Wow! We just spent..... 2 billion dollars to take this picture!

Wow 1 dollar to every person below the poverty line is so worth it!
Billions of dollars are jack shit on a national scale let alone a world scale, it's better it was spent on this rather than the 600 billion every year on america's military or the 1 trillion america's government alone spends on having a not even good healthcare system.

Pretty sure it's the inside of a tornado

I'm pretty sure it's a vortex at saturn's pole.

Only 2 billion dollars, it was definitely worth it.

what kills me is that the money isnt even well spent. we go to afghanistan with a supreme opportunity to take oil, and instead the CIA (fact by the way, google up) chooses to turn a blind eye to the hufuckingmongous poppy fields for big pharm to keep making pain pills, and the obvious heroin explosion since

I'd rather science over military spending to stop some dune coons blowing themselves up

*tips*

I hope we got something other than the picture... like a deep space probe or telescope.

Did we get something other than just a picture?

Kek

This. The army loses this amount in the fucking couch cushions during war. I think we can live with a bit being spent on furthering human knowledge.

And to anyone who thinks the space program has been nothing but a boondoggle, throw away your phone, computer, anything to do with GPS, etc.

Fucking short sighted zeros.

>And here you are sitting on your computer

Is that supposed to be shameful? What kind of computer-shaming sandnigger nation are you from?

You cheeky rascal.
Underrated post

IT'S THE NORTH POLE OF SATURN.

>not supporting space funding is supporting wars

That's how stupid you are.

if people just stopped breeding they wouldn't starve anymore.

People bring the shit on themselves. Space exploration is the only future humanity has other than complete annihilation. We must explore the stars at any cost.

Is this that picture?

The real black hole picture? The first image a black hole that isn't an illustration?

100% worth it, that's sheer beauty.

this took me all of about 30 seconds to figure out... how the fuck do people not know how to use google...

I'm more annoyed those dumb bastards went there to take oil fields and didn't actually take them but just forced a new government in that would trade with america
A million people are dead because trade relations weren't great and you haven't even made it unlikely to happen again.
Also there is no way to stop drugs, and the only way that effectively and safely reduces drug use is giving them away with compulsory therapy.
It sounds stupid and expensive, but so is the war on drugs which was useless because it ignored the law of supply and demand.
You can;t eliminate supply without increasing demand and if demand increases, drugs can sell for higher prices, and when drugs are expensive, it's profitable to use lossy and unsafe supply and manufactury methods, and when something is profitable a business will always exist no matter how hard you fight it
America saw this exact same thing happen with alcohol, and all that resulted in then was expensive, often poisonous alcohol and a lot of american's killed.

A black hole absorbs light. Light can't escape a black hole. Taking a picture means light reflecting off of it hitting the lens.

You can't take a photo of a black hole, just the stuff around it. Here's a picture of the area of where a black hole is. You can see it sucking in shit but you can't see the black hole itself.

Also that's the north pole of saturn in OP's pic. It's wonderful. A bunch of earths can fit in that space. It's that massive.

>Geez, it's not like people are hungry or roads need fixing or anything.
Actually, it's not.
America has one of the highest obesity rates in the world. If anything, we've got the exact opposite of hunger going on, and it's time that we spend our money on other things.
Like that picture. Look at it. It's fucking BEAUTIFUL.

Googling really takes too much effort for some people, or they don't know about reverse image search, but its no big deal

Inspiration is priceless. Well, actually it's 2 billion dollars.

Always thought it was suppose to be hexagonal

sure? i thought the vortex around saturns poles were hexagonal?...

>political thread, okay here goes
>types up his two strongest opinions in politics he passively brushes over and doesn't really think about

I bet you repeat this shit all the time. "I don't like our foreign policies OH AND THE DRUG WAR [repeats what he heard off a documentary]

race pls

Two billion wouldn't get the roads fixed and you know it.

We spent two billion on this picture and a bunch of others, and also a shitload of data on the Saturn system as well.

>We just spent 2 billion dollars to take this picture
>Just
>2013
>>>/R/ETARD

Its just a really close shot of the north pole. Here's another photo of it where you can see the hexagon shape.

Fuck you compunigger. Go back to your calculus--lovin' shithole.

Imagine this sucking up the Earth

iflscience.com/space/new-telescope-array-set-take-first-picture-black-hole/

...

SO STONED I FORGOT THE FILE...

you think countries develope and learn by spending all their research money on trivial things like fixing roads ?

Thanks

neat

>found the cockgobbling hobo lover

That's fascinating as fuck if they can see black holes by combining radio telescopes. I can't wait to hear what they find in that data.

...

Well you're free to correct me, I do know what's wrong with america not annexing states it's captured but what's wrong with significantly undercutting the street price on drugs with safer products?
I promise to actually read anything you link on the matter even if it takes me longer than this thread is up

I'm a selfish person, that picture fills me with wonder. Fuck the poor people planets are cool.

...

>Afghanistan had oil that we knew of when we invaded
>and we even cared at all
Nope.

I don't disagree with you at all

the cassini huygens ended in 2005 and i dont think we've sent anything that close to saturn since.

2 billion to take a photo of Jupiter is far better than 2 trillion to bomb brown people every year.

>US priorities

>People are hungry
And?

1/10 bait for making me reply

Space doesn't work that way, and neither do hurricanes.
The earth would fall into it if anything due to saturn's gravity and since that is likely smaller than earth and there would probably be a bunch of gas and magma injected into it because earth isn't a rock it would probably be massively disturbed and might not ever regain it's shape after the earth falls through it.

>that they were bombing people like me in the streets for no reason doesn't matter at all
>because my life doesn't matter at all
This is where we disagree, peasant.

>What is comprehensive reading

OP starts comparing space exploration costs to people dying and infrastructure problems. user then compared space exploration costs to what the army costs. Seems like he was actually making a point and you are too fucking stupid to understand.

You, and people like you, are the main reason the US has wasted 70 years of abundance to war on drugs, terrorism and playing world police. Your nation is the root of every problem we face today. Capitalism has resulted in an ever increasing gap between rich and poor but its sold to you as the American Dream. Real life television has made people emotional, impulsive fucktards who only respond to strong words just like they do in real life television instead of rational thought. Creationism is of equal scientific value as theory of evolution. You hardly have a separation of church and state. You beat your chest and call yourselves tall but haven't won any war since WW2 and even that one you havent really "won". You call the US the greatest country on Earth but it hasen't been the greatest in ANYTHING except the number of incarcerated people per capita. It really fucking amazes me that you people eat the fucking propaganda machine daily about how great your fucking country is even though evidence says different.

I'm so sick and tired of you self-absorbed, narcissistic fucking Murifags fucking up the entire world without even noticing it or having any sense of self reflection about it. You find it weird and crazy that you now have two presidential candidates which are equally bad? I find it a logical result of a years of fear mongering and a failing educational system.

PLZ GET FUCKING BENT YOU BALD EAGLED FAGGOT

>2 billion

Or less than the cost of onr football stadium

There aren't many infrastructure projects that would cost less in america.
A house i guess, but not even some of those.

...

>but haven't won any war since WW2
I think they technically count that shit with the koreans a win.
It was a win for south korea at least

Yeah and government run social security, healthcare, and education all receive much more than the military.

Actually a lot of people hate america, at least military wise.
Even america's allies tell their kids of america's failures.
Just watch any british or australian program for long enough and they'll talk shit about america eventually.

Wouldn't it be cool if we just dropped a probe into a gas giant and took pictures along the way? Like, a mission specifically designed to take pictures, in various wavelengths, and gather all kinds of data on the way down.

It would probably have to be Saturn, like this pic, rather than Jupiter because Jupiter's gravity well is too deep and the upper atmosphere too thin for a parachute to slow down the probe. I hear that in both cases, the sky in the upper atmosphere would probably be blue like here on Earth, with some wispy water vapor clouds which would probably be familiar, and the more colorful clouds of gas below, like massive billowing columns that fade into the distance rather than falling below the horizon because the planets are so big.

Then we could see a bit below that and actually get a sense of what it's like. I mean, it's not high priority or anything, but what a way to satisfy our curiosity. The main technical challenge is making sure it can take pictures, process them, and begin sending data back to Earth before it gets destroyed by heat and pressure.

Govt: Ok Folks, we have your tax money. What would you like to spend it on?
People1: Infrastructure!
People2: Space Exploration!
Niggers: Gub'ment Sosshu Prorrams!
Govt: The niggers have it! Enjoy your free handouts and lottery tickets.

Both of those statements are retarded. None of this money was lost, it was just given to industry, to employ people, who will eventually spend it. So, nothing to worry about.

Salty yuropoors detected. Yikes.

Are.. are you kidding right now? I was comparing the sizes and you took it as if I said that Earth would survive inside Saturn's north pole. Why did you do this?

Next time I'll stop using analogies. Autistic people can't handle abstract thought.

Or they could just not take those tax dollars to spend on any of that shit.

...

I guess the point was that the massive vortex wouldn't suck up the Earth, Saturn's gravity well would, and that Earth would do more damage to the weather system than the weather system on its own would do to Earth. But really, Earth's fate is the same in either case: getting torn apart by tidal forces and falling into Saturn.

Galileo was a spacecraft orbiting Jupiter and they dropped a probe (which was also called Galileo) into Jupiter. It survived for a bit.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Probe

>Theoretical analysis indicates that the parachute would have melted first, roughly 105 minutes after entry, then the aluminum components after another 40 minutes of free fall through a sea of supercritical fluid hydrogen. The titanium structure would have lasted around 6.5 hours more before disintegrating. Due to the high pressure, the droplets of metals from the probe would finally have vaporized once their critical temperature had been reached, and mixed with Jupiter's liquid metallic hydrogen interior.[12] The probe was expected to have completely vaporized 10 hours after its atmospheric entry.[13]

>Before the atmospheric entry, the probe discovered a new radiation belt 31,000 miles (50,000 km) above Jupiter's cloud tops
>The probe detected less lightning, less water, but more winds than expected. The atmosphere was more turbulent and the winds a lot stronger than the expected maximum of 350 kilometers per hour (220 mph). It required a laborious analysis of the initial wind data from the probe to determine the actual measured wind speeds. The results eventually showed that wind speeds in the outermost layers were 290-360 kilometers per hour (80-100 m/s), in agreement with previous measurements from afar, but that winds increased dramatically at pressure levels of 1-4 bars, then remaining consistently high at around 610 kilometers per hour (170 m/s)

Jupiter is violent as fuck. I'd like to see us try this shit again. The gas planets are interesting as fuck and it's a shame we can't get near the fucking things.

Yes. Who needs infrastructure. We can just look to the private sector to step up and fix the highways and bridges.

You're really really really really really smart.

Taxes. Government. Hate? Somalia!

>abstract thought
That's not abstract thought, abstract thought is even considering the idea and results of earth falling into jupiter, what you were doing was proposing situation where the natural rules of the universe were subject to your whimsy, or to put it more topically you were "only pretending to be retarded."

I dont know why i said jupiter.
I really need to read over my posts before i submit them.

Yeah, unfortunately that one couldn't take pictures.

I think there was another probe that was dropped (mainly just to get rid of it) and was equipped with a camera, but the exposure wasn't set right (since it was meant to take pictures of objects in space) and no pictures were taken anyway.

i second this motion

North Pole of Uranus

FUCK YOU CUNT. ID RATHER BE IN SPACE LEARNING ABOUT THE FINAL FRONTIER THAN FEEDING NIGGERS IN SYRIA. IF YOU ARE HUNGRY IN THE USA JUST KILL YOURSELF LAZY NIGGERS

>conveniently glosses over the fact that Europe had all of its post-WWII abundance under the defense umbrella of the US
>and has even less to show for it.
Allahu Akbar, Phillipe

Imagine building an argent tower there

The concept of a Cloud City in the upper atmosphere of a gas giant isn't totally impossible. I mean, given current technology it's out of our grasp, but the general physics don't prohibit it.

Pressure differentials can be much more extreme than on Earth, so large structures could ride them like floating platforms on the ocean. Like I said, though, Jupiter's gravity is too strong to live comfortably on and pull that off, so Saturn's the next best thing. Much more comfortable gravity, and beautiful rings in the sky to boot depending on what latitude you set it up on.

It's not very practical, but maybe at some point in the distant future some people will actually be living on the "surface" of gas giants on big platforms floating on pressure differentials.

who gives a shit about those poor people.

>nothing ever gets done if the government doesn't tax people to do it.

Know how I know you've never done anything outside of a government school?

Is ok, USA. Go stop space program. Space is for China now.

Quads confirm wisdom.

I'm perfectly fine with money going to Science. When people refer to human progress over the centuries it's almost always a reference to the sciences. What's a waste of money is dragging behind you the luggage of the uneducated and unfortunate masses. Billions of them. Sure, they serve a positive purpose as a diverse gene pool but they aren't contributing anything directly, in fact they are depleting the valuable resources that might offer us even higher resolution photos of Uranuses.

you should go re look at those numbers. only 1 of those things gets a number close to the military budget, while education discretionary spending isnt even 1/10 of the military budget.

Your ifunny is showing.

god, the universe is amazing

i find it so hard to be agnostic, even though so much pain and suffering is allowed to happen

there must be an amazing creative force. and i look forward to meeting it when i die.

That's more accurate than you think, idiot.

You must be going out with a bang.

Haha, yeah like white southern states aren't the real leeches in this country. I say end the subsidies for them and let the inbreds die off.

For-profit/private schools are something. Things like infrastructure is another issue entirely. I'm sure Amazon will spare no expense in making sure the roads and bridges of the Greater Seattle Area are covered. So long as "no expense" means the lowest bidder.

And the rest of thee state? Well, they'll just have to make do.

Jupiter's roughly 2.5g is a significant difference in gravity to humans, but would be an ideal location for a high-gravity laboratory if run remotely. Throw some mice in there for a few months and record.

>military makes up 54% of government spending.
>we "waste" money on social security (which you pay a special tax into every year and actually makes money through the market if the government doesnt touch it for special programs) EDUCATION (youre a fucking retard for thinking educatiom shouldnt get more, but in reality they only get a small fraction the military does) and medicaid, which wouldnt be an issue if rich fucks wetent making bank off our healthcare system.

just the fact that 54 percent of the spending is military, means youre a fucking retard and dont understand that it would be impossible for the other 3 to be paid more.

I almost find it more awe-inspiring that all this stuff came to exist just as a result of the laws of physics. The beauty isn't inherent, but beings capable of observing and feelings something about the surrounding universe who also came to exist due to the laws of nature can find beauty in it.

OP's anus hole.

This. It's like foreigners never met a nigger or a politician before.

>supporting space means not fixing roads

That's how stupid you are.

I thought it was a close up pic of water swirling down a shower drain

i disagree

i think "god" is perfectly aware of the beauty it creates. and we are vessels to experience it.

but again thats just pure opinion. no way to prove it.

cgi space art

Pain and suffering is a necessary byproduct of change. Things need to die so that other things may be born. Even the great extinctions are just part of the sober routine. I *want* to believe otherwise but I don't think a creative force is interested in commiserating with us in the slightest.

He did say saturn which is actually 1.06g which is completely fine.

maybe it is interested in commiserating with us, and it does, by watching us, or seeing through our eyes.

its pure speculation on my part, but i think "god" lives through us. experiences its creation through us.

What I mean is that I find that particular picture more awe-inspiring and poetic. The idea of an intelligent being creating all this for us to find and be amazed by just kind of kills it for me. But that's just my opinion.

As far as facts go, it's pretty conclusive that none of the Gods of human religions are real. I mean, it's not completely disproven, but there's far too many contradictions to take any religion literally. But that doesn't preclude the potential reality of an intelligent creator which doesn't necessarily correspond to any religion. So like you all I can really go on is my opinion.

Even those can-and have-happened. It's just cheaper for companies to insist the government confiscate the land and tax its poor people to build the high quality roads and bridges for their commercial uses. That shit gets expensive when you have to pay the owners.
Go look at post-WWII Hong Kong. They wanted a tunnel under the harbor and asked the British administrator to build one.
He said that when they REALLY wanted one, they'd build it themselves with private money.
So they did.

I think we could agree that an intelligent creative force exists

whether it cares about the creation is another matter

this one cost only 1 x 10^-10 x 2 billion

>We just spent..... 2 billion dollars to take this picture

1/10
that's a bit simplistic, wouldn't you say.
space probes aren't single-picture throw-way cameras.

>I think we could agree that an intelligent creative force exists
No, that's the one thing we don't at all agree on, even slightly.

>whether it cares about the creation is another matter
I didn't even discuss this, maybe you intended to reply to this guy:

ok. so when i encounter people like you who think nothing is a thing, i just dont understand where you are coming from

like, how do think anything exists, us talking, for example.

just nothing being nothing?

> None of this money was lost

Haha, holy shit, this can't be real.

Hot man, i bet earth would CUM BUCKETS

i am fine with that. not a single cent of that money came from my pocket in any way or form

Suffering isn't necessary neither is pain.
Things need to die, to which i agree. But things don't need to suffer or feel pain to die.
Death isn't synonymous with pain or suffering.

>people are hungry or roads need fixing

cutting wood vs. sharpening the axe...

at some point you have to put maintenance aside and actrually work on something new and better. without NASA and its friends your modern life wouldn't even be possible.

burn

You're not American?

Diarrhea being flushed down in high resolution.

youtube.com/watch?v=TPnuw879WgQ

fuck you. god's an asshole.

If you can use the word nothing as a description, then the thing you are describing must exist in some form aka not nothing.

wont argue with that

but its also glorious

That's only discretionary spending, and military spending looks so huge there because its whole budget is discretionary spending. It can all be done away with at any time.
But its share of total government spending is actually much smaller than that.

nothing is a concept to describe the lack of

this is very basic stuff

you guessed right, just imagine how low the chances are. like 300 million to 7 billion! omg!

He's a degenerate that lives off the system and doesnt pay taxes. Just another nigger destroying thr welfare of Americans by being lazy.

Do you mean, that we come from nothing? That there is no inherit meaning to existence?

Because, as far as we can tell, we do exist, so we're not nothing.

>tfw no glorious Trek future

i never said anything like that

i think you got lost in the replies, somewhere

my personal belief is that a "god" exists, is conscious, and we are part of it. good or bad, thats another matter.

I just can't buy into the "as intended" thing. The implication is that human evolution/progress/direction may have been guided to reach this present state of consciousness and some sort of existential awareness. The other possibility I suppose is that our great all-knowing force just waited until it randomly happened. Now, an atheist edgelord I am not, as I do believe in a god in a vague sense but I do have trouble reconsiling the idea of a god who intentionally tweaks things.

The lack of what user?
"There is nothing in room 101" isn't literally true, otherwise the inside of the room wouldn't exist, There would be no room 101.

who said god tweaks existence?

maybe it just set the table and watched the unfolding action?

I'm not a hardcore atheist because I can't claim to KNOW that there is no God. But as far as what I BELIEVE, I don't think there is one.

That said, atheists don't believe that there's just nothing. The universe clearly exists. So what created it? The real answer is that no one knows, but it doesn't require an intelligent creator. "So nothing created everything?" Well, asking that is looking at the problem the wrong way. Obviously creation occurred. But it could as easily be the result of forces as non-conscious as gravity or electromagnetism, and doesn't require intelligence. The way galaxies, stars, and planets formed adheres to the way the laws of physics would have joined particles together under their own volition, no intelligent thought required. It could be said an all-powerful intelligent being sprung this into action, but that's just complicating matters needlessly.

"Who created the laws of physics, then?" We call them the "laws" of physics because it's our way of categorizing the way matter and energy behaves in the universe due to its own properties. Maybe it's just the way it is, and nothing had to decide which way it would be.

Then I pose my own question, one which I'm sure those who believe in a God tire of atheists and agnostics asking, but it is quite pointed: "Who created God?" It's pretty much a rhetorical question, because the answer is generally "God just is" or "God created Himself"... but it's essentially the same answer atheists may give for why the universe exists, but with one less step. An intelligent creator is not a solution to this problem because it either just keeps going back and back and back in an endless cycle of creation which never ends (which is the same problem the atheist model of the universe has), or the being just existed forever, in which case that's also the same problem the atheist model of the universe has. And statistically, the answer with less conjecture is more likely to be correct.

"why is there nothing" ?

I believe pain, suffering, attachment and loss are all part of the bargain, you can't perceive beauty without some attachment. Consciousness isn't free.

"why isnt there nothing?"

we cant figure out how time began
we dont understand how reality began
we understand some laws of physical reality but we cant understand why they are legitimate (meaning, just because 2+2 = 4, why should it be?)
all this stuff just is.

No, you didn't. I'm trying to deceiver your statement here > people like you who think nothing is a thing
What would define a thing in your opinion?
Does it need to be made by god? Does it need a purpose for it's existence?

He's right the idea that the money was turned into a rocket is simplistic farmer economics.
Hell that's not even fair to farmers, most farmers are quite well off businessmen.
The idea that money can be wasted is dependant on the idea that money has any value. money is only a go between that allows people to turn one type of work into another.
A scientist can buy a farmer's expertise at food production and both parties can do what they're best at.
The only thing that should matter in expenditure is if work can be turned in to greater work and that is all science is.
Well funded scientific programs often create technologies and procedures that find economic and scientific significance like insulation decreasing energy usage in homes and businesses and digital image processing which in medicine increased our diagnostic and research capabilities substantially.
Not to mention well funded scientific programs also give economic incentive for more students to seek out stem degrees and even if they don't get that job at nasa or even a scientific institution, they can take that knowledge base into other industries and this helps drive innovation in ways that are difficult to measure by simple profit margins.

This

I don't remember signing a contract, where i willingly allowed my consciousness to be ripped out of the void, just so i could wait 23 years to enjoy the greatest pleasure of a cigarette while taking a hungover shit. Which is hardly worth it due to the fact i stubbed my toe yesterday at work.

2+2 is a self evident truth

hmm. you know whats an interesting concept? that "space" in actual space, actual exists and has properties.

scientists have proven this to be true. that supposedly empty "space" out there, is actually very real.

In terms of things needing a purpose to exist, thats not a question for you or me to answer. we are created. its above our pay grade, friend.

>maybe it just set the table and watched the unfolding action?

That's what I believe actually, a non-intervening god. With no particular love for humanity. Boom human extinction! Oh well we'll have another conscious species in another billion years. I don't go for the "we exists as a conscious mirror for god to perceive his own beauty thing" I think that's all human ego trying to feel self-important.

Get to work on helping those people out then, faggot.

>implying you'll ever leave the house long enough to affect anything in the world.

I wont disagree with you there. you could be right, or you could be wrong. either way, im glad we are able to shoot the shit about our situation.

your literally starting a dumbass argument with user, nitpicking a tiny detail and twisitng it into something to argue against, your a faggot

Are you talking about dark matter?

yeah, according to god, who created logic and physics

but beyond that, can you prove that 2+2=4? without rules it is meaningless.

Exactly. If you go back and back to understand everything, you do eventually run into a logical wall of "it just is the way it is because that's the way it is". This occurs whether you include intelligent design or not. Why is the universe this way? Because it is. Or we go with intelligent design, and we get some extra steps: Why is the universe this way? Because God made it this way. Why did God make it this way? Because He did. You still run into the same logical issue.

Maybe you end up knowing God. So now you know "why" He made things this way. Then you ask, "Who made you, God?" And He tells you who created Him. "Why did HE make you, God?", and He tells you, "Because HE did". And you can go on down the line, but either it's an endless chain of gods creating gods, or eventually you reach another dead end of logic.

The fact is, the argument of whether there's an intelligent design to the universe accomplishes nothing because it doesn't answer "Why" either way.

>We just spent..... 2 billion dollars to take this picture!
[citation needed]

>Geez, it's not like people are hungry
Americans are always hungry

>roads need fixing
Get a job and go fix them

i am talking about the space that exists in space. the area of a certain point in reality. even if its supposedly empty. it still exists. must have some physical properties.

Why did you post a gif of Trump's mouth?

lol. i really enjoyed that post. sad but true. we are alone.

It's a field dude, layers of fields
Higgs field, electromagnetic field, so on, so forth

Yes i can hold a cup in each of my hands, then put them on a counter top, i can then pick up another separate cup with each of my hands, and then place it upon the same counter top. I then raise a finger for each cup that i have now put on the counter top. And i count my fingers. And i find that i have four (4) fingers for each cup, which i put on the counter in two (2) repetitions of the same action. So 2*2 =4, or 2+2=4.

...

"Just spent"...
The Casini spacecraft is over a decade old!

I think he's talking about virtual particles and stuff like the casimer effect

I know actually i was searching for a reaction pic to approve the previous post but this was good too..

The check just cleared after bouncing for this long

ok, but without "god" to enforce that reality, those ideas would fall apart.

the math you used would crumble.

thats my point.

Check'd

If by "god" you mean the natural phenomena then yes.

Hm, I never heard of virtual particles and the casmier effect. Gonna have to check that out.

Quantity is one of those things that has a fundamental and objective basis in reality. It exists without our minds to come up with the concept. A lot of its meaning is lost without our consciousness there to give it meaning (like any social and cultural associations with have with numbers, and our budding understanding of the universe we have built with math and logic), but it has a very real effect on the universe.

aka Turtles All The Way Down

Define "god".

>oh those numbers dont matter because there not the minimum allotted numbers, just the numbers that have been consistently spent and will be consistently spent into the forseeable future.

thats your argument? kill yourself.

the force that enforces physics

Is that fucking you sean murray you slimey goofy fuck

So your picture of reality is of a fickle intelligent being with emotions that has to put conscious effort into keeping our reality from falling apart and becoming pure noise and nonsense?

Your life must be an endless nightmare of anxiety and terror.

While Richard Feynman was doing a TV interview, a woman got up from the audience and asked him why we spend so much money on these fancy devices to detect theoretical particles when we could be curing cancer instead. Feynman didn't have a rebuttal.

Well I do have the rebuttal: because of physicists using those fancy expensive machines we now have Positron Emission Topography, used to treat cancer.

Does that answer your question, OP?

Why does something have to consciously enforce physics? Why can't the matter and energy in our universe simply behave according to its innate properties?

because thats just a program running. something has to make it so.

i know thats hard to believe and hard to understand.

something is running, some kind of engine, that enforces these ideas. it makes them real.

Because then everything would be meaningless. :(

Not wasted. Move along idiot.

>im glad we are able to shoot the shit about our situation.
Yep, you don't get much luckier than being alive I suppose.

HOLY FUCK

I AM COMPARING THE SIZE OF THE NORTH POLE OF SATURN TO EARTH
THAT IS ALL

KILL YOURSELF

FUCK YOU
STUPID FUCKING RETARD

REEEEEE

>I fed the troll guys, now we can sleep better at night

third

>Not wasted
>.
>Move along
>idiot
>.

Nerds defend excess money

SpaceX is private. They can do what they want. ESA can do what they want. But the government doesn't have to have NASA. If anything it's better if it's in the hands of private industry. You cuck

We may find out that there are multiple forces that exist at an equilibrium and it is the emerging property of these equilibrium that enforce the rules of physics, so no single force is behind it but rather a series of forces that regulate each other.
Like the bodies homoeostasis.

>something has to make it so.
That's true in this universe, it's insular to assume the rules in this universe apply to this universe

>i know thats hard to believe and hard to understand.
It's not hard to understand. That's the intuitive way of looking at things, to assume that because we create things and laws that someone must have created the universe around us as well.

But, as we often find, science finds us having to grapple with unintuitive concepts. We have enough evidence to be pretty sure that the universe hasn't existed forever and was created in the "Big Bang". But before that, we don't really know anything, so I can't give any concrete answers.

But there's plenty of ways to imagine events coming into place without the hand of a conscious force. It just requires looking at the problem in ways that go beyond common sense. Like understanding that things can simply "be".

If you have a problem with that, that problem is not solved with an intelligent design. Because whatever created reality must simply "be" as well, because it existed before. Or whatever created it. Or whatever created that. You're not solving the problem you think you are by involving intelligent design. That doesn't mean there isn't, but not for the reasons you think it does.

How do you solve the problem? You accept that it isn't a problem in the first place, and that it may in fact be the way things work. Reality isn't hanging on a threat supported by a conscious being. And frankly, that's a reassuring thought.

One of Jupiter's pole!
Taken by the Juno probe

The wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron".

>threat
meant thread, but it sort of works all the same.

how does anything exist and act without power? its all just ideas without some kind of touch of creation.

Fuck u nigger

NASA brings in more money than they use. They are a net profit

Without the NASA spaceX would have nothing to do in space.
Dont get caught up with their retarded "flying cars by 2000" fantasy projections, the only thing SpaceX does is provide resources to the ISS and research cheaper ways to provide resources to the ISS. Which the government pays for
They're basically dole bludgers and the ISS is the welfare office.

It is not hard to understand.

It is hard to believe.

Because it makes no fucking sense.

right in da pooper amIright?

so from a dog's point of view, the political system of democracy makes no sense.

does that mean its untrue? that it doesnt exist?

I'm trying to explain to you, that involving a God or other intelligent creator of the universe doesn't solve the philosophical issue you're grappling with in regards to an atheistic view of the universe. It just adds an extra step before the hit the same wall.

The answer is that we don't know yet. It may or may not involve intelligent design. But don't be convinced that there is one because you feel you can't solve the problem either way. Because it's not a solution anyway.

I'd rather have a hi def image of this than feed those lazy poor people.

SpaceX is going to have a colony up in the 2020s. They are slowly growing to be independent of NASA.

i respect your position of neutrality. i know why you are holding out on any certain beliefs, and thats fine. you could be right in the end.

but i disagree with you 100%

I'd have more respect for atheists if they weren't so fucking lazy.

>what's the simplest, stupidest version of theism I can imagine and ascribe to people?
>That's what I'm going to pretend people believe in so I can feel superior without having to do any work

>what are lasers?
>what are microprocessors?
>what is the Internet?
>what is a GPS?
>what is lasik eye surgery?

Literally all of these things and thousands of other, everyday technologies and devices were developed with knowledge and technology created, founded, or enhanced due to space exploration.

Everything must have a cause, even god. The Hindu's view is that the world rested upon an elephant and the elephant rested upon a tortoise; and when they said, 'How about the tortoise?' the Indian said, 'Suppose we change the subject.'"

I'd be surprised if SpaceX has a rover on mars by 2030
I only assume everything they've done and said is some kind of investment scam, because i can't see them seriously believing half the shit they've publicly claimed.

Those developments are thanks to both space exploration AND war, which is the ironic part ITT.

Let's not open that can of worms. Theists are just as likely to oversimplify atheist beliefs in the same way.

that's too much logic for the simplistic liberal brain to handle

underrated

>what's the simplest, stupidest version of theism I can imagine and ascribe to people?
God did it.

Homeless people should just kill themselves and be over with it.

Well I'm not entirely neutral. My position is that there probably isn't a God because given my argument, statistics really work against it, simply because it requires less conjecture to explain the "why" of things. Occam's Razor favors any explanation that doesn't rely on numerous assumptions.

...

THE PLANET SUCC

isnt that a picture of your anus OP?

dude, stop with the stats an all that nonsense.

people are a poor bar to evaluate our situation from.

Fuck! ABORT!

Yu gi oh predicted it all!!

I don't like war but I can admit it gives us better technologies and can advance knowledge due to R&D of offensive and defensive weaponry. All the other people are just retarded.

Is that Oprahs butthole

I'm surprised by the level of conversation that happened here.
I forgot i was on Cred Forums for a while there.

I hate it when people say this kind of stupid shit. There will always, ALWAYS be hungry people and roads that need fixing. If we don't work out how to get people off of this rock eventually the human race is fucked. Just think of it as the ultimate long-term planning. Besides, when space exploration finally allows for colonisation, we'll actually have a workable solution to the overpopulation problem which EVEN NOW is slowly fucking us all over - leading to people getting hungry and roads needing fixing.

Would you rather we give it to niggers who hate us?
Oh wait, we do that too.
We really need to kill our 'leaders'.
Fuck'n "Let them eat cake" bitches.

first day newfag?

The athiest/christfag trolls are starting to creep now in but it was good for a while.

Claims of whether there is or isn't a God are always based on logic, one form or another. We're always using our experience as a bar to evaluate our situation.

The thing is, belief in an intelligent design is the most intuitive way to understand reality, because of our experience. That's why we always used religion to explain our existence historically.

You accuse me of using human intuition to solve a problem beyond human intuition, but that's exactly what science and logic is for, to go beyond normal human intuition. That's when we managed to figure out how to find out what the sun really is, rather than a big bright god in the sky. I'd argue that what you accuse me of is exactly what I think many theists fall back on when explaining why there must be an intelligent design to the universe.

If you want infrastructure fixed you need politicians willing to put money into such projects. Depending on the country it's actually quite an easy sell because it affects everyone in obvious ways.

That pic really looks fake. Im not baiting, that shit really
looks like an oil painting..

Yes, it does. Because we are not irrational animals that act purely by instinct.
An animal doesn't think rationally. There's no logical or illogical for them.

No but i am a new fag.
I got here in 2010.
I came for the CP, but i stayed for the habitualised behaviour.

either bait or you're a fucking idiot.

I don't know space is kinda boring you know i just want to see pussy and tits my whole life not this shit.

Probably both.

I have a solution to the overpopulation problem right now.
Stop giving foreign aid!

geohive.com/earth/his_proj_africa.aspx

Science is important. Its money well spent

I was with you until here. Humans are certainly more intelligent and capable of greater rationality than other animals, but the intelligence of other animals is greatly variable and degrees of reason and logic vary between them as well. These concepts are beyond their grasp, but our intelligence and reason is greater than theirs in terms of magnitude, not type.

And following that, our intelligence is not the greatest possible intelligence either, I imagine. It's probably hard to quantify what could be the greatest possible intelligence. There's so much we may be as incapable of grasping as an ape, things an ape can grasp that is beyond a dog, and theirs beyond an ants, etc.

Our intelligence is not really an argument for or against intelligent design as it stands.

Fuck off faggot. No one cares

Well, one area where human intelligence differs from other animals in type is our ability to record and communicate really complex information. Other animals are capable of communicating to some extent, depending on the species, but obvious no ideas nearly as complex as the ones we share (but that's in terms of magnitude, not type). However, since we can also near-permanently record information for others to reference, we can continually pool our knowledge base as we have for thousands of years, resulting in our current understanding of the universe and technological prowess. This ability is both a result of our higher intelligence and our greater dexterity of manipulation (having articulate fingers and opposable thumbs) and complex vocalization techniques.

You're pissed about this and not the 6 trillion they just "lost"?

The thing that i think is so cool about humans is the meat processor that developed just for threat management, tool use and language in a period of time too short to be due to genetic changes just happened to be capable of developing such a understanding of the natural world and beyond.
It amazes me every time i think about how we managed to make a thing that was effectively a very complex flight control of a plane consider the nature of the universe it flies in and the reason for thinking in the first place.
That was so lucky we don't even know how unlikely it was.

Interestingly, one theory is that a mutation resulted in the jawline becoming much smaller and pushed back, which resulted in the brain cavity of the skull becoming larger and more brain filling in to compensate (which is in fact the way mutations generally turn out, with parts of the body attempting to make good use of the mutated structures). This little fluke resulted in a brain which was much larger in proportion to the body than any other animal, without any defects in the brain itself, which created the potential for our unprecedented intelligence.

So if that's the case, it really was just a fluke. But evolution also favored our higher intelligence, so it's no surprise that the mutation survived to today.

They are only able to use their intelligence to interact with the environment, like our ancestors. However, their brains are incapable of processing rational thoughts. That's why they are called "irrational". They act and survive purely by instinct. That being said, they cannot define logical and illogical. This is a scientific fact.

Either way, if there is something beyond our comprehension, we wouldn't know about it. The same way dogs won't ever know what a political system is.

This is like asking whydo triangles have three sides. Think it over, have a capri sun, and come back with something of substance

The places starving are those usually populated by niggers. Not black people, but lazy assed niggers. We should cut off all aid to them, they have made next to no progress and breed like rabbits. If we cut them loose, they will either die out and free up land for nature to reclaim and stop straining our resources or two, they will start using their heads instead of going 'gibs me dat'

War defense is 54% of the budget.
I mean make believe facts are cool too.

The Muslims are gonna be pissed

I don't think animals are scientifically classified as "irrational" beings. With numerous species, you can put them in a situation where they must solve a complex problem to get some food, and watch them systematically figure out the problem and solve it. Some species are believed to capable of some degree of abstract thought as well, particularly some species of birds, elephants, and cuttlefish. I'm just saying, I recognize there's a big different between human intelligence and the intelligence of other animals (and it's a wide margin, too), there isn't necessarily that clear cut-off point you're describing, between pure instinct and pure reason. Animals behave mostly by instinct but sometimes have some reason, and humans have strong reasoning capabilities but much of our motivations are still driven by instinct. We're still animals.

Our ability to record and pool our information is unique in the animal kingdom, but that's also due to a variety of factors, not just our intelligence.

>Either way, if there is something beyond our comprehension, we wouldn't know about it. The same way dogs won't ever know what a political system is.
That was the argument the other guy was making. That just because we can't comprehend something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that it is untrue. Your response was that it does mean it doesn't exist. So you're contradicting yourself here.

I mean, neither of us believes in intelligent design but I dunno, the argument you used irked me and the other guy is gone so I guess you take the full brunt of my autism now.

The back of a yugioh card

people are worthless resources, technology progress is all what matters

>2 billion dollar picture
>progress in technology

pic one

Yeah, building a craft that can fly to another fucking planet and take pictures of unprecedented detail of mysterious weather patterns on said planet, collect data and beam it back to us is just trivial stuff.

Fuck off.

This.

>they must solve a complex problem to get some food

As i said, instinct. They don't do it thinking logically, they just stimulate their intelligence to receive food.
This is the most basic survival instinct that all animals have: Get food to survive.

>there isn't necessarily that clear cut-off point you're describing, between pure instinct and pure reason.

There is. That's how they live in the wilderness. That's how we lived before we evolved into a species that are capable of thinking with superior complexity.
These animals live with one single goal: Survive.

>but much of our motivations are still driven by instinct. We're still animals.

Of course we are. We having a greater intellect doesn't mean we can't have instincts. However, unlike the other animals we can choose to ignore our instincts. That's the only factor that makes us different.

>That was the argument the other guy was making. That just because we can't comprehend something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that it is untrue. Your response was that it does mean it doesn't exist. So you're contradicting yourself here.

You missed the point. I'll try to express myself better.
If something is beyond our comprehension we shouldn't know about it, which is the case of god. We know about god.
That means he's not beyond our comprehension. If it is not beyond our comprehension, his existence should make sense.
It does not.

>I mean, neither of us believes in intelligent design but I dunno, the argument you used irked me and the other guy is gone so I guess you take the full brunt of my autism now.

I can understand how you feel. I have this bad habit of being too reasonable. You're not the first one to be irked like that at me by my cold behavior.
But on the bright side, my autism makes things even.

bingo

lol

didnt know Cred Forums cares about hungry people or roads

So fucking what, we don't spend nearly enough money on space exploration, if the human race wants to survive and prosper in the near future we need to start investing more money into science to understand the universe and are potential.

It also landed a probe on titan which was i believe one of only 5 extraterrestrial bodies we have photographed from the surface and easily the most distant one.

>As i said, instinct. They don't do it thinking logically, they just stimulate their intelligence to receive food.
This is the most basic survival instinct that all animals have: Get food to survive.
I don't really get what the difference is. We're all motivated by those instincts: to eat, to have shelter, to pass on our genes. Our methods to get there are far more complex because of the complex society we've built, but that's essentially our version of the box puzzle the crow needs to solve to get some food.

>There is. That's how they live in the wilderness. That's how we lived before we evolved into a species that are capable of thinking with superior complexity.
These animals live with one single goal: Survive.
Again, this motivation has continued to us. We don't live in the wilderness anymore because we built shelter, and later cities. But like the other thing I discussed, there's other factors to that behavior than just our intelligence. I'd argue that our greater articulation of manipulation (our hands) had more to do with that than our intelligence.

>However, unlike the other animals we can choose to ignore our instincts. That's the only factor that makes us different.
I honestly don't think we can choose to ignore our instincts. They invade every thought and action in our lives. Almost our entire society is built around mating rituals. Our lives revolve around passing on our genes, and survival. The only people who can really ignore these needs don't do so by choice, but due to some form of genetic defect, i.e. asexuals. But they stuff tend to other, more basic survival instincts like the rest of us.

>You missed the point. I'll try to express myself better. [explanation]
Fair enough.

Pretend the second line of the first two quotes were also greentext.

Its a lot less than we spent in tax incentives and government assistance to subsidize Walmart keeping people poor.

Space exploration is more important in the grand scheme of things than a pot hole or some nigga having a cheese burger.

Thanks, m80. Some people are just allergic to reason and will just brush your arguments off as being from a simple liberal mind or some such nonsense, without actually countering your points. Of course, stupid people are everywhere...

Budget cuts have hit us all hard i see.

>because it doesn't affect you

When your grandmama falls ill and doesn't have social security money or healthy benefits to save her life then you'll start crying about the excessive spending of our government on frivolous things for the here and now

It's a shame that increasing NASA's budget would have to cut in on social security instead of the massively inflated military budget, huh?

youre kinda boring fuck you user

Wow! We just spend money to expend our understanding of the universe for all mankind and make technological advancements for humanity.

Wow! during that time we also decided that it is a really good idea to spend more money than any country in reality has ability to spend in killing people and controlling the masses in hope for profit for absolutely no coherent reason. And what's best we decided that people who can't have any say in any matter are the ones who will pay for this plan to ruin humankind. :) Well played God, well played...

The herion explosion is much closer related to the us federal government cracking down on prescription opioids.

So let's forget about our military so that Russia or North Korea or ISIS can finally use a nuke to bomb all our major cities and then we all die. Nice common sense there brah.

I think you're seriously overestimating how much would be needed to be taken out of the military budget just to double NASA's budget. It would barely make a dent. We could quadruple NASA's budget from the military budget and the difference would be minimal.

Muricans

this is not actually a fact but it is close to reality if look at the numbers. There are site that back this up. sites that have real people doing real statistical work based on real numbers. good post.

I would agree with yo. Pretty fucking cool.

samefag

this lad got the right idea

you sir failed in that assumption

i highly doubt that

sorry but you did fail and that is a fact. I just came to this thread and saw that post and i replied to it. then you made the most ingenious reply ever and it was a complete fail. or do i need to take a screencap to humiliate you even further?

You disgusting piece of Eurotrash, shouldn't you be bent over and taking Mohamed's juicy brown wang?

Nigger that's the maelstrom.
You don't need to spend 2 billion dollars to go see it. Just roll a shaman and get to 100 for the artifact questliine. Stupid cunt.

Nothing stops people from getting jobs and you know taking care of themselves. Bernie cuck fag

pretty cool picture tbh

Nigger any class can fly through it to get to deepholm at like 84

Dumbest shit I've ever read.

It's not me that is being humiliated.
It is up to you whether you want to justify your retarded support for another retarded comment or to leave it how it looks which is that you are guilty of the common problem of being a samefag to give yourself a boost.

You are clearly not smart at all. i feel sorry for you.

Now you are projecting. And I don't feel sorry for stupidity like yours.

I just spent..... 15 dollars to shitpost on this site.

and you just decided that if you get the last word you are right even when you are not. you failed already with this post

OP's mother's anus

Science is more important than the lives of the unfortunate.

We had some interesting discussions going on here. Is this how it ends?

and i paid nothing.

make another one

Saturn is a portal to a different dimension

>1005X992
>$2 Billion

Kek

korean war is still technically going, it's been a 60-year cease fire essentially.

even then the line they got to that defines today's borders is still "as far north as they could push before getting rekt to chinese forces".

>cut back military spending
>get surpassed by nation who cares even less about their people
whoda thunkit

What does surpassing a nation's military even mean anymore?
No one can conquer shit, america probably wouldn't even win against new zealand at this point and it's supposed to be the strongest military in the world. (america not new zealand, i'm sure that was confusing)

...