I have to go and run an errand, Cred Forums! But I don't wan't to take my grandpa's antique puzzle box into the store...

Bro you're just giving them a head start

Laugh at your constipation

Is it actually Hell inside the box, or just a hellish dimension where you're mutilated by a bunch of BDSM monsters?

Not the Christian hell per se, but a world where pain and pleasure are indistinguishable

kek

Can I pour chocolate milk on it?

Don't cross the memes, Ray!

This gif is literally communism.

In the first two movies it was a place of pure experience (ecstasy and anguish). Later on it was just hell.

Alright

I'm going to be honest here guys

I only watch horror films for the mandatory sex scenes in them.

What horror films should I watch to get the best sex scenes?

How do you become one of them ?

Se7en

You gotta know a guy.

It looks pretty shit in HD.

I hope that's just chocolate with milk

It's literally the opposite.

Pretty random process. Early on only a very select few could become cenobites- everyone else was just flesh to play with. Three is when random victims started becoming cenobites.

>fucking Camera Cenobite

Thanks for clearing that up.

Another question:
The Cenobites like pain/pleasure and get pleasure from causing pain. How come they don't get mortals to inflict pain on them or torture each other?

I think they do or have done so for so long it does nothing for them anymore. The only joy we see Pinhead take from anything is sorrow, not necessarily physical pain. Which makes sense if the other denizens of the labyrinth are already numb to corporeal torture and broken.

Frank from the first movie wasn't stuck there for all that long and he barely gives a shit while being torn apart.

WTF is a cenobite anyway?

>that communism is literally gif
or
>that webm is figuratively market liberalism

?
i'm confus

it's a bite size ceno

I've watched 1 and 2. Is there any point watching more than that? Do they just get worse and worse?

I have to go and run an errand, Cred Forums! But I don't wan't to take my grandpa's antique pendant into the store. I'll leave it with you, I know I can trust you.

It's very valuable, an antique, so just watch it and don't touch it, okay? And DON'T GET ANY BLOOD ON IT. I've never played with it, it's very delicate. Okay, bye!

3 and 4 are cheesy stupid fun, imo. 5 is worth watching for it's weird Silent Hill-esque story. The rest are shit.

Now this I like

Your stupid.

It's a bite from a Ceno.

I have to go and run an errand, Cred Forums! But I don't wan't to take my grandpa into the store. I'll leave him with you, I know I can trust you.

He's very valuable, an antique, so just watch him and don't touch him, okay? And DON'T GET ANY BLOOD ON HIM. I've never played with him, he's very delicate. Okay, bye!

You all got it wrong

It's 8 cenobit

I let Hillary borrow it, did I do good?

>Frank from the first movie wasn't stuck there for all that long and he barely gives a shit while being torn apart.
Frank fucking hated what he experienced, that's why he was so desperate to escape. He was in agony when he was being ripped apart in the climax, but had a brief moment at the end of enjoyment when he said jesus wept. There are bound to be moments like that, but for the vast majority of his time he wanted out.

>Ready for your close-up, Joy?
Clive Barker truly is a genius.

underrated as fuck

>jesus wept
what did he mean by this? Seriously?

In the first movie, they judge your worth after you summon them with the cube, and decide who to take on a case-by-case basis. If they decide you're unworthy, they just leave. If they decide you are worthy, they take you with them and do their thing until you gradually become one of them. It's notable that their first victim, Frank, actually had to convince them to take him, because they didn't think he could handle the Cenobite lifestyle. The girl who summons them later, however, is such a promising prospect that they actually renege on their agreement to let her go and try to drag her away against her will.

In later movies they are just monsters that turn victims into more monsters.

dude you sound like an expert, please answer i legit don't get it. Is that just a cool thing to say?

it's an obscure curse that was somewhat more common in the 20th century. it basically just means "Goddammit"

What Frank meant by it was "God-Fucking-Dammit I can't believe this is happening again! I thought I was gonna get away for sure", but the limitations of the prosthetics prevented the actor from emoting correctly

ahh ok, thanks

Hellraiser threads are among my favorite on Cred Forums

DELET THIS

>GIVE ME THAT FUCKING MONEY SHOT YOU WHORE
I think Barker went a little too far with this line.

It's actually not any of that.

The actor ad libbed the line.

Hellraiser 5 Inferno doesn't get nearly as much love as it deserves. Damned great mind fuck of a straight to video masterpiece.

1>2>5>4>3>7>9>8>6

Except it is. Its an expletive taken from the shortest verse in the bible, two words: jesus wept.

Who here Tiffany?

You're both right.

He adlibbed the line because the original line "Fuck you" didn't sound right to the actor.

I thought the Cenobites do not necessarliy torture their victims in the labyrinth. See Frank when he gets to fuck as many sluts as he wants.

>NO!
>No?
>NO! IT'S NOT HANDS THAT CALLED US....IT IS DESIRE!

...

They get a mix of pleasure and pain until the two sensations are indiscernible. Remember Frank was also skinless.

"Jesus wept." (John 11:35) is known for being the shortest bible verse in the King James Bible, which is one of the major English language bibles, and basically THE bible for Protestants, i.e. a large chunk of the Anglophone world and the non-latin west.

Although I was aware of what I've described above before writing this post, wiki informs me both of the actual location in the bible (John, John is one of the Gospels, which are kind of a big deal in Christianity), and also of the context, which is the Lazarus story, something I didn't know before writing this post. The context is, Jesus goes to visit his buddy Lazarus only to find out that he's too late, Lazarus is dead. Hence, Jesus Wept and up and said Nope You're Alive Again Lazarus, and behold God put a Senzu Bean in Lazarus' mouth and he walked out of the cave alive and well.

Wiki even has a section which basically serves as an excuse to just list the pop cultural references to the line (wiki discourages this type of thing but people often use wiki for this exact type of information so they just style the "trivia/in popular culture" sections with more serious-sounding names), which is what people like us really care about. Hellraiser is mentioned, and also Lawrence of Arabia which you should watch one time if you haven't already. The Lawrence context of the line is that this journalist guy is making his living by following Lawrence around and documenting his exploits, but after Lawrence was buttraped in a Turkish prison, he went off and brutally murdered the next group of Turks that he could get his hands on once he was free, in an insane act of revenge. Upon seeing Lawrence's carnage, the journalist manages "Jesus Wept!", an exclamation along the lines of "god damn this is really fucked up and awful, it must make Jesus cry" or similar. "God's teeth", "God's wounds", or "strewth" or "zounds" of older English express similar ideas as expletive-forms.

THE BOX
YOU OPENED IT
WE CAME

>Three is when random victims started becoming cenobites.
That was because Pinhead needed soldiers fast, so he fastracked the process.

>The Cenobites like pain/pleasure and get pleasure from causing pain. How come they don't get mortals to inflict pain on them or torture each other?
You see how they look? that`s painful enough, besides, what would mortals have to teach them about sadomasoquism?

Frank is in """"HELL"""" nigger. You didn't pay attention.

The writing nubile sluts that materialize on the beds in the second movie disappear just as soon as you actually try to get on top of them. Frank is a sex fiend and so this is one element of his own private Hell. The character even fucking explains all of this in plain language, playing Captain Exposition for a moment.

The director is on the record in a commentary track as saying that he hated that scene, because he felt that it ruined the pacing and was a sort of dead end.

Back to WHY Frank said Jesus Wept, What Did He Mean By This. First the idea that it's an ad lib is quite cool and I hope that that's true. Good job for the actor if true. Second, although this interpretation of the line is valid , (and obvious given the context of what is going on), I prefer a slightly more involved interpretation of Frank's intentionality. When you watch the movie, it's not JUST "ah god-damnit they got me again", although that's an obvious first layer.

There's more to it. As explained throughout the original film, Frank has intimate knowledge of exactly what the Cenobites are. He does very badly want to get away of course, but he also has vaguely complimentary/suggestive language of what being put through their meat grinder is actually like. It's not entirely, uniformly unpleasant, although the following can also be interpreted as Frank just happy to be back on earth, about to force himself on his niece:

"I used to tell myself that. Used to try and pretend I was dreaming all the pain. But don't you kid yourself. Some things have to be endured. And that makes the pleasures so much sweeter!"

Also the "beyond limits" pain/pleasure indivisible stuff. All of this is vaguely transcendent language which is also suggestive of certain BDSM concepts, which of course is another major theme.

cont.

Nice fingerbox man

...

cont.

Why did Frank say "Jesus Wept"? There are a host of related reasons which go one layer deeper than "god-damnit they got me again!", although this context with the above line being used as an expletive is obvious.

The other reasons:

-Frank knows exactly what he is being plunged back into, and he is driven mad, very much Lovecraft-style, right at the precipice. Sometimes, when you're just completely fucked, you have to laugh, which is often a laughter of madness. This is both something real, and also used for dramatic effect in movies.

-In the course of his madness, Frank almost seems to taunt Kirsty with his last words. Licking his own lips, dramatically. He seems to get a certain sour pleasure from her fear, because in a sense he IS deflowering her: "This is the horrible universe that we live in. These are the things that actually take place. I have lost my innocence, and in some sense found exactly what I was looking for. And now, you have lost your innocence too." Frank kinda-sorta-gets off on this, although of course he'd much rather be in top-mode.

By extension, Frank the sex addict, reprobate and overall pervert may even extend this idea to the literal Christ, who is presumably watching all of this going on. And Frank may even take a same certain sour pleasure from the idea that something that is being done to him is making God cry. I'd feel like saying something along the lines of Fuck You God, too, in such a situation.

So in my view the real reason why Frank conjures up Jesus Wept is because he has gone mad at moment of his re-damnation, yet he takes a pleasure in in some sense "hurting" Kirsty, though not as he would like to have done, and as sort of a curse against God, throwing the shitty world that God allows to go on back in his face. This is my read on things.

Kill yourself my man.

That's some quality posting right there

A priest of the Order of the Gash

he was supposed to say "Fuck you, bitch!" or something like that, but andrew robinson didn't like it, so he adlibbed that in one of the takes. based garak

While slowly mutilating you in the most painful ways possible, yeah.

I agree. Ultimately i think the comment was meant to be a sarcastic and ironic representation abandonment; of his life, of his morals, and quite literally his flesh.

That's what makes this a great horror film. It's full of thought provoking content about human nature.

yep, multiple links are bearing out the veracity of the ad-lib story. Or more specifically, that Andrew Robinson convinced Barker that he should use that line instead, got okayed to do it, and then did so. I don't know about Robinson's other output but getting this line, at this time and in this way into the movie, may be his greatest accomplishment as an actor, and to Barker's credit he had enough artistry to ultimately okay it, if that's how it went down. And now we get to think about what the line means, talk about it and wonder over it, because there's some actual art in its use, its context here.

Angelheart

And it is also this general abandon (great word for this), this life of dissipation that Frank has led, which has terminated in this fashion (pretty-much literally going to Hell), which should cause Jesus to weep.

I was surprised to learn that Barker is Christian (I'm not familiar with him or with his work outside of the Hellraiser connection), but the idea that he is would suggest that he is closer to an understanding of this above sense of a tragedy of loss of souls which Christians are supposed to feel, oh people go to Hell, how sad. Now I don't know what Barker was personally about at the time that he made the movie, but the idea that he is now a Christian (suggesting an arc, a life-path at odds with his homosexuality). In this way, Robinson's line delivery and context even connote a genuinely Christian tragedy, pushing one layer further into a historical read.

Which ironically all got started in a round-about way with the simple quotation of a literal Bible verse.

also in the first movies, the puzzle box was pretty hard to solve but in later movies if you just nudge it with your elbow or look at it sideways it pops open

Each fart opens a new portal

...

it would be extremely painful

Yes, but, you're looking at the meaning behind it in context to The Bible.

The line in the movie was just ad libbed; so any inference you have to its meaning is purely your creation.

reading through all the explanations in the thread, these are the closest.

i also like to think that given the context - and i may be reading too much into this - that frank is referring to his own impending rebirth. the destruction of his physical body and impending resurrection as a cenobite, similar to how lazarus was resurrected.

Fucking great posts

Serbian Film

Also Antichrist.

Same here. They usually have great discussion

underrated

Was the Hobo in the first one the actual Devil, completely different from the Cenobites, or just another Cenobite?

The ancillary characters of the original film bear an oblique (odd, weird) relationship to the analogous ones mentioned in the novella. I haven't read the novella in many years but it mentions "the Engineer" as a creature in the background, possibly running the whole show, Leviathan-style maybe. The goofy model-thing that harasses Kirsty a couple of times (you can literally see grips' feet pushing the model on wheels if you freeze it) is the stand-in for this.

Then there's the entity that watches over the box. There are three aspects given in the film. There's the asian guy in the market, the hobo, and the "final form" skellington dragon that picks the box up out of the fire and whisks it away. Perhaps they are all the same entity, or perhaps the one is the dog/gofer of the other?

I don't think they're (it's) cenobites, though, but perhaps a lower form(s) that just keeps the game going. You may be getting the Devil himself idea from multiple tropes: the devil is popularly depicted as a "dealmaker", and the film opens with a deal. Also, the hobo wanders the earth, just as Satan is supposed to do. Also a winged skellington-dragon is a convincing final-form which evokes Satan via Baphomet imagery, true form as a Beast, etc.

For these reasons, I did personally have a vague idea to myself that this character was/is the Devil, like you, but on repeated viewings that's not quite right, I think.

I think that these aspects are suggestive of The Devil Himself but not literally such.

hellraiser.wikia.com/wiki/Derelict,_The_Puzzle_Guardian

The real purpose of the character is to mysteriously suggest that there is a whole evil infrastructure keeping the whole game going, periodically fishing out fresh new victims, down to a science. It's also a cute way to assure the possibility of a further sequel, like any given creature coming back to life/opening its eyes in the final scene, but less hokey.

this guy knows what he likes

tfw you you never be able to make it with two sexy cenobite sisters and get put into eternal torment

Yessss and yes

Hostel 2
If you want to get off watching a milf bathing in virgin blood

>Cenobites determine your worth, if they like you they take you, if they don't they leave your sorry ass

So what's worse? Not being special enough or actually going?

When Channard is finally converted and says "and to think, I almost hesitated" it makes me wonder what the joys of being a cenobite are

Friday the 13th II
Nightmare on Elm Street 3
Friday the 13th (remake)
Return of the Living Dead

Those are the pinnacles of horror nudity.

>those effects for the engineer
so bad

just wanted to add that Clive Barker himself cameos in the first movie as the creepy hobo.

apparently the engineer was supposed to be a 5th cenobite character but they didn't have the budget so they whipped together a cheap looking rubber monster instead

Cenobite waifu coming through

>yfw the first time the Leviathan is seen, the trumpets play out the Morse code for God

I recently re-watched Zombi 2 and it also contains an extended dive scene with a very cute actress who goes "European" (only wearing a slight bottom in addition to her scuba gear); while below, she is molested (read: attacked and generally harassed, not raped).

Claimed

Trivia time:

This was the first cenobite to appear on screen.

If memory serves me, I think you have to throw it into Mount Doom

that'll do pig, that'll do

K

All of this is wrong. So fucking wrong.

You open the box? You are going to be taken to hell and torture-fucked by the Cenobites. And if you are anywhere NEAR the box? You have a 50-50 chance of being dragged into hell as well, depending on the mood and whims of the Cenobites, especially depending on how you interact with them.

If you are LUCKY, they will simply kill you dead and let you stay dead and not turn you into a Cenobite. Or if you are the type of sick fuck that they know will eventually find and open the box and willingly join the Cenobites later down the line. They are patient and immortal after all.....

Tiffany wasn't taken because they knew Channard was using her as a pawn, to open the box for himself. And they STILL took her into hell too.

Kristy opened the box and only got out, because she realized (another key plot point) that the Cenobites CAN be bargained with. So long as you provide them other people to prey upon or have information on someone who escaped their realm, you can be spared.

Also, as seen in the 6th film and spin-off comics, it's pretty much stated that the only reason WHY Pinhead let Kristy repeatedly escape/made deals with her. Kristy is the type of person who inevitably WOULD open the box of her own free will. But more importantly, Kristy is the type who would be the perfect SERVANT of the Cenobites, sacrificing others to save herself, which is why Pinhead is willing to make deals with her

Your only other option to avoid being taken by the Cenobites is to be as nice and deferential to them as humanly possible and PRAY they are too focused on getting someone who escaped that is in the same room as you. The yuppie parents in Revelations would have lived, had they just shut the fuck up and let Pinhead take Nico instead, Pinhead would have spared them. Instead they took the mom because they needed someone to take and if they couldn't take Nico, they'd take his mom.

Dude is bullshitting....

Cenobites will take anyone, so long as they:

A. They are not too preoccupied with capturing a runaway (Frank, Nico); at which point, so long as you keep your mouth shut and do as the Cenobites say, you might just live to see the morning

B. You are a pervert who they know damn well, will eventually go hunting for the box or it's equivalent (since in the comics, there are variant forms of the box) and join the Cenobites willingly or (in the case of Kristy or the club owner in part 3), they know you will provide them a steady number of alternate victims to torment in exchange for them leaving you be.

The Cenobites clearly have different personalities and motivations in each movie. There is very little consistency in their characterization across the franchise. Your analysis is wrong because it's trying to weave a coherent pan-franchise narrative out of connective tissue that simply doesn't exist.

Disagree. Hellraiser 5 was the beginning of the end of the franchise, as far as being a generic direct to DVD movie with the Cenobites slapped into it in the last couple of minutes, to justify using the Hellraiser name.

It plus Deader reeked of two non-Hellraiser films that were rewritten by Dimension to make them Hellraiser films so they can keep the license.

It also started the trend of making the Cenobites 5th rate Rod Sterling rip-offs who force the dead to go through generic scenarios designed to teach them a lesson about morality and why they suck as human beings and not the magnificant hell perverts they are

Shit like this is why Revelations eventually got redeemed in the eyes of a lot of fans; Revelations may have had a good number of flaws, but it was the first film since Hellbound that actually fucking FELT like a proper Hellraiser film, in terms of following the original premise and rules for the Cenobites.

A lot of the inconsistencies can be handwaved for the most part:

1. Pinhead was split in two following Hellbound, which would explain why Pinhead spent several films out of character before course correcting

2. Hell is constantly changing and that Angelique may have caused a change in hell's management once she was brought back into the fold following the events of Bloodlines

I feel that there was a substantial change in artistic direction after the first movie, and another shift after the second movie. So what you have is a case where the events and characters of the first movie, or two movies depending on where you want to draw the line, can be viewed in isolation, thus begetting one interpretation. Or you can view it in light of later movies, thus begetting a rather different interpretation. I prefer the former approach, but most fans prefer to take the whole franchise as a single narrative, so I understand my interpretation of the Cenobites and their actions in the first movie is based on divergent premises from those of other fans of the series.

Viewing the first movie in isolation, I think the Cenobites are fairly reasonable and not particularly aggressive until the final act when they turn on Kristy. Their motivation for turning on her is basically "the script resolved the central conflict too soon and we needed to blow what was left of our special effects budget, so we made the monsters chase the protag for a few scenes". Though I think the movie did make a token effort to show a scene where Kristy breaks the agreement first over a misunderstanding (Frank is wearing her dad's skin and she tries to protect him from the Cenobites, not realizing who he is. The Cenobites have no problem recognizing Frank and seem unaware that Kristy is confused, so they assume the deal is off). Anyway, their approach to recruitment up until that point is closer to the more voluntary system they use in the book on which the movie was based, The Hellbound Heart, which I feel is a much better source of fill-in-the-blank info for the first movie than its sequels are.

Why did his teeth eye color change all of a sudden?

Explain the "ninja cowboy" part. That was pretty stupid.

In terms of direction, it should be noted that the Cenobites were never supposed to be the main villains anyway.

Julia was always supposed to be the big bad of Hellraiser and the original ending to Hellbound (shot but never having surfaced, presumably because the SFX were never done for the scene) was Julia rising from the darkness as the new mistress of the puzzlebox/Leviathan's Hell Priest(ess), now that Pinhead and company were dead.

Pinhead's popularity and Julia's actress not wanting to do any further films, killed this direction, which in turn led Clive Barker to largely abandon the franchise.

Had the actress not bailed and Barker kept reasonable control over the franchise, the Cenobites might have evolved into a sort of succubus/incubus direction with Julia in the Pinhead role as main villain/emissary of the box.

I think that line referenced the fact that Leviathan decided to make Channard the new Hell Priest, IE the new lead Cenobite complete with Leviathan connecting directly into Channard's head to give him a power boost so that he could one-shot kill Pinhead and company.

When he was first shoved into the box that turned him into a Cenobite, he feared that he was going to become just another flunky, either in Julia's harem or in Pinhead's entourage. But Leviathan told him after he was converted, that he was going to be the new Hell Priest (Pinhead's role/title in hell) and have authority over hell

Cenobites are like the archangels in the pecking order of Hell. Direct access to Leviathan/Satan and all that entails spiritually and knowledge-wise.

Channard was a rich guy who was obsessed with forbidden knowledge, no matter the cost. He learned all he could learn as a doctor and wanted to know more, especially the afterlife and hell.

Julia showed him Hell and Leviathan (IE Satan) basically decided to make him an elite acolyte, placed even higher than Pinhead. Note that Pinhead and his posse had their memories erased, while Channard kept his.

Channard and Julia were going to be the Satanic Adam and Eve of a new race of Cenobites. That was why Channard said that he was shocked, in retrospect, that he hesitated. He got everything he wanted and more out of the experience.

What's this hell priest shit I see mentioned with Pinhead?

Is that from the Boom Comics?

someone get Clive Barker on the phone

...

Hell Priest is from Scarlet Gospel, IE Clive Barker's "last Pinhead story".

Hell Priest is both Pinhead's real Cenobite name and his rank in hell.

The rank of Hell Priest basically is the spiritual leader of hell, the Cenobite/Order of Gash basically being the equivalent of the Catholic Chuch of Satan.

Hell Pope would be a better description of what Pinhead's actual rank is but Pope=Priest is the same in Barker's head.

Is Scarlet Gospels any good? I heard it failed miserably to deliver a lot of what Barker and his fans promised it would......

So when they torture, is it good?

It's a decent read but yeah, given the hype and long wait (nearly 16 years), it doesn't provide half of what Barker said it would.

Barker promised that we would get the full origin of the Cenobites/Order of the Gash and the Engineers, which we don't.

We were promised an epic tale in the same vein as the originally conceived plot to Bloodlines as far as Hell being caught up in an ideological war between the new and the old. We didn't get that, as the war happened off-screen and Pinhead won and now is all about getting Satan to come out of his deathlike coma and give him a moment of religious enlightenment so Pinhead can feel super-special.

Hell, even the Hell Priest reveal was a cop-out; we were promised Pinhead's true Cenobite name (Pinhead was a fan name that got made canon by the distributors, which Clive always hated) and instead we got his job title instead.

Nice write up senpai

Barker would probably like that since he was a fag an all.

If I get evens, I get Blue Eyes and The Voice.
Odds gets me that ass-rammer Hunger

Please Lord Leviathan no whammies.

i don't think Clive wrote that line.

Vasa Inquitatis?

no, wait, that was the fanboi comic version. fuck marc mclauren.

at least that movie gave us a sweet motorhead song

youtu.be/1M4FG1UXH5w

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