Persona 5 and feeling of emptiness

For something like 3 years, I'd practiced careful filtering of information related to P5, and all things Atlus in general. I'd set Cred Forums Catalog to hide all threads starting with various related keywords I could think of about the game in advance, just to avoid spoilers. I'd done the same with MGS5 and Zelda: BotW, and I'm glad to say that the effort was worth it.

And now, after all those years of waiting and dodging news feeds about this game, I can finally disable all the safety measures and relax. I'm free to explore people's reactions and discuss the game.

I took my sweet time with the game, clocking 173 hours on my game clear save file, doing pretty well when it came to finishing most of the major stuff.
Boy, what a ride it was! The sheer style of ... everything really is top notch and over the top, with insane levels of attention to details being visible in every corner. The story and themes were captivating and hit frighteningly close home for me. Gameplay was addicting and fun. OST has some rocking tunes. All in all, impressive as hell!

But now I'm left with a bitter sweet hole in my life. Something I don't recall experiencing with gaming since maybe late PS2 days. With so many modern games being brain numbing, disposable, simplified and easy cash grabs, I'd almost forgotten how it feels to be hooked and immersed with games. P5 was a reason to be excited about returning back home after a long, shitty day at work for literal months, and now it's over.

tl;dr:
I thank Breath Of The Wild and Persona 5 for restoring my faith in games;
Former for proving that unobscured, non-patronizing gameplay is still doable in late 2010s.
Latter for not only showing that a long wait can be worth it, but that some people still know how to make great, story-driven experiences, that are fun to play to boot.

PS: Futaba the best girl

I can agree with your sentiment but I really didn’t like BotW or P5 that much. Both were pretty disappointing to me, and my expectations weren’t even high.

You waited too long to post this copypasta.

That is interesting. I'm personally quite skeptic person nowadays when it comes to vidya, and both games greatly exceeded all my expectations. I might actually have to rethink my top-10 favorite games list now, something I haven't really had to even think about for well over a decade.

It might come as a shock to the post-2010 nu-fags of Cred Forums, but some people are capable of writing posts longer than a single MSM / Twitter message. And I'm one of those people.

>Futaba the best girl
you got that right at least

It's a rare feeling nowadays, so enjoy it.

>avoid Persona spoilers by using shitty filters
Not possible, faggot. Take your shitty fanfiction back to plebbit. .

Persona 5 is good because it's basically just a natural progression of oldschool JRPGs, a genre which have foolishly been trying to ''innovate'' for years.

>It's a rare feeling nowadays, so enjoy it.
oh, I do.
it's just weird to "enjoy" this feeling of practically having lost something great. With BotW, the game just kinda faded away after a while, but P5 has a clear, stark ending.

>Not possible, faggot.
Sounds like someone's just bad @ internets.
Helps that I do not use any normie social media sites. I even unsubscribed from many of my favorite YT channels for the time being.

>Persona 5 is good because it's basically just a natural progression of oldschool JRPGs,
True. There's also the fact that P5 brought the IP closer to its SMT roots in many ways.

nigga I beat it the month it came out and had around the same time the game shits itself after Kamoshida and the only redeeming feature is that it isn't persona3. Git gud nerd

Then kill yourself; you’re obviously incapable of enjoying life as it is.

>normie
Spotted the normalfag

Nope. Not fooling anyone, plebbit. People have gotten Persona spoiled on /ck/ of all boards.

you wot mate? P3 was the best Persona before 5 came out!

There was a small dip in quality after the Futaba's Tomb, but it picked the fuck up again in the end.

I bet the entire 2005-era Cred Forums would be "leleddit clone" to you young newfags.

>/ck/
I literally have no idea what the hell that is.

>Then kill yourself;
No.
>you’re obviously incapable of enjoying life as it is.
on the contrary; games like P5 are one of the many spices of the life. One of the reasons to get up from the bed.

dude, how much of a brainlet do you have to be to out yourself as a newfag that hard? just stop

Very comfy game but I hated the way that it takes control away from you forcing you to go to sleep.

I'm near the end now and I feel sad, I've unlocked all these confidant abilities and I hardly get to use them

If you actually want to discuss the game, try /vg/. This place is a shitpost containment zone and you're wasting your time

Play good videogames instead.

>173 hours
The game is long but not that much.
106 hours here, and I tried to do everything.

>go on /vg/
>endless waifuposting and tripfags blogposting
yeah its so much better

Have you ever fallen in love with a video game character?
This is___, say something nice about her!
Chie thread? Chie thread.

I just started playing this myself, and finished the first palace yesterday. This is actually my first Persona, and if what I've seen so far is any indicator, it might be my GOTY 2017. I'm planning on jumping into 4 immediately after I'm done with this one.

Accept that most games are shit and enjoy the good ones even more. That is what gaming has become for me. You can find good stories in books, listen to great music everywhere. Games rarely manage to positively combine all of that.

God i want to buy these sexy outfits so bad. Look at makotos thicc ass

Why is Persona so fucking bad when it comes to proportions?

Anime

>feeling of emptiness
When I finished the game I was depressed for a whole week because Makoto will never be real.
Good thing the anime and the dancing games are coming soon.

>The game is long but not that much.
I don't know what you're saying. I had 150h clocked on my first playthrough, and ~195 after NG+.

>This is actually my first Persona, and if what I've seen so far is any indicator, it might be my GOTY 2017.
OP here, I'd personally been exposed to a lot of Persona stuff before, but this was my first game I played and finished, all on my own. And it was superb.

>I'm planning on jumping into 4 immediately after I'm done with this one.
Not a bad idea, though I might suggest checking out P3:FES first. P4's like... a standalone expansion pack of sorts? Not that it really matters, as a lot of 3-5 is very similar, with the tone of the story being the main element to change.

>Play good videogames instead.
But I just did. Superb one at that.
Finding truly good games is hard as fuck nowadays, but somehow I've now managed to score a handful of them within the past couple years.

>playing FES after 5
Do you want OP to kill himself? Better wait for the remake than waste his time playing that clunky shit.

>I literally have no idea what I'm typing! - the post

>FES
>clunky shit
OP here, (You) are just mouth breathingly retarded as hell. Please consider kys.

>b-but muh Marin Karin!!!
Literal casual filter.

>tfw ywn find this cute hikineet midget slav squatting in front of your house, wanting to eat curry and play vidya with you
it's not fair

LOL. Marín Karin is the least of FES's issues. The game needs a complete overhaul to be enjoyable.

dude its garbage the only reason people find it good is because it appealed to edgy teens who grew nostalgia for it.

holy fucking cringe

>Marín Karin is the least of FES's issues.
AKA: it has no issues.

>The game needs a complete overhaul to be enjoyable.
literally false. It used to be the very best Persona game, through and through.

>edgy teens and nostalgia
Fortunately I'm not a Generation Z underaged/b& faggot, and played the game for the first time at the age of ~25 or so.

...

You could easily play FES after 5. You might not have the best time with it but it would be because the game's got issues in every corner of it, and that's the case whether you play it before or after P5. A remake would be a waste of time anyway because it wouldn't be able to fix a lot of the game's main issues without completely restructuring the game, not to mention they have other games like SMT1 that stand to gain much more from a remake, so they should do that if they want to remake something.

>AKA: it has no issues.
LOL. You are the most deluded P3fag I've met so far.

I played the game recently for the first time and the only offensive thing about it was the ridiculous pacing. Despite that and its other smaller flaws I still enjoyed it a lot, and it probably has my favourite characters, atmosphere and themes in the series.

the silly NEET is also a good girl. I want to head pat her.

>best persona game
>when p2 exists
and it's filled with flaws, boring and cliche characters. Awful, broken combat where you can't even control the party, and even if you did the combat is just spamming the weakness over and over without giving the opponent a turn. It isn't fun

I cried a little at the end because Anne wasn't real.

Persona 5 was fun but its writing was fucking horrible you mongoloid. Read a book.

>the game promotes pedophilia
nice!

SMT1 wasn't interested in the fucking remake poll tho. And no, going back from dungeons to no dungeons, and from a fluid direct party control system to a menu driven AI system is a huge pain in the butt.

...

General waifu threads are one thing, when topic is serious, people actually talk about something more than girls. I didn't see anything interesting in /pg/ through like two weeks I lurked it, though.

That's persona for you. They all have fuck awful anime writing.

>when p2 exists
pffffaHAHAHAHA!


>and it's filled with flaws, boring and cliche characters.
you describing the whole series there mate?
>Awful, broken combat where you can't even control the party,
Yes, you can control the party.
>b-but muh direct controls!!!
Look at this casual fag, being unable to issue orders and control team composition flawlessly.

The most down to earth Lovers I was actually surprised how she turned out. I thought she's be a stuck up when I first saw the trailers.

>its English localization is fucking horrible
FTFY

>Read a book.
Books ended being good decades ago. It's all literal Harry Potter and GOT tier trash these days.

I waifud kawakami, did I make a bad choice? Her rank 10 ability is great. Could have romanced more girls but the game warned me there would be consequences

>did I make a bad choice
Yes

It's writing was fine. it wasn't masterful, but it wasn't awful.

>SMT1 wasn't interested in the fucking remake poll tho
No shit, P3's much more popular than SMT1 and people like to have remakes of things they already like. Why they want that over a remake of something that didn't live up to its potential but could with a remake is beyond me. If they remade P3 they would probably still give it randomly generated dungeons because Tartarus is huge and and they're not going to handcraft each and every floor of it. Even if they did it would just be like P4G's premade dungeons where it's just premade corridors that are no better than the randomly generated dungeons. Getting used to the AI isn't that bad. A remake also wouldn't change the game's pacing or largely shit S. Links which are its biggest problem.

Dating used goods it's always a terrible choice.

I think 3 and 4 never played 1 and 2 have objectively better writing than 5.

P5 is directionless. It feels like the writers had several ideas of how the story should have gone and never quite agreed how things will end up. P4, I think, is the most cohesive of all.

That's wrong you illiterate retard. Don't read popular books. It's like saying cinema is dead because every retard watches capeshit.

they know their audience

Not a bad choice, but Futaba's just 2cute to not waifu. Fuck you Shoujiro, I'm boning your mini adopted daughter all I want, and she loves it!

It would fix the god awful combat and maybe just maybe add more diversity to tartarus and its bgm. That alone would make P3 way more bearable than it is.

>P5 is directionless. It feels like the writers had several ideas of how the story should have gone and never quite agreed how things will end up. P4, I think, is the most cohesive of all.
I've played all of them (never beat P1), but that's some major bullshit right there.
P5 has the most cohesive, fluid and captivating story of them all.
The previous games' TV and movie adaptations sucked a bit because the games' plots were so bare bones, but P5 I can see getting a great adaptation because of its good design.

>god awful combat
it's generic JRPG combat. WTF are you saying?

If all a remake can provide over the original version of a game is being "more bearable" then it's not a remake worth making.

I agree, but it's not like baby's first existentialism and SoL: The Game are much better.
They're all just different kinds of bad.

>P5 has the most cohesive, fluid and captivating story of them all.
Did we play the same game? It falls apart after fucking Kamoshida.

Yeah this. Didnt like a single one of those games and barely anything in that year for that matter. Witcher 3 is the last videogame that I can say I loved without doubt, but anything else has been disappointing.

No shit, but has that ever stopped a company from shitting out a remake? Get real.

>It falls apart after fucking Kamoshida.
I see this same sentence get copy-pasted all the time now. You samefagging this hard?

>huurrrrr, i'm so dumb i let AI make decision for me. me no like having input in game because me simple man
dude just admit its backwards, cause it is and at least the dev team realized it was and fixed it.

In what way is P5 directionless? It's main plot doesn't get introduced until towards the end of the game but that was just because they took an episodic approach to avoid the kinds of pacing issues you see in P3. It's thematically consistent throughout otherwise and I can't think of any plot points brought up and dropped are anything of that sort. The only thing a little like that was Goro saying the PTs are immoral and then not much of a counter being brought up, but even that was acknowledged, it just wasn't as prevalent as I expected it to be.

nice strawmanning.
Good heavens a game dares to have an unique design and make you actually FEEL like a Leader of a group, not an all-mighty god controlling their every move.

I actually played and enjoyed P4 with automatic team mates.

No, but I didn't say they're not going to make one, I said it would be a waste of time if they did.

That's not what samefagging means. I've probably said it once or twice because it's true. Kamoshida was great. A local villain you can dislike who is an immediate threat to your characters.

Shido is a non-villain. The bad guys before him all feel like fucking cartoon characters. The "twist" at the end is okay, but it would have been better if it was reinforced by more compelling villains in a less episodic and obvious way.

>it FEELS like being a leader
>a leader can't just tell the party what to do
the only thing I learned is that AI is retarded at decision making. also I don't care about immersion which is what you're implying with not having control over party members, I care about quality, which is what P3 lacks a lot of.

>Shido is a non-villain
yeah, he's an embodiment of real deal tyrants.

>The bad guys before him all feel like fucking cartoon characters.
Madarame's museum was superb, and he too is a pretty believable con artist. And after that we pretty much just have Kaneshiro, the only heavily cartoony foe.

Makoto is the cutest!!

>the only thing I learned is that AI is retarded at decision making
translation: I cannot prepare my team in a smart way.

>I don't care about immersion
and you expect anyone to care about your opinion after saying that?

>I care about quality, which is what P3 lacks a lot of.
Utter and total lie. The game's oozing of quality.

I dont get that 150 hours meme. I beat the game in 70 hours with all confidant maxed.

Makoto is the ROBOT!

I don't get how you can even manage to speedrun a game like this so quickly, without consulting a guide.

Man that sense of emptyness after finishing a game you loved hits so fucking hard.

Even worse when you finish late night and have work the next day. Fucks up your week.

I beat it in 90 and I was taking my time. I guess some people just take a lot longer in the dungeons.

all wrong, the only quality is in design which is the only decent thing in the game. Everything from gameplay to writing was boring and dull.

>Even worse when you finish late night and have work the next day. Fucks up your week.
Tell me about it. I finished the game at around 4AM, and I actually had to sit there and think of all the cool stuff I'd witnessed so far. Thank god it was Friday night, so I've had the weekend to recover.

CUTE ROBOT

False.

I would give anything and I mean A N Y T H I N G for P5 Crimson to have the option to play as a female MC

Why? Atlus hates yurifags.

...

I understand how you feel OP; however I have heavily different opinons. I clocked 100 hours, played on Hard, and I'm only missing the 3 NG+ trophies.

The story in reality is not really good. It has holes and a lot of bullshit. The whole "Real Akira is not killed but metaverse!Akira is!" is the pinnacle of badly executed stupid arguments. It must be also acknowledged that the story is super similar to Persona 4.

The gameplay is fine, I like the improvements on the dungeon crawling aspects. However the dungeons itself are REALLY short and Mementos is a poor excuse for "dungeon". I do appreciate that they tried to include both P4-like dungeons and P3-like tartarus. Both feel very short and easy, though.

I can't say much about the OST, since it's all about personal taste. I will say though, that the vocal songs are better and I'm sad there are so few

Ultimately I am dissapoint with P5 and I feel like a fool for trusting jp based P-Studio

>Akira
stopped reading right there

>Akira

Who?

>Akira
Lmao

I know everyone's super epic
>Akira-ing
you without addressing your argument, but know that you're right.

Persona 5 is all style, no substance.

>bad pacing
>bad writing
>mediocre characters
>worst SLs and music (talking about 3-5) in the series
>lackluster storytelling
>barely decent gameplay and dungeons even after all the improvements
>Cred Forums loves it.
Blows my mind desu. At least the waifus are cute.

yeah the story in most nu-persona is hardly anything above mediocre, but at least they tried making the dungeons not cheap, rougelike corridors, so hopefully they improve it more in p6

P3 in a nutshell.

>P3 having good waifus
the only decent female characters are the non-party social links

My only major issue with it of the things you mentioned was how similar it was to P4. The whole thing with the Metaverse Joker was fine aside from them spending forever explaining it afterwards, but that amount of exposition is something you see all over the game, I can understand why it's there, even if I don't like it, and is also not an issue with the event itself. I don't even know what you're talking about with the short dungeons. I though they were all a fine length, the only short ones being the last few but that was because you had to do them at once rather than being able to stop and leave. I'm indifferent towards Mementos. I could have done without it, but I also think there are worse ways of implementing side missions.

Yes, and? Maiko and Toriumi are top tier.

it's to hit on the cute bois, baka user

well maiko is a different story...

The stupid cognitive fake dying would make sense if they had established that such a thing was even possible before. If they did I obviously forgot. Literally any time they entered the cognitive world before that was near a place where there was enough distortion for a palace to be there. Thus, I just assumed that traveling to the cognitive world was just impossible unless a palace is present. Like, they could've done something interesting like had the distortion be Akechi's palace but no.

why is persona "good"? are you living out some high school fantasy that you all avoided because you were reclusive autists?

Well OP it's your girls BD

It's a uniquely structured series with generally enjoyable writing and, as of P5, fun dungeon crawling.

pretty much all of nu-persona fanboys.

Persona 5 helped me out of my depression and helped me go from a shut-in living off my parents money to a decently paying job in my own place with my own car and a gf.

It's always gonna have a special place in my heart because it taught me how to live.

>Persona 5
>Breath of the Wild
>Mario Odyssey
>Sonic Mania
>Thimbleweed Park
>Nier Automata

2017 will go down in my memory as a Blessed Year for videogames.

>Sonic Mania
>Thimbleweed Park

?????

things that never happened: the post

Sonic Mania was the best sonic game in years

*blunder

still shit

t.soyboy

Sonic Mania is the best Sonic game ever made.

Thimbleweed Park is the best point and click in at least the past 10 years.

>and i'm one of those people

go play nier automata
or witcher3

or suikoden 2

I see you've finished playing shadow the hedgehog

P5 was an amazing godly game in combat/style/UI/town but the writing was not very good, which made some of the teammates boring (ann and ryuji get zero development even in their social links). the writing and the somewhat rushed finale hurt its quality but it's still easily a 9.5 compared to everythign else we usually get

It's not like the past games didn't suffer from the same(and more) issues.
Persona is one of the few series that constantly gets better with each new game.

You're setting the bar a bit high there. Even GOT is too complicated for most people on Cred Forums

I played 5 on release and played FES right after, followed by 4. That was 250 hours total, in quick succession. I thought 3 was the best.

Happy Birthday Futaba!

Sure you did, user. I bet you played p1 right after and consider it the best video game ever made.

but she's MY girl!

XBC2 as well.

>go play nier automata
I will soon-ish.
>or witcher3
already did. It was meh compared to 1st one.
>or suikoden 2
maybe one of these days.

Complete opposite for me. I just want to live the exact life I had in high school except with powers.

unani?

This. The gameplay is really broken and I was expecting something more but it's literally P4.5 with a worse story. I never even finish my second playthrough.

Are you genuinely trying to say I didn't play? Because I'm willing to take pictures you retarded faggot. I haven't played 1 and 2 yet.

Check out Yakuza 0. Hooked me like Persona did afterwards.

Low standards: the post

>why is persona "good"?
Great art-style.
Great atmosphere.
Great OST.
Fun combat system.
Innovative "Pokemons" utilizing lores of every corner of the Earth.
Interesting commentary on modern society and its issues.
Cutest girls.
...
Just to name a few.

>Check out Yakuza 0.
Been planning on getting on that series. I take the Zero's a fine place to start?

not him, but my standards are apparently autistically high for most modern Xbox-generation fags, and majority of those games were magnificent.

Combat is flashy and fast but not good by any means. It's unbalances as fuck you can break the game as soon as you get your first "null physical" persona. The social link abilities make it worse and the end game suffers from the usual Heartraiser/Debiliate strats.

Yeah, Kiwami came out in August and references stuff from it. Best game in the series too imo. Yakuza 6 comes out in April.

Breaking the game with an overpowered Demon is half the fun of any MegaTen game. The only major issue with P5's dungeon crawling/combat is that SP Adhesives destroy the "challenge" of it all.

Yeah but in this game its just way too OP, pic related made the game a joke untill lvl 40.

Pretty much this, but,
>SP Adhesives destroy the "challenge" of it all.
I know many people didn't ever even see those things, be it because of their lacking S-link skills, incapability of navigating certain menu, or simply because they were poorfags ingame.

But even with 3rd tier SP Adhesive, the higher ranking spells do sap out your SP pretty fast. Obviously not even that's too big of a deal if you've Maxed out and leveled up Navi and looted all vending machines dry. Not to mention Kawa-chan's help later on.

It's not hard, but I didn't find it to be any harder than it was in other games in the series. I think I even had an easier time reflecting every attack in SMT IV than I did in P5.

The thing is that you are full of shit, user. I could understand if you said you prefer the story and/or character, but P3 is completely inferior as a game.
It was bad even by the time it came out.

>The only major issue with P5's dungeon crawling/combat

>Auto-battle for casuals
>Stealth-ambush system is a joke
>Baton pass
>broken confidant abilities
>Save points every five feet in dungeons
>Difficulty modes are fucked up, Merciless is super easy
>Majority of dungeons get super tedious and boring, braindead puzzles and linear corridors

That's not even a beginning to list the problems with the gameplay as a whole.

excellent taste

>Majority of dungeons get super tedious and boring, braindead puzzles and linear corridors
And still somehow better than the ones before it.
That's how bad the persona series was.

Agree with all of these.
I'd also like to add that Makoto is worse than Navi about spelling out puzzle solutions for you, unasked.

Not to rain on OP's parade, but I also can't get over how disappointed I was by this game.

That's what I mean you fucking retard. Of course 5 > 4 > 3 but in terms of story I liked 3 the best.

No, you said P3 was the best, fucktard.

Man your life must be absolute garbage if this is all you have to contribute

You're right but that doesn't really mean they can still be bad. Kamoshido set up expectations so high I thought every dungeon was going to be as interconnected and incorporate verticality as well.

It is the best though. The gameplay sucks in various flavors in 3, 4, and 5, but this is a JRPG/VN/dating simulator so the characters, story, and writing are far more important.

>someone talks about enjoying something
>"kill yourself because I can't enjoy anything and I wanna kill myself wahhhhh"

Persona 3 had no real ways to cheese it so it made people ragequit on normal difficulty at certain arcana bosses. I watched some streamer that never played any turn based game through P5 on hard just because he was able to abuse the s.links thanks to the fortune teller.

>Auto-battle for casuals
The auto-lock on to the weakness attack is a purely done for the sake of convenience. Casuals don't have an issue at looking at the thing that says "this enemy is weak to fire" and then using a fire skill. I could do without it, but it doesn't make the game any easier, just quicker. It's a non-issue at worst.

>Stealth-ambush system is a joke
The stealth is just a better version of the stealth in the previous games. It would have been better if you weren't just invisible when in cover, but again, it's a non-issue at worst.

>Baton pass
Baton Pass is completely fine.

>broken confidant abilities
The only issue with the Confidant abilities is that you can't turn off ones like Ryuji's instant kills and Ohya's lowered detection meter.

>Save points every five feet in dungeons
The only dungeon with save points to close to one another is Kaneshiro's.

>Difficulty modes are fucked up, Merciless is super easy
Agreed.

>Majority of dungeons get super tedious and boring, braindead puzzles and linear corridors
The dungeons are all perfectly engaging. The long length suits them being built around draining you of resources, the puzzles are simple but they're fine for variety's sake, the only annoying thing is the solution being spelled out to you even though it's easy to figure out on your own, Shido's palace was the only one with a notable amount of corridors.

Some of these things are issues or have issues associated with them, but they're minor issues. It being too easy to maintain your SP is the only major issue.

I disagree completely. P3 was such a slog to play. It could have been better as a shitty ln than a video game.
Even Raidou 1 was more fun to play than FES.

but it's fun

>Baton pass
...the fuck you saying?? That's one of the best and most FUN additions in the history of the series!

>Save points every five feet in dungeons
except in the end game sections.

You could just as easily break P3 as you could P5. I even had an easier time of it because you can just stack a bunch of stat cards over the course of the game and lump them on one good Persona so you can get one with 99 Strength easily.

I actually stopped right before the last boss so it wouldn't have to end.
I do that to a lot of games.
I don't recommend it.

>attack weakness
>don't do an all out attack
>watch it waste a turn
git gud

I literally did that with Ose and it did not work. Stats aren't as important on P3 as you think.

I know Ose sucks but I liked him and wanted to use him till the end.

>attack weakness
>arcana bosses

You never played the game faggot :^)

I did it with Siegfried and it absolutely worked. Stats are important, they're just not the only thing that's important, but

>game only has bosses
lol

what are mid-bosses?

Stats really didn't do that much in P3.

Siegfried is already an endgame Persona, of course he's going to be strong.

I think they're all slogs. Persona 3 had a couple things going for it though. I think it was paced out better because of the fatigue system that forced you to break up dungeon running into chunks, and as bad as Tartarus was, it was at least quick to get through. I miss being able to split the party up.

You are giving the fatigue system way too much credit. I think it only mattered for a month or two before fading into oblivion.

Personally loved Raidou 1.

It has a "Cursed Game" feel though, like the Digimon Cyber Sleuth games.

>at certain arcana bosses
>certain arcana bosses
>arcana bosses

Fucking reading comprehension?

>expect P5 gameplay to suck like P4
>somehow it's the best battle system since Devil Survivor

This. Especially the god-awful "stealth"/ambush system and its boring dungeons that are way too big and easy.
I honestly started to miss the old dungeons because at least they could be done very fast, without any shitty "puzzle" on your way to slow you down

Stats did plenty, again. They're not the be all, end all, but so long as you get a Persona with decent resistances and good skills you can just give him all of your stat cards and they'll steamroll the rest of the game for you. Siegfried's a strong Persona, but he doesn't kill everything in one move right out of the gate, but you can easily just give him, or any decent Persona, a bunch of stat cards and get them to the point where they're that strong.

I just wish a Raidou game had good combat. I love everything about Raidou 1 and 2, but they're just not that interesting to play. Raidou 2 has the best Demon negotiation in the series though.

you can do the same thing to arcana bosses with crit builds.

Crit builds are an advances strats, that doesn't really apply to casuals.

If they knew the strats, they wouldn't be, well, casuals.

No of those are fine. Auto battle is literally these for casuals to have the game play itself. Stealth is too easy to abuse, and you can never even get caught despite being right in the enemies face. Baton pass is fucking busted are you kidding? It the primarily reason merciless since you can rape every one on turn one.

>The only issue with the Confidant abilities is that you can't turn off ones like Ryuji's instant kills and Ohya's lowered detection meter.
>vegetable cultivation skill line
>card Duplication skill line
>traditional coffee skill line
>fucking Futaba
>fucking Chihaya
>fucking Caroline & Justine
>fucking Sadayo Kawakami
>warning shot
>fucking Hifumi Togo
>art of charisma
>The only dungeon with save points to close to one another is Kaneshiro's.
Most are close to each other. In 3/4 you couldn't get teleport where ever and leaving a dungeons had consequence because you couldn't return to the same spot and had to waste an item. P5 gives you all this shit for free. And all the dungeons after Kamoshido where a massive disappoint. They drag on and on and either wasted your time going forcing you out if the dungeon or/and became a slog because the level design never improves.

Casuals google everything.

>It the primarily reason merciless
It's primarily reason merciless is so damn easy*

casuals start on easy and follow a guide from the very beginning.

>Akechi included in any of the artwork

Fuck. It ruins it for me every time. The cover of the game is fantastic as well, except for that Goro faggot.

>Hey the game became really easy after I googled all the strats!

Well, obviously.

>casuals drop the game because they get stuck
>except they play the game on easy
>and use a guide to not get stuck
>s-shut up! It sounded better inside my head!

You are completly missing the point of the coversation, now you just randomly make up arguments.

>Auto battle is literally these for casuals to have the game play itself
Again, it literally makes no difference other than making it more convenient. If someone wants to hit the enemies weakness they aren't going to find it to hard to do because they can't figure out how to look at the enemies weakness and choose the skill they want manually. It makes no difference other than giving you some convenience.

>nd you can never even get caught despite being right in the enemies face
I already said I don't like that, but otherwise the stealth is the same as in P3 and 4 but it actually lets you have some sense of ambushing the enemy instead of just smacking them on the back. All you're going to in either of the three games is hide around a corner, wait for the enemy to turn around and run up on them either way, it's just streamline in P5 by letting you hug the wall and look at what's ahead.

>Baton pass is fucking busted are you kidding?
It's a big reward for composing your team properly to be able to keep getting criticals or hit weaknesses, which is a good thing.

>>vegetable cultivation skill line
>>card Duplication skill line
>>traditional coffee skill line
>>fucking Futaba
>>fucking Chihaya
>>fucking Caroline & Justine
>>fucking Sadayo Kawakami
>>warning shot
>>fucking Hifumi Togo
>>art of charisma
The only issue with any of these is the vegetable's coming in too late and the SP related ones making the game too easy. The rest are just an extra incentive to do Confidants that also tie together the daily life segments and the dungeon crawling nicely.

The only time I was ever surprised by how close save points was Kanehshiro's. Letting you teleport freely is an issue though. Pretty much every dungeon in the game are at least on the level of Kamoshida's. It's about as long, if not longer, than the average dungeon in the game and the level design is standard too.

It's no masterpiece

Not really.
>you can't cheese P3 so people get stuck
>but you can cheese it
>nu uh
>what are crit builds
>those don't count! Casuals are too dumb to use them.
>but casuals google everything
>casuals play on easy and never get stuck
That's the whole discussion.

Then the casuals aren't cheesing the game, someone else did and casuals copied it.

You're missing the comparision to Persona 5, where you can easily get a null physical persona and its gg, people don't even need to google that its plain obvious.

Or they can have just not include it. P5 was massively casualized from P3/4. stealth being bad in 3/4 doesn't excuse it being bad in 5, it's literally broken, simple as that. You already get a big reward for hitting weakness and crits. It just makes the game even easier the need be, and enemies can't even use a simliar system. None of those SL abilities are fine, they literally break the game and throw time management or combat strategy out the window. Kamoshida is the peak of P5. Nothing comes close to it. It has the most braindead time wasting puzzles nothing else matches the interconnectedness and verticality of it, and we can even assume every dungeons after was rushed because of this.

SMTfags and their obsession with """"""difficulty"""""" is the worst. The difficulty in both persona and SMT come entirely from RNG, stop acting like you're a hardcore gamer xD for playing the old ones that are by all measures designed worse because the RNG is more in the way than actually contributes.

>it's only cheesing if you came up with it
You are grasping straws now. Last (you) from me.

Nobody ever talked about easy mode btw faggot, I clearly talked about a streamer playing on hard mode :^)

i can relate to what you are saying to a degree. but i think you are overselling the game. it's a standard, cookie cutter jrpg. nothing about it is "masterpiece" or "special". are you in the spectrum?

Nice blog, how do i subscribe?

oh get over it you big baby.

Persona and other weeb garbage are worthless
If you’re emotionally connected to sole video game characters you’re an autistic retarded manchild and should grow the fuck up and consume actual literature instead of your kiddy shit

The only RNG related things are light and dark skills.

What you don't understand that random numbers average out. If your AVERAGE is good, you keep winning, and if it isn't you keep losing and blaming everything but your retarded self like a fucking faggot.

I emulated botw playing it at 60 fps at 3440x1440p and I was already bored beyond belief by the fourth hour. It's literally the exact same empty boring open world shit we see coming out every single day except with a nintendo logo on it this time. If this game was called anything other than zelda nobody would have given a flying fuck about it.

Are you retarded? He literally is one of those people.

you know you can rank 10 someone without romancing them, right?

I just finished at 117 hours. Grrat game. Id live to play it again but i have sone catching up to do with other games. Glad you enjoyed it as much as me!

>Or they can have just not include it. P5 was massively casualized from P3/4
No, it wasn't. If they didn't have the auto-battle thing the game wouldn't suffer from it, but it doesn't hurt the game in the least. Nobody's going to play P3 or 4, or any JRPG for that matter and want to hit the enemies weakness but they don't do it because it's to hard for them to look at the enemies weakness, go into to the skill menu and choose the skill they want to use. It's purely a tool for convenience and it doesn't make the game any easier unless you're too stupid to go through some very simply laid out menus.

>stealth being bad in 3/4 doesn't excuse it being bad in 5,
I didn't say it's fine in 5 because it's worse in 3 and 4, I'm saying that it's just an improved, less wonky version of a system that already worked just fine. You being invisible in cover is its only issue.

>You already get a big reward for hitting weakness and crits
Yeah, and now you get a bigger reward for hitting crits and weaknesses as well as composing your whole team to hit those crits and weaknesses as well as progressing their Confidant along.

>None of those SL abilities are fine
They are literally all fine. They give you the means to make combat easier on yourself and to let you do every Confidant in a single playthrough, but so they should. They're rewards for you, they should give you benefits, and the ones that give you big benefits, like Temperance and Fortune, are gated by high stat checks or money, so they give you a suitably big reward. I don't even know what you're talking about with Kamoshida's. It's good, but there's nothing special about it comparing it to the later dungeons.

>Akira

Opinion discarded

>>P5 was massively casualized from P3/4
>No, it wasn't.
Objectively wrong.

It's true. There's not even a whole lot of room to casualize it because the three of them are very easy games.

You're an ok person OP.
Keep enjoying the things you like, here you will find nothing but forced hivemind negativity

>No, it wasn't. If they didn't have the auto-battle thing the game wouldn't suffer from it, but it doesn't hurt the game in the least
5 was casualized for all the reason listed above. But for autobattle the game was already speed up more then any other megaten. Its just dumb.
>'m saying that it's just an improved, less wonky version of a system that already worked just fine
Okay but that doesn't mean it isn't broken and abusive.
>Yeah, and now you get a bigger reward for hitting crits and weaknesses as well as composing your whole team to hit those crits and weaknesses as well as progressing their Confidant along
Which again breaks the games difficultly. You already get one more, now you get a damage boosts, and even more one mores.
>They are literally all fine
No they just aren't. Stop sweeping this under the rug. They are broken.
>I don't even know what you're talking about with Kamoshida's
Remember how in Kamoshida there was multiple ways different through the dungeons to get back to the starting point? None of the other dungeons have that. It made it seems like originally you couldn't teleport at all and had to actually traverse the dungeon to get to the treasure when you can back.

>173 hours

How? I took my sweet time playing this, and I think I only got 85 or so, while maxing everything but one social link (playing blindly as well) and doing a lot of fusing. Did you play through NG+ as well or something?

>Futaba the best girl

Yes

>5 was casualized for all the reason listed above.
What reasons? These ? Because I've already said why I disagree with them.

>Okay but that doesn't mean it isn't broken and abusive.
The invisibility is fucked, but otherwise it's just a system that is already fine and is made better in 5. You ambush an enemy you get an advantage, it serves its purpose perfectly fine.

>Which again breaks the games difficultly.
I like having the potential to break the difficulty of MegaTen games, it's half of what makes them fun to me so long as it isn't just handed to you. Baton Pass supports that kind of playstyle.

>No they just aren't.
Yes they are, you haven't said once how they're broken, you just say it makes the game easier and so they're automatically bad. They're rewards, what else do you expect, for them to make the game harder? The only notably bad ones are the ones that aren't strict upgrades because you can't turn those ones off and they can just be annoying, otherwise it's a great addition to the S. Link system.

>Remember how in Kamoshida there was multiple ways different through the dungeons to get back to the starting point?
In Futaba's you can just run from the starting point to the end of the dungeon without encountering an enemy once you're going to get the treasure. How is Kamoshida's better in this regard?

...

They did it in the first palace of the game

>What reasons?
My original post

>but otherwise it's just a system that is already fine and is made better in 5. You ambush an enemy you get an advantage, it serves its purpose perfectly fine
Okay but it's still broken.
>I like having the potential to break the difficulty of MegaTen games, it's half of what makes them fun to me so long as it isn't just handed to you. Baton Pass supports that kind of playstyle
Okay but it's still broken
>Yes they are, you haven't said once how they're broken
>vegetable cultivation skill line
Even more free SP items
>card Duplication skill line
Can slap whatever skills you want on whoever
>traditional coffee skill line
Even more free SP items.
>fucking Futaba
Do I really need to explain this?
>fucking Chihaya
This bitch throws time management out the window. P5 in general casualized the fuck out of time management, it's much easier to max out all SL first playthrough
>fucking Caroline & Justine
Create OP Persona, and give free, resistances
>>fucking Sadayo Kawakami
Throws time management out the window. Allows you to do other activities while she does some, and lets you do nighttime activities you would have otherwise been too tired for
>warning shot
Bypass negotiation
>fucking Hifumi Togo
Can swap out any party members breaking team composition,
>>art of charisma
With warning shot, get higher level persona for free.
>In Futaba's you can just run from the starting point to the end of the dungeon without encountering an enemy once you're going to get the treasure
Futaba is a linear corridor and not comparable at all. Stop dick riding this game so hard.

>It's literally the exact same empty boring open world shit we see coming out every single day except with a nintendo logo on it this time.
Except it literally is not, and it manages to fix and improve upon most if not all the typical criticism people have towards the "Ubishit openworld games".
By the 4th hour, I'd not even left the training area of the game. I tackled my first major storyline dungeon quest at around 60h mark.

>If this game was called anything other than zelda nobody would have given a flying fuck about it.
This is what the nay-sayers, who clearly did not play the game, always say. All while failing to realize that even if that was true (if you REALLY wanna bring in alternative reality shenanigans to discussion), it'd still be a brand new IP by Nintendo, AKA a pretty big deal on its own.

>How?
Just by playing it? I did most Palaces with two or so visits, and spent quite a bit of time in Mementos.

>I think I only got 85 or so
I wasn't even halfway through the game at that point. And no, I only managed to max out like 8 of the S-links, so roughly half of 'em.

>Did you play through NG+ as well or something?
Nope. Only have done one (1) playthrough so far, and I'm gambling whether I'd bother doing another one.
My wife did a bit better, with 150h on her first playthru', and ~190 in total with her second counted.

>My original post
I already said why I disagree with that too.

>Okay but it's still broken.
>Okay but it's still broken
If by "broken" you mean they don't function properly then you're wrong. If by "broken" you mean that they're powerful tools, then yes they are and there's nothing wrong with that.

>Even more free SP items
And? There's three Confidants in the game that give you the means to get SP items and the only bad one is Tae's because it gives you SP items that are too strong. Haru's and Sojiro's are fine because SP items are otherwise a rarity.

>Can slap whatever skills you want on whoever
A good, tangible benefit for a Confidant, as a reward should be.

>Even more free SP items.
Again, a good thing.

>Do I really need to explain this?
I will agree that Futaba's is too strong.

>This bitch throws time management out the window.
Hers is initially offputting because of the entry fee and there's no way of knowing about how big the benefit is before starting it. Most people will miss it on their first playthrough but if you don't then it's a means to get every Confidant done on your first playthrough. That's a suitably good reward with a high enough barrier to entry that it's not something that everyone's just going to bumble into.

>Create OP Persona, and give free, resistances
A big reward for the Confidant that requires the most out of the player to complete and can also only be completed when you've reached a certain level so you can't overpower yourself early on. Again, a perfectly fine reward.

>Throws time management out the window.
Another perfectly fine reward. You're still giving up time to go into a dungeon but this alleviates it a bit.

>Bypass negotiation
A reliable means to recruit a Persona is another handy and perfectly fine reward.
(1/2)

Glad you enjoyed it OP. Now get on outta here before negativity engulfs your opinions on the game.

>Can swap out any party members breaking team composition,
It doesn't break anything, it just gives you more freedom in composing your team by letting you switch people out on the fly which is another good and suitable reward.

>With warning shot, get higher level persona for free.
A good reward, made better by the fact that they let you have a synergy with another Confidant reward.

>Futaba is a linear corridor and not comparable at all.
How isn't it? It's designed so you can go from the entry point to the treasure just the same as Kamoshida's, which is what you praised Kamoshida's for. What makes this worse?

>Stop dick riding this game so hard.
I'm not dick riding it, but I'm not going to pretend that the game is shit because, God forbid, they actually give you some tangible benefits from Confidant that fit the character who's rewarding you and offer a stronger tie between the two core gameplay systems in the game. It's only a good thing and complaining about it is like complaining about the extra experience S. Links give you in 3 and 4.

>If by "broken" you mean that they're powerful tools, then yes they are and there's nothing wrong with that
Actually there's a lot wrong with that. If something kills the difficulty how the fuck is that a good thing? Seriously it's a broken and exploited mechanic. The SP SL abilities are retarded and eliminate resource management and how carefully you have to play in dungeons. All those again, throw time management and combat strategy out the window.
And I'm done, you're clearly riding this games dick hard and can't see its flaws have a major bias towards it. You're just doing to say but no to everything.

>By the 4th hour, I'd not even left the training area of the game
Was it autism?

>posts image of a game where all you had to do to get all your hp and sp back was port back to the first floor
The ironing.

>Now get on outta here before negativity engulfs your opinions on the game.
No worries there. I'm way too old and big of a Cred Forums vet to be swayed by bitter bitches.
I had great fun, and nothing people say will change that.

>enjoying games is now "autism"
sasuga cancer generation ...

The irony here is that you're retarded enough to think I think P3 is great game because I posted a picture of it.

>If something kills the difficulty how the fuck is that a good thing?
Because it doesn't kill the difficulty. The only difficult thing about Persona games is the resource management, dying is a non-issue, the threat of playing poorly is just losing out on an extra day because you had to spend two days in the dungeon instead of one. The only thing that breaks this is Tae's Confidant, which I've said time and again I don't like. If you just want to give up the argument and not acknowledge half of what I said that's fine, but please don't delude yourself into thinking I'm the biased one when I've explained the reasoning behind my opinions.

>Because it doesn't kill the difficulty
Except it fucking does. All the SP items makes item management a joke, you can just use SP regen itens as much as you want since it's so easy to get more. Negotiation was already simple, but it becomes fucking brain dead with the abilities you get later in the game. Futaba is a joke, Chihaya ruins time management (and it's not hard to start her social link, since you can easily get over 100k yen) and buying high level persona is a joke. It's blatantly obvious that you are just riding the game's dick

You're saying it's good because it already makes a easy casualized game even easier. Stealth is awful, and it does break the game. None of them are good. Rewards don't mean anything when they break balance. Hell even in P3/4 it was possible to die on hard, you can't in p5. You get so many OP tools at your disposable, and the game just throws money, items, personas, etc, at you.

>All the SP items makes item management a joke,
The only ones that are too strong are Tae's. Sojiro's and Haru's are handy, but they don't make it so that every outing into a dungeon gives you 99 SP items. Negotiation is always simple but it's not always reliable because they give it RNG elements, an upgrade that lets you get around that is a natural upgrade for negotiation. I already agreed on Futaba, Chihaya's is perfectly fine, it's not hard to start but when you can either pay up 100k to start a new Confidant or move along one that you've already been doing and are further along in, people will generally for the one that's free and they know will benefit them rather than the one that will cost them and they don't even know how good it will be for them. Buying high level Personas is a good endgame advantage for those who put the time into C&J's Confidant seeing as you can only get it at the end of the game.

>You're saying it's good because it already makes a easy casualized game even easier.
I'm saying it's good that you're given more fun and tangible rewards than bonus experience as a reward from your Confidants. I don't think it's an issue that they make the game easier because I never looked to Persona for something challenging, the systems in P5 just serve to push the series further in the direction they were already going, as they should.

>Stealth is awful, and it does break the game.
The invisibility is awful, but it doesn't break anything.

>Rewards don't mean anything when they break balance
There's hardly a balance to break given the low difficulty of the series, which again, is not a bad thing. The game's aren't hard, they don't try to be, and they don't need to be.

>Hell even in P3/4 it was possible to die on hard, you can't in p5.
You can.

You're getting over your Persona high. It's one of the worst feelings in the world but it happens.

You might want to look into ColdSteel and Tokyo Xanadu.

>You're getting over your Persona high.
..persona high?
I've had this feeling numerous times with maaany games in the past! It's just been a LONG while.

>Series used to had zero(0) sp management
>Best game ever.
>P5 has some sort of sp management
>It's shit because it's too easy.

Bravo Cred Forums.

>ColdSteel and Tokyo Xanadu.
never even heard of those before, and they look like the most generic trash I've ever seen.

You're actually retard. Congrats.

she's a crazy stalker, that only cares about CHARM.

>expect P5 gameplay to suck like P4
what are you saying? P4 was pretty damn good gameplay-wise.

But yeah, 5 is an all around improvement if you ask me.

>P5
>SP management
I knew p5fags were retarded, but this is something else. You are literally, objectively wrong.

Do you have a single fact or even argument to back up those hot opinions of yours, or are you here for the lulz of trolling people?

I still can't fathom that people think Persona 5 is great. "Good" I'd grant, but so many story arcs in the game are so dreadfully boring, amounting to tens of hours of boredom, I cannot see how people excuse this.

>mfw there are brainlets who did not understand how the Phantom Thieves tricked Akechi and claim it's a plot hole
Being too dumb to understand Persona 5 has to be some sort of record

>9.5
Way too generous, Its a 7.5 at best.

lol okay you make something better buddy

>I'm not a newfag!
>except I have never visited any board except for Cred Forums

Autistic Nintenbros are a disease.

>Its a badly written, poorly paced mess filled with Saturday morning cartoon villains and barely developed characters
>but its cool looking and my waifu is cute! 9.5/10.

Kill yourself.

>Its a 7.5 at best.
that's the literal lowest I'd give any of the game's individual elements alone.

>you gotta visit ALL the boards to belong to our sikkrit klub! :^)

>Saturday morning cartoon villains and barely developed characters
Actually try PLAYING the game before shit posting, m8

>putting words in my mouth
>wasting time making shit up that i didn't say instead of learning code, getting smart, learning japanese, and becoming the change for a level of quality you clearly feel you could deliver if your tastes were appealed to
tick tock dude. your youth is running out. stop bitching and make something better.

>you gotta visit ALL the boards to belong to our sikkrit klub! :^)
That's exactly how it works lmao.

>outting yourself as a newfag

it's cute when some 90s kids, who prolly found this site in early 2010s, think they're now some hot shit, and use that as their "arguments" against everything.

>not knowing how old was moot in the first place
Kek

The confident I really thought broke everything was strength. Without that I don;t get a lv85 persona to beat the last boss with.

I'm just about to finished playing though the original series. 3rd game best game.

I expected to hate Futaba because she embodies a ton of shit I dislike in characters (hacker girl, internet meme humor, 'cute' social shut-in) but she ended up being one of the only characters in the game that I didn't dislike. Don't think she's even especially well-written either, just sort of endearing I guess and I liked the family unit vibe she, the cafe owner and the MC had going on.

>Cred Forums suddenly hates P5
What happened?

>suddenly
P5 hate threads started last summer.

Some of those games technically aren't 2017 games, they just took an unreasonably long time to get released outside of Japan.

Same reason Cred Forums started hating P4. It's more popular than P3.

>still responding to try and save face

Top heh

It genuinely isn't for everyone, it's standard high school anime melodrama with supernatural abilities involved and people who love that stuff will love it and people who don't won't have their minds changed by this game.

Your own fault for starting it, kiddo.
Deal with it now.

>it's standard high school anime melodrama with supernatural abilities involved and people who love that stuff will love it and people who don't won't have their minds changed by this game.
I a... what?
I mean seriously WHAT? Is that honestly how some people's see this game?
Standard and all about fucking highschool? "Anime"?

How goddamn shallow and superficial can this generation get?

I want to reply to you but I have no idea what the fuck you're saying

>Sojiro's coffee give you a SP item for free
>Sojiro+Max Kawakami means you can get a free SP item every night
>Haru gives more SP items
>Tae's fucking SP regen items you can get in the second arc of the game
If you are so butthurt that people don't think P5 is perfect then go back to /pg/, you degenerate waifu poster

Zelda games keep tricking me into playing them by looking interesting only to end up being boring.
I don't know why I keep falling for it.

That are people seriously that goddamn prejudiced and shallow-minded, that they only see a "standard highschool anime w/ superpowers" when they play P5 ?
I mean holy shit, sure it's all dressed up in a Japanimation visuals, but the game has some pretty dark stuff going on right from the get go, some that can hit a bit too close home for many westerners as well. The whole HS element is also very minor detail, merely working as a soft landing to the authoritarianism themes of the game.

I mean hell, even Yahzee, a guy who hates practically anything Japanese, was apparently all hooked to P5.

>HURRRR JUST DO SOMETHING BETTER LMAO
Not even reddit goes this low
You must have very low standards to give P5's combat and awful story more than a 7
>he thinks shit like Madarame, Kaneshiro and Okumura were developed

I've never claimed it to be "all perfect", and asking for actual arguments and evidence for your bold claims is not "getting butthurt".

Yeah, you can get SP items of many sorts, but they are fairly hard to come by, expensive, require you to waste Time, and ultimately won't be enough for all-day long Palace / Mementos trips.

All in all SP+ items are valuable rarities that most people would not be willing to use hastily.

>You must have very low standards to give P5's combat and awful story more than a 7
On the contrary. My standards are astronomically high for most Xbox-gen kids, from what I've heard.

>P4 was pretty damn good gameplay-wise.

It feels awful if you go from Nocturne or DDS to P4, like I did.

I also felt empty inside after I finished the game. In a way that I didnt felt for many many years.
Almost didnt finish the game cuz I didnt want it to end. Last time that happened was in DQV, which I never seen the ending cuz it would mean the adventure was really over.
Though in P5 I blame a good part of it in Futaba. She just hit all the weak points in my heart, and when I got done with the game it hurts cuz there would be no new cutscenes showing me more of her.
In times like this when I adore games like TES and Fallout, that you can always come back and there will be new stuff to do with mods and stuff.
P5 gave me feels that the previous games didnt, and what kinda alleviates the pain is the fact that I know this game will be milked dry and we'll see more of the characters in the future.

so you're comparing very different kinds of games to each other? It's not exactly the apple's fault it ain't an orange.

>Though in P5 I blame a good part of it in Futaba.
My african-originating brethren!
I was interested of meeting her from the get go, but everything from her introduction scenes, to her palace, to her overall mannerism won me over like an avalanche.

That being said, as much as I appreciate her existence in the game, it's not the one and only thing making P5 so damn good. The whole ride was just so much fun to play; it's fairly rare for me to find myself still playing at 3AM, during weekdays, only because of "just one more day / level / area / fusion attempt...!" mentality.

u mad?

>Siegfried

Nope. U?

>Reflect Phys & Gun
>Nul Bless (via skill) & Curse
>Resist fire & ice

>Speed Master
>Defense Master
>Regen 3
>High-end Phys attacks + Dodge/Aim boost

This fat 'fant made so many foes a breeze.

...and of course I just can't post pics today.

started with this bad boy.
Actually carried him all the way to the end, making him into an all-round attacker with most elementals in its arsenal + Angelic Grace towards the end.

The hardest part was to remember and re-equip these beasts whenever a fight ended with any other Persona equipped.

Persona 5 is the biggest disappointment in recent memory. Consider suicide to purge the gene pool of your absolute shit taste.

Alright, I played P3 and P4 before P5 was even announced and was hyped as all fuck, but to say it left a hole in your life is fucking wrong.

It had less songs than P3+P4. Akechi and almost the entire last half of the game is a retread of Persona 4, Mementos was absolutely fucking awful and no fun whatsoever.

I mean, I still platinum'd the game across 3 separate playthroughs, but I don't feel it was worth waiting since 2013 when it was first announced.

Nah. I think I'll start preparing a massive genocide in order to eradicate all of the (You)s trying to stop the gaming from becoming great again.
P5 is perhaps the first game ever to justify its 10 year development time, in spades.

I do not agree with any single part of your post.

>but to say it left a hole in your life is fucking wrong.
fascinating that you also know people's mindset better than themselves. You should seriously consider a career as a psychologist.

You just didn't understand its subtle yet deep commentary about society, such as "adults are shit" and "lol fuck authority"

I played Persona 5 first and liked it a lot so I went back to play Persona 4 Golden and I liked it a lot as well. It's hard for me to pick which I liked more because 5 is a lot slicker and has improved mechanics and controls but 4 was still good after having played 5 first.

One thing I don't like in 4 though, I feel like the non-party social links were total garbage compared to 5. Yumi? Ai? Wow what a waste of time, you don't ever interact with either character in the story basically or even see them.

it's very sad that there's such shallow people that even dare and bother to trivialize and belittle all of the game's themes to what's practically Ryuuji speech.

that's practically how things were in 3-4; they were there just for some stat-boosts and some kinda interesting sub-stories, but nothing else.

Judging by this thread alone, it seems like P5 ended up being a bit divisive title? Quite surprising, since I'd mostly heard nothing but praise for it, even from some HC anti-weeb circles, and I myself enjoyed it quite a ton, no matter my initial skepticism.

Jesus fucking Christ,imagine being that defensive and shilling a game that hard. The absolute state of P5 fags
>enjoying mementos
I guess not everyone has good standards

It's just Cred Forums being contrarian as usual.

>enjoying mementos
This. It would be like enjoying Persona 3.

>merely working as a soft landing to the authoritarianism themes of the game.
It's standard power of friendship anime bullshit user. The only interesting thing about the story is that the writers pulled inspiration from real events, which only makes it worse that the answer they have the protagonists give in response to the abuse of weak people by people in power is "dude I believe in my friends lmao, now take this brainwashing shit that no one questions all game aside from a single character who didn't really give a shit about that anyway"

Cred Forums's not a hivemind. Plenty of people here don't like JRPGs period, Persona 5 was lauded by various gaming sites as being the best thing to come out of the genre in years, when in actual fact it doesn't especially do anything revolutionary, so naturally those people I mentioned aren't going to like it and will be confused by those sorts of comments.

It's divisive on Cred Forums but generally liked elsewhere. People were looking forward to it for a long time so it's natural some were disappointed by it, and then there's just the people who don't like Persona to begin with, contrarians or people who just don't like the game because it does have issues and there's valid reasons to dislike it.

Is it possible to have any sort of differing opinion at all without you people claiming it's a contrarian conspiracy

Pretty much. It's one thing to not like the game or think that's overrated, but claiming that it's shit and/or worse than its predecessors it's just silly.

>It's standard power of friendship anime bullshit user.
it really is not, even if it kiiinda rides on that plot device.
And even that small cog is utilized in a creative way, connecting it to the main themes and mechanics of the game.

>this brainwashing shit that no one questions all game
Did you even play the fucking game, mate?
That's brought all the time. And I'd assume any sane person himself to also question the motives on their own.

>Now take this brainwashing shit that no one questions all game aside from a single character who didn't really give a shit about that anyway
This bothered me, Goro brought it up all the time but then it didn't matter or go anyway, Sae mentioned it once in response to Goro, but that's it and no one else brings it up. It's like Persona 5's main story was written by people who heard that the SMT games have a Chaos route and liked the sound of that but didn't bother to check what they're typically like and then wrote this game.

>not loving P5/thinking the previous games were better = being contrarian
Epic

The previous games didn't even had dungeons, user. That alone makes P5 the better game.

Why aren't people allowed to claim that it's shit? It's one thing to like the game even the people who do often agree that it has issues, like most dungeons being uninteresting and the game in general dragging on for too long or certain main cast members barely feeling like they're there at all after a while or the game being too easy on any difficulty or mementos being unfun to traverse?

>or worse than its predecessors it's just silly.
Why can't people criticize P5 without it's fans randomly bringing up that it's predecessors have no flaws? People are talking about P5, not it's predecessors

Same OP. I played P5 last summer. As a brit who rarely sees the sun and feels warm weather, I have such fond memories of playing it. Chilling with all the windows open in comfy shorts, playing all day long into the warm breeze evenings. It reminded me of the good old days. I loved checking in on all the characters everyday, and going to bed thinking about what needed to be done the next day. I'm pretty sure I had dreams about it.
Finishing the game was bittersweet., but everything comes to an end, a theme in the game itself.
And all those songs that I was addicted to over the summer shuffled into my playlist the other day. Was a surreal experience; I was hit by the sounds and even smells (I moved into a new house with new furniture before starting P5, weird but comfy smell) all hit me at once, like I was taken back.

Sorry for blogpost, this thread it just inline with my feelings atm too (I loved BotW and Nier too, had a great time with games last year, I thought I was getting bored of them.)

Any recommendations for games that have come out this year so far?

* bringing up that it's predecessors have more flaws, I mean

That's true, but Cred Forums usually divides based on US release date.

Because that's how you judge a series? If a game is better then its predecessors then it's doing a good job.

It might not be a game series you enjoy seeing that you dislike the dungeons and pacing, but those things were even worse in the other games.

Nupersona might not be for you.

Play Yakuza 0, it features a more fun setting to kick back and relax doing what you want and the cabaret club girl training segments are what the confidants in Persona 5 should have been more like. It does take a while to fully open up though.

user. You can disable that in the options..

Today is Futaba's birthday. Wonder if Atlus will upload a dumb video like they did with Yusuke's birthday.

>Nupersona might not be for you.
Not talking about my view of the game, I'm replying to someone saying that people shouldn't be allowed to call the game shit. Even though it has lots of flaws, many of which even fans typically don't try to deny, that could believably lead to people thinking that the game is shit.

>If a game is better then its predecessors then it's doing a good job.
There's nothing wrong with judging a game on it's own merits, that's the best way to form an unbiased opinion on a game even. If no one is talking about Persona 3 or 4, don't randomly bring it up. Nevermind that doing that just sounds like you can't think of any actual responses to criticisms of the game as it is.

>no one is talking about Persona 3 or 4,
(you) should take your time and read through the thread then.

P5 dungeons are honestly overrated. The only one that had a good design was Kamoshida's. The rest of them were pretty meh, with the exception of Okumura, Shido and mementos depth, that were simply shit. A good thing about the TV world dungeons is that at least they were pretty straightforward, they didn't feel like a boring slog nor had shitty braindead puzzles that only exist to waste time.
Also mementos is so painfully bad I'd say it's worse than Tartarus. The latter had better music

I did. The go-to response to anyone complaining about Mementos is
>w-well it's not as bad as Persona 3
who gives a shit about Persona 3, people are talking about why they didn't like Persona 5.

>Tartarus
>had better music
It had one song that for remixed into oblivion. They're both shit.

It was still better than the rest of the persona games in terms of dungeons.

>You can disable that in the options..
...you can?

I sure hope so. More Alibaba never hurts

>The only one that had a good design was Kamoshida's
don't you mean Madarame?

>It had one song
That's where you're wrong, you could change the music.

Are you retarded? You were the one who brought the mementos in the first place.
I'm done with (you)

I never said Tartarus was good. At least the Tartarus song was better, and its remixes add some variety; besides, you can also change the music. In 5 you are forced to hear the same tune that loops every 20 seconds

That's tomorrow my dude
Unless you mean Japan's "Today"

Hi OP, I agree.
I dodged EVERYTHING about BotW and it was well worth it.
Best game ever made, I'm glad I managed to go in blind without knowing anything.
Now I'm going to play P5 too on PS3. P3 is my favourite, P4 and 2 were not as good. I hope P5 is better!
I won't reply to the thread because probably some fag will try to spoiler P5, so have a nice day!

The plot twist is that you already knew the twist

Not him but even then, from what I’ve seen for around a decade, the draw of Persona was the memorable characters, atmosphere, themes, and how well they tied together. It was janky, rough and paced badly but there was something there for those people. P5 let me down in that regard. It felt like it improved on the things people complained about and was extremely polished, but forgot to keep the heart that drew people in before. Its subjective as fuck but the feelings people get from these games are always subjective anyway. Doesn’t mean people can’t stand by it.

>173 hours
did you forgot the game open or something? how can you go over 90 and not get bored, the only thing i got left is beat the hidden boss on NG+ and see all the gym events

also it didnt really that much preparation to avoid spoilers on Cred Forums there wasnt many pre-release threads on Cred Forums and most of the twists you see coming a mile away

>You were the one who brought the mementos in the first place.
Yes, because I'm talking about Persona 5? Are you retarded? If you're not or talking about his argument which is what I was responding to in the first place then don't reply to me
or give me more (you)s, whatever floats your boat I guess

Have a good one!
I used to be P3-fag, but 5 won me over.

They're people in a past thread who didn't even noticed tartarus changed songs. There's like remix that stands out. Dungeon music has always been their weak point for some dumb reason.

Madarame was just ok. That jumping inside the painting mechanics were pretty cool. I'd say it's the last dungeon in the game that is not mediocre

The dungeon music was great in p5.

>Dungeon music has always been their weak point for some dumb reason
All the dungeons songs in p4 were good. Especially Heaven and Long Way
Too bad the only dungeon song that is worth some shit in 5 is the casino

>did you forgot the game open or something?
Like I've said like 3 times now, no. I just P-L-A-Y-E-D it, normally.

>how can you go over 90 and not get bored?
Because I'm not ADHD, part of the GenZ cancer, and the game had tons of great content to dive into?

>the only thing i got left is beat the hidden boss on NG+ and see all the gym events
Same here, plus a handful of non-maxed S-links. I'll probably do NG+ run soon as well.

>also it didnt really that much preparation to avoid spoilers on Cred Forums there wasnt many pre-release threads on /v
preparing for the inevitable post-release spoiler wave was good enough reason to stay "offline" so to say. Even with my precautions, I did SEE some threads and posts, that would've been spoilerific, but didn't realize them to be P5 related at the time - thus kinda dodging the bullet and managing to forget about most of it by the time I go to play it myself.

I liked P4's better but that's a matter of personal preference. The battle music and victory animations were fucking painful tho.

Long Way is the only good dungeon track in 4.

>not liking Heaven
shit taste

I liked 8 bit hero or whatever it was called.

good job, i took my vacations to play all the game at once on release

in retrospective maybe i should have taken it slower

do girls play Persona? how do i find a persona gf?

>do girls play Persona?
You serious? It's one of the MOST fem-attracting series, next to Silent Hill.

>how do i find a persona gf?
Go to IT centric university.
That's how I did it; I actually bought the Persona games originally for my wife, and kinda got hooked afterwards.

>It's one of the MOST fem-attracting series, next to Silent Hill.
don't remind me user. some things are better left unmentioned.

You are such a nu male and this reeks of reddit or neofag. The heart of persona games is the story and characters, or any jrpg really. This games story was a fucking disaster with so much recycled text and exposition dumps that went on for 30+ minutes in constant weekly blocks. Not even in the dungeons which are used as an escape from the story and talking were safe from endless shitty dialogue from aesthetically and personality devoid characters. Go take your soy pills and find another emotional sony game to cry over, you fucking faggot.

This but unironically

you say it like it'd be a bad thing?

>You are such a nu male and this reeks of reddit or neofag.
Yeah, good heavens someone actually LIKES vidya and appreciates well done products on a deeper level. It's clearly (You) who needs to go back.

I had a birthday for my wife.

Lol you even know why your playthrough took 173 hours? Because you read every recycled text after school and coming home, and read the daily loading screens. aaah what a crook/the phantom thieves are awesome/the phantom thieves are bad/he died/shido will save us! Remember those? Remember akechi telling you how casino games work and how everyone needs to chime in to say we need a key to open a door? This game went out of its way to be a time waster where as the previous ones were slices of life with supernatural elements and trying to fit in. It knew when to expand the story or show events, dungeons were fairly divided and barely had any dialogue, and the end game stories as well as intros were more exciting or mysterious. Knock knock, your shipment of soylent arrived. Drink some and cry about how marvelous persona 5 was

>The heart of persona games is the story and characters, or any jrpg really.
True, and P5 excelled in all that with great grades.
>This games story was a fucking disaster with so much recycled text and exposition dumps that went on for 30+ minutes in constant weekly blocks
Nope. The only info dumps happened at the very end, namely in one specific spot, at which point it didn't really ruin the overall experience at all.

>shitty dialogue from aesthetically and personality devoid characters.
apparently some people just can't spot high quality and great aesthetics, even if they'd hit 'em to the face.

can we be friends?

based

>lol he did NOT skip text and dialog and use cheats!
>what a loser lol!!
Go back to bed, the school, and Xbox shooters, kiddo.

I like vidya too, but I actually have some fucking standards and don't get all emotional and shit for playing a lame and empty open world game or a bloated and easy JRPG about being some woke rebel teenager

How nice of you to make a shrine for MY wife!

Futaba was kinda of a surprise for me cuz I literally gave zero shits about her in the trailers. Not even sure why, she just didnt click with me. I was interested in Makoto, but then I played the game and the opposite happened.
Futaba is that girl who I would be able to have a natural conversation any time of the day. That one person that even when you dont have a chat going on it still doesnt feel awkward.
Comfy days playing retro games with Futaba in my room, going down to have a drink of cofee every now and then...
But yeah, my tv broke right after I finished the game and I decided to wait till the PC emulator can run the game better to play it again, or save it for P5 Crimson.

I can play gothic, witcher, banjo kazooie, gears of war, battlefield, mario, valkyria chronicles, and persona because I'm a fan of many games and genres. Persona 5 is a bloated pile of shit that is merely riding on being a ps4 game in a generation where everything is clearly biased towards the ps4 AND riding the years of hype that persona 3 and 4 created. Go back to your anime, faggot

>I actually have some fucking standards
No you don't. No need to lie.
You're just a pathetic tryhard wanting to fit in with the hipster contrarians. You're clearly the type who can't distinct two superficially similar but design-wise miles apart games from each other, as evident from your copypasta BotW and P5 bashes.

>P5 Crimson
I see this being brought up all the time now. Is that an ACTUAL, confirmed project, or some wishful fan-wish?

For a list of fairly solid games, you got some extremely shitty opinions ruining all my respect for you. Never thought I'd see a day when actual content would be considered "bloat".

I have no idea what the hell PS4 has to do with anything, especially when the project started as a PS3 game, AND was still released for it as well. It's also fairly easy to emulate because of that fact.

>a sequel receives hype because of its successful predecessors
Oh wow, tell me more!
P5 however was well worth its hype, and exceeded people's expectations in numerous ways.

>Go back to your anime, faggot
I will, but I'm not the fag here.

>True, and P5 excelled in all that with great grades
Yeah man, the story was so good, all this talk about rebelling against society and shit, it was only made better by its deep characters who never evolve in the fucking game(except Futaba, that changed thanks to magic brainwashing)

> Nope. The only info dumps happened at the very end
Yeah, just ignore all the phone chats you receive every fucking night reminding you about what happened the day before, or all the unnecessary exposition cutscenes that are unnecessary 90% of the time

>apparently some people just can't spot high quality and great aesthetics
The game obviously has great aesthetics. Too bad the characters personalities are absent most of the time

>I see this being brought up all the time now. Is that an ACTUAL, confirmed project, or some wishful fan-wish?
It's not confirmed, but given how eager ATLUS always are to milk Persona, it's not a stretch to assume it'll happen.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly.
Not only that, but her behavior is not only damn cute, but also such a nice contrast to the other "normal characters" of the game. She's almost 4th wall breaking with her comments, plans and even pure tactical thinking.

That Tachibana Hibiki voice only made the whole set even better!

Think of it as Atlus tradition.
P3 got FES, P4 got Golden, P1 got P1P, P2 got remade on PSP too.
Even Nocturne got like 3 rereleases. Strange Journey is also getting one now.
Persona 5 will surely get a new version too, probably after the dancing games and the anime.

>all this talk about rebelling against society and shit,
Yeah, you can keep repeating that same bullshit mantra as long as you want. It won't become the truth.

>its deep characters who never evolve in the fucking game
At this point, I'd question your claims of having actually even played the game .

>B-but these pointless expositions!
dear god, people in your team are actually discussing with you? How dare they!

>Too bad the characters personalities are absent most of the time
First you criticize the cast being too cookiecutter "animu", lacking charactere development, and now they DON'T have personalities?

At least try to pick up one fallacy and stick to it.

>Even Nocturne got like 3 rereleases.
....it did?
They any good or different from the PS2 original?

Dante, true demon end, and Raidou.

There was two and only one of them got localized. After the original release they released Maniax edition, which added Dante, True Demon Ending and the Kalpas and then they also made Maniax Chronicle edition which came free with the limited edition of Raidou 2 and was the same as Maniax except Dante was replaced with Raidou.

>that upwards stare act
>that "I heard men like this" comment
I literally HNNNG'd hard

Didn't Japan cried hard enough they got Dante too?

Japan did get Dante, then later on they got a different version of the game with Raidou instead. They have both versions.

>After the original release they released Maniax edition, which added Dante, True Demon Ending and the Kalpas
Well I guess I'm good then.
I got the PAL copy, known as "Lucifer's Call" around here, and it indeed has that iconic "Featuring Dante from DMC" stamp on the cover. Not bad.

thanks for clearing that up for me!

Oh. I thought they got Raidou first, but I guess it makes sense they got it later considering he's actually useful and has pierce.

>12h old thread (almost) dedicated for my waifu
seems like Cred Forums's full of people with great taste

>you can keep repeating that same bullshit mantra
Please enlighten me about P5 amazing themes then

>I'd question your claims of having actually even played the game
Same. I'd really like to play the game version you played, because the only characters that had some development were Futaba (because her dungeon was p4 style) and Morgana, because his social link was fixed to the story. The other characters had pretty much the same bland generic personality (except Haru, that was put way too late in the story, having no personality)

>dear god, people in your team are actually discussing with you?
I would be fine with it if my team didn't think I had Alzheimer and kept reminding me of everything we did the day before /talk about plot.

any uk girls wanna cosplay futaba for me?

>Persona 5 will surely get a new version too!
>tfw it'll be a VITA exclusive
>with all 3D real-world areas cut out, like in P3P, to save space and time

P4G is a thing, you know?

the original release of nocturne is pretty different from the one we got (maniax). not having the fiends or TDE is one of the big ones but it also tweaks the difficulty and other combat stuff quite a bit. For example in the original getting ambushed and enemies with instant kill magic were even more dangerous, and physical attacks and ailments generally had a lot lower hit rate (iron claw may as well have been called "give up two turns" for how unlikely its hit rate could be)

It's not so simple to say that maniax is easier though, the equivalent hard mode was NG+ only in the original and the maniax version is even harder (normal mode is much easier though)

DDS or the raidou games never got a re-release even though they 100% need and deserve one.

You need to play more games.

This is reddit

>even though they 100% need and deserve one.
Ehhhh. DDS is a grindfest and Raidou is clunky as hell.
Remaking then not to suck would require some extra work.

>Please enlighten me about P5 amazing themes then
I've already tried to do that earlier ITT, so excuse me that I'll just try to super summarize by stating that it makes great points about the various problems of modern, civilized societies, where people indeed now have a need to stop thinking for themselves. The role, effect of, and the significance of laws, rules, standards, manners, and "common knowledge" of a society are also questioned, and it also makes some stabs at religion - namely because it tends to be a strong driving force in many societies, even today.

And that's not even really touching all the Jungian psychology symbolism and themes the game utilizes thoroughly everywhere. The past games had merely scratched the surface with SOME of their elements, but P5 really embraces it all with open arms.

>I'd really like to play the game version you played, because the only characters that had some development were Futaba
yeah, it's not like practically every single character literally starts their journey with you by going through a change of heart, opening up for their true form.

>Haru
>no personality
oh you

>I would be fine with it if my team didn't think I had Alzheimer and kept reminding me of everything we did the day before /talk about plot.
You apparently cannot immerse yourself into an RP, and consider the fact that if your own security or lifes were indeed at risk, not to mention the possible fate of the world, AND (You) were meant to be the leader of the rag-tag group

>Raidou is clunky as hell.
not him, but WAT?
No, do some people seriously think that??
I played Raidou 1 for the first time just a couple years ago on PS3, and had great time with it! I'll have to get on the sequel soon.

Either you are completely new to action rpgs or your standards are lower than the average tales of fan.

I love Raidou, but it is not the most amazing game in terms of combat.

>Either you are completely new to action rpgs
Nope. I didn't really treat it as an A-RPG at all; felt like a bit more hands-on JRPG to me.

whenever someone uses "combat" as a criticism, especially toward and RPG title, I do die a little inside.

>appreciating a game
>IT'S REDDIT GET OUT OF MY BOARD

Hmm

>bit more hands-on JRPG to me.
I don't know what to say. Kudos to you?

unironically this.
I bet those fags would get a stroke if they'd see the numerous, lengthy SH and STALKER threads we've had on Cred Forums for a decade.

well if P5 is a shit game then I guess I'd better go play the rest of the series because it's been a blast for me so far

I like the parts of Raidou outside of the combat, but it does have combat and it's unremarkable at best.

P5 will be my first foray into the Persona series. I love JRPGs, anime, and modern-day heavily stylized Japanese city settings (Like TWEWY). Everyone I know who has played it has told me that they won't expect to hear from me for a few months because they're certain it's going to take over my life.

I'm hype, but going in completely blind. I wonder if I'll come out of this a Persona fan.

>DDS is a grindfest
and nocturne isn't? DDS is way more plot focused

yeah, good for me indeed.

eh, sounds like an odd nitpick to me. It's not an action game, but an JRPG. And for an JRPG, it has fairly unique hybrid combat system if you ask me.

as someone who's played 2-4 and seen some of the other SMT titles, P5 has been my very pinnacle of them all.

No? I can't remember the last time Nocturne took a character from me and I was forced to use the unleveled fuckwad.

>He doesn't use his entire party in rpgs
>In a game with press turns
>And where you can swap characters easily
>And which has hunting (and later the perk that shares hunting exp) in order to catch up characters that are behind

stop being a bad imo

I'm not nitpicking, and again, I like the game a lot but it has its issues and the combat is one of those issues. It doesn't ruin the whole experience, but it would have made the game even more enjoyable if the combat was more engaging. I'm not saying it should have been on the level of DMC or something like that, but it could have been more involving.

Look up grinding, user.

Enjoy.

Alright.
I personally think that people put way too much emphasis on combat, and especially on the importance of this real-time, direct-control style combat nowadays. It's one reason I still prefer Witcher 1 over its more recent sequels.

It's not even the combat alone. The way Raidou moves/controls is stiff as hell.

Wait, STALKER has been a decade? I feel like a grandpa now.

...

Futaba would have been a qt3.14 had it not been for her glasses.

>P5 embrace it all with open arms
>end with summoning a demiurge to take care of another demiurge
>significance of laws and rule is just your average teenage story with a nonsensical society

Are you 15 and just discovering anime games?

Futaba is for fucking losers. Makoto or gtfo

>immersion
dude fuck off thats the lamest excuse ever for annoying writing.