Videogames will never be art

>videogames will never be art

A guitarrist isn't a artist, he just playing something like a mp3 player, a composer is an artist. A team of devs is like a band, they are just doing the dirt work for the big idea.

Does this game isn't fun? Do the gameplay matter? Does being a game matter to be considered art? If you think good visuals make a game art, you are thinking about paintings and not games.

>bankrupt
>not art
What is a starving artist alex?

Daikatana.

>movies can't be art unless you do the whole thing by yourself
Okay OP.
Also Miyizaki, Kamiya, Itsuno and Ueda have all directed games that, on a narrative and mechanical level, use the medium as art. There's others, but they come to mind first.

The combination of the visuals and the amazing ost makes the game art in my eyes. I'm trying to decipher what you said; the gameplay doesn't contribute towards a game being art, it is the other things in the game that make it art.

The dirty work is just as important though

Nobody said it wasn't, but needing others to help you make art doesn't make it not art.

>doesn't count as art if more than one creator is involved
Fuck movies then, I guess.

A movie doesn't need to be entertaining, a game need. A bad movie is a poorly executed movie but still can be apreciated, a bad game is just a unplayeable mess. What a game as a media of art can do that other arts medias can't but also doesn't need to be entertaining or fun to be consumed.

Art is just an idea materilized, don't need to be fun, don't need a use, don't need to be entertaining. Games can't be that, otherwise they are bad games. There are no bad art.
If something can be replaced by a machine, so it's not creatively enough to be considered art, is just work.

So the Sistine Chapel ceiling isn't art because Michelangelo needed assistants to do it?

>if you only make one good thing in your life, then it doesn't count
1 =/= 0, fucktard. Are you saying all one-hit wonders don't deserve to exist?

art =/= artist

>A movie doesn't need to be entertaining, a game need. A bad movie is a poorly executed movie but still can be apreciated, a bad game is just a unplayeable mess. What a game as a media of art can do that other arts medias can't but also doesn't need to be entertaining or fun to be consumed.

this might be the dumbest shit i've ever read. congrats on lowering the boards cumulative IQ by a few points

>if something is fun, it's not allowed to be art
What dimension do you come from, because it must be exterminated immediately.

>no guitarist has ever written an original song or played an improvised solo

>literally implying that good visuals make a painting art, but when it's games it doesn't count

but we aldready had our masterpiece of vidya back in 2000

You're conflating "not fun" with "not good", if you want an example of why the two aren't mutually exclusive, I would play any of Ice-Pick Lodge's games. Not only do the mechanics reinforce the narrative and the themes of their games (and vice versa), but they also demonstrate my point pretty well. They aren't fun games, to me most of them are stressful and mostly depressing, but they still manage to keep me enthralled and engaged despite being the antithesis of "fun".
Also movies do have to be engaging to be considered good movies, the point is that even if they are complex or slow and plodding or dark, they still compel you to continue watching to the end.

There are good movies that is not entertaining, there aren't games that is good and not entertaining.

If something to be good need to be fun, it's a product not art.

If he wrote something, he isn't just an guitarist, dummy.

A game don't need good visuals to be a good game, don't need visuals at all really.

Are movies art?
If so then so are video games

>"a bad game is just an unplayable mess"
>game quality is completely binary, with no degrees between good and bad
Game reviewers love grading games on a scale of 1 to 5 or 10 or 100 or whatever, and Cred Forums hates those guys. If even artless plebs like game reviewers can see that there's something to appreciate in "bad games" than who the fuck are you to judge?

...

video games are video games

>There are good movies that is not entertaining, there aren't games that is good and not entertaining.

thats a matter of subjectivity. there are plenty of
"good" games i dont find entertaining, like sports or racing sims. they have good graphics, tight mechanics and plenty of replay value, but i just dont find them entertaining.

>art has to be good to count
I feel sorry for someone who allows one bad thing to ruin their entire experience, regardless of how trivial it is. You only understand things as either good or bad, with no ability to deconstruct. You can appreciate good things in something that might be considered bad overall. Also...

>good=entertaining

...is horseshit. Me and my friend plug in bad games like Dirge of Cerberus all the time, just to have a good laugh. You will never know what that feels like because you are a joyless, humorless, judgemental asshole.

What you are not understanding is that video games are simply a means of delivering an experience. A video game provides an experience through visuals and sound. A painting uses the former as a means of delivering an experience, and a song the latter.
The act of pressing buttons isn't art- that's simply the means of allowing the player to traverse a world with a story, visuals and audio. Not all games are art, in the same way that Diary of a Wimpy Kid isn't on the shelves next to Shakespeare.
I accidentally refreshed and had to type this shit twice fuck you

>if he wrote something, he isn't an(sic) guitarist, dummy.
>a person can only be one thing at one time
One-dimensional thinking, right here, folks. This guy is beneath even Flatlanders.

Okay.

>B-buh Kojima is hack tho
How is he a hack?

Everything about this is art.

>A game don't (sic) need good visuals to be a good game
...but if a game DOES have good visuals, then that contributes to it being art, just like with a painting. What is with you and double standards?

this thread is actually the worst one in the catalog right now. you all are arguing with a retarded snob who can barely speak english

There are good movies that is just not engaging, Begotten is good movie in terms of cinematography but not entertaining at all. But your first point makes me think, games can have unique experiences for a player but still need a good gameplay.

>art has to be good to count
I never said that, i said games that need to be good. You can apreciate art by their ideia even if is "bad".

You say you has fun with a bad game, but you are poking fun of a bad game. If the game is boring, you just don't play it. boring game = bad game. boring art =/= bad art.

>an experience through visuals and sound
movies too.

Since no one else is saying it, I'd just like to point out that every single one of this guy's posts have some kind of grammatical error, just so we know what level of intellect we're dealing with in case it wasn't already obvious.

>why there are no "videogame artists"
You were saying?

The same way visuals contributes for a PORN to be good. Does that make porn art? Nope, they are products to be consumed just like video games.

Or maybe there isn't just US on Cred Forums, dummy.

2D Boy/Tomorrow Corporation.

who?

The interactivity and user input IS the art, you fucking moron. The devs design and limit every single thing you can do in the game. They can give you huge choices to make, reward you or punish you for you actions. Same as what might happen to a character in any book/movie/play, only it's you.

>"games can have unique experiences for a player but still need a good gameplay (sic)."
I think Ico has terrible gameplay, but I still enjoyed it, and it's still art, and I don't regret experiencing it at all.

>I never said that, i (sic) said games that need to be good (sic)."
...but in your first point in you implied that art does have to be good, and not just entertaining.

>"You can apreciate (sic) art by their ideia (sic) even if it is "bad."
What about DmC? There's a reason why people still debate the merits of that game, and that's because it does have merits even if it is an overall bad game, so your statement applies to games and your "games are not art" argument is blown right the fuck out.

>"You say you has (sic) fun with a bad game, but you are poking fun of a bad game."
...which is fun. Neither you nor anyone in this world is an authority on what is objectively entertaining or not, or what the definition of entertainment even is. This has been understood since Mystery Science Theater 3000, for fuck's sake.

Is there not a single part of this post that isn't gravely flawed? Also, work on your fucking english, all these (sic)s are killing me.

>this thread

Can someone be a strawman if they don't know it?

I'm sorry, what are "(sic)s"?

Pointing out grammatical or spelling errors in quoted words. OP is really in no position to be arguing semantics when he himself doesn't even have a working grasp of English.

Kojima doesn't know shit about English, does that make him in no position to be arguing semantics? when he himself doesn't even have a working grasp of English.

>The interactivity and user input IS the art
But it isn't. Pressing buttons can't deliver a unique experience. It can't provoke certain emotions. In books/movies/plays, characters have conflict, in tragedies they are punished for their hubris. The user input is not the art, just a way of allowing the player to experience a story

So a solo dev is an artist then.

I'm not saying that people can't argue when english isn't their first language, but when someone can't speak the language AND they start saying the shit that you see in this thread, it's just the rotting cherry on the shit sundae.

>Miyamoto
>video game artist.
my little user can't be this retarded

Reminder that if it isn't pure science, then it's at least somewhat art.
Also the Smithsonian officially recognized Vidya as an art form.

>he thinks that good controls aren't an art form
If martial arts are an art form, than so are good controls, because they are how you express your will through your controller and into the game. Deciding what the player can or can't do and how they do it takes careful consideration, and making the most use out of all the buttons on a controller while also making it feel intuitive takes creativity, thereby making it art. Just because you don't appreciate it doesn't mean it isn't art.

Source:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Video_Games
I got to see it myself. Pretty nice. They had demos of monkey island 1, myst, and flower.

>Forgets Fumito Ueda
k

are movies art
are directors artists?
the answer is of course, and the premise of your argument is fundamentally flawed.

Would you just fuck off retard?

>angry idea guy thread