Why is this trash considered good?

"Spirited Away is the best Ghibli f-"

did you even watch Princess Mononoke

>Princess Mononoke

Confirmed for having not seen Totoro

The more I see praise heaped on these movies the less I desire to see them.

Nothing that popular can be that good.

What is this screen from?

5 Centimeters per Second by Makoto Shinkai.

Looks like some japanese anime

>What does Spriited Away have to do with "typical anime plots," and what are they?

Fantastic setting, wide array of characters, Japanese cultural aspects. Typical.

>And why do you follow that up by claiming the story is based on Wizard of Oz, which has nothing to do with anime?

Girl is separated from her family, yearns for normalcy, makes fantastic friends who assist her, overcomes subplots to achieve larger goal, is challenged by both a good and bad witch, finally reunited with family.

And I didn't say Oz was anime.

>Also, since when has a movie's quality been determined exclusively by how original the story or premise is?

Since always. But exceptions can be made for quality, which I found Spirited Away lacking in...the protagonist is an irritating little shit who whines continually, and doesn't seem to have changed much by story's end.

WHY DONT YOU HAVE AN IMAGINATION ?

Best miyazaki movie right here

>Totoro

Confirmed for having not seen Kiki's Delivery Service.

Jokes aside. You can like whatever you want but it is Kiki that I consider the best Miyazaki (not Ghibli) so far. Best feel of adventure, characters, best "pacing" (Miyazaki tends to exaggerate with plots, which has to do with his style of working without script) and awesome, awesome finale.
I would like to rewatch Spirited Away and Totoro though, because they were one of the first anime movies I watched and I feel like I've finally learned their "language".

>Typical anime plots
What does that mean? Most of these movies feel rather different.

>I'll just ignore everyone's character
Hate this trash. Always have.

>Something isn't automatically associated with Disney just because it's fantasy and animated
Pretty sure thats up to the person who associates X with Y to decide.

>story that reminds people of classic Disney
Like how

>Fantastic setting, wide array of characters, Japanese cultural aspects.
That's utterly vague, and most fantasy in anime is inspired more by the West than Japan. This is even true for Miyazaki's movies.

>And I didn't say Oz was anime.
You first said Spirited Away represents a typical anime plot and that's the only reason people were impressed, but then you said it's just a re-telling of The Wizard of Oz which many people would be familiar with it and whic has no relation to anime.

>Since always.
Maybe among the sort of people who think the post-modern art movement isn't a joke and that originality at any cost is the purpose of art.

>the protagonist is an irritating little shit who whines continually, and doesn't seem to have changed much by story's end
The whole arc of her character is that that does change.

There's no reason to associate Spirited Away with Disney. It's probably just another attempt at appropriation.

>liking pretentious chink flick

Can you elaborate?

Mononoke is best Miyazaki.

5 Frame Per Second

Lupin was a long established franchise before that movie came out.
The movie blatantly disregards the already established characters' character.

cute girl gets transported to bizarre fantasy world and has to get out somehow while learning a valuable life lesson

Alice in Wonderland was written in the 19th century.

It's great but I wish it was never nominated for an Academy Award. The blu-ray is so fucking expensive because of the Academy Awards.

>story that reminds people of classic Disney
shut it

worst bait ive ever seen

But it's a feel good movie

The only difference i remember was that he was less perverted but that was it

It's a typical anime setting, structured to resemble Wizard Of Oz. Aside from some neat visuals (like the witch's head/dog things), nothing special.

Among anime movies (and even movies in general) Millennium Actress and dear old Ghost In The Shell are special. And Mononoke's more original, but kind of dull and not worth a second viewing.

There's nothing typical about the setting. A typical setting would be high school for example.

People who dismiss a movie because its story is very broadly similar to something else are no doubt the same people who praise pissing blood in your own mouth as a great artistic performance because it's so original.

You're right...I should praise something that looks weird to my gaijin eyes, but is the same fucking story I encountered when I was in kindergarten, but told in a less engaging manner. Because everyone else thinks its good.

Oh no, it resembles another story. It must be shit. Maybe Miyazaki should have used a random generator instead, guaranteed 11/10 movie right there.

youtu.be/52raDbtNpa4

This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. He attributes Miyazaki's animation skills to Western animators and thinks that his style is unique. Then he blathers about some "Eastern sensibility."

the setting is a bathhouse/spa for spirits and stuff, that's random as fuck and pretty much exclusive to this movie

Also who else here remember seeing it as a kid and being totally blown away? It was the first anime I ever saw apart from pokemon (that's an anime, right?) and I was just in awe the entire time. Honestly even the best Disney films that made my childhood, like the Lion King aren't on the same level as stuff like Spirited Away, Akira , Paprika or EoE
I'm not even an avid anime watcher, but the peaks of the genre are fucking amazing
Implying of course the ones I listed are the peaks, if you know any ones you consider better please rec some (generally not a ghibli fan apart from this film)

Anime isn't a genre, and thinking it has some "peaks" you need to hunt down is a really terrible way to approach it. All you'll get is the same 10 titles over and over again that every casual viewer has seen and then you'll walk away thinking that's all there is to it and recommend the same 10 titles to the next guy.

thank you Wikipedia. You're still wrong tho

Then when do you think it was written and what is your source?

Fair enough, it was poorly phrased. Pretty much what I meant when is said 'peaks' was just the ones that aligned most with my personal taste I guess
Nonetheless if you guys got know some hidden gems feel free to share them

>I'm not even an avid anime watcher, but the peaks of the genre are fucking amazing

I am and I agree. Most anime is mediocre, but the best examples of it make it worthwhile. Most people here shitting on Ghibli are just begin contrarian.

>and thinking it has some "peaks" you need to hunt down is a really terrible way to approach it.

How? Are you denying that the best anime isn't far and away better than the typical seasonal schlock?

> All you'll get is the same 10 titles over and over again
Because most people only know about a limited number of titles and the more genuinely obscure good stuff isn't discussed much, even in more obsessed circles.

>Nonetheless if you guys got know some hidden gems feel free to share them
If you like Ghibli there are a bunch of old school magical girl series that you'd likely enjoy, but which are unfortunately either highly difficult to track down or don't even have an English translation. In lieu of that though you'd not be wasting your time if you were to watch the Anne of Green Gables anime. My favorite anime overall though would have to be Sailor Moon, as I've not seen anything else that achieves characterization like that on such an epic scale.

If anything, Spirited Away is underrated by western critics, who barely seem to comprehend or comment on its themes. It doesn't help that a decent portion of them would have watched it in the English dubbing, which basically ruins the plot, rewrites key scenes and completely alters the characterization, resulting in something closer to a Disney melodrama than what it is, which is otherwise easily the richest of all the Ghibli films.

>How? Are you denying that the best anime isn't far and away better than the typical seasonal schlock?
"The best anime" means 5-20 titles, most of them from before 2000. To put that into perspective, the current season (a three month period if someone doesn't know) has 47 new shows listed + 25 shorts and 14 movies.

It is common to see people claim that those 5-20 titles are the only good ones and you don't need to see anything else, especially if it was made in the 21st century. People have circle-jerked over the likes of Akira, Cowboy Bebop and Ghibli for so long that it has become taken for granted that they are the best and everything else is irrelevant.

Every TV anime is "seasonal." The way the word is often used as a pejorative is bizarre.

>"The best anime" means 5-20 titles, most of them from before 2000

In general, yeah, it does, and I see no problem with that. There are a larger number of good anime in a broader sense, but naturally the best of the best will be limited in number, especially compared to the bulk.

>To put that into perspective, the current season (a three month period if someone doesn't know) has 47 new shows listed + 25 shorts and 14 movies.

And out of those only a handful will be worth watching at best.

>People have circle-jerked over the likes of Akira, Cowboy Bebop and Ghibli

Now, I agree that these aren't necessarily among the best despite their specific merits and that there are many other titles that can be argued to be better contenders which aren't as popular. If that is simply what you are arguing against I don't disagree at all. But if you're arguing there isn't a huge gape in quality between what are the few hundred at best contenders and the ocean of mediocrity that is most anime, I don't know what to tell you.

>Every TV anime is "seasonal."

The 'seasonal' anime I refer to are mostly those produced one cour at a time for a specific, generally specialized audience who keep up with these things. Longer running anime directed at a more general audiences often, ironically, pander less and attract more talented staff for their key episodes despite things like budget issues and having to be more family friendly.

This year's Rakugo is real anime kino.

Ghibli is default praise material for our anglo-liberal overlords who have no idea whatsoever what being Japanese means and like what reminds them of Disney by being safe, unoffensive to their progressive sensibilities and mentally unchallenging.

Because it breaks the Disney narrative of "women are princesses and the guys are white knights".

It shows that every character, no matter how flawed, has the ability for redeeming themselves.

Furthermore, its probably one of the most impressive displays of character growth and development in a children's film ever.

Chihiro starts out as a little whiny bitch.

She gradually masters one little task step by step and she grows out of herself and her toddler-like persona.

Not only does she stop whining and being a brat, she also genuinely starts caring about others to such a degree, that she starts to put other's above herself.

Truly inspirational.

Shame that you didnt get it.

>extremely classy creator
>extremely bland story with generic morality tales
>well animated
>no mecha, tentacles, magical girls, energy blasts or anything else that makes anime fun

No wonder white liberal intellectuals eat this shit up. Its the same reason they think Haruki Murakami is God.

>Lupin is altruistic rather than a schemer
>Miyazaki is terrified of sexualizing women so Fujiko just shoots machine guns or something instead of her main trait of using her sexuality to get what she wants.

Guy has a point.

People didn't go through all the anime and decide that those 5-20 are the best. Anime that came to America was filtered through distributors and networks, and a handful of them came to be widely known (e.g. Akira, Evangelion, Bebop, Ghibli) and have been constantly recommended to everyone ever since. At the same time people constantly insist that nearly anything made after 1999 is shit. Repeat this long enough and it becomes taken for granted.

>And out of those only a handful will be worth watching at best.
The only way to find out is to watch them, which very few people will do because they already "know" they must be bad. "Worth watching" is typically defined as "immediately agreeable to any random Western viewer who has internalized all the latest anti-anime memes."

>But if you're arguing there isn't a huge gape in quality between what are the few hundred at best contenders and the ocean of mediocrity that is most anime, I don't know what to tell you.
Very few people set foot in that ocean, and even fewer are able to do so with any degree of objectivity and open-mindedness.

>The 'seasonal' anime I refer to are mostly those produced one cour at a time for a specific, generally specialized audience who keep up with these things. Longer running anime directed at a more general audiences often, ironically, pander less and attract more talented staff for their key episodes despite things like budget issues and having to be more family friendly.
OPM, AoT, Evangelion, Bebop and Lain were all short late night anime (Evangelion aired at first during the day but didn't become popular until the timeslot was changed). Perfectly mainstream-friendly shows like Flying Witch, Snow White, and Sweetness and Lightning also air late. The daytime show Kyokai no Rinne is produced two cours at a time with breaks in between. The Saturday morning show Time Travel Girl was 12 episodes and doesn't seem like it'll get a sequel.

Pandering is a meme and does not exist.

>This year's Rakugo is real anime kino.
Noitamina is airing this soon:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Passage_(anime)

Adapted from the same novel as:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Passage

Might be good.

Miyazaki films are fucking magic to me. So fucking pastoral.

>nime that came to America was filtered through distributors and networks, and a handful of them came to be widely known

And like I said I agree with you on this. The association of 'good anime' with "classic sci-fi series distributed in the west to popularity in the early '90s" is an issue, as you suggest, and it's something that more work should be put into overcoming. Ghibli is absolutely top tier though and I don't know what you'd suggest that would equal their output.

>The only way to find out is to watch them, which very few people will do because they already "know" they must be bad.

Again, there is much truth to this. What portion of anime fans have bothered to watch any WMT series, early shoujo like Aim for the Ace or other things along those lines? There is much good out there that I'd be happy to advocate. But very little of the 10,000+ anime in existence is on the level of the best, and I don't know how you could claim otherwise, there is meaningful reason to filter out the crap.

>Very few people set foot in that ocean
I'm happy to be among those willing to sort through the less popularly esteemed areas that are assumed by hte mainstream to only deserve being written off. Early '90s magical girl shows for isntance are an absolute goldmine of quality, but almost no one in polite society is willing to bother with them unless you go out of your way to recommend them.

>Pandering is a meme and does not exist.
I'm not claiming the anime should conform to me tastes or that everything falls into these specific categories, but god damn if there isn't so much shit out there, and fuck if I should be ashamed to call that out.

I really need to watch more anime movies.

I've been watching too much series and mostly hating them recently, so I might try out some Ghibli stuff.

The average stand alone anime film is way better than most series, you won't regret watching more Ghibli, excepting that you might end up even more disappointed with watching running series.

...

>But very little of the 10,000+ anime in existence is on the level of the best, and I don't know how you could claim otherwise
I am trying to point out that people fixate on 0.1% of anime and mostly just make assumptions about the rest and only watch what the masses have deemed safe for Western consumption. It has become taken for granted that of course there's only a handful of good anime, or of course there's only one good anime made per year, and of course 90-99% of modern anime are "harem"/"moe" and adapted from light novels (which are all bad and all the same), and so on. Case closed, no need to investigate further.

People either don't watch anything or when they do they bring so much baggage with them that they may as well not bother. For many self-proclaimed anime fans simply watching undubbed anime is already a bridge too far, everything has to be as safe and familiar as possible. Anime has to adapt to them, not the other way around. They sit around waiting for occasional breakout hits like One Punch Man to wash up on the shore and complain there's nothing to watch.

>god damn if there isn't so much shit out there, and fuck if I should be ashamed to call that out.
Something isn't pandering just because you don't like it. There has never been a single proven case of pandering, yet people regularly claim it to be a widespread problem.

Its a shallow mass produced flick that has some gorgeous animation and is foreign so they can claim to like it and seem cultured

Rose Of Versailles is pretty popular.
Magical Girl shit is in no way a goldmine there is some gold in it but its a fucking pool of trope filled shit

I didn't know 11 features since 1979 is "mass production." He directed less features than Kurosawa and Ozu.

Nah,
Spirited > Porco > Nausicaa > Ponyo > Laputa > Totoro > Mononoke > Kiki's > Howls

Studio Ghibli releases movies less than 2 years apart.

Laputa > Kiki's > Porco > Nausicaa > Spirited > Mononoke > Totoro > Ponyo > Howls

thats all messed up to be honest, senpai

nausicaa > porco > spirited > howls > mononoke > laputa > kiki > totoro

Ghibli has had more directors than just Miyazaki, and Ghibli's pace is glacial compared to major film studios.

It is still a studio that makes lots and lots of samey generic shit western audiences like

wrong. mononoke is the best, all others are meh-tier as fuck

Since 1986 they have released 21 features.

Generic is not a valid term and the fact that Western audiences like Ghibli is not an argument.

>evangelion is over and mr. anno takes a new dump on his series every day with the movies

what did he mean by this?

>My favorite anime overall though would have to be Sailor Moon, as I've not seen anything else that achieves characterization like that on such an epic scale.

Characterization could have been better imo. Sailor Moon has a lot of characters, but actually most of the cast (including the inner senshi) is useless and forgotten after the second season. Super S was a complete waste of time and I don't even remember seeing Naru and Umaro in the last season even though they were Usagi's friends. Even Usagi's family was completely left out at the end, same thing with Rei's grandpa and Yuuichirou, it's like they never existed.
At least they put a lot of effort into making good villains/monsters.

Mononoke and spirited way and that one with the girl and the little people were boring as fuck.

Porco Rosso, Nausicaa, whisper of the heart, are all great.

I really enjoyed Ponyo for some reason. That town looked comfy as fuck.

definitely comfy-core. those cozy houses by the sea

>Magical Girl shit is in no way a goldmine

See, I understand why you'd think that, since many of semi-popular examples of it are quite bad. It's the really niche shit that most people in their right mind would never check out unless you specifically point out that they might be worth a watch that I'm talking about. I mean seriously, try even mentioning Creamy Mami to anyone who isn't utterly, hideously into anime. Or in the same breath ESPer Mami (no, there is no relation aside from genre), which will probably make them want to call child protection services. There's basically only a select number of connoisseurs you can bring this up with.

Care to elaborate on that?

>pleb watches Spirited Away
>never watches another anime film
>Spirited Away is therefore the best

also "muh Disney"

>Characterization could have been better imo.

For a lot of characters this is the case, especially the 'boyfriends', but I've yet to see another series with such a large cast of interesting well developed characters.

>Super S was a complete waste of time
No. I'm sorry but this is such absolute bullshit. I'm absolutely an advocate of watching Sailor Moon for the actual plot, which his lacking here, but SuperS does so much shit right that I never expected it too seeing the internet shits on it so much, that I was shocked at how much I actually enjoyed it. It would absolutely have to be the most underappreciated season of SoL anime ever, and is rock solid in most every way I expected it to be bad. I mean Christ, we have half an entire season basically about date-raping pickup artists. I have no idea how anyone could say that SuperS doesn't handle it's MotW better than any other season at least. None of the prior seasons would even dare to have it's style of humor and it does more with the long running characters from the first season than anything else aside from that.

It is the best though.

Laputa = Nausicaä > Mononoke > Porco > Spireted = Totoro > Kiki > Ponyo = Howls

why the hate for howls?
it tends to be near the bottom of these lists
(and Laputa =/= Nausicaä, N is way better)

>why the hate for howls?

It's a well produced, but ultimately stupid movie. You can't defend the direction the plot took.

Nausicaä > Laputa > Mononoke > Spirited > Howl > Wind > Kiki > Cagliostro > Howl > Porco > Ponyo

You should remember being on the bottom list of Miyazaki movies still makes it better then 98% of anime

>better then 98% of anime that I have not seen and don't know anything about
There, fixed.

t. anime pro

no

No, only because moeshit makes your weewee hard doesn't mean it's better then Ghibli movies

>moeshit makes your weewee hard
You are projecting your own shameful obsession with masturbation. So-called moe anime has very little to no sexual content.

And I didn't say anything about something being better than Ghibli movies.

>chinks poorly imitate Western cartoons

Spirited Away is Japanese and is not an imitation of cartoons or even vaguely similar to them.

user, if I would open the catalog of Cred Forums right now I would find at least three threads that sexualise little girls.

David Lynch pls go.

What about it?

Somehow I knew you would say that, but the very fact that you don't see a problem in this disqualifies you in any further discussion

What problem do you think it indicates, and how is it related to what I said?

Because you're a contrarian faggot that hates everything remotely good or popular. Like that fag that keeps pushing Porco Rosso as the best Ghibli.

The Wind Rises >>>>>>>> Miyazaki Shit

...I have no words.