What the fuck is the appeal of Isometric Rpgs?

What the fuck is the appeal of Isometric Rpgs?

It all feels so clunky, slow, hard to control and generally unfun to fight things.
Why is it popular enough to warrant such a huge fan base?

I'm genuinely confused

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good dialogue, more content in general, better story

Do Isometric games really have such good stories that they counteract the horrible gameplay aspects?

>t. an actual underage

they are not horrible, just besides the point. These RPGs are about playing the story and developing your characters. Not "having fun while smashing buttons and dodging bullets"

>It all feels so clunky, slow, hard to control and generally unfun to fight things.
Only if you're a brainlet and cannot appreciate the tactical depth and challenge an actually good RTwP or TB party based RPG offers.

Besides, not all party based "isometric" RPGs are the same. For true connoisseurs of the genre, you have stuff like Pillars (RTwP) and Expeditions: VIking (TB) - overall solid party based "isometric" RPGs that offer both tactical and roleplaying depth. However, there's plenty of non-challenging RPGs and "RPGs" out there to satisfy casuals. Shadowrun Hong Kong and Dragonfall are good examples of pretty good RPGs with shallow and non-challenging encounter design that are still overall good due to great character writing. And even the most primitive brainlet neanderthals can pick up shallow garbage like any of the Divinity games.

TL;DR: there are plenty of "isometric" RPGs and "RPGs" to satisfy pretty much anyone out there.

This may come as a shocker to Generation Z children, but hear me out ...

Some games... are you ready?
Some games, are NOT about COMBAT?
Crazy, I know!

And some games have non-direct control style, "strategic" combat, for the sake of differing experience!

Faggot

I play tons of Tactics and Jap RPG games and have a ton of fun with both the story and the gameplay aspects

Yet touching these fucking western Iso's makes me want to fucking vomit

If you go isometric you have to go turn based as well. Pausable real time is meh

MC of OP's pic looks like the Guardsman from Broquest. The fuck happened to that shit?

Divinity 2 is 2017 GOTY by a mile, go play it.

>nipnog garbage
>tactics
Lmao, come back when you manage to beat tactics games with actual depth like Mordheim or 7.62 High Caliber.

People play those game for rich stroy and immersion world. Its not a place for action brainlets.

How is it comparable to the original xcom?

I wouldn't really call the fanbase huge. There's been a resurgence the past few years due to kickstarter, but even that is starting the downhill slide again and we'll be back to dead genre category in 5 years tops.

Pillars of Eternity is shit, try playing a good one.

>Autists will deny this
Action RPGs >>>>> Isometric >>>>>>>>>>>> Literal Dog shit >>>> Turn-based

Ryogo should have been the MC desu.

If you weren't underage yourself, you'd remember that the main complaint against RTwP games was that the combat felt clunky and boring.

t. condescending bearded 30 year old who peaked in freshman year of college

>pillars
>not a boring slog filled with psuedo-intellectual nonsense and mind-numbing "combat"
I guess you're the guy shilling pillars 2 every day, I hope that trash doesn't sell a single copy. I'll still pirate it several times though.

>clunky
It's just you and your childhood with a gamepad.

Its far better then Divinity the Soyboys.

Don't blame all iso RPGs for PoE's bad combat. Try D:OS2.

PS4 release fucking when? It runs like ass on my toaster.

Im 23 and im with you.
Fuck those brainlets.

>defending an Obsidian game
>calling other people soyboys

I like sRPGs.

>good dialogue
>better story
Nah, adventure games hold that throne.

I agree that PoE isn't "about" combat. I mean, it can't be, because the combat is fucking shit. But it's a shame that there's so much of it then.

Go play Skyrim cuck.

By and large RPGs are not really about combat and most of the ones that are are shitty games.

everything is better turn based. Everything

>actually defending the "combat" of pillars

PoE features the most advanced RTwP combat system along with 7.62 in the entire genre, you're just retards who cannot comprehend it due to limited brain activity. It's really telling how the only ones shitting on PoE combat are meme-regurgitating bumblefucks who have yet to beat story mode.

PoE combat was shit because Baldur's Gate's combat was shit. The game is a nostalgia fuckfest and it did its job well.

>Rpg's aren't about combat

What?
There are tons of strategy Rpg's with great indepth combat mixed with the good story

>defending an Obsidian game
>calling other people cucks

What if... What if....
Now hear me out

What if RTwP is actually a flawed combat system that should have been buried with time

>unfun
you wanna know how I know you're a faggot?

>keep isometric
>let you move with WASD
>keep abilitie keys close to the character
>auto attack when near
>use mouse to select targets
It will fix all of these titles.

what a dumbshit opinion, you cant control an entire party without pause

What if... What if....
Now hear me out

What if RTwP is a combat system that blows TB systems out of the fucking water when it comes to tactical depth and the only ones shitting on it are brain-dead mongoloids like you who cannot master it due to having a sub-60 IQ?

>most advanced RTwP combat system

how do you seriously have a worse pc than a ps4 in $current_year

So you're implying that RTwP is inherently bad? Thanks, now I can ignore your posts with a clear conscience.

Looks like a hiccup simulator. So fun.

It DOESN'T have a huge fanbase, which is why you only see kickstarted games for the genre.
But it has enough fans to justify making a game here and there.

that looks so goddam awful jesus

Is this depth?
This looks awful, why would you ever want to do this?

it is fun because you can only win by doing it all perfectly with pause. The situation is realistically hard without pause.

>advanced RTwP combat system
>t.never played Aarklash Legacy

Are there any is RPGs with slowdown and pause? As in you can choose to play at a slower speed? I tried to play my first iso a while back and was a little overwhelmed by how fast the combat moved and felt like I needed to pause every other second.

My guess is that he's on the autism spectrum.

So Dragon Age: Origins pretty much?

I agree, it's a damn good game. Does really well in making RTWP feel modern yet still retain a lot of the tactical elements, and it's structured in a nice way that not every little throwaway fight with a few rats or something needs you to spend half the time paused issuing orders over and over and over again, instead it has the more tactical harder encounters appear in regular intervals throughout the story. Keeping the game interesting while reducing the tedium.

>he thinks he's intelligent because of video games

>If it haves shitty gameplay it must have good story!

Why waste a good story on a shitty game if you can put it on an actual engaging game?

that is normal, you develop an intuitive feeling about when you have to fight harder or you can wing it without pause. It's part of the fun after you get better to suddenly realize.. oops, I actually have to try hard on this one

I unironically think KOTOR's DnD combat holds up very well and the game offers some challenge occasionaly mainly due to the fact that it was balanced manually, had a level cap of 20 and didn't feature a random loot system, unlike KOTOR 2.

PoE can slowdown the game if I remember correctly. Same with Aarklash.

What game is that so I can avoid buying it?

Kotor combat is pushing 1 button.

the expeditions games were fun

Isometric RPGs are truly the fedora of videogames

>Why waste a good story on a shitty game if you can put it on an actual engaging game?
Can you? What's the last FPS with an engaging, branching story with a party system?

>level cap
This kills all games for me. I play games for progression only, not completion. Completion kills a game.

You're fucking incurable, literally brain fucking dead. 7.62 and Marauder are pretty much universally acclaimed as the best squad tactics simulator games ever made. No turn based comes even close, not JA2, not any of the xcoms, not any of the shallow weeb trash. The reason for this is very simple: RTwP is just inherently superior to TB.

In TB, reaction to the changes in tactical environment is possible only during strictly defined moments that occur in-between action intervals of strictly set length. Both opponents are capable of reacting ONLY to changes of tactical environment that constitute a certain sum of actions usually defined by turn length, which, in turn, is defined by the action points of acting units. Since both sides are capable of reacting only to a sum of actions, they cannot react to infinitesimal changes of tactical environment like a single unit making a single step or changing his weapon or something similarly seemingly insignificant. TB tries to overcome this flaw by using interrupt sequences, but again, these interrupt sequences can only be triggered by predefined actions that usually do not encompass the entire set of tactical actions a unit can carry out.

In RTwP, reaction to the changes in tactical environment is possible at any moment during the engagement. Reaction is also possible to even the smallest of changes in tactical environemnt like, for example, an enemy unit changing his body posture from crouching to standing or rotating to face a different target.

Comparing TB with RTwP is akin to comparing summation with integration of a certain variable. Both summation and integration deal with the summation of increments of the said variable, the only difference being that you have relatively large increments in summation compared to infinitesimal increments in integration. In other words, TB is the approximation of RTwP for brainlets who cannot handle the complexities of RTwP.

Nobody plaed Kotor 1 & 2 for combat. Game was and still is top tier in terms of good stroy.

I dont think I ever seen better wrriten character then Kreia.

>Both opponents are capable of reacting
user

You're playing with Ai
They're not real people

FUCKING RETARD KOTORS WERE NOT GAMES FOR COMBAT. FUCK OFF AND DONT PLAY THEM YOU BRAINLET SOYBOY. THANK GOOD THIS RETARTED GENERATION IS BLACKED TO 56% AND SOON THEY WILL BE TOO POOR TO EVEN PLAY GAMES.

Durance is about on par with Kreia with how entertaining they are to listen to.

>the game offers some challenge occasionaly
Kek.

underaged faggot

Even if KOTOR had a higher level cap you'd reach level 23 at best on an optimized for XP playthrough.

He's right through, those sand warriors on Tatooine can wreck your shit pretty easy if you do this planet early. I think they are bugged and don't scale properly.

It is unfun like most normal humans would agree with you, thats why they are not popular and only exist in niche kickstarters and such

So Chess and Go would be better in pausable real time?

I'd play Final Fantasy 1 100 times before I'd play a fucking fedora RTwP

my IQ just went up 10 points when I read this post

>me use big words me smart
Spicing up meaningless nonsense with words you got from word of the day doesn't give it meaning.

Quick wit > Autistic tactical thinking

So smart

>final fantasy

Virgin neckbered

Really? I don't think I've ever had a problem with them. The only thing I remember have any sort of problem with are some of the Rakghouls.

The game is so simple it pretty much makes it impossible to fuck up your character and it's so linear and focused it feels like you never really have a hard time.

>he has never played actually good TB games with PvP modes that at least try to stand up to the complexity of RTwP
Brainlet.

>no attempts at an actual argumentative rebuttal
Brainlets.

neverwinter nights had WASD movement, and it sucked

>>no attempts at an actual argumentative rebuttal
i wasn't disagreeing with you though

WOW YOU DESTROYED THEM NERD

I just picked the game up on sale and it's pretty good so far.
Really though all the hard fights basically come down to using Morrigan to freeze/stun mobs and then mopping up with a couple warriors with a rogue suppressing them from range.

Doesn't really seem like any other strat is viable with some of the higher level mobs that can swarm you with 9 or so enemies and tear you to pieces in seconds.

Kinda having to cheese a lot of them to be honest... Get set up in a doorway and pull a couple of enemies at a time to stun and then smash. I mean I just finished this quest to kill a den of blood mages and there's no fucking way, at my current level, to take those groups on in open combat all at once.
Maybe I'm here too early.

it is fun. you pause, give a bunch of orders, and then watch the battle unfold

how is the single player campaign?

man I fucking loved the iso fallout games.
I don't know what was so satisfying about them.

AS OPPOSED TO FTwP ANONS WHO JUST SLAY MAD PUSS?

user what the fuck?!

>It all feels so clunky, slow, hard to control and generally unfun to fight things.
Don't play trash like PoE then.

you dont even have to mention the party system. When was the last time you could fall in love with an NPC in an action game? Make irrevocable choices that matter for side quests? Walk a vast open world teeming with stuff to do? Interesting lore in general is just super rare. Sorry but I got sick of finding muh hidden alien tablets pretty much instantly and that's all FPS ever do in terms of story. Even Mario games have a better story than shooters.

How can people like PoE ? you literally spam the same skill over and over and then use a buff every 50 seconds wow great game btw.

Much of the detail in isometric games are powered by your imagination.

Where do you think you are sports games player?

>and it sucked
Take that back you little shit.

Decent. You get a certain number of unique and very challenging story missions that are mixed with skirmish-type random missions where you need to collect resources. Personally, I love the combat itself, so I found both the SP and MP good.

>I don't know what was so satisfying about them.
death animations
gibbing someone with the SMG will never get old

Deus Ex

There is nothing to rebut.

TB or RTwP are merely visual preference, RTwP its still TB just like integration is just a sum

>there is nothing to rebut with
Of course there isn't, you would need a functional brain for that.

its been said a thousand times

30+ soyboys cling to these games because they had nothing better in their prime, it reminds them of a time they weren't so horribly broken and didn't have a wife who prefers other men

nothing good about the games themselves, they had to be that way because of shitty technology at the time, now nobody makes them because its such a shitty way to make a game

Yes. I have an old laptop that I play grand strategy on and I have a PS4 for everything else.

And the rest is in these fabulously gruesome death animations.

>reaction
>react
>reacting
>reaction
>reaction
RTwP = reaction primary, planning secondary
TB = planning primary, reaction secondary

Turn based strategy (and therefore, planning as a primary requirement) isn't for "brainlets", it's a completely different style of gameplay. Turn based combat has been a staple of games for hundreds of years, and just because Div:OS has the depth of a puddle doesn't reflect on the genre one bit. Sperg less

>RTwP its still TB
You mean TB is just simplified RTwP.

You would have to post an actual argument first.

Never really use Morrigan for debuffs all that much so I wouldn't know to be honest.

I usually just do the usual: have a tank take the aggro, have Wynne heal tank, have a warrior/rouge/Morrigan for DPS
If you have a good tank and a healer the game gets a lot more manageable.
> I mean I just finished this quest to kill a den of blood mages and there's no fucking way
Yeah, that quest is a bitch. probably the hardest in the game. It's pretty much meant to be done at the very end of the game and even then it's still pretty hard.

Its common knoledge that % of vrigins is highest amongst anime brainlets. Just % of vrigins amongst japs is almost 50%.All those who follow japs propaganda are fucking loosers.

is it gud? is the story worth it?

it’s less than 2 yuros on steam atm

AS OPPOSED TO RTwP PLAYERS
WHO SLAY MAD PUSS
DAY AND NIGHT

user
PLEASE!

>What the fuck is the appeal
>Pillars of Eternity
Good question.
Try a good game instead and you'll find out. PoE is overly balanced, makes it boring and watered down, a more staggered power system for different classes would work much better.
There's never any sense of adventure, nothing to find. Quests, encounters and dungeons are boring. The writing is bland. The companions are decent, but don't elevate the rest of the game.

This, tabletop RPGs existed because there werent computers.

Then MUDs existed because no graphics.

Then TB RPGs because real time was not plausible with the complexity of an RPG.

People played that shit because technological limitations, not because it was the best option.

Way less virgins, yes.

>Bethesda is so incompetent they can't even do this shit right
This is the worst timeline.

>Then TB RPGs because real time was not plausible with the complexity of an RPG.
Keep going. I want to see what the best, current type of game is not limited by technology.

>he actually believes this

This looks terrible.

you both are just a bunch of fags arguing about useless topics that make no difference in anything. Are you at least having fun?

tabletop RPGs still are alive and well and are more fun than computer RPGs. If you have friends that is.

>This ignorant trite again
ARPG video games predate turn based ones.

>Then TB RPGs because real time was not plausible with the complexity of an RPG.
it was and it always was, turn based video games exist because they were regressively aping tabletop games

...

>RTwP its still TB
You mean TB is just simplified RTwP.

>RTwP = reaction primary, planning secondary
So IRL police and military tactical military operations are carried out according to the "reaction primary, planning secondary" concept? You the dumbest mongoloid ITT, you know that? Nothing prevents you from planning a course of action in advance, then adjusting your plan as the tactical environment changes. This is how things are done when it comes to IRL military and police operations.

You would need a brain to identify arguments first.

Real time action RPGs, played by millons like Skyrim.

>inb4 is shit
No autism

I wish more devs stopped fervently patching any little balance issues their RPG's so much. Having fun trying to come up with new OP builds, it's a huge charm of stat based RPG's and trying to "win" over the system is often just as fun as trying to win over the BBEG.. It's not like it's a multiplayer game, if people want to play an OP build let them.

weeb

keyboard control in NWN was hot cancer

it fit the game pretty nicely, now that i think about it
>worst implementation of D&D rules to date
>clunkier than the first Gothic
>turned-based rtwp abomination
>least interesting campaign that an RPG has ever come up with
if you want something to remember NWN fondly by, think of the player-made modules or Bioware's GOAT treatment of its fans because the game on its own is worse than shit

>so fun
There is you problem, you expect things to be fun for you, instead of them to be fun for someone.
A dildo is also not as much fun to a man, that does not mean that dildos are not fun to women.

Realize and accept that not everything will be apparent to you, but nonetheless can make sense to someone; realize that you might be ignorant, and maybe you will become less so.

>Then TB RPGs because real time was not plausible with the complexity of an RPG.

Dungeon Master came out in '87, nigga.

Keep telling yourself that, its niche

Yeah dude a fucking Atari totally had the memory to keep the game state of an RPG

Name which one lol

>played by millons like Skyrim.
>not limited by technology
Not him, but this is autism
Fucking lmao

>IRL policemen are telepathically linked and adjust their plan every 50 milliseconds

So RTwP fans are men who enjoy dildos?

Automata was pretty excellent, but it's just one game unfortunately.

Skyrim isn't shit, but it's not very good either.

NWN was so empty and ugly it sucked all fun. After Baldurs gate I tried so hard to like NWN, but its just a Diablo with overcomplicated rules and never ending running.

>Name which one lol
Theater. Theater acting is roleplaying.

And might I add, NWN2 the betrayer mask or whatever was great.

>Yeah dude a fucking Atari totally had the memory to keep the game state of an RPG
what? you have to keep the game state of a turn-based or real-time game regardless. Turn based games were never a requirement of technology

lmao

Congrats for outing yourself out as a brainlet

Because nwn is actual rpg and not action/rpg like he proposes.

>describe something
>call it an argument
When you make an argument, if you are capable, please tell me.

Gameplay is good, writing is typical fantasy shit.
Can't go wrong with 2€, you can always refund it if you don't like it.

I would argue that dildos are more fun for some men than they are the average woman.

Other than that you're right about everything else.

what a great thread

A black hole brain doesnt mean his brain is too massive?

...

IRL policemen can react to the slightest changes in tactical environment, be they gunfire noises from unseen threats or visual identification of new threats they had no idea were there, even if they initially have a solid plan of what to do. They do not wait for their opponents to perform an X number of actions before they get their "turn" to act. This is the difference between RTwP and TB and this is why TB has always been inferior.

>in mariposa
>first time really going up against super mutants with big guns
>standing next to one
>his buddy down the hall opens fire on me with a minigun
>misses me, hits the other mutant instead
>mutant does that classic "being shot up" dance for a few seconds before dropping dead

>Yeah, that quest is a bitch. probably the hardest in the game. It's pretty much meant to be done at the very end of the game and even then it's still pretty hard.

Wait, you mean the one in Denerim? The Last Request one?
Surely not. If so I guess I'll steamroll the rest.

Brainlet OP. As expected.

WHAT THE FUCK DO POLICEMAN HAVE TO DO WITH VIDEO GAMES

WHAT A STUPID FUCKING ANALOGY HOLY SHIT

...

user people worship pst for the story, not the gameplay

Rtwp isn't the problem with Pillars. The problem is that all skills of every class are boring as fuck.

Man nu-v is so shit I can't even

A lot of isometric RPGs, especially those released in recent years, have been bad. Your picture is a good example of one that's just flat out average in so many ways that it's forgettable.
If you really want to figure out the appeal in isometric RPGs, play Baldur's Gate. I'll be honest, I played it for the first time as a kid, and while I didn't love it, I always had a respect and curiosity to it. I didn't even finish the series until about a decade later.
Now, it is my favorite RPG series by far. The gameplay is very different as it's more about managing your party, and even solving some puzzles when it comes to more difficult encounters.
When faced with a seemingly unbeatable obstacle, I took the time to refer to my spellbooks and study each individual spell and capability my party had in their possession at the time.
And through learning that, I'd beat the encounters that I found so challenging earlier, sometimes I'd even steamroll them and being able to do that to the same group of monsters that absolutely beat your ass in not fifteen minutes earlier is extremely gratifying.
No other series of games has been able to capture the same feeling as that series.
It feels like a truly grand adventure, its long, it has its ups and downs and twists and turns, as well as challenges and plot points that makes everything feel absolutely hopeless. Yet with enough thought and effort, you're able to overcome all of it as a player.
Of course, through overcoming these obstacles, you also get attached to the characters, not just because of the stories behind them but also because you remember that one time that they were in possession of the crucial piece of the puzzle that you absolutely needed to pull off that tactic you had spent so much effort thinking up.

SRPGs are kind of not the same thing since they're barely even RPGs.

Turn-based RPGs is everything wrong with nerds, linear thinking.

>WHAT THE FUCK DO POLICEMAN HAVE TO DO WITH VIDEO GAMES
Squad tactics games like JA2 or 7.62 are simulations of the IRL squad tactics. They are crude simulations, but they try to mimick the real thing nonetheless. None of these games will ever match the depth and complexity of the real thing, but some come closer than others and these are exclusively RTwP or RT titles.

>b-but muh military simulator action games
Those are games where each player controls only a single unit, we're talking about games where you control the entire squad.

THESE ARE VIDEO GAMES user
THEY DON'T SIMULATE SHIT
STOP DELUDING YOURSELF

The appeal is that they're much simpler and cheaper to make than 3D games.

You should have tried to be a little more subtle.

>VIDEO GAMES DON'T SIMULATE SHIT

Yeah. The game is made so you can play through it in any order, but every area has like a min-max level for scaling. The circle tower will scale from level 1-10 or something and a level 20 character will only fight level 10 enemies, whereas a level 8 character will fight level 8 enemies and so on.

I think in terms of level scaling from low to high it goes:
Redcliffe, Circle Tower, Redcliffe Castle, Brecillian Forest, Deep Roads, Denerim.

>So IRL police and military tactical military operations are carried out according to the "reaction primary, planning secondary" concept? You the dumbest mongoloid ITT, you know that? Nothing prevents you from planning a course of action in advance, then adjusting your plan as the tactical environment changes. This is how things are done when it comes to IRL military and police operations.

Weapons grade autism. I'm not talking about entire operations from start to finish, I'm talking about the sections of an operation that represent 'mid-game', where any event can occur because there's no binding concepts of 'turns'. A "military tactical military operation" with the best planning possible can turn to shit through a myriad of very small possibilities. This is obviously the fun of RTwP, and if you weren't such a defensive sperg you'd know that's what I'm talking about.

TB has more concrete rules, and every action, no matter how seemingly insignificant, demands the same time and effort as any other. Flexibility is restricted and makes for a far different experience.

Reaction and planning exist in both, but they serve roles of differing emphasis on both genres, and pace games very differently. "Secondary" in this case, refers to the method that can be ignored for the longest by the player before a failure state, which is exactly the difference between RTwP and TB

Pausable real time is extremely unrealistic as no commander could every control his troops with such accuracy. TB much more accurately simulates the difficulty of organizing a squad to act in unison and having to deal with the unforeseen consequences of your decisions.

I'll admit that most of them are trash. The few that are good though are really damn good. But the only Isometric RPG I've ever liked have been Fallout 1 & 2 (Baldurs Gate 1 was okay though).

RTWP should probably be paused by default and have a dedicated "hold to move time forward" button.

Ah, I see, thanks for the info.

>every action, no matter how seemingly insignificant, demands the same time and effort as any other.
That's not the point. The point is that not every action in TB allows for a reaction and this is why TB games are inherently inferior. THis is inarguable, because this is a fact. The fact that you're trying to present "restricted flexibility" in a positive light is hilarious.

>different experience.
Yeah, an experience of inferior tactical depth.

>but they serve roles of differing emphasis on both genres
Wrong. Planning inherently serves a bigger role in TB, because the reaction funcionality is lacking, compared to RTwP. However, in RTwP, you can make an emphasis on either of these aspects of tactical gameplay as heavily as you want, because neither of these aspects are castrated.

>TB much more accurately simulates the difficulty of organizing a squad to act in unison
No, it doesn't. Despite whether soldiers were given orders or not, they can and WILL react to changes in tactical environment. In RTwP you have a choice of whether you want to react or not, in TB, there is no such choice, because the reaction aspect is castrated.

Xcom was fine with TB, but JA2 1.13 would be way better with RTwP

I prefer iso RPGs that focus less on dice rolls and have a more action-orientated style of combat to them.

>I prefer Skyrim to PoE

>rulesets that don't allow 1:1 representation of human reactions are objectively inferior because I don't like the idea of a limitation to change the flow of gameplay
Absolutely childish.

>>but they serve roles of differing emphasis on both genres
>Wrong. Planning inherently serves a bigger role in TB, because the reaction funcionality is lacking, compared to RTwP.
I can't imagine being so outraged that I'd call someone wrong then immediately explain why they were, in fact, correct.

>However, in RTwP, you can make an emphasis on either of these aspects of tactical gameplay as heavily as you want, because neither of these aspects are castrated.
No, reaction is emphasized more heavily because abandoning it results in a faster fail state than abandoning planning, by design. I'm saying this again in the selfish hope you'll actually address it, because I'm curious to see how far you'll stretch to "prove" you're right.

Git gud

The only isometric game I ever played was fallout 2 and I really had a lot of fun. Positioning myself during combat, making efficient use of my action points, prioritizing AP in my build, being able to outrun some enemies but not others, and the general tension of standing face to face with the enemies were all things I enjoyed. It really surprised me, since I always assumed I wouldn't like the older games because they were nothing like the Bethesda/obsidian titles.

It helps that I am a big fan of the 3D fallout games (yes even 4), and had played hundreds of hours of each of them before finally picking up fallout 2. Fantastic story, lore, and character building, fun gameplay, and a rich wasteland setting. Really could not recommend that game enough to anyone who hasn't played it. Now I'm looking to get into some other games in this genre, since I sort of "get" it.

I want a Twin-Stick Shooter Action RPG.

Titan Quest, Diablo 3, SILVER, Lodoss War. And some others. I don't mind dice rolls as such, but it can get tedious and I don't feel like the combat is reactive enough.

>rulesets that don't allow 1:1 representation of human reactions
Strawman pulled out of your ass. Better representation != 1:1 representation.

>correct.
Wrong. Planning inherently serves a bigger role than reaction in TB, because the reaction part is castrated. This does not mean that planning serves a bigger role in TB than it does in RTwP. Again, in RTwP, you can focus on either reaction or planning component as heavily as you like. In TB, you cannot do so, because the reaction aspect is heavily limited compared to RTwP.

>reaction is emphasized more heavily because abandoning it results in a faster fail state than abandoning planning, by design
Wow, it's as if not reacting to your immediate tactical surroundings and sticking to a rigid plan of action results in you getting BTFO faster than reacting and modifying your plan of action based on the tactical situation! Shocking and never happens IRL, I know.

Fucking retard.

You're a pleb

>Words words words
Shut up nerd

3D games are a waste of budget and don't have better combat, generally speaking.

How can one person have such shit taste?
Same question for you faggot.

The gameplay isn't horrible just because (you) don't like it user.

Is this is what having your birth year starting with 2 looks like?

I was born in 204 retard

Oh hey it's ZOOM: the game.

Isometric Rpgs. Care to join me?

Go play your shitty mainstream first person 'rpgs' like kingdom come deliverance, while we build entire parties of custom characters, explore companion storylines and quests, and play actual tactical combat revolving around more than just your MC's sword and cock. Brainlet.

I find most typed of RPGs to be entertaining when done well. TB, RTwP, straight up action. I don't have a real preference.

Do I have patrician taste or am I a fence-sitting brainlet?

Wow you are sure enlightened you massive faggot

>revolving around more than just your MC's sword and cock

That's not how I play them.
Real talk though, evil assholes can be the best characters sometimes. Especially if the game is otherwise pretty boring like PoE.

>tfw never getting NWN3
Feels terri-bad

patrician
Avoiding any specific type of rpg is as retarded as avoiding any specific genre of video game

Go back to your shitty first person adventure games.

PoE is horribly boring and story is so fucking retarded

>his mind is so slow he need turns and pauses
But they are actually fun

>le centrist
kys

>What the fuck is the appeal of ________?

>It all feels so _______ and _______.
>Why is it popular enough to warrant such a huge fan base?

>I'm genuinely confused

Why are you playing the worst cRPG of the lot, though (unless you count DivOS)?

If you found out a group of people that enjoy a kick in the balls you would be genuinely confused about it.

>DivOS
>bad
>worse than pillars of boredom even
I want to take a shit in your contrarian mouth.

>he can't into party mechanics
It isn't an rpg if there is no party. Go back.

ballbusting is a thing tho

>good dialogue
>better story
I sinerely thought that this would be the strong point of these games nowadays to give them relevance.
Then I played DoS1 and PoE and realized they do not even have that. These games have literally nothing going for them.

>implying OP isn't baiting retards for yous
bitch fuck off with your bullshit

Poe > Baldurs gate 2 >>>>>>>> kiddinity os1,2.

Autism.

Writing and quest design is the most important aspect of any RPG. These two aspects are beyond fucking TERRIBLE in DivOS1 and 2, no matter how mediocre that game's combat is.
So yes, DivOS1 and 2 are shit and way worse than Pillars 1. Doesn't make PoE1 good though.

You fags need to go back to your eurojank. Leave real rpgs to isometric party based games. Thanks.

I'm glad we had this talk, user. All your opinions are definitely objective truth.

Your opinions are worthless.

DoS1 having a saturday morning carstoon "story" is not an opinion.

says a random underage on an imageboard
my opinions are corroborated by every top 10 list of RPGs ever and by every RPG loved on Cred Forums.

That isn't evidence.

>fun
They probably think fun is just a meme for the unwashed masses

>Poe>Baldur's Gate
Are you insane? Nothing I've seen from any RPG comes close to Baldur's Gate except DA:O.
youtube.com/watch?v=Hk0sOGVSAP4

When all the games in the top 10 have extremely strong writing and quest design, and the big majority of them have fucking awful gameplay, yes, it is evidence of what I'm saying.

>except DA:O.
bait
or xbox360 kiddie

Are there any isometric RPGS where you can solo without gimping yourself?

Excellent argumentation, care to expand on that?

Care to give some examples to back up your "exquisite" taste?

Id like a game with all the story and choices and shit like in CRPGs but with some nice ass sword fighting and spell slinging combat. Elder scrolls or witcher but good

Poe post white marches and 3.0 is completely different game than launch poe. It most certainly surpasses bg2.

No, you faggot. A list of what people on Cred Forums enjoy most is not evidence. It's all subjective taste arguments. Post examples, qualify your statements.

Regardless of what you may think, it's not immediately obvious what "saturday morning cartoon story" means. If you want people to actually give a shit about your opinions, you need to stop vomiting them up and pretending their right and actually prove that they're right.

DA:O class development is garbage, there are less spells than in D&D games and most magic trees are just the same as the other ones but reskinned and with a slight twist, the story is pretty mediocre and almost a retreading of BG, holy trinity based balance, awful mana/energy system, really repetitive, the fade.

Sure, but first tell me how DA:O's antagonist even comes close to Jon Irenicus.

There's two possibilities:
>you consider Logan the antagonist. He's a complete dumbass and the stereotypical 2cold2rational edgelord villain. He doesn't really make a lot of sense. He's not a good villain.
>you consider the dragon the villain. He never interacts with you, aside from the dreams. He has no character. Only thing it is is the standard ancient evil that wants to destroy everything for no reason.
To consider one of these on part with Jon Irenicus you'd have to be mentally challenged.

If you want people to actually give a shit about your opinions, you need to stop vomiting them up and pretending their right and actually prove that they're right.
You might be the most retarded person here. How is someone supposed to 'prove' an opinion brainlet.

Reminder: The only reason you think Kingdom come deliverance is good, is because it doesn't use fantasy as a basis. If it was a fantasy game with the same mechanics it would be shit.

"people on Cred Forums" isn't my only example. I also mentioned constant Top 10 RPGs of all time lists. In these you'll ALWAYS find the following games:
>Deus Ex
>VtMB
>Fallout
>Baldur's Gate 2
>Planescape Torment
>Fallout 2
>Morrowind
>New Vegas
>Gothic
>Wizardry 8 (only exception to the rule)
>Mask of the Betrayer
>KotOR2
the list goes on

Nice green text.

It still isn't evidence. What about those games is superior to DOS1 and 2? Better narrative? What about their narrative is superior?

But I just told you 2 posts ago brainlet. The writing and quest design is infinitely better than anything you'll find in DivOS2.

Any of those games has WAY better characters and story than DivOS1 and 2. The story in these latter games is incedibly juvenile "an ancient evil awakens who wants to destroy the world, you're the chosen one everything revolves around you" shit. The companions also follow this rule of being either total dumbasses who have no personality or who worry too much about trivial garbage of no consequence.

Just name me 3 memorable characters from DivOS1 or 2 in less than 10 seconds. I know you can't and you're just gonna google anyway, but that'll just prove my point that they're forgettable. Meanwhile I can probably name you the big majority of characters that are in any of the listed games.

Most of those are old overrated games besides Gothic, BG2, and VtMB, and PS:T.
>New Vegas
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

Like really. Those lists come about because of the Age group of those making it. Make the same list asking 18-25 year olds and you will get a completely different list.

Isometric > Third person > Dungeon Crawlers > First person

>DA:O class development is garbage
Meaning? Every class progresses well. I've played with all of them and I haven't had a complain.
>there are less spells than in D&D games
And? How many spells did you use in D&D? End game timestop is all that was needed. In DA:O, sleep, walking nightmare, cone of cold, fireball, mana clash, heal, blood boil, group heal, blood magic will never fall from grace and will stay with you throughout the end of the game, into DA:A.
>the story is pretty mediocre
That's fucking bullshit. Loghain is probably one of the best villains in any game (and I don't even consider him a villain). It also barely has any similiarity to BG.
>holy trinity based balance
Meaning?
>awful mana/energy system
You're just latching onto whatever you can find here. What's awful about it?
>really repetitive
Examples?
>the fade.
Only brainlets dislike the Fade because puzzles are just not their thing.
Loghain is not a villain, but he is an antagonist. The Archdemon is in the background for obvious reasons. His role is similiar to Sauron.
>Jon Irenicus
He's not even the best villain in BG, that part goes to Sarevok.

>But I just told you 2 posts ago brainlet.
You didn't. Provide. Evidence. Just saying they're terrible doesn't say shit to anyone. Now we're getting somewhere.

I fully agree with you about DOS1 and 2. I think they're trite shit. You were just pushing all this stupid Cred Forums hyperbole bullshit instead of actually saying something of worth. I'm not the user you were originally responding to.

>7.62 and Marauder are pretty much universally acclaimed as the best squad tactics simulator games ever made
No they're not, quit making shit up.

Arhu, Zandalor, cheese vendor.

>He's not even the best villain in BG, that part goes to Sarevok.
not even the guy you were talking too, but your opinion has been invalidated for me.

>provide evidence
you want me to go re-download and install DivOS1 and 2, replay them, take screenshots of all the dumb shit, so I can then post here and argue with you a point you already know is true?
no, I'm not gonna bother.

That only goes for Fire Emblem.
FFT, TO and the likes have all the stats, leveling and management etc that an RPG should have.

>His role is similiar to Sauron.
Except Sauron at least
1) communicated
2) Served as an excuse to go on an adventure where the characters all underwent massive changes in their relationships and broke centuries old prejudices
This doesn't happen in DA:O, so there's no point even bringing it up. Archdemon is shit. Period.

That excuse has more holes than this fine camembert!

>Play PoE
>First game in that kind of genre
>Shit load of text
>"okay it's a lore heavy game I knew that"
>Get into random fight
>Having to micro manage six fucking characters for a random fight
>Get in another random fight and have to do it AGAIN
>Find out there's an AI you can use
>Read about it online
>"it's shit lol"
>mfw the level of autism to enjoy the combat in this game

>too
not even the guy you were talking to, but your opinion has been invalidated for me.

You're right and it's sad that people refuse to recognize this.

"Stand in one spot and get off as much damage as possible while making sure you have enough turns to heal, but if you can't increase your stats with the totally convoluted grinding systems that are unique to this game but are trivial to optimize if you actually know how they work" is the most rank braindead shit there is. I'd have basic respect for this style of game if they put the slightest effort into amending their huge flaws.

Like with every RTwP RPG that isn't KotOR, you're better off with a smaller party because you have to manage less and the XP gain is increased.

unironically, this

Isometric RPGs are fine, shitty RTwP is the real problem. So many good games ruined by RTwP combat.

Half the classes don't even require any kind of micromanagement.

Bullshit, that would be the Infinity Engine games and their literal autoattack or nothing martials. Everyone has abilities that matter in PoE.

>No they're not
Yes, they are. ANyone who has played both 7.62 and JA2 1.13 will concur and the opinions of those who haven't played both games are irrelevant, ignorant garbage.

>the stats, leveling and management etc
>that an RPG should have

>the very most cancerous elements of conventional RPGs are the things "they should have"

Kek, let's be honest here, why do you plebs even like Irenicus (myself included). Because of David Warner's voice acting and nothing else. He's just your genetic "i need more power to ascend to godhood". His lines are epic, as shown in that clip, his style is impeccable, I agree, but other than that he is your generic fantasy villain. Sarevok, on the other hand is an extremely complex character. You see him as your typical brute of a villain who just smashes everything in his path, but throughout the story you realize that that's the least of his attributes - his intelligence is his trump card. Reading his journal, you realize why he turned out the way he turned out, why he is not that different from you, why he hates his father and loves his mother, why he even tries to ascend to godhood. He also has his own companions like Tamoko and Tazok who are loyal to him to the very end. And in the end he just laughs when he's dying

His very goal is misguided as creating a war with Amn and causing all that bloodshed would not even ascend him to godhood (as we're later told in BG:2), but it is still unique. Sarevok is the other side of the coin of the Bhaalspawn. He would have turned hero, if Gorion saved him instead of Charname. Far more complex than anything Irenicus was.

>rougelikes
no there's an autistic genre

>play RTWP
>supposed to be good because "muh real time actions and movement" unlike Turn-based
>pause the game so much you might as well play a Turn-based game

DivOS is pretty fucking bad in most aspects though. It looks like shit, has awful writing and dialogue and literal who party members. It's only salvaged by the godlike gameplay.

>1) communicated
So did the Archdemon, pretty similiarly, in fact.
>2) Served as an excuse to go on an adventure where the characters all underwent massive changes in their relationships and broke centuries old prejudices
Did you even play the game? That's exactly what happens. The Warden and Alistair are forced to go on an 'adventure' in order to defeat him. Alistair, Morrigan, Leliana, Sten, all your fucking companions change immensely over the course of the story.

Some of them are really good, especially the older titles. Trash like pillars of eternity is basically unplayable on any level.

Sure it is

You're full of shit, everyone who's done that will agree that JA2 1.13 is the superior game and that 7.62 is dragged down by bugs.

Betting all my money you are not even 25 yet.

There is nothing wrong with disliking shitty RTwP, I grew up with them and still think it's a shitty system.

>Game starts out as a hardcore game with seemingly deep combat but gets easier, simpler and more repetitive as it goes on

But that's not even true?

Why would you even bother making a post that is an obvious lie to anyone who has played the game so far as to even go through the first fight.

Can anyone explain the whole "muh superior real time positioning" meme to me? Every fight I get into in Pillars of Eternity results in everyone, both allies and enemies, getting stuck and unable to move because everyone gets bunched together and are failing to move at the same time.

Great combat
Handrawn graphics
More choices
More playstyle options
More story
Often great voice acting

Why do developers even bother making RTwP anymore? It's an outdated system that combines the worst of turn-based and real-time systems, and with advancement in thought both systems have evolved and advanced while RTwP is stagnant.

>everyone who's done that will agree that JA2 1.13 is the superior game
Prove that you've played 7.62 and that your opinion is not irrelevant, ignorant dogshit. The ambush mission alone in 7.62 has more depth than the entirety of JA2 combined.

Because it's superior to both turnbased and real time.

Tides of Numenera is better than PoE ?

I ask because I got bored of PoE and I know ToN is shit but I wonder if it could be ok if all I want is waste time in a weird and interesting world.

>It all feels so clunky, slow, hard to control and generally unfun to fight things.
thats a pretty subjective opinoin

most people like Isometric RPGs because they offer a depth to gameplay that most games aren't capable of

>prove that i played a game I pirated to see if it was any good after hype from cyka blyats over a decade ago
No.

Because they disagree with your pleb uninformed casual opinion regardless of how many times you repeatedly spout it on Cred Forums

>it's turn-based without the fun positioning mechanics
>it's real time without the real time

Even on PoTD, the only classes I have to actually micromanage are Cipher, Wizard, Druid and Priest. Maybe occasionally make sure the anti-debuff exhortation is used right. That's it.

In other words, your dogshit opinion is irrelevant and stems entirely from your putrid shithole instead of actual in-game experience? OK.

>genres and perspective on the same scale
?

Not sure why you are trying to keep up the lie after you've been called out. Typing out classes changes nothing.

t. got raped by kobolds with bows

>I'm genuinely confused
You are not the audience. I dont see the problem since the industry is making, since years, games for you and your kind. Try Fallout 4 or Andromeda.

You denying facts doesn't change anything either. A good half of the classes is extremely passive.

Which game can I disguise as the enemy and run around setting traps in their backline again?

>He's a complete dumbass and the stereotypical 2cold2rational edgelord villain
Logain is the exact opposite. He let's his hatred and paranoia of invasion from Orlais completely overwhelm him, causing the desertion at Ostagar and him taking control. He saw the battle against the Darkspawn as folly because he didn't believe in a blight. He was too steeped in his thoughts of previous wars and potential future ones, and saw invasion as more likely, despite all the signs that this wasn't an ordinary Darkspawn horde. If I recall correctly, he also refuses assistance from Orlais for the aforementioned reasons, despite it becoming clear that he's going to need it.

When he realizes how wrong he's been, he even accepts the Grey Warden Joining and willingly scarifies himself to the Archdemon, if you should allow him to. He's not cold, and he's not autismo-rational
>He doesn't really make a lot of sense
See the reasons stated above
>He's not a good villain.
He's an antagonist

Fallout New Vegas?

what the fuck

>i am so smart i need to pause 50+ times to do simple things
you are truly retarded.

I'm still waiting for Lost Ark.

>pausing after every click

So you're playing what essentially boils down to an RTS with a crutch pause button so your brainlet mind can catch up with the action.

Wow you're so intelligent for playing shitty """tactical""" games. Look so fun bros

>my reaction times are so slow and my fingers so fat that I need turns and the enemy to be completely immovable because I think about 10 minutes (while checking a guide) how to win.

>pause so much the game moves even slower than a turn-based game

Nigger I've played competitive chess matches that moved faster than that.

their relationship doesn't change you fucking retard
learn to read

>boasts about reaction times
>plays a game built around pausing instead of playing RTS

>Tides of Numenera is better than PoE ?
no
it's worse

Besides this, I will say that the best thing about RTwP is the fact that you can rush filler combat. Unlike TB when for every fucking encounter, even the most meaningless, you need to waste time in a slow as fuck system.

After playing PoE I want all RPGs to be RTwP despite never playing a cRPG before, combat system was amazing and very intense.

Nostalgia. Those used to be the best games RPG genre had to offer and some people just never moved on.
>inb4 muh dialogue options
Well it's not isometric viewpoint that grants you those dialogue options is it. The top-down isometric view does nothing to make the game better but it's very efficient in totally ruining the feeling of being in a different world since you can't even see that world for the most part

>around pausing
Good try, turncuck.

Why do RTwP fags lump themselves in with real time players? You fuckers play games with little micromanagement AND the ability to pause whenever you want.

You might as well play a turn-based game if you are too scared to play a real time game.

>playing RTwP without pausing

Nice autobattle simulator.

>So you're playing what essentially boils down to an RTS
You are retarded if you don't understand the actual difference that pause adds to RT. In RTS, the scope of reaction is limited due to one's limited APM. YOu simply cannot react as good as you would like to in most cases unless you're some gook playing 24/7. In RTwP, you get to react both whenever you want AND react with as much scope as you want, since you can pause the game for an amount of time it takes you to distribute new orders. RTwP is ultimate system for squad tactics, nothing else competes, because both pure RT and TB are limited in some aspect: in TB it is the ability of the player to react in general, in pure RT it is the scope of reaction that suffers. Only retarded mongoloids like you cannot see this.

Its funny that a game from 2000 was more immersive than Fallout 4.

Its not the graphics or even art style: its the writing. Games were made by neckbeard nerds, not failed Hollywood screenwriters.

To scratch the PnP itch when your friends aren't around. It's basically a sandbox filled with combat, exploration and character progression set up by a narrator. You get an RPG minus 90% of the character interaction of a tabletop session.

>Not pausing every frame

who's the guy in the cover of BG2?

>boasting about how rtwp players are "scared" to play real time
>he's reminded that you can actually play without the using the pause button
>MUH autobattle!
Can't expect anything else from someone who ask for turn system because his brain is slows

Again, it's not isometric viewpoint that grants you good writing. Those games just happen to have good writing, they could also be first person and have good writing. Except then you would also be able to actually look at the world and understand what it feels like to be in it

A lot of shitflinging in here, just wanted to come in and saw BG2 is my favorite game and I think I'll go play it again. I wish Anomen didn't miss out on the wisdom gain if you make him fall. Want to maybe do an evil party and bring him along too. I guess I'll have Viconia doing the actual heavy lifting on cleric spells.

Charname I think. With the good/evil theme.

Unironically best post in this thread

>Why do developers even bother making RTwP anymore?
They barely do that these days. Bethesda and Bioware since EA for example make games for people like you.

>no babyface on Boo

you had one job

Turning Aery into an evil bitch and personal sexslave was fun.

I finished PoE just for the combat

Irenicus and Sarevok... kek

I don't play turn based isometric dogs
But the appeal of games like: Titan quest. From dawn , Diablo , and path of exile is efficiency
You're supposed to m min-max your character to the point where regular packs of mind get one -shot and I know for from dawn and titan quest of you want a chance at fighting some of the high level bosses being able to burst down large packs of Goons w/o even losing 10% of your Health Is A Bare Minimumm

The Reason I love These Games Is Because They Are 99% Combat 1% Everything Else And The Combat Is All Numbers And Planning

I guess i haven't watched enough Rick and Morty.

>You can do whatever you want!
>But me, personally? I'll default to a pause state and only unpause to select movements

So you're a 'retarded mongoloid' LARPing as a genius. Got it.

Don't feel like I saw Underrail mentioned in here. One of the better turn based iso RPGs out there. Anyone who tells you the story sucks didn't finish Depot A.

Expansion when Styg!? The tweaks from December are great but where is my fucking jet ski?

>it gets better after

Stop

Is the verbal diarrhea in your current post supposed to make sense? Because it sure doesn't.

>s-stop calling me out as being a retard! it doesn't make sense!

Keep crying bitch nigga

I hate this argument.

>It gets better after X-place

Every time I fell for it, let me tell you what happened: It didn't get better after X-place.

How are you "calling me out" by spouting nonsense that makes absolutely zero sense?

makes sense to anyone with a brain tbqhwy

>t. skyrim playing millenial
If you had any goddamn common decency you would kill yourself.

i kinda wanna try out one of the recent ones

is there one that's entirely open world and has good character creation? also preferably available on ps4

>how you dare to play fun games!

But mindless grind and micromanagment simulator is the intellectual choice amrite?

In order for your post to make sense it needs to contain an argument. Try reformulating your verbal diarrhea into an argument one more time and then I just may grace you with an actual response.

This is in the first few hours of the game. It's the first area with any actual challenge and will break bad character builds for people too dumb to realize how many skill points you get every time you level up.

The story is barebones until after this as the game opens up in a sprawling manner, you were being introduced to the world up until after when you become a more active part of it. It isn't that Underrail is bad until that point. It is that people can't beat Depot A, uninstall and call the game shit and the story bad.

What grind?

>What the fuck is the appeal of Isometric Rpgs?

i dunno op. what's the appeal of sucking ten thousand miles of dick?

So IRL police and military tactical military operations are carried out according to the "reaction primary, planning secondary" concept?

you know, it's funny you say that, but yes, yes they do. training instills set behaviours and actions until they become muscle memory.

Planning happens outside of an engagement and inside one by officers and nco's, the grunt on the ground has a much lesser perspective to them planning shit is strongly frowned upon. they're their to do as they're told, immediately. reaction speed and trained automatic actions are used for a reason. forces that try to think too much usually end up encircled, overcome, and dead. thinking slows you down too much. only a very few people should be doing it, otherwise you're asking to die.

doom is a lot more fun at 1 frame per second

>military operations are carried out according to the "reaction primary, planning secondary" concept?
Nice strawman pulled out of your ass, shitstain. You obviously lack basic reading comprehension, so I will spell this out one more time for a brain-dead mongoloid like yourself: the reaction aspect in TB games is limited while neither the reaction, nor the planning aspect is limited in RTwP. You can place an emphasis on each component as heavily as you like.

IRL, both aspects are crucial, because if you have a rigid plan of action, yet that plan does not take changes in the tactical environment into account, or is based on incomplete information and the command refuses to alter the plan once more information is revealed, you're going to fail more likely than not. However, if you go in without having a proper plan of action you're going to get your men killed. RTwP simulates this situation pefectly, because it allows you to both react and plan as heavily as you like. TB does not, since your opportunities for reaction are extremely limited, compared to RTwP. In RTwP, you can react to even the smallest of actions while in TB you react to a SUM OF ACTIONS. This is why RTwP always has been and always will be superior, because TB is pretty much just dumbed down RTwP for dumbfucks like you.

If you can't understand these basic things, you might as well stop breathing.

This, you go Turn Based RPG or FPS, everything in between is for faggots.

>playing diablo 2 for the first time in 15 years
>realize it's fun but pretty light on story
what "isometric" rpg should i try next?

Icewind Dale. A bit light on story, player made party, good music, beautiful scenery

>"objectively shit-tier games are fun!"
>"b-b-but you're not allowed to have fun with objectively good games, because I can't handle the gameplay!"
the absolute state of genZ

>yet that plan does not take changes in the tactical environment into account
it actually does, thats why team-leaders are usually pretty intelligent in order to improvise fast and act according to the new tactical situations

The complete opposite. Combat is kind of shit but it's not really the point of the game.

I was just giving an example of a hypothetical situation. As I've stated before both aspects are important: planning and reaction, which is why a game simulating squad based tactics needs to have both of these aspects fleshed out well and this cannot be done in RTwP to the same degree that RTwP allows.

>and this cannot be done in RTwP
*and this cannot be done in TB

Turn based and isometric RPGs offer things action RPGs don´t or can´t anymore.

Isometric offers a variety of tactical and strategical elements that gives a player full control over the fight. Action RPGs can´t do that. At best you have to trust the inteligence of the AI and every character does it´s own thing unless you switch on the fly to perform an especific action.

They are trying to solve this so the AI is not completely retarded but it still not as good as controlling all your characters and their postioning, actions, terrain advantages and whatnot.

Turn based or AT combat on the other hand allows for variety of combat systems. Legend of Dragoon is not the same as Valkyrie profile, Shadow Hearts or old school FF.

Meanwhile ARPGs are more dynamic and fast paced but most of your party ends up only supporting the one character you are actually using during the fight.
Offcourse one can switch characters on the fly for some real time in the middle of the fight strategy but most times is pushing trough force.

All the systems have some good and some bad on them.

I didn't want to attack you

No, it's the best outlook. People genuinely trying to argue are RTwP vs TB are autistic.

Pretty sure you're the only one that doesn't get it, brainlet

>inquisitor
checked a few videos

do stats you input at beginning of game play a big role? can you get screwed later by messing this up?

>doesn't know how to spell millennial
>99% chance he's a millennial himself but parrots the term because he saw mainstream media use it to generalize younger people.

>it's just the setup, it's okay if it's shit

Wouldn't it be better if the intro to a game really grabbed you with great writing and gameplay? Maybe the game is just shit and telling yourself 'it gets better' was just your method of dealing with buyer's remorse.

Play Underrail, nigger
It's actually fun.

PoE should in no way be a representative of the genre. RTwP sucks ass

This game is so fucking boring. Why are all the characters look like shit. Why is there no color save for BROWN.

Not really, you can't upgrade to the next tier of abilities until you level reaches a certain threshold (6, 8, 11, 16, 24, 36) so you can get a lot of different shit. Combat can be a real chore though, so if you want using the cheat code to give yourself exp won't actually make your experience worse. It's more of a detective game with some obligatory dungeon crawling.

Front Mission games are fun, but it's turn based. Lots of WRPGs are TB, so play these instead of shitty PoE.
Check out Underrail, DivOS, Wasteland 2, Expeditions series...

...

You need a special kind of autism to enjoy these games.

thanks user

>I don't like the gameplay, therefore it is horrible
It's almost as if taste in bideo gaymz is subjective

>op quickly realizes his bait won't stick
so he switches for east vs west bitchfest
>Cred Forums falls for it
fucks sake how can you guys fall for such obvious b8

Well, time to go play Zork then buddy.

> what the fuck is the appeal of top-down board games?

why do you have an american in your party

I don't think he meant turn based games like DoS

Party isn't even full, and you get him pretty early.

But top down board games have more depth.
Either play turn based RPGs or RTS. These games are just a disgusting spawn of the two.

I like strategy games but am not good at them. I like the idea of RTwP, but a lot of the time it ends up beings pausing all the time to issue orders. I wouldn't mind this if I felt there was more strategy behind it, but most of the time it feels more like managing a bunch of schoolchildren.

This sums up the whole thing.

This thread can be closed.

32 here. OP isn't wrong.

Post that shit again, motherfucker. I dare you.
Rasengan!

There's just something romantic about that camera angle.

>people born in 2000 can legally post here now
>this is an example thread they will make daily now

see You just have shit taste my friend

That's why ja2 is still the best. Ap games based on the RPG stats of the individuals, since you the player aren't doing things in the game as the omnipresent commanding overlord. Your squaddies are those characters you control are doing the heavy lifting. The player challenge is in keeping them alive and giving them the right orders, spending their ap intelligently.

Perfect midpoint between TB and RT. fuck this pause nonsense.

Special mention also goes to fallout tactics for being an AP based game. Which can be toggled to complete realtime too, whilst still using the ap.