If the second wave of black metal had kicked off today, instead of 25 years ago...

If the second wave of black metal had kicked off today, instead of 25 years ago, do you think they would still attack Christianity or Islam? Is the Islamic religion more influential and more accepted in today's world? Does it play a larger role than Christianity?

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Anti-Islamic Black Metal attack when? It's about time.

it's already happening
Taake
Seeds of Iblis
Bolzer

to name a few

Time to record a black metal demo and go fuck with my local mosque.

The fact that black metal ever existed still blows my mind. Like, were these guys ironically edgy or did they legitimately think the lyrical themes, atmosphere, and stupid makeup was all dope shit? It seems so unlikely that such a large number of grown men, in complete sincerity, adopted this "scene" and all of the nuanced and arbitrary edginess that came with it.

I respect and somewhat enjoy the music itself, but holy fuck, everything from the individual artists to the aesthetics to the lyrical themes makes black metal so hard to take seriously.

>bolzer
???

It started out as a fun, secret club situation. They would hang out in the basement of Helvete and drink and watch horror movies and shit. Sort of like Fight Club, it evolved into Project Mayhem (no pun intended) Euronymous became more and more distanced from reality after Dead killed himself, and it all spiraled out of control. It didn't help that Varg was a fucking sellout and made it a global phenomenon. It was all fun and games in the beginning.

>implying varg isnt an og

Apart from a handful of guys no black metal musician actually thinks that he's a warlord from Mordor or someshit.
But they still take their art seriously.

When you go watch Mad Max 2 do you scoff at it because you think Frank Miller is a stupid guy who believes that mohawk barbarians roam the Australian wasteland to pillage gas?
No, you just enjoy the movie for what it is: fiction.
Black metal and its theatrics are mostly just that. Don't come at it from the perspective of a hip-hop backpacker who wants everything that's sung to be "real".

Euronymous and Varg were both very strong, very toxic personalities, but their views differed greatly. A clash between the two was inevitable, and the better man won.

>implying anything in hip-hop is even real
It's all fake. Putting on makeup and spikes and leather is fun. It's a form of escape. When you're on stage playing black metal, wearing your black metal attire, you can cease to be day to day yourself, and become somebody else. It's role-playing, and some people in the early 90s took it way too far. Plain and simple.

I know that all hip-hop shit is fake, but there's still a bunch of idiots who think it's real, and a bunch of rappers who sell themselves as that. And that's why, unlike black metal, it focuses entirely on "real world" topics and avoids fantastical themes (although that's changing, fortunately).

>it's a form of escape
arguable but yes, it's role-playing, that's why I brought up a movie as an example.

It's not so much that I think they believed the lyrics were real, and that they were vessels of satan, or were as batshit fucking crazy as Dead. It's more that even the theatrics seem really fucking stupid to me. And I love theatre, including musicals, so I'm not adverse to theatrics. It's just that the "theatrics" of black metal are really shallow and immature, and put up this huge barrier between me and enjoying the music. Past that, I just find it lame as hell that frontmen would sing in some gay raspy voice about satan and think it's cool.

What counts as mature and deep theatrics in your opinion?
What should they pretend to be in order for you to take them seriously?

>It's just that the "theatrics" of black metal are really shallow and immature, and put up this huge barrier between me and enjoying the music.
Weird, for me the music is the barrier that keeps me from enjoying the music.

>What should they pretend to be in order for you to take them seriously?

Musicians pretending to be things is pretty fucking cheesy no matter what, but a good place to start would be not singing about the occult and satan despite not actually fucking with any of that. Just comes off as edgy, and I get that in the 80s and 90s that being a fake satanist wasn't the same flavour of edgy as it is today but this is my retrospective view.

Okay so in that case MacBeth is a silly play because none of the actors that currently play it actually believe in ghosts.
Movies about slavery are silly because none of the actors in it were actual slaves at any point in their lives.
David Bowie pretending to be an alien from Mars is silly because he never went to space.

>cheesy
>edgy
How can a guy who enjoys musicals (not even opera, straight-up musicals) even use these words seriously?

You keep making comparisons to plays and movies, but those literally require people to play characters.

Musicians don't have to play characters, and frankly I think it's virtually impossible to pull off. Bowie barely pulled it off it, and honestly I really could care less for his image and roleplaying. Ziggy Stardust is a great album musically, and I could really care less about the lyrical themes of it. The good thing is, it's not as aggressively geeky as singing about satan or titling a song "Jesus' Death".

In that case it's not a matter of "deep" and "mature" characters, it's just you not being able to tolerate the notion that musicians can also do a bit of acting at the same time in order to enhance the experience.

Different dude but those are all pieces of art about interesting topics that are not super cliched and also have things like complex stories attached to them or at the very least are not trying to be extreme or scary or super dark and brutal they are just telling a story about or pretending to be whatever they think is interesting. Which yes is the same thing that black metal is doing I guess, but I can understand why people look at the makeup and costumes and the attempts to seem tough and scary and think that it's silly and immature, compared to Bowie having a buzzy backstory about being a funky alien from Mars. Also Bowie a) was unique in the image and concept he chose, all the metal dudes just do the same shit as each other b) didn't base his entire career on the same thing and c) with him the creativeness and quality of the music always came first

well the black metal of today is pretty secular and only goes after something if its just for the image

Can you explain how the "theatrics" of black metal enhance anything about the experience of listening to them? Do you resonate with the imagery, themes, or lyricism? Do you like the characters they play?

I'll give you slavery but ghosts and aliums are just as silly as satanists, and no amount of complication (and there are black metal bands with ridiculously complicated concepts) will change that.
And MacBeth is edgy as fuck by its century's standards.
And Bowie had a shitload of copycats, the only difference is that the movement he spawned (new romantics) was short-lived enough to only let him be remembered.
And creativity and quality are vague bullshit terms.

I'm going out on a limb, but it sounds to me like you were force-fed the "everyone who tries to look scary, even if it's just for pretend, is actually a huge pussy" meme that circulated a lot in the 2000s as a reaction against mallgoths.

Yeah. Fuck yeah I do. It's a neat little spectacle that matches the music perfectly.

You got music that sounds like it was recorded in a cave and made by illiterate orcs.
The guys dress up to look like illiterate orcs and take pics of themselves in caves.
What more do you need?

Holy shit Euronymous was a manlet.

Anti islamic black metal is a thing.
youtube.com/watch?v=gtOYL4cqg2A
Straight from Saudi Arabia
>they would be jailed or executed if they're caught
Brass fucking balls lads

>varg
>better than anyone

louis cachet detected

They'd attack classcucks

my dudes

also, if we go by islamic years and look at history, the time for a secular/progressive revolution paralleling the one in the christian middle ages is nigh, so get ready for more of this in your lifetime

SHOTS FIRED

>still talking shit about the guy you murdered after 20 years

savage af 2bh

Dood check out the NWN forums. Plenty of anti Islamic black metal out there.