How did Peter Jackson fail with the Hobbit movies after making Lord of The Rings?

How was Del Toro's version different, do we know anything about that?

Different design for Smaug. Many other designs were the same for example the dwarves.

Del Toro doesn't even like Tolkien.

The execs wanted Peter Jackson back because they wanted a guaranteed hit like LotR. Because of all the ways PJ got financially fucked by the studio after LotR they had to stall until the court cases and everything got worked out so they pretty much just fucked with del Toro by pulling funding and stalling and delaying until it became clear that he wasn't wanted and he dropped out.

Del Toro moved his family and his life to new Zealand and spent literal YEARS working on the movie and they dumped him. Then when PJ stepped back up they said, "You don't need pre-production time right? You can just use del Toro's stuff!" and gave him a few months to prepare which is why the movies are a complete mess.

Gotta way 5 more years until it's vindicated.
Or maybe it already has. I need to see other places outside of Cred Forums.
I need to rewatch it again together with LOTR.

>Del Toro moved his family and his life to new Zealand and spent literal YEARS working on the movie and they dumped him.

Well. It was partially them getting ahead of themselves, and then when they did run into trouble, Del Toro gave up because he wants to makes movies and not sit around in New Zealand wasting time.

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Holy shit that was insfferable. Especially since later Kevin Smith used the same words in his stand up routine. He's the Star Wars generation gedit?

The tone on Fellowship is perfect, that film is basically perfect. Why? Because he spent 100000 hrs preparing it. So it's his exact vision. You can see the decline of his vision already in the Two Towers, where he basically was rushed and didn't have all the stuff figured out.

The Hobbit trilogy is basically him showing up without any prep because Del Taco is incompetent, and Jackson basically improvising an entire trilogy because Del Tacos' groundwork and prep was unusable.

Yes, the Hobbit trilogy is shit but it is actually fucking amazing considering Jackson just "made it up" on the spot. This results in things looking decent, it looks like LOTR, but the heart isn't there, the pacing is supremely flawed and the overall product is just a big meh.

Give Jackson 5 years of prep with complete creative control and we would have seen a masterpiece.

First movie was pretty nice. Second was fairly underwhelming, but had it's moments. Third was kinda shit.

To be honest it's not THAT bad, well apart from the third. It's more the legacy of the LOTR films shitting all over The Hobbit.

They are as close to perfection as you get. They managed to create a fantasy movie that felt real. Everything fell into place so god damn well it's baffling. And The Hobbit in comparison just feels awful, stupid and like a glorified Disney/Marvel blockbuster with flair over substance.

In LOTR's they for the most part kept fairly well to to books, especially considering the source material. but they omitted a lot of sort of "extraneous" stuff that didn't need to be part of the story, and while it did change the tone, it worked out great and offers an experience that is both very LOTR, but also different.

In The Hobbit, they invented new material instead because they had a short Children's book as source material and needed to pad it out, and most of those invented things where just there to make the movie feel more like your average blockbuster rather than a special experience.

Also, the prop department royally fucked up. Everything looks plastic like it belongs to a Warcraft live roleplaying group.

Holy shit was this on the DVD extras? Never seen something so brutally honest in the behind of the scenes extras. He literally admitted to winging most of the movies.

The extra materials to The Hobbit movies are genuinely a fucking great watch. Lot of insights into the production, and it does make you feel a bit bad for them turning out like they did because everyone seemed to be working damn hard.

There's literally around 24 hours of content across all three movies.
Fuck I wish I could find a decent torrent of them.

Do you think we will ever see some sort of directors cut? Probably just wishfull thinking, we got the Hobbit movies and they're not gonna get any better.

Any good fan-edits? I tried the 2 hour edit today but it felt awful.

Lots of things was rearanged but the Sauron subtplot was entirely from Tolkien. Yet I keep hearing about Jackson polluting this masterpiece with things to connect the two trilogies. I'm glad he didn't have Gandalf just disappear without reason.

It would have been good as a childish fairy tale and one movie only. Drop all the pretentious scenes, make the CGI less terrible and it would have been quite good.

Well no, because the true director vision (which is what director's cuts are initially supposed to be) doesn't exist.

Can't polish a turd etc

Such version exists. It's pretty faithful. It has identical dwarves, random guy who kills Smaug and vanishing Gandalf. All the good stuff that you need if you can't sleep without a bedtime story.

love the 1977 version, still listen to the soundtrack

youtube.com/watch?v=AGF5ROpjRAU

Wow

After watching that it's a miracle they turned out as good as they did.

youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y

The originals were infinitely better

Greatest adventure is such a great song, still make me want to go out and explore

youtube.com/watch?v=U-_r1Npsv5I

my thoughts as well, I need to re-watch the movies again after seeing that. Might appreciate them a bit more.

This needs to be essential viewing for anyone who tries to say PJ phoned it in.

They're a good prologue to LOTR. A couple scenes in FOTR are stronger when seen after the Hobbit. Namely Ballin's tomb scene, Saruman's betrayal and Gandalf's fall.

Why Gandalf's fall?

Because FOTR was the only movie with the superior Gandalf the Gray. His change to Gandalf the White signalizes a change in tone as the story became more serious. You don't expect Gandalf the White to spend his time playing with children and chilling in a place like Shire. It's obvious why the first incarnation of Gandalf is everyone's favorite. So now we get to spend more time with him. Before that there were actually more movies with the white Gandalf.

because all the genu ine acting and scenery was replaced by CGI and left soul-less

The deleted scene with the stone forrest trolls was pretty cool too.

It also happens in the making of videos of Batman and Robin, with the director even apologizing to the viewer

Most of the sets had about the same amount of CG as LOTR.

Granted the goblins and characters had way more CG. And lets be fair, it's not like the fighting in LOTR with them lightly hitting swords against armor like it's effective is that great either.

yeah but it looks cool

Not really. It's probably the weakest part of the trilogy, next to a lot of the comedy elements.

Of course it still beats them hitting air, but not by much.

Well good thing that The Hobbit is no Batman and Robin and Peter Jackson doesn't apologize for his movies.

>How did Peter Jackson fail with the Hobbit movies after making Lord of The Rings?

The Hobbit is probably the more difficult book to adapt. Despite being "short", it's got a lot going on in it, but a lot of it is taking place off screen and only related in passing. This is a bad thing for a filmmaker, because it means things they may have to depict on screen are very vague, even utterly nonexistent in the source text, meaning there's little real guide to what to do. It would be like if LotR, after The Breaking of the Fellowship, only followed Frodo & Sam, with everything else still happening in the background but no passages actually describing it.

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according to Jackson himself LotR has around 500 shots of CGI, while the Hobbit has triple of that.

The Maple Films edit was decent

Well yeah. It has more CGI characters in it.

Edits can't fix the fundamental problems with it

BEADY