What would go under music?

This is all

This is the most effort for shitty bait I've ever seen.

...

thank you

Faust
Trout Mask Replica
Kind of Blue
OK Computer
A Love Supreme
Loveless
Spiderland
Sing to God
Hot Rats
cLOUDDEAD
White Light/White Heat
Deceit
Pink Moon

why?

>anti-christ
>3 Miyazaki movies
>Picasso paintings
>life is strange
>limbo
>Franz Kafka
>lolita

Wow what a garbage chart

Antichrist and Daises are garbage

Art is about expression beauty, wonder, emotion; utilizing creativity and imagination, skill in design of visuals, writing, etc.

Video games check all of those boxes.

Cred Forums autists just like to pretend video games aren't art for some arbitrary reason so they can feel like their hobby is superior to others when all they listen to is basic bitch Cred Forumscore.

*expressing

Pop music is not art.

>being this contrarian

The Great Gatsby is one of the best books ever written.

Antichrist is great

Daisies is fun

go away

tru

If you need to ask Cred Forums, ask the /genre/ generals. You're just going to get a bunch of hipsters recommending their favourite indie rock post-punk albums asking Cred Forums proper.

Like film, 100% of video games are created with the ideal of turning a profit. Not art.

Uh oh someone fell for a big meme

Daisies isn't garbage per se but it's mediocre at best. The Czechoslovakian A bout de souffle.

Listening to music isn't a hobby

Here my votes:

Animal Collective-Spirit They've Gone Spirit They've Vanished
Robbie Basho-Visions of the Country
Boredoms-Vision Creation Newsun
Boris-Flood
David Bowie-Low
Coil-the Ape of Naples
John Coltrane-Ascension
The Cure-Disintegration
Miles Davis-Bitches Brew
Bob Dylan-Blonde on Blonde
Fishmans-98.12.28
Godspeed You! Black Emperor-Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antenna To Heaven
Gorgutd-Obscura
Have a Nice Life-Deathconciousness
Maudlin of the Well-Bath
The Microphones-Mount Eerie
Charles Mingus-The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady
My Bloody Valentine-Loveless
Radiohead-Kid A
Nico-Desertshore
Pharaoh Sanders-Karma
Slint-Spiderland
Bruce Springsteen-Nebraska
Arvo Part-Tabula Rasa
Sonic Youth-Daydream Nation
Tom Waits-Rain Dogs
Swans-Soundtracks for the Blind
The Velvet Undergound-The Velevet Underground and Nico
The Velevt Underground-White Heat/Whie Light

Sorry to hear that you're too stupid to understand art music.

Same with all art bud

You could've saved your time by just posting the Cred Forums essentials image.

Wrong Godspeed album

I like that literally every thatgamecompany game is on there. Except that weird cloud one nobody has played of course

Why not?

video games are meant merely as a game, similar to sports except there is art that goes into the creation of them. the character or scenic visual design in a video game is a form of art, but the game itself is as much an art as a game of checkers.

Not even true, but even if it was, a lot of the best classical music was created for money. Even the Sistine Chapel was commissioned for money. How does that invalidate them as art?

then what is it? unless you actually make your own music or perform, I'm pretty sure listening to music is just a hobby.

>vidya
>art

lmao

See

I'm pretty sure making music and/or performing is a hobby and listening to a music is an interest. Similar to playing sports as a hobby and watching them as an interest.

I actually agree with all of these. SFTB should be added in as well.

>turning a profit.
Not relevant.

art1
ärt/
noun
noun: art; plural noun: arts; plural noun: the arts

1.
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.

Since pop music shows expression of human creative imagination, it is indeed art.

Nice try though.

this, but without Ok Computer and sing to god

lol

legit kill urself

>pop music
>skill
>appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power
lol

...

>>skill
Write me a hit pop song write now.
>appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power
Why do you think people like it?

>some forms of sound arrangement are art but others aren't, but based entirely on the background of the creator and not the arrangement itself
>anyone who calls me out on this is stupid
you made a big oopsy daisy and you'll have to explain yourself

>Write me a hit pop song write now.
ABABABB

>Why do you think people like it?
Pop music is fashion

>but based entirely on the background of the creator and not the arrangement itself
That's not true, pop music is simplistic garbage.

simplistic by whose standards? you've called acts such as faust, captain beefheart, the residents, and this heat simplistic pop music. where do you draw the line between complex and simple?

>ABABABB
The notes A B A B? Anything else? That's not very catchy. Maybe it takes more skill than you think.
>Pop music is fashion
Oh you mean a discipline appreciated primarily for their beauty?

Nice try though.

define art music

My Bloody Valentine.
The Velvet Underground & Nico.
OK Computer/Kid A.
Dark Side of the Moon.
Kind of Blue.
A Love Supreme.
Bitch's Brew.
The Residents.
Spiderland.
Trout Mask Replica.
Master of Puppets.

Your "experimental" rawk music is just rawk music by people who can't play their instrument and play randomly. Pretentious illiterate morons like you eat it up and consider it genius.

Verse chorus verse.

>Oh you mean a discipline appreciated primarily for their beauty?
No. Take punk for example, which is just three chords with feedback. No one listens to it because they appreciate the music, they listen to it because of its rebellious image.

You could do this yourself in less than a minute if you used google.

Beck - Sea Change

Look dude I know the way you are getting at, but classical music really isn't the pinnacle of music as you think it is. For one, it has an absolutely boring way of looking at timbre quality of sound, despite the most sincerest efforts by the composer's imagination and the player, the violin can only produce so many types of sound, and the piano is even worst in the aspect of sound versatility.

Electronic music offers a variety in musical timbre that cannot be reproduced by classical instruments itself, but you are probably going to go and assume I'm talking about EDM so, whatever.

>music by people who can't play their instrument and play randomly
if you're not trolling then i seriously doubt you know anything about music or have ever touched an instrument in your life and you should get off this board and also maybe kys

if you are trolling then you should just kill yourself anyway lol

All four Velvet Underground records
Trout Mask Replica
Astral Weeks
Blonde on Blonde
A Love Supreme
Kind of Blue
Free Jazz: A Collective Improvisation
a Chuck Berry comp
Remain in Light
Call Me by Al Green
The collected work of Blind Willie Johnson
Layla
the first four Ramones albums
Paid in Full
It Takes a Nation of Millions
MBDTF
Dust Bowl Ballads
Critical Beatdown

>Verse chorus verse.
OK but what is your harmonic structure? Please show us.
>Take punk for example, which is just three chords with feedback. No one listens to it because they appreciate the music, they listen to it because of its rebellious image.
By this logic then Classical Music is not art since people only listen to it to appear smart.

>these albums are liked by other people so they can't be good!

I could see an argument for either, their basically equal i guess, I just prefer LYSFLATH

Interest and hobby essentially mean the same thing, the hobby is just the practice/result of the interest.

>i need to hear 1000 different sounds because I can't appreciate composition

Electronic music (including electronic art music) is degenerate because it takes away the human element in music.

Keep projecting.

I'm not going to bother with musical analysis because 99% of people on this board would not understand it.

>By this logic then Classical Music is not art since people only listen to it to appear smart.

Keep thinking this it it makes you feel better about the fact that you're unable to understand art music.

>>these albums are liked by other people so they can't be good!
That's not what I was trying to say. None of the albums you listed are good, but my point is that you've been listening to music for a few months and think you're a music expert for listening to Cred Forumscore pop music.

>I'm not going to bother with musical analysis because 99% of people on this board would not understand it.
Oh I will. Go ahead and explain. Show us the harmonic structure--with specific voice leading--of your pop song, if it requires no skill and imagination.
>Keep thinking this it it makes you feel better about the fact that you're unable to understand art music.
I never stated my views on art music. I am showing you the conclusions from your own logic.

deducing things about you from your ignorant posts isn't projection user fampai

>because it takes away the human element in music

Oh yeah that's right, all the human does is press some buttons and everything is done for them isn't it?

holy fucking shit dude

Video games can be art. But in general, video games that are art tend to be pretty shitty.

>I never stated my views on art music. I am showing you the conclusions from your own logic.
The difference is that art music can be appreciated.

It is.

Playing an electronic "instrument" takes no skill.

Not an argument.

Video games are a commodity like pop music.

ignoring the fact that vidya isn't art
>The Last of Us
>Life is Strange and other deep soulless bait indie shit

>no EYE
>no SotN
>no Monkey Island
>no La-Mulana
>no Rogue
>no Nethack
>no Terraria aka the logical conclusion to vidya

Reply to this or you'll die in your sleep tonight

not risking it

Ruth White
created electronic music
les rallizes dénudés
created noise rock, proto punk.

dude

>It is.
no it's not, projection is when you place your own insecurities and mental processes onto someone else.

you just revealed you that you know jack about music.

>music by people who can't play their instrument and play randomly

at least half of the people you were referring to were classically trained, and their music was very much not random

o shit waddup

>The difference is that art music can be appreciated
In what way? You mean analysis of harmonic structure?

Skill does not imply anything to do with musicality. Did Beethoven or Liszt played every single thing in the orchestra? No, but they still wrote for it. Similarly an electronic musicians writes MIDI for different synths, and the computer plays it. You could say it's an unromantic approach, but it still produces music, that most of the time can't be reproduced by classical instruments normally.

(You)

He's one of "those" people

Doesn't it feel great to have all this attention? I mean, damn, all those replies with all those words and not even a single one strongly proving your point, huh? All those buzzwords, all those empty statements clearly just made to piss people off and make yourself fell high and mighty. Wow, takes a lot of skill to be that autistic. I bet you're the life of every party, man.

Seriously, just answer someone's god damn question about what you consider "art music" or even good music. Hell, just give your fuckin top 10, stop beating around the bush so we can just dismiss your shitty, pretentious, pseudo-intellectual taste and move on with our vapid internet existings

You're projecting your own illiteracy onto me.

Maybe some of them were classically trained, but they decided to ignore what they learned to fool illiterate morons like you into thinking that their music is something special.

For example. Another thing that can be appreciated about good art music is that its inspirations are not degenerate. Popular music is degenerate both in composition and in inspiration.

>Skill does not imply anything to do with musicality.
This is what people who think they're geniuses because they can play three chords on their geetah actually believe.

The composer is not the only part of an art music performance. There's a reason there are various different recordings of the same art music piece.

no

>For example.
Ah! As you can see one can do a harmonic analysis of pop music
recmusicbeatles.com/public/files/awp/awp.html

Thus pop music can be art. Enjoy getting BTFO

>You could do this yourself in less than a minute if you used google.
And by that I arrive upon the fact that art music is not a strictly defined thing and many people have their own conceptions of what art music entails.
I'd like to hear yours.

You realize no one will take you seriously when you start using words like degenerate

what do you mean by degenerate?

THATS WHY THE UFUCKIING THING IS BLANK YOU SPERGLORD AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>Video games are a commodity like pop music.
Video games don't have to be a commodity. Even if it is a commodity, that doesn't exclude it from being art.

Video games can be art when the intent is to create something artistic to be appreciated for its aesthetic value. It can still be a game, but that isn't its primary focus.

Usually video games made for that purpose tend to be both shitty art and shitty games. Only retarded fucking hipsters enjoy these art games, and even then only ironically.

Not an argument

Is this supposed to be impressive?

Educate yourselves.

Pop music is degenerate in every sense of the word. The fact that the word upsets you so much is a sign that you're a degenerate yourself.

It's regressive. Clasically trained composers wrote symphonies, pop musicians write repetitive verse-chorus-verse garbage.

>Even if it is a commodity, that doesn't exclude it from being art.
It does. Something that is primarily created as a commodity (art music is primarily written for artistic purposes) can not be art.

>It does. Something that is primarily created as a commodity (art music is primarily written for artistic purposes) can not be art.
Even if you're right, I guess you've never heard of free games then.

Dadawah - Peace and Love
The California EAR Unit - For Philip Guston
Basic Channel - BCD-2
Gas - Nah und Fern
Luciano Cilio - Dialoghi del presente
Evgeni Koroliov - Die Kunst der Fuge
Vladimir Sofronitsky - Sonatas
Pierre Boulez - Complete Works Opp 1-31
Alfred Brendel - Beethoven: Piano Sonatas
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy
Maurizio - MCD
Derrick May - Innovator
Nico - Desertshore
Built to Spill - Perfect From Now On

fuck you

Vidya isn't art because it changes according to the user's input, even if it's one of those shitty interactive movies.

>Is this supposed to be impressive?
Nice damage control

How does that fact fit in with the definition of art?

What you are saying is there exists different interpretations for a given score, correct? I would not argue over that, for that does make sense in the classical world but I could argue and say even pop music does the whole live performance thing even better. There are instances whereby the entire song is restructured, re-written or expanded. It does not follow a score and allows room for experimentation.

>been listening to music for a few months and think you're an expert.

One: lol you think you know how long you've been listening to music, becuase clearly you know all and would obviouslg be able to tell how long I've been seriously listening to music.
Two: when did I ever, ever say I was an expert on music? I don't recall saying that. Its al ost like you're making shit up.

Also you very clearly don't know what pop music is.

*obviously

Video games are toys for children.

Not an argument.

You probably think that live performances of pop music are genius because the performers smash their instruments and jump around.

If you had been listening to music for a long time, you would not be listening to pop music.

You claim to be an expert on music if you consider yourself qualified to choose the greatest achievements in music.

>Not an argument.
See You have yet to refute this.

And you probably think that first chair who played the solo so emotionally is absolute genius.

It's a joke compared to even the most basic art music.

>Video games are toys for children.
>"i know nothing about video games"

You don't even know the difference between game and toy, what a shock.

Define 'art'

>Video games are toys for children.
Not an argument.

Performers can be geniuses. Pop performers are not geniuses.

My sides, yes, I'm so uneducated for not wasting my time with children's toys. Please go back to your containment board.

Not relevant.

You said if can be harmonically analyzed (read "appreciated") then it's art.

As you can see, pop music is art.

>none of them know how to play their instruments
>okay maybe they do but they still suck lol

>the degenerate meme again without ever explaining what he means by it

>shifting the goalposts constantly

>replying to arguments with 'not an argument'

>things that are created for artistic purposes are art but only if i like them

>anyone who listens to music for a long time would listen to classical

holy shit you're the worst

Video games are toys for children, meaning that no one over the age of 14 should waste their time with them.
I'm sorry for assuming that you're intelligent enough to come to this conclusion by yourself.

>I'm so uneducated
Yes, this time you're right.

pic related, and
Pink Floyd - DSoTM (sit down, edgelords)
Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
John Coltrane - A Love Supreme
Peter Gabriel - So
Secret Chiefs 3 - Book of Horizons
Ween - The Mollusk

Not an argument.

>You claim to be an expert on music if you consider yourself qualified to choose the greatest achievements in music.
Well, what are your picks?

The performer probably didn't even wrote the piece he was playing. Essentially, he could forgo all knowledge of music theory and simply follow the composer's direction.

Music is not art. Debate me.

i contend that music is art as it is a means of creative expression through a medium.

A literate person can't appreciate pop music because it's simplistic garbage.

Not an argument.

Not an argument.

You might be genuinely retarded if you can't see the argument in my post.

I don't have favorites because I'm not a child.

>Not an argument.

>Not an argument.
Why would i need an argument if you can't argue anything from your ignorance?

Uh huh. Sure.

i'm glad we were able to settle this like adults, my friend

Playing a piece is art as long as it's an art music piece.

Not an argument.

I was KIDDING!

>A literate person can't appreciate pop music because it's simplistic garbage.
Not an argument

PS would you consider Alan W Pollack literate?
>Pollack holds a B.A. in Music from Brooklyn College and both an M.A. and PhD from the University of Pennsylvania in Music Theory and Composition. He was an instructor of music theory and composition at Yale University from 1975–1977. Since 1979 he has pursued a career in software engineering.

I'm not on his side but Liszt was one of the greatest pianists who ever lived and was primarily famous for his musical skills. He toured Europe playing the piano.

oh no!

You keep saying 'art music' without even defining the term. Art is not academic wankery as you seem to imply

>favorites
I asked what you think could contend for the greatest achievements in music.
Not your favorites.

You children don't seem to realise that you can't just say that something is not an argument because you don't like it.

Never heard of him, based on your description I'd say that he is literate.

I want this to go on until every single one of your replies is "Not an argument"

my bowel movements have visuals and are therefore art

Educate yourself.

Only an illiterate person could think that one could nominate a few pieces as the greatest achievements in music. You probably think that music started in 1910.

But how could you even argue back if you know nothing about video games?
There are already videogames done by adults aimed for adults

If an orchestra plays a rendition of a rock song, would you consider it art?
I know about that. He was great at the piano. But I don't recall Liszt playing every single thing in the orchestra, but he still wrote symphonies. He still wrote for instruments he didn't play.

immense waste of good digits

>you can't just say something is not an argument because you don't like it.

like you've been doing all day?

>jackson pollock is literate
waheyyy, now google him

You probably won't have to wait long because we're hitting non-argument levels that shouldn't even be possible.

>Never heard of him, based on your description I'd say that he is literate.
But he wrote the articles here harmonically analyzing every Beatles song.

If you've never heard of him, did you not read the articles? Maybe you just don't understand music theory.

Not an argument.

>Only an illiterate person could think that one could nominate a few pieces as the greatest achievements in music.
that was the idea of the thread, why didn't you state it earlier

>Educate yourself.
If you had educated yourself you would know that art is an incredible broad and discussed term and you can't use it so strictly without giving the definition you're using first.

There are no video games created for adults, they're created for manchildren.

No, because rock is popular music.

A literate person can use their education for something useless. Many pop songwriters are clasically trained. Their music is still worthless.

I did read the article, I did not remember the writer's name.

Is that what your liberal arts prof. told you?

It was an observation, not an argument.

If you're a junior in high school

>There are no video games created for adults, they're created for manchildren.
How would you know? back up that fact.

Not an argument.

Not an argument

There are instances whereby some rock music can be more harmonically complex than classical music. What do you say of that?

It seems that you children are starting to resort to subjectivism by claiming that facts are not arguments. I honestly see no reason to continue arguing with you. Maybe you'll realise why you're wrong after you finish high school.

>What do you say of that?
I say that what you're saying is simply not true.

Art is not determined by whether or not the focus material has 'visuals.' Whether or not something is 'art' is determined by whether or not there is meaning, assigned to it either by an artist or its audience.

Not an argument

>EVERYTHING I SAY IS FACT AND I DON'T NEED TO BACK UP ANYTHING I SAY.
Leave then if you don't know how to have a discussion.

Would you say that the song in the first video is more harmonically complex than the second video?

youtube.com/watch?v=oAHRp7jjaOg

youtube.com/watch?v=_w8SY_9yO8k

Music? Trout Mask Replica, Faust, Rainbow in Curved Air, Rock Bottom, White Light/White Heat, Ocean Songs, Well Oiled, Music from the Penguin Cafe, Hosianna Mantra...

music is not real art if we're being honest