>Software minimalist standards - Using a TUI when necessary - Only using a window manager - Using the terminal as a file manager - Package count must be under 900 (unless you use production software such as gimp or kdenlive etc etc, it's okay)
Acceptable GNU/Linux distributions that aren't bloat
If you guys really need to use a full on DE. Use KDE. It uses less ram than gnome.
Lucas Young
No, KDE's applets are retarded
Landon Anderson
don't install the applets then? just use the bare wm and de of KDE?
Thomas Allen
No, my autism needs applets for cpu load, ram load, disk load, and swap space. The way KDE's applets looks are retarded. Also, in the past KDE ALWAYS have some kind of annoying problem. I remember it was always asking some key... Fuck KDE
Nathaniel Torres
NIGGA ITS EITHER DWM(wm) OR KDE (de)
fuck gnome fuck xfce fuck lxde kde is the future of DE
Adam Richardson
I'm gonna see Stallman speak today. What questions should I ask if I get the chance?
Anthony Ward
Holy fuck. Well post pictures after.
ask him uhh, im not sure desu. Just take pics and post em on here user
Ryder Davis
oooooo Feb 17, 2018 02:00 PM Leicester, United Kingdom
>I meet to have applets but I'm too retarded to setup conky so I can't use this de
Jeremiah Hall
I do not post on Cred Forums. I have nothing against it in principle, but I am told a lot of the posts nowadays are right-wing bigotry which I condemn totally. I have occasionally answered questions for interviews for Cred Forums, but I have never posted anything there. Any posting there that says it is by me is by an impostor.
Carter Bennett
Das right I'll post pics
Angel Powell
>a properly built kernel would never be that big
Is it true if you compile the kernel and remove bloat, it would be small??
>thread is offtopic as fuck today >3dpd OP pic >arch in OP fuck off
David Martinez
>OS Arch >DE/WM i3 >Video/Music player mpv/none >Image viewer feh >File Manager Thunar+Thunar-daemon for automounting >Text Editor vim >Shell zsh >Web Browser Firefox >Terminal urxvt >Package Count 626
Matthew Hughes
Ask him if he ever smoked weed. I asked him in an email if he ever tried lsd. He said he didn't because he was worried of having a bad trip.
Jose Anderson
Also, scope him some lsd
Colton Myers
Ask him how did he start the Open Source movement.
Aaron Walker
theres no pic in op tho
Sebastian Kelly
>arch in op
FUCK OFF.
Ian Ortiz
installing it now
Cameron Price
>OP-pic deleted ANIMETARDS BTFO
Charles Sanchez
It wasn't an anime OP though. It was a 3d butt
Nathaniel Thompson
>OS Fedora net install >DE/WM dwm >Video/Music player mpv/cmus >Image viewer feh/zathura >File Manager spacefm >Text Editor vim >Shell bash >Web Browser firefox >Terminal urxvt >Package Count 1900-ish
Oliver Murphy
>Actually installing Gentoo from tty.
You won't last long.
Ryder Mitchell
stop posting whores
Jaxon Jones
lol someone deleted it
John Kelly
the mods did
Kevin Williams
>implying is less bloat than debian/devuan memelords on the lose.
Wyatt Ward
which picture was posted?
Ryder Bennett
arch is just shit
see >OS alpine >DE/WM i3 >Video/Music player mpv/mpd >Image viewer ristretto, will configure sxiv and see how i like it when i'm not lazy >File Manager thunar/mc, might switch from thunar to pcmanfm idk >Text Editor neovim >Shell bash >Web Browser seamonkey, waiting for bugs.alpinelinux.org/issues/8492 to be fixed before i try luakit >Terminal urxvt >Package Count who cares
Levi Kelly
>OS Manjaro >DE/WM i3 >Video/Music player mpv/clementine >Image viewer viewniot >File Manager pcmanfm >Text Editor vim/sublime >Shell zhs >Web Browser firefox/qute >Terminal urxvt >Package Count 998, who even cares
Jose Ortiz
Explain me what xbps-src do. It is the same as "configure && make && make install" or AUR? Can i use it for any git repository or only for Void ones? How it works?
why can't sxiv open pixmaps? feh, imagemagick, even mpv can open pixmaps
Jonathan Gray
>who cares >yfw trying so hard to be 'minimal' even your dick is shrink to the core, then you have a bloated package count and avoid to post it.
Kayden Williams
i don't try hard to be minimal, retard
Henry Reed
>Get recommendations to see if your system is bloat or not >posts his system setup >uses the super tryhard minimal wannabe distro as daily >afraid of package count >I don't wanna be minimal retard! >pls stahp you hurting my minimal feelings [email protected]
Nathan Lee
>>uses the super tryhard minimal wannabe distro as daily i use it because it avoids glibc and systemd, two things i've had issues with on other distros
you must be 18 to visit Cred Forums, child
Grayson Smith
>you must be 18 to visit Cred Forums, child My mom is carefully watching what I post and which boards I visit, don't worry about me, I am fine. >i use it because it avoids glibc and systemd, two things i've had issues with on other distros Then why posting your system to get recommendations if you don't care about being minimal? What a bloated breathing meme machine you are lmao.
Ethan Martin
why does it matter so much to you how many packages i have, anyway? you aren't using my system, are you?
bloat i use: gimp keepass2 seamonkey and chromium gui file manager gnucash networkmanager and nm-applet
you really do need to grow up
Jayden Allen
>Then why posting your system to get recommendations i'm not, i just wanted to post lol why do you think desktop/screenfetch/battlestation threads are such a big part of Cred Forums?
William Sullivan
Agreed, I don't think it counts as bloat if you actually like and use those things. Bloat to me is all the stuff you don't need and will never use.
Justin Clark
>being this mad and offended I didn't mean to hurt, user. It's fine. >why does it matter so much to you keeping a low package count (~600) is the first thing to consider when aiming for a minimal and optimized setup. That's why, if you don't want recommendations or get offended when pointed out, no reason to post it in the first place. Post a neofetch in one of those threads and you'll get much appreciation, since those places are flooded with arch/manjaroo/ubuntu normies.
Leo White
i'd switch from nm to connman, from thunar to pcmanfm, and maybe have alternatives for some other software but connman takes much more configuration for tethering and pcmanfm crashes a lot on musl systems
>keeping a low package count (~600) is the first thing to consider but it really isn't; each distro packages in its own way. that's why i say it's useless compared to other metrics such as RAM usage
Oliver Reyes
>keeping a low package count (~600) is the first thing to consider when aiming for a minimal and optimized setup Data on disk doesn't magically consume other resources just by being there. Do you really not know how to audit resource consumption? How about when it's appropriate to build something from source?
Jordan Cruz
guys can we talk about /mimimal/ kernals?
Dominic Wright
Go drink some bleach and shoot yourself in the mouth, you dumb fucking shit stain.
Jacob Fisher
seL4 when?
Cooper White
>keeping a low package count (~600) is the first thing to consider when aiming for a minimal and optimized setup I reach the conclusion that is almost impossible to me to have a low package count. Some useful software brings in too many packages and I'd say they don't influence the minimalism of the system that much. If you install pandoc and latex you end up bringing in >200 packages just for two softwares; and they are overall minimal since 1) there is not a reasonable replacement for them 2) their resource consumption affect pretty much only the disk space since when you run them, they finish their job in a couple of seconds at most
The first thing to consider when aiming for a minimal system is choosing carefully your daemons and the software you run consistently on your system (eg. windows manager and web browser). Of course, you might want to trade some minimalism with usability: I do not want to make compromises when it comes to my text editors (emacs) and web browsers (firefox). I don't care if they are bloated, I do not want a system without them.
Colton Hill
no i mean, like i heard that when you compile your own custom kernal it won't be that big of a size. When you use prebuilt kernals its like 300mb or some shit
Thomas Robinson
see in the OP - Package count must be under 900 (unless you use production software such as gimp or kdenlive etc etc, it's okay)
If you install libre office, kirta, gimp, blender, obs-studio etc etc. Your package count will be higher but its packages you NEED for work so its okay. But if your package count surpasses 2000. That shit is bloat and you need to reinstall your distro.
Also different distros package count is different.
Nolan Russell
It's 150-200MB with a prebuilt kernel and (realistically) less than 80MB if you build your own kernel. You can make it as small as you want, but it's not really worth it. If the kernel is too minimal you might end up with problems when you connect external devices. You want to disable a lot of things, but you have to pay attention to not disable too much stuff. Especially if we are talking about a personal computer, where some bloat is affordable, for a single board or for a server you might do differently.
Also, it's not as easy as it sounds. The kernel has many options and you have to spend time to understand what they are and to figure out if you can safely disable them.
Carson Long
you just have to select only those things that your computer needs instead of using the distro kernel that has everything enabled by default.
Austin Peterson
>see in the OP In my opinion OP is wrong. Just to make an example: >fonts: ~200 packages >pandoc: ~120 packages >latex: I don't remember but let's say ~80 packages Does having many fonts makes your system bloated? I don't think so. Are pandoc and latex bloated? Maybe yes, but they are almost essential (as in "not replaceable") for many users.
Now, if you want to be /minimal/ you have to manage to build your system with at most 500 packages. That's just because these 2 software and a bunch of ttf files stole you almost half of the "package count limit" for a Cred Forums-approved minimal system. Isn't it unfair?
Meanwhile the archlinux user install ttf-ms-win10 and with just one package brings in ~120 fonts.
Blake Ward
fonts aren't fucking software..Why would you have that many fucking fonts?
Joshua Martin
No, they are just files. It's like asking why you have so many anime pictures on your hard drive. Except fonts are actually useful.
Carter Evans
to use them
Ryder Green
if anyone disagrees with the package count must be lower than 900 has probably over 1000 packages on their gnu/linux system. Your shit is bloat, fix it
Nicholas Ortiz
don't tell me to do what you're dreaming to. minimal unemployed wannabe, lmao. Good luck defining your system 'minimal' with 1600 packages installed, bloated waste of oxygen. >b-but i have i3 a-and it only uses 3mb of ram at boot! the best part of you surely ended up down your mother's legs.
Juan Green
>fonts aren't fucking software They comes with packages tho, o they increase the package count. It's one package per font on some distro.
William Taylor
why not?
Noah Martin
and this meme works too
Josiah Morgan
thats right. dwm is the best wm ever.
just change your shell and terminal
Andrew Collins
>just change your shell I wonder who's behind this post...
Camden Richardson
Someone who probably thinks he should use mskh? NEWSFLASH: Bash and Zsh aren't the only two shells! Also, I fail to see how Zsh is feminine.
Jeremiah Cox
What are the main pro/cons between bash, ksh, csh, tcsh, dash and the other somewhat minimal shells? I doubt it's worth to switch from bash to something else, but I'd like to be proven wrong.
Landon Scott
>OS Void Linux
>DE/WM Is
>Video/Music player mpv/mpd+ncmpcpp
>Image viewer feh
>File Manager ranger
>Text Editor vim
>Shell bash
>Web Browser qutebrowser
>Terminal urxvt
>Package Count ~600
Jason Adams
>NEWSFLASH: Bash and Zsh aren't the only two shells! Just the only two worth using. I would've let you argue fish. Not having good tab completion is pretty damning in current year. Nobody cares how light or fast their shell is as long as it's not firing up a heap manage bytecode runtime. > Also, I fail to see how Zsh is feminine. You don't see anything gay about front end web dev, Mac Books, and fake Star Trek prompts? How do you feel about Boston terriers and show tunes?
Parker Cruz
idk to be fucking honest. I just know its minimal and suckless suggests it
dash is too fucking minimal mksh is the sweet spot minimal i heard ash is pretty good too, i have to try it soon.
Jason Parker
whats a browser that at least lets me post here and does not depend on bloat like dbus gtk or qt? links was the best i could find but it cant load the captcha.
Jose Walker
>You don't see anything gay about front end web dev It's bloated shite, but no. >Mac Books To me, Macbooks are the best option for, "I can't use GNU/Linux for some reasons, but I don't want to touch Windows with a 10-foot pole". Granted, i'd prefer something like a thinkpad (and even used to own one as a kid) running some meme distro, but sadly that's not practical for me right now. >Star Trek prompts What are you referring to? >How do you feel about Boston terriers C U T E >show tunes Not really my thing.
Carter Johnson
>Not having good tab completion is pretty damning in current year. I don't know how much better the other "more powerful" shells are, but I think bash is doing just fine. pic related.
>idk to be fucking honest. I just know its minimal and suckless suggests it I was hoping for more technical benefits.
David Richardson
ash (or at least busybox ash) is kinda in between mksh and dash from my experience. It has full tab completion and history, but there's a little quirk with the type of tab completion where it shows the whole directory contents when you press the tab a bunch of times. They don't seem to get split into separate columns. It's also lightning fast and incredibly light.
bash is the default one for most distros. I think we all know how its tab completion works. No need to explain that.
mksh is pretty much the same as bash in this regard from my experience. I switched to it full time and haven't noticed a difference. only it's speedier and uses less wam.
the bigger shells, from what I can tell, do really weird stuff with the tab completion and whatnot. Zsh can have its tab completion set up so that you can use the arrow keys to navigate through your options like a menu. Ion puts greyed out text to the right of what you have typed that predicts what it thinks you wanted to type, much like a search engine might. Fish I think does some other crazy shit. The downside of using these shells is that they're much heavier than the rest.
Leo Barnes
Bad OP
Isaiah Jenkins
how
John Gutierrez
>bash is the default one for most distros. I think we all know how its tab completion works. No need to explain that. My point was (trying) to show that it can do different things since you can customize it a little. For example if you use "\e[1;5B": menu-complete "\e[1;5A": menu-complete-backward
You can navigate trough arguments with ctrl+up/down. Surely not quite as powerful as zsh and fish, but it makes you think if it's really worth to change your shell. I don't think many people spend time on their bashrc, but they should give it a check.
Samuel Perez
It's the old OP, which has systemd distros. The last thread completely got rid of those, includes links to helpful pastebins, and gets rid of the stupid package count thing.
Kevin Reyes
and, most importantly, it was made by faggy op.
Jayden Perez
It you hate systemd that much use gentoo or open bsd.
alpine, gentoo, void doesn't use systemd. They are popular choices for a non-systemd distro
arch and debian are just really popular and well documentated in general.
That uwu faggot added meme distros and hijacked the thread like 4 times
Alexander Roberts
This, long live faggy OP
Mason Martinez
Aren't we one community? Why the butthurt.
Logan Edwards
Thread title is an oxymoron. GNU can not be minimalist.
Charles Martinez
Am I allowed to hug you or does it hurt your feelings?
Nicholas Rodriguez
it's hell of a lot more minimal and customizable than windows or macOS.
Ryan Brooks
macOS uses BSD programs, so in some parts it could be more minimal
Brandon Davis
Not only, it also uses many pretty outdated GNU parts because faggy license paranoia.
Hunter Davis
Yeah, but it's also proprietary pig disgusting tho.
Justin Price
So just use BSD.
Lincoln Murphy
>commercial operating system is minimal no
Xavier Price
This thread is about GNU/Linux.
Isaac Wood
I'm the one who runs gentoo with systemd. I do not hate systemd, nor archlinux or debian. I just think that in a thread about minimalism these distro should not be in the OP. If they don't split packages that much and if they comes with systemd they are not minimal. If you wanna use it that's fine, but in a thread where we discuss about minimalism I'd rather have a meme distro than a senseless advice. Especially in the open post.
We are here to discuss minimalism, it's not a circlejerk of people who uses minimal everything. Do you use archlinux, emacs and firefox. Okay pal, but don't tell me they are minimal. They are not!
Brayden Jenkins
Hey Cred Forums, what's the best lightweight and user-friendly distro for daily use?
Cameron Barnes
>I'm the one who runs gentoo with systemd.
>knows gentoo is very very customizable down to the kernel >still uses systemd wew
Leo Martinez
lubuntu
Connor Clark
it's actually harder to install it with systemd than openrc.
Josiah Sanders
yea but systemd is bloat
Levi Cox
Of course it is, and it shouldn't be in the open post.
Gentoo should be in the OP, but debian and archlinux should not be there. And the package count thing means fuck all and should not be mentioned in the OP either. The other one was better made. The fact that I chose to use it on gentoo it's completely irrelevant.
Carter Hill
This
John Jenkins
package count is everything you fucking bloated faggot fuck
Nicholas Reyes
Newfag
Logan Lewis
Hi guise!
Brayden Sanders
where do you find these images?
Brayden Howard
rofi is pretty nice,
Cooper Gomez
...
Jeremiah Stewart
I find them using image search, silly!
Tyler Long
what search terms do you use
Robert Clark
I only know about zsh and of course bash. Bash is quite fine, often it's functionality and flow is perfect for most people. However, if you need to do more customization, need more control, and need to have more powerful scripting capabilites, then zsh is superior
Jason Rivera
>packages all of gnome in one package it is not bloat at all!
Matthew Price
This. And different distros package things in different ways. Debian splits packages far more than something like Arch. shota Give mksh a try.
Noah Cruz
>using gnome spotted the bloated fag
Connor Wright
Dude you just missed the point. Of course GNOME is bloated! But according to you, package count is everything, so clearly if a distro packaged all of GNOME into one package, it would be totally /minimal/. right? (hint: the answer is no)
Robert Johnson
no you faggot, just use debian net installer. holy fuck
Jack Jones
I don't think you understand the point he's trying to make.
Ryder Harris
I think he's intentionally not understanding. Or at least I hope so.
once again the power of uwu prevails
Logan Edwards
Is Ruby minimal Cred Forums?
Jacob Gonzalez
I've done this multiple times it's not that hard
Brandon Garcia
How long did it take you to configure the kernal? was it hard?
Wyatt Hughes
I think he is asking why you choose to do that
Adrian Myers
Guys is tor minimal?
Adam White
it's easy as fuck unless you're trying to trim it down, then you have to really research what each option does if you need tor, use it. this is a dumb question
Eli Rivera
>~600 is 'ponysay' included? You'll get banned from the repos otherwise.
Leo Anderson
wow you caught me
Justin Martinez
>takes 12 hours to unistall packages and lower the count >probably broke his system doing so >disk: vaporeon >disk: clefairy >you must be 18 to post on Cred Forums, child really makes you think.
Jordan Wood
>complaining about pokémon on an anime website >making up excuses because he fell for the package count meme
Leo Nguyen
>- Package count must be under 900 (unless you use production software such as gimp or kdenlive etc etc, it's okay) >under 900 >unless you actually use your computer
Logan Torres
real minimalfags should not even be able to post here. installing something like firefox bumps your package count with 43
Colton Morales
I choose systemd mainly because it's faster and I already used it. It's my only pc and I don't know how good openrc is. Maybe some software doesn't support it and shit like that and I wouldn't format if it's not really necessary. For the foreseeable future systemd will be a required dependency for more and more software and I wouldn't take the risk of replacing without a damn good reason to. Pottering being a retard and /bloat/ is not enough.
I'm also using openssl at the moment, but that's just because I didn't had the time to form my own opinion about libressl back then. Now I'm thinking to unmerge openssl and switch to libressl. It seems slower for now, but I do like the idea behind it... and when it's much slower, it looks like it is for good reasons (eg. zeroing the memory). Is there a libressl user willing to give me their feedback about it?
Alexander Williams
I think if you are using Gentoo you really don't have to worry about Systemd being a mandatory dependency considering almost all Gentoo users use OpenRC
Aaron Price
>anime website >so I can name my drives as 10yo anime characters and get away with it reboot your system and show us how much you fucked up by reducing the pkg count, Ash.
Landon Parker
gotta love how 'minimal pony lover distro' aka void linux shows user password in cleartext during installation.
John Howard
Hello
Did you know there is a vim mode for bash through readline? Now you know
Jace Cruz
its slowly becoming bloated but is still much better than ubuntu that can easily have 3000 packages.
Jackson Morris
reminder to use MUSL also anime website
Noah Thompson
D E P R E C I A T E D From Void wiki: >Some programs (mostly graphical applications) will work incorrectly, or segfault when run under musl. This may be due to programs expecting some glibc-specific behavior. >Also, some programs that rely on glibc-specific behavior cannot or at least have not been patched yet. Clearly, Musl is incomplete. It needs to implement this critical functionality that is needed for programs to work. In its current state, it is unfinished.
Juan Brooks
Do you guys kebindings more than the mouse for managing windows? I am particularly fond of Ratpoison and cant understand how is nobody else mentioning this tiling wm so my theory is not everyone is use to drop the mouse
Robert Hall
dumb gnuposter
Connor Gray
its probably mostly meant for embedded shit and those wont have heavy gui software like desktops usually have.
Nathan Harris
in i3 i use a fair combination of the mouse and keyboard. it just depends on what my hands are closer to
Jack James
why would you want to use i3 instead of dwm?
Caleb Young
no reason for me to switch, i'm familiar with i3 and i like having an actual config file rather than recompiling
Charles Kelly
also specific differences between the two: - i3 chose XCB over Xlib for simplicity and speed - i3's workspaces are dynamic copared to dwm's which are hardcoded in - i3 has manual tiling configuration while dwm has preset
i haven't used dwm and maybe there's a way to change most of its behaviour, but i3 "just works" and i have it set up how i like
Daniel Hernandez
My main machine is OSX, but soon I will be receiving the following machine for personal use:
Pixelbook i7 16GB RAM 512GB SSD
I plan on partitioning it so I can boot into GalliumOS.
While in GalliumOS I plan on doing the following on it:
- Setting up local LAMP and MEAN stack environments / servers for back and front-end development
- Light to moderate coding
- Using Git to commit any code
- Using ssh to tunnel into servers
- Heavily using the terminal. Currently use ZSH on OSX.
- Using FTP
- Heavy email usage where I would prefer to use a dedicated email client. Bonus if it works well with Exchange servers
- Chatting on Slack on multiple channels
- Chatting on Skype
- Opening up or creating Word or Excel docs
- Taking notes. I currently use Evernote
- Web browsing. I use Chrome currently because of work and some of the extensions it offers.
- Rare image manipulation. Like resizing or cropping an image, or reducing file size.
What do you recommend for each case?
I do opt for GUIs if the application is designed well enough. For example on OSX I just use Tower for Git because it's god tier.
Asher Wright
Use sftp instead of ftp, also look for alternative applications for everything, cut the bloat
James Rodriguez
>those newlines
anyway i would suggest LEMP over LAMP; nginx is really nice and handles concurrent connections more efficiently. also i'd prefer perl over php personally, just because perl doesn't look like puke >Using FTP sftp or scp like said, if you can avoid it. it's more secure >Chatting on Slack on multiple channels use an irc client and the relay if the server allows you, assuming you want to avoid slack's web UI. better yet, convince everyone that slack is dog shit and migrate to irc >Chatting on Skype if you don't use voice, try bitlbee. try convincing everyone to use irc or mumble >Opening up or creating Word or Excel docs libreoffice >Taking notes. I currently use Evernote literally a text editor or a physical notebook/notepad >Web browsing. I use Chrome currently chromium >Rare image manipulation. Like resizing or cropping an image, or reducing file size. either gimp or imagemagick
Easton Rodriguez
>now install crux on kvm >mouse not works
Are you fucking kidding me?
Connor Mitchell
>Light to moderate coding Vim >Using Git to commit any code command-line git >Using ssh to tunnel into servers standard ssh command. >Heavily using the terminal. Currently use ZSH on OSX. consider using mksh as shell, and either rxvt-unicode or Suckless St as the terminal >Using FTP I personally use ncftp, as it works much better overall than the standard client. Unless you meant server-side in which case use vsftpd, as it's the standard one used by RHEL (I think they said it's the only one they'll package) >Heavy email usage where I would prefer to use a dedicated email client. Bonus if it works well with Exchange servers No clue about exchange, but mutt is a nice lightweight terminal-based email client. highly configurable.
Josiah Murphy
How well does qutebrowser handle 30+ tabs?
Xavier Richardson
Thank you
Zachary Morales
idk but i can't even handle 1 without freezing what ever i3 workspace it's on for me
Josiah Thomas
Not near as well as Firefox. WebKit browsers in general are only minimal if you never open more than about 4.
Colton Lewis
Thats why crux is a shitty fuckin distro no one knows about
Cooper Torres
>connman >Intel has created a new network management and configuration system for Linux called ConnMan >Intel Not trying to poison the well, but that well is pretty damn poisonous.
Kayden Morgan
why would anyone even need a network manager program? if wired then configure a static ip and for wireless theres iw or wpa supplicant
Wyatt Perez
intel created it? i use usb tethering and bluetooth PAN
Nathan Peterson
>wpa supplicant it looks too hard the documentations from various distros don't seem consistent as to what you need to do to set it up and connect to wifi.
Joshua Nguyen
I used to be like you. Then i installed debian(net iso). They had the best documentation for my wireless driver(wiki.debian.org/wl). It was a matter of copy and pasting, then changing 2 lines in a config file. It's really not hard.
But anyways i use ethernet since wireless is bloat. Ethernet is the final minimal stage
