All style no substance

>couldn't follow what was going on
The plot is extremely simple. All the themes are spelled out deliberately in dialogue, and then again through the most direct, obvious symbolic imagery. It would be pretty much impossible to miss the point of this movie. Love him or hate him, you have to agree that Refn is NOT subtle

Style AS substance, pleb.

what did the leon on her room represent?

Perfection in the world of professional modeling is very different than what most men are actually attracted to.

Refn was a one hit wonder with Drive

you mean one hit blunder with ogf

Refn fell off after Drive.

prove me wrong.

these works don't even come close to his works like Valhalla

>leon
He was there for the real lolita shit

Bought into his own hype.

Sadly happens to so many across all types of art/sports

it has the best keanu, and that's more than enough
>the girl is only 13

I would agree with you if I didn't repeatedly keep seeing people claim this film had no story or else wildly misinterpret the obvious
>look mum Im shitposting!

I really liked it

so noone can tell me what did the zebra in her room meant or represent? her wilderness?

>style no substance

Anyone who uses this phrase should kill themselves.

>Anyone who uses this phrase should kill themselves.

Anyone who uses this phrase should end his existence.

OGF and TND are way more meticulous and better paced than Valhalla Rising. I don't get why some people praise that film so much.

>substance
what does this even mean? You want a movie to solve your irl problems?

>what does this even mean?

They don't really know. That's why retards always use that phrase, so they don't have to come up with real arguments.

Why does the IQlet with no cinematic skill set keep posting in these threads??
>chang xD
>space post
Seriously lads

>all style no substance
lol opinion discarded m8, try having real criticism instead of meme words

>you will never hold Jena Malone as she periods out her guts and dies happy because, for a brief moment, she was pure

stop samefagging Refn

>implying she dies there

DRIVE was the start of his downhill

why did he miss the chance to call the movie The semen demon?

>implying anyone can survive losing a gallon of blood

>implying it was blood

The whole thing tried to do the whole Lynch "2deep4me" thing. Yes, I understood the themes, symbolism, etc. It was boring af, had nothing in particular to say that hasn't already been said a thousand times (boohoo muh fashion industry is vapid and shallow.)

Its like it was made to cater to normie deepfags who want to pretend they're artsy and cultured.

Also, check'em

It was made like that for cinematic effect you mongoloid. I hope you're not the same retard I argued with about this earlier.

>cinematic effect
hahahahaha
oh wait, you're serious? let me laugh harder

So its Mulholland Drive for millenials?

user I think you may have autism.

>The whole thing tried to do the whole Lynch "2deep4me" thing. Yes, I understood the themes, symbolism, etc

You understanding everything should be a clue that it's not trying to be "2deep4you". Nothing about the film is trying to be complex symbolically, it intentionally throws everything in your face. Comparing it to Lynch is retarded.

>had nothing in particular to say that hasn't already been said a thousand times (boohoo muh fashion industry is vapid and shallow.)

It was not trying to have a "message" to the viewer, it seems like you have a deep misunderstanding of how Refn makes films. Films that try to have a specific message are frankly juvenile, like you.

>But when she’s devoured, three things happen: Jena Malone’s character, who initiates this whole ceremony of beauty, menstruates again, has something flowing through her. Bella Heathcote, who wants to manufacture her own beauty, dies — because that’s the one thing that you can’t do. And then there’s Abbey Lee, the supermodel, who felt like a ghost, but finds everything within her again, by eating the thing that Jesse is.

villagevoice.com/film/neon-demon-auteur-nicolas-winding-refn-on-his-fluorescent-narcissism-8793915

Can you shut up about it now, imbecile?

>Pusher 1 is like post-punk. Bleeder is glam rock. Fear X is Eno, who ended up making the music for the movie. Pusher II was Iron Maiden. Pusher 3 was Neil Diamond. Bronson was Pet Shop Boys. Valhalla Rising - Einstürzende Neubauten. So I can only write a movie when I know what it's going to sound like.
What is Neon Demon then?

>implying that just because her ending wasn't sad, she lived
She was clearly reborn
Jena Malone even talks about this in an interview

I thought it was better than Only God Forgives.

OGF was patrician as fuck tho.

>Comparing it to Lynch is retarded.
Not the same poster, but Lynch's influence is all over Refn's movies. Not just the oblique storytelling, but the visual style, the use of music, the deliberately stilted performances, pretty much everything

I thought we were over the "pretending I like ogf" to look like a connoisseur

Listen to the commentary track if you still have trouble grasping this. There is nothing else to say, either you're legitimately retarded or trolling me at this point.

Replace Fear X with this

>oblique storytelling

The storytelling in Drive, OGF and TND could not be more straightforward.

Exactly.

Ok, then what is this fabled "point" that we didn't get that deepfags are always going on about with this film? Apart from some cool visuals, its incredibly boring. The story is incredibly simple and the dialogue is alright at best and awkward at worst. But not in a way that its entertainingly bad.

What is the entertainment value of this film?

>all style no substance
and he stretches each scene like its an ambient song. this isnt music, use a scene for what it has and move on. you really want to bore your viewers?

>getting mad that someone doesn't agree with his interpretation of a surrealist film
Are you legit autistic? Does this happen to you frequently?

>What is the entertainment value of this film?

>Ok, then what is this fabled "point" that we didn't get that deepfags are always going on about with this film?

No one is doing that, that's a strawman.

>The story is incredibly simple

That's not a bad thing.

>and the dialogue is alright at best and awkward at worst.

It is the way it is to create the desired aesthetic.

>What is the entertainment value of this film?

There is no way for me to make you enjoy something you don't enjoy. If you don't like a song there's nothing I can say that would make you suddenly like it.

Nicolas Winding Refn is such a manicured stylist that a horror thriller set in the fashion world seems like the perfect project for the Danish director. And The Neon Demon, a propulsive vehicle for lavish Eurotrash-y images, like the prismatic one of Elle Fanning feigning a make-out session with two of her diamond-refracted reflections, at first plays like a slicker version of Darren Aranofsky's frenetic Black Swan—a formidable piece of cool, giallo-inspired genre work. Refn isn't interested in pretensions of psychological depth, nor does the filmmaker adapt self-conscious art-film tropes like Black Swan's Dardennes-esque tracking shots. In fact, discounting a few painfully awkward dialogue scenes, The Neon Demon's first half makes the film seem like Refn's most surface-level-satisfying work since Drive.

Refn's latest, however, ultimately has more in common with the director's previous film, the nightmarish, Bangkok-set drug-smuggling thriller Only God Forgives, which trafficked in a deplorable sense of morality, but at least felt like it revealed the director grappling with some deeply personal issues in the process. The Neon Demon, equally brutal and calculating in its acts of violence, also engages some really disconcerting ideas about women, and in particular beautiful women. Refn has said that he believes an obsession with beauty leads to a unique kind of madness, and that he's seen it firsthand—in a career working with models for brands like Gucci, YXL, and Hennessy. The Neon Demon, though, isn't interested in empathizing with this condition, but rather cynically reveling in it, and ruthlessly exploiting its abuses.

no

Watched it yesterday. I really liked drive and OGF to some extent as well. Was waiting whole movie for the moment "it will get gud". It never happened. I liked chapter 3, was expecting more of similar crap. Second half of the movie felt very rushed, I didnt really feel the metamorphosis of protagonist.

Gigi and her friend were pretty hot. Based Keanu as always. Boring "story", dialogues and meaningless "visions" (tripforce?).
I liked the music though.

Fanning stars as Jesse, a 16-year-old aspiring model who's instructed by the talent agency that signed her to tell co-workers that she's 19 (“Eighteen is too on the nose,” her representative says). An older make-up artist, Ruby (Jena Malone), becomes a sisterly figure for the recently orphaned Jesse, and tries to help her fit in by introducing her to Gigi (Bella Heathcote) and Sarah (Abbey Lee), two veteran models who are at first amused, and later direly threatened, by Jesse's rapid ascent within the competitive L.A. fashion world.

For a while, Fanning's subtle combination of the fair and the feral seems like the perfect representation for a film that essentially forgoes horror tropes for a compelling look at beauty in constant but unrealized peril. In fact, The Neon Demon's best scenes play on this tension—like the strobe-lit sequence that lights faces, from various striking angles, as they glower in frozen formation on the dance floor of a club, or the dramatic transition between an all-white to a pitch-black room during one of Jesse's photo shoots.

Unfortunately, the simmering insinuations of The Neon Demon's promising first hour eventually flower into full-on exploitation, with targets ranging from evil lesbianism to violence committed in the name of women's sexual rivalries. The film loses the thread of whatever nascent commentary on male-imposed beauty standards it may have been building toward with the introduction of a handful of misogynistic side characters: a greasy motel owner, Hank (Keanu Reeves), who tries to pimp out a 13-year-old “lolita” in room 214; Jesse's disgusted boyfriend, Dean (Karl Glusman); and a sexist fashion magnate (Alessandro Nivola) who has a mini-orgasm in his chair the first time he sees Jesse's lithe, young body stride into his auditioning room.

It's barely even surrealistic. What happens in the film is so obvious that yes, it does trigger me when retards can't grasp something that obvious.

Refn ultimately succumbs to his own fetishistic vices, filming a bloody shower scene like Carrie by way of Wild Things and playing one character's indigestion following a cannibalistic episode for cruel comedy. The Neon Demon is a stylish satire delegitimized by its own lust objects—by a director who can't stop getting off on the sick ideas he seemed like he might upend.

I'm not pretending you fucker, I really liked it.

>all style no substance
refn fans would argue that style IS substance

refn fans are dumb plebs though

>says the guy saying the gallon of blood was for cinematic effect
at least stay consistent in your stupidity

>The film loses the thread of whatever nascent commentary on male-imposed beauty standards it may have been building toward with the introduction of a handful of misogynistic side characters

Which fucking idiot wrote this review?

>Fashion history is among many insights in Michelangelo Antonioni’s 1955 masterpiece Le Amiche (The Girlfriends, above), newly restored in a polished Criterion Blu-Ray. In the suspense plot, Antonioni features glamourous actresses (Eleanora Rossi Drago, Yvonne Furneaux, Valentina Cortese, Madeleine Fischer, Anna Maria Pancani) as women unfulfilled by their bourgeois fashionista status. This glorious and devastating film is also a time capsule of mid-20 th century chic. The clothes look great and the dress-up always expresses personality—both social position and spiritual.

>Le Amiche goes deeper than Sex in the City. (For instance, Rossi Drago laments her ghetto background). Its profundity preserves the era of Schiaparelli, Dior, and Givenchy, never resorting to horror movie vulgarity. Antonioni knew what Hollywood’s butch-styled genius designer Edith Head knew when she remarked “Fashion is character.” But The Neon Demon cheapens fashion and femininity. Remember how Pauline Kael threw shade at Mike Nichols’ Carnal Knowledge: “It’s like a neon sign spelling out the soullessness of neon.”

Bravo armond!

>Amount of blood in bathtub
>Amount of blood from menstruation

These are both exaggerated for cinematic effect

>Gigi forcibly killing herself because "you can't manufacture beauty"
>Jesse's eye coming out whole

These are the only unrealistic/magical parts in the whole movie. So yes, it's barely even surrealistic

>Refn is criticized for being misogynist
>brought in two women to write the script with him
>a woman produced the movie with him (she's also the co-founder of his production company)
>hired a female cinematographer which is extremely rare in the film industry because she was the cheapest one lel

>Confirmed for deepfag who pretends to like shit to appear intelligent
You're dancing around the issue. I'm not saying its going to make me "like" the film. There are plenty of things I don't "like," but I can see the appeal.

I'm asking for the appeal of Neon Demon apart from its ability to give deepfags and excuse to pretend to be deep by liking it.

For example, "Friday the 13th" is not recognized as having a good plot, acting, dialogue, but is enjoyed by many because it caters to people who enjoy gore, tits, cheese, etc.

Birdman has entertaining dialogue, characters, and is overall an interesting character study.

I didn't enjoy either of these movies, but I can see the appeal.

Now what is this for the Neon Demon?

I read the whole review and he doesn't produce a single argument. You're welcome to point out to the part where he does.

>everything's to be taken at face value and is real
>except for these 2 things that my autism says can't be
kek

>Now what is this for the Neon Demon?
The audio/visual aesthetics. I don't know how you don't understand this after you just said you can understand why people can enjoy a film beyond story and acting.

is this consider an argument still?
archive.4plebs.org/tv/search/image/yxiDC2PSCVGxfanqE8o7YA/

This post proves that you didn't understand the film at all. The Neon Demon is the complete opposite of what Lynch does. Lynch creates films focused on the mind while The Neon Demon is a very physical film. Instead of using layers upon layers like Lost Highway or Mulholland Dr. for example, The Neon Demon is as simple as it gets and is an incredibly superficial film on purpose. It is 'just' a voyeur trip into a warped fairy tale idea of the modelling scene. It has no message (and none of Lynch's usual films have any either).

so all style no substance then?

>Now what is this for the Neon Demon?

I can only speak for myself but it was the whole audiovisual experience paired with the performances (especially Jena Malone). I enjoyed every second of it from the opening credits to the end, and have done so 4 times already. A lot of people talk about the story but that's mostly irrelevant to me in terms of enjoyment.

214! has to be seen! I really enjoyed this film.

What is substance?
Again you seem to have no problem with people liking shit like Friday the 13th just for the edgy shit alone.

Op is right then?

REAL

is this your first refn?

Lady Gaga

Just finished reading the original script
Wow, the ending is so different... I really recommend anyone who loved the film to give it a read

In general, it really accentuates how terribly Jesse treats Dean. The girls are all more brutal actually, except Ruby who shows considerably more compassion and regrets killing Jesse

The ending is darker but I think it's more poignant and bittersweet

All art is style. Substance is what you read into it.

should i watch Valhalla Rising?

I guess thats a no then huh

Bland style, bland acting, bland screenwriting. No substance whatsoever. Refn is like a lobotomized Lynch

I wasn't in OGF threads, I hadn't have seen the film back then

No arguments whatsoever. Try again, sport.

OGF is so underrated, its one of refns best films on par with drive once you get past the fact it wasnt meant to be anything like drive. The story, the character, the visuals and soundtrack all work so well for the story, and yes there is a story there

Couldn't be bothered trying to convince you, it's just my value judgement

At least explain what "substance" is supposed to mean

a coherent structured story and meaningful character arcs

wtf are u retarded? movie suckdd

dont make it out to have some deeper meaning that isnt there, it just makes you look like a tryhard. that said its not that bad if you accept it for what it is.

But this film had both of those, very clearly. Some would even say too clearly. I don't understand you.

Cred Forums only likes it for le lesbian rape scene

care to explain rather than just make statements?

This! The whole movie I felt like the other actress are far more attractive. Elle twisted face annoy me. she is not even exotic beauty

Of course there is a story in OGF. unlike in Neon Demon, where some random plots are never resolved and just threw in for the sake of "deeep".
Like Jaguar in a room, conversation about moon, triforce visuals and rape of Lolita nextdoor.

someone pls post it

having substance =/= being full of really subtle sub-text that you have to spend hours analysing to understand

Well for one the story is extremely simple and progresses logically. I don't see a single part that could be deemed "incoherent" so you'd have to help with that.

The characters on the other hand all have meaning tied to them because they're more representations of ideas than real people. Abbey's character is the aging model who feels like a ghost because of girls like Elle, she regains her life when she devours her. Bella's character tries to manufacture beauty but ultimately dies because that can't be done. Jesse starts off innocent, succumbs to narcissism and dies because of it. It's all very simple and logical so I don't know what you mean.

Oh, and as an addendum, I don't see why a character needs an "arc" in the sense that they change as people. That seems like an unnecessary restriction.

>Bella's character tries to manufacture beauty but ultimately dies because that can't be done. Jesse starts off innocent, succumbs to narcissism and dies because of it. It's all very simple and logical so I don't know what you mean.
because those are barley explored and theres maybe 15 minutes total screentime that isnt muh amazing cool visuals, and the second half is a dreamlike mess

great idea, poor execution on refns part

There's nothing to explore there, that wouldn't fit the film at all if it tried to delve into the psychology of it. As I said, they're not even real people but representations.

>I can't follow a story unless the characters are constantly describing what's happening and their personalities
Do you enjoy the flicks of Christopher Nolan?

>all style no substance
Literally every Refn flick.

>watching models being bitches is boring as fuck
Allow me to disagree

wasnt paying a lot of attention to the movie, who raped the lolita, was it keanu?
Did the ugly models actually eat jesse?
what was with the lesbian girl and all that blood?

you must be every girl's bestie if you enjoy girls drama and bitchery

Why did you even watch the film?

Please link?

okay ive decided im going to watch valhalla rising

Yes.

Background while I work
I dont care about your opinion

:)

Ah, this brings me back to the say when Cred Forums said Drive was good.

No, I'm a lonely beta faggot

But girls drama and bitchery is much more interesting than men drama and bitchery. And in my experience men are bitchier than women.

You disgust me.

delete

you don't have much experience in women then

What did he mean by this?

don't rub it in my face