Immersive Sim Dying

>Games flop when they don't make any profit.

the absolute state of Cred Forums

All three of those games were great

The problem is that gamers are being dumbed down in modern society by playing bullshit such as PUBG and Fortnite.

Modern players just don't know what to do with those games. DX:MD less so, but have you seen the early streams for PREY and everything Dishonored? It's just people rushing from objective to objective and ignoring the point of those games entirely.

I didn't like MD's setting as much as HR, but the gameplay is more of the same and the level design is still solid. I also got more playtime out of it

Played MD when it was free loved the gameplay and side missions buy all the DLC. Set up the next game with Adam hinting he knows Delara is an illuminati agent.

They got finish the trilogy or at the least write another novel like Black Light

>You need to have a high iq to appreciate a fucking first person shooter with basic rpg elements and level design that is still on the simplistic side
fuck off

I got Mankind Divided for free,is it good?

>TFW one of your favorite franchise is too niche to even potentially continue. Fuck I hope Squienix funds a third game fucking tac on a multiplayer if you have to

I think you underestimate how stupid gamer's are these days. They get stuck on the simplest of missions but it's easy to just run and gun an opponent in some multiplayer shitfest. Camp out here for 10 minutes and then ambush your opponent? No problem LOL ez

Now go craft a Neuromod but first enter Doctor Calvino's laboratory and grab his id card in Prey. Can't find the keycard? Aww.... too bad retard.

because as soon as something doens't fit into a mold people get lost

PREY was goty for me

Kingdom Come: Deliverance says otherwise.
We just need more actually competent devs to make them.

Publisherless AA games are the future

I certainly hope so. Last gen tried their damndest to kill them as well as the entire middle budget category.

>A game sells well
>Company makes more because people bought it and they made a profit
>Game doesn't sell well
>Company cans it because they're not making money and companies are buisnesses
Yes user. If a game isn't profitable it's called a flop. Did you just wake up or are you always a retarded shithead?

?

or maybe those games die out because they're featuring shit-tier gameplay

It's really up to the developers to make that step
I bet even Deus Ex devs(if they are passionate about it) can croudfund a Notdeus ex game(with no voice acting, simpler graphics and so on)

Maybe square shouldn't have cut half of the fucking game to sell it as dlc and have single player Dlc for consumables(they were not necessary because the game is easy as fuck but it turned a lot of people off) and Bethesda should have made actual good games and marketed it well. Prey looked like the most generic shit ever and dishonored ran like shit.

They don't seem interesting at all to me though. So somethings wrong, for sure. I like games LIKE that (System shock 2, Deus Ex, Human Revolution, Thief, even Bioshock) but these don't really interest me (especially Prey looks utterly boring).

Honestly
It's their shitty design
yep Dishonored, Dishonored 2, Prey, they all have that shitty design(for characters) that REALLY turns you off

>with no voice acting
deus ex 1 had voice acting
who makes a first person game with no voices

>Publisherless AA games are the future
literally don't exist outside of kickstarter campaigns but that limits you to bad nostalgic remakes

>badly crafted single player linear SJW fantasy infested games

FTFY

>Immersive Sim Dying

Or they were just not very good games. Consolized, streamlined, not doing anything new. With mechanics we've all seen before but now done worse.

Someone who cant afford it?
no voice acting is better than shitty same voices everywhere

>Make a turd
>It tanked
>Single player is dying

>Immersive sims have never been mainstream
Bioshock begs to differ

How the fuck do you know they flopped when you don't know the budget?

BS, Subnautica is a good example of an AA game that did well and was a good game. Playing it at the moment and it is very good.

>DXMD
>not even half a game, side quests better than the main story. squenix wanted to go full ubi yearly turd with the series
better off dead

>Dishonored 2
>slap in the face insulting rehash of the first game's dlc, DOTO further flushes all the characters down the toilet; outsider goes from indifferent trickster demi god to poor kid victim of a cult, daud goes from anti hero to all blame everything on the void
better off dead

>Prey
>a woefully mismarketed pretty good game
what a shame

These games didn't do so well because Bethesda only markets their in house studio games well.
It probably also has a lot to do with their stance on not giving game critics review copies of games too.

Don't forget the System Shock 1 remake that was literally canceled because no publisher was interested in it

They would've been better off making something less dark.
Immersive sims to me is being able to do a lot of different things with the same objects, and BotW somewhat touches on that except that it's a shitty open world meme.

Deux Ex was chopped of to sell DLCs
Dishonored 2 wasn't interesting
Plus both games have SJW tier marketing

where did they get the money?

Wasn't it canceled because the devs didn't know what to do with it?

>They would've been better off making something less dark.
What's dark? The nigress from Dishonored 2?

Wtf is immersive sims? Those games are first person shooters with RPG elements.

By selling Natural Selection, maybe?

Dishonored is really gritty and Prey has jump scares in a deserted space station. For not being horror games, immersive sims are the scariest games I've played.
The ambiance in Thief Gold makes me not want to play the second mission at all.

>Deus Ex Mankind Divided
>RPG with stats, dialogue, side quests, cities
>Prey
>ummmm you collect weapons and ummmm shoot things
How is the fook is this supposed to be one genre. Desu is an RPG, it's not immersive anything.

It was cancelled because the """devs""" squandered their kickstarter money trying to make a new game instead of just doing an HD remake.

no one plays 1st person campaign shoots (THAT AREN'T OPEN WORLD LIKE FAR CRY)
its crazy to think Bioshock was one of the games that defined the 7th gen, and its genre is already dead

People always say video games can be art, and tell great stories, but no one is interested in video games where the story has as much care put into it as the gameplay

Nightdive were fishing for publishers to fund the project, but nobody bit.

Prey is amazing unless you're a brainlet. it's true there could've been a more diverse range of enemies but it's not the point

Revil 7 is doing money

Kickstarter I guess? I don't know, how is that important?

None of the Bioshock games are art, what the fuck

Also check System Shock 2's ending - stories were never super important to these games

>None of the Bioshock games are art, what the fuck
thats not really my point

suckers who bought into it's early access for 2 years

A decent publisher wouldn't touch those retards after doing their due diligence of the company. They tried getting a publisher because they ran out of runway. They ran out of it because they tried making a new game.

kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/2115044

I don't know anything about Deus Ex and I don't know what you mean by SJW tier marketing since both Prey and Dishonored 2 barely had either.

Yeah, but that's because it's a horror game, as well as being popular on Twitch/Youtube.

>bioshock
>emergent gameplay

Have you even played it? Infinite was a corridor shooter

only one of those games is good so

Did Witcher 3 Flop?
DID divinity Original Sin 2 Flop?
Did Fallout 4 Flop?

Bethesda doesnt understand that for a singleplayer game that arent your average casual variety, It needs to have FANSERVICE/WAIFUS

It doesn't look fun though. Why would I even go through the effort of getting a game if I don't even want to play it?

>Bethesad releases Dishonored Death of an Outsider, Prey, Evil Within 2, and Wolfenstein 2 in the same year
>only real marketing for these games is an E3 a year before
>none of these games could sell 1 million
good thing Skyrim sells hotcakes even now or they'd be in trouble

So you want to be challenged without challenging yourself? What kind of fucking logic is that?
There's nothing but good that can come from a game that gives you 900 ways to finish your mission, and if you're looking for a challenge then only do the ways that are challenging you dumb faggot.

Prey mostly got fucked over because of how they reused the same title with no previous relation to the first games.

Then people just didn't give a fuck.

because nobody asked for dishonored 2
prey had shit marketing, I legit forgot it was even coming out
DE:MD had good initial sales but bad word of mouth since the game was basically cut in half.

KC:D is an obvious example that a market still exists, if the game is done properly

>It doesn't look fun though
if exploring in and around a giant space station while trying to figure out what caused everything to go to shit doesn't sound fun to you then you may as well accept that you're a brainlet.

>Did Witcher 3 Flop?
>Did Fallout 4 Flop?
open world RPGs, more money to make but all that sells.
>DID divinity Original Sin 2 Flop?
it also was funded on kickstarter, other games like it that haven't been crowdfunded have flopped

>because nobody asked for dishonored 2
the fuck are you talking about, Dishonored 1 was one of the best games of its gen, of course its fans wanted more

Well make better immersive sims then god damn it.

>Well make better immersive sims then god damn it.
did you even play them? define "better"

BOTW was the next step in immersive sim genre.

I want the game to be built to be challenging enough to be fun. Handicapping myself is the antithesis of fun. My purpose as a player is to complete the game, when the game is done then I am done with the game. If a game gives me all the tools to just stroll through the game from the start then I will be extremely bored with the game, and no amount of trying to play the game with my feet or whatever the fuck will help that.

god you nintendo shit heads are retarded

Good. The modern attempts at this genre have all been legitimate shitfests.

I remember them marketing prey as some dude bro game and when it came out it was almost completely the opposite. For me prey is a fun game except for those fucking anti grav tunnels which I find just retarded.

Can we go back to calling them FPSRPGs? Immersive sim makes no sense.

>because nobody asked for dishonored 2

Immersive sims work really fucking badly with the current handholding mainstream vidya. It's the same thing over and over again - you have a core gameplay concept, and then you add a bunch of useless modern shit that you don't need. Like instant takedowns, "detective vision",regenerating health, a half-assed magic/ability system that always ends up either broken as shit or so weak it's unuseable.
And of course, REALLY fucking shity AI. So you have games that are on paper supposed to be one thing, but to keep things easy they add a bunch of useless shit, turning the whole game into some sort braindead walking simulator with occasional button prompts to kill people.

the only nintendo game i've beaten is super metroid

I've done that X amount of times before, it is nothing new. I'd bet quite a bit that it was done better in SS2 as well.

What I've gleaned from videos: The space station looks boring. The enemies are beyond boring, I don't even understand how you can design such boring enemies. It's like they just gave up.

Why would I spend my time playing a game that looks so dull? Do you go to the cinema to see the first half of movies that look like crap just because "you never know"? No.

Dishonored 2 have the stronk womyn meme going since the beginning, plus the stronk black womyn as DLC.
There was nothing of that crap in D1
Deus Ex have the Augment Lives Matter controversy before launch
People are fed up with that shit already, stop pandering to internet SJW, they aren't buying your games and never will

why are you making it seem like i'm telling you to play the game? i've already realized you're a brainlet and have moved on

They all did poorly because of marketing.

Because you are butthurt about a person not being interested in a game for some reason.

every single quest sending you to the opposite side of the station and back got on my nerves pretty quickly and you could pretty much access anything just by using matter grenades, toy crossbolts or high level hacking.

>entrance to area is blocked by a bunch of junk you can't push through
>could do something elaborate like foam hop your way up a wall and then turn into a cup to slide through a vent on top of the room
>or i could just throw a recycling grenade and erase the blockage

I guess I'm not the intended audience here but if you make it so every room has 5+ different ways you can get into but you can just hack or recycle your way into 95% of them then it feels like there's very little reason for me to switch things up when they don't really change anything.

how can a genre die if it's not even a real thing in the first place

so what game like them has sold well with better marketing?

Prey was too spooky for me.
Dishonored 2 just felt bad, I enjoyed the fuck out of the first game, but couldn't for the life of me get into the 2nd one.
I enjoyed dudesex

Mankind Divided was an unfinished game and just felt like a Human Revolution expansion instead of a full fledged sequel, it deserved to perform poorly.

>resident evil 7
>hollow knight
>zelda botw
>mario odyssey
>nier a
>crash bandicoot
>undertale
>metroid samus returns
>cuphead
>nioh

Now you'll trigger the "challenge yourself"-retard.

the first half of Dishonored 2 can be lame but the second half kicks it into overdrive with the creativity and level design

>larianiggers will defend this

Get the hell out of here, Morrowfag

I thought we left this kind of shit behind in 2007.

Prey
>a sequel to game that sold badly
>released 5 years after its marketing push
>10 years after first game
>a sequel only by the name
>surrounded by a reboot controversy and development hell rumors
>didnt attract the fans of the first game
>badly written
>cant decided if its a stealth or a shooter game
>"its all a dream" story
>shits out plot in first 30 min and has nothing more to say for 15 hours
>lukewarm reviews at best

Dishonored 2
>another sequel that took too long to come out
>also badly written, even worse than Prey in that regard
>nonsensical idiotic premise
>retcons up the ass
>rehashed plot, rehashed gameplay
>failed to innovate or improve on its core mechanics
>awful performance on pc, borderline unplayable until patched
>not much better on consoles, since then improved
>poor marketing campaign
>dropping of the main recognizable VA from first game

Deus Ex Mankind Divided
>yet another sequel 5 years apart from the previous entry
>and yet again bad story while being story focused
>half a game
>changes to voice actors
>abandonment of characters and plot threads from the first game
>fails to resolve any questions form last game while adding more

All 3 share problems.
Took half a decade or more to come out making people who played the last game lose interest or even stop playing vidya to focus on real life overall. If you were 18 when prey 1, you would be 28 when the sequel came out.
All 3 share bad writing and characterization, they fail to improve on the previous entries and in came of the latter 2 somehow manage to ruin the existing characters already in the lore while introducing new pointless ones.
All 3 fail to reach out to the people who played previous games, in fact they seem to active want to discouraging those players form coming back, be it by shitting on the original like like Preys case, or doing small things like kicking out VAs for silly reasons, or completely retconing the endings people worked on.

Its not the market, its the games.

And yet System Shock 3 and Underworld Ascendant are both still in development.

You mean the one Nightdive Studios was working on, or something else? Afaik they are still working on that.

Prey isn't a sequel.

>Immersive sims have never been mainstream

Ultima Underworld outsold Wolfenstein 3-D in 1992.

Under the shitty and ambiguous definition of the made up immersive sim genre
>not immersive sim
>not immersive sim
>it's not
>no it isn't
>hell no
>you're adding random shit now
>fuck no
>fuck no
>what the fuck are you even spouting
>no

Resident Evil 7 is the only game there remotely similar to the OP games

Prey literally has nothing to do with the original outside of the name, it's not a sequel or even a 'spiritual sequel'.

>singleplayer is dying
>multiplayer is flooded with cheaters and ((optimized)) netcode

look past your ideology

>Under the shitty and ambiguous definition of the made up immersive sim genre
defining an immersive sim is crystal clear
they're games made by people from looking glass

>Its not the market, its the games.
Mass Deffect: Androgyny sold a lot
Yearly Cawadoodies sold a lot

assuming you're replying to hereonly 1 of those games is even similar in the same ballpark and that would be Resident Evil 7, but lets also add reasons why they sold better
>>resident evil 7
7th installment in a long running series, and even then it sold below expectations
>>hollow knight
indie game, even if it sold a dozen copies it would have been successful
>>zelda botw
>>mario odyssey
do i really need to explain?
>>nier a
platinum action game. p action games don't really sell that well either though so i can give this one i guess
>>crash bandicoot
remake
>>undertale
see hollow knight
>>metroid samus returns
see resident evil
>>cuphead
see hollow knight
>>nioh
did it sell that well?

>yet another sequel 5 years apart from the previous entry
Why is this a bad thing?

because people's hype dies unless there's a constant marketing push

If a game gives you a spell that instantly wins the game, you can't use the spell and then complain how easy it is to win the game. If you want a challenge it's as easy as just not using the "win the game" spell.
What you're doing is akin to fat asses complaining that the availability of food is the reason they're fat rather than their inability to stop eating.

No one here said that

campaign shooters are going the way of the RTS

Who cares about people's hype? As long as the game is good

moron, games that don't sell well don't get made again, whether they're good or not

these games aren't made off love

>Food analogy
I thought 'murricans are asleep at this hour

The only way I can think of making Dishonored 2 better is if it wasn't blurry as fuck AND performed poorly.

>immersive sim
>linear

Yep, those should die.

>i want all games to be open world copy paste games

No, Doom did incredibly good.
Titanfall 2 sold bad because the first one sucked, Wolfenstein 2 sold poorly because it was 6 hours long and plain mediocre.

What are some old scifi animu with lots of tits and ass?

>If a game gives you a spell that instantly wins the game, you can't use the spell and then complain how easy it is to win the game

yea, you can. If you could find a weapon that killed anything in one hit early on in something like dark souls then the developer and game should rightly be criticized for having an extremely poor implementation of game design/balance. Saying 'juST don't USe iT' doesn't excuse the fact that the developer designed it as a valid option.

swap it out for cigarettes then or whatever the fuck you want shit head, the point is that you're the one ruining your own fun, not the design of the game.

Better than on rails

Go fuck yourself, Ubisoft

Who the fuck calls them immersive sims?

It's absolutely the market.
How can you say it isn't given the last year of absolute garbage we've had shoved in our faces.
The problems you've listed with those games are pretty minor and don't even hold a candle to something like a Battlefront 2 or a Destiny 2.

and what about the faggots that want to just 1 hit everything on their way through the game?
If you want a challenge, then actually challenge yourself. I don't know why you retards need the developer to impose a challenge for you.

do you even know what on rails means, you mong.

hey now, Ubi makes some great games like Watch Dogs and Far Cry. even AssCreed Origins is good

A spell that instantly wins the game is a bad analogy though. Make it a spell that instantly kills any enemy, and give it to the player 30 minutes into the game. You are damn right I will use it, and you are damn right that I will complain that it makes the game too easy, because it would.

I don't get your logic. Game balance is useless? Just do whatever when making the game and let the players self-regulate the balance? You haven't thought this through.

>I don't like this genre so it should die
You're the reason I hate most gamers today.

the type of dips that would call Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden and Bayonetta cuhrayzee

>No, Doom did incredibly good.
it had online
>Titanfall 2 sold bad because the first one sucked,
it was set to die being sold next to battlefield 1 and CoD. EA set that game to die so Respawn could be bought out
>Wolfenstein 2 sold poorly because it was 6 hours long and plain mediocre.
i thought it was because the marketing?

Never said that.
Linear "immersive" sims are outdated. I lived through that age and it's time to admit that combination isn't all that great

I cannot put into words the stupidity of your analogies

Tell that to Far Cry

no one bought Doom 2016 for the online you idiot

correction
campaign shooters that aren't open world

A sequel should optimally build on its existing fan-base. 5 years is a long time, and those fans are both quite a bit older now and perhaps aren't even looking for a sequel anymore. You strike while the iron is hot, not five years cold.

None of those 3 games are linear corridors

Yet it rides the same name.
It was supposed to be a sequel, until the sequel got canned and the work rebooted.
This only further added to the confusion surrounding the game.
>Yearly Cawadoodies sold a lot
Yeah, the are yearly, they are aimed at a market and deliver. Dont force you to wait 10 years to get your fps fix, you dont need to look for alternatives meanwhile.
Mass effect Andromeda was part of huge successful series, one of the biggest of last gen and had more hype behind it than all those 3 titles combined. It would sell a million by the power of the brand alone even if it was unity asset flip.
>Who cares about people's hype? As long as the game is good
The invenstors do.
Games are made to sell, not to get good customer reviews,

>Prey Flopped
>2nd most sold game in EU during release week, 1st most sold during 2nd week
>Only did poorly in console Japan market
>Million copies sold at initial price point.
>Flop

Dishonored
DX:HR
Every BioShock game
Dying Light
Far Cry

Either people somehow got sick of an entire genre, or Dishonored 2's lengthy delays and hours of unremarkable gameplay shown years before it came out, Prey's lack of marketing and brand recognition, DX's brand degradation with shitty phone games. a bungled topical marketing campaign, confusing DLC practices and immediate reports of an inconclusive ending are the cause.

Those are called Spectacle Fighters

its still a part that helped market the game

Everyone here shits on MGSV but normies loved it even though it was the first Metal Gear game they've probably ever played.

That's the sad truth of it, if Arkane want to survive, they're going to have to turn Dishonored into a straight up open world "stealth" game like the MGSV or the new ass creed, they're the only single player games that sell.

No, games flop when they make less than the desired profit.
Destiny 2 flopped even though EVERY SINGLE CENT it made was pure profit since Destiny 1 recouped the investment for the entire planned trilogy already and then some.

>Dishonored
>DX:HR
>Every BioShock game
last gen
>Dying Light
online
>Far Cry
open world
thats what i'm trying to explain to these mongoloids.

Kill yourself fucking brit

Is this how modern audiences view games? I have to roleplay challenge? Are games nowadays so fucking easy that players see it as perfectly acceptable to have to play the game with your feet to increase the difficulty level?

>linear corridors

The fuck are you talking about?

Literally what is the difference? You'll use the kill everyone spell to win the game so the spell might as well just win you the game, dumbass.
It's a question of why are you playing the game? because clearly all you fags who moan about challenge only play it to be done with it and not to actually experience the world or, you know, have fun.
If your definition of fun in a game is being challenged and yet you actively choose to remove the challenge from the game, I don't understand what your grounds to complain are.

Ninja Gaiden and DMC3 arent spectacle fighters like Bayo or OG God of War, not even close.

3 games listed in OP are not that fucking linear you open world autist

I think you meant to say 3D belt scrollers.

how is any of those immersive sims

I'm not talking about stupid shit like playing with your feet. But in Dishonored the blink spell makes the game so fucking easy. You can ghost the entirety of dishonored with nothing but blink alone. Does that mean they shouldn't have included blink? or maybe the faggots who are looking for a challenge should just avoid using blink?

>Are games nowadays so fucking easy that players see it as perfectly acceptable to have to play the game with your feet to increase the difficulty level?
Considering Doom 4 is only challenging on the hardest difficuilty, probably

>Dying Light
this game worth playing? im sure the online is just dead now

>Are games nowadays so fucking easy that players see it as perfectly acceptable to have to play the game with your feet to increase the difficulty level?
Yes. And part of the problem is you also get people who only want to play a single player game for the story cutscenes. There are people who even argue that Dark Souls should have an easy mode.

>last gen
>online
>open world
And?

prey flopped because it was called "prey" and the only thing people talked about was that it was not bounty hunter prey.

mankind divided flopped because Square Enix killed interest in it by the "upgrade your preorder" bullshit, the announcement that it would be the first installment of several games which reeks of milking, and by the leaks that the game was deliberately cut short to sell the second half as a seperate game.

dishonored 2 flopped because of performance issues and the game being less story focussed than 1.

>There are people who even argue that Dark Souls should have an easy mode.
Then what is the fucking point.
The games don't even have a great story.
You may as well read the fucking wikipedia entries on item lores.

How about rereading the OP before you keep sperging out?

Is Gothic an immersive sim too?

They flopped because no one wanted them.

Kingdom Come didn't flop so there's clearly a market still there.

>How can you say it isn't given the last year of absolute garbage we've had shoved in our faces.
Like what?
I player hollow knight, nier, re7, doom4, divinity 2, pyre and plenty of other game i really enjoyed.
No clue what you mean by Destiny 2 and Battlefornt 2.
Destiny 2 is literally the same game as the first one, and people fucking loved that one.

Battlefront 2 controversy i dont get, people love loot boxes. Sure they might pretend not to like them, but they spend billions on it, in fact huge part of the player base of those games dosnt really play them, just collects in game items or trades them if games offer it.
Dota 2, cs go and tf2, all valve games seem to be as much gambling and trading games as actual games.
The fake drama over the thing gamers actually want is baffling to me. If people didnt want loot boxes and dlc they would spend more money on it than on the main game.

>>last gen
you want to tell me how making RTSs is profitable because they were popular 20 years ago?
>>online
>>open world
these factors fundamentally change who the game is appealing towards

Steam says "6,443 In-Game"

>literally don't exist outside of kickstarter campaigns
Wrong.
>that limits you to bad nostalgic remakes
Also fucking wrong.

Are you an idiot?

>what about the faggots that want to just 1 hit everything on their way through the game?
what about them?

I can only speak for myself but I assume I'm not in a minority when I say having a developer sanctioned 'i win' spell/skill/weapon/mechanic negatively impacts my enjoyment of the game just knowing it's there. It feels like it cheapens any victory or challenge I overcome because at any time I could've just used the I win feature to trivialize whatever I was doing.

Cheats/third party mods/hacks are 'illegitimate' in terms of how the developer designed the game and so they don't bother me.

bro, the online is bumping, at least on ps4 and PC. the devs are still even releasing new items and updates.

Dark Souls, despite being obtuse and demanding of the player, is still a hot property and Das3 has like 2 million owners on Steam, why add an easy difficulty when it'll probably just piss off the fanbase?

It's a singleplayer game first and foremost

user you realize you could have cheated on literally every test you've ever taken, right? Does that knowledge cheapen your passes?
I really don't understand. You're saying that the possibility of an easier way makes the challenge less appealing? Yet you actively seek out challenges in your games?

Immersive, a subjective personal feeling, somehow means "a game designed to be approached from different angles" and simulation means nothing whatsoever. It's a moronic term for chin-stroking Redditors.

it looks fucking great. only the plot is lacking. play it on max settings and enjoy prague

did you skip the part about cheating

Yes, the campaign is pretty good

First of all, you are really fucking stupid.

Games are presented as a challenge to solve by the means given. That is what makes them games. You are given the tools to complete the game, and your job is to use the tools to the best of your ability to complete the game. That is what makes a game fun. If a game does not have challenge, it isn't a fucking game, it's an interactive movie.

It's still getting free DLC packs as we speak.

But no, it's just as boring and repetitive as Dead Island, except now you can climb and there aren't vehicles (until the expansion).

>it looks fucking great
And it runs like fucking shit. Why does enabling DX12 cut the framerate in half?

I consider it non-germane to the discussion since whether the "easy mode" is included by the developer or a third party has no real impact on your experience playing the game.

no idea little lad i played on dx11 i think

It absolutely means that they shouldn't have included blink, or actually balanced the game around blink. What you are describing is bad game design. Are you stupid for real?

A genre isn't defined by the people it appeals to, it's irrelevant.

>immersive sim
lol stop doing this

But then why not also risk alienating the fan base in an attempt to reel in players who were once otherwise put off by the difficulty?
Surely just simply adding the option of having an easy mode wouldn't go against the core idea of the game, wouldn't it?

Doom did well tho

the delicious irony of you calling anyone else stupid. Yum.

Games are arbitrary sets of rules that we use to pass time when we're bored.
Dishonored is still a game even if a 10 yo could make it through the entire game without ever being hit or killed.

Your idea of a challenge being inherent to the game is just wrong.

Prey is $20 on Steam. Worth it?

>A genre isn't defined by the people it appeals to, it's irrelevant.
would you say that the same people who enjoy games like Mario Kart are the same kind of people who like Forza?

do you like the shock games
because probably if you do

>giving money to Todd, Pete, Bethesda and Zenimax
No.

Yes

JUST DON'T FUCKING USE IT!

This is insane, only you fucking autists would complain that you have to ruin your own fun if given the opportunity.

>whether the "easy mode" is included by the developer or a third party

and for me it is a significant difference. If a game is hard and there's a mod that gives you a 1 hit kill weapon from the start of the game, knowing that mod exists wouldn't affect my enjoyment of the game at all because the developer did not design the game/balance around it existing.

If in the same game the developers designed it with 1 hit kill weapon given from the start of the game I probably wouldn't even play it because that's fucking retarded. You don't seem to have a mindset that lets you comprehend why this bothers me and likewise I will never truly understand how shit like this doesn't bother people like you.

I think I know the problem with the recent "immersive sims." They're all written like crap and they have absolutely no ambition inside of them. They were made by committees and game design school graduates who have no real passion for the art. There's nothing immersive about those games.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game

"Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interaction"

CHALLENGE.

Show me a game that doesn't have ANY challenge and I'll concede that I am wrong. Challenge is a large part of what makes a game fun and if a games challenge level is too low for your skill level, then of course it will impact how fun the game is for you.

Imagine you are playing volleyball. Volleyball can be pretty fun. Now imagine the opposing team are all 5 years old. However you cut it, unless you are a fucking weirdo, you will have less fun than a regular game (as in pure fun from the game itself, you could of course derive enjoyment from entertaining children). No amount of "I'll only use my head, lol" will give you the same amount of volleyball-fun that you'd get from a normal match against evenly matched peers.

Yes, it would, it would severely damage the soul of the game moron.

>Show me a game that doesn't have ANY challenge and I'll concede that I am wrong
puzzle games, point and click adventure games

Doesn't help that all of them were shit outside of maybe Prey.

It is FUCKING THERE. It is part of the game, the developers handed it to me as a tool to complete the game that THEY designed. It is not my job as a player to regulate the difficulty level by NOT trying to win the game as well as I can. It is my job as a player to win as hard as I can. This is what games have been literally since the first fucking game was invented, not even computer game, I mean the first fucking game invented by manking thousands of years ago.

>See a friend play Prey
>They can't find Calvino's keycard
>He knows about the therminals that you can use to locate people
>He never thinks to use it
The average gamer pisses me off.

Souls games are already designed with an easy mode for people who can't beat it legitimately in the form of getting multiple summons to carry you.

How in the FUCK doesn't puzzle games and adventure games have challenge? They are the most challenging games around for fucks sake.

>puzzle games
challenge is literally the entire point of puzzle games, more so than basically any other genre

Exactly, dumbass.
I was asking a rhetorical question and playing doubles advocate.

you two are just stupid

No, you might be literally retarded though if you think puzzle games and adventure games don't have challenge.

you gonna pull the i was merely pretending card or do you actually have some kind of argument that puzzle games aren't based off challenging you?

I think I get it now. Maybe when you receive your validation from something other than your list of games you had to "git gud" at, you'll realise the point of playing games is to have fun and not to "win as hard as you can".

>tfw too smart

>yep Dishonored, Dishonored 2, Prey, they all have that shitty design(for characters) that REALLY turns you off

I downloaded one of the Dishonored games when it was free for a weekend and uninstalled after a 5 minutes of an opening cutscene. I literally founded every single aesthetic choice horrible. From architecture to clothing, body shapes, accents, interior decorating, etc. Nothing good.

>98% of open area game with different ways to accomplish tasks
>No swimming, no going underwater or no swimming based objectives
What are modern game designers afraid of?

Water levels was despised by everyone for a reason user.

Swimming is dull as shit.

Jesus you are dumb. I am a married man, dinishing my university studies in a year and I develop games as a hobby. I don't need validation. I need well-designed enjoyable games to relax with. If I don't want to play games, I'll watch a movie.

A game without challenge is not a game, and can not be a game. The point of a game is to win it, or get a highscore.

>The point of a game is to win it
Then any game with a set "win condition" is a game. Challenge be damned.

Tomb Raider came out 21 years ago. It's over, Johnny.

Deep Black Reloaded was released in 2012, Hydrophobia was released in 2010.
Swimming still sucks.

It's like arguing with a fucking child.

"Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interaction"

The point of a game is to win it or get a highscore. You can not "win" a movie. You do not "win" a movie when you see the ending. Do you know why? A movie has zero interactivity, and does not challenge you.

Give me an example of a game with a win condition but zero challenge, zero rules, zero interactivity and I'll say you are right. Protip: It is impossible to even imagine such a game.

you know how i thought consoles where safe once, only to discover even more cheaters, that don't really fall into the eye, because it's only little things they improve, but it is enough to give them the better cards. I just don't get it and thats why i'll abstain from most multiplayer games, because most people only like to be pricks that satisfy their need for compensation and not play with everyone.

walking simulator

it's funny that you think you're talking to just 1 person, and it's telling of your character that you feel the need to proclaim your opponents stupidity in every post you make.

Just a basic swim, just hop over a rail and swim into a flooded sewer pipe. It's all I'm asking.

This.

First time I stop playing a nice game because of enemies design

>highly crafted single player linear games are going the way of the dinosaur

In the AAA space. Eurojank is the future.

No, that doesn't work.

>"Give me an example of a game with a win condition but zero challenge, zero rules, zero interactivity"

They very clearly have interactivity and rules. They have a challenge also, but it is subtle, the challenge is just to find the correct path to walk / the correct objects to interact with. The challenge is VERY mild, like an adventure game for retarded people, but you can not say that they do not have ANY challenge.

Then I am arguing with two children, what a difference.

If only euros could make good combat

What? Dishonored 2 fucking sucked and the level design was awful. I never felt I was in an actual "place".

because games cant exist without funding and AA developers need it more than big ones do
which is why they either close or become AAA developers

But they have funding? I don't see your point.

>Deus Ex Mankind Divided
It was trash to, nothing better than the previous game, i will even say it was worse, on the level of a shitty expansion.

I meant to ask you, do you cheese games? Like finding a rock where enemies can't hit you if you stand on top of it? And if you do discover that such a rock exists, do you cry about how it has cheapened your experience?
or do you just not cheese the game?

...

>What? Dishonored 2 fucking sucked and the level design was awful. I never felt I was in an actual "place".
Agree,
The levels were tiny and full of blocked of streets just 10 meters long.
No matter what direction i looked i saw a wall.
It made sense for some locations like the island asylum, but as soon as we get to the city i cant help but feel like im playing a last gen game that has to be split up every 5 meters by a loading screen.

I can explain this from the mindset of an mmorpg player

"lol there's no challenge in this game, I just watched the youtube guide and then everything was piss easy"

If I need to, it was a godsend during the Yuan-ti fight in Bloodlines, the way I built my character made it (to the best of my knowledge) literally impossible to win the fight. But I glitched my way onto a brazier and from there I could bring it down to half HP by firing all the ammo from every weapon I had, and then finishing it off in melee (barely surviving even then).

In this case I view the possibility to 'cheese' as a godsend, and the issue with balance that I have is that the boss was WAY too hard for this type of game, at least if you don't give the player alternative routes around it or alternate ways to beat it. Bloodlines is an open rpg where you can build your character in a myriad of ways, having an extremely hard boss that you MUST fight is another example of bad design in a game such as this.

To answer the question clearly though: No, that is a glitch. The rock was never intended to be that way, and if I am using it I am exploiting an unintended glitch (which I might do, but then that is on me, not the devs). If glitches like this was a common occurence, I would complain that the game was buggy though.

Haven't played any visual novels, but if they are just clicking on text until you hit the end with no fail-state or challenge, then no, they aren't actually games.

What is your point? What you are describing is cheating by looking at a walk-through.

Sounds like YOU'RE wrong

Interesting.
And so despite somehow being self-aware enough to realise it's not the dev's fault if you abuse glitches you still insist it's the devs fault if you abuse mechanics.
In both cases you are the one making the decision to bypass the game's potential challenge, but for some reason having the dev intend the bypass makes it worse?

This. The most fun I have in Dishonored games is just exploring the environments and admiring the interior design. A lot of the apartments in Dishonored 2 are especially wonderful. I'd love to live in one of 'em.

most AA developers have to sign to publishers to get funding which leads to them quickly not becoming an AA developer which is why I asked where Subnautica got funded

You are saying that it is not the devs fault for implementing unbalanced mechanics. Are you just trolling at this point?

Let me put it simply. Two chefs are cooking you dinner on two separate occasions.

One chef makes you a hamburger, but he burns the patty. When asked about this, he says that he did it by design and that you should just eat around the burnt part.

The other chef also makes a hamburger. When he is cooking the patty a freak ball of lightning shoots through the window and burns the patty so that it is exactly the same as the other chefs patty. When asked about this, he says it was an accident and he can cook up a new hamburger if you want, you say it is alright and eat around the burnt part.

Which chef would you go to the next time you want a burger? Who is the better chef based on the information given?

I think you think i'm talking about mechanics that outright break a game when really I just mean blink from dishonored.
The game lost nothing for it's inclusion and only gained more fun ways to combine the games various mechanics. Yet your stance explicitly implies that a spell like blink shouldn't exist because you'd be unable to resist abusing it and thus ruin the game for yourself.

I'm saying it's not the devs fault that faggots like you can't help but optimize the fun out of every game you play.

something about this thread and retarded analogies kek

>The trends speak for themselves highly crafted single player linear games are going the way of the dinosaur.

Except they were lazy pandering and not fully fledged single player games. LINEAR is the part that they fucked up on. Think about it, Deus Ex was a fucking great series until RETARDED shit like oh the boss fights and mankind divided sucking balls. Prey, barely anything like prey from before, basically using the name for popularity, like 4 different enemies, 3-4 guns, etc, etc. Dishonored was a completely unnecessary sequel and wasnt even that great of a game in the first place.
There's so much more wrong with this than just the fact that they were "highly-crafted (no)" "singleplayer" games

Gen Z trash rather spends it´s money on lootboxes for the newest flavour of the month multiplayer crap or donates to some streamer faggot instead of buying actual quality video games. You can thank them.

My ear it's an RPG sim. It starts out with a scripted-to-lose fight!

...

>spend a bajillion dollars on a ultra flashy single player experience that is ultimately shallow and you forget about as soon as you finish it

or

>spend a reasonable amount of money developing a single player video game while nowhere near as graphically impressive, is still pretty to look at with a unique art style and you will have way more fun and possibly replay said game after you finish it

holy shit its almost as if people don't give a flying fuck about graphics or something

prey didnt flop
dishonoured series was never in the "immersive sim" genre
deus ex has always been shit compared to shock games

>It starts out with a scripted-to-lose fight!
>Said fight doesn't even happen until the end of the long-ass intro
>You're literally some blackmith's son with fuckall armor or skills going against a giant of a man with a club
>Said NPC doesn't get changed in any shape or form and is later fought again
>Scripted-to-lose

Yes, you are talking about design choices versus bugs. One were deliberately put into the game by the devs, the other is an oversight.

If a movie is shot at a 90 degree angle and forces you to put the TV sideways to watch it, then I'd say the film-makers are retards and my viewing experience would be negatively impacted.

Likewise if game developers give you an ability that makes the game way too easy, then I'll say that the developers did a bad job and my enjoyment of the game will be impacted.

nah it's more like there's an option to watch the movie but filmed at a 90 degree angle with your tv turned sideways. You could still watch the movie normally but for some reason the fact that the option exists makes you enjoy the movie less.
For some reason, you have to watch the movie sideways just because you can. And you will complain about it!

How did the Dishonored 2 DLC with the disabled black woman sell?

I'm guessing not well

This, these games didn't fail in the traditional sense, but video games have and are capable of reaching a level of success that was just unheard of back in the day aside from immense franchises such as Halo, and even then Halo has been far surpassed by modern AAA games that try and appeal to everybody to hit those exact numbers.

it didn't deserve to sell well. it's like they forgot that chaining your magic powers together was the entire appeal of the franchise.
Bitch has only 3 active powers and no mana potions meaning you can't even chain those 3 powers together that well.
Forget the story and lore, they fucked up the mechanics.

oh also calling her disabled is a stretch. She has her eye and arm replaced by pieces of an ancient void monster giving her supernatural power, if anything she's more abled than a regular person.

>She has her eye and arm replaced by pieces of an ancient void monster
... since when is that a thing in Dishonored?

No, what you are describing are difficulty levels. A more apt analogy would be that the movie is designed in such a way that if you view it with both eyes you just see a black screen, you have to close one eye to see the movie. You are damn right that would impact my viewing experience.

The ability is there. You have to actively limit yourself.

Realistically since the developer made it up.
It does fit into the lore though because the void has existed for far longer than mankind has and it's not impossible for mortals to merge with the void creating different beings.
The Outsider was the one that replaced her parts with the void entity as well, and if anyone could do it it would be him so.

>an FPS has unlockable skills
>it is now a SIMULATOR
Hello fellow simulation enthusiasts how's you simulating going today

dishonored has difficulty levels, that's not what I'm describing.
Blink exists regardless of if you play on easiest or hardest and it trivializes the hardest difficulty if you abuse it. You can spend the entire game in stealth blinking then waiting 10 seconds for your mana to recharge then blinking again, avoiding combat the entire time. You can win like that, you'll even get the good ending. It won't be fun but it's your choice.
You could also do the opposite and just murder everyone you come across run n gun style.

Or you could make the game actually challenging and play without using your magic powers while trying to ghost.
If you like challenges then the last style is for you, but it doesn't detract from the games enjoyment that it's possible to play in different, easier ways.

whoever forced that meme should suffer

I like to IMMERSE myself into the SIMULATION of a mediocre shooter with some skills in it

you have to place some absolutely extreme restrictions on yourself to make dishonored difficult
no powers ghost with no knockouts might be hard

Except last good shock game was System Shock 2.

>if you want the game to be difficult, just don't use the games mechanics lmao

Bad game design

I love the identifier "immersive sim", it tells me "we've got stealth and shooting and neither is good"

>immersive sim
>it's not immersive
>it's not a sim

hand the System Shit IP over to anyone other than arkane. arkane can't make anything other than pure garbage.

Kingdom Come Deliverance is a huge hit

I don't mind if Bethesda or Square never produce another immersive sim again, they're horrible soulless corporate fuckwads, midsize eastern euro studios can pick up the slack

Shame about Arkane, but they knew (((who))) they got into business with

>What is your point? What you are describing is cheating by looking at a walk-through.
That is my point. I used to love playing mmorpgs for the sense of exploration and figuring out encounters, but these days the entire playerbase simply kicks you for not having a certain gearscore, a clear achievement and not having seen the walkthrough, rather than being willing to actually play the fucking game

It really sucks that Prey 2017 won't get a sequel, one of the best games of 2017 IMO.

How do you know it wont? It mightve not gotten call of duty-sales but it was still a critical and a commercial success

Yes, and all this you are describing is bad design. It absolutely takes away from the experience to have to gimp yourself to get any kind of challenge. People that enjoy do do such things as "win Dark sould blind-folded" etc are a minority, and it is this mentality you are describing.

I have a feeling, because DLC was "planned" but never got a release. Also from what I heard it wasn't a commercial success?

It's social media that's driving the push to online only, open world games. Game devs want a huge online open world experience that will let them sell shit so gamers can share their digital items with others. They want to ride the silicon valley connectivity bullshit. They want a game they can make once every 5-10 years and continuously make money off it during that time. TF2 is/was a standard for this. Imagine developing a game, putting minimal effort into keeping it going, even going so far as to let the community make content, then selling shit in it for 10 years. Bungee wanted in on it. Blizzard got in on it. Bioware will get in on it. Valve and Bioware originally being single-player games like Half-Life and Mass Effect. Bethesda tried to do it with Quake, another single-player RPG/FPS developer.

The future is online-only games. Single-player RPG hybrids will be a niche like platformers or fighting games.

>Showing the final decision.
>Not mentioning the fact they spend several minutes evaluating every major thing you did in the game including optional objectives which can colour those two choices in multiple different ways depending on the player.
This is legitimately a case of that shit done right, it's a binary choice but your reasons for making that choice aren't so binary.

They were all kind of disappointing. Just a bad year for games in general

Immersive sim is a meaningless category. What isn't an "immersive sim" these days? Most games strive for that title, even multiplayer games. They're not "dying", they are almost the only type of game you can get these days.

New-Prey attracts the worst kind of brainlets, user. Don't bother

He was probably talking about 1. Don't be a shit.

problem with dishonored is that stealth without powers is bare bones as fuck so the game sucks even if you try to challenge yourself

>Just a bad year for games in general
What, 2017? What the fuck are you talking about son

>Immersive sim is a meaningless category. What isn't an "immersive sim" these days?
immersive sim has had a clear definition ever since that term was coined, dunno what the fuck youre talking about

'flop' is hyperbole. day 1, week 1, month 1 sales are less relevant than ever. many games now outdo their day 1 sales months/years later even.

>many games now outdo their day 1 sales months/years later even.
Citation?

No, i need to understand how fucking dumb someone can be to hear characters literally spell out THIS IS WHAT HE DID, THIS IS WHY I THINK IT IS GOOD/BAD, and still think that final choice is on par with Deus ex / mass effect endings just because your very last input is two buttons.

Deus Ex flopped cause it's a bare bones, rushed out sequel with no real improvements.
Dishonored 2 flopped cause it got stealth released in between the big hitters.
Prey flopped because it was called Prey...why the fuck did they call it prey when it isn't related to Prey?

It's a very stupid term that no longer makes sense. Tons of games combine genres these days and attempt to simulate an immersive environment, it's nothing special.

b-but I love those games made by Arkane. I was hoping for a Prey 2.

>Deus Ex flopped cause it's a bare bones, rushed out sequel with no real improvements.
Nigga, fuck you. MD improved on HR in every department except for story and character. There's more stuff to discover, more options to tackle different situations and generally more freedom.

Open world is the future and these studios need to adapt asap

Is Dead Space an immersive sim?

it makes sense when you understand that genres are more about the lineage of a game than how it actually plays
its not like you roleplay in RPGs anymore

SO WAS I
NOW FEEL MY PAIN YOU SCUM

Why the fuck did Prey flop?
I can understand Dishonored 2 because it was straight up unplayable on release and performance is still pretty shit at some places, but why Prey?

"immversive sim" refers to a specific design philosophy (or style if thats too pretentious) coined by looking glass studios. a game isnt an immersive sim just because it has a bunch of rpg shit thrown in it

Can you interract with the environment and is it clustered?

It didnt flop

I immerse myself in the feeling of having motor control malfunction that prevents me from moving at a sensible pace

You can use telekinesis on objects and slow them down using stasis, but that's pretty much it.

maybe you should fucking play Prey before shittalking about how it "looks" boring, pro-tip: it isn't

Bad marketing and Bethesda's review policy fucked them in the ass. It also had some horror elements which may have put off a lot of potential customers.

>It starts out with a scripted-to-lose fight!

So does Baldur's Gate.

The few horror elements that were present were not loud enough to be streamer-friendly.

>It also had some horror elements which may have put off a lot of potential customers.
The game has no horror elements. Thats again just shitty marketing

Immersive sims are the future for talented indie devs.

In other words: the genre is dead

But why would I try a game that looks utterly dull?

>it makes sense when you understand that genres are more about the lineage of a game than how it actually plays
There's no genre like this except crappy made up genres or flimsily defined subgenres like "survival horror".

Can you explain to me how RE7 was not an immersive sim? That appears to cover all the bases and that game did well.

I remember paying full price for MD and then it went on a 75% sale a month later.

can we stop calling games "immersive sims" because meme men on the internet call them that?

I guess we still have System Shock remake and 3 to look forward to

Prey flopped. Deusex flopped. Dishonored flopped. But re7 is success. It's because japanese are superior.

Prey and Dude Sex failed because Publisherers completely ignored them in favor of shinier games

Dishonored 2 failed because Harvey Smith couldn’t do a good sequel to save his life

indie devs dont have the resources to create a world like talos 1. so yeah if this game isnt seen as a success then itll just die out again

RE7 is fucking scripted

>re7
>immersion sim

>System Shock remake
I have bad news for you

Because all those games you listed are 12~ hours long. People aren't willing to drop $60 on something that provides so few hours of entertainment.

Nooooooo. Don't say it!

lol

is this bait

>we
YOU DENSE MOTHERFUCKER

grimdark dudebro shooter is out of fashion

that polish cyberpunk game also will flop, some boring 3rd person shooter of bioware too

nobody wants it anymore

>There's no genre like this except crappy made up genres or flimsily defined subgenres like "survival horror".
Roguelike, MOBA, JRPG, SRPG, CRPG, Grand Strategy, 4X, are all defined by the games that they are derived from and not their objectively defined mechanics. That's just how genres work, it's the same for music

>Companies make shit games
>People don't buy them because they're shit
>OH NO THEY'RE GOING EXTINCT, WHY DIDN'T YOU BUY THEM

Fuck this gay earth

It turned from a remake to an entirely new game to a hiatus to a cancellation. What a ride

Some things are scripted, other things not. Are you telling me there's nothing at all scripted in Prey?

Barring the JRPG and SRPG because Japan can be pretty retarded when it comes to defining genres too, the rest, while "defined by the games that they are derived from," still refer to certain mechanical and ruleset oriented categorization.

Immersives sim also refers to a certain ruleset, but that ruleset is the one defined by looking glass games, in the same way MOBAs are defined by DOTA, Roguelikes are defined by Rogue and grand strategy are defined by paradox games

So what does Cred Forums think of Looking Glass' next game?

I want to like it but it seems they are going the Ultima Underworld 2 route with the world design and I'm not to happy with that.
Also performance looks shite.
Rest seems fine.

>Looking Glass' next game?
under what name

>that polish cyberpunk game also will flop

You're clearly underestimating the eurojankfags
Any bigger, half-competent game from eastern europe will always be a success.

Rightfully so in a lot of cases.

How do you know that those games flopped?

Slavs are the gods of pc gaming

otherside entertainment

Paul Neurath, Tim Stellmach and Warren Spector are pretty much all involved. Art was done by a guy from irrational games (which is also an LG offspring). So yeah it's basically Looking Glass.
Doesn't mean anything though. Unfortunately. Game seems awfully janky at the moment.

I think games dropping in price heavily shortly after release is a bad sign

So can you explain how RE7 doesn't fit the bill?

>otherside entertainment
oh werent these the guys who said theyre working on system shock 3? and i dont know anything about underworld tbqh

Haven't played it but I don't think there are any simulationist elements, the gameplay is linear and there's not much choice in how you approach objectives

Looks like shit

They are
Spector is leading that team.
They've been looking for a Software Engineer the last few weeks. The position's description was pretty much chief cook and bottle washer at the same time, so I'm not sure about that project. Unless they have a core team set up and are just looking for additional help.

Then again we haven't seen anything from that project apart from a bit of artwork

How many points is enough for you? One?

It has no audio or text logs

Or two?

There are no multiple ways to approach any given objective

Or three?

It doesnt have a leveling up system, either via xp or items

>It has no audio or text logs
>It doesnt have a leveling up system, either via xp or items
those are both irrelevant

Except they are present in every single "immersive sim" game, for world-building and rpg purposes both of which are extremely important

>Prey Flopped
>Dishonored 2 flopped
>Deus Ex Mankind Divided flopped
Because all of those games were pure dogshit.

Meanwhile Kingdom Come just came out and is selling gangbusters. The market isn't dying, it's just plagued by terrible titles that don't do well because they don't appeal to anyone. Why play Prey when I can play SS? Why play Dishonored when I can play Thief? Why play MD when I can play DX?

If games aren't any improvement on their predecessors, why would you expect anyone to buy them?

>Except they are present in every single "immersive sim" game
not in thief
unless you consider buying items levelling up, in which case resident evil has that aswell

>I don't think there are any simulationist elements
You would have to define that. The environment is not as spread out as it is in Prey but it has similar aspects in terms of optional engagements throughout.

>It has no audio or text logs
Not true.

>There are no multiple ways to approach any given objective
Alright. It does have optional engagements with enemies though.

>It doesnt have a leveling up system, either via xp or items
That's part of the immersive sim definition?

>Why play Prey when I can play SS? Why play Dishonored when I can play Thief?
are you seriously arguing nobody wants to play new games because old ones still exist and are good
what is this autism

I skipped Prey because:
1. the art style looks like shit. It's literally Bioshit's art deco fantasy mixed with bog-standard scifi pulp. The monsters are just clouds of black mist, which would be cool if they had some kind of more advanced forms, which would come out later in the game or if you disrupted with certain skills or something, but apparently it's all that they are
2. The game ends in a fucking cliffhanger just as the story starts getting interesting. This is okay for weekly TV-shows, not for fucking games with multi-year intervals between parts.
3. They rebooted a franchise just to use the name. I still don't get this idea. Think it would've faired better with its own name.

Still, it's the one game that interests me of the bunch. Might get it near summer if I get my backlog cleared. Dishonored 2 had too much political shit surrounding it. I can't play it with the Outsider's VA replacement reminding me at every turn that someone got fired for being a retard on Twitter.

No, I'm saying why would someone play a new title that offers nothing but downgrades?

Games were supposed to get better, bigger, more impressive. Instead, they've gotten more lazy. A sequel should at least be a minor improvement in a field other than graphics.

>3. They rebooted a franchise just to use the name. I still don't get this idea. Think it would've faired better with its own name.
licensing
in movies it works out by shitting out cheap shit nobody will want to watch, in games it works out by giving the name to something completely different

>It has no audio or text logs
Audiologs were only an alternative to Ultima Underworld's conversation system which the devs weren't satisfied with. Ultima Underworld has neither of these unless by "text logs" you mean anything you can read, in which case that's ridiculously broad and encompasses a lot of games that you probably wouldn't consider immersive sims games e.g. Serious Same or Undertale, off the top of my head.
>It doesnt have a leveling up system, either via xp or items
Thief does not have this, and "leveling up via items" i.e. finding new items is ridiculously broad and encompasses most games.

>You would have to define that
I have to admit the simulation elements of immersive sims are pretty weak, but I didn't come up with the term, basically the environment is interactive and interacts with each other in interesting ways ie. in dishonored whale oil powers things and also functions as an explosive barrel, you can power up an electric fence with it then hack it with a hacking tool (which can also be used to hack robots) so it will shock guards instead of you
or rats that come if you kill too many people which will kill friend or foe alike who you can also possess and run around with or eat for mana
It gives you a wide variety of different tools that can be used in lots of ways to solve problems
Resident Evil is mostly just walk, shoot, item puzzle

Just started PREY today and its pretty damn good so far, it feels like SS1/2 with a less interesting world/story (not that it isnt interesting and well done so far though) but with the QOL and mechanics polished up to the point that it feels extremely good to play

Prey and Dishonored 2 is actually really good dude. Can't defend Mankind Divided though.

>No, I'm saying why would someone play a new title that offers nothing but downgrades?
What is downgrade in your opinion, more streamlined gameplay? Thats not a downgrade to some people. Besides your whole logic is fucking retarded, Doom 1 and 2 are still both the best singleplayer fps games ever made but that doesnt stop me from enjoying some modern fps games despite them being inferior gameplay wise

Also Prey is by far the most mechanically competent game in the "immersive sim" genre (which admittedly isnt saying much). Youre just full of shit, jaded, or both

Dude your logic is dumb. Kingdom Come is not AA.
>No, I'm saying why would someone play a new title that offers nothing but downgrades?
Because they will flop otherwise. You can't sell Thief to modern audience.

no shit retard, nobody with a brain pretends that bioshock is anything but a spiritual successor at most

dead space is more of a successor to system shock than bioshit was

>nobody with a brain pretends that bioshock is anything but a spiritual successor at most
Being a spiritual successor doesnt say anything about the quality of the game lol
Especially when youre a successor to such a good series

The entire time I sat through Prey, I was either waiting for it to get good story-wise, or comparing aspects of it to SS2, which did pretty much everything it did better.

Dishonored 2 I didn't even play, because the first one was such a festering shitpile of "playtested by retards" nonsense that I didn't even finish it.

It's a downgrade to anyone with a brain. There's a massive difference between making an element less "clunky", and streamlining all fun out of it.

Prey is a buggy mess with a poorly thought out space environment lacking even the most basic of O2 management, and an utterly underwhelming story which is a significant shame when that's the only element that would keep people playing. The enemy variety is poor and easily dealt with due to the console focus, and no level of mechanical competence could save that game from being a dumpster fire.

I really did want to like Prey. But it tried its absolute hardest to create a boring experience at every turn. Honestly, even Bioshock was better, simply because the story and setting was slightly interesting.

your life must be suffering

I don't want to fight ghosts. Horror is a niche.

>Being a spiritual successor doesnt say anything about the quality of the game lol
>Especially when youre a successor to such a good series

what the fuck retard? tries to say that the last "good shock game was System Shock 2" when fucking nobody who talks about "shock games" is talking about bioshit even by association. The last shock game WAS system shock 2 with the spiritual successors of bioshit and dead space

Your post implies being a spiritual successor means a game is bad
Control your autism and learn to english

>Has shit taste
>Posts a lizard
>Most likely a furfag
The irony

I couldn't get past the abysmal characterisation in the demo of Dishonored 2. I don't understand how they could fuck up the characters so badly from the original. I mean I do; SJWs live a false consciousness and can not create authentic human characters because they are so alienated from authentic human nature. But still, the could not have made more weasely unlikable boring characters out of Corvo and the girl in 2.

Did you somehow forget that Dishonored 1 exists?

>muh sjw
People like you only give them ammunition you know, youd accomplish much more if you just kept your retarded mouth shut

I loved Prey and Mankind Divided, Dishonored 2 was boring, it gradually becomes too easy and too hard at the same time.
Too bad we'll never get Prey 2 or new Deus Ex in near future. But maybe Underworld Ascendant ends up being good, or maybe we get new Hitman game.

>too easy and too hard at the same time.
what does that even mean?

Are you trying to imply that Prey's art style is good, plebbitor? Also, lizards are Cred Forums's spirit animal.

>plebbitor
>furry
you must burn

>Dishonored
Just make the charcters strong masculine archetypes the player can like again, and put a modicum of effort into the narrative premise so the player can engage. Whiney feminine Corvo + whiney cowardly girl + garbage rehashed premise = dead game.

You get a bunch of overpowered abilities, like in my opinion, unnecessary teleporting, and at the same time, there's too many enemies with broken HP and damage.

Prey was built on the ashes of a potentially far better game

Dishonored 2 was poorly optimized (ironically, since the 1st one ran even on toasters of the time), and franchise itself wasn't that good to begin with

Mankind Content Divided was pretty much HR with a few tweaks. City didn't feel any different.

>You will immediately cease and not continue to access the site if you are under the age of 18.

it's another game that lost points because they forced in a voiced protagonist.

Those games all have some flaws though. MD is obviously unfinished and Squeenix uped the kikery with it plus shitty SJW agenda, Prey has terrible combat/enemies/weapons/AI, Dishonored 2 ran like garbage

>Prey's art style
What is the art style exactly? It just looks like a generic space station populated by literal black blobs

>Cred Forums's spirit animal
That's a cat, newfriend.

>Story is the only thing that keeps people interested to keep playing it
Why?

You can't really complain about tough enemies when it's not required to kill even a single one. Considering that the entire game can be won without any conflict I find it fitting that the enemies be tough if you do decide to engage.

>What is the art style exactly?
generic 2000s video game tech labyrinth
honestly I think that's one of the reasons it did poorly, the public is sick to death of this shit after the first era of FPS games

Everything about this post makes me say what the fuck are you talking about

A dildo is your spirit animal, you faggot

Prey's level design/art direction is very similiar to most of the FPS games from the 2000s which took place in a giant nonsensical maze of technology like Doom 3 or Quake 2

How can a genre that doesn't exist die?

>Just make the charcters strong masculine archetypes the player can like again

>Garret, one of the defacto protags for these kind of games
>Strong masculine archetype

Diversity has never been the issue itself. It has always been a matter of it being used to punch up otherwise boring writing, which was absolutely a problem in Dishonored 1.

Problem with MGSV was a lack of interesting places to sneak into. I only remember Skullface's base, Code Talker's mansion, the oil plant, and two other places in afgan. Needed a level editor

I probably would've bought Prey had they not used "Prey" as a title, leeching off a dead franchise that I loved
Dishonored 2 was great and do sex was a 12 hour microtransaction shitfest
If anything the problem here is marketing, with dew sex getting overhyped and a shitty release, and the other 2 getting almost nothing at all
IIRC elon musk said he like mankind divided, if they somehow brought him in for marketing AND made a good game it'd sell like hotcakes
And making corvo the main star in the D2 trailers

I'm reading this sentence but failing to grasp what you're smoking

Those games were hardly flawless, wronged classics. Prey is the closest to that, but it still was obviously entangled in a spiral of shit, such as naming it after Prey, it has a generic name, watching its footage honestly doesn't help because the enemies all look like boring generic black goo things. There's nothing from those games screaming MUST BUY. Dishonored 1 was quite flawed and only the level design in it was good. MD is just HR 1.5 and it's clear from the get go they didn't give 2 fucks about truly improving HR with the constant cinematic bullshit they have inserted in Deus Ex.

And DXMD was the only good game from the bunch, Prey is a Bioshock for all the wrong reasons and Dishonored had only one memorable moment and that is Clockwork Mansion.

Immersive sims, as least on paper, are supposed to be action RPGs that rely heavily on interating systems.

It is a kind of funky term for it, and a ton of games are systemic nowadays, even zelda. But Immersive Sim i'd say is a good enough description of games that try to follow in the footsteps of looking glass and the like.

t. Born after 2000

What...?

how can I be any clearer? The big metallic space station / complex is an extremely overused setting for an FPS game

are you fucking illiterate?

>nobody with a brain pretends that bioshock is anything but a spiritual successor at most

is an answer to you being retarded enough to imply that bioshit is a "shock" game, hence why I even told you that dead space is
>more of a successor to system shock than bioshit was

learn to english and then kill yourself

>consensus seems to be that it was very, very easy.

Of all the things you can criticize D2 for, this is one of the most ridiculous. On hardest difficulty it is much harder than the equivalent difficulty on older games in the genre like SS2 or Thief.

There might be some excellent builds and power combos, but nothing that makes the game easy.

>Dishonored 2 had shitty writing and awful atmosphere compared to the original
>Deus Ex Mankind Divided had PRE-ORDER DLC TIERS and a fucking Praxis in-game cash shop and storywise is half a game

Prey was a game that stole the name of another game so it would sell of the other game's reputation. No surprise that it flopped.
Dishonored sucked, no surprised that the sequel flopped.
Deus Ex, from what I've heard, has been getting worse with each new game.

You were born after 2000? Sucks for you.
To me, it's simply pretentious manner of describing these games. None of them offer simulation in any way. As for the immersion they're praised for, nothing about that is unique to these style of games either. It's almost as if people are trying to elevate the perceived quality of the linear, story driven (typically shooters) games that they're playing.

>what the fuck are you talking about
Yes user, look at this. This is not generic at all. This looks so interesting. There are so many little details here, the design is so intricate and unique. I could keep staring at this piece of art for hours

>Prey was a game that stole the name of another game so it would sell of the other game's reputation. No surprise that it flopped.
my god some of you niggers dont understand anything about anything

both Dishonoreds are extremely easy games no matter the difficulty setting. You have to artifically restrict yourself to make it even slightly difficult

>I-I SWEAR THESE GAMES FLOPPED

Sources.

How old are you people? Are you really not familiar with a generic futuristic mazes in FPS? I mean look at this screenshot here. What is this location? Looks like a generic piece of nothing.

>. None of them offer simulation in any way.

how stupid are you exactly? the simulation is being thrown into a sandbox with X goals and multiple ways to achieve that goal, the simulation being you completing these tasks intuitively and the game being built on the very core of environmental interaction, usually in the archetypes of mobility, hacking/repair systems, straight up combat and in more RPG heavy systems, dialogue

the genre name was invented by the people who made the games
they're immersive because unlike RPGs they're first-person, real time and don't rely on visible statistics and dice rolls for their game rules
they're simulations because they simulate the environment you're playing in instead of designing a normal video game level with pre-defined solutions

Did you even see that shit in motion? Did you hear it? Did you actually play the game you're shitposting about?

This, it looks so fucking creatively bankrupt.

Hence what the user earlier said about the name being more about lineage than an accurate description for all of the games. In 1992, calling Ultima Underworld a simulator was less ridiculous than it is today. That shit was fancy.

In some ways Prey 2017 made me appreciate Bioshock more. While it does have better design, things such as an inventory are nice I ended up feeling like all enemy encounters were extremely bland, being able to see enemies before they spotted you made them way less threatening, I just found the different splicers and big daddies way more satisfying to fight against than goo headcrab, goo humanoid, goo huge humanoid and goo flying thing. I mean for fucks sake, the nightmare which is supposed to be this huge threat is just a phantom on steroids, this is fucking boring design.

It's called generic and inconsistent mess.

I saw a video where a guy finished a level by just holding down the sprint button and running for the objective. There was a vast area full of enemies, which would have been somewhat difficult to sneak/fight through, and he just ran through it. The enemies didn't react fast enough to do anything.

Bad design such as this is why I never got interested in it.

Playing through mankind divided now, surprised at how good it is, will be sad if it never continues. I love that world.

Dude what fucking glue are you smoking

1. Fps games with a nonsensical maze-like level design are from early to late 90s, they disappeared almost completely after developers started incorporating actual stories into their shooters. Which happened before the 2000s
2. Prey is not a maze, the entire map is a believable space station
3. Its not generic either, you literally cant find a space station in video games that looks anything like it

Even with all it's flaws, Mankind Divided was better than critics implied. Prague is better than any level in HR.

>tfw your favorite genre dies because the marketing department fucks up

God Prey was good. The level design was good. The enemies turning into literally any object room was good. Even the music was good. RIP

youtube.com/watch?v=fiIfVnPg4pA
youtube.com/watch?v=BCVpvemSQHk

thats why some people call it system shock 3 instead of bioshock 3. because thats what system shock is

Playing through mankind divided now, surprised at how good it is, will be sad if it never continues. I love that world. Its really detailed.

Should I buy Prey and Dishonored 1&2?

Because the gameplay was trite at best? I don't mind a game being shit to play. DX is a janky mess of sneaking behind people and prodding them in the back of the knees, but the story it presents is interesting enough for you to get over the minor niggles, and the sheer scope of choice you have when it comes to how to approach encounters is pretty entertaining.

Prey doesn't have the story to back it up. Why would I go off and do side-missions if the reward is going to be some more ammo or mods I don't even need, and another poorly written scene with a new character I hate? As for dealing with encounters, there is no choice. Either you mod the fuck out of yourself and just kill everything with the shotgun, or you don't mod yourself as much and you still kill everything with the shotgun. There's no depth, and nowhere is that more apparent than in the ABYSMAL weapon variety.

no FPS games continued to have boring metal corridors well into the 2000s even with stories

But I don't remember being this bored by a Shock game's combat like I did in Prey, I wasn't praising it at all. It just made me notice Bioshock, which I considered to be a casualized copy of SS2, could have turned out much worse. Prey gets some things better, but when the game sucks it just sucks big time.

Prey if you enjoyed System Shock (semi-horror FPS gameplay)
Dishonored 1 & 2 if you enjoy time stop shenanigans and ripping people apart.

Bioshock and Prey are first person shooters. They're linear shooters with some puzzles and maybe some additional elements like RPG stats, but oh we need a way to get people to like them. We also can't be compared to Call of Duty, that would be bad! So, let's call them Immersive sims! Even though there's no simulation whatsoever, and the immersion is no fucking different than any other game out there. The pretentiousness is pathetic.

Haven't played prey but Bioshock isn't an immersive sim, it's a shooter with some puzzles
Dishonored is an immersive sim. I already pointed out where the 'immersive' part came from. It's immersive in comparsion to RPGs

People have been using immersive sim since before Call of Duty existed but ok.

shock combat is fucking awful and so is the enemy variety. its every other element in that game that makes it good

It's retrofuturism, actually. Bulky machines and art deco.

>We also can't be compared to Call of Duty, that would be bad!
Yes, it would. There are no similarities
>Prey
>Linear
Try to play things you shitpost about

Its blatantly obvious that youre either retarded or have not played Prey, the gloo gun alone disproves your retardation. The stats are straight up versions of the skill trees in SS2 and the game is filled with references (the fucking item to recharge psionic power is even named the exact same way)

Prey failed because Bethesda is full of retards who think review embargos are a good thing.
Dishonored 2 had FPS problems for the first month.
DE:MD was an unfinished sequel.

Ok thanks. Hopefully I'll be able to get them for cheap soon.

>The enemies turning into literally any object room was good.
No it wasn't. I beat the game on the hardest available difficulty for a first playthrough, and only ONCE did I get one-shot by a mimic I didn't notice.

The idea was alright. The execution, with the embarrassing audio cues, and super slow enemies so console players would have a chance to spin around in time, was some of the worst I've ever seen.

Is the level design good? Eh, it's an 8/10. But there's no reason to ever explore it. What are you going to do, pick up another audio log that bores you to death?

You're right, and that's why it's so sad that Prey manages to do even worse at both of those elements. You'd think a game that has another decade of design experience behind it would be able to understand that you need more than 5 weapons, or more than 5 enemy types.

>But there's no reason to ever explore it.
Thank goodness I don't suffer from some kind of retard disease.

>Eh, it's an 8/10.
>Eh
>8/10
what is this, ign?

Mankind Divided is just so damn forgettable, the cover-based system has overstayed its welcome, as have the cinematic takedowns. The takedown system in the HR series is arguably the worst in games, even ubishit doesn't make you watch repetitive cutscenes over and over and over. But hey now you can do it from cover! Fuck you leafniggers, this shit sucks and has less player agency than the fucking game that had an extremely simplistic melee system.

Also so many doors in MD have a computer lock that you hack into. They don't understand what Deus Ex was about, the hacking bar in DX was tuned in with the patrol times, so an expert hacker in Deus Ex could quickly sneak from the front door of Liberty Island, an untrained one would take so long he would be spotted by the robot. So the point was not to play a dumb minigame, but your prowess at disabling computer system quick enough to do it unnoticed. The point of Deus Ex was not to play a shitty hacking minigame 5000 times. They don't fully comprehend what Deus Ex was about.

A silicon casting isn't an animal, you fuckwit.

>It's retrofuturism
How is it retro? It has art deco furniture awkwardly shoved into it, but other than that there's no retro aesthetic at all. It's just bland

Nope, System Shock 2 had way more enemies than 3 variants of goo, Bioshock had much better combat than this too, and more weapons. I heard some people say b-but it's an immersive sim, hey fuck you shooting and combat is a big part of the game, but it sucks.

This post is fucking baffling

Did you watch a lets play instead of playing it? Or are you just retardo?

also your pic reminds me, the zero gravity sections of Prey were just bland and boring

>Immersive Sim

Fuck off Huber. That's not a real genre, you just made that shit up.

no
but they're really working their asses off to deliver a game they think is fun unlike western devs that work 2 hours a day

Meh. I personally didn't like it as a representation of a near-future space station on account of all the retrofuturism. Tastes differ, I suppose.

You complaint about hacking is retared. You do get better and faster at the minigame with bot ingame and real life skills, but you need both. It's not just a real life minigame but it's not just a skill check either. Don't see how that's bad.

Threads over everybody you can go home

Why do people jack off so much to the Liero dirtball-gun in this game?

Prey would have sold better with a different title
Dishonored launched wit severe problems
Deus ex was not as good as its predecessor.

I'm being serious. I even tried to explore, but after finding the 5th corpse on a level with the mapping system I just gave up from boredom.

It's good, but when the game gives you no reason to explore other than amassing resources you're already given bucketfuls of, it makes you wonder where they lost the plot. I imagine there is a dev build from before they cut out the O2 meter, and all the status effects enemies could inflict on you, where it was a decent enough 70% finished game. But somehow they just forgot to put the other 30% of content into it, like the other half a dozen weapons the game blatantly should have had.

I played it, although thinking about it I actually didn't finish it. I got to the point where your brother gets wrecked by the massive monster breaking into the arboretum, wasted 30 minutes reloading a save to try and get the unconscious pilot into the fucking medbay without him dying from tapping his head on a doorway, and then I just quit and never felt like opening it again.

name one other example of a gun in a game even remotely similar to this that lets you build platforms for traversal

The minigame is a pointless timesink that just gets boring. It's an addition that retards who don't understand Deus Ex appreciate, hey it has a minigame and the original didn't when it comes to hacking, so it's better! No. Sometimes, less is more. Doubly so for the awful cinematic takedown system that manages to feel worse than the barebones melee of the first game. That's the issue of HR/MD - it's all style no substance.

Bioshock Infinite killed them. It's like Beethoven in A Clockwork Orange. I tried playing Prey, but everything I did just gave me PTSD flash backs to that one shitty Ken Levine game. I'm too afraid to replay System Shock since Bioshock Infinite may have ruined that too.

THE MARKET IS DYING CLOUD

Kingdom Come Deliverance feels like an immersive sim.

if bethesda made either of those games they would sell more (and be shittier). its all marketing

Nah, Prey is just shit. I agree with you on the way its floaty movement is highly reminiscent of BI, though.

The actual Shock games still hold up perfectly fine.

don't you mean Nerf foam fighter?

immersive sim is not a genre.

>Game has physics setting
>There are no physics anywhere to be found

Exploring allows you to take different paths to get a better position to take on enemies or go through areas expending less resources or accessing them earlier than what you could normally get to like using the gloo gun to access the second floor at the Neuromod division to instead of fixing the gravity elevators. It's like a metroidvania but rewards more on exploration and observation than dexterity.

I don't know what it is with these games that all have the exact same disgusting gamefeel and clunky """"art"""""style.

Open world games cannot be immersive sim. It is literally impossible to cram a world that big full of detail with current technology

I got an immersive sim vibe from RE7 when I played. I enjoyed it more than all the games in the OP bar D2 which I skipped.

I just said Liero dirtball gun. I think it is more along the lines of "it didn't exist for a reason". That reason is: Literally what is interesting about it?

>Prey is just shit
>The actual Shock games still hold up perfectly fine
considering that prey is mechanically far more robust than either shock games (or any other immersive sim for that matter) your post is not only objectively false but also fucking retarded

Mankind Divided would be a worthy sequel if the DLC wasn't separate from the main game, and it was more challenging.

Exploration rewards you for taking alternate paths. Just because the game is boring to you doesn't make the game bad.

>tfw playing MD and seeing where they blatantly cut the game in half
>tfw so much backlash that the next game won't be coming
>tfw you will never see Jensen realize that he's actually a clone of the real one that died at the end of HR and made by Bob Page

SS1 doesn't hold up, but SS2 absolutely does.

>create platforms to climb onto unreachable places or to create new ways to areas accessible through other routes
>freeze enemies
>create walls out of it

its the biggest invention in immersive sims since the things SS2 established

>to get a better position to take on enemies or go through areas expending less resources or accessing them earlier than what you could normally get to
In a good game, sure.

In Prey, the positional advantages are moot because the only gun worth using is the shotgun, which is close-range, and the zappy gun on mechs, which is also close range. Expending less resources doesn't matter when you're showered in them regardless, and accessing areas earlier has no real benefit.

If there was an area that was flooded or something, and you had to go and do a long fetch quest to un-flood it, or you could go around the ship on the outside unprompted to skip the whole place, that would be one thing. But there isn't, there's no reward for exploration other than a couple of extra neuromods here and there that don't matter when you can build a million of them anyway.

>Bethesda games aren't Inmersive Sims
They are literal derivations from Ultima Underworld, and still there are moronic faggots like you that deny it because they are bad games, and of course your sacred genre can't have those.
If Skyrim isn't an inmersive sim, neither is Deus Ex, you retard.

he's right, and SS1/SS2 are way more interesting than Prey. Its climbing isn't really used because often the level design is piss poor. How about that psychosomething area, that shit is all corridors, same for the neuromod portion, there's something you climb to get to level 2, then the climbable things over the pool but often the level design doesn't enable the climbing as much as I would expect

It is mildly interesting. The fact that most videos seem to treat it as the main selling point of the game and the fact that people hold it as 'innovative' online just reflects poorly on the game in general. If the Liero dirtball-gun is the best the game have to offer, I think I'll continue to not play it.

>Mankind Divided would be a worthy sequel if the DLC wasn't separate from the main game, and it was more challenging.
And by this i don't mean that it should have been free, i mean that literally the DLC play like stand alone expansions.

>you retard.
projecting isnt very nice

>People are now trying to say shitty Western RPGs like Skyrim are "immersive sims"
Yep, immersive sim is nothing but a buzzword to make these games seem better, confirmed. What a fucking joke.

Prey is promising, though. It just seriously lacked in the horror aspect so it could even hold a candle to SS2. The only remotely creepy thing that happens is when nightmare enters the map.

Honestly, if they had utilised it better, I could see it being innovative. You can tell they really wanted to make it fun, there's little bits where you have to put out fires with it and stuff.

I think it was a victim of the dreaded "streamlining". Playtesters probably grew frustrated at areas with "impassable" gaps, and the general jankiness of trying to use the gun to move around levels probably didn't help much.

and then it is just an enlarged phantom lol

immersive sims are dervived from UU and so is Skyrim doesn't make them the same thing

the buzzword was invented by the people who made the games you ignorant fool

(And that's a good thing)

>Nightmare spawns
>Oh fuck what is going
>WTF IS THAT
>Run through a door
>Lock it and go afk for 5 minutes

Or

>Nightmare spawns
>Maxed out shotgun, security and that slowdown time with dmg buff
>BTFO the nightmare in a few hits
>ez

Nightmare could of been done better desu.

>The only remotely creepy thing that happens is when nightmare enters the map.
It was so fucking cool, for 5 seconds. Then you watch it struggle to get through a doorway while you pump it full of shotgun shells, and then it dies without even touching you.

They should have at least made it part of an elaborate set piece level that was just a glorified corridor run against an invincible enemy. What the fuck happened to shit like RE3's Nemesis? Now there was a fucker who spooked your fucking guts out.

>Trailer makes out nightmare as some terrible boss that can squeeze through tiny spaces
>First nightmare that spawns can be cheesed by just going into the toilet and shooting it with the pistol

>only open world SP sells
I don't know, Doom 2016 sold well from what I remember. RE7 was not open world and it got praised, well received and sold its fair share. I think people are basing this shit off uninteresting games like these and Wolfenstein II