Don't get the hype over 2 though, the good bit only comes after sitting through 40 minutes of extremely boring stuff.
Juan Peterson
how do i into wagner? is he worth listening to beyond the meme overtures and preludes?
Cameron Watson
Yes.
Just go for the Ring cycle. If it's not for you, then Wagner probably isn't for you.
Lucas Wilson
Guys, that was kinda disappointing.
Jordan Powell
This. What is your favorite recording of his /classical/? Yes. Listen to Tristan and ignore He's a faggot. Try a different recording, the performers there are old and far past their prime.
Julian Jones
Tristan is great but I honestly believe that if you can't sit through the Ring cycle at least once then there's not point 'attempting' Wagner. The most difficult thing about it is setting time aside to watch it since people don't often have the attention span if they're just watching a recording (as opposed to a live performance).
Sure you can watch Tristan, Parsifal or Meistersingers if you want mature Wagner in a slightly more bitesize (if you can use the expression when speaking about Dicky W.) sample, or else Tannhauser, Lohengrin or Hollander if you want early Wagner.
Or you can watch Rheingold and if you're interested in continuing, you'll likely end up doing the cycle anyway. If you decide it's not worth it then, as I say, Wagner probably isn't for you.
Blake Rodriguez
and by early period I mean the stuff that is better than 'true' early period Wagner like Rienzi
If you want to listen to the ring it's better to just break it up over a course of a few days. Wagner himself didn't expect anyone to marathon through all ~14-16 hours of it.
Wyatt White
Yeah that's what I meant. I didn't mean sit down to watch all four back to back. Maybe that wasn't clear.
Watch Rheingold. If it interests you then you'll probably watch the rest of the ring to find out what happens. If it doesn't, then I doubt you're going to watch Tristan and become madly in love with Wagner.
Carter Gutierrez
recs for powerful, soul-crushing vocal works?
Robert Bell
Give me an example so I know what you mean
Carter Richardson
Mass in B Johannes-Passion Matthäus-Passion Trauerode BWV 225 - 230
I know the first two, but will check the rest, thank you.
Parker Thompson
I'd start with Tannhauser. Maybe his most accessible.
Austin Edwards
Can anyome rec some pieces that features melodic/haunting/beautiful music? Something accesible. I'd glad if anyone could name a few, I'm new to classical. Thanks in advance.
Rly? I'd say that's Parsifal. Tannhauser is filled with lots of exciting music (especially at the start), it deals with immediately relatable themes, and it's only 3 hours long, which is short for Wagner.
Alexander Fisher
WHY ARE WAGNER'S "OPERAS" SO FUCKING LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
WHO THE FUCK IS THIS MUSIC MADE FOR? NEETS? THOSE ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE WITH ENOUGH TIME TO DEAL WITH THIS SHIT.
Adrian Cooper
alright
well tell me about parsifal then
David Richardson
Stop listening to slow conductors.
Cameron Baker
Reminder to join the dubtrack room if you want to share pieces and listen together:
Well, I've only seen it once, but it's pretty slow, and probably Wagner's weirdest opera (not even sure it should be called an opera). It's one of the most moving musical experiences I've ever had, though.
Jaxon Carter
>Bach Passions B Minor Mass Easter/Christmas/Ascension Oratorios Lots of cantatas that I can't be bothered to list at the moment. Just listen to one every Sunday (corresponding to the Lutheran church calendar) and have a good time >Barber Prayers of Kierkegaard >Bartok Cantata Profana >Beethoven Missa Solemnis 9th Symphony >Berlioz Requiem >Biber Missa Bruxellensis >Brahms German Requiem Begrabnisgesang Gesang des Parzen >Brian Gothic Symphony (part 2 involves the choir) >Britten War Requiem >Bruckner Te Deum >Cherubini Requiem (C Minor) >Gorecki Symphony of Sorrowful Songs (bit of a meme but it's popular because it's soul-crushing and powerful. Or something) >Handel Dixit Dominus >Haydn Missa in Angustiis Missa in Tempore Belli >Humfrey O Lord My God >Liszt Christus Via Crucis >Macmillan St John Passion St Luke Passion Seven Last Words from the Cross >Mozart Requiem >Penderecki Symphony 7 Hymne an den Heiligen Adalbert >Pergolesi Stabat Mater >Poulenc Stabat Mater >Purcell Funeral Music for Queen Mary >Rachmaninoff All-Night Vigil The Bells >Schmidt The Book with Seven Seals >Schoenberg Gurrelieder >Shostakovich Symphony 14 >Sibelius Kullervo >Stravinsky Oedipus Rex Symphony of Psalms >Szymanowski Stabat Mater >Tavener Song for Athene God is with Us All-Night Vigil (Veil of the Temple) Annunciation Funeral Canticle >Vaughan Williams Sea Symphony O Lord Thou Hast Been Our Refuge Flos Campi The Pilgrim's Progress >Verdi Requiem >Vierne Messe Solenelle
There's a start for (mostly) choral stuff. Solo stuff is another question.
Jace Robinson
when did you see it
Benjamin Gutierrez
>Cello edition You damn right, motherfuckers.
Gimme your best cello concerto, Cred Forums. Show me what you think you got.
Zachary Walker
autism
Evan Kelly
A few days ago. I watched the Horst Stein version on DVD.
Christian Sullivan
It's all about cleansing of Christ from sinful Jewish blood, and timpani's "sound of annihilation" in Act 3 embodies the annihilation of all Jews.
Connor Murphy
Wagner had originally wanted it to be for the working man. He would build a theatre, set etc. Sell cheap tickets to workers who would come to see the cycle and then burn down the theatre with all the sets/props as well as the music+libretto. The political philosophy of the Ring is pretty fascinating really.
>timpani's "sound of annihilation" in Act 3 embodies the annihilation of all Jews
...are you sure?
Nathan Collins
What are some essential classical organ pieces?
I've gone through a lot of Bach. What else?
Jaxson Powell
Franck, Grigny, Vierne, and Messiaen
Pretty much the French desu
Chase Moore
Oh, I've listened to a lot of Vierne, too.
I've listened to Messiaen, but not much organ stuff. Will do, along with the others you suggested.
Joshua Lopez
well you could trudge through some more entry level trash as suggests, or you could move on to Tournemire and Buxtehude
Anthony Martinez
mendelssohn, reger, buxtehude, bruhns
add durufle, karg-elert to the neo-impressionist composers.
is widor meme yet?
James James
I've already posted one long list of pieces so here's a pastebin to avoid more of the same. Not 'essential' by any means (and performances grabbed mostly at random from what I could find on youtube) but it's got stuff by a lot of the important organ composers.
I know, just that his F maj. Toccata is kinda like the moonshine sonata III mvt. of organ pieces.
Juan Harris
Thanks, user.
Ethan Jackson
I'm trying to remember where I read it, but I did encounter somebody arguing that that Kundry's fate at the end of Parsifal (i.e. she dies, but is no longer under the curse of being a cunning Jewish jezebel controlled by Klingsor) is wholly incompatible with the Nazi antisemitism with which Wagner is often associated.
Really wish I could remember where I read it because it was an interesting argument. Definitely wasn't Adorno or Shaw, but those are the only two books on Wagner I've read recently.
This essay steadily goes from a strong stoic neutral opening to a complete disaster of a finale. Music is great for revealing how healthy or sick a thinker is.
Selective theology isn't interesting to me. We know what Cosima thought. We know what Wagner thought. A fragment from a work doesn't overturn this.
Jaxson Brooks
would wagner vote for trump y/n
Noah Nguyen
Brahms and Buxtehude.
Bentley Cruz
No, you don't do justice to his era if you think it can be transplanted onto our times. Anti-Semitism was common enough among the 'left-wing' then. It's probably an injustice to call Wagner a political-party person at all, he was a Parisian artistic rebel. His equivalents today are people who are too strong to care about political garbage like Trump/Clinton.
None of this implies Wagner was a good person or musician.
Carter Young
>His equivalents today are people who are too strong to care about political garbage like Trump/Clinton. Lol. Yes. "Strong" people don't care at all about "political garbage" like the future of humanity.
Lincoln Robinson
Please fuck off back to Cred Forums
John Hernandez
And here we are talking about Wagner instead of the pseudo-strongman politicians of his time. Fuck off back to Cred Forums like the other user said.
And no, I'm not using Cred Forums as 'le right-wing are idiots' meme, I'm telling you that it is literally the place to discuss the low culture garbage that is mainstream politics for this website.
Elijah James
>In dealing with Wagner's anti-Semitism, we should always bear in mind that the opposition of German true spirit versus Jewish principle is not the original one: there is a third term, modernity, the reign of exchange, of the dissolution of organic bonds, of modern industry and individuality [...] Wagner's attitude towards modernity is not simply negative but much more ambiguous: he wants to enjoy its fruits, while avoiding its disintegrative effects - in short, Wagner wants to have his cake and eat it. For that reason, he needs a Jew: so that, first, modernity - this abstract, impersonal process - is given a human face, is identified with a concrete, palpable feature; then, in a second move, by rejecting the Jew which gives body to all that is disintegrated in modernity, we can retain its advantages. In short, anti-Semitism does not stand for anti-modernism as such, but for an attempt at combining modernity with social corporatism which is characteristic of conservative revolutionaries. >And what about the final call of the Chorus 'Redeem the Redeemer!', which some read as the anti-Semitic statement 'redeem/save Christ from the clutches of the Jewish tradition, de-Semitize him'? What if we read this line more literally, as echoing the other 'tautological' statement from the finale, 'the wound can be healed only by the spear which smote it'? Is this not the key paradox of every revolutionary process, in the course of which not only is violence needed to overcome the existing violence, but the revolution, in order to stabilize itself into a New Order, has to eat its own children?
Really makes you think
Noah Hill
Why do you think I'm from Cred Forums? I'm voting for Jill Stein, btw.
Wyatt James
Would he vote for Trump tho. His politics are relevant to his music.
Jose Turner
facts.
Easton Martinez
Everything of his is enjoyable except the 7th symphony, in my opinion.
The two final Piano Trios, last three Sonatas, Quintet, late lieder, etc. Usual Chamber music suspects.
Weirdly enough I don't really like his 9th Symphony like I used to.
Grayson Barnes
No, because he wasn't a United States citizen.
Noah Johnson
No. For one, the aristocratic/royal patronage of the arts is gone. How would Wagner get funding?
Trump would gut orchestras and the arts. Trump doesn't give a shit about that stuff. Also, Trump's an idiot, and Wagner was a lot more intelligent than to follow someone like this.
Going through his lieder and the moment and discovering some nice stuff. D852 (and 875A); D193; D737; D770; D853; D882; D800; D756; D843; D902; D932
Favourite of the song cycles is probably Schwanengesang, but I'd imagine I'll be listening to a lot of Winterreise in the coming month. Der Hirt auf dem Felsen is one of the best things Schubert wrote. D930 is quite charming Symphony 9 is definitely in my top 10 favourite symphonies, if not my top 5 Haven't listened to enough of his string quartets to have much of an opinion beyond I quite like Death and the Maiden Piano Trio no. 2 obviously Arpeggione Sonata F minor fantasia for four hands D960; D760
Jason Cook
>mushroom man
when will this meme die
Zachary Brooks
When CLT does
Cooper Perry
im not a cellist but, looking across the orchestra from the violin sections. the way theyre able to jump across the fingerboard.. its pretty remarkable.
Lucas Ward
Ah, that makes sense.
Elijah Rodriguez
The cello has one of the widest ranges of any instrument, and they often make full use of it.
It also has the privilege of being the greatest soloist instrument for that reason. A cello can speak in any voice worth using.
Liam Gray
Smetana's Vhyserad tho, holy shit
Jason Sanchez
>It also has the privilege of being the greatest soloist instrument [citation needed]
Nicholas Reyes
The probably means after the piano.
Adrian Nelson
*harpsichord
Parker Reyes
>two skeletons copulating on a tin roof in a thunderstorm
Jack Lewis
*organ
Luis Carter
I am unironically a Mahlerian.
Nolan Myers
what's wrong with Mahler
Jackson Parker
Wagnerian aesthetics.
Jace Williams
Nothing, hence my being a Mahlerian unironically.
Nolan Anderson
what's wrong with Wagner
Jaxson Gonzalez
Decadence, as described here >Thus Wagner’s music is a failure in all three dimensions of musical order: melody, rhythm and harmony. And the failure stems from the adverse use of music, to inflate the sentiments attached to scenes and characters that do not really contain them. To put the point directly: the defects of form stem from defects of content. Because the content is faked, so is the form.
Elijah Richardson
Anti-semitism
Jace Stewart
post float-y piano music that sounds like God is talking to you
The article explores that (although curtly). The article explores that.
Hudson Brooks
>Nietzsche was a hack philosopher now Cred Forums hates on nietzsche?
Brody Perez
What was the greatest use of classical music in video games?
My vote goes for Civilization 4 (especially the modern era).
Eli Hernandez
Personally I've never felt as if the sentiments of his music or scripts were over-inflated or exaggerated to the point where it feels 'faked'.
The only thing that really felt closest to that were some of the eye-rolling and forced re-cap scenes that parts of the Ring had.
Adrian Morgan
>playing video games past the age of 13
wew
Jordan Mitchell
kys
Aiden Cruz
Decaux's la mer from clairs de lune scriabin poeme op 32 no 1 or op 17 no 3, sonata 2 (you probably know these) youtube.com/watch?v=KNTxhXTrDl0&t=2m44s John ireland decorations frank bridge dew fairy or sunset urmas sisask op 24 sonata for 4 hands sabaneyev op 1 no 2 emmanuel's 2nd sonatine , 3rd sonatine mov 1 and 2, 5 mov 3 and 5,
Asher Ward
>civ 4 I turned off the ingame music once I started to get sick of Beethoven's 6th.
Dominic Young
Well discussion of those sentiments is beyond Cred Forums (although they are challenged in the article), as Wagner's thing was a 'total art'. But what about the musical elements? 'Endless melody', 'floating rhythms', disingenuous harmony are associated with physical repulsion or sickness. Wagner's usage of each contradicts the established idea of what is pleasant and fluent, without justification. In fact, since they arise and complement physical processes, they shouldn't even need rational justification: >Music is not a conceptual idiom. All attempts to assimilate the organisation of music to the organisation that we know from language are, it seems to me, doomed.[13] We understand music by moving with it, and what we understand is not a thought but a ‘field of sympathy’ into which we are inducted by the music as we are inducted into a ritual by the gestures of a priest. Dance is the primary form of this collective movement, and dance has a place in religious ritual for that very reason. If there is corruption in the music of Wagner it must be found, therefore, in the musical movement. In this Nietzsche is right; and he is right to question the melodic, rhythmic and harmonic organisation of the Wagnerian idiom in those terms. What kind of human being is it, that the listener is invited to ‘move with’ in this music? In surrendering to this movement am I surrendering something of myself that I should be withholding?
Kevin Long
It's still a good question, faggots. Sure, finding something meaningful in video games is like searching for a needle in a haystack (almost every single video game ever made is dumbed-down nonsense for children or mandchildren), but it doesn't make sense to not even acknowledge that there is something meaningful there.
Andrew Mitchell
shut up
Zachary Cruz
shut up
Jose Hall
Tetris.
Jonathan Morgan
Interesting you bring up repulsion or sickness, since, supposedly, Wagner was purported to have composed after his numerous migraines. Siegfried in particular is supposed to be indicative of this. Though personally I have never made the connection until I had read about it.
Apparently his migraines were so numerous and crippling to his art, that he felt the need to implement it in some form in regards to his music.
>The first scene of act 1 of the opera Siegfried provides an extraordinary concise and strikingly vivid headache episode. The music begins with a pulsatile thumping, first in the background, then gradually becoming more intense. This rises to become a directly tangible almost painful pulsation. While the listener experiences this frightening headache sensation, Mime is seen pounding with his hammer, creating the acoustic trigger for the musically induced throbbing, painful perception. At the climax, Mime cries out: “Compulsive plague!” “Pain without end!”
Grayson Robinson
Wow, interesting.
Christopher Flores
Well, this is certainly weird. I can't say I'm very "in-the-know" in regards to period performances, but I do like Staier.
Has anyone heard his recent release? The Scherzando from D. 929 is played in a way I've never heard before, utilizing additional instrument ornamentation in what sounds like a tambourine and some other instrument I can't really make out. Weirdly enough it doesn't appear to have a credit for this at all, as it only lists the pianist, the violinist, and the cellist.
Here's an excerpt: a.uguu.se/feHQOLfXmPN3.mp3 Can anyone identify the additional instruments being utilized?
Hunter King
>schubert
FUCK OFF
Robert Smith
:(
Logan Hill
Nietzsche was a poet and the herald of the 20th century. Ascribing such a filthy word as 'philosopher' to him is vile.
Ayden Stewart
Is Domenico Scarlatti elite?
Blake Lopez
Yes. All baroque is elite.
Liam Torres
>watching Nice meme. I'm hearing my Wagner with a text translation companion ONLY
Nicholas Watson
What's some essential "Juden’ raus!" music?
Sebastian Flores
> and then burn down the theatre with all the sets/props as well as the music+libretto. What would be the point of this?
Jackson Adams
That has nothing to do with music though
Joseph Adams
i'll sound like a pleb but can someone recommend me classical pieces similar to the soundtrack of harry potter movies?
>inb4 back to Cred Forums
David Gutierrez
You might enjoy the music of such feted composers as John Williams and Hans Zimmer
Gustav Holst's The Planets, paritcularly Mars and Jupiter
Josiah Thompson
thanks, what symphonies in particular?
Sebastian Taylor
All of them really.
Jacob Nguyen
Prokofiev's Lieutenant Kije suite has moments that are somewhat similar
Isaac Brown
>all those deleted shitposts from just one person Wew buddy.
Brody Kelly
mods = gods
Lincoln Wood
Mahler 1, 2, 5, 6 Shostakovich 7, 11, 12 Prokofiev Alexander Nevsky and Lieutenant Kije Suites Martinu 1 and 4 Symphonies, double concerto for piano and timpani
>Marriner is kill >Hogwood is kill >Leonhardt is kill >Harnoncourt is kill Well I guess we all know who won the authenticity wars now.
Thomas Long
He's substantially younger than most of those, not a fair comparison
Josiah Sanders
Turns out that they were all playing on period bodies when big Dick T. was using the modern+improved version
Grayson Clark
Who are the best HIP memes?
Thomas Morales
Very odd. Doesn't seem like there have been many reviews yet so nobody commenting on it, but that is very strange.
Aaron Jackson
I don't dislike it at all, but I would like to know the rationale behind it. Given that Staier is quite the HIPster, I'm sure there has to be some good reason for it.
But, yes. No reviews just yet. Except for the utterly worthless Guardian review which barely says anything about the music at all except the usual buzzwords, and, for the most part, just repeats what the album summary is on the back cover.
Who cares what the grauniad has to say about anything? LOL.
Dominic Ortiz
What does the score say?
Caleb Ortiz
Well it certianly doesn't call for anything other than a violin, cello, and piano.
Easton Nelson
Yeah I didn't realise how awful that 'review' was until I went and reread it. It has half a sentence about the actual recording, the rest is just telling you stuff about the score. I almost suspect the reviewer didn't bother listening to it.
Anyway, I made an account to make a provocative comment so we'll see if we get a response.
Michael Howard
I would upboat you but I don't feel like making an account
Robert Johnson
After listening to a couple other recordings, this one actually sounds better with the extra punch added by the percussion at the sforzandi. The others sound a little dead in comparison, so maybe that's the reason.
>all competitors die after one another This really makes you think.
Jordan Fisher
>having to explain to your flatmates that you weren't watching porn with the volume turned up but were actually listening to Berio's "Visage"
Hudson Nguyen
viola da gamba
Lucas Wright
the story of shostakovichs life is almost as amazing and interesting as his music. great taste.
im glad everyone in these threads is more receptive to 20th century composers now. i remember like a year ago trying to discuss ives and shostakovich here and getting all kinds of nastiness and negative opinions.
Mason Ramirez
What is your opinion on Testimony?
Zachary Adams
thats too bad user. you really are missing out. the man wrote a wide variety of pieces, in all kinds of different styles and tonalities. perhaps you just havent heard the right stuff yet.
Landon Gutierrez
mem
Kevin Diaz
it's an anti-HIP conspiracy
Dylan Davis
Hey stopping to say that English tenor Thomas Round died yesterday at the age of 100.
Tom was very active in the D'Oyly Carte opera company as well as the rest of the opera and gilbert and sullivan world for much of his life.
He died at the age of 100, his 101st birthday was coming up.
Got a free ticket to an open rehersal of Mahlers 6th symphony conducted by Rattle should I skip work and go?
Brody Anderson
That's because most of the trips that dumbass anons used to listen to were complete faggots and recommended awful shitty obscure Baroque and classical composers
SDF is probably the most based, I wish CLT would come back though. Calcium is a hit or miss
Hunter Hernandez
Go for it. It's a pretty difficult work to conduct, apparently. Should be interesting.
Cal is funny.
Jackson Wilson
Do any of you have any guilty pleasures outside of Classical?
Adam Price
Is this a good entry level piano? I have a keyboard and hate that damn thing but I don't want to save up for something that's $10k
Imagine spending most of your life involved with G&S. Don't think I'd wish that on anyone
Anthony Hernandez
>I thought you should always avoid most used pianos. Where did you read this? Used pianos can be perfectly fine. Just play it, and make sure each key works, and check that it's reasonably in-tune (of course, you'll need a tuner, but if a key is incredibly out-of-tune, it might be a red flag that it will never keep its tune).
People give away perfectly good used pianos for free all the time. Even an old spinet will be better than any digital piano.