine sneaking experience. But the point is that you can avoid using these methods and go completely ghost like in the previous games, and in fact you're rewarded generously for it, which promotes that kind of gameplay but doesn't stifle or prevent the others from being viable, which is what makes TPP a far superior game.

>We wanted
Speak only for yourself. I wanted everything TPP was advertised as and its exactly what I got and I love it to death.

There are so many people on Cred Forums afraid of art, it's pathetic.

>Chico and paz being in guantanamo was no more unrealistic than Kaz being captured by the USSR, which actively pursued him due to his involvement in various operations against their nation.
In terms of realism, you're right. But it's kinda lame to just have him get captured by no-names.

>But being forced to kill the soldiers you've recruited and spreading their ashes on your face is not just the equivalent, but far more impactful.
No it's not, because first it's a mercy kill, second it's only a tiny fraction of your soldiers, and third, because Mother Base is fucking dead in MGSV. Who the fuck cares about their shit when all they do is spout WELCOME BOSS everytime they get near you? Give me some PW tapes, and then I'll reconsider.

>Just as seeing the perpetrator of said crime nearly being lynched but spared in an extremely tense moment of utterly brilliant voice acting on millers part was also not only the equivalent but far more meaningful.

No because we got cucked by Kojimbo and Venom Snake went full retarded "let this guy who probably knows all of our secrets and will send the whole world after us, go. He caused deaths of thousands of our men, he worked with Cipher and could redo it again, but hey let him go."

This was retarded. GZ has a simple, efficient story with carefully planned twists and pacing. TPP is a fucking mess.

Just something about GZ got me in the mood. TPP felt like a generic sandbox game no matter how I tried to dress it up.

>Fultoning gaurds and training soldiers/sending them on missions/ interacting with them for quick shits and giggles before your next op somehow made the experience shittier.
Yes it did. On the field, it gives you the incentive to stun and fulton as much as you can, because you can fulton dozens and dozens of people and your base keeps growing along with it. So you end up not caring only about sneaking but also this shit. You can't erase the Fulton from your head, it's there, and it makes the experience shittier.
Want to save a prisonner? Just press triangle. Great gameplay boy.

Also, sending them on mission is literally a single button press on a line interface and interacting with them is literally just punching them in the face. There's nothing to be done with them because TPP isn't fucking finished.

Actually I liked the Motherbase system and the Fultons at some parts. But overall it detracted more of the gameplay experience than it added in my opinion.

>Barely functioned in any intersting way
Parasite suites, defense suits, fucking BANDANA. Come the fuck on.

>No optional buddies being good
Entirely agree, but the fact that they exist in TPP isn't an objectively bad thing. They make for a lot of fun and aid those not used to the stealth genre.

>The hundreds of weapons in TPP were redundtant
Yeah if you chose to cheese the game by only using the tranq sniper like a chode. It's called having fun experimenting with new gear you pick and choose yourself. Something you can't do in GZ, making it inferior.

>WEapon customization not worth bothering with
lol.

>No fulton not being negative.
You're right, for GZ's case. Because fultoning wasn't a nessecary mechanic. But its certainly not an arguement for GZ being a better game because its a literal lack of said mechanic, whereas the mechanic works splendedly in TPP's overall core game design.

>Skulls and sally fight were bad
Shit opinion and GZ lacking bosses is an objective flaw.

GZ is an inferior game compared to TPP.

Fulton isn't cheesing the game, it just gives you a strong reason to stun enemies, which you end up doing in many cases.
Buddies are optional but you'll still want to use them because you don't want to miss out on them. They'll be fun and you'll probably have some insane moments to remember of something you did with a buddy. But lots of the time they'll make your run too easy and take out a lot of tension the previous MGS had.

Yes you can ghost (except the game forces you to take an assault rifle). The game isn't designed for it though. In GZ, there are missions where you need to get C4 and RPGs on site to fight enemies. Or a sniper to kill your target. That's good design. There's that in TPP but it's really rare, I'm talking about the "kill all chars" missions where you can still a powerful missile launcher from a truck. It's the only mission (with Kaz's one) that felt openworld btw.

>GZ is an inferior game compared to TPP.
>well designed stealth game is inferior to a open world tranq-fulton simulator
kek

>Parasite suites, defense suits, fucking BANDANA. Come the fuck on.
Cheat suit, Ignore Stealth Suit and Cheat Item

> but the fact that they exist in TPP isn't an objectively bad thing. They make for a lot of fun and aid those not used to the stealth genre.
I disagree wholeheartedly, they didn't add any fun whatsoever for me. They actively played the game for me, they told me where everything was, they took out entire camps for me, they made me a mobile fucking tank that was borderline invincible. D-Horse was the best buddy.

>Yeah if you chose to cheese the game by only using the tranq sniper like a chode. It's called having fun experimenting with new gear you pick and choose yourself.
I chose to ignore all the weapons and CQC like I said. I tried all the weapons, the shooting wasn't all that satisfying and killing actively punished you removing a core proportion of the gameplay loop. The abundance of weapons was counter intuitive to 50% of the games core design.

>Something you can't do in GZ, making it inferior.
The limitations in GZ are what provided you to think and not just loadout with a "Catch all do all" setting. You couldn't just do what you pleased in GZ there was limitations and working within them and experimenting was significantly more fun.

>lol.
It really wasn't.

>You're right, for GZ's case. Because fultoning wasn't a nessecary mechanic. But its certainly not an arguement for GZ being a better game because its a literal lack of said mechanic, whereas the mechanic works splendedly in TPP's overall core game design.
No, Fulton was 100% counter intuitive because it actively allowed you to ignore half of the stealth mechanics built into the game by simply making soldiers vanish into thin air. You never had to account for bodies being found, you hardly had to account for guards being in close proximity of each other, you just throw a sleep grenade into a group of dudes and then fulton them all away with no repercussions at all.

>GZ has best CQC with MGS4

This is fucking embarrassingly wrong

>cool stuff like call then, get down

TPP has that

>interrogation being really useful

It's exactly the same as TPP

>GZ has well created environments

It's one slightly more detailed TPP base with cages. That's it.

>No fulton shit

No optional easy to extract meaning you have to fucking drag everyone to one of the two safe zones for the chopper. It was complete shit

>So you have to procure on site

You start with a pure black stealth suit and a fucking unlimited tranq gun. In TPP you can go in with no weapons and any outfit you want, even something that makes you easier to spot. Are you retarded?

>C4 being useful

What the fuck are you talking about? C4 is crazy useful in TPP. Getting rid of anti air radars and destroying enemy communications just to name a couple

>No shitty unbalanced partners

ALL the buddy's are 100% optional and NEVER need to be uses. GZ doesn't even give you that option.

So, you all done sperging out like a retard and being completely embarrassed?

>Parasite suites, defense suits, fucking BANDANA. Come the fuck on.
Those are shit tier though. I never used parasite more than once. Combat suit is okay for NUCLEAR missions because it makes you stand out more, not useful for GZ though so not an argument. Bandana is shit, as always.

>It's called having fun experimenting with new gear you pick and choose yourself. Something you can't do in GZ, making it inferior.
You can have a little bit of fun experimenting with new gear you've crafted. You can have a lot more fun trying to get weapons on site and being forced to take the options you have rather than using any toy you want.

>whereas the mechanic works splendedly in TPP's overall core game design.
Are you serious nigga? Fulton breaks TPP's pacing. It's literally "wait I know I have to sneak here and kill these guys and get that guy but I'll have to exp my little base, let's take the balloons".
You shouldn't have to Fulton in a well-designed mission. Objective should be interesting enough for that and extracting guards should be a major part of gameplay i.e. getting them to the chopper rather than LOL TRIANGLE

>Shit opinion and GZ lacking bosses is an objective flaw.
No bosses > Shitty Skulls.

>It gives you the incentive
It gave YOU the incentive because you wanted to cheese the game. I barely ever fultoned anyone and still got plenty of soldiers after each mission from volunteers. Often my volunteers were far better than anyone I fultoned. And because you can choose to either cheese the game in this fashion or not makes for an objectively better gameplay design.

>You end up not caring about sneaking
Yeah if you don't fucking play any other metal gear games and cheese the game.

>You can't erase the fulton
But you can certainly refrain from using it and still get all the soldeirs you need, which makes your point mute.

>Want to save a prisoner? Just press triangle.
Except when you cant when theres a roof above your head and you don't have the wormhole fulton when you get at the end of the game. You can also resuce prisoners by driving them out of the combat zone or bringing them with you to your helicopter at the end of the mission, ala GZ.

>Literally a single button press.
Yes, one that you have to calculate because of the different success rate percentages and choose wisely to prevent losing said soldiers.

>Interacting with them is just blah blah unfinished.
Can't argue with you there. But that still doesn't make GZ a better game in any objective sense.

>It detracted from the gameplay.
It may have for you, but it certainly didn't for me or any of my associated metal gear fan friends. And it most DEFINITELY didn't in an objective sense comparing it to Gz.

Just because you can dissconnect yourself from the emotion meant to be felt in the contamination scene doesn't mean it doesn't allow for some intense emotional impact, which is objectively good game design thats on par if not better than GZ.

>MSF is dead in MGSV
mute point.

Gz has better pacing and planning because its literally a 2 hour game. ITs impossible to fuck that up.

>Better planned twists
Your objective and very shit opinion.

>I had to force myself to loadout without buddies and in naked clothing

Why don't you do that in GZ? Get rid of that black stealth suit and the completely broken unlimited tranq gun? It might make it actually fun or interesting!

Oh wait, you can't

You had limited ammo on the tranq and there was actual difficulty settings in GZ that gave AI far better reactions than anything in TPP.

Not to mention the level wasn't open space like 90% of TPP so you couldn't just take out every fucking guard before even walking into the area.

>This is fucking embarrassingly wrong
What's the best CQC then? MGS1, 2, 3?
TPP is the same as GZ except you don't have the call them command, making it worst.

>It's exactly the same as TPP
Not really, in TPP you'll get "we have materials/specialists here" which is useful from a MotherBase game design. Not from a sneaking MGS game design.

>It's one slightly more detailed TPP base with cages. That's it.
No. Every guard, every action is put there with reasoning behind it. There's a truck you can sneak on to enter the base. There are vehicles getting around you to force you to be careful. In some mission, a guard will come back running in the path you're taking, forcing you to hide nearby. If you go to the old village in the demolition mission, a guy will come around and you'll have to avoid detection.

It's the opposite of TPP's "there's a tent. Here are 4 to 9 guards around it. They're here." GZ is full of little events that make it a lot more interesting. Carrying Paz in the night as guards come back and lights get turned on is a lot more interesting than fultonning some random nigger and going away as the guards are doing the same shit as before.

>In TPP you can go in with no weapons and any outfit you want, even something that makes you easier to spot
TPP isn't designed for on site procuration. GZ is, i.e. you can search for C4 which would help you create a diversion and save Chico easier. Or find a sniper to kill your target from afar.
TPP is designed for "tell the chopper to bring you an RPG and fuck that tank up". Actually, forget what I've said, there's no part in TPP where you're going to face tanks unless it's a "kill all tanks" missions, in which going naked is dumb af.

>ALL the buddy's are 100% optional
I've said before why this is good theorically, not in the real world. It's a bother.

>Fultoning everything isn't cheesing the game
It very much is. You're never obliged or incentivized to fulton outside of your own desire to make the game easier, which is why its called cheesing.
>Forces you to take an assault rifle
No it doesn't.
>Buddies make your run too easy
Yes, and using them is optional, not forced.
>Not designed for it
The game is literally designed for you to be able to either ghost OR cheese the game by fultoning and tranquing everything. Just because its not explicitly designed to force you to use stealth the entire game doesn't mean its bad game design, if anything its better for allowing more options while preserving the ability to use pure stealth.

>Cheat yada yada
Still a fun assortment of options not available in GZ, making it objectively inferior.

>Didnt add any fun to me
Thats subjective. Mute point.
>I chose to ignore all the weapons
Again, mute point because its your subjective idea of how the games meant to be played.
>It really wasn't.
It totally was and you're a party pooper. Also a feature not present in Gz making TPP objectively superior.

>Fulton was 100% counter intuitive.
Operate word being ALLOWED. You aren't forced to fulton everything and if you do then you're cheesing the damn game by taking the easy way out, its not the games fault. You can still definitely knock em out and hide em or even kill em if you want.

>Parasite suits shit
Doesn't matter what you think. Its something that makes TPP objectively better for the fact it doesn't exist in GZ.
>You can have more fun with on-site proc
Which is something you can do in TPP as well, dummy.
>Fulton breaks TPPs pacing
If you ALLOW it to nigga. You never have to fulton anyone in any mission outside of ones where its an objective. The objectives are made interesting by allowing you multipul interesting ways of going about completing them.

>No bosses over shitty skulls.
Your subjective and completely shit opinion.

>It gave YOU the incentive because you wanted to cheese the game
Because the game rewards you for it, as your base never gets full and you never get to know if it's big enough or not. So you Fulton. Never fultonning is not the way TPP was designed. Fulton is there and there's no option to clearly deactivate it, so it'll fuck up your experience at some extent, period.

>Except when you cant when theres a roof above your head
Then you get out of the room and you fulton him. It's literally that every fucking time except for that one mission where he's too hurt to be fultonned. ONE. In 150 hours of gameplay.

>You can also resuce prisoners by driving them out of the combat zone or bringing them with you to your helicopter at the end of the mission, ala GZ.
You can. But why would you do that? The game isn't designed for it. There isn't anything to make it tense or fun. There are no lights getting closer to you as you carry your prisonner and try to stay invisible, and even if they were you'd know you can always use the fucking balloon. Again, the game isn't designed for it.

>Yes, one that you have to calculate because of the different success rate percentages and choose wisely to prevent losing said soldiers.
It's still no warm or interesting interaction. Also there's no calcul other than "95% success ok good go"

>Just because you can dissconnect yourself from the emotion meant to be felt in the contamination scene doesn't mean it doesn't allow for some intense emotional impact
It's not me who can disconnect, it's the setting that doesn't allow for efficient emotions and drama to rise, because TPP isn't fucking human. Camera spends more seconds looking at cool fox engine objects than characters talking or doing human stuff. Fucking Big Boss's motorcycle got 6 seconds of camera, Ocelot's adieu got like 15s. It's shit. TPP is crafted by dumbfucks and Venom contradicts the trailer literally 1 hour in.

get cancer

>This bowl has 1kg of shit where your bowl has no shit so my bowl is clearly superior.

No user, more crap tacked onto a game doesn't make it better.

>Why don't you do that in GZ? Get rid of that black stealth suit and the completely broken unlimited tranq gun?
Because I actually don't need to do that to have fun. Level design is good and it's not too OP, I dont have a fuckton of bullets and a chopper to reapprovisionnate so I'll use them more carefully. It's fine. I don't need to go half naked to start feeling like i'm sneaking and not operating with my cool base and toys and balloons. I can have alone time in it without selecting one of the three Subsistence missions.

Let me begin by saying I'm not that user.
I think there's a bit of narcissism in Big Boss's choice. On top of that, I do think he's playing the smarter choice by making this decision. Big Boss at this point has become wise. MGS3's Naked is an overconfident greenhorn who still hasn't been broken emotionally. He hasn't experienced lost or betrayal as far as we can see and is even a little out of touch with current times and a bit of reality, what with his obsession with weapons, no knowledge of films and having a affection for his box. He's broken during peacewalker with the aftermath of operation snake eater. He's dismissed the title that he earned, one that he wouldn't embrace until after. He grows as a leader throughout, having had a mentor of sorts in Miller who teaches him the business and beaucratic parts of being a pmc after defecting from the us, things he probably never looked into when he was just a member of national military. Once adopting the mantle and making it his own, Big Boss has fully adopted a leadership roles and understanding the significance of that position. It's partly why a lot of leaders avoid field work. You're the head. You need to be protected for you handle the bodies functions.

But a lot of this conjecture, seeing as Big Boss' personality during phantom pain is almost invisible. We get his fun one liners in the beginning and at most we see him teaching at least one soldier what he should be doing. Which is in contrast to peace walker's intro, where even though you're supposed to be the trainer, the one giving out the commands is a no named soldier of your pmc.
But yeah, again, it's what I feel is implied and that's my from head not yours so you might disagree.

you are required to take an assault rifle, shotgun, or grenade launcher as a primary. so you are some what wrong. also it's moot point not mute point

>Extra tranq ammo is pretty common
>Suppressor never breaks
>Best way to get S rank is to haul ass and tranq everyone in your way
>Go on Cred Forums and claim otherwise

Did you even fucking play GZ?

>Extra tranq ammo is pretty common
There's like 2-3 boxes in the entire compound, and they change location based on difficulty.

>Suppressor never breaks
Neither does infinite resupply of suppressors in TPP. Oh yea for that fully automatic tranq pistol too.

>Best way to get S rank is to haul ass and tranq everyone in your way
Best way to get S rank in TPP is to literally get spotted, hold the initial alert for the whole mission and finish it as fast as possible.

>Go on Cred Forums and claim otherwise
Eat a dick faggot.

Cheesing the game means making it too easy. Fultonning doesnt make much of a difference since you can play the game with basic AM (except for the dumb chars missions). The problem isn't how easy it makes the game, the problem is how it hinders the mecanics of the game.

>No it doesn't.
Yes it does. Try to deploy naked. You can't.
It's not much of a problem. Just empty it.

>Yes, and using them is optional, not forced.
Strongly encouraged and if you use them you'll most likely fuck your experience. If you have to not use them to get a good game then they're not a good addition because even the "I CAN USE THEM" only means "I can fuck my game up if I want to" which isn't very desirable.

>design
Reread my post. TPP doesn't give you any situation where one site procuration is a thing. TPP doesn't give a shit about that, you'll never have to search around for a weapon to beat X because you'll either never have to fight X or there's nothing interesting about looking for a weapon to fight X (i.e. "eliminate tanks missions" where going naked is shit)

Its not more options. It's LESS options.

>Its something that makes TPP objectively better for the fact it doesn't exist in GZ.
It's a gimmick at best, a dumb mecanic at worst. Not really an argument.

I don't want to fuck around for hours with shitty objects in an MGS. I want good stealth and great ideas. Groznyj Grad and all that stuff? Good. Seemingly randomly generated generic Afghanistan mountains with tents and some guards around it? Bad.

>Your base never gets full
Wrong as fuck. My base was full rather quickly even without frequently fultoning people.
>Never fultoning was not the way it was designed
Neither was fultoning everyone and cheesing the game. Once your base is full (Which happens frequently, I have no clue why yours didn't), you opt out of fultoning naturally anyway.
>Theres no option to deactivate is.
Yes there is. Not fucking using it. Just because theres no "No fulton" button doesn't mean the games shit. And fultoning doesn't fuck up any of TPPs stealth experience at all unless you use it far too often, which it seems you've done in your own playthrough.

>Then get out of the room and fulton him, its that every time.
It might have been that way every time for YOU because you opted to fulton them every time instead of rescuing them the other ways because you favor the easy way out like a cheeser.
>Theres nothing to make manual recscue fun because its not designed for it.
confirmed having not sneaky beaked prisoners out of their hidey holes past guards. Theres PLENTY of incentive to do it however you want because the game is designed around letting you do it however you want.

>Still no warm or interesting interaction
To YOU maybe with your poor tastes. And you clearly didn't participate in either the online missions or the particularly hard ones. Also don't forget the actual deployment quest-line that gives you unique schematics.

>Its not me who can dissconnect
ITs literally you disconnecting yourself from the soldiers you've recruited and didn't interact with using different gadgets because you didn't find any meaning in it. You can spend all the time you want dicking around with mother base soldiers. It really helps you connect, but you clearly didn't experience that because of your subjective view.

>Nakeds motorcycle blah blah ocelot
No clue what point you're trying to make.

Your shit opinion will probably give me cancer though ;]

>I don't need to because I like being forced to play a very specific way instead of having it as an option with even more possibilities

Ok

I like how you managed to backpedal from sucking Kojima's cock to acting like you're the one who called him on his shit while mindlessly attacking anybody who points his shit out like the rabid fanboy you are.

You can play Skyrim a million ways right doesn't change the fact that all of them are shit

>Wrong as fuck. My base was full rather quickly even without frequently fultoning people.
Mine started being full at the end of Chapter 2. Good job, guys.

>Just because theres no "No fulton" button doesn't mean the games shit
Not alone. But yes it's bad that the game was designed around fulton (NPCs hit you on the head with FULTON THAT GUY and level design is clearly not based on carrying guys around). Not being able to turn Fulton off clearly is just the tip of the iceberg.

>And fultoning doesn't fuck up any of TPPs stealth experience
Yes it does. If you start thinking "how can I use my cool balloon on these guys" rather than how to sneak and complete objectives, there's a problem.

>It might have been that way every time for YOU because you opted to fulton them every time instead of rescuing them the other ways because you favor the easy way out like a cheeser.
Game isn't designed for saving prisonners without fulton. It's just not. There's no benefit to it whatsoever and it doesn't make the game funnier because you have to force yourself and the level design doesn't follow.

>To YOU maybe with your poor tastes
Are you going to tell me that X-X-Send on Mission-X is a warm/interesting interaction? You literally press X three times every hour so you can get money. That's no bonding with soldiers or any shit.

>ITs literally you disconnecting yourself from the soldiers you've recruited and didn't interact with using different gadgets because you didn't find any meaning in it.
Is this bait?
Are you telling me that fucking up with the game mechanics (throwing lures and nades and mags on people) is fucking bonding and fullfilling? In PW we had tapes for that and it was good because then there were actual CHARACTERS and not cheap scripts designed to go "HEY BOSS" "THANK YOU FOR HITTING ME BOSS" every FUCKING TIME
I'm out, I'm fucking out

>How easy it makes the game
Yeah that WOULD be a problem if it were forced upon you.
>Hinders mechanics
It literally does not.
>Try to deploy naked, you cant
You can pick a slew of primary weapons and either never use it or swap it out for something else. I'Ts not incentivising the player to go lethal.
>Strongly encouraged and using them will fuck your experience.
It most certainly does not, because you get volunteers if you don't. The game balances out the growth of your MB depending on your playstyle. Some people like Fultonining non stop and have an enjoyable time doing it. Some people fultoned non stop and wondered why the game wasn't fun. Like you. They're a fantastic addition to the game and it only fucking it up if you let it is a great way to make minmaxers get butthurt, which I love.

>Tpp doesn't give you a situation where on-site proc is a thing
Except it literally does in one of the main missions. Not being forced to search for a weapon is a good thing because you have to find a way to get around X which may or may not even involve a weapon, and how interestin your interaction with X with any Y weapon is entirely up to you. This is literally a core gameplay design mechanic that is what makes TPP unique and memorable.

Its literally more options, but you've seem to choose not to use them and it dampened your experience of the game. I suggest replaying it and playing around more. Its a game dude.

>Gimmic and dumb mechanics
Its gore gameplay mechanics that are literally not present in GZ. That very literally makes TPP a better game in a directly objective sense. Its only a "gimmick" to you and others who share your opion.

>I want good stealth and great ideas.
Which are all openly available and ready for you in TPP in spades that don't exist in GZ.

>Randomly generated
lol
>With tents and some gaurds.
Quit generalizing the game. Sure there are irrelevant outposts but thats not where the core of the gameplay takes place.

>playing the game in a way it's designed to be played is cheesing
lmao

that's not true. playing Skyrim as essentially the evil protag from Mask of the Betrayer is the tits

I hate Tortanic posters

>There's like 2-3 boxes in the entire compound

So 3 full refills on a relatively small map, that's like 30 fucking extra tranq shots. Thanks for proving my point

>Suppressor never breaks in TPP

In TPP you have to unlock the unlimited tranq. You also aren't forced to use it and you can choose to resupply if your suppressor breaks or you can just deal with it. In GZ your stuck with an unlimited tranq regardless.

>Best way for S rank in TPP

Agreed. I never said otherwise, was just pointing out how wrong you were about GZ

>Eat a dick faggot

Poor little GZfag can't handle that his favorite overpriced tech demo was shit. Stay mad nerd

>It literally does not.
I think it does. We're never going to come to an agreement on that so let's agree to disagree.

>It most certainly does not, because you get volunteers if you don't.
I was talking about buddies actually. But if you get volunteers that makes the whole Fulton mecanic pointless and it takes you out from the sneaking anyway.

>Except it literally does in one of the main missions
One. I've quoted it earlier. 15 minutes in 150 hours of gameplay.

>Not being forced to search for a weapon is a good thing because you have to find a way to get around X which may or may not even involve a weapon
It's not.
You wont get a situation where you need a weapon meaning you'll never get to enjoy gameplay mecanics such as exploring looking for something or directly stealing a guard's weapon. If you have to take out a tank, it's a tank mission. You go in with explosives, and use them.

It's not more options it's less situations. TPP doesn't have anything interesting going on except for a few missions because it's all Fox Engine and unscripted and that's bad (yes, no scripts whatsoever make the world stale and boring)

>Its only a "gimmick" to you and others who share your opion.
It's a gimmick. You use it a few minutes in hundreds of hours.

>Which are all openly available and ready for you in TPP in spades that don't exist in GZ.
Not really. GZ is close to Groznyj Grad. TPP isn't.

>Skyrim is unplayable shit meme

Are TESfags still assblasted about that game? I mean it has a fuckton of problems but come on. Glad to see the retarded blind hate transferred over to every open world game

>So 3 full refills on a relatively small map, that's like 30 fucking extra tranq shots. Thanks for proving my point
You need to look around for them. Can't get the refill you want if you're far from it. You don't even know the refills are there in the first place, and they're in places where guards could easily see you, so you need to go out of your way to get them.
It's different from "0 ammo? We're on our way, no need to even call us bro"

>favorite overpriced tech demo was shit
Main complaint for GZ was the price. Main complaint for TPP was that it was shit. And it is, on many aspects, just as much as it is a masterpiece on others. This game is a love-hate relationship. GZ is smooth. No fancy engine and 2390 weapons, but everything goes well. You finish it and you like it.

>Mine started being full by the end of ch2
Mine was little over full halfway into Ch1 and I only fultoned when I found exceptionally skilled doomers or was in a pinch. No clue why our experiences differ there, strange.

>The game was designed around fultons.
It wasn't designed solely around fultons, you have other options. These options were all deliberately part of the game design and serve the stealth function in several ways.

>If you start thinking
Just because thats how you went about taking care of doomers doesn't mean thats how we all did it. Did a lot of people? Yeah sadly. But the point is that its not forced upon you to think that way, and you have the ability to pursue other methods if you don't think that way.

>Game isn't designed for saving prisoners without fulton
Just because the other methods aren't forced upon you other than once doesn't mean they don't exist. It was clearly designed with those options in mind because they're available and not completely discarded. If it were designed around just fultons then they wouldn't have wasted time animating putting enemies in various other locations for extraction. It DOES make the game more fun for people who want to use those methods, and its a GOOD thing that it allows that instead of discarding said methods..

>Send X-X on mission X
I'm not saying its the same as having a cutscene for every fucking soldier but if you weren't so disconnected from the idea that you might be sending people that love and respect to their fucking deaths it might mean more to you. Its not fervently warm, but its definitely interesting for most and can help nuture the bond between the player and their soldiers. Thats a fact. Whether or not YOU felt that connection is subjective.

>Bonding and fulfilling
No but its fucking fun, which is the god damned point. And when you have to kill the people you've had fun with its pretty fucking impactful.

>Im out
Then stay out faggot, I'm glad this game was lost on you.

Fucking this we have no evidence other that this guy's name was not in the credits in later installments. One guy noticed that and pretended this was proof of 4 and on having shitty stories.

>Then stay out faggot, I'm glad this game was lost on you
Well at least we can enjoy different things

but seriously how can you find interacting with an engine's physics fun when we had codec calls and colorful cassette tapes in the previous episodes? You probably like these more, right?

If anything it will be his best work yet without Konami breathing down his neck and since he has complete creative control.

name a Kojima game that doesn't have the same style/graphics as the trailers

You know what, I can go along with that. My main objection to the other argument was that he had no other option available to him but to let that sleeping dog lie.

He's a man in an extraordinary position of power now. If he wanted to act and prevent Venom from being resigned to a fate he had no say in, he could easily do so. He simply elected not to for various reasons, mostly because it benefited him more to leave Venom alone.

I basically agree with you entirely, but it's the fact that he did all this and knowingly let his best soldier live on as a tool to bolster his own reputation that makes me insistent that he most definitely became a villain from that point on.

>This might be his big downfall and finally show what a great hack he is.
>t. Konami

okay

yes

4 wasn't any shittier than, say, 3 or 1 in term of story or themes. It's messier of course but there are also good ideas that are erased by the MOVIE meme, while MGS1-3 also have bad ideas that are rarely called out because nostalgia or just because they're a bit more hidden.

Just because you THINK it does doesn't mean it actually does. Its your subjective and poorly developed opinion. I'm not here to agree with you.

>Makes the whole fulton mechanic pointless
It doesn't, because fultoning soldiers on the field with high stats is a bird in the hand and bush situation because you don't know if your volunteers will be good. And it definitely doesn't take you out of the sneaking in any way by NOT fultoning anyone.

>hurr just one
Yeah but the options are still fucking there.

>You wont get into a situation where you need a weapon
You do, quite often, and you can either find said weapon (Usually explosives or snipers), either on-site or have them flown in. You CAN explore and steal gaurds weapons after you knock them out. You don't HAVE to bring any rocket launchers to kill the tanks because there are several ways to kill the fucking tanks, both on the actual map and ready for you to take with you into the mission.

Its literally more options that create different and unique situations. Thats what makes it fucking interesting. You seem like a baby that needs to be spoonfed shit with scripted gameplay to have any kind of fun.
>No scripts make the world stale
Subjective opinion. GZ also lacked scripted gameplay elements so it makes your point mute.

>Its a gimmick, you use it a few times in hundreds of hours
YOU used it a few times in YOUR hundreds of hours. Quit fucking making assumptions for everyone else.

>Not really
They literally are, you just chose to ignore them because you're a fuckin baby who can't take the fun out of the game yourself and need it handed to you on a platter.

>comparing art to art
Yeah I know right god what a retard.

I'm pretty sure that Sony will throw as much money as he needs at him, Kojima is one of the few remaining game designers who's name alone can draw sales.

I'm pretty excited with where he's going with it, he's pretty much free to make it as weird as he wants.

I love everything about metal gear. And TPP was a fucking metal gear buffet. I have complete control over how I wanna do things. I'm not forced to do anything any one certain way. Yeah I can do it all the most efficient way but thats not always the most fun, as you clearly know.

Thats evident very early into chapter 1, if you keep fultoning and tranquing everyone then the gameplay gets stale as fuck. The game leaves it up to YOU to make things interesting which is why its sheer fucking genuis, because once you realize that potential you can use it for ridiculous ammounts of fun over the course of hundreds of hours of experimenation, whether it be with efficiency for score or just dicking around.

I miss the codec calls terribly yeah, and the casette tapes in TPP were way more interesting, abundant, and colorful than GZs. (Bu-but muh torture and rape).

But did you seriously just fucking ask me how I find "Using an engines physics" which translates into "Playing the fucking game" fun?

Story:
2 = 4 > 1 > 3 = PSP shit > 5

Gameplay:
5 = 4 > 2 = PSP shit = 1 > 3

This is all indisputable fact. Maybe not popular opinion, but still fact.

Rising is good but I'm not ranking it because it's literally fanservice. The gameplay and story are intentionally a huge departure and not comparable.

Have you ever tried clearing one of the longer missions with nothing but smoke grenades and decoys?

Holy shit, it's a fucking riot.

ah yes, based Japan with their men giving birth simulators and transgender androids.

Truly they are the alpha males we need and the saving grace of gaming. They definitely are not on board with the sjws at all! Despite being the ones that made being a nerd trendy/popular and providing a cosplay angle to make gaming available/appealing to women, but hey somehow they are still based!

Damn Westerners and their rolling of 20 sided dice while being completely shunned by society caused the downfall of nerdom, definitely!
Japan is so cool.

See. Shit like this. I never thought of that. But god damn it I wanna try now. This is why TPP is in an entirely different league than GZ. I'm still finding fun shit to do after 180 hours and a platinum trophy.

What other MGS game gives you that?

Heres a hint: Not fucking GZ.

story:
1 > 3 = 2 > V > PW = 4 > PO

gameplay:
V > 4 > 3 > 2 = 1 > PW > PO

whoosp would you look at that I disputed your "fact"

No it wont. Kojima is not a fucking retard like infune is.

>and the casette tapes in TPP were way more interesting, abundant, and colorful than GZs. (Bu-but muh torture and rape).
really not, and without bringing torture/rape shit, tapes in GZ take after tapes in PW and they both tell you stuff about the protags lives on Mother Base, trivias and stuff which helps to build them a real personality.
TPP tapes are some stuff about russian war, PARASITES, the Paz ones (good, because they're PW, again, everything good in TPP storywise is PW), the Huey which are okay and the Truth which are good except for Skullface. Lots of shit, some are good, none really give you anything fun or likeablee. The tapes lack life, Mother Base lack life (I'm saying interacting with physics of an engine because it's that simple : you throw a mag on a guard, he'll stagger, it's always the same and there's nothing interesting about that past the first time you did it), MGSV lacks human substance and traded it for cool Fox Engine camera pans.

>smoke grenades
>decoys
>a healthy dose of empty cardboard box placed where guards can see it
I like to call it "The Man Who Wasn't There".

I'm the guy thats been defending TPP being better than GZ in every possible way for most of this thread.

Heres my list, keep in mind its subjective, I don't have the capacity to compare all of them objectively, GZ is just easy to objectively compare to TPP.

Story:
3 > 2 =1 > PW = 4 > PO > V > GZ

Gameplay:
V >>>>>>> 4 > 3 > GZ > 2 > 1 > PW > PO.

>V's story worse than Portable Ops
Damn, man, that's fucking ice cold. I can't say I agree with that call in any way.

So you're asking me why I had more fun playing the game instead of wishing it was more movie-like like its precusors?

Because the gameplay is fucking superb? There's a lot more to the gameplay than just throwing shit at guards, and again, like I've repeated over and over again, you MAKE the physics interesting yourself by experiementing with them. Did you know if you throw a mag at a gaurds head you get a dink sound and it stuns them?

Did you know if you throw a mag near an enemy and let them go look at it they get confused?

Did you know you can make an enemies radio buddies think hes crazy by fucking with him enough?

There's so much more to this game that I truly think you just haven't been fucked to go enjoy. Would it have been a bit better if it had been more movie-like and drew out cutscenes and gave more emotional exposition in the tapes?

Yeah. But It sure as hell didn't take any fun away from the core gameplay. If they could have added more of that human substance the game would have been the best game ever made bar none, which is more than we should ever expect from any developer.

It was a fluke. Switch PO and V. I'm sorry.

>whoosp would you look at that I disputed your "fact"
No, you just posted something that is wrong. No dispute to be seen.

Also wrong.

No, I'm talking about the Mother Base thing. Where you have soldiers but they're all lifeless, do the same scripted road and tell you the same shit everytime with a few variations of "oh it's crowded now" and shit, and the only interaction being CQC or throwing non lethal shit

Why did they ok that shit

>My opinion is wrong.

no, user, YOU are wrong

it is a fact

Because its better than making the mother base empty and waaaay more cost effective than giving everyon one of your potential 1400+ soldiers their own exposition or unique interactions?

They could have done with a few more interactions with them yeah, but theres enough TECHNOLOGY in the game that you can have a lot of fun fucking with them from time to time.

Lol TPP is the worst

Lol you're a faggot.

See what your shit opinion gets you? Deserved ridicule.

>prove it
3 had the worst gameplay. It was all shooting, a clunky menu-based camo system, repetitive wound treating that got old after the first time and had to be repeated whenever you got into a gunfight, limited tech that made stealth a chore instead of centerpiece, and shitty CQC that didn't work properly.

3 also had a lame-ass story with little to no actual sci-fi elements to it, that people only think is good because it was emotional. Basically everything not involving The Boss or Ocelot was complete garbage.

No sorry. 2 and 1 had cleaner more solid gameplay than 3, and 3 and 5 had shit stories. 4 was great and ended the series almost perfectly.

Why would they go the trouble of designing such a huge MB to make it so empty? There are so many weird decisions and dumb priorities in MGSV's development. Not even going to the mission maker fantasmed mode, but why couldn't they just add a difficult / subsistence / no alert mode to every mission rather than just 2 or 3? Why put so many missions instead of a few better designed for less work and better grades?

I don't think you understand user, it is a FACT that you are wrong

it is over, end of rine

But that's correct you fucking retard

>Once again, he wants to do an story-driven open world game but this time he doesn't have 50+ million budget

He probably has a blank cheque from Sony so I don't think the budget will be a problem.

It will be the greatest game ever created in the modern era.

Sony will let him have even more money though. Kojima is by far the best Dev in gaming too, name someone with a better track record. 5 mainline games all universally praised with over 90 metacritic scores.

Stop being so salty.

I was very clear to state earlier that my list is based on my subjective opion. Which is impossible to prove wrongI don't care to argue about the objective order of best to worst game.

I particularly enjoyed the majority of the aspects of MGS3 that you have cited as flaws, and it was still the epitome of tense stealth action to me even having played every installment.

Also side note, the reasons you cited 3 was worse than the others are clearly biased and subjective

>It was all shooting
lol yeah in a tactical espionage action game, what a coinkydink.
>Clunky menu camo
Which was fun as fuck to play around with and didn't hinder my gameplay experience at all considering I don't go through menues like a child with downs. (Flying through and changing camos is easy with a little practice).
>Repetivie wound treating
that was immersive as FUCK and made my play careful as shit, and made the stealth much more meaningful an intense.
>Made stealth a chore
Its a fucking stealth game dude, if it was a chore to you at any point you should probably not be playing stealth shooters.
>CQC didnt work properly
It worked just fine, shit opinion and not a fact.

>Lame ass story
Shit opinion
>Only good because it was emotional
Big part of why it was good yeah but still shit opinion
>Everything not involving 3 of the main characters was shit
What a garbage ass opinion and poor arguement if attempted seriously lol

1-5 are all amazing games, fuck anyone arguing over any being shitty.

It's gonna be a good game that will win a lot of awards and have a story that tries pretty hard, but it'll still be pretty good.

Cred Forums will hate it.

>Why couldn't they add difficulty settings to missions
Because Kojimas a fucking hack? I don't know. Maybe they didn't think of that. Regardless its still great that you can impose these challenges on yourself if you want without losing any of the core game-play elements.
>Why so many missions
No clue. Some of them could have been cut out entirely and the game still would have had plenty of content in the side-ops and mission replay value. Maybe they just wanted to add a few unique missions that might provide different experiences since they opted out of difficulties and different modes? I don't know why this game wasn't made to suit metal gear fans. Probably because of it being such a collaborative effort and konamis incessant greed.

Or kojimmy can just be a hack. Games still fucking solid 8/10 though. Improving the pacing and story exposition would have made it the best game I ever played period.

What does his mask smell like?
hehe just wondering

>more gutless auteur faggotry
>more tonal inconsistency
>more shamelessly ripping off elements from trendy western games
>more overpaid celebrity actors to have excuses to go hobnobbing in Hollywood
>more indulgent and flattering action scenes mocapped by Joost or whoever else he clearly wants to pull a Paul W.S. Anderson on

Thanks Sony.

Once you accept that you are factually and indisputably incorrect, perhaps

>Also side note, the reasons you cited 3 was worse than the others are clearly biased and subjective
LOL

>lol yeah in a tactical espionage action game, what a coinkydink.
Oh so you're a confirmed underage who never played the games before 3.

>Which was fun as fuck to play around with and didn't hinder my gameplay experience at all considering I don't go through menues like a child with downs. (Flying through and changing camos is easy with a little practice).
A camo system that works automatically like the octo camo is objectively better than a system that you need "a little practice" to do kind of faster.

>that was immersive as FUCK
Use knife, now use disinfectant, now use bandage.
Do it 100 times.

Use splint, then use bandage.
Do it 100 times.

That isn't immersive. It's a literal chore. By definition. It would have been immersive if there was variety in the types of wounds you received, or if you had to use different tools and methods for different limbs, but it was literally 90% the same item combos after every exchange.

>and made my play careful as shit, and made the stealth much more meaningful an intense.
The older games accomplished this with the thread of death. MGS3 made stealth negligible because you were rewarded more for just shooting everyone and repeating the wound treatment routines everywhere.

>Its a fucking stealth game dude
Which is why it's so fucking insane that they made the stealth so much worse than the first two.

>if it was a chore to you at any point you should probably not be playing stealth shooters
This coming from the underage who started with MGS3, probably years after it came out due to memeing internet praise to boot.

>It worked just fine
Good argument. 4's worked properly. 5's works properly. 1 and 2's worked properly by keeping it so simple it couldn't be fucked up.
3's CQC was a beta for 4.

Comment is too long to explain why you're a retard for liking the story but you are a literal child.

Stay salty.

Once you accept that you are factually and indisputably incorrect, perhaps

>so much searing rage he's already resorted to copy-pasting
Wew.

Having unlimited resources makes stealth quite trivial

>>Best way to get S rank is to haul ass and tranq everyone in your way
That's every MGS game, except usually you don't get unlimited refills

Once you accept that you are factually and indisputably incorrect, perhaps

Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.

can we all accept that tranq guns and the over the shoulder perspective are what killed the series?

>Confirmed yada yada
Lol yeah sure man. Because you didn't shoot anything at all in 2 or 1. I get that your point is that you can cheese the game by going first person and headshotting everything but that doesn't make it worse. You can do the exact same shit in 2 if you're fast enough. Not an argument.

>The camo in the game that came out for the newer system with newer hardwards is superior.
No fucking shit. But the previous 2 games completely lacked any kind of semblance of concern for camouflage, making your point of it being a factor for "worst" mute, especially given you can easily manuever it if you don't have downs.

>Boil down a mechanic to the ammount of button presses and times you have to do it.
Sounds like you suck at the game and got shot and fractured quite often. Not a suprise honestly. Its immersive because it gives a sense of real danger and consequence to your actions. It could have done better with that by adding more options yeah, but it was certainly made MGS3 way more fucking immersive than its predecessors, especially the first one which your dumbass listed as "best".

>Accomplished this with thread of death
>thread
Firstly Threat of death doesn't mean shit for immersion because when you die you just restart. Thats not immersive at all, and in facts takes you out of the immersion because you just died and somehow came back to life to retry again.

>They made the stealth worse than the first two
Man how wrong can you be?

>Underage who played MGS3 first
Nice projection and no argument, faggot. MGS3's stealth was leagues better than the first twos because it involved more than just looking past a wall and at a fucking radar at the top right of your screen.

ooooo real stealthy and fun. What a dumbass.

>3s CQC was beta for 4's
Wanna know how I know you're retarded?
1. 4's CQC is different
2. 4 was developed for the fucking PS4.

I can explain how retarded you are all day if you want buddy just keep lining up those shit opinions.

Sure, but have you ever considered once you accept that you are factually and indisputably incorrect, perhaps

That's a great way to put it, actually. The themes and character arcs got closed in MGS2; since then the series has been spinning its wheels and delivering nonsensical fanservice.

That's not an ability to fulton every guard which means they'll never wake up

I hope you realize I'm done reading your arguments. You are literally underage. Your opinions don't matter, especially in the face of my facts.

Stay mad.

No you contrarian faggot, Konami killed the series.

>I can't counter your arguments so I'm just gonna pretend I didn't read them and DIDN'T get BTFO

Stay salty, your opinion is wrong and your tastes are garbage.

Once you accept you are factually and indisputably incorrect, perhaps

the series was long dead at that point
what about the opinion is contrarian?

lol what a pussy

it's a new game from the guy who didn't finish MGSV?

NOPE!

Except MGS3's stealth and gameplay was way better than the first 2's and you're a complete retard.

you're the type of fag who only plays with the subsistence camera, aren't you?

Yea and it was shit, you would suppose he would grow up and stop treating his fans like shit. But no.

i think it's gonna be cool

Its far superior and the way the game was meant to be played. Got a problem with it? I bet you do with your god awful taste. Have fun wasting your time trying to prove me wrong with your "facts" lol

>what about the opinion is contrarian?
>hurrr MGS died after [insert game]
The series was good until Konami fired Kojima. You are a contrarian if you pretend there was a cut off.

lol I already countered all of your arguments. All you could say in return was
>n-nuh-uh!
I won. I literally have no reason to keep reading. you have a very skewed sense of self-importance if you think I'm going to sit and fling shit with you all night. We are not on the same level.

looool so many butthurt little MGS3 kiddie faggots. Since when was it so easy to rustle Cred Forums's jimmies?

Nah, MGS3 was a broken mess with a shit story.

>e-everyone arguing with me is the same person! nobody could possibly disagree with my shitty opinion, it's all just one user trying to g-get to me!

Why can't you fags hate on suda51
He's consistently mediocre and has such a shit core fan base.

Once you accept that you are factually and indisputably incorrect, perhaps

You're still copy-pasting a response at 2 AM like an angry toddler because you got mad over someone telling you you're wrong about a video game series.
You will never touch a vagina.

I might, once you accept that you are factually and indisputably incorrect, perhaps

...

>I don't care at all guys, really, look how little I care, I'm caring so little
Maybe you should accept that you are factually and indisputably incorrect, perhaps

Honestly not him but this is getting sad. You have to have something better to do.

>yfw Leslie Benzies joins Kojima Productions.
He's the only person who knows how to program open worlds the right way.

and Rockstar let him go...

If any of us did, we wouldn't be here.

As best I can tell, he's just trying to out-shitpost a shitposter anyway.

lol I got you to greentext.

Well done, you can repay me by accepting that you are factually and indisputably incorrect, perhaps

Stop shitposting.

you only had to ask

MGS4