Anyone else a socialist here?

>ban muslims
>bomb muslims

chose one

fucking crapitalist americunts

No. I like the idea of sharing fruits of your work with others, but i am strongly against any state doing said sharing. I and only i will decide who i will help and who not.

Fuck socialism.

The state doesn't necessarily have to do anything with socialism, but I see your point

>better dead than red commie fag

Doesnt it? We right wingers are often lead to belive that socialism is about evil state taking your money and giving it to the poor. (Which we dont like because its involuntary and ineffective. Also, corruption.)

What do you understand by socialsm, if it dont require state?

get your state sponsored helecopter rides here

Social democracy > Socialism

No, fuck communism.

socialism ≠ communism

Frankly, social democracy seems to me like faggy middle way without courage to stick to your principles. Social democracy is soft and spineless. It has no philosophy, no principles and will to anyting that seems ad hoc beneficial.

Which i cant respect. I can respect comminust, that will take your money, for they admit they will do that. I can respect capitalist, that will try to maximize their earnings and doesnt really care about you. But i cant respect social democracy.

Just my opinion, though. If you hold different views, feel free to share.

(Almost) politically illiterate user here. I sympathize a little with socialism but I have a few questions...

Like, if everything belonged to government... How could government know what every citizen needs?

You can vote for fascists just once and they like combining politics with aesthethics, now read something about the ideology of mussolini and mosley before spouting buzzwords you dont understand.

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Socialism is essentially the believe, that the workers of a society should be in control of the means of production in a democratic sense. So pretty much applying democracy to the production means of production.

It doesnt needs to know, it will try to satisfie the collective with varrying sucess and disregard the individual.

Rolling for this ancap

So far it seems to be the best working model, taking best of capitalism and socialism and making sure that everyone has at least something. Personally I'd say it's more pragmatic, but I get how one could view that as cowardice. But I'm not a very idealistic person and it's the model that has been shown to work in the real world, so it's what I can fully support.

Only someone who doesn't live in a socalist state and/or is filthy rich, thinks socalism is good

How can it satisfy the collective if its members are not satisfied?
Isn't it illogical, like filling up a couple empty buckets with water without filling each one of them with water?

I'm pretty sure that's Dick Cheney. Yeah, it mo def is.

social democracy in its early phase tends to be quiete ballsy because it had to overthrow some scaryass illiberal system to come into existance, but degenerates quickly into compliciancy and all its problems after that if wealth is achieved.

Ah.

While i think that would be inefficient, i have nothing in principle against things being owned by workers.

What i see as problem, though, is the way from current system, to one you propose. Should workers save their salary and buy the factories, it would be great. But i dont think that's going to happen when switching socialism, will it?

is there an example of an country who managed to achieve wealth and keep it with this system?

Its just that though, a belief. Its horseshit in reality.

Well, most western european countries, i guess. So far at least.

As everything is centralised in favour of the state you have the tools to raise the people so theyre as equal as possible in their needs and aspirations.
Thats why socialist societies often raise their youth in the same militant fashion as it was the case with the fascists.

But doesn't diversity make us stronger?

which one? i'm european and everything here is completely down the shitter:

crime, poverty, social tensions, debts, all orchestrated by moron politicians

Someone needs to travel more. Compared to most of the world, we are in a pretty fucking tip top shape.

The Scandinavian countries are good examples (Denmark, Sweden, Norway...)

I am not saying its going well. Only that its still going. And that social democracy havent "crashed". Yet.

On question, though - do you think things you mentioned are comparatively worse where you are, than in other parts of the world?

yeah you should travel and see europe. it's heavily glorified at this point, especially in america where people are looking for something new & exotic to replace their own broken system with.

Yep, but we suffer from the disintegrating effects that other user lamented.
Society always prefers the option that is most comfortable in the short run and few people here would give their life for social democracy should a great foe try to take it.
I know this is still heaven on earth only topped by the swiss and maybe australia/new zealand, makes it all the more infuriating that it does not look as if it will stay that way.

"Socialism" is just a fancy word for living in a civilized country.
>Went to public school? You're a Socialist.
>Drive anywhere on roads? You're a Socialist.
>Use the internet? Welcome to Socialism.
If you don't want to be Socialist in any way then move to Somalia.

For the rest of us the question isn't yes or no but what degree of Socialism you are willing to accept in your lives.

>Social programs
>Socialism

Having publicly funded components does not the means of production in the hands of the proletariat make.

>Denmark

Denmark is based as fuck and one of the most stable and happiest countrys on earth.
Shouldnt compare it with multicultural sweden.

you serious? i live in sweden, it's like a fucking warzone: shootings & riots on daily basis. even had one thug gunned down on my street as a part of a gangwar that's going on in my part of town.

Socialism/ social democracy FTW!

I never grasped the concept why a street sweeper should earn less than a manager. Both contribute their skills to society and are equally important for the well being of the whole.Contribute and you shall receive.

Swede here. Sweden only went to shit after it became more liberal.

Sweeping streets is generally easier. Most managers could easily sweep streets, but not every sweeper could manage company.

It really isn't. Don't buy into the Cred Forums meme. And even if it was, Sweden isn't social democratic anymore.

because sweeping streets doesn't require an special set of skills.

if you could make the same money as an pilot by sweeping streets, then why would anyone be a pilot? the education is long and tedious, and one of the incitements of pushing through it, is that you can make more money than a sweeper.

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Yeah, its known you were basically the closed thing to an utopia on this planet 2 decades before.
>more liberal
You mean the social justice like liberalism and not the laisse faire kind eh?

Because you need to invest more to make a manager instead of a streetsweeper.
Within reasonable boundarys inequality and meritocracy are a great and completely normal way to handle things as long as you dont want the cubafication of your country.

Fucking bourgeoisie

castro pls go

Only if that socialism is national

Also the SJW of liberal, but mostly liberal in it's original sense. Keep in mind that liberal is considered right-wing here.

>that i'm an nazi and go to Cred Forums
>kek.wav
sadly, it is that way (unless you're rich and can afford to avoid the ghetto no-go-zones). and all the racebaiting going on doesn't help either:
>nazis wants war on immigrants
>immigrants wants war on nazis
>media just wants race war to sell headlines

Hail

Im still wondering if the sjw shit is a vehicle push us to give up safety nets and other national "privileges" in order to achieve a more liberal economy or if the more liberal economy we are heading to is a consequence of the sjw shit making the old ways unaffordable and killing the social fabric that enabled their maintenance.

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True, you need a different set of skills for sweeping streets than to mange something, however, if no one is sweeping the streets it will become quite nasty.
Right now the incentive is greed, once you move past that there is no reason to devalue any form of contribution to society.

I do know its an utopia right now, doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue it anyways or give up on it.

I live right next to the ghetto. I've seen riots. I know that there is a problem, but usually it's no fucking warzone and it never leaves the ghettos.

Who in their right mind would get into a Nazi shower?

Maybe it is, my dude, maybe it is.

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>ML
purge yourself

democratic socialism anyone?

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Out of curiosity - how old are you? Have you worked in your life? I dont want to offend you, but my views on charity, hard work and money changed quite a lot since i got job. I just wonder what are you basing your opinions on.

and i also live next to the ghettoes, seen riots and it's always a warzone and it's not contained there.

those very people has started to move outside their territories. that's why my neighborhood is dead after dark. no one dares to go out after dark, with all the drug sellers & gangs roaming the streets

sure
löntagarfonder 2020!

/when Cred Forums dosen't know what socialism is

Vilken stad?

Göteborg

European Socialism lads, you should try it you yanks, vote Bernie.

"Löntagarfonder är ett jävla skit, men nu har vi baxat dem ända hit"

Aha, då är jag inte förvånad.

youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs

>feldt
>socialist
????????

I'm 30. I'm attending University right now and worked in the past years to afford studying without working. I live in Europe, even though education is more or less free, I need the money to afford housing, food etc. Working on a major in Philosophy.
So yes, I have worked, and not in high pay sector.
I base my opinion on my personal experience and philosophical knowledge. I guess I qualify as an Idealist, but i accept that the ideal might not be met and we need to make certain compromises in order to achieve progress.

Me is socialist, brat

folk har börjat flyttat från mitt område, och det trots att kommunen gentrifierar allt dom orkar. och buset från biskopsgården har börjat leta sig hit i jakt på personer att sälja droger till, vilket går väldigt bra då området är fullt av hipsters. paradoxalt nog...

youtube.com/watch?v=o2jnX2y30DE

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nazi punx FUCK OFF

the Jews kill them

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not very socialist of him to get rid of military and pussify the pissed off workers

I see. I am idealist as well, but i believe monetary reward to people working more difficult jobs is fitting - it motivates others to choose the difficult job as well. The price mechanism is there to show us what is needed.

And if the said street sweeper can afford housing and food, i dont really feel pity for him.

Nevermind. Good luck philosophizing.

thanks, have fun in your job. The great thing is, people can have different opinions and yet have a decent exchange of thought.

no because im not 15

I heard they tried socialism in Venezuela.... how is working out for them ???

How did the Venezuelan workers seize the means of production?

Kek says every intermediate socialist until they realize that's what they actually want.

kek you illiterate leftists are ridiculous, socialism has been implemented over and over and it always failed, and your argument is: "oh but thats not REAL socialism..."

Why can't you answer my question?

National socialism is the only acceptable form of socialism. Stallin's communism was total shit, caused a famine. The form of socialism practiced in the west doesn't work; you can't tax wealthy multinationals, they're free to bank and pay taxes overseas.
Socialists are retarded because they think the rich will pay for everything, when in reality, if you take away their means of production and their incentive to work, they become poor and stop producing.
Hitler appealed to nationalism, and didn't cripple businesses and farms like the Communists did. In addition, the multinationals who paid no taxes at the time were Jews.
Nazism is the only acceptable form of socialism.

>National socialism is the only acceptable form of socialism. Stallin's communism was total shit, caused a famine.
Well, Hitler's nacism caused quite a big war. Also, the holocaust thing was pretty unfortunate, IMHO.

the "venezuelan workers" did seize the means of production, Maduro's government nationalized several industries like food distribution (and much of the economy was already controlled by the state anyway thanks to Chávez)

I have this idea I came up with and I have no where to share it: Socialist-like governments are more effective in colder climates.

> Human psyche changes in cold climates in order for maximum warmth
> humans in cold places will form packs in order to survive the cold
> they develop a collective mentality
> do everything as a group
> No one wants to be kicked out of the group or else theyll of cold
> work/live as a team
> oppose strong leaders, instead they support a system in which everyone is equal
> they fear a strong leader will have the power to kick those who disagree
> because of this collective mentality, everyone sort of tolerates each other
> no one dares to do/say anything wrong bc of fear of getting kicked out
> this explains why people in swden/denmark/findland/russia are quiet and distant
> collective mentality explains why cold cities have more apartment buildings.
> tldr: cold climates hardwires human minds to progress as a group

>holocaust

still less deaths than communism caused.

It's not about everything belonging to the government. In effect, socialism is the workers controlling the means of production, rather than a select few at the top profiting from the workers while fucking them over. All the other shit, with socialized healthcare and such, is government policy, not necessarily socialism.

kys

Yes, but with libertarian leanings as well.

Legalize psychedelics (as well as MDMA, MDA, MDE) and weed

Single-payer health care with no copay works well and saves everyone money

Nationalized Public Transit is cheap and awesome

etc.

If you are older than 25 you're most likeky a retard.

That seems fair enough. Personally, I like the idea of socialism, and feel in an ideal world communism is also a good idea, but we don't live in an ideal world, so communism gets fucked over the second anyone tries to institute it. Look at Prague Spring. The Czech government tried properly instituting communism, and promptly had its shit kicked out of it by the USSR.

communism had advantage at staying around longer time, though. And while you can attribute lot of those communism-caused death to human mistakes, you cant do the same about holocaust.

On the other hand, capitalism is better suited for warm climates:

> Humans will tend to separate from one another in warm climates or else they'll be easy pray/or die of suffocation
> still live in small groups, but not huge collectives
> humans will separate from the pack to look for food, fish, hunt, etc.
> if they move as a collective, they will be easy pray
> this is why humans in warm climates usually live in houses, separate from each other
> heat excites particles
> because of distant relationships with other humans, humans from warm climates tend to express themselves more
> negroes, latinos, southern spanish/italians will be proud of their culture and expose themsleves
> people from warm climates tend to be more confident, assertive, and active
> privacy is not a concern for warm climate humans
> capitalism allows the individual to decide for himself and not depend on a collective
> explains why venezuela and cuba are socialist shitholes
> socialism is not effective in warm climates

After WW1 Germany was forced to pay absurd reparations, and its' borders were redrawn. Many Germans now in neighboring countries were persecuted, Germans in Poland were being killed, so Hitler intervened.
Both Hitler and Stalin had an agreement before attacking Poland together, but Britain only declared war on Germany.
Communism had a bigger death toll, and IMHO the holocaust didn't happen on big of a scale as 6M, but because normies tend to accept that, I would put it into perspective, the Americans starved a couple million surrendered POWs, Britain killed several millions of Germans by bombing cities (civillian targets) at night.
In the Soviet Union, 6-7M civillians died of famine and disease, 10M due to war crimes.
The allies fought the wrong enemy.

But workers would probably control those factories via some proxies, wouldnt they? Since i have my doubt they would spent their time managing the company instead of working. Then they could just as well elect some government to control it.

Or not?

Please, put me in contact with your managers. Every single one I've ever had was an incompetent retard, or else had no sense of how a business actually works.

Socialism is for pussies. I'm for equal stateless society lead by the workers, not the government and police. I'm for communism.

Communism caused death wasn't a mistake. It's what Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Chavez, Lenin and all the other red bastards wanted.

National Socialism is the unity of your people. Its not to blindly follow the leader. It's to connect with your own people and your culture. To help your own kind. Do you like what Europe has turned into? Its infested by immigrants from far off cultures who bring nothing but ill for the white race. The leaders we have today tell us to live in shame just because we we're born white.
The white race is now a second class citizen even when in majority.

I think the jews were just playing the victim card, typhus killed many jews and there's little evidence Zyklon B was used to kill jews; it was a de-lousing agent.

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Oh to be a freshmen again.

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Yes, I'm not one, there are many of us! And we will crush you!

Kek

Yes, right here

I'm all for equality under the law, and equal opportunity through public schooling for children.
Equal results however is fucking retarded.
From personal experience in a union environment, workers slack off because getting fired is basically impossible.
Not all people are equal; some work harder than others, some people are retarded, and there's no way they should be paid the same.