Soulsfags will defend this

>See a dragon land right in front of you earlier in the level
>Bridge has scorch marks all over it
>Dragon isn't even likely to kill you the first time around unless you're low on health or you block/jump and eat multiple ticks of fire damage
You'd have to not only be lacking in object permanence and pattern recognition but also in basic motor skills to die to this on full health.

By thus point in the game, any idiot should really know not to run forward at any point without being cautious and looking around.

it does, it teaches you to be attentive and proceed with caution, slowly.

>Bridge has scorch marks all over it
I don't understand how anyone would initially take that as a warning sign for a dragon. You could have interpreted it as firebomb residue or merely random textures of no importance.

Probably cause of the massive dragon you saw earlier.
Even if you didn't think "dragon" scorch marks all over the floor should raise some flags for anyone

I think you can easily hear the dragon flying, you must be a mutt though so i don't blame you for being a brainlet

You could interpret it as an indicator of firebombers, which is also what the game actually does at the top of Sen's Fortress.
Either way, it's a warning that something is going to set you on fire.

That part is bullshit. I'm not denying that.

But I believe that a big part of Dark Souls is that it's community-driven. I don't think that the best DS experience is playing it completely blind. I think it's a lot better when you play it having someone sit next to you who already played it. For me, Dark Souls has always been a game where a big part of the fun comes from sharing info with friends or people on the internet to get through the hostile world.

I don't think the game was actually developed with this exact concept in mind. But the fact that Dark Souls somehow managed to naturally evolve to this state where there is a huge following and this community knowledge about things like the bridge, the bonfire in Sen's Fortress, where you have to go after defeating the Gargoyles and other obscure shit helped tremendously and elevated the game above what the developers intended.

Exploration is nice and very rewarding, but there is a lot of extremely useful knowledge that a blind player just won't figure out without the collective effort of the community by truly dedicated players.

It was really lucky for Dark Souls that it became as popular as it got, mostly owed to solid combat and amazing world design, so that you play the fun stuff on your own and the bullshit stuff through the community. Stuff like the skeletons by Firelink Shrine and the dragon on the bridge are such well known bullshit points that unless you NEVER heard of Dark Souls before and played it completely blind, you are likely to have seen or heard about them already, being discussed somewhere on the internet. Like this thread for example, someone who hasn't played Dark Souls scrolls past this thread, sees the OP, and possibly remembers it when he eventually gets into it.

Again, this was definitely never intended to have this much impact, but the game benefits greatly from it in my opinion.

Not that much though. You might try again with more knowledge after dying but the game generally does a pretty decent job at teaching you if you're paying attention.
Even in a place like Sens fortress this is true.

It's still intensely questionable since the hollows at the end of the bridge fairly obviously can't throw firebombs that far. You're walking into a wide open area with the suspicion that you might get ambushed and if you have any sense then you might still be remembering the dragon that landed right in front of you.
At the very least you heal up to full health before taking that risk and survive going through the flames because they just knock you down, at which point you make a mad rush for the alcoves that will protect your dumb ass from further fire.
It's also distinct enough that you couldn't interpret it as just another texture I think.

In Sens it's a giant that periodically throws huge explosive balls of fire. This isn't like the hollows you've become acquainted with up to this point.

>Full health
>Good fire resist shield
Yes, I absolutely will defend this since you will never die in one hit and will take minimal damage if you bother blocking

>But I believe that a big part of Dark Souls is that it's community-driven. I don't think that the best DS experience is playing it completely blind. I think it's a lot better when you play it having someone sit next to you who already played it. I think it's a lot better when you play it having someone sit next to you who already played it.
that's gay

you get fucked harder if you try to block it, since the fire hits you until you run out of stamina and then you get shit on with instability frames

also there's a developer message there if you used seek guidance like the new player you are instead of being a cocky shit

>not knowing every mechanic of the game after the first 10 minute of play
I bet you didn't even equip a Ring of Sacrifice on your first encounter with Seath the Scaleless u casul

There's a developer message in his room too.
>thinking you're hot shit that doesn't need guidance when you don't know anything about the game by your own admittance

If this is your first time playing dark souls there is a 0% chance you made it to this dragon in 10 minutes.

You really think this vague shit would entice a new player into equipping a ring of sacrifice in order to not lose your souls?
Yea, no shit. I thought the sarcasm was obvious.

>dumb fucks can't into hyperbole
I was making a point that new players wouldn't know half of the shit that is claimed in this thread. Next time I'll have to make it blatantly obvious
I'll revise my last post in order to make the sarcasm more obvious;

>not knowing every mechanic of the game a year before release
I bet u lvld n-sted of a SL 0, u casul

>try resignation
i guess i have to die to proceed
but i don't want to lose my souls
do i have an item that would let me keep my souls even if i die?

I don't even understand why people care so much about dying a few times to shit like this. Call me a shitter but i probably died at least 200 times during my first (and blind) playthrough, so dying to bullshit traps just gave me a giggle if anything

It's the staple of Cred Forums discussion. It's just complaining for the sake of complaining, generally they are just venting real life frustration into videogames or image boards and blowing nuances out of proportion to see that particular issue fixed in compensation of being unable to do anything about the real issues they can't deal with.
There's also just whiny cunts that are unable to have fun unless things go their way 100% of the time by "skeelz" and don't consider forethought, exploration or preparation as any of that. But those tend to be in the minority, really.

The mental gymnastics of souls babies everyone

I've only played Demon Souls, let me guess a dragon that ends up being a shitty boss fight flies around and breathes fire at you.

Common sense?

The reason everyone sees every trap in Dark Souls differently, is for the fact that every trap in some way exploits a weakness, and is overcome by a strength.
In other words, there are things that you're good at, that another player isn't. And then there are things the other player is good at, that you're not. And so when you approach a trap that plays into your strengths, you easily overcome. While the other player has his weakness exploited and dies. Vice-versa. When you die at something, it's because the trap exploited your weakness, and the other player gets through no problem, since it's his strength.

A series of variable traps causes the illusion of trial and error. Because you will inevitably have your weakness exploited, and die, before you learn how to overcome.
This is a sign of good game design, because it means that the game doesn't coddle its players by giving them easy ways out of danger, or convenient recover methods. Too many games are too lenient with players. But not Dark Souls.

Fact is: You were either strong enough to overcome the trap. Or too weak to do anything about it. It's not cheap. You just didn't know you sucked before it was too late.

PSA: Sprinting makes you take more damage from all sources.

You can't survive the first blast while sprinting with less than 14 vitality and some minor resist from armor

You don't have to fight it. It just likes burning the bridge, like the dragon in 1-1.

Its nothing but pure bullshit. DaS1 has shit like that all over the place, you can't tell if environment harzards are just a part of the architecture or a actual danger.

Have you considered maybe you are just retarded? Without even having played Demon Souls beforehand seeing a giant open area full of scorching marks and dead bodies when there's dragons flying over the place was enough blatant information to call it common sense that shit is going to go down the moment you step on it.
Sometimes you being slow and a raging cunt is mostly your fault, user. There's plenty of things that you could complain about that are far more sensible. Like the overly complicated means of finishing Solaire's quest successfully, or getting cucked by Seth no matter what you do the first time around.

But you decide to complain about the most basic, common sense shit any videogame would throw at you? This is not the passtime for you.

run in, turn back the moment you hear wings flapping, survive. What's so hard?

I unironically prefer Dark Souls 2 over 1.

Jesus you have autism brainlet.

Nigger what

So we both agree that you are garbage at videogames in general, then. Both in either having forethought or in knowing how to have fun and deal with the fact that you suck.
Switch to books. They will be more welcoming for you.

So it's a shitty repetitive game that you'd rather get help for because otherwise it'd waste heaps of time learning the right thing to do at each point?

You just love bad game design and can't even defend it lol. Please reply again so I can laugh further.

If you got time to purposely act like a sperging out autist in Cred Forums, you will always have time for time consuming games, so you should be fine with that.

>bridge covered in scorch marks
>giant red drake landed 10 feet in front of you and flew to bridge in the section right before
It's only your failure of observation.

If it makes you have fun with what is clearly a very bored evening/day you got going, sure. What is your favourite boss so far?

>I don't think the game was actually developed with this exact concept in mind
It was though. That's the reason why the messages even exist in the first place. Allowing other players to actually tell you what to do goes against conventional game design but FromSoft built a game centered around community. The games strike an incredible balance of making you feel very alone and worthless (especially in the beginning) but you always know that someone is there going through the same things as you. It's also why bloodstains and the phantoms of other players randomly popping up exist. Genius concepts.

This sounds like something someone who literally fails at everything else and has to cling on to arbitrary moments in video games as any kind of references to success to feel good about.

>l-le just la git god my game is perfect xD

I bet you're not even as "hardcore" as you think faggot.

>knew that I was probably going to get fucked up
>had nowhere else to go
>tried to bait whatever was coming by running back and forth
>nothing happened
>ran toward the alcove and hoped for the best
>got hit by the fire
I honestly never figured how the hell to get through this segment without getting burnt, but it's almost never killed me so I don't really care.

Maybe the point of the bridge isn't to teach you how to avoid dragons, maybe it's to teach you about the risk:reward of pressing on into unknown territory when you have a huge stack of souls. Players who backtrack to the bonfire after Taurus are rewarded with a few extra stats, but they have to re-clear the level to advance, and that's tedious. Players who press on know they are taking a risk, and when they die unfairly it will stick with them for the rest of the game. Any time they have a big stack of souls they'll remember the dragon bridge and the paranoia will start to creep in.

One unfair dick move that sets the player back 10 minutes seems bad in isolation but when you consider the impact it has on the player's mindset for the entire rest of the game, I think it's worthwhile. Placing the dragon bridge immediately after the first real boss is genius level design, and if it were anywhere else in the game it'd just be a cheap one-off kill with no impact. Obviously I'm only talking about first-time playthroughs, for a veteran player it's trivial to avoid the fire, or just skip the whole level, or sequence break so the dragon never spawns.

good post

I don't really get it either. Getting killed by traps is the most fun way to die for me in Dark Souls.

>mad about traps in DaS
>meanwhile people swallow jump-scares in horror games like it's cum

brainlets

Where do you find a resist fire shield so early in the game?

>redditors
>people

what are you, a casul?

What benefit do you seriously gather in outright making up things and twisting statements just to continue an entirely pointless argument? I mean it sincerely, do you actually feel better about whatever boredom or anger is making you do it, or is it something you simply can't control because there are no outlets available for you in your surroundings?

Heater shield is one of the better ones at 70%, but even something shitty is enough to survive the bridge.
But arguing that you should block is stupid because there's no way of knowing which direction the fire will come from.

>projecting so hard
knew it lol stay mad loser

>you can ear a huge beast
>bridge is full of corpses
Gee i wonder...

the graphics look so bad there I didn't even recognize where it was until I read other posts. Thank god for dsfix

>nice animation with unsatisfying meme ending
Has to be that Spanish faggot.

>run on the bridge
>get my ass burned by the dragon
>get up and run to the stairs
WOOOOOOW that was fucking hard

>literally just sprint
>complaining about this

state of Cred Forums

Sorry I go the other way across parish because I ring the bell first then go to solaire so this isn't a problem for me
>hurr darksouls is linear the orange fog gates!
Fighting the Taurus demon is for chumps. Now I can sit in burg way over powered and feed off twinks.

pruld?

>I don't understand how anyone would initially take that as a warning sign for a dragon.
Maybe because when you proceed into the Undead Burg, the fucking thing slams down in front of you and basically says "Sup? I'll be seeing you later." Once you get to the bridge all you have to do is look at the scorch marks and go "Oh yeah, that thing is probably flying around somewhere. I should be careful."

Yeah, that's him.

There's a big chance of dying on the bridge if you just run straight into the fire. I mean for a new player ofc.

Won't try that again, will you nigga?
RIGHT!?

as far as i know it was posted in /ic/ a couple of weeks ago, might be him though

It's undefendable but eh. It's not like it kills you.

They already disproved this. Even if you walked very slowly and immediately ran backwards as soon as you heard a noise, which literally no one will do on their first play through, you will still get caught up. the only way to do this safely is to run back and forth baiting out the dragon, obviously only once you know of it after dying

Yeah, absolutely, but I think the way it turned out with huge ass channels on YT completely dissecting the game, the difficulty reputation and the wikis surpassed the dev's vision of this concept. It was a success far larger than they anticipated, which worked out amazingly for the game.

The whole point of the lore and game is that death doesn't matter, as long as you learn from it, if you don't then you're fucked, and that's a recurrent theme,
>learn the dragon comes and so will other things if you rush things ignoring amiental clues
>learn to look for presure plates
>learn to identify mimics
>learn thjat blood in the rising platform means people die tere and it could happen to you
>learn what each boss telegraph means
is a game that teaches you by killing you, and rewards your learning by not removing your advance. I tought we've gone through this already
.

what's the problem?

>have to know that you can't talk to Goombas and have to jump on/over them
>there's no questmarker telling you to go right in the beginning
>no NPCs or map telling you where the flag is

Mariofags will defend this

Everyone in this thread is so fixated on the fact that there are scorch marks and that the drake could be seen prior. No, the average person didn't put together that the drake you saw earlier would be guarding that bridge, you wouldve had to have played DeS to guess that, and anyone who says they used their keen detective instincts to predict what was about to happen is full of shit and probably vapes.
The real reason this part isn't that hard is because you can just watch the pattern of the fire and get around it. ALSO you can make the drake get frustrated and come to you. If you want to measure dicks with someone on Cred Forums about this part then at least argue it well.

>There's a big chance of dying on the bridge if you just run straight into the fire.
There is a 10% chance which is only possible if you have really low health already. But unless you like actually going around with low health the first attack will NEVER kill you.

Absolutely everyone that has ever played a videogame in their lives saw that coming, and those that didn't laughed it off and gave cero shits, treating it like a jump scare trap.
Only autists needing everything handed to them with blinding pointers see more than the obviety of the circumstance or the fun of getting caught off guard. This is a fact.

Don't you take elemental damage constantly while blocking and then when your stamina runs out you take the full brunt on top of that?

Or am I thinking of the sequel, that sounds like the sequel but DaS had it's fair share of flaws as well.

>There is a 10% chance
Someones using the Cred Forums method of "taking numbers directly from my colon".

I don't know about you, but I had my health go from 100% to 0 because the fire would hit me twice

>i can't put one and one together so nobody can

Nobody's bragging, user. We are saying it's so blatant even a moron should be able to tell it from a mile apart. We are sorry you are in fact below the average normie.

This I knew more or less what was coming the first time and still got hit

>Be totally oblivious
>Get hit by fire breath
>Survive
>Avoid the next fire breath attack and escape
Wow so hard

>game's resolution is so low that you can't even see texture detail
>"scorch marks" look just as much like indistinct smudges as every other texture

>he actually got hit by the fucking drake
It gives you PLENTY of time to get down the stairs, you have to be literally retarded to get hit, get fucking good.

Git (a) gud (PC)

...

Imagine being so mad about dying in a video game that you make a post about one obstacle in the game 7 years after the game came out.

soybois
B T F O
T
F
O

solaire never spawns if you ring the bell before killing taurus demon you lying sack of shit

>It gives you PLENTY of time to get down the stairs, you have to be literally retarded to get hit, get fucking good.
You literally have to sprint before he appears, directly to the stairs that you still don't know exist, and you get almost hit on the head when you go down

First of all, I hate Dark Souls, but I don't understand what is wrong with this. Yes, it is trial and error, but so what? From where comes the idea that the game must be beatable on your first attempt if you are skilled enough at video games overall? There is nothing wrong with parts where you are intended to die a few times until you learn the gimmick.

Man, you are you tryhard idiots always use this game to spam made up bullshit to try look COOL.

Buddy I think dark souls is a great game but it's definitely trail and error. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but that was one of the main design goals.

why* you tryhard idiots always use this game to spam made up bullshit to try look to COOL.

almost there, try again buddy

The drake is bullshit not because you can't guess that there's gonna be a dragon on the bridge, but because you have no clue when it's going to come (and by the time you hear it your ass is getting burnt unless you were already sprinting for the stairs) and where the attack is going to come from. And to top it off, if you're thinking quick, realize where the dragon is coming from, and decide that it'd be clever to use your shield to block the damage (since you likely don't have the time to outrun it), the game rewards you by killing you, since it's near 100% likely that you're going to take a bunch of damage through the shield before getting your guard broken and eating shit. I can mostly forgive it since it's pretty unlikely to kill you aside from that (it seems like I get hit by the fire every other time I try the run), while being a fairly minimal loss if it does.

It's a bit strange, since you have places like sen's fortress that are great about showing you the traps and telegraphing them when they come up. The first arrow trap is in a simple, wide open space where enemies are likely to trigger it and show you what it does, then they build on it later. The swinging axes start out fairly easy before they start restricting your walking area and throwing more enemies/axes at you. The rolling boulders are introduced by clobbering an enemy so you can see what you're up against before you have to deal with them. I can agree that the first death to the mimic is bullshit (but basically required for the intended effect they have), but it's not because I didn't think that there wasn't anything fishy about the chest, it's because I didn't expect the chest itself to fucking eat me.

its a cheap, cinematic death but its immediately after a boss/checkpoint

It's especially dumb because dying in Dark Souls doesn't fucking mean anything. They could at least bitch about arcade games actually designed to eat quarters, but they choose to get upset about dying in a game with one of the most lenient punishments for dying in the past ten years.

First mimic is pretty easy to spot, it's the weirdest placement of a chest in the game.
As for the bridge, is there a way to avoid damage if you don't react until you see/hear the dragon? I've never seen it done.
If it's impossible to avoid, it gets dangerously close to becoming bullshit automatically.

...

It's less community and more encountering people as you go.
Probably not quite using a wiki on your first time and definitely not having someone sitting next to you telling you what to do.

>I died in this game where the sole premise is to die! Shit game, refund!

Maybe after you people stop ruining the fanbase with nonsensical shitposting. It's because of you that this fanbase is considered one of the most cancerous of this board, according to you every single thing related to this series is first of all a boasting competition about completely made up bullshit.
>cuphead.
Yeah, that's another fanbase you people ruined, thanks for reminding me that.

I won't, it's god awful design.
They left burns on the bridge as a small warning, but a small warning isn't going to tell you to immediately bolt back inside before you get one-shotted.

you are retarded

Git gud.

HE SAID: PSA: SPRINTING MAKES YOU TAKE MORE DAMAGE FROM ALL SOURCES.
YOU CAN'T SURVIVE THE FIRST BLAST WHILE SPRINTINT WITH LESS THAN 14 VITALITY AND SOME MINOR RESIST FROM ARMOR

Git gud.

butthurt on a mongolian cultural exchange bulletin board
anyways, would you like to provide a source

nigga i was just poking fun at some fucko failing to correct his grammar twice.
You are right but also an awful idiot who thinks fanbases matter to anyone other than autistic manchilds who try to represent a product as if it was a religion or a political group.

If a game becomes popular enough within a certain demographic seeing dumb shit be made about it is unavoidable

Pick them up again...

I only died once on my first playthrough of Dark Souls, and I was playing with one hand. Nothing personnel *teleports behind you and punches you until you fall down and cry*

>anyone who played Demon's Souls would know what an open bridge with burn marks sfter seeing a dragon would mean
>dragon literally can't OHKO at full health like in Demon's Souls, so you just get knocked down
99% of the criticism of this lies about being able to instantly die, but that's only if you refuse to heal. Two lessons taught in one scene.

There aren't too many instances of trial and error.
Name five instances that can't be circumvented through a cautious approach.

Nobody gets one shotted by the fire regardless of the class unless you are walking with less than half your health right after a bonfire into a giant pile of scorched corpses in which case, you deserve it.

>butthurt
it was a joke you spastic
why do I even bother? you fucks are the dumbest

>animle image

...

I won't defend those repeating textures

>attached image is an "avatar"
you have to go back

>dirty phil
kill urself bro

MERELY
PRE
TEN
DING

>we can only "debate" in my bubble of arbitrary rules
Not him but what a faggot post dasu

/thread

>le giantdad haha amirite redit?

get better

you are such a fuckinf stupid jaded shit jesus christ
my post, the second post, was a joke. i dont know shit about sprinting in dark souls
fucking kill yourself you jaded Cred Forumsermin

There's no bonfire between Taurus Demon and the bridge. You'd have to be one dense motherfucker to keep pushing forward if you were low on health and out of healing, and that's not even a possible situation since you get a humanity for beating Taurus Demon.

>Thread is still arguing after this was posted

Cred Forums just likes arguing/circlejerking too much nowadays.

>First mimic is pretty easy to spot, it's the weirdest placement of a chest in the game
Like I said, I thought it was suspicious, and I think most people are going to be suspicious of a strangely placed chest in a fortress full of traps, it's just that no one expects it to fucking eat you. It's a bullshit death, but a really minor one (like a five minute setback if you're really cautious about going through the area), and I'd say it's completely worth it for the effect it has.
>is there a way to avoid damage if you don't react until you see/hear the dragon?
I don't think so. Trying to run back has never worked for me, and even if it did you'd be even more fucked since you now have to deal with the dragon's regular breath attack, which will definitely kill you.

>nigga i was just poking fun at some fucko failing to correct his grammar twice.
Alright, my bad then.
The rest of your post is trash, if you don't care about the fanbase and the threads in which you post and discuss in AT ALL you shouldn't even be here in the first place, you are part of the problem.
"Seeing dumb shit" is different than what the grade 4 cancer this fanbase turned into. But enjoying playing down something that is rightly considered absolute crap even for this shithole's standards.
>/thread
>when it has nothing to do with what this thread is about.
Dumb brainlet.

>my game is perfect (insert forced meme)
>i think the game has flaw
>no it doesn't
>b-but it might actually be flawed from my subjective perspective
>no yur just an idiot
Ah, the socratic method, I see.

Sprint to the right.

the initial flame blast is super weak

>Spain is now Italy
The state of Amerifa... oh wait, never realised that some serial killer kid started a shooting in your geography class

Well I can't disprove that the game has a lot of trial and error because that would require going through the whole thing and pointing out each potential instance of trial and error and showing that it isn't trial and error if you have eyes located in the general vicinity of your head. It's easier to just ask for a few instances of trial and error and disprove those. If there are really so many then five or another arbitrary number would be fairly reasonable.
If there are only one or two, such as the crumbling floor during Bed of Chaos then it wouldn't really equate to the whole game being full of trial and error.
And yes, you can technically and rather obviously learn through trial and error but you don't necessarily always have to.

Aren't there developer bloodstains?

Did you misquote or something?

Whatever. You die one time, you lose one minute of progress. Now you know. I don't see why this makes you so mad

Are you retarded or something?

This, seethe is MUCH worse, but at least it changed the gameplay up a little bit, imo.

People tend to ignore things that prove them wrong

If you didn't kill the Hellkite Drake on your first playthrough, you are the scrublord.

The true bullshit in that situation, and one of I think only two that are really just inexcusable (the other being the first Seath fight) is the elevator. If you take the master key you can arrive at an elevator that goes both up into spikes and down to the mimic and there's blood on it so you know that one direction must be dangerous but until you step on you have no idea which.

>Aren't there developer bloodstains?
Well shit, there might be. Now I kinda feel like doing a half-assed speedrun to check.

>waah where is cinematic over-the-shoulder view and a minimap

First post once again proving it is best post.

i came here to discuss the game, but as you can clearly see this thread is no longer a discussion of a videogame, its a discussion of the fanbase.
90% of DaS threads become a flamewar between fanatics trying to defend every aspect of their favourite VIDEO GAME and the people who want to get them angry for fun.

the bridge bit was fun, at least for me, biggest flaw this game has is lost izalith

>if you do X,Y and Z it's totally not a problem and also it's completely reasonable to do these things without prior knowledge!

no

W-what?.....

The whole point of the demonstration is that it won't be able to kill you even if you slowly walk to the alcove while naked, provided you have over half health.

>all the replies
You b8 swallowing faggots...

You seem to have missed the point of that webm entirely.

i really don't understand then, my first reaction and most peoples i'd imagine is to panick and run back to where i came from, also the flames did a lot more damage to me even when wearing full knight armor

>soulsfags will defend this

it pretty much is what this thread is about user

'cause you're a BITCH

I don't understand what you mean about the elevator.
I'm iffy on the start of the Nito fight, too. I like that it tricks you into getting hit by Gravelord sword, but being forced to take fall damage to do it seems stupid.
Maybe if there was no fog gate so that the sword catches the people who try to buff, rather than the ones who heal after taking forced damage.

No, nothing wrong with the drake. Why do even bash Dark Souls 1 when THIS exists? Fuck, I can't find pics but remember these ledges near bonfires in the game that you can't climb? Brilliant level design

that might be true but that's also not argument boyo el soyo

git
gud
fgt

I honestly don't understand why this is such a meme. It is actually impossible for the drake to one shot you, unless you have like 10HP or something. All it serves is to scare the shit out of you, make you panic for an escape, and most likely make you find the shortcut to the bonfire.

what about the bonfire that spawns enemies in direct LOS to you within like 30 feet. who also have crossbows

but when you consider that this happens post bossfight it becomes a whole lot more reasonable a thing to complain about don't you think?

that's the point, they want you to freak out when you see that after the bossfight you ain't getting a rest.
You kids really gotta stop being so whiny, and not in a "get gud" way. There's a ton of trash in this game but that bit isn't one of them

Either make it avoidable in a 1st playthrough or don't put it after a boss. It's not hard.

but again, unless you have NO estus and very low health, the fire can't kill you even if you are naked. There is some video on YouTube that shows how the first fire shot does very little damage.
Is it scary on a first play through? Sure. But that doesn't mean its bullshit.

>There is some video on YouTube that shows how the first fire shot does very little damage.
I can't find it, maybe it was a WebM I saw here. Dammit.

>soulsfags will defend this
>it pretty much is what this thread is about user
Our discussion wasn't, I think OP is wrong and I completely agree with , and the guy I was talking to said that he liked the bridge part as well .
My problem wasn't "soulsfags will defend this", I was defending that too, but "soulsfags must use every single possible excuse to post absurd made up bullshit to force that "I'm more hardcorest shit ever, I swear" crap in every single thread", like did.

In the room with the mimic there's an elevator that goes up, stops at a floor where you can disembark, then continues up into some spikes. If you're going the normal way that's all well and good because there's blood on the elevator that strongly suggests that you should get off as soon as possible, but if you take the master key you can arrive at that elevator when it's at the upper floor at which point if it's your first time you basically have to flip a coin "Is the blood on the elevator from something a floor above me or a floor below me?"

>taking a photograph of a screen
holy fuck, you have to go back

>that's the point, they want you to freak out when you see that after the bossfight you ain't getting a rest.

but that's just bad design i'd argue, the game needs to have peaks and valleys, and past this point there aren't any similar situation where you can get fucked right after the bossfight by some unavoidable damage, no need to assume im some kiddy either, don't be so angry, i've been playing videogames for a good 21 years

i guess yeah if you've got like 1/3rd a bar left it's only really a problem, it just seems unnecessary is all, why couldn't he just have flown over, or had a better telegraph so the player could avoid it, i'd argue that any unavoidable hit is always bullshit

It's a different one. I made the webm just now specifically because this topic comes up fairly often and I saw the video you're referring to once but haven't been able to find it again whenever the topic comes up.

im saying whiny in a sense that you are starting to forget what videogames of this type are about. The moment you kill the taurus demon for the first time your heart is pumping and all you can think about is getting on a bonfire, hoping not to die on the way. That's the thrills n chills portion of the game, and they know it. That's why they tease you with the idea of dying and losing your shit. It is indeed bad (good) design

There's nothing to defend, the dragon does fuck all damage on a first pass, he only becomes lethal once he nests at the end and you try to pass.

Except that if you come from above you can watch the elevator go into the spikes.

i guess im just not that kind of player, i more often felt frustrated than i did thrilled with dark souls 1, ninja gaiden black gets me going though, too each their own

A regular player going in blind will NOT react that way, they'll panic and go back to sunbro to think some strategy.

good taste brotha, glad to see two anons having a good discussion in this cesspool of a thread.

aye

Well then they're just fine either way now aren't they? Point is the first blast is extremely easy to survive and once you know the dragon is there it's hardly an unfair encounter.

This. The damage for AoE flame attacks in this game is all fucked up and changes depending on where you are. You can be in different parts of the bridge and take different damage.

This part is really cool in concept, but they fucked it up a bit. I remember trying to tank the dragon fire with upgraded fire resistant armor, fire resistance ring, flash sweat pyromancy, etc. and the fire still killed me in a couple seconds. Kind of dumb you can't do it that way if you want to.

>see the drake multiple times beforehand
>not already know about this bullshit due to playing demon's souls

Get out.

Git gud.

Git gud and provide evidence otherwise nobody cares that some baby is mad because bad.

you seem to care very very much user

Aight bich, here's the director's word, saying both careful observation and trial and error are necessary.

MP: Will someone that didn't play Demon’s Souls be able to jump into Dark Souls?

>HM: Yes absolutely. Even though I mentioned previously that the game is actually more difficult than Demon’s Souls, all the difficulties can be overcame by many trials and errors. I think the game is like a very spicy food. Yes it is very spicy, but still edible.

>I am sure you will die a lot in the game, but the game is designed in a way which a player can learn from his deaths. By experiencing a lot of deaths in the game, I am hoping that a player can find out how he can overcome each difficulty in the game.

>Finally, the difficulties in the game can be overcome by trial and errors as well as careful observation. A player does not have to be really good at playing an action game. All you need are observations and trial and errors. So people who did not play Demon’s Souls will be able to play this game for sure. Even though I am not good at playing an action game, game design was created so that even I can beat the game.

communityvoices.post-gazette.com/arts-entertainment-living/the-game-guy/30157-hidetaka-miyazaki-talks-dark-souls

I care about the potential to see evidence, but otherwise I do not.

In game evidence?

>play for the first time
>die to it once
>oh well
>run back
>don't die to it again

wow

>as well as careful observation
You can technically trial and error your way through but careful observation will yield the same reward. You can technically trial and error your way through a test that always remains the same but if it also has an obvious solution it isn't really trial and error. You didn't have to try something and fail to reach the goal but the option was open to you.

Pretty sure the breath can't even kill you at full health, even on release.

GEE I SAW A HUGE DRAGON LAND IN FRONT OF ME IN THE PREVIOUS AREA AND THIS ENTIRE BRIDGE IS SCORCHED TO SHIT

IT'S PROBABLY FINE TO GO ACROSS

And technically you can guess the intended purpose of every item in a point a click game, too, but most people would agree that they are fairly trial and error. Again, I never even posited that this was a bad thing, just that it was a true statement. The game is designed with trial and error in mind, that's why the bonfires work the way that they do, and that's why the penalty for death is, compared to most games, nonexistent. It's not BAD that the game can be trial and error, it just IS.

Anybody still trying to argue that this is bullshit after this got posted is without a doubt mentally challenged. Retarded shitters who are as good at vidya as game """journalists""" shouldn't be allowed to post.

Its certainly not very good but the game will do far worse than that
Soulsfags will defend THIS

But you don't have to go through the game by way of trial and error alone. The game is simply lenient enough that the player can learn by dying rather than by playing cautiously and skillfully at all times.
Saying that the game is trial and error implies that it's the only way to learn things in it when this is simply not the case.

Please list the parts of the game that it is unreasonable for a cautious player to survive on the first attempt. The fact that the game makes trial and error a simple way to progress has no impact on the fact that the overwhelming majority of the game only actually requires you to pay attention to your surroundings to survive the first attempt.

I never said that a cautious player couldn't beat difficult parts of the game though, even on the first try, just that the game was trial and error by design. I won't argue a point that I'm not trying to make, most hazards can be avoided if you're careful, but most hazards are also designed to kill quickly if you aren't. This coupled with the fact that you have infinite lives means that the game facilitates trial and error design. Stop trying to inject other arguments into my posts.

>Aight bich, here's the director's word, saying both careful observation and trial and error are necessary.
Maybe if you don't want people to address that argument you shouldn't make that argument.

>PVE

>the game's difficulty comes from dealing with the NPCs and the AI ! playing offline c-counts too!

...

"Fairness" in singleplayer games is probably the single worst meme in all of vidya.

pvp in souls games is crap and nothing but backstab fishing and/or rollcatching, the combat really isn't complex enough to make for interesting pvp

Pantyhose is my fetish.

But I conceded that careful observation is also necessary in that actual sentence? Nowhere in that post did I say that there are parts of the game you cannot beat with careful observation. The "error" in trial and error can mean more than just death, you know that don't you? Even the act of walking onto the bridge in the OP, even with observational skills you still are left to plod blindly, unaware of what exactly caused the burns on the bridge. Maybe we just have different definitions of trial and error?

>let's shit on the enemy placement in that one game, which actually tries to be fair

man you suck

This again?

It only fucks you up if you fall for it twice.
youtube.com/watch?v=YkT8gZ6I-uU

are you?
I bet you don't even know what counter hits are

What's causing the difference in damage here? Not contesting the points you're trying to make but I'm curious.

I knew shit was going to go down the moment I saw the alcoves.

running makes you take a lot more damage I guess

Speaking of
please see

>dark souls 3
>kill wyvern ez pz with 500 damage bleed procs
>nameless king
>teleports behind me
>does a 360 spin and moons walks away
>flies into the sky and slams his greatsword into me,one hit killing me
>all this done in one second

Nameless King is one of the slowest bosses.

You guys were probably sprinting. Sprinting makes you take way more damage in every souls game.

Even getting hit sprinting as a naked base-level sorcerer leaves you with 1/3 health.

cheapest feeling part of DS3 are some of the red phantoms/hostile NPCs. They have some really bullshit mid-attack turns.
Namely the lady with the butcher knife, who raises it up, then instantly spins to face you before slamming it down.

The same attack using her weapon does not have you rotate after lifting the blade.

I just watched a guy start up his first ever game of Souls.

He passed the bridge without dying to the fire once. He's only got 6 deaths and he just killed the boar.

>see scorch marks on the ground
>WELL OBVIOUSLY FROM THAT TIP OFF YOU SHOUKDVE KNOWN A DRAGON WAS GONNA FLY DOWN AND SET THE WHOLE BRIDGE ON FIRE
I love DS1 but even I recognize its bullshit

The initial attack when he first shows up is intentionally scaled so it can't kill you at full HP regardless of how low your VIT is, what you're wearing, or if you're running.

It's only the attack he does once he's already perched on the tower that does any real damage.

It's really not that hard to figure out considering you saw a huge dragon land right in your face a bit earlier.

See if your weapon has a good rolling attack, it's easier to fit those at the end if his combos. You can really wail on him when he charges his lightning strikes later on as well.

I found it more bullshit how you need to take 1/5th of your health in damage every time you fight the necromancer boss, unless you happened to put points into magic for one utility spell you'll use once (unless you hate ladders)

they fixed that in sotfs

It teaches you to stay cool and react intelligently when something unexpected happens.

How it should play out is that you go forward and get scorched once (which doesn't kill you).
The dragon then lands and there's a small amount of time before he breathes again.
This gives you a moment to react, if you're not an idiot, you run for the nearest cover, which is the mid bridge's wall or the stairs on the right, but they're hard to spot.
Pick either one and another wall of flame comes, and you're not hit.
You can then either charge under the dragon (dumb) or look around for other options and notice the stairs leading down (smart).

Even if the dragon could oneshot you the first time around, which it can't, there's a reason why you aren't punished for dying to something once.

You haven't actually lost any meaningful progress unless you die twice to the same thing, or once, and then to something you've already made it past previously.

Dying once is a learning experience, stop acting like it's this huge setback.

He's actually not that hard, and the run up to him is easy as hell compared to Sir Alonne.

should have put some stats into adp

Learn how to make webms. That one is so bit starved it makes kids in Ethiopia look obese.

That was the dumbest fucking stat in a game ever.

>too low adp
>dodge feels clunky and you're constantly hit by things you visibly dodged, making the game seem buggy and unfair

>too high adp
>can dodge at your relaxed leisure when the time is right and you feel like a dodge could do you some good

>most points in it between the two extremes just feel like they do nothing

dont forget it speeds up your estus drink too

I knew I was forgetting some other reason it was shit.

really? i thought it was a pretty obvious trap, seeing as there's a suspicious big open area with an obvious place to duck into just in time. i don't remember if i thought it would be a dragon it had to be an indiana jones rolling rock or a section of bridge falling down or something

What's considered high ADP? I'm at 26 and i'm only just now feel confident in my rolls.

What you really want is to look at your AGL stat. You want a minimum of 100.

GET FUCKING TRASHED thanks

Literally wrong. Different attacks from the dragon take different amounts of health.
The attack he uses when he first swoops down across the bridge will always deal pitiful amounts of damage. Even if you're sprinting it's only going to be about 40% of your health if you're naked with low VIT.

the only trial and error bullshit in DaS is bed of chaos. everything else is literally git gud, fag

why

pvp is not a legit answer

lol
the first time I played I had heard about the drake and thought I'd die but it really does pitiful damage

>I don't think so. Trying to run back has never worked for me, and even if it did you'd be even more fucked since you now have to deal with the dragon's regular breath attack, which will definitely kill you.
Funny because I never got damaged on the bridge, even on my first playthrough. Why? because what I'd learned in this game so far was to be VERY cautious, specially when seeing such a wide, inviting area. Advanced cautiously, heard the rumble of the flames, ran back, hid behind the wall. Done.

>99% of the criticism of this lies about being able to instantly die
99% of that criticism lies about being hot-headed and expecting to be able to run through the game like one would in Doom.

You can bait it very easily, and then run to the midpoint no problem.

I can understand why most people get caught by it, but you have fair warning. There's burnt corpses on the bridge, you saw the drake earlier, and you can hear him coming before he breathes fire.