Alright Cred Forums I'm gonna take this to the fa/tg/uys eventually but for now I want to see a fire start

well not die per say, but they'd lose control over their nervous systems as the spores entered them.

Simple. The nids also possess a hivemind intelligence, but that hivemind intelligence is offworld. Also, the nids would sense any genetic changes the flood spore might cause immediately, and would terminate its connection with the infected nid. Furthermore, the hivemind would further instruct the other nids around the infected one to tear it to shreds.

Dude. Nids can shrug off lascannon shots. Their organic armor is layered so heavily its ridic. Read up on nids. They are sick. They have underground units that can flank you and pick off your leaders. They have bush assassins. They have literally anything you can imagine. They have guns that shoots smaller nids.

You're saying they would tear into an infected friend...
With teeth and claws, spraying flood spores over everything doing the tearing, infecting the rest of them.

I'm more than certain that the gravemind would understand that two organic species who feed off of organic material and infect other organic material would end up in a stalemate as each one would develop resistances to the various infections each species would try to use on the other.

It would either end up in a cold-war between the two species, or they could simply merge into one. The organic zerglike tyranids would use the spore-like flood as a carrier for their species to sow the seeds of destruction and decay on any world they choose.

>The Culture
Also just because they get infected doesnt mean theyll be controlled by the gravemind, its a case of 2 mind control entities duking it out

The mother ships have all the DNA, not individual gaunts

this
the flood consumes and becomes more intelligent and powerful. You cant kill the flood.

But wouldn't an organic tendril be capable of burrowing through other organic matter? Like how vines grow through rocks but on a scale 100x faster?

I'm OP not that guy. Idk what the Culture is

>But saying that the Nids aren't great at killing from a distance is an understatement.
Against wh40k civs. They'd demolish flood forms from a distance. They also have space fighters. The flood couldn't take out humans or the covenant whereas the flood eat up large alien empires every few years.

Flood would win simply because the Nids would fracture from the inside seeing as the Flood is more of a Sentient Virus with telekinetic powers. The Nid hive mind would simply be "infected" and obsorbed into the Flood.

Yes but they adapt. The other thing people forget. Are that nids are physic. They have zoanatropes? Spelling fail. But they can melt tanks and all that stuff. Nothing besides other nids can get close unless you do alot of shit (sm expert not nids) and they could literally just burn all the flood.

But the flood did all their destruction in the span of maybe a year or two. The elites helped the humans to finally stop it. And the covenant isn't just one alien. It was every race they came across up till then.

That doesn't even make sense. One form of psychic hungry organic organism would randomly start fighting because of another psychic hungry organism? What logic is that?

Yea thay have methods, but not tons of them, and if enough nid gaunts got taken over they could rush the nid ranged things and swarm them. then the flood would gain access to those organic artillery methods and turn them against the nids too. probably launching infection spores over huge distances. Everything the nids bring to bear can be turned against them.

Good question OP,
cudos to you

thanks.
I'm gonna take a shower and check up later

That's why I agree with this user They would realize that nobody could win. Both are super intelligent and would probably come to a sort of agreement the second they encountered each other

Hivemind. Isnt planetside. They worst that would happen is the nids lose all bioforms on the planet and the hivemine just moves on (worst case) but nids can evolve faster than the flood can corrupt

>But the flood did all their destruction in the span of maybe a year or two.
And they hardly did anything. the Tau cause more damage against the Imps in a year of fighting than the flood did to multiple species. Halo civs are a fraction the size of EH40k ones
>The elites helped the humans to finally stop it.
K. One planet of humans left and a handful of other aliens in a civil war helped stop it.

off topic, but the necrons would totally stomp the flood right?

but they would both be entirely alien to each other.
For a while each would seek to consume the other at least until they figured out what they both were. there would be conflict and if either gained teh slightest upper hand they would seek to finish the conflict.

One is a Species one is a Virus, a Hive mind could get infected immediately and then game over.

Idk. Are we talking single planet battle? Or system?
Nids have a fleet. And can travel through space. I don't think flood can do that without a host?

Yes

Nids would just evolve, sure the flood would win against the first generation, but the nids can selectively breed their traits. So they would just breed something with an immune system that kills everything that enters their body, Maybe make their blood super acidic or some weird shit. Evolution tends to find ways around problems.

The Forerunners are exponentially more powerful than anything in the 40k universe.

A society run by benevolent machines which gave up living on planets. In this case though it could be considered a load of AI spaceships billions of times smarter than a human, so they'd presumably be immune to infection.

Not really anything to infect so yea. Flood would be fucked

Umm... Probably yes. tough to say. I'm tempted to say that their biology woud be incompatible to the flood. If Mjolnir armor stops the flood then necron living metal certainly would too

Maybe the Flood is an offshoot of the Nids that arrived in the galaxy before the rest of them, so halo and 40k are in the same universe. The old ones are the precursers or forerunners or whateever

Implying the forerunners and the humans, and the covenent didn't have space travel too.

And everything the flood makes could be eaten by the much more powerful nids
>hurr durr b-but now it's infected
They'd evolve a better immune system
>T-they'll get more haunts and overpower the rest of the nids
So what? Those haunts aren't going to fly into space and fight the nids fighters. So you have a planet of infected gaunts. That doesn't bother the nids one bit, they now have a planet-sized bio lab

necrons tend to wipe of all living organisms of a planet including bacteria and viruses. The flood would be in for a massacre

Yes

I think it'd be a planet at first certainly. The theater of this war would grow though.explosively so

Flood wipes over everything, and is only interisted in the organics...

Nids are a species that live and die as a unit

Flood is a virus that came from a failure of organic reincarnation of digitized beings...

What happens when a flood does infect a nid... They become a tankier verion of that nid and they continue to grow

One grows off of the other and off of other species... And is sentient*

The other could be (at a basic level) be accustomed to a hyper evolved colony of bees

Id say flood will win if the nids dont take the threat of a stupid looking ball sack carefully and even one gets infected ... GG

The hive mind would kill any nid that becomes infected on the spot

Actually thinking about what you said and I realised this is an endless war situation as one will infect and one will evolve to counter and then that gen will be infected and them counted and so on. Two unstoppable forces in an endless circle.

Mind fucking blown.

Sly Marbo

found the fanboy

Flood invested orks would be the scariest thing in the universe,

Ok
Yet again. Can the FLOOD travel without a host.

One is a species of psychers, viruses, microscopic organisms, genestealers, hive minds, gravity manipulating ships, and cultists able to influence/imitate local species and the other is a hivemind? Great argument user that convinced me.

Hard to win when you have to work on countering then are countered yourself. Like a stupid game of rock passer scissors where they keep changing what they play

Nah. Flood invested chaos tainted orks

>how to beat supcom/TA
They just evolve bigger megaliths to deal with them like they did the Titans. Alternately I don't see how anything could deal with them either. Besides, every ACU has a human in it and if they can get a tyranid in there it's game over.

+1
yes he would.
but that's not the debate.
We are discussing a hypothetical world where Every living creature doesn't have to check under its bed for Sly

>triggered Halofag spotted
Literally never played wh40k. Halo is just a mediocre sci fi. Heinlein's troopers could take on anything in Gaylo

Gridfire alone means no contest.

Yes
Its like Nids in a way that it just sits in space and drifts, but more as a kind of Mould/virus

yeah, its not even the boosted strength or whatever, its that the orks are forced to work together.

I was gonna make a wORK pun but it didnt work

They have their base infection ball form until they find a host. But they managed to do that against at least 7 other races. I think at one point it mentions that they climbed aboard an asteroid too. Maybe that was starship troopers

how's that even fanboyish? do pro-halo people not understand basic biology?

>mfw I've played only a single Halo game.
the debate was mostly insult free before you got here.
The emperor isn't gonna suck ur dick for supporting his fictional universe over another. try to keep the argument logical

I don't think the Cultist actually count as Nids full faction any more something to do with their new codex and faction relations.

>tyranids
>basic biology
pick one

Exactly

Yes, hosts simply make it easier for the gravemind to spread infection and assimilate more knowledge. The Gravemind is one giant intelligent Precursor that fell to the infection that the precursors created. When a species fails to inherit the Mantle the flood comes and wipes them out absorbs their knowledge and tries again, let's another species evolve

Easy solution

Tyranids literally having living organic bio-fleets of mass destruction, organic 'guns' etc.

Some even have psionic powers

Now some people may bring up that in certain circumstances, flood can control technology. The problem for them is, these ships,weapons etc. are organic.

Also, on another note, I like to think that if a nid was infected by flood, the two 'hiveminds' would be able to communicate with each other, due to the transient properties of the mind and psychic whatever it is that hiveminds use

Whichever has a stronger mental presence would win, and take control of both species

That is a scary thought

I think you are thinking about the Reapers in Mass Effect mate, Flood infect the planets and simply remain there allowing nothing to live at all.

>flood takes over haunts on one planet
>entire species is now a vector

They drift yes. But with speed. They use gravity to pull them towards their prey

>prefer Heinlein
>hurr durr suck dicks
Shut up you fucking baby. Point out one logical fallacy

Tyranids.

presence of tyranids causes Imperial intervention and eventual exterminatus

Therefore, tyranids would sneakily send their weakest 'nids to flood worlds, and sit back and lol as it got exterminatus'd

'Nids are smart...flood just 'are'

who's heinlein

actually the flood are controlled by a practical god.
the precursors could bend reality and their leader inherited those powers

Flood drift in whatever direction they were last bumped in pretty much.

No, in later Halo books, comics and so forth the Didactic uncovers a lifeform locked in slipspace by the Precursors and develops a way to communicate with it (it's the gravemind) they discover the flood is a virus developed by the Precursors to wipe out unworthy species that fail to inherit the mantle every 10,000,000 years or so

didn't say anything about that, the flood themselves are lower intelligence simply reacting to their surroundings. They follow directives by only certain flood are directly linked to the mind

Tyranids, even the weakest forms, are extremely cunning and intelligent as they all share knowledge and information freely

Ok
>They'd evolve a better immune system
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Nids. While both species are pretty similar in the way that they consume and adapt the technology is far more advanced in Warhammer 40k. Also while I'm not an expert on the Nids I believe they get access to physic abilities.

The nids would send after their first assault only nids that can only act while they are being controlled by the hive mind, so extremely small brain. The flood hates that. The nids would also send nids with exoskeletons and no bones as the flood also wants calcium for some weird reason.

The flood infects by accelerating evolution and causing an evolutionary breakdown. The nids would just send nids that have destroyed their DNA meaning that those nids can only live for one week, but the flood cannot infect them.

Actually I'll give you two
>Shut up you fucking baby
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

the best argument I've seen so far.

Didact not didactic, love auto-correct

>exoskeletons
>no bones

...Right.

These are the Greg Bear ones right? I've read the first one (Have started the second). There is a massive hole in his "idea" of the flood in that its already been establish that they just sit eternally on worlds allowing no one to evolve and try to take the "mantle".

this

kek

This guy understands

While the basic flood forms are weak they're highly infectious. The flood breaks down DNA and reassemble it to fit it's needs. That's why in Halo games and books some flood that are more closely linked to the gravemind and composed of a higher biomass are able to mutate and evolve on the spot. Once they get the biomass it's theirs. Doesn't matter if they die because the food can reanimate life forms. That's why the forerunners made the Halos. To wipe out all sentient life and essentially starve to flood. But the Librarian circumvent this and "planted seeds" to bring about the resurrection of thousands of species and put the human evolution on a fast track so they could stand a chance when thebflood came again.

an exoskeleton is made out of chitin not made out of calcium

I'm not speaking of the the Greg bear series specifically. There's a wile variety of comics, lore books, and a few short films that go into more detail explaining how the flood was developed by Precursors to wipe out lifeforms that fail to inherit the mantle and stop the flood. It was the Precursors way of finding a worthy successor. The Forerunners almost did so and could have if they had not went to war with the Humans.

Of these two, Tyranids
> Better at range; they have guns that spray acid capable of melting through tabks as well as unconventional weapons firing swarms of carnivorous beetles capable of slicing through plate armor, corrosive/electric maggots that can destroy vehicles etc
> They often have acid blood, which would fuck the flood organisms up
> Numbers. Whole fields of writhing, snake-sized maggots that would tear down flood organisms for their genetic material.
> Speed. Their flying organisms and space travel allow them to be where they need to be far faster. They could cover a planet in the time it takes for the flood to cover a small country.
> If all else fails, they won on adaptability. They can sense and respond to a threat far better. Need the acid blood? They get it. Need it stronger? They get it. Flood immune to acid? Try a new venom instead. Need a cloud of toxic spores to tear down the flood? They get it. Need tougher armor to stop the flood organisms getting in? They get it. They like the way the flood work? They get it. Flood have something they don't? They get it.

Tyranids have gone toe to toe with full chaos incursions and come out on top (see fall of shadowbrink), it's not even a real battle.

they don't require calcium. they want it.
also most chitin is combined with calcium carbonate

Every single organism listed can be taken over by the flood.
every weapon they have is organic.
every weapon can be taken and repurposed to further the infection

And when the flood takes over something they gain its biological abilities
(see the super-strong leaping flood-brutes)
They would learn to do the same tyranid adaptation after they took over anything that could do it. lets not forget too, anything dead with flood spores in it becomes flood. anything living with flood spores in it becomes flood too. Any attempted biomass consumption that the tyranids value so very much would infect them with flood.

It would probably depend on how the first battle went. If the Tyranids didn't consider them the threat they are and the flood won the original skirmish the flood would eventually win. If the Tyranids went all out they could wipe them out quickly but I still believe it would end in a stalemate with neither one wanting to waste the resources trying to kill the other.

>just send nids that have destroyed their dna, meaning they could only live for one week

Did you just pull tat timeframe out of your ass? Because, without dna you couldn't live for so much as a few hours. Your body is constantly synthesizing thousands of necessary complex molecules every single second of every single day. If that stopped, your biology would just stop. This is likely an intrinsic feature of dna based life.

There seems to be a lot of citing of the point that the nids would just evolve out of the Flood's fundamental niche. This is somewhat of a stupid point because even if there was an "outside of the Flood's fundamental niche" (which there is literally no precedent for), the Flood is also an accelerated-evolutionary life form, meaning that if the nids even could evolve outside of the Flood's fundamental niche, the Flood would soon after evolve a fundamental niche that included the new nid-condition.

And then on top of that, and this is the big point, the flood actually alters the genetic makeup op the hosts it infects to suit itself best. It doesn't matter what the nids might evolve to, as soon as the flood infects a nid, that nid will be biologically reprogrammed to be whatever the Flood wants it to be. Essentially, you can't be non-infectable to the flood unless you're literally just not living biological matter (like the necrons).
Anyone claiming that the Flood is not "intelligent" doesn't know what the Gravemind is, and anyone suggesting that the Gravemind couldn't do anything because it is dead does not know that the Gravemind isn't a unique entity - it can be reestablished given an appropriate amount of intelligent biomass.

Except the individual organisms aren't what adapts, swarms are pumped out. The flood would gain strong hosts and nothing more, woke the smaller organisms within the host would rebel. The hove ships are what controls tyranid adaption, and without space travel the flood can't do anything to them. The flood would win the firstvfew skirmishes, then the hive ships would pump out organisms immune to the flood spore. As for consuming biomass, they break down everything they consume. Those spores would become base genetic material like everything else. Nurgle incursions don't have an auto-win against nids, and they'd have every advantage the flod has a thousand times over.

All the hive mind has to do is notice how the flood works and it's game over.

Sorry, I like halo too but everything in 40k is ridiculously OP. Theres nothing the flood can do that Tyranids can't improve and/or counter.

tl;dr: the Flood has this one purely on the basis that no living biological life form is non-infectable. Having ranged weapons wouldn't make a difference - the Flood infects by "spores" which are extremely durable and resistant to a vast array of environmental conditions, and can be carried by a light breeze as far as that breeze goes.

And then they have a swarm of disposable organisms, the Nids learn, and they have acid blooded swarms. The nids could just send down pyrovores and venomthropes and kill every organism on the planet with fire and gas, then dissolve every cell in the digestion pools. Worst case scenario they poison the planet and move on.

This/10

Tyranids.

They can't get infected due to the Hive Mind's influence, and they can evolve on the fly to counter anything the flood does.
They also eat literally anything organic and use it as supplies for more spawn. This includes their own fallen.

ITT: People who understand Halo but not 40k argue with people who understand Halo and 40k

>Spores would become base material
Yeah, if the nids were able to beat the infection, which there is no precedent for.
Saying that the nids would be "immune to flood spores because flood spores are made of material that can be converted to somatic tissue" is the same thing as saying that "humans aren't susceptible to rhinovirus because rhinovirus is made of material that can be converted to somatic tissue". Human's get colds, and worse all of the time.

There is literally no precedent to suggest that hyperacidity would stop the flood.

This.
Really it would end with them both winning in a way anyway.
> Flood wins first battle
> Nids counter every flood advantage, break down every cell, learn from the flood
> Next generation of Nids can do everything the flood can do and more
> Flood/nid hive devours the galaxy

>Yeah, if the nids were able to beat the infection, which there is no precedent for.
The nids tell Nurgle, the chaos god of disease, to fuck off on a regular basis.

The only reason they wouldn't roll around laughing at the idea of a mundane infection being a threat is because they don't have a sense of humour.

>which there is no precedent for.

And saying "nothing can prevent flood infection because there's no precedent" is far more like saying "nothing can beat tyranid absorption or genetic adaption because there's no precedent for it" than your comparison.

What would the flood do when the next generation of nids have acid blood to kill the spores, hardened carapace to prevent flood organisms entering them, and cover everything with what is essentially napalm?

What would the flood do when tyranids cover the planet in a cloud of spores designed to kill every flood organism?

What would the flood do when the Tyranids engineer a virus adapted perfectly for killing flood organisms, that adapts faster than the flood possibly can?

What would the flood do when the Tyranids create their own, better flood?

When the ninds get infected, their cells just kill themselves by opening their lysosomes. End of story no DNA no infection. Also who has ever said that the ninds even use DNA, on earth we have RNA, ANA, PNA, GNA, TNA. Even if most of them are man made.

Basicly the ninds could just kill their own cells when they are infected or just not get infected at all because the flood needs to be able to interact with its dna and since the ninds are a hyper evolving race that evolves from everything it finds and keeps the best features, it would just find flood, get a minor defeat, copy flood and win. sinds ninds would then be infecting the floods

So much this.

Literally anyone who knows both knows that Tyranids (and Nurgle) would consider the Flood a minor nuisance at worst.

We get it, you guys like Halo. So do we, but we know enough about 40k to know the flood couldn't possibly be a threat to nids.