Why is the U.K. leaving the European Union? Because, although for many years the British were happy to have a close geopolitical alliance with like-minded countries of similar levels of economic development, building trade links, converging regulatory systems, and ever-closer collaboration, in the end the British did not have quite enough cultural and constitutional similarity with their partners to take the final steps towards political union. It also didn’t help that, towards the end, the alliance included countries of much lower income levels.
If that is why the British are leaving, the natural question is: are there any countries out there with similar values and similar income levels with whom the British have greater cultural and constitutional similarity? That is obviously a question that answers itself: Canada, Australia and New Zealand are closer to Britain, constitutionally and culturally, than anywhere in Europe. And their income levels are fairly similar: in 2014, the U.K. had a GDP per capita of about US$46,000, versus US$44,000 for New Zealand, US$50,000 for Canada and Australia a little higher at US$62,000.
They are also the countries Britons like most, by a large margin. A 2011 survey by the research firm YouGov found that Australia, New Zealand and Canada are regarded as “especially favourable” by 48, 47 and 44 per cent of Britons. The next most-favoured country, the U.S., was way behind at 31 per cent, and the most-favoured EU member, the Netherlands, had only half the favourability of those three countries, at 24 per cent. The feeling is fairly mutual. A 2014 survey found 80 per cent of Canadians and 73 per cent of Australians regard the U.K.’s influence as “mainly positive.” (By way of reference, that same survey found only 43 per cent of Canadians regard American influence as “mainly positive,” versus 52 per cent who regard it as “mainly negative.”)
So some close geopolitical alliance between these “CANZUK” countries could obviously work in terms of culture, constitutions, income and mutual regard. But would it be worth it in other terms, such as trade or defence? Well, in brute terms these four countries would obviously constitute a big global player. Between them they would control a surface area of more than 18 million square kilometres, the largest in the world, exceeding even Russia’s 17 million. Their combined population, at 128 million, would be the world’s 10th largest, just ahead of Japan. Their combined military spending of around US$110 billion would be the world’s third largest, behind the U.S. and China but well ahead of Russia.
Elijah Jackson
Canada, Australia and New Zealand are more like Britain than any EU member At US$6.5 trillion in combined GDP, the CANZUK countries would constitute the fourth-largest group in the world, behind the U.S., EU and China. At nearly two-thirds the combined GDP of China, no one could deny that a CANZUK economic grouping would be economically significant. Total global trade of these four countries would be worth more than US$3.5 trillion, versus around US$4.8 trillion for the U.S., US$4.2 trillion for China, or US$1.7 trillion for Japan. These are big numbers by global standards.
What might be the elements to a new partnership? The first step might be a new trade deal, perhaps encompassing all four countries together. Then we could add free movement of people — i.e., the automatic right to move to work. A special defence partnership might follow, perhaps including the U.K. providing a nuclear shield to Australia (more credible today than U.S. guarantees) and naval support to Canada to enforce its claims on the increasingly important Northwest Passage. We could develop mutual recognition of our economic, environmental and health and safety regulations, along with our labour standards. Perhaps we might agree to committees or other institutions to develop future regulation together.
It would be very important that Canada, Australia and New Zealand did not see this as some reheated latter-day British Empire. Hence, any CANZUK governance institutions (akin to the European Commission, the IMF or the Bank for International Settlements) should be located in a member country other than the U.K. In any event, the modern U.K. population of around 65 million is only a little greater than that of Canada and Australia combined. The risk of dominance through asymmetry of economic or population size would be small. This would be a partnership of equals.
Isaac Barnes
The vast geographic range of a CANZUK union would obviously offer huge opportunities for influence and internal expansion, likely leading to population increases particularly in Canada and Australia. Some may worry that it would also present challenges of coherence and trade transport. But in modern economies, transport costs for goods are fairly cheap and most of the value of output lies in services. Tradable services can often be transferred over the Internet or via other modern communications. With other factors to bind countries and peoples together, geographic spread is an increasingly obsolete barrier.
A CANZUK alliance would allow its peoples to assert their very similar culture and values in the world as a major global player instead of secondary regional players ultimately subservient to others. It would allow enormous opportunities for mutual reinforcement and protection, trade growth, the flow of people and weight in global economic, regulatory and geopolitical decision-making. When CANZUK speaks, all would listen.
Are you ready for Anglo Supremacy?
Joshua Perez
>Implying America won't be part of CAZUK-USA
Parker Rivera
look we all want it, but you have weedman and the australians have a republican
Logan Hall
all the american posters tell us you aren't anglo
Ian Carter
you're Germans we had 99% British immigration right up to WII
Jack Watson
Will it start WW3 for Hong Kong
Grayson Morales
Why aren't they leaving? They voted for it. Now act!
James Edwards
>WE WUZ GERMS
Justin Kelly
yes
Ethan Ross
>this will never exist
at least I already have my british passport
Alexander Edwards
It's never too late to try
Nicholas Miller
I'd support this OP, but if it does happen it'll be a long time coming. Untangling ourselves to the EU, while remaining involved in Europe (naturally), and then striking new trade deals will take a long time
Brandon Harris
Fucking leaves do not want closer ties to UK.
Oliver Wilson
Why not
Carson Martin
I approve.
Although the Commonwealth basically does the same thing already, just with a lot more members. If it was an alliance of all Commonwealth Realms (all countries with Queen Elizabeth II as their head of state), rather than the whole Commonwealth or just CANZUK, it would make a lot more sense. Especially if there was free movement and we could all just fuck off to places like Jamaica and Bermuda without all the bother of international travel.
Matthew Torres
Why the FUCK would you want uncontrolled immigration from India and half of Africa? He's lying, only quebecois and non-whites don't like the queen.
Thomas Hughes
I like it
Hi Quebec
He's probably French-Canadian or poo in loo
Jackson Sanchez
I was saying free movement between the Commonwealth Realms, so only places on this map in blue.
Brandon Bell
Those islands have a lot of people, at least Jamaica does. And PNG has 7 million people, no thanks.
Passport union between CANZUK when
Zachary Collins
as a british citizen one can just fuck off to bermuda
Sebastian Perez
>mfw you unironically wrote all this nonsense
Brayden Young
He didn't write it.
It's copypasted from an article by the economist Andrew Lilico
Nathaniel Lopez
>Andrew Lilico >Christian, Philosopher, New Zealander, Briton, Singer, Economist, Political writer, Father of five
>mfw this guy acutally wrote all this nonsense
Cameron Miller
I approve. But we should cut the bullshit and just go under this flag
Bentley Morgan
UKbooism is a mental disorder.
Gabriel Green
Indeed.
This is my face when I realised the same. As you can see by the expression on this image macro, it's quite something
Owen Ramirez
for
Kevin Bailey
Reminder that if Britain fully brexits without doing this scotland will leave
Ethan Thompson
Fuck that shit.
Why are Canucks such cucks?
Colton Foster
Nah they won't. Brexit has actually made Scottish independence much less likely
Caleb Sanders
A
Dylan Cox
nah I just find fringe ideas like the unification of canada, austrealia, nz and the UK to be rather odd.
Those who deny longstanding economic theories like the gravity model of trade by simply doing them away with "trade costs are low + the internet" is quite disingenious.
This side of idealistic British conservatism strikes me as a bit odd.
Ayden Morris
to be honest Ireland is the most similar country to britain in the entire world, far more so than canada or australia (flags in corners left aside for a moment).
Jeremiah Bell
...
Aaron Morales
A proper federal union seems very out there but a looser kind of thing would work nicely between these four countries. The idea has some merit. It's a natural grouping of countries, far more sensible than those who bang on about the "special relationship" and the USA.
However, the UK has a lot of work to do to get into the position where we're competent enough to handle stuff like this. Also, this particular economist doesn't seem very smart. Not been impressed with what I've read from him before.
Jeremiah Gutierrez
Why aren't we closer to NZ? We have some of the best relations in the world.
canada, australia and NZ aren't particularly useful from an economic standpoint (as in open trade borders with those cunts aren't going to suddenly jolt our economy into action) and we all follow the US geopolitically. If it's just about movement of people between these countries and stuff, I still think the Uk stands to lose. A few canadians and aussies will want to go work in london sure, but alot of people in middlesborough and birmingham would love to leave their shitty terraced houses for room in canada or uastralia, and I think on a net the outflow of migration would intensify.
Economically we should be actually calling all the other emerging markets in the commonwealth up (India, Malaysia, Singapore, South Africa, Kenya, Ghana) and asking them if we can export stuff to them.
Jacob Walker
The other thing is that after Elizabeth will these countries retain the monarchy?
Brayden Martin
Just a reminder- the Queen Mother lived to 101. The Royals are a very long-lived family. It stands to reason that Her Majesty will outlive her mother.
Considering she's 90 now, that means another 10 years at least. By then, Weedman and Prep the TurnBull will have resigned or lost elections. I don't see these countries keeping these current governments for too long. Western society is swinging towards the right, we're moving away from liberalism and heading back into conservative and classically liberal values and traditionalism. By the time Charles III or William V takes the throne, the colonial countries will be loving of the monarchy again.
Leo Foster
Why wouldn't they?
At least speaking for Canada, most people simply do not give a shit about the monarchy (Outside of Quebec, of course, but they've always been opposed and nothing's come of it) enough to foster a republican movement.
The biggest thing we've done in regards of republicanism is changing from the Red Ensign to the >leaf. Australia's got a far bigger republican movement, but even then, it's really not big enough to be truly serious.
TL;DR: Canadians and a good majority of the other Commonwealth Realms really couldn't care less about the monarchy and therefore aren't really that opposed to it.
Ryder Lee
nice crystal ball you've got there.
Connor Williams
lol!
Kevin Perez
There is common talk that after the queen the monarchy may just be quietly done away with in many commonwealth countries.
I expect that this will happen in most caribbean realms.
The thing with removing the monarchy is, that literally entails changing the currency bills and doing a big ctrl:F and replacing "The Monarch" and "The Governor-General" with "The President". Ie nothing tangibly changes, so it's not like a big decision.
Ethan Flores
>canada, australia and NZ aren't particularly useful from an economic standpoint (as in open trade borders with those cunts aren't going to suddenly jolt our economy into action)
The sum total makes a decent sized "domestic" market though. Approx 122 million people. Still, as the 65 million country, they gain much more than we do, if the market existed. Anyway I believe the idea is not that these are amazing huge markets, but that the similarity of the cultures make them easier to harmonise.
>alot of people in middlesborough and birmingham would love to leave their shitty terraced houses for room in canada or uastralia, and I think on a net the outflow of migration would intensify. I think you're seriously over-estimating this. UK emigration to those countries has been slowing a long time.
>Economically we should be actually calling all the other emerging markets in the commonwealth up (India, Malaysia, Singapore, South Africa, Kenya, Ghana) and asking them if we can export stuff to them.
Well sure but even this is not ambitious enough. We need to be thinking beyond the Commonwealth. Special effort has to be made in South America and South East Asia imo. These are big markets and we actually have some ties that can be built upon.
Re-kindling old ties with countries like "CANZUK" is worthwhile but if we're moving into a new era we also must strike out beyond the Commonwealth and become almost the semi-conductor between emerging markets and the advanced economies
The popularity of William and Kate makes the monarchy reasonably secure. Remember as soon as Charles becomes King, then William is the Prince of Wales and will be sent all over the world to do the "kinging" in lieu of Charles
Sebastian Peterson
AUSCANNZUKUS thread when?
Noah Miller
Huh? Don't 70% of Canadians favour the monarchy or something? Plus women love that shit. I know our flag is moronic and a liberal branding of 70's era Pierre elliot Trudeau and Pearson style of liberalism but aren't we still over all still in love with the monarchy? excluding Quebec and our immigrants of course.
Brayden Sullivan
I wish, if only we could remove the pakis.
Samuel Moore
>The popularity of William and Kate makes the monarchy reasonably secure As I said, some countries will just quietly sweep it under the rug. Whether this happens in Australia and Canada, is still too close to call.
>decent sized "domestic" market though it's not really a domestic market though, as it's far easier for canada to trade with the US, for the UK to trade with europe and for australia and NZ to focus on asia.
>UK emigration to those countries has been slowing a long time. but if people were given free reign to settle into those countries as if just moving cities, there would be a literal deluge, I imagine.
>We need to be thinking beyond the Commonwealth the commonwealth is just an excample where alot of the diplomacy and agreements are already hammered out, my point was emerging markets matter more at this stage.
>that the similarity of the cultures make them easier to harmonise as economist i don't know what this means. Similarity of institutions might help trading, but that is still fighting against the negative predictions of distance and even silly things like timezone differences on conducting trade and foreign direct investment.
The harmonisation of culture thing comes from a sort of nationalistic and historical context, not an economic or even a particularly political one. Therefore it is only marginally a tangible benefit and more of something people and more of an idealistic preference than something that will deliver some sort of actual benefit. I personally think diplomatic efforts are better spent elsewhere than trying to rekindle CANZUk.
Sebastian Edwards
If the main priority of this Union would be about British culture and a shared British history instead of multiculturalism, then every ethnic minority would have incentive to integrate.
Ryan Stewart
WASP pride worldwide
Jordan Garcia
>Charles III >the colonial countries will be loving of the monarchy again >Charles III >loving of the monarchy The grandkids are alright but you shouldn't underestimate the disdain for that cunt here.
Ian Smith
>If the main priority of this Union would be about British culture and a shared British history instead of multiculturalism, then every ethnic minority would have incentive to integrate. why? British culture is quite hands-off when it comes to culture and how people should live their lives.
Chase White
All we wanted was representation in parliament.
We could've been part of this.
Austin Carter
That's not culture, that's policy.
Julian Brooks
I still don't get how you claimed to have no political representation but still managed to have a bunch of political delegates decide on whether to declare independence and then raise an entire army, if you guys were living under the tyranny of a foreign kingdom.
David Allen
I mean these ideals come from magna carta and John Locke and so on.
Technically you should be allowed to live however you like, provided you do not break laws. If that means a bunch of migrants want to all buy/rent houses in the same neighbourhoods, practice the same religion, dress the same as they did before (without coercion), eat the same food, speak the same language at home and so on (whilst all following the law and being economically active), I don't see how any of that can be curtailed without really going against core anglo ideals.
Carter Campbell
why?
Ethan Fisher
What do we get out of it? We already get the decent Brits through skilled migration and most of them fucking miserable cunts. Why would we want the dregs too? If anything we should be shutting ourselves off to the world by ending free movement with NZ.
Parker Rivera
Trade, better geopolitical clout, can move to UK or Canada (yes a lot of Aussies do come to UK, mostly work related), also most Brits are not very different to most Australians , maybe you just associate with cunts?
Eli Long
never EVER
Charles Moore
>USA >Anglo
Juan Ward
>you >japanese
Adam Johnson
>Trade Our economic future lies in our backyard. >better geopolitical clout America's pet dog and a country which is about to get gigacucked by the EU will hardly confer anything useful to us. Not to mention Britain's relations with Australia is stained with self-serving cynicism on Britain's part. You cut us off to run off with France and Germany and now you want back in now that you realised your mistake? No thanks m8 >can move to UK or Canada Memery, the sort of which your country rejected mere months ago.
Jacob Allen
>also most Brits are not very different to most Australians new zealanders and australians are literally the same in every way and we still didn't want to share a country, what makes you think they'd accept a bunch of p*ms?
Nathan Collins
>Trade What being China's bitch? >Politics Those countries you dismiss have large and developed economies, are extremely similar to yours, and in the case of the UK have a powerful military. Also the UK is escaping a sinking ship and if the EU decides to do as Junker threatens they will also suffer economically, worse in fact. Its literally Junker being a dictator. >movement We rejected that memery in the EU, are you comparing yourselves with bulgarians and turks? Maybe you are a Turk.
Owen Clark
because 10% of the population are poms and everybody (bar maoris and abos) are the descendants of poms. I am not advocating becoming the same country,A federal style union would work
Logan Price
You wanted Frogs and Krauts and you got Poles and Gypsies. What's to say we wouldn't get Luton instead of Oxford?
>China's bitch We have more of a backbone wrt China m8. Who's hosting a Chinese nuclear reactor soon?
What would this union facilitate? How much sovereignty would you have us yield to it?
Jayden Hernandez
>luton >affording anything those in ghettos stay in ghettos desu
>china we rejected the chinese as they are sneaky wogs, but you are in their sphere of influence, you are close to the bastards and with America returning to isolationism... >what would it achieve? Well it would facilitate a more powerful state, better trade (we do need trade deals atm desu and it would help us break free of US dominance), free movement between actual civilised places, the strengthening of anglo culture. i suppose we already have a model for it as we used to use such a system with dominions
Caleb Hernandez
too much work mate Also, >the U.K. providing a nuclear shield to Australia (more credible today than U.S. guarantees) and naval support to Canada to enforce its claims on the increasingly important Northwest Passage
I'd rather not. Our navy is already tiny. It doesn't need to be half way across the world when all you need to do is build or buy more ships
Cooper Anderson
all we need to do is build more ships, our navy wasn't always this small
Aiden Walker
Canada isn't even Anglo, it's a mutt country like USA
Only the non french parts of Atlantic Canada are even remotely like Australia/UK/NZ
Colton Hall
Wtf is the point?
Caleb Price
the white parts of canada that aren't quebec are pro queen anglos. Until the chinks arrived it was easier to find british papers in Vancouver than the papers from toronto.
Ryder Cox
so i can move permanently to nz and live in a house with a round door
Gavin Thompson
this desu
Dominic Ward
>are there any countries out there with similar values and similar income levels with whom the British have greater cultural and constitutional similarity Mississippi
Christopher Sullivan
You can move permanently to NZ at any time you want m8. We already have that agreement in place, Wouldn't want to ever live in the UK. Apart from whistler in winter Canada is no good also.
Josiah Russell
>Canzuk
Sounds like an Anglo-Babylonian dominion.
Evan Collins
Why is her Majesty despised in Australia? Can your hipsters and chinks not deal with people being better than them?
Gabriel Perez
The Queen is fine, William and Harry are fine. I was saying that we hate Charles. King Charles III would give the republicans the ammunition they need to succeed.
Landon Richardson
Of course we had our local governors, but we had no representation in the British parliament. There was government, but it was all local government that has to obey all decrees from Britain without any say in it.
Ayden Nelson
>If that means a bunch of migrants want to all buy/rent houses in the same neighbourhoods, practice the same religion, dress the same as they did before (without coercion), eat the same food, speak the same language at home and so on (whilst all following the law and being economically active) It would be nice if such kindness' could be done without such negative consequences, but it's been proven time and again that willfully dividing your country like such leads to long-term damages.
