STEM is such a joke

I have no idea why you people act like making 70k a year post grad is some bourgeoisie tier. There are other jobs that pay way more.
If you love science or computers, that is another story, but accounting, finance, medical, veterinary, dental and law are all much easier and much better paying - not to mention you won't be competing against either turbonerds that do open source for fun or H1B slaves.
Heck, even trades will give you a better ROI than some stupid STEM degree!

>70k a year
I'm making 3x that with my CS degree.

>Copying and pasting or medical school that takes ten years to complete are better options
Kys

>94k
>89k
>80k
>79k

Lol these jobs get you like 45k (usd) max here in germany.
Why are those jobs so overpayed in murrica right now?

you sound angry, do you need a juice box?

...

I'll be retired by the time medfags at my age finally finish residency and pay off their debt. Kek.

>tfw fell for the trades meme
My only fear is 3D printers. As long as they don't suddenly become more than a meme for prototyping and hobbyists, I'll pretty much always have solid, middle class wage opportunities wherever I go, and that's just for what I currently do. There's tons of management positions I could get into later on.

It says median pay, not average. There's some engineers that make $200k a year because reasons just like there's plenty that make $40k.

>70k a year post grad is some bourgeoisie tier
That's average starting salary m8. If you get into some meme tech company straight out of college, you can earn double that with RSUs, signing bonuses, and other benefits.

Go drink some bleach and shoot yourself in the mouth, you dumb fucking shit stain.

>That's average starting salary m8.
Do they not teach what fucking median means in school anymore?

you can get a job as a machinist and or an electrician and get paid 70k.

>debt
What are you talking about, user? Is education not free where you live?

>STEM is such a joke. I have no idea why you people act like making 70k a year post grad is some bourgeoisie tier?

There arent other options. Robots are replacing humans in no-Stem jobs and you are forced to study Stem if you want survive the next decade. If you dont are engineer you are obsolete.

>List of public corporations by market capitalization
>#1 - Apple
>#2 - Alphabet
>#3 - Microsoft
>#4 - Amazon
>#8 - Facebook
>All tech companies started in the US

>machinist
>70k
Only if
>you're at a union shop for 5+ years. Enjoy your union bullshit
>you're a master machinist with 40 years in the trade
>you work 60+ hours a week and make it off of overtime
The guys who make 70k are the foremans and such.

t. Machinist

yeah, you could just become a bankster and gamble with peoples money while making millions.

Easier means more people are applying for those positions, dimwit.

>"free"
How much did you pay in taxes last year Achmed?

>no ged
>works as a machinst like 2-3 year tops working on gears for b-2 or some other sekrit shit.
>15 years of none machinist work as a mechanic.
>become a machinist again get payed 70k

law wont go full robot, but it may go full robot to speed the bullshit up and then lawers are left to sift the data to see if any factor was missing, and a judge would hand out the punishment, at least in big corporate lawsuits.

>muh anecdotal evidence
It's very, very far from the norm for a normal machinist to make 70k a year without either working fucktons of overtime or being at a union shop with heavy yearly raises. I know a couple guys that make 70k+ as "machinists" but they're salary and have other responsibilities besides machining parts.

>politics and international relations
>high risk of automation
This chart accounting for Skynet or something?

I could really see them automating all the small claims garbage and petty shit people sue each other over, maybe have a judge just check the verdict to see if it's about right and not ridiculous.

In Canada, the military will take almost any engineer starting at 70k or more per year plus a signing bonus. The raises come quickly and once you've finished training, the job is easy. If you join the military as an engineer while in school, they'll pay your tuition, your rent, buy your books, and pay you a salary of at least 40k per year while you're in school.

So I mean, those stats say median, but if the military in Canada is starting people as supposed median levels, you're probably misinterpreting those stats. If that's is the case, which is very likely is, then what that user said is accurate; if you don't suck dick (there are shitty engineers too) or you know someone, you can easily get a job that pays much more than 70k.

>inb4 Canadian dollar is shit
The numbers I cited are from nearly ten years ago when the Canadian dollar was near parity with USD.

I'll still pay fewer in taxes throughout the course of my life than you will pay just in tuition plus interest on your student loans just for undergrad, Cletus.

Congrats on defending the kike banking system that enslaves you through debt though.

So you earn jack shit, and will be doomed to be a wage slave your entire life? I paid off my loans my first year working and will have enough to retire on after 10. And the kike banking system is paying for the sweet dividends I'm getting.

So you're wealthy? No wonder you oppose socializing education then.

Because America has no functional social services, unlike your country.

So back when Harper was PM and the Conservative Party was in control. Does Justin Castro have the same boner for the military or have those resources been reallocated to teaching kindergartners about transexuality?

Reminder.

Absolutely atrocious font rendering.

I don't know and I don't care. The salary and benefits the military has to offer to get engineers isn't dictated by their budget, it's dictated by the market.

These people get sued to oblivion also

Nonsense. The military can downsize or bring in lesser quality engineers. Keeping pace with the top of the market is in no way guaranteed.

Just don't make mistakes, faggot.

Engineers fresh out of school are not top of the market.

They're not overpaid, just 50% of your income goes for niggers, old people, and the jews.

>medical
>veterinary
>dental
defeats your point
Those are STEM programs.

Malpractice insurance is a thing, so unless they've deliberately killed, maimed, or taken advantage of a patient under their care they're financially covered. I'd say most of the liability is absorbed by the facility they're working at, though. This is because most of what happens is environmental, like a scalpel that wasn't sterilized properly by the facility, or a post-op room that was contaminated, a gurney with blood on it. Any time you go in for surgery you sign a paper that basically dissolves all your legal capacity against them anyways. They leave you with a really narrow margin of advance, basically.

>law wont go full robot
This. Based jury system.

psssh...nothin personnel...kid...

When I worked for an AmLaw 100 firm, we automated away the need for most contract lawyers and some associates. The type of work partners were involved in wasn't effected much other than getting things like discovery done faster. Still, today's associates are tomorrow's partners. Destroy the pipeline and years down the road the whole industry might suffer.

STEM has been more than just a meme for the entirety of human civilization. If you know how the world works on a physical level, you're several tiers above plebs who can't even tell you the reason why their farts smell.

>medical
>much easier
That option encroaches insanely on your personal life.
Also it is STEM.

That's because you are paid in rupees

I'm paid in United States Dollars.

>medical, veterinary, dental
those are icky tho

I can't imagine drilling or sawing some guys gums

Isn't medicine STEM?

>medicine
>not STEM
wew

You ain't making that off a CS degree. I could believe it if it were science or engineering, but not in CS.
Unless you are extremely lucky, or are into management.

Am I supposed to care about salary ? Who cares ?
To me $70k is the same as $500k.
They're both exorbitant sums way over what I need or even want . I can't even imagine what I'd buy. All of the money would just rot in a bank

>medical
>he thinks this is not STEM
Top meme OP.

Enjoy being a wage slave until you're 70.

What else would I do?
Even if I had no job I couldn't burn that money
What the fuck do you people buy ?
I lived on $800 last year

It's really sad how most people today can't imagine life without slaving away 40 hours a day for Mr. Shekelstein.

I enjoy my work and it gives me ample time for leisure .

I think it's sadder your entire existence revolves around $$$$$.

Yes, good goy!

I'm objectively not a goy

well my fucking degree is going to be useless when i get it in a year

or not idk.

>finances(accounting) not ste(M)
>Medical not (S)tem
Fucking brainlet

This is the real reason you dislike STEM lol

>finances is math
Oh man I cringed hard

lel I know right you're only working with numbers.
Fucking retard.
:^)

Median over a large area and demographic (ie a country) is as accurate as a blind man projectile shitting into your mouth.

People in sv must earn well over that, while people in lower-end cities may earn less.

In other words, this thread is another pseudoscience pile of garbage, like all the other Cred Forums invasion threads

wtf? 200K a year to stick your hand in some dudes mouth. Sign me up

yeah, medical is essentially biological engineering. applied biology.

Sounds gay.

>4 year degree in CS, slacking off and coding in spare time
>12 year med school degree, sacrificing all semblance of social life as you cram information and go into massive debt that will take a decade to pay off
>same pay
LOL

I think comp sci is easier (at least for me) than any of the other careers you listed, and $86k/year is enough to buy a house and also invest a bit to retire in my 40s. Obviously move into management after a few years for more dollars.

Probably hurts a bit less than getting a dick up your ass

>To me $70k is the same as $500k.
$70k is more like $40k take-home monies in burgerland...

>he goes into careers for the pay

lmao have fun with your miserable life when you realize money doesn't make the grind worth it

What are you smoking? CS/programming jobs pay WAY more than any engineering job right now.

I was a professional civil engineer, and I make as much money as an INTERN developer while doing my masters in CS.

Truth is you only need a handful of intelligent and educated computer scientists in a project for QA and project management. The rest are code monkeys that barely have to think. Why do you think code bootcamp hires are becoming so popular? Especially in places like Silicon Valley, they are cheaper then H1Bs now. Why pay some guy with a CS degree $100k+/year to work as a code monkey when you can get some fat pink haired woman to do it for $40k/year and they'll be happy about it because they used to serve coffee at Starbucks for $11/hr.

No that's in Yuropoor that you're thinking of. $70k will be around $55k take home in the U.S.

I live with 595.55$/month. The NEET life is difficult.

Can confirm. Now that pajeets cost min $90,000 company has started to recruit fat pinkies. Also get to fill that diversity quota.

>accounting, finance, medical, veterinary, dental and law
Accounting and finance are both under math. Medicine, dental, and vet are under science. The only one from that list that is not STEM is law.

STEM is the best. All other disciplines are inferior. Some non-STEM jobs are decent, some are good, but all of non-STEM is inferior to STEM.

This, from what I've read the law industry is already in dire straits because so many American firms are outsourcing basic contract work to Pajeets in India.

Who the fuck cares.

I attend University and majored in Mathematics because I wanted to receive a well rounded education, and that's what I got. I knew the structure of the library(s) better than most of the student workers, and I probably checked out more books than the entirety of the posters in this thread. I don't even doubt that. If I could I'd go back to University and get a degree in each and everything.

My current career does not pay well, but I love it and it has its own specific perks. You can go on and on about your salaries, but you just sound insecure and desperate for a metric to measure yourself to others. Sort your shit out.

>If I could I'd go back to University and get a degree in each and everything.
But you can't because your job pays shit and you'll be stuck working until you're 70. Wahh wahh I guess money isn't everything.

Well thankfully my current job requires four days a week, has tons of time off in the Winter, and involves skills that are directly applicable to self-reliance.

So yeah basically I do that on my free time anyway.

>free time
If you had money all time would be free time. This cognitive dissonance is amazing.

Accounting you have to work for peanuts when you graduate before you become properly certified, there are zero jobs in law anywhere and medical and veterinary are arguably harder.

Sure. That's one way to go about things. I never said it wasn't. I'm not the one needlessly attacking arbitrary ways of life. There's no cognitive dissonance because I'm not in issue with either of our lives. You're the one with the problem.

All I am saying is I'm very satisfied with my life, my work creates a direct tangible product that people need, and my future is not any less bright than yours. Hell, I even have enough current skills that I could self teach on my free time to get to a better, high paying career smoothly if I so wanted.

STEM is most certainly a meme. A STEM job carries less social stigma than the shit tier bottom barrel jobs the rest of the peasants must deal with, but just barely. The difference between $40k and $500k is fucking nothing compared to the numbers the truly wealthy deal with. You might think a doctor is making bank at $500k but they are a fucking parasite living on a peasant relative to the ruling class. While you park your expensive overpriced middle class sedan in your white picket fence mcmansion you must realize that in by working for such you facilitated the existence of those of much greater sophistication, wealth, and power than you could ever possibly imagine.

Have you ever considered people in STEM:

(1) like what they do
(2) make contributions to society

Sure, this isn't exlusive to STEM by any means, but I feel bad for you that you have this sort of mentality.

Also "x is a meme" is eo ipso always a true statement by most standard definitions.

>studying STEM without going into academia

fucking normie scum ruining STEM. Go study business or some shit. Stop ruining science with greed.

This.

STEM Isn't about money. If you think otherwise, you don't belong in STEM.

>those of much greater sophistication, wealth, and power than you could ever possibly imagine
How does it feel to actually be a good goy?

>dental
>much easier
You have a study program equivalent and parallel to medicine 3 years into university anion.
That is anything but easy.

First off, you don't go into STEM because you're trying to get rich. You do it so you can work a fulfilling job that is relevant to your interests.
I'd rather make $70k designing shit or researching, than make $90k slaving away in a North Dakota oil field.

More importantly, $70k will enable you to live very comfortably in all but the highest COL areas. Right now, as a young single man, I make about $50k, and live like I earn $30k. I don't ever feel like I'm depriving myself, because I set aside enough money to do the things I enjoy.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't pick a job just because it pays big. I personally don't think it's worth it to work a passionless job just so you can drive a fancier car and buy more consumer garbage.

>Accounting
Automation is going to cuck that career field soon.

>Finance
Acceptable.

> medical, veterinary, dental and law are all much easier
What. All of those are like 8 years of school, and nowadays you're not even guaranteed to earn that much as a lawyer.

If you want to make money without having to do the hard thinky thing, go into management. From there, it's just honing your people skills.

>Heck, even trades will give you a better ROI than some stupid STEM degree!
Sure, you'll make something like $45k right out of high school, but by the time you're 40 your body will be shot and you'll be making $55k. Your white-collar STEM buddy from high school will be in fine health, and probably making more than $80k.

The hospital will throw your ass under the bus at the first opportunity. That's why everyone in the medical field has their own malpractice insurance as well.

KEEP Cred Forums IN Cred Forums

>he made a jew joke REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>t. nigger

>Sour Grapes: The Post

This thread has taught me that basically literally everything sucks

The difference is that Computers Programmers are the code monkeys and Software Developers are javascript developers.

There's no difference. A lot of job titles and descriptions are just changing to say developer instead of programmers. It's an aesthetic thing. If you know how to write code somewhat decently you're safe.

...

>I have no idea why you people act like making 70k a year post grad is some bourgeoisie tier.
I have no idea why you think that I went this route because I need money.

>70k a year post grad is some bourgeoisie tier.
Because in the college graduate age group that's like 96% percentile salary. You're in the top 5% for your age (early to mid 20s)

Healthcare used to be the field to go into but now without the obama mandate in effect it's basically a dead man walking now. Only thing that might could save it is single payer but with repubs in the white house hell will freeze over before that happens.

Don't be racist.

After 3 years I get 100k a year working at most 40 hours a week. Can work whenever I want and from where I want.

Friend gets 150k CHF as a lawyer.
He works 12-3 hours a day. Also on Saturdays. Lunch and Dinners with clients are not included in this number.

Fuck all management, lawyer, doctors, etc. jobs. They all require doing overtime constantly. I don't live to work, but work to live.

>get CS degree
>only make 38k
>anywhere that pays more tells me I don't have enough experience

I really don't understand this shit

>I have no idea why you people act like making 70k a year post grad is some bourgeoisie tier
This is more than enough to live comfortably if 1) you don't have crushing debt and 2) you're not living in a meme-tier COL area like SV or NYC.

Don't let Cred Forums dictate your world views user.

>tfw pseudo stem meme degree with intra domain focus
My resume is a corporate magnet. So many good jobs that require multidomain knowledge. It's literally, churn out a few lines of code, hold some non technical user's hand for a while. Rinse and repeat. Sys. integration is where it's at as opposed to being a code monkey pushing out lines endlessly or being an "engineer" slaving over complicated work for an underpaid salary because there's a line of people ready to replace you.
Imo, best thing you can do is find the right niche where you will be difficult to replace due to the amount of company specific training and knowledge needed for a new hire in your position. After that, sit back and enjoy without the need to sweat over job security.

>Fuck all management, lawyer, doctors, etc. jobs. They all require doing overtime constantly. I don't live to work, but work to live.
It's the same with shitty startups. These are the ones who want "passionate" developers who are willing to spend all their free time on projects for entry level wage.

Not really. Working for a startup is like sharing the risk of starting one. The entire point of working at one is for the promise of stake in the company and the chance of making it big-time. Yes it's a risk but the payoff could be big, that's the point. Those other jobs don't offer that.

do you live in switzerland too?

Yes

is the ~25% overall tax actually a thing over there? basically the lowest in western europe right?

I literally filled out my tax statement yesterday. With all deductions I reached a taxable invome of 70k. I'll have to pay around 13-14k (depends a bit on where you live and I live at a place very taxes are much higher than in other places of the country).

Switzerland is not part of the EU, that's why it's lower. E.g, tax on food is 8% not like the 20 in germany. However, everything is still pretty expensive.

>Being a grown adult.
>Having a "job".

You hamster-ass niggers make me sick. I opened a small restaurant and make more than the equivalent of 80k working like 2 hours a day. Except I live in a 3rd world country so I live with more luxury than if I was earning 500k in Burgerland or Eurghanistan.

Enjoy your dead end jobs and your lack of local 16 year old jailbait girls that are easily impressed by you just owning a business, house and cars before 30 and they believe they have a chance of escaping poverty with their teen pussies.

Save money, move out of there and don't end up being a 45 years old engineer with 2 shit kids and a bitch wife that is obviously getting dicked by local Tyrones while you are at your job.

>and don't end up being a 45 years old engineer with 2 shit kids and a bitch wife that is obviously getting dicked by local Tyrones while you are at your job.

Like that would ever happen to anybody here.

>ROAD
all the easy high paying jobs are crazy competitive
you'll probably end up working at a hospital for half that while still retaining the debt

Engineering is just the extension of a craft.
Calling it stupid is meaningless.
The line between science and engineering is too vague, as engineers do research and researchers do engineering.
Whether there is money enough to pay for research in the future is hard to predict and the field where there is money changes very often and is mostly based on hype.
But everyone who produces stuff will be able to produce stuff in the future.
So unless we find a way to make buildings, computer systems, mechanical systems etc obsolete, we will need engineers in those fields.
How many is needed is decided by the market, if you suck at it or there are too many people for the jobs, you should do something else.
Worst case, you start your own company because nobody wants to hire you.

Focus in being good and having a good network

I know everyone wants to be mediocre and have a good pay

but
>medical
>vet
>dental
are all STEM. just doctorates in stem.


but besides that, STEM is a lower investment cost and is guaranteed to net you at least 50-60k a year if you're absolute shit. which is more than what any other degree can get you. and unlike medical you don't have to deal with the cutthroat nature of it all and having to go to school for 10 years.
and if you don't get your doctorates as a med student/vet student you're sol.

things like accounting or finance are too hit or miss and you could end up making more, or you end up making way less.

I wish I majored in history

I wish I majored in history
I wish I majored in history
I wish I majored in history
I wish I majored in history
I

If you don't mind me asking, what do you do?

Graduating and looking for jobs right now and the most I'm looking at is around 80k, given it is entry level I do see a lot of people (not just on Cred Forums) mentioning getting paid 100-400k with CS and I'm curious about what you guys are doing to get there and what skillset you have/how experience you are.

Hey man, I'm hoping to use my STEM job to pay off my 15 year mortgage early so I can do little jobs instead of slaving away in my cubicle.

That being said, making $71k 4 years in in what the coasters call "flyover" is pretty great.

>Robots are replacing humans in no-Stem jobs and you are forced to study Stem if you want survive the next decade. If you dont are engineer you are obsolete.

You guys realize they've been saying this shit since the 80's, right?

Literally just get into any top company like Microsoft and Facebook. They all pay that much.

>med, vet, dental
gross desu

>law, accounting
top kek, good luck in this shithole literally everyone is one

>finance
hmm, possibly

he's lying. no one outside of the big 5 pay that, and that's at senior III/IV positions, and they wouldn't be posting here.

Most make under 200k unless you're the expert on the subject.
I've worked with people who've quit for 200+ jobs, so I mean I know its a thing.
Though I expect most people on Cred Forums are full of shit. You never know when we have a legitimate dude here who's just bored.

Outside of a very select few positions though look at security jobs I don't see many outside the 120k range even at the top levels though. Which I was kinda hoping for otherwise. Not that i don't mind that pay, was just seeing if there was something better.

Those are just salaries.

Its still about 140k (in california money) for a mid level software developer.

It being california though that's like 80k anywhere else in teh world.

Stop looking for california positions if you don't want to live in california. You know companies have offices elsewhere right?

Yes, which pay quite a bit less as well.

Which is why I was asking the question what user did.

year med school degree, sacrificing all semblance of social life as you cram information and go into massive debt that will take a decade to pay off

WTF dude, it was just 6 years here in post Hitler Germany for me. I'm still fucked b/c I slacked hard and got some massive debt b/c of my poor family. Currently doing CS masters to regain some self-respect.

I think you're just retarded.

lol i did a maths degree and now i such shit for a living, what the hell do you do thats so great

Middle school teacher.

And note how none of those make 200k, and I'm doubting they get 100k bonuses every year.
Looking around it tops out about 20k, which is still registering under 200k.

CA jobs pay so much because the housing situation is beyond fucked in the entire bay area because of NIMBYs. you're paying a minimum 3k for a single apartment. other markets are less, but so is the COL.

you only work four days a week as a teacher?

Accounting is alright I guess but you're only maintaining things, not building new things
Finance is parasitism
Medicine is fucking expensive to get into and most of the time involves working with people, either emotionally, physically, or both, which sucks
Vet/dental are the same boat
Law is again fucking expensive to get into and basically requires dishonesty (of the "marketing" type, not the "perjury" type)

Most of them will get at least 50k in stock per year. Probably more now that it has gone up so much.

It does, the world is shit, the struggle is absurd, but real. Do what feels right user. Teaching adults isn't so bad.

>but you're only maintaining things
I don't really see the problem here.

Since when does Canada have a military?

You ought to seek to be remembered in history for improving the world, rather than as simply a cog in a machine someone else built. STEM (and the arts, but the arts are a lot more risky to engage in due to conferring only aesthetic improvements rather than material ones) allows you to contribute to public knowledge, whereas accounting doesn't.

>Mathematics, Physics
>B-but its just spreadsheets and calculators, right?
Science will never be automated, because if you figured it out enough to automate it, then it isnt science anymore but engineering

The people who are remembered aren't BS graduates working at a random corporation, its researchers and business men. and accounting has their fair share of both of those.

There's actually been some fun, albeit specific examples, things done where computers are able to generate mathematical proofs better than actual mathematicians.
Given there's still a lot of work to be done, math is something that will probably eventually be done mostly by computers, considering the structure of it is mostly based on building upon previous problems.

The lion's share of business is parasitism and dishonesty, rather than actual innovation, and what the hell makes something accounting research rather than mathematics, sociology, or economics research?

>You ought to seek to be remembered in history for improving the world, rather than as simply a cog in a machine someone else built.
There's nothing wrong with being the maintainer even if you have the capacity to be a creator or businessperson. A functioning society needs both kinds of people. If anything, society doesn't emphasize the maintainers enough.

>medicine is the lowest
>politics is one of the highest
Seems like a retard made this chart.
No source either. It all checks out.