BSD And Other Things

Should I install openbsd on my pc?

That's how shit BSD is

Heard of "use cases", retard?

I just said BSD is a router OS and advised people to stay away from it from my personal experience.

Stay mad if you want to

Why should I use OpenBSD over FreeBSD

Because you're gullible and not as smart as the average person (after all, you ARE using a BSD unironically).

>implying

You're factually wrong. OpenBSD ships with its own version of X installed (called Xenocara), has support for a wide range of graphics cards, hardware and architectures. It's very usable for the desktop, but it's also not bad for routers due to how secure it is.

>BSD doesn't have udev
Sounds like a great selling point, thanks

No real drivers.

No drivers for hardware of this decade. Terrible performance, turns laptops into room heaters and literally no proprietary drivers. (Nvidia, realtek, mediatek and broadcom, HP, Epson etc says hello)

Also how's that non-existent wacom support going?

Not being able to see external drives when plugged in is what BSD good at.

Security so good that you gotta manually mount Flash drives and hope to god it didn't infect your walled garden.

OpenBSD is very easy to understand. That's one reason you might prefer it over another OS. FreeBSD isn't really hard to figure out either though, it probably comes down to preferences really.

Some things to consider with OpenBSD:
Performance is not the highest priority with OpenBSD, there's always work underway to improve performance but if it comes at the cost of security the devs wont consider it.

The security of OpenBSD is basically "always on". Applications do not get to exempt themselves from the mitigations in OpenBSD so some applications (almost all malware) are simply incompatible with OpenBSD. Those applications will likely always crash if they attempt to run on OpenBSD.

OpenBSD devs will occasionally *remove* functionality to decrease attack surface or to free up developer time for other projects so that might be another potential problem. Breakages are uncommon but lost functionality might be something to consider.

Just switch to Linux already

>Not being able to see external drives when plugged in is what BSD good at
Yep

All this hate. Lol. It runs perfectly fine and my Thinkpad T400.

BSD is a stupid joke.

Ever see people posting their BSD desktops when they are asked? No. Because they are not using it. They pretend they do. But the lack of drivers prevent them from actually using it in modern hardwares.

Did I get your attention? Nice now time for you to face the facts:

>BSD is NOT secure
Typical BSD installs are pretty minimal. There is a VERY low attack surface to exploit. This is where the "BSD is secure" rumor comes from.
However people wants softwares to actually use the system. Softwares that are not in BSD's repo. BSD has no official software builds because they are pretty much irrelevant in end-user setups. You have to rely on some compile script made by skids to get the software you want. The moment you do it - your BSD is NO LONGER secure.

FreeBSD core team has not been able to fix their portsnap vulnerability for months now.

Ex OpenBSD dev spills the beans and says there are FBI backdoors in the system. The OpenBSD team quickly audits the codebase and gets rid of a few "bugs" as soon as all these went public. The "whole" changelog is still "public".

>What are mitigations
Things that crash the software you installed from the ports. Purposefully hinders user experience.

>BSD has no softwares
Does it? Heck, you know an OS is shit when mainstream software like qBittorrent doesn't work (OpenBSD).

>BSD is not usable
Free and opensource softwares these days are developed with Linux/Systemd in mind. Don't blame RedHat for being the only people to ACTIVELY develop free software. Thus many desktop environments and software are now dependant on Systemd etc.

I have tried PC-BSD (now trueOS) and
>Cinnamon doesn't load
>NO file manager detects USB drives when I plug in
>Lumina (also avilable in Linux) is a horrible KDE4 ripoff

Wayland is not going to happen in BSD. You are stuck with the horrible screen tearing for ever.
Also the lack of drivers need a special mention.
While using BSD you don't need room heaters at all.

>there are autists that are so autistic they spend their free time writing paragraphs upon paragraphs of shitposts about things they don't like on a chinese cartoon website

Why isn't BSD used as much as GNU/Linux in industry/embedded applications?
It seems like BSD's license would be better if one wanted to keep their source code closed source, rather than following all the rules laid out by GPL.

I have to say, I got trolled by BSD community hard.

The OpenBSD handbook claims to be a "desktop OS" and so I tried it.

First time I installed it, I realised how retarded it is.

It comes with X-org in the default setup but it has no GUI installers (wtf?) Why would you include X-org if you don't have a GUI installer? I moved on.

First thing I noticed is it doesn't have the same shell as Linux and MacOS. I had to find and install bash.

Then I installed Xfce.

Good lord, I was not able to find Network Manager. I tried systemctl start network-manager but I realised BSD uses some shitty init.

Later I realised there's no network manager in BSD.

Can anyone help me with my broadcom wifi? It's a broadcom chip (BCM43142). I was using OpenBSD...

At least that user laid out specific reasons as to why he does not like BSD, and why it did not work for him.
You could at least try being constructive by stating where he is wrong, or how to handle the problems he's encountered.

>Why would you include X-org if you don't have a GUI installer?
Because even if a machine isn't running Xorg a program may still depend on Xorg. Plus having Xorg by no means means there should be a GUI installer.
>First thing I noticed is it doesn't have the same shell as Linux and MacOS. I had to find and install bash.
Literally nothing wrong with that.
>Wi-Fi
Check out wiconfig. It's cli based but a nice little script to handle things for you.

no

Well I tried running screenfetch and it didn't even work. Thank god there was bash.

Also, who thinks it's good idea to not include a GUI isntaller in a desktop OS

does anybody here use Japanese input on Open BSD in a plain window manager like fvwm or whatever, as opposed to a full-on GTK DE?

What specific programs are you using and what does your .xinitrc look like? I'm having difficulty getting uim+anthy to work in uxterm in fvwm, even though unicode characters display just fine.

>Can anyone help me with my broadcom wifi? It's a broadcom chip (BCM43142). I was using OpenBSD...
NODRIVERS

>Well I tried running screenfetch and it didn't even work. Thank god there was bash.
Well no duh, a script that needs bash won't run without bash installed.
>Also, who thinks it's good idea to not include a GUI isntaller in a desktop OS
The devs don't need an GUI installer so there isn't one. This isn't like a normal OS, they don't care if you use it or not. They're developing it for themselves. If you use it, great. If not, that's fine too.

I'm sorry, but drivers are the responsibility of the hardware producer if the hardware is closed-source. Only for open-source hardware can the OS producers be responsible for drivers.

Go find a graphics card thread to shit up.

The fuck are you on about?

The problem is that people are rating OpenBSD as a 'just werks' desktop for OSes when this has nothing to do with its use case. When people are complaining about a lack of gooeys and things like automount you can tell we're getting very confused about the nature of use case distros. These things are excluded because they would compromise the use case and the design purpose behind OpenBSD, which places the security of the base system above all other considerations.

By the way, the OpenBSD installer takes about a minute, and you can blaze through most of it by just hitting Enter. Why exactly you would want a GUI larger than the install script itself in the first place is beyond me.

>no gui installer
Fucking LOL. It is retardedly easy to install.

Where did I say it wasn't?

It you want to be OBSD developer.

>see bsd thread
>"golly i sure like bsd let's see what sort of bsd things are being discussed"
>the same memes as always
r.i.p.

This. I just use OpenBSD because it literally just works, it's about as painless as windows to install and get up and running. The whole 'UNIX is le hard for hardcore coders only xD' meme is pushed by elitists who think they're special for knowing about UNIX, but UNIX isn't anymore difficult than Linux. It just takes a bit of getting used to.

Turns out you need to set LANG to ja_JP.UTF8 for the xim bridge to recognize it. Then just press shift + space. I don't think it's needed for GTK or QT. Has to do with the archiac nature of XIM.

Seriously. Compare the install process for Arch or Gentoo vs OpenBSD. The former two are just pure masturbation.

In OpenBSD, you can set WPA networks directly through ifconfig and never have to use wpa_supplicant crap again.

This, FreeBSD and OpenBSD have the best installers that I've ever used. Lightweight, just werks and does everything for you. Literally perfection

FreeBSD's installer is a bit more complex, but still pretty straightforward. I absolutely love the menus though, it's a great touch.

>Wayland is not going to happen in BSD
thats why dragonfly totally didnt run it

>FBI backdoor FUD that was never found or implied to be found 6 years later
Stopped reading your shitpost there

>you should argue with an incurable shitposter who will never ever listen
no

wtf

detected the hentai loving laptop addict right here.

install it on a real piece of hardware fuckface.

Welp that's it I'm a #torvaldsmissile now

100% mad as fukk

Broadcom + OpenBSD == what the fuck are you even trying to do ?

Be mad all you like.

The OS is not the problem here.

Typical bsdtard blaming everyone else

Proprietary hardware is a cancer killing the planet.

He's trying really hard to find as many things to complain about as possible, don't mind him he just shitposts in this thread everyday.

it got to the point where he started defending proprietary software and drivers despite the fact that he's a freetard

its pretty sad

>(Nvidia, realtek, mediatek and broadcom, HP, Epson etc says hello)

Actually, hp and a lot of other printer companies have open sourced drivers for some of their printers which you can freely from their website. OpenBSD has also done a lot of work reverse engineering broadcom chips to produce drivers for them, as well broadcom has a few open source drivers. Plus there's the fact that there is an open source alternative for just about everything.

Keep living in your little world though.

>what the fuck are you even trying to do
Trying to use Chrome.

Don't tell me that's not possible

Why the fuck would you need broadcom to use google chrome?

Interestingly an openbsd dev was working on a FOSS driver for broadcom chipsets using an existing GPL licensed "FOSS" driver as reference and they were basically given a C&D by the original dev.

"Free" software.

Because I kinda need my wifi to work

You don't need a Broadcom chipset to use Wi-Fi.

Well, not going to crack open my laptop and replace the wifi card just because my OS won't support it

Unless your laptop is some pile of shit it literally takes two minutes. You can also get USB adapters for $2, if that.

Nope, not going to break my warranty for that.

Inserting USB devices into USB ports does not void your warranty. I doubt upgrading your WLAN card does either.

Not going to occupy a USB port 24/7 JUST to use WiFi as well...

>I have hardware that doesn't support the OS
>I refuse to use hardware that does support the OS
How do you expect to use the OS then?

I really think you should just get a pico USB adapter since you're too much of a pussy to do it properly. How often do you actually have all of your USB ports used up anyway?

>2016
>BSD

>Current year
>Linux niggers still shitting on BSD
No better than winfags to be honest fham

>implying there's anything wrong with that

Wierd. All my OpenBSD systems will automount external drives just fine. Perhaps you're just retarded? Or maybe you've never actually used OpenBSD?

Ironically, this is the best time to use BSD, the hardware support right now is at least acceptable. You should've seen BSD back in the old days, when Wifi didn't work and hardware support was so bad.

More like windows users pretending to be Linux users. They're trying to get UNIX users to fight so they can take over. Classic divide and conquer tactics.

> You should've seen BSD back in the old days
> You should've seen computers back in the old days

ftfy

No I don't mean that old. Windows xp and mac os x had wifi at that time, while the BSD's were really lagging behind. A major flaw of BSD's in general is that development is slow, yes a lot of great projects stem from them (like zfs and openpgp), but it takes years or even decades sometimes for significant development to happen on BSD.

>major flaw of BSD
wep was a major flaw and I'm glad OpenBSD has the balls and foresight to "lag behind" on "significant" broken shit other OSes just want to have on the retail box feature list

OpenBSD is often a trendsetter so I don't know what you're talking about years or decades.

wtf i hate bsd now

Anyways, I want to install BSD on my Desktop as a workstation, will be doing some C and Python development and potentially interface with a private mySQL database.

Is there any reason to choose OpenBSD over FreeBSD? I see the security of OpenBSD is great, but I want more desktop environment choices than just Xfce.

Anyone running FreeBSD care to share some insight? What led you to choose FreeBSD?

Thanks for reading.

if you're doing C, openbsd has a lot of mitigations that could potentially prevent you from writing shitty programs

Come on, don't act like it doesn't take fucking ages for BSD to implement stuff. Don't get me wrong I like BSD, but it isn't without its flaws.

Is FreeBSD still vulnerable to like five known exploits in their update system?

i don't know what "stuff" is.

so much has come from BSD since the 80s. OpenBSD in particular has made significant contributions to computing in the past decade. they started the whole secure by default, public cvs checkouts. most shitposters here don't care but besides OpenSSH, they've done arc4random, time_t, CARP, pf, first for IPsec, early ipv6 adopter, rootless X, secured libraries, proactive vendor protesting for wireless chipset docs, implementing actual code for security research published in journals/papers, secured traditional UNIX services, standing up to vendors/blobs.

maybe this "stuff" isn't the same "stuff" you're talking about.

I love how openplacebotard can do nothing but lie and talk about literally nothing: the imagined contribution.
Let's take just one example:
>standing up to vendors/blobs.
Is that why there is no way to have a working openbsd installation without binary blobs included in the kernel itself? Really made me think.

>early ipv6 adopter
That doesn't really sound secure.

>Is that why there is no way to have a working openbsd installation without binary blobs included in the kernel itself?
can you be less obvious

>if I change the meaning of the word blob that means I have no blobs!
>I wiiiiiin!
Placebotards everybody!
libertybsd.net/

hi riley

are you still buttmad that theo told you to fuck off

libertybsd looks like shit

binary firmwares loaded by the OS to the device,not executing under the processor, is not a blob you neophyte. a blob is in kernel. stallman is wrong here.

Stallman acknowledges that there's a difference he just disagrees that the difference is insignificant. He does acknowledge that if the firmware were simply stored on a ROM chip that there wouldn't be anything technically wrong with it from his point of view he just believes that because the firmware can be modified that it should be modifiable by the user.

BSD/Linux are OS projects. There is a reason we are falling behind on Free BIOS. If you want free hardware then do something about it, but don't expect existing projects to stop what they're doing (for free) to replace all the firmwares your hardware manufacturer ships.

>If I pretend reality doesn't exist, then I wiiiiiiin!

top kek! anti-bsd fag btfo!

fsf.org/news/fsaward2004.html

Heh I found something interesting while digging through the mailing lists

>look at the previous winners list
Yes, theo absolute does belong on that list. I don't think anyone in the entire world could possibly disagree on that. A rare thing, truly.

bump

>Refuses to use obscure broken OS because unsupported by important hardware.
Hurr why don't you go out of your way to make it fit your needs pussy!

>spending two minutes swapping mPCIe cards or simply plugging in a USB adapter is going out of your way
top fucking kek

Opening a laptop to install a pci card or buying a usb WiFi adapter for a (laptop) is going out of your way yes.

Hardly. It's literally a 2 minute job involving 1 to ~4 screws unless you went full retard and bought some unserviceable piece of shit. And spending a dollar is going out of your way? Come on now.

Did you ever stop and think maybe it should be expected of the OS to support the card to begin with? Or is that too n00b¥

It should be expected of the OS to support the hardware that it does support well. It'd be pretty retarded to expect a fringe operating system developed by volunteers to support every piece of hardware everybody has. Not only does writing drivers take time but proper documentation is not always available to do so, and you're lucky if a company releases a Linux driver let alone ones for the BSDs. To expect such operating systems to support everything is asinine.

Omg I feel like I'm arguing with Patricia Krenwinkel, goodnight.

>To expect such operating systems to support everything is asinine.
I agree.
Expecting them to support almost all wireless cards is perfectly normal though.

Suck a dick, sperglord

Not at all.

...

Maybe you could try contributing to this volunteer driven project in some way. To support your obscure hardware the devs would need to own the hardware and there needs to be devs willing and capable of working on it. A lot of the hardware support comes from volunteers and donated hardware.

If only there were some open source tool they could port to use as a wrapper for the windows drivers...

XD

Yes

Why is BSD so good lads?

I've used Linux for almost a decade before finally taking the redbull

FreeBSD, OpenBSD: they're both literally perfect

Don't even bother. BSDfags are not right in the head. Just look at these threads. Then they wonder why everyone laughs at BSD. If you want to try a new OS, try fuchsia.

Nice try google shill

>OpenBSD devs will occasionally *remove* functionality to decrease attack surface
It's like linux/systemd in reverse.

I'm on FreeBSD on a thinkpad. I got everything work but sleep. I wish I can get sleep working.

>I tried systemctl start network-manager but I realised BSD uses some shitty init.
McFUCKING KLIL YOURSELF.

Anyone here listen to the Garbage podcast made by two OpenBSD developers?

Fine, go with sylable or haiku at least.

Troll detected

Which two? Because all their podcasts are garbage.

The podcast is called Garbage, senpai. Check it out: garbage.fm

Software is only as free as the hardware it runs on.

I'm not sure why exactly but even linux doesn't always support suspend and resume properly but OpenBSD does seem to oddly enough.

Because the OpenBSD devs are dogfooding their own OS.

That doesn't make any sense. Free software can run on non-free hardware.

Exactly why it makes sense. Sure it's wonderful and all that you've gone full tinfoil and installed nothing but free software but it doesn't mean jack shit if your hardware's backdoored.

>it doesn't mean jack shit if your hardware's backdoored.
Botnet = Software + Hardware
Botnet - Software = less Botnet

still backdoored

Still less backdoored
>My hardware is backdoored, might as well install even more malware to give even more people my private information

Still backdoored

Still less backdoored
>My hardware is backdoored, might as well install even more malware to give even more people my private information

still backdoored

Why does every single BSD thread look like a discussion for mentally challenged 11 year olds?

>I'm out of arguments so I'll just shitpost until he shuts up

Because there's a few shitposters that cannot handle the thought of a BSD thread not getting derailed.

Some guy(s) come to these threads to vent their frustration. I don't really get why there's barely enough people here to keep the threads alive half the time.

We need janitors to clean up all of the shitposting in this thread.

This is pretty neat thanks.

>OS developers who work for free should stop and cry about free hardware

it's almost as bad as telling Cred Forums not to play non-free games

even stallman is not this much of an asshole

if you want free hardware then do it

In convinced nobody even reports shitposting anymore.

do you even know the difference between kernel and userspace? just stop