All metal is bad because it's edgy

I dont like metal for the same reason i dont like rap. The vocal delivery is bad or off putting. It has nothing to do with lyrics

Edgy or not, Pretending to growl like a demon is embarrassing and cringey

and pretending to have a speech impediment or a mental disability isnt? because that's essentially all that rap is nowadays.

also, why does everyone care about vocals so much? that's only like a small fraction of what the music is.

>look at The Death of Marat, or the works of Goya, or Francis Bacon. Edgar alan poe, basically any Shakespeare.
The difference is that they're not as shallow, it doesn't use dark themes to hide unoriginality, which is something a lot of bm bands are guilty of. Not that every one does it.

>something a lot of bm bands are guilty of
sure. but there are also a ton of great ones too. i'm not saying everything with dark themes is good, i'm just saying you shouldn't dismiss something just because it's dark.

bump

fuck off edgelord

sage

rude and unnecessary. also you can't sage anymore

go back to your hugbox fucking edgleord. no one cares

who gives a shit

the less people that like metal the better

it was better even on the internet before all the fucking black metal tweens took over

edgy is a dumb way to dismiss something but screamins and sounding like you drowning isn't that entertaining to most.

seems like i really struck a chord with you user

>edigness is not inherently bad in art
I agree. Wish more people saw it this way.

>screamins and sounding like you drowning isn't that entertaining to most.
that's totally fine. everyone is entitled to their opinion. all i'm saying is edgy is a dumb way to dismiss something

nu-Cred Forums, ladies and gentlemen

OP stole this from a thread about death grips earlier.
You fucker.

i guess because of your 'edge'. lmao rekt piece of shit

>i dont like it so its BAD

>also, why does everyone care about vocals so much? that's only like a small fraction of what the music is.

Literally what leads the song. It is a pretty big deal.

I love metal, but not when it has death growls. I can appreciate that it takes a lot of skill to do them but I just hate them, sounds like gibberish to me. Shame, because a lot of that type of music has good instrumentation.

If Linkin Park is edgy then all death metal and black metal are... Well, they are fucking edgy. I lack a word to describe how edgy they would be.

the original user that posted it is right though

>vocals lead the song

not every song, dick

>Literally what leads the song
it all depends on the song. in most black metal harsh vocals are just a textural element and a way to highlight certain parts of the music.
>Shame, because a lot of that type of music has good instrumentation.
i guess that's why i think vocals don't matter as much. the instrumentation is really what you should be paying attention to in music. it's where the most is actually happening (unless of course you're listening to hip hop)

serious question: are you dumb?

Most of them, or at least they have parts where the vocals lead. Even in bands where there is a lot of solo masturbation like Dream Theater have parts where the vocal leads, even if it is followed by a 3-year long solo.

Not always. If I wanted instrumental music, I could listen to actual instrumental music. If they have vocals, they usually lead the song at some part and therefore they are important, even is it's not break-or-make important.

Personally I just can't stand growls. It breaks any amount of enjoyment I could get from the harmony or instruments, and sounds too harsh. Then again... that is probably how some stuff that I hear sounds to other people.

"nu-metal"

nu-metal isn't all bad though, Korn's debut and SOAD are pretty great desu I think

>Personally I just can't stand growls. It breaks any amount of enjoyment I could get from the harmony or instruments, and sounds too harsh. Then again... that is probably how some stuff that I hear sounds to other people.
well to each his own. i don't really like deep growls much either. that's why i tend to stay away from death metal.

also, i'm not huge on harsh vocals in general, but usually the music more than makes up for it for me.

Saying metal is edgy bcause it uses dark themes i s like saying all horror movies are edgy

>all horror movies are edgy
i'm pretty sure most people believe this user

it's all just way too corny (or should i say korny) and formulaic for me to really get behind

only if you choose to think it is.

I can take harsh vocals up to a point. I like how Marco sings in Nightwish and Tobias sometimes does that in Avantasia, but only if it isn't abused and if it isn't too deep.

Like you said it's just taste. I will never understand normie music nor extreme metal.

Korn's debut and other early nu metal albums aren't really that formulatic apart from some of the songs having choruses.

>Korn's debut
i guess i'll have to check that one out. i really haven't explored much by them aside from singles. but those were enough to turn me off. i know scaruffi likes them but i really only agree with him about half of the time

>all alt metal is bad because i fail to embrace "distastefulness" as a part of art

are you talking about nu-metal?
if so, it wasn't intentional distastefulness. it was just straight up pandering to a demographic and making awful-sounding, over-compressed radio abominations with shallow, juvenile lyrics. i mean just listen to this youtube.com/watch?v=Hm7vnOC4hoY

whoops meant to respond to

Why is this used as a bait copypasta? It's not wrong.

see

I've never listened to metal beyond the entry level stuff like Metallica, Ghost, and Iron Maiden. Where's the best place to start with the genre?
>tldr: huge pleb

which singles did you listen to?

a lot of their stuff past Untouchables isn't that good, I can't understand why somebody wouldn't like Falling Away From Me, but I think that song is fine, got to give it credit for being a noise rock song that got as popular as it did on the radio stations.

Korn's debut is like the drumming style from Primus or King Crimson mixed in with the riffs from Ministry

depends what kind of other music you enjoy and what stylistic qualities you like in music

but in general, black sabbath is always a good place to start

>Korn's debut is like the drumming style from Primus or King Crimson mixed in with the riffs from Ministry
that doesn't sound bad at all. i can't stand the vocals in ministry but i'll be damned if they don't write some good riffs

yeah honestly i just tried it and instrumentally it sounds alright but i just can't get past the crunchy super compressed production with that weird hiphop-ish modulation, the moaning vocal fry singing, the silly lyrics, or the whole clean/quiet verse into loud/angry chorus schtick that basically every nu-metal band follows. i guess it's just not for me

>Thrash/ Classic
Black Sabbath- Paranoid
Dio- Holy Diver
Judas Preist- Painkiller
Megadeth- Rust in Peace
Slayer- Reign in Blood

>Death Metal
Morbid Angel- Altars of Madness
Death- Leprosy
Carcass- Heartwork
Behemoth- The Satanist

>Black Metal
Mayhem- Debut Album
Burzum- Burzum
Immortal- At the Heart of Winter
Emperor - In the Nightside Eclipse

Other
Dream Theater- Images and Words
Helloween - Keeper of the Seven Keys pt.1
Venom- Black Metal
Pantera - Cowboys from Hell
Manowar- Kings of Metal

>Behemoth- The Satanist
>death metal

really? it's totally black metal though.

same Korn debut is the only nu-metal album that I can somewhat tolerate. But the voice is unbearable this is what people must feel like when they complain about extreme metal's vocals.

eh, yea not really death. It's just a really good album that has elements of death and black.

>It's just a really good album that has elements of death and black.
true that. i'd definitely still recommend it to anyone who's into either of those genres. it's one of my favorite workout albums. gets me so pumped

>this is what people must feel like when they complain about extreme metal's vocals.
damn that's a good point

>awful-sounding, over-compressed
that's most of modern metal tbqf

>pandering to a demographic
that's most of music tbqf

>linkin park
>metal
Cmon bro

wtf does hip-hop have to do with metal?

nu-metal like rage against the machine and linkin park is better than newer metal tbqh

ooo edgy

>Literally what leads the song
Jesus fucking Christ, when did Cred Forums get this pleb?

What the fuck are you doing on a music board? You goddamn idiot.

both have weird/remarkable vocal deliveries that put some people off.

the difference is that with hip hop, the vocals are the main part of the music, and the actual musical element is always just some simplistic 4/4 beat looped for a few minutes. with metal, the instrumentation/composition is the main part of the music and the vocals are just another layer in the big picture

>People caring this much about vocals
Just goes to show how little this board actually knows about music.

HA, do none of you actually appreciate the death/black metal vocals? As an avid listener of the genre I grew an appreciation for the vocals. Like a red wine it must be savored and appreciated. The taste is not for all plebs.
Come back when you grow some taste fags

>fedora meme
Just as lazy and baseless as calling something edgy. That's a funny pasta though

The only sane reply in this thread

>Shakespeare
>Edgy
Time to leave.

I don't think people say that all metal is bad because it's edgy, because plenty of hip hop is edgy too and people still get into that. Even at the beginning of the decade, Odd Future was huge and they just did shitty horrorcore. From talking to friends, it's the vocals that turn them off really. They can usually dig the instrumentals, but they really just don't wanna hear any screaming.

This is actually true, metal as a whole is an acquired taste because its inherently anti conventional by its nature.

But then again its the same way for any genre that you arent used to. It took me awhile to gain an appreciation for jazz, noise, and rap music too

Basically, anyone that writes off an entire genre without actually having attempted to listen to it a little bit is a huge faggot and doesnt deserve an opinion

young thug isn't edgy you idiot

There's plenty of metal with clean vocals

There's also plenty of metal that doesn't have dark or edgy subject matter

yeah that's how it works retard

"its simple we laugh at the haters"
-jared leto wannabe; in denial about his manchild hobbies for 5 years in a row

>why are normies so close-minded, no one liked it when i played death grips at a party :(
>all metal is cringey, edgy shit for children, I listen to thinking man's music like indie pop and meme rap

what do Cred Forumstards mean when they do this?

The problem isn't that metal is edgy. The problem is that it's edgy in the most unauthentic manner possible, in the teenage edge kind of way.

> butthurt metalfag detected

Go listen to some formal music you pleb.

Yeah but most people don't really look for music that isn't easily available and it's much easier for the radio and other media to push "chill" music. I'm just saying that even the people I know who like stuff like Black Sabbath, Metallica, Iron Maiden, any of the really big metal bands from the 70s-80s, really don't wanna listen to any black or death stuff (in fact they probably don't even know the difference) and that's the type of metal that seems to get jerked off on the most these days.
You would actually be surprised how easy it is to get "normies" into DG.

>I have never listened to metal

Okay friend

I have. It's basically just misanthropy for the sake of misanthropy. Literally just bland shock value. The instrumentals are pretty decent for the most part though.

metal is absolute garbage

this

Edgy was not too long ago a good thing and a compliment to someones tastes.

In this case edgy would be used to describe people who try too hard to be cool, in which case metal and most metal-heads are edgy, and this is bad.

I could say to you that metal is bad because it's made by people and for people who try too hard to be cool and it would be the same as me dismissing it as edgy.

If you like something but feel the need to defend it from others who don't like that thing or people who like it then you are what is called insecure.

tl;dr >>>/tumblr/

By that logic most people on Cred Forums belong on tumblr. Especially Cred Forums.

This is straight up ignorance. Displays of hubris witch such overwheling ignorance is absolutely disgusting. How do people do it? You must have absolutely no shame whatsoever. I've seen crackwhores asleep on bus stop benches with cheacp liquor laden vomit all over them more dignified than you.

Most extreme metal is neither misanthropic nor for shock value

At least you didn't compare me to metal. Thanks.

>basically any Shakespeare
Man, I accidentally cut myself when reading A Midsummer Night's Dream

i scream in my band by pretending to gargle OPs thick hot cum, then swallowing at the breakdown. Girls and twinks at uni think im edgy af

There are good growls/shreiks and bad growls/shreiks. I don't particularly Deathspell Omega, but Mikko Aspa's vocals are great. Varg Vikernes and Quorthorn also have great voices. I primarily listen to Hipster Black Metal, so I can't really recommend good Death Metal growls. Ultimately though, you start to appreciate the vocals and I find most clean vocal metal to be incredibly cheesy.

>let me remind all of you that "edginess" is not inherently bad in art
>art
You're discussing a genre in recorded music, not art. Music is music, art is art. There are instances of something being both but that doesn't mean that everything from one column belongs in the other. You may as well call Jeff Koons' Balloon Rabbit a music.

>there are plenty of dark pieces of art that are considered to be a masterpieces today
[citation needed]
Also, edginess isn't a factor, something is a work of art is it is made for the express purpose of being one while having a concept and communicating it without any superfluous elements whatsoever.
I realise you just finished your first week in college studying the humanities, but you've not got half a clue.

>the reason why most people today are so opposed to it
is because the majority of output within the genre is horrendous and wrought with thematic nonsense. There's also the subculture of fat metallers who haven't heard anything recorded since 2002 that everyone gets put off by.

There's plenty of good metal and it is discussed here often enough - Sunbather was discussed to death. If something is purely just edgy then it is perfectly valid to write it off. Vapid shit should be scoffed at, mate.

>all art is paintings n drawings n shit
Are you clinically retarded?

>>There are instances of something being both
You're the retard, mate.

>all art is paintings n drawings n shit
paintings are paintings, drawings are drawings, shit is shit, going for a walk is going for a walk, vomiting is vomiting, videos are videos, getting shot is getting shot, buying the rights to an anime character and setting her free is buying the rights to an anime character and setting her free... All of these things have also been art as well, but not every endeavour in the medium qualifies as art by extension.
You lumpen pleb, dilettante, kibitzer, et.c.

>he doesn't think music is art
Jesus Christ man get off this board

That post literally says music can also be art, mate, you might want to go learn how to read before trying it out.
Anyway, music is music and art is art. That's why they're different words. Are you one of those fags who uses the word Art instead of 'thing'?

>music can also be art
music IS also art. sculpture and art are different words too because sculpture is a specific kind of art. same shit for music.

>sculpture is a specific kind of art
No, it's a medium. Are you actually this stupid?
Art works have been made in literally every medium imaginable, even combing your hair. The act of combing your hair isn't "a kind of art" though.

Music is music. A work of art can be made through music, but not every example of music is a work of art. It's really simple and really obvious and it applies to every medium.
You're using the word art instead of the word medium like those dipshits who call an aesthetic an 'art style'.

Do you even know anything about Art at all? Why would you even bother trying to discuss it? If you can't even name a living Art practitioner then maybe it's best you not throw words around like you know half a shit about them.

>something is a work of art is it is made for the express purpose of being one while having a concept and communicating it without any superfluous elements whatsoever.
okay let's break this down for a second.

first of all, who the hell are you to lay down the parameters for what makes something art? the definition of art is something that philosophers have been debating since the dawn of man. unless you can somehow scientifically prove that you're right (you can't), then your definition is of no more value than what a 5-year-old child has to say.

second of all
>without any superfluous elements whatsoever
so you've based your entire mindset off of some random rule that you made up that all art has to follow.

also, even if this was an actual criteria that all art had to meet, superfluousness is a completely subjective quality. so once again you're no authority on this, and you're in no position to declare what is and isn't superfluous.

> the majority of output within the genre is horrendous and wrought with thematic nonsense
once again, you're asserting you're subjective opinion as fact.

>There's also the subculture of fat metallers who haven't heard anything recorded since 2002 that everyone gets put off by.
that's completely irrelevant

>sunbather
ew wtf man

basically you're a psuedo-intellectual blowhard who's condescending everyone and trying to pass off your opinions as concrete facts, when in reality, you're no more right than anybody else. time to get your head out of your ass you arrogant douche.

dude, first of all you're an asshole. just because you studied art, doesn't mean that you can just come in here and start condescending everyone you're trying to have a discussion with. you don't know everything, and you're coming off as an insufferable prick.

>Art works have been made in literally every medium imaginable
sound is a medium. making music is arranging sound waves in the same way that painting is arranging colors and shapes, and sculpting is arranging three dimensional forms.

sound is a medium, and when someone intentionally arranges it into music, that is making art.

>first of all, who the hell are you to lay down the parameters for what makes something art
I didn't lay anything down. I have been working with Art in the Art world for years and happen to know what I'm on about.

>something that philosophers have been debating since the dawn of man
Philosophy isn't that old, you might mean the dawn of culture and even then you'd be wrong. Art has had a progression in it's role and it's role alone. The only arguments about its definition are between the bourgeoisie (who want to buy decor and call it art to look smart) and the actual practitioners.

>you've based your entire mindset off of some random rule that you made up
No, I'm just educated on the matter and not some trigger moron

>superfluousness is a completely subjective quality
No it's not. Something is made for a purpose - to communicate an idea. An element that distracts from this idea is superfluous.

>you're asserting you're subjective opinion as fact
no opinions presented at all, actually. The majority of anything under any category is average or below. That's how these things work. Metal has been buried in an image forever and the vast majority of it is busy trying to appear like it belongs to that image.

>that's completely irrelevant
No, it is a legit reason why metal has a bad reputation.

>ew wtf man
So you're a pleb or baiting

>basically you're a psuedo-intellectual blowhard
great arguments, I like the part where you literally made no points at all. Good work proving you know nothing about Art.

>just because you studied art
Nice assumption, mate. I'm not "condescending" anyone, I'm responding to a post factually within a discussion. I'm knowledgeable on a subject - it being my career - and am making a correction.
>you're a prick because you told someone they were wrong
This isn't a hugbox, mate.

>when someone intentionally arranges it into music, that is making art
No, as I already explained.

autism

Metal is moronic and devoid of taste and depth by default.

Basically the only way to get any sort of appreciation for metal is focus on the more niche and idiosyncratic genres of it(black metal in particular), and even then you're pretty much forced to accept its intellectual and emotional vapidity and approach it from an (inherently pretty disingenuous and condescending) outsider art perspective, which is more effort and more mental gymnastics that I can be bothered to go through for the sake of listening to embarrassing manchildren scream about Satan and play comically over-the-top and self-serious rock music.

Basically if the core of a thing is inherently shit and inherently dumb, then that thing will always remain shit and dumb no matter how much ornamentation you put around it, no matter how many excuses you make for it.

Metal can't be separated from its own core signifiers and definitions any more than any other music or any other form of art in general, which is why it also can't ever become something good or something that can be approached in a genuine and sincere fashion.

When you approach metal with the aim of getting some enjoyment out of it or some appreciation for it you either have to pretend to be dumber than you are or you have to be genuinely dumb. I just can't be arsed to do that.

t. actually autistic person

Wow user!
You sure killed the conversation with that post!

So then who is the ultimate authority on what art is and isn't?

There is no such person, what type of question is that. Art has always meant the same thing.
There's been a role change for sure. The whole thing is born from prehistory where communication was done through cave paintings and sculpting - then the spoken/written word replaced it. Works were commissioned to communicate stories in time were literacy was reserved for the upper classes. Eventually everyone could read and then invention of the camera removed any need for documentation to be recorded within the realm of art-making.
There was a hiccup when the middle-class, wanting to emulate the wealthy and buy 'art' as decor as a symbol of status, bought into a market of decor titled 'art' to trick them into buying it and so Duchamp turned a urinal upside-down to make fun of them.
That's a brief version of all of art history up to about 100 years ago.

If you use art the way people in this thread have then you're the same as the middle-class goons buying drawings of chickens in a misguided attempt to impress each other; trying to show off by claiming to 'know about art' when you can't even name a living art maker.