What is THE programmer's distro?

Arch is pretty great because I can get an up to date package for anything and things aren't patched to hell and back.
However if you are just a code monkey/don't give a shit about your own trade you're better off using Windows with WSL, Fedora or Ubuntu since they'll be good enough to pay the bills. After all there's no chance you'll get enough competition in your lifetime for you to get kicked out for being mediocre.

Probably GuixSD fosdem.org/2018/schedule/event/usingguix/
Sounds like a programmer's dream.

bloat

Any that have the software (most major distros do) you work with.

At that point you're covered from IDE, compilers, shells, editors to VMs and containers anyhow, it doesn't matter much after that.

Gentoo can be nice if part of the stuff you develop on Git is supposed to run updated on developer machines so they actually use it and not just get results from CI or their compiler. But that's a particular approach. Many have dedicated QA or whatever instead.

macOS

install plan9

Pic related, oddly enough. It's STILL the only distro that's 100% ready to open an editor and start hacking right off the install media. If it shipped KDE 5 and Flatpak on the default install with the Flathub repo configured I'd recommend it to newbies.

enjoy your complete lack of dependency resolution

Anything that has the tools you need for your project

Don’t go down the distrofag hole, it doesn’t fucking matter

If OP can install all his software from source there is no need he wouldn't have a preferred distro. If on the other hand he can't for the life of him do a simple dependency handling then Ubuntu (or PCLinuxOS) is its only escape.

Maybe two extreme ends but even I don't use Ubuntu myself anymore from a programmer standpoint is attractive.

Boring office stuff like spread sheets: Red Hat, CentOS
Noobs general: Ubuntu
Entry-level coding: Debian
Reale serious coding, top-end server stuff and hardcore hacking: Arch

Minimalist no DE Gentoo installation

>imblying all the tools - whichever ide/editor and debuggers aren't available on breddy much all the platforms...
>tfw I use code on debian... :^]

Unironically this

Are you using Arch because of the AUR?

manjaro

This.
Guix the package manager can be used on any distro though!

Why?

It's the OS most used by professional programmers

pop!_os

>I'm too stupid to know what slackbuild is
>b-b-b-but it doesn't do it FOOR MEEE!

Q: ?
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heheheheheeheheheheheheheehehehehe!
>he uses xcode....

All you sadacts not going oldskool with pfe...

Literally false. Developers working on macbooks almost unilaterally end up running VMware Fusion to run a windows environment for development.

Not that windows is better for development, but thats where the market is.

"Install everything on the DVD u fag" covers 90% of dependency issues with Slackware.

Unironically Windows 10

A proper developer will assume old garbage packages and thus Debian is the distro of choice.

test

It's legitimately the only consumer Unix option left in the market.
With it you get a standard environment that is managed by Apple, this means you don't have to manage your own OS and since the environment is standard, developers can make assumptions and use first party APIs as well, including you, this makes it easy to intigrate your own tools or 3rd party tools to extend the OS to your liking. It's certified Unix which means it's POSIX compliant, anything you can run on any other POSIX system you can run on it.

Best of all it's free and the majority of it is open source. The development tools are free and are some of the best in the business in terms of productivity, analysis, and performance. Compare xcode to VS, compare clang+llvm to other compilers.

At the very least it's something you should try out if you're serious about a PROGRAMMERS distro, not a sysadmins distro.

>install from minimal iso
>400 packages
>install i3
>?
>profit

>Developers working on macbooks almost unilaterally end up running VMware Fusion to run a windows environment for development.
Have to concur - any monkeys I know all bootcamp or vm

Unironical Ubuntu. All programming whit you want is inside.

But having to run bug fixes for your translations still lets you develop inside of OSX. You can also use something called "deployment" to test Windows compatibility...

>Arch is pretty great because I can get an up to date package for anything and things aren't patched to hell and back.

Tru dat user.

I love how my code compiles one day, and the very next it doesn't compile because an update broke my code!

If I wanted to start out with a Macbook, what would you recommend?

OP said "programmer", not "web developer".

Don't develop unstable APIs.

It depends on what you do. My reccomendation is to try OS X out in a VM first and see if you can adapt, take into account the performance is going to be dogshit because it's a VM, if you can cope with the OS itself, go to your local Apple store and test out various models with some workload that you brought on a thumbdrive. Or see if you can install OS X on a machine you already have first.

While I'd promote OS X and think it runs great on Apple hardware, Apple hardware isn't necessary. It is good though for the same reason mentioned before, if your Apple hardware has any problems whatsoever, you can take it to any Apple store and walk out with a replacement just like that. Their customer support is unmatched so if you don't want to deal with the OS, use OS X, if you don't want to worry about hardware ever, get a mac. You have to find the balance that works for you.

If I had my choice I'd get a macbook pro, if I didn't have to travel so often for work I'd buy their trashcan. But that's for my needs, your needs may be different. Currently I use OS X on my custom made desktop because I already had it.

I was planning on gettung a Macbook Pro, but I meant what year?

I'm on the fence between the '14 and '15 models, although if there's anything older that has a 1080p screen that would be good too.

Kali

>enjoy your stability and lack of dependency hell
why yes I will! thank you very much.

Obviously that's going to be left up to your preference and budget. Personally I prefer smaller displays because when I'm working I'm hooked up to an external display anyway and when I'm mobile I want my device as small and light as possible, also battery life. Some people want a bigger screen.

you're from a 'tech-hub' like silicon valley aren't you? You realize you basically live in a bubble right?

you realize you're buying into a product that's literally on the decline right? Apple doesn't even have a dedicated OSX division anymore, it got gobbled up by the iOS people. This is why High Sierra has had all those stupid security and data loss issues recently. Have fun developing on a glorified iPad.

What actual packages have not compiled for you? When?

>Ubuntu started doing this shit years ago
>Gnome still doing this today
>Microsoft doing it since W8
You're fucked no matter what unless you maintain your own system. Enjoy your glorified Android and WinRT/UWP.

>implying mobile-like interfaces are the only issue
None of those have had the stupendous failures that Apple has had recently, like accepting blank root passwords, or losing data because of their silly new filesystem. High Sierra's performance is also dog shit compared to how smooth Snow Leopard was back in the day. I'm just saying, your hopping onto a sinking ship, when even Microsoft seems to have learned a bit from their past mistakes with Windows 8.

I don't know about the future of Ubuntu, but I don't give two shits about it either, because I use Slackware and OpenBSD now, after years of Apple bullshit.

Debian with LXDE

Pick and choose, every system has had security issues, they just aren't often as publicized. Remember when you could do the same thing on Linux by just hitting backspace a bunch. Remember every Windows privileged escalation. Remember every Android rooting process.

At any moment the system you use right now could be the one being targeted, it's more of a cycle than anything else. And at the end of the day you're still boned with shit like hardware exploits.

And I bet you own like 20 pairs of socks but you only ever need to cycle between 2 pairs, wear one while the other is in the wash. Your sock drawer is bloated!!!!!111

>Remember when you could do the same thing on Linux by just hitting backspace a bunch
That was grub (which is entirely optional) not linux.

>Remember every Windows privileged escalation. Remember every Android rooting process.
Yeah and they're both shit.

My point is that it's all shit eventually, it's all retroactive, as with all security. All locks are great, until you you find out how to bypass them, then you realize you weren't really protected that entire time.

their own

Some locks are broken into more than others.

Some locks are more popular than others.

Popularity is not correlated with quality.

Indeed, but it is with publications, which was the point I made originally.

>Made his own kernel

I don't understand what your argument is anymore. Linux is widely used and extremely popular in many places where security matters. There's not a bunch of secret vulnerabilities no one has found because no one uses Linux.

I know it's common here but some people just like discussion, not everything is an argument, this is a public forum after all.

An argument is a form of discussion which is what this conversation falls under.

Maybe you see it that way, but I don't. I guess we disagree.

I honestly don't understand all the responses in this thread most of them are pretty cringe. Linux is fucking Linux for the most part.

Have a decently beastly system. I have Windows 10 for Visual studio shit. Run Ubuntu 16.04 VM for Python dev environment(pimp vim out) and get to know GIT cmd line.

Run Kali and occasionally BlackArch for Pentesting stuff. Redhat or CentOS is good for experiments with hacking into webservers etc because that's what most of the shit out there is running on. Windows is good for gaming. If you have enough horsepower on your computer you can easily run all of these OS's in VM's quite conveniently. If you want a true blue committed system just dualboot. I see a lot of programmers using MacOs but I can't bring myself to do it.

>everything is shit
Is more of statement of opinion than anything else.

>I guess we disagree.
Which makes this an argument by default.

If you wish to treat it as one then I'm not going to stop you or argue about it, as that's not my desire and was never the intention. I'm not sure what you're after, if you expect me to present some unbeatable security system, I'm sorry but my whole expression of dismay was that I don't think it exists, I'd like others to present something that covers all bases and I assume that's what the OP is after as well.

There is no perfect security system but some are certainly better than others.

CloverOS.

You're entitled to your opinion but you're not going to be able to convince me to change mine. As I already stated they're all equally bad in my eyes. So long as there is no bulletproof system they are all equal, I doubt we will attain such a system in my lifetime without some sort of breakthrough, possibly bestowed upon us by machines analyzing shit at unfathomable speeds. Who knows.

Far from any stock distro. Within two months of install they've modded it to hell and back to make it comfy for their need, and their pet projects.

True for Linux, BSD, OSX and windows. A programmers personal machine is so far from stock, anyone else can't even use the machine.

This reasoning makes zero sense. Not all breaches are the same. The frequency of breaches, the severity, etc. all result in different security for different OSes. It's not an all or nothing game.

Have you considered that our perspectives, preferences, values, and ideals, are different.

>It's not an all or nothing game
You seem to think so and that's fine, I think differently. To me, a breach is a breach, if I wish to secure my data and I can't be certain about it then I am vulnerable. I live with the fact my data is vulnerable in the same way I do with my physical self, it's not the end of the world but it obviously isn't ideal. To me it's just a realistic view on the situation, I think it's delusional to think otherwise, to assume you are safe because nothing is published or no evidence of intrusion is found. If you think otherwise so be it, you're allowed to. Again, this isn't an argument, it's expression of opinions, I'm not trying to convince you to see it my way and you're not capable of swaying me either. You can treat it as one all you wish but I'm going to keep believing what I believe unless I can see some proof of a secure system, if you could prove this you'd do better to spend your time elsewhere, you could become very rich.

Slackware is one of my favorites for this reason, it's still very much a minimalist distro and yet still is actually usable, compared to other "minimal" distros like Arch.

MX Linux is a distro that works 100% out of the box as well, but it's still >debian

>windows 8

holy cow i forgot that dogshit even existed it was so bad

What's so bad about Debian you don't like the package management or what?

>I think it's delusional to think otherwise
You're creating a false dichotomy. You don't have to think you're completely safe for preferring an option that has a better track record with vulnerabilities and mitigations. What you're suggesting is akin to advising an investor to just allocate his money to any random stock in the markets, instead of doing actual due diligence to figure out what has the best odds, because you seem to be completely excluding the concept of odds and probably altogether.

I've "invested" in openbsd for example, because they actually have good practices, policies, and processes in place to minimize their users' risks, and have a track record to show for it. What you appear to be suggesting on the other hand, is that the cryptography & security experts working on openbsd are somehow equally likely of producing exploitable code, as Mr. Nobody's random hobby distro. I'm sorry, but that's just straight postmodernist/nihilist thinking applied to operating systems, and doesn't have as much bearing on reality as you seem to think it does.

oh nah I'm fine with Debian (and I use MX as my daily), saying ">debian" just helps explain its entire background in one word. Although, MX doesn't use systemd by default.

I've gotten pretty used to Ubuntu SysVconfig is annoying

>Users ideologies
if you actually let philosophical principles guide the fucking operating system you use you are worse than subhuman

Gentoo
>t. Programmer

MX is so perfect (as a desktop OS) that you'll never need to touch anything init related anyways.

>It's the soy used by most soybois

>what is the unix /philosophy/?
>what is caring about correct/secure code?
>what is wanting to use a system that you can feel confident will be around for a while without getting eaten alive by politics?
go back to /r/eddit

>What you're suggesting
I'm expressing my opinion, not suggesting you follow it.

>to minimize their users' risks
I'm glad you understand the problem.

>What you appear to be suggesting
I've been more than clear on what I'm doing, I shouldn't "appear" to be suggesting anything.

>that's just straight postmodernist/nihilist thinking applied to operating systems, and doesn't have as much bearing on reality as you seem to think it does.
It's just mathematics, a secure system is provably secure, we're just not there yet and I have doubts we'll be there anytime soon. It seems like we can only get there with machine analysis and even then it's questionable if the machines were programmed properly to cover all cases, but since we're not even at that point yet I don't have to even consider it yet.

I'm sorry but I'm starting to think you're just looking for a fight and you won't find one with me, my laundry is done so I'm going to jerk off and go to bed. I don't have any more time to give you. I stated my opinion and you stated something, I read it and understand it but it changes nothing for me. If I had more time I'd stick around but such is life, we'll both have to deal with it.

you're responding to a different user my dude. I'm just pointing out that it reads like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. If we're gonna talk about mathematics and provable correctness, that's a whole different matter and I'm completely in favor of tech like seL4, idris and rust, but like you said, that's a while away from being done. The issue I'm seeing is just perpetuating the idea that because perfection isn't done yet, we can just throw our hands up in the air and settle with mainstream, lowest common denominator tech, assuming there aren't significant improvements that can be made already.

Besides, security isn't the only thing that matters, things like openbsd are secure largely because they're more sanely designed (albeit still imperfect), and that pays dividends on its own in other ways.

>security isn't the only thing that matters
This was what I was getting at since the beginning. OP isn't asking about security, someone was knocking OS X for its security, to which I remarked it's all bad but I mentioned before that the merits of OS X as a programming OS. That's the summery as best I can give it.

The real problem at hand is should I pick Japanese lesbians or Japanese ladyboys.

>majority is open source
But can you prove that?

Same as any other project.
Download the published source code, compile it, do binary diffs, check the percentage.

probably best choice for most jobs. most libraries out there will compile on ubuntu, without problems. been using it 10 years professionally and no matter what the job is it just werks.

Have been a paid software dev for 14 years and spent my childhood being a Unix nerd (dad was a Unix sys admin). The best distros is the one that has what you need to do the job and is familiar to you. For me it's generally Ubuntu these days although if I'm totally honest 95% of my work is now done on Windows because that is where the money comes from.
>muh macOS shilling
Literal meme-tier garbage promoted by retarded webdevs and cunt academics. Every professional environment I've worked in that was mac-centric had massive fucking problems stemming from that poor decision.

OP said "Programmer" not "Faggot"

/thread

>Literal meme-tier garbage promoted by retarded webdevs and cunt academics.
And FreeBSD developers and illumos developers.

>Kali
This site is 18+
>Get out skid
>also learn to just install the software you need by your self

It's not meaningfully true. Darwin hasn't been bootable in a decade.

youtube.com/watch?v=PXFwN3q1VaY

Whatever works. I find that OSs like ubuntu typically have every library you could need in the repos but you can usually just compile those from source nowadays.

I've been meaning to try out NixOS. Supposedly it's a godsend for reproducible builds.

>Far from any stock distro. Within two months of install they've modded it to hell and back to make it comfy for their need, and their pet projects.

Good point really, you soon end up with replacing the distros packages with the latest of well a LOT of shit. I lit have no control on this box and the install is well maybe 4 months ago?

You need the latest shit. Arch guys have a point with their distros, but I personally can't have the regular updates break that often. I need a stable system as in atomic bomb proof, yet with whatever libs I need to be updated to the bleeding edge version. So a debian fork here, with shitloads of libs'n'shit updated/modified to absolute newest versions

I used to like ubuntu, until I kept filling up my 64Gb partitions with software alone, and I haven't even had a chance to work with the OS for more than a week before it was full!

I now stick to slimmed down Debian with i3 on 32 Gb partitions, and I have yet to run out of disk space once.

Once you stop using mouse-based window managers is when you actually become efficient at work. Otherwise you'll waste so much time fiddling with tabs, windows, and UI tweaks that it starts to severely bog down your work with unnecessary fiddling.

writing fucking javashit and other web crap is not programming

>i.e. webdevs and cunt academics
why the redundant redundancy?

Dragora gnu/linux

Explain how it's not programming.

This. I use VSCode for the current project I'm on at work, and after switching from Win10 to Debian, it was literally as easy as copying the folder off my backup drive, running npm i, and getting back to work.

Cause jaba a shit lol XD

Node.js begs to differ mate.

haneycodes.net/npm-left-pad-have-we-forgotten-how-to-program/

node """developers""" can beg whatever the hell they want, doesn't make them anything more than code monkeys.

fpbp

CloverOS

MX is great if you don't mind packages being out of date a little

...

9front.

>The programmer's distro
>Whatever the fuck they want