He's no hero

>Believing sandnigger lies
>believing government lies

He got back at his superiors and received copious amounts of positive attention, notoriety, and money in the process. Our kids will be learning about him in history books. People have done more for less.

I'm denying the claim that Snowden was a hero, not that the leaks were important. The leaks were important, and Snowden is not a hero in part because he leaked so many documents that had nothing to do with his alleged cause and were legitimate state secrets.

>can never come back to USA
>felony charges
>has to live in russia as a shamed ex pat forever

yeah he was just mad at his boss

>I'm denying the claim that Snowden was a hero, not that the leaks were important

People do plenty of irrational things in the name of vengeance.

What is your point?

there is no evidence he profited from the leaks

> He claimed to have obtained a high school degree equivalent when in fact he never did.
Wow... just wow. Some one is butt hurt about Snowden.

>What is your point?

Or basically Snowden isn't a statist bootlicking cuck sycophant like you.

>The leaks were important

>the report said.

He profited in terms of attention. He is one of the most important individuals of the last 2 decades.

He profited in terms of money. He charges tens of thousands of dollars for some of the talks he does.

>He profited in terms of attention.

>he did it for free

cry more

If you don't believe in government and aren't native American, you have no business in this country. You are free to leave and never come back.

>not a hero because he did it for the wrong reasons

nigga u dumb af

user snowden ruined his life for everybody. He opened the eyes of the public to how the NSA was actively spying. I'm not even an American and I have a lot of respect for this guy. He knew the repercussions and did it anyways.

>t.politicianbuttlicker

>native American
great forest spirit wants me to tell you to fuck off

>I hate privacy, data-mine me please
>democide me if you will it
>I don't like freedom
>I like to say I have freedom but not really have freedom

This level of government is not what the founding fathers had in mind you ignorant cunt

Nice bait.

It was already well known that the NSA had tapped the fibre links and were gulping up all the information it could find and storing it for usage later. All the snowden revelations about xkeyscore etc.. was merely confirmation. In my opinion he didn't go far enough.
Also discrediting snowden is literally counter intelligence 101.

Of course your reasons matter for determining whether or not you are a hero. A thief is running from the owner of the wallet he stole, he trips over a hobo who happened to be asleep, and the owner is able to get the guy and get his wallet back. The hobo is not some hero. He didn't make a decision to help. He just happened to be there.

Wow, you're right user. I guess the NSA was the good and this guys was just a poser all along. I need to go sign up for helping the NSA right away and keep our country safe.

>>native American
>great forest spirit
Brother Gliptodon here asks me to tell you to kindly go the fuck back through Bering

also navajos and apache are chinks

Except snowden didn't accidentally release these documents. He knew what they were and made a decision that he felt it should be known to the public. Your analogy is pretty shit desu.

His life is not ruined. He is a significant figure who is not considered particularly many but a small few (those within the US government), and is loved by millions of people who've given him millions of dollars for his actions.

Everyone knew that big brother was always there. Espionage isn't what was needed to make that clear.

I will BRB with a bunch of different arguments to try out until you accept that the NSA is heroic and Snowden is not.

How about if the hobo thought he'll get rewarded, ran after the thief, managed to tackle him, and got stabbed?

I like privacy and freedom. If Snowden had only exposed the programs that actually challenged our privacy and freedom, and not so many things that had were legitimately secret, I would like him as much as you apparently do.

The level of government the founding fathers had in mind is not what libertarians have in mind either. Your point?

What the fuck is an hero?

It's not that I like him. It's that I dislike authoritarian cucks like you. It's people like you that are to blame for the surveillance police state we live in and what's coming next.

The founding fathers fought the first successful revolt against the british empire and founded the most important nation of the past 250+ years, largely so they could keep making bank on shipments of hemp and cargo they outright stole.
Quit being a faggot

He's gotta be strong, and he's gotta be fast, and he's gotta be fresh from the fight

How did I know this was a meme before I even googled that?

Not only that, but the US would not even exist if the brits had had even a tenth of the state surveillance capabilities that the US exercises over its own people.

>>"He claimed to have left Army basic training because of broken legs when in fact he washed out because of shin splints.

how the fuck does one just 'wash out' of the army

>He claimed to have obtained a high school degree equivalent when in fact he never did."

this can go both ways, he's either too incompetent to get a high school degree in which case one of the most severe intelligence breaches in history was done by the hands of a high school drop out working as a contractor, or he was capable of getting his fucking HIGH SCHOOL degree and didn't for whatever reason - and nobody would fucking care if it weren't for this congress report trying to smear him

>Snowden claimed to have worked for the CIA as a senior adviser, when he was a computer technician.

people exaggerate on their CVs about their position all the time, never mind in less formal situations

>"He also doctored his performance evaluations and obtained new positions at NSA by exaggerating his resume and stealing the answers to an employment test," the report said.

again, exaggerating on his CV, who the hell cares, literally everybody does this

I really don't see the strategy congress is taking here, the NSA is already incompetent as a result of letting contractors access a large bulk of their network beyond the clearances of regular NSA staff, however they're only making the NSA seem far more incompetent by painting snowden as a high school and army trainee drop out that had to cheat on his test to get employed to the NSA in the first place

go for broke and hope the public comes to despise snowden I guess?

>He got back at his superiors and received copious amounts of positive attention, notoriety, and money in the process.

yeah but now he lives off the grid in fucking russia

he profits from doing talks which people view as important for some reason

FUCK YOU FAGGOT, HE IS A HERO AND A FIGHTER FOR PRIVACY!

The point of the analogy was to illustrate that intentions matter. Whether they're positive, negative, or no-existent. Your reading skills are better than that.

Let's put it like this: John is chasing after Bob because Bob stole money from him. Bob's ex-girlfriend, Suzy, who Bob dumped after finding out she was cheating on him with Chad, happens to see Bob running from John. Suzy is still upset at Bob for dumping her and knows that Bob stole money from John. John and Bob come in her direction and Suzy sticks her leg out so Bob trips, falls, and John is able to beat Bob's ass and get his money back.

Suzy wasn't a hero. Suzy just wanted to see bad things happen to Bob out of spite.

You don't know what's coming next, user.

What do you think is coming next? You're wrong, whatever you think it is. America is the only thing coming next. Freedom is what's coming next.

I'm not reading any of that

>Cred Forums - Technology
reported and saged

But the position you've been arguing from is that what Snowden did was a bad thing, which is incorrect. It's like when Trump says "kill the traitor" because he has no concept of the dangers of mass surveillance leading to statist governments using fear tactics and spying to control the populace.

>What do you think is coming next? You're wrong, whatever you think it is. America is the only thing coming next. Freedom is what's coming next.
You're sadly mistaken. Politicians haven't been increasing the freedom of Americans, they've been taking it away gradually. Every new administration decreases civil liberties. These naive words let me know you haven't been old enough to vote yet to realize voting makes no difference because they have chosen for you the candidates long before they get get 'elected.'

pic unrelated but fucking fantastic

what's up with all the deleted posts though? refresh the page and half the thread disappears

>It was already well known that the NSA had tapped the fibre links and were gulping up all the information it could find and storing it for usage later.
>Everyone knew that big brother was always there.

you clearly missed the memo that anybody speculating on the matter pre-snowden leaks must have been tinfoil hat levels of paranoid

the only difference now is that anybody concerned about it is tinfoil hat levels of paranoid because "the government doesn't care about you on an individual level"

To live in exile is to live in punishment. Historically, exile has always been a punishment below execution and lifetime imprisonment. Snowden, an American national, his life is ruined in America because of a corrupt government who finds no fault in their own corruption.

No, that is completely wrong. Speculation and rumor is nothing but hearsay and has no meaning. Speculation and hearsay is the best that we had before Snowden's testimony and hard evidence. Without hard evidence (espionage) and credible testimony (he was an eyewitness) the government would have easily dismissed PRISM as something rumor and hearsay.

The NSA didn't write the report. A Congressional committee did.

The point of the report was basically to give the real story on who Snowden was to counter the portrayal of Snowden in the movie.

>what's up with all the deleted posts though?
OP is deleting them because he's getting BTFO

Snowden did do a bad thing. He released millions of document that did not shine a light on something the public needed to see, but things for national security reasons we don't want public. The fact that he also released something the public should be able to see (mass surveillance), makes what he did less wrong, but still wrong enough for his actions to not be seen as a good thing in aggregate.

But this is partially separate from whether he is a "Hero." A hero needs to INTEND to do a good, heroic thing. If it were the case that he released only documents on mass domestic surveilance, but his intentions were squarely to retaliate against his superiors, he would still not be a hero.

No you've clearly missed the point. It wasn't a tin foil level paranoia. It was well known fact. There's even doco about it where we learn about 2nd street at&t building and all that mess. It was almost mainstream information. Anybody 'operating in the field' would have already known about this and no one is naive enough to believe that just because it's on google its secure and the NSA/etc. Can't break in.
All snowden did is release some PowerPoint's about this shit. Nothing he did reveal anything new. Just a bunch of meaningless detail about products we never saw ever. Not a single company could confirm their Cisco router as hacked, no one could present anything.

He didn't actually do that friendo. What Snowden did was release a few slides about secret programs that the public needed to know. Snowden did not release millions of documents.

>The NSA didn't write the report. A Congressional committee did.

I know, hence:

>I really don't see the strategy congress is taking here

I rephrased that paragraph a little and didn't proof read before submitting, allow me to clarify,

>however [congress are] making the NSA seem far more incompetent

I haven't deleted any posts in this thread except one with a typo which I reposted. The individual spamming pictures of cute girls had their posts deleted. If he's shitpositng here, he's probably shitposting elsewhere, and mods have the ability to delete a range of posts from an IP.

No one could show the proof of concept of any of the of the hacks. Even Snowdon couldn't prove the existence of the ultra leet hacking squad which goes after people.
However the new scheme after the people got up in arms about this 'mass surveillance' that is internet companies will willingly cooperate with these 'private security' firms or pay the cost. Well that system does have legs.

The issue has never been if he's a hero for leaking the truth of mass surveillance, it's that mass surveillance is happening and that it is illegally happening. Shills like you want to put a slant on the whole thing because your heads are far up your butts and you like the long dick of the law deep up your asses because you're a bunch of statist cucks and some of you are actually disinformation agents doing psychological operations on the public.

Just right now are some 'evidence' showing up like what a person records look like on xkeyscore. Well and truly after the fact.

>This makes sense when you consider most of the documents don't have anything to do with domestic privacy
are you retarded, just ignorant, or a true shill? we are talking about a intelligence agency that collected millions of phone calls from/to the US, an agency that is part of a global empire

how does this, in any way, proves that snowden did it against his boss(es) and not as a legit whistle blower (whatever that means)?
have you ever learned/been taught logic?

this

Can anyone explain to me how does Snowdens bitch get to leave america and go to Russia to live with him?

So all the media companies got their hands on those documents automagically is what you're saying?

You're pulling this straight out of your ass friend. The public had no idea Verizon was handing all their customers phone records over to the NSA. And show me a mention of PRISM anywhere before 2013. And GCHQ and Tempora. How about evidence of the real purpose of XKeyscore? There's tons of shit that you will never find evidence of having been mentioned before Snowden. If I'm wrong, post a source.

Can any explain why millennials are so horrible at forming sentences like this chap.

He lost his "hero" status when he leaked America's foreign spying operations.

The difference between you and I is that while I think violations of privacy should be exposed, I don't believe the ends of exposing them are always justified by the means.

The issue of mass surveilance is separate from whether or not Snowden is a hero and deserving of a pardon. No one is conflating the issues here but you, who apparently doesn't care what Snowden does in the process of doing something you believe needs to be done. If Snowden had killed your mother to leak the documents, you'd still worship him

Snowden did not release millions of secret documents. Media companies did release many secret government documents that were given to them by Snowden. Snowden did not order them to do that so that was not his issue.

The education policy of "No child left behind" has brought us to this state.

>If Snowden had killed your mother to leak the documents, you'd still worship him
kek are you retarded?

Ur retarded for believing information which is sourced from a PowerPoint.
It plain does not matter if your phone records are handed over. That shit is pretty fucking easy to get to begin with and with the FISA court forget about it, its rubber stamp heaven. You're still missing the point. It was already in the collective consciousness. People were already aware not to type bomb in your email because you'll end up on a watchlist if you do.

Great explanation as to why the girlfriend of someone who was grand juried and charged as traitor would be able to leave the us and go to Russia to live with him. What's that called again? Providing aid to the enemy or something?

all this coming now when you have a movie about the guy made by oliver balls.
Fuck you shill, go away.

That never happened shill

>state secrets

The US intelligence apparatus only exists to defend the jewish cabal emanating from the privately owned US central bank(s). I mean it's good the government borrows money from it's own central bank that prints it otherwise how would you get paid right

The girlfriend is someone we know absolutely nothing about. There's barely even any photos on her which is weird since she's a 'dancer'. No performance, no photos nothing.

>I'm a shill
>ur not a shill
Wew lad

>says the ends don't justify the means
>implying that the means (if heroic) decides whether the ends are justified

Dummy.

And again:

I fail to see what exposing military base locations and American diplomacy tactics have to do with domestic privacy.

Snowden frequently got into with his bosses. Snowden stole the documents not long after reprimand. Snowden has a history* of being outlandish out of butthurt. Taking all that into account, the idea that he was retaliating is not baseless at all.

*arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/exclusive-in-2009-ed-snowden-said-leakers-should-be-shot-then-he-became-one/

Snowden must give the best tongue baths ever ever or this bitch is the new patty Hearst cuz she is on the hook for a capital crime if I'm not mistaken.

>I'm shilling for the government

>playing the race card
Wew lad

Snowden was just an edgey american teenager who made up elaborate stories to get fame to be like julian assange.

If you actually watch interviews with snowden you can see hes full of shit he doesn't talk much because he forgets his own stories and lies

"I threw Johnny in the lion's pit, but, you see, you can't blame me for his death. The lion's killed him!"

You are being ridiculous. The only documents Snowden was justified in turning over were the ones that concerned mass domestic surveillance.

I'll show you my true card game

Opinions like these only come from statist bootlicking shills. Every time people like you are called out on this fact, when you try to prove otherwise it's not even believable and you're exposed as a authoritarian cuck who's ok with living in a police state.

That's exactly what Snowden did. Snowden did not do anything else.

You haven't posted sources to anything to back your claim that this info was previously known. Be gone shill

and where does he say he did it ONLY because of privacy reasons?

>Snowden frequently got into with his bosses
have you ever thought that, perhaps, he had planned infiltrating them and releasing info from the very same moment he joined these intelligence agencies/companies?

once again, have you ever learned/been taught logic?

things aren't black vs white, there are lots of possibilities. YOU have to give EVIDENCE, based on FACTS, to support your theory(ies).

>EVERYONE BELIEVE THESE INTERNAL NSA REPORTS ABOUT SNOWDEN, THEY'RE IN THE MEDIA SO THEY'RE TRUSTWORTHY, THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T CONTROL THE MEDIA AT ALL, THE STATE DEPARTMENT DOESN'T PUT IN ORDERS TO FOR MULTICULTI TO HOLLYWOOD OR ANYTHING, THE US MEDIA HAS NO AGENDA AT ALL AND OUR DEMOCRACY IS FUNCTIONAL

Nice job perpetuating the snowden=assange msm meme.
Assange is the real deal. Snowden is weird. If you watched citizen 4 you see greenfag and poitrus showing snowden the second "real" NSA leak and like a bunch of fucking losers they were like writing things on paper cuz the room might be bugged or some shit and every time snowden was like whoa dude this is like dangerous.
If the second NSA leak went to assange he would have posted it all.

ITT: butt hurt teenagers who are sad that their hero is actually human

That's what the jews want you to think

Who cares if he fought with his bosses? He probably saw how they betray the American people every day of their lives.

>Snowden's character is more important than the fact that mass surveillance is occurring

This is called argumentum ad hominem, a tactic only ever used when they want to deflect on the real problem, the mass surveillance itself. The other tactic shills like you like to do is straw man arguments, and I've seen some already ITT.

We already know from one of government briefings that the newspapers would choose a document or whatever and the send it to the government where the government themselves would tell the newspaper which bit to publish and what to leave out. This is like fucking bullshit. Its not proper disclosure AFAIK.

You're just pretending to be retarded right?

Hey man do you need a copy of cointelpro or something? You look lost.

Nope :^)

JIDF detected. Only Jews would bring up Jews when it's out of context to do so. Again, notice how he's deflecting the statements here because he's a bootlicking statist shill: Again see:

Please post

of course he's a human, and he could have done it for the reasons stated in the OP, and/or for other reasons. but the article the OP quoted doesn't necessarily support his hypothesis...

this

My only issue with Snowden is that he didn't go deeper , but he probably didn't have the time.

Its one google away. Its public info now.

You literally just did a straw man argument as I just mentioned here:

>US media is controlled by the government, which is why they leaked documents that harmed the government.

Snowden posted what was most relevant. He didn't take up the cause to collect hard evidence about what you have in your post.

>So it's been confirmed
The guy gave up something like a $200k salary a year. I don't think it was retaliation. He knew the consequences for what he was doing were going to be very severe and he knew he would have to leave the country for a long time.
I think he did what he did because he thought what he was seeing was wrong. I won't take a position on whether or not I think what he did was right or wrong, but I think it's pretty idiotic that anyone could think that he did this for anything other than principle. The guy wasn't an idiot and he was stationed overseas as an operative. He had to not only throw the money away but all his former work experience doesn't count for nearly as much as it would have now.

>snowden gave all the leaks to american media

So therefore the government's purpose was to expose themselves? What's your point?

Exactly that's why I said it was my only issue with him. He probably didn't have the time as he was busy fleeing (anyway).

Read

Because that green text isn't true and you must not know much about the Snowden leaks.

This implies that he had connections to gather such information. I don't believe that he did.

I know about what's been published in the media.

snice you are so well informed, let me ask you:
what journalist published these docs, and in which newspaper(s)?

it doesn't matter why he did it

Guardian
Der Spiegel
Nyt

→

>Guardian
yep

>Der Spiegel
yep

>Nyt
nope

you are missing the most important answers... if you don't know, or if you have to google, you are clearly misinformed and talking from ignorance.

Nyt in partnership with guardian.
Its not most important answers. Fact is it wouldn't matter which mouthpiece says what since it all had to be cleared by the govt anyways.

Washington post my bad. Wow that made all the difference in the world.

So that means the government intentionally exposed their own secret program with their own media companies. That's supposed to be rational?

The story was already out. Are you attempting to be rational? I don't think you are because you also imply the US government has no influence over the media or what they publish and we all know that's not true. Especially after Snowden rouge journalists are tried under the Espionage Act

No well maybe. No one knows for sure. There have been some grumbles about some other agencies wanting a bigger piece of a black budget pie and wanting to take it from the nsa. But what I was referring to was this

It does when trying to determine whether or not he should be pardoned.

It took balls to leak that kind of information knowing the shitstorm that was going to (and did) follow. At the end of it all, the information is all that matters. So, who cares what his motivations were?

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. That's how it's always been and always will be. Deal with it

Are you a pedophile? Surveillance has always been a thing. Or you prefer banks and stores not have video surveillance so criminals can rob them easier?

Considering the depth of corruption we now know about the US government... James Comey's deep ties to the Clinton Foundation... I wouldn't be surprised if US Intelligenct Agencies didn't receive their order top down directly from the owners of the US government (central bankers who have also had their own appointies dispersed into positions of power) so it's really a moot point

Does the government tell the media what to do? Well they both have the same owner ... don't they this international clique of people who happen to be jewish (kek)

>Especially after Snowden rouge journalists are tried under the Espionage Act
That's not evidence that the government controls the media. That's only evidence that being a media company doesn't absolve them of espionage.

>Are you a pedophile?
Ad hom again. See, that's all you shills have, ad hom and
>straw man arguments.
>Surveillance has always been a thing. Or you prefer banks and stores not have video surveillance so criminals can rob them easier?

>Nyt in partnership with guardian.
>Washington post my bad
the author of the WaPo article was associated with snowden, too. it was a single article...
I agree that the NYT and WaPo are the US govt "official sources", btw

>Its not most important answers. Fact is it wouldn't matter which mouthpiece says what since it all had to be cleared by the govt anyways.
this IMO is a non answer, and kind of tautological: "I don't care because it's not relevant for me". if you don't care about the topic, why even talk about it?

anyway, the answers are: glenn greenwald, laura poitras, the intercept. only a few articles were published elsewhere by themselves... any other articles were suspected (by greenwald himself) to be "controlled leaks" from the govt

How is a media company supposed to know what parts of a document are sensitive and should be redacted to protect innocent parties? The people who know that information the best are the government.

He was a hero, and may very well become a martyr

Oh I don't know. Find a third party. Oh wait ask to be read into the relevant op or whatever and then make the ethical determination yourself on what should and shouldn't be released. Wow so hard.

the media's response to Benghazi was just a list of talking points from the state department for 8 months

>muh ad hom
>muh strawman

do you not even have some common sense?
also,
>How is a media company
only glenn greenwald and laura poitras have the docs, according to themselves and snowden.

Banks are not the government. Stores are not the government. The government should not be storing information about the public's activities without their express consent. It is legitimate for the government to spy on individuals and groups when they are investigating them for laws and group. To spy on everybody all the time and without discrimination is far beyond acceptable.

Is the government now alleging that they were fooled and publicly humiliated by a high school drop out?
Do they not realize that only makes them look worse?

Then link it

>tfw a weeb dropout HACKED THE PLANET

>NSA gets burned by Snowden, can't catch him because Russia doesn't give a fuck
>Releases propaganda about how he's retard that cannot into office politics
>"I hate Snowden now!!"
lol

The only reason these people think it's acceptable is because they now have an US vs THEM mentality which has been cultivated by their appointed superiors (guess how they were appointed and why they were appointed)

it might be even harder to see the breadth and scope of the corruption from the inside of the government as just a gs13

cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm
vault.fbi.gov/cointel-pro

The NSA didn't write the report. Congress did.

The NSA doesn't care about Snowden anymore. Its existence doesn't depend on public perception. The ideal situation for the NSA is for the least amount of people necessary to talk about them publicly.

wtf i still think snowden is hero

>Just a gs13

Nigga a 13 is probably the corrupt one.

If you wanna find the real corruption in the government, go to the contracting office.

You're right, I think they're being corrupted by internal policy directives, or whoever is setting their optics. It seems like they have one eye watching out for the good of Israel and the other eyes on the American people to make sure they don't step out of line

that's the thing about corruption it's like a cancer and it overwhelms you from many directions, the only thing we know for sure is they are corrupt, and functioning as if they're corrupt, the evidence that does come out says they are a corrupt body