Manhunter or Red Dragon? Which one is better?

never seen manhunter
looks too old

>watch To Live and Die in LA
>watch Manhunter

why didn't Grissom become a bigger star? is he suffering from the same thing as Caruso (another CSI actor), where he is a massive asshole or something?

It is extremely 80s Miami Vice era Michael Mann. Up to you whether or not that sounds appealing. I hated it personally.

Didn't realize it was the same director, some of the synth score sounds so out of place in Manhunter, but it's overall a good film.

I think the tooth fairy's motives are more believable but Red Dragon has the more sympathetic bad guy.

>looks too old
Seriously? It's from 1986. You would have to be a turbopleb to think a mid 80s film is "too old".

Manhunter is just the right amount of sheen. It's an open 80's time capsule.

MANHUNTER

It's one of Michael Mann's best films. Red Dragon isn't bad but it isn't very good either because Brett Ratner is a styleless hack who tried to copy what Jonathan Demme did on The Silence of the Lambs.

Eh.... Manhunter relishes in 80s-ness. It's very much a product of the time. Not saying that makes it bad but I can definitely see why anyone under the age of 25 would have a hard time getting into it.

manhunter would be the best if not for the geordie hanniba lecter.

>Rush Hour
That flick is a 6/10 or 7/10. It's not bad but it's not great either. There are a bunch of buddy cop movies that are better.
>Red Dragon
Also a 6/10 or 7/10. It has a perfect cast but the cast is wasted because Ratner was unable to get a great performance out of anyone. Manhunter is the superior film.

Manhunter, but Fiennes is worth Red Dragon.

Geordie?

They are good movies at best (as opposed to great), but I don't get why people single Ratner out as some kind of consummate hack when there are so many others out there who do what he does but much worse.

See . He's a rich party boy that's never had to work for anything.

I don't know anything about his personal life, but I can see it affecting how people perceive him.

Allegedly he didn't want to be a star so he stopped appearing in big projects. Which is a shame because he had a such a raw, energetic, screen presence that made him a captivating leading man. He is one of the few lead actors who steals every scene he is in.

ITT: doug

I know brian cox is scottish but he sounds like a geordie in the movie.

Top kek, I had forgotten about his terrible "old vs new" video about Manhunter/Red Dragon. I still can't believe the tasteless faggot said Red Dragon is the superior film.

AW MAN WHEN HE GETS SHOT IN THE FACE I WAS LIKE WHOOOO!!!!

Over all Manhunter was better, but Ralph Fiennes made a better Dolarhyde

Manhunter if you can get past the shitty synths.

>or Red Dragon
>or Red Dragon

OP should be set on fire

You got that the other way round, mate

The ranking for the Hanniverse is as follows:

Silence of the Lambs = Manhunter > Hannibal > dogshit >>>>> who cares

>SOTL equal to Manhunter

no

The Silence of the Lambs > Manhunter >>> Red Dragon > Hannibal > dogshit >>> Hannibal Rising

Let's compare.

vimeo.com/137513763

They're equally good. Just because you don't understand Mann and think "he's too 80's" (whatever that fucking means) doesn't make your opinion valid here

>Hannibal

Are you talking bout the movie or the show?

Movie. I've never seen the show.

The movie in this instance. The show usually has its own threads.

Spot on Tbh, I think Red Dragon is underrated as fuck as a film though I've never seen Rising

Yea i never get this stance because everyone has been ripping of Mann. He's one of the grandpappys of that type of aesthetic.

>"he's too 80's" (whatever that fucking means)

Oh come on, man. Everything about Manhunter is drenched in 80s excess. You know exactly what people are referring to.

Because it was made , in the 80's .....

>he's too 80s

Where did I say that?

SotL is just a better, more interesting film in every aspect.

There's "made in the 80s" and then there's "80s time capsule in movie form". I can absolutely see why people watching it now wouldn't be able to get into Mann's stylistic choices.

Into his schema overall ? Have you seen Heat? Are you targeting the notion that an age difference can predetermine an individuals ability to imbibe a decade not that far in the past ? Or are you insinuating that Mann hasn't had his tentacles in the round robin of cinemas most used tropes as a causation ? How could he have possibly made anything fixated on the premonition that some kid down the line can't meter 80's imagery within an 80's time period? I don't understand your argument.

I'm referring to his specific 80s aesthetic that late teens/early 20s kids try to recreate when they have 80s parties.

You do realize that literally half of "80's" aesthetic that you're referring to is just pointing out Mann's style right? That he fucking invented? Miami Vice was FUCKING MANN you nonce.

Are you faulting a filmmaker for making a film in style that they invented?

What happened to this place.

That's not a party i would go to. If you were born after 1995 the 80's overflow was pretty much over. I hardly think that have a notion or frame of reference to what Mann executed.Why you would even implicate them falls within non sequitur.

^^^^^

Armond White liked Red Dragon more
Though I love the stylistic elements of Manhunter I do find its performances and the non hyper-stylized bits kinda dumb

Not faulting him at all. I'm just saying that I can understand why a young person wouldn't be able to enjoy Manhunter because that style would seem dated to them.

You write like a buzzfeed clickbait article and your shits all retarded

Similarly I can understand why it would be difficult for say a 20 year old to get into Twin Peaks.

I honestly don't understand why you can't see from the perspective of a modern viewer. Manhunter is a product of its time and therefore somewhat difficult for a new audience to connect with. That's all I'm trying to say.

This is too much of an over generalization, its not moving the conversation forward.

Red Dragon doesn't end with Edward Norton getting stabbed in the face and his wife blowing away Dolarhyde

Think whatever you want but certain aspects of pop culture do age. I'm not one of those people that calls others plebs because they don't understand the appeal of Monty Python or something. I can see where they're coming from.

You give the younger generation no credit and shit like this is why Millennials are fucked up. They have the whole of recorded history and all of media that has ever existed literally at their fingertips and yet I'm the one that needs to see it from their perspective. They are the ones that lack perspective here.

Nah we're just getting old my friend. That's just how it works. I'm 34 and it took me until my 20s to get interested in the movies my parents loved.

I've got younger cousins that can't get enough of Pewdiepie and various other e-celebs. I now know what it's like to be the old guy ranting about how much better things were in my day.

>implying White's opinion matters

Knowing White his favorite Hannibla film is probably Rising for "beautifully re-contextualising the post-World War 2 horrors of Nazi war crimes into a smart genre thriller' or some other nonsense.

Kek. I honest to god believe that Armond's reviews are written by an algorithm.

You're argument is just what an older person is going to set you up for an uppercut on. Your whole gaze of most action/ thriller / cop drama is set up on the precipice of Mann's skillfull use of screenplay and cinematography. Even in the social constructs of Hollywood he was one of the first to put these types of styles in collusion with top seeded actors. He is one of the de-facto bricklayers of stylized crime drama and his hand will extend to the end of the genre, However even Mann says he's not into "style " per say , he's has a preoccupation with "clean" film making .You can glean that while you watch his films yourself. He is the working mans Terrance Malick. You are overlooking the source of all of your reboots.

The point is his style is overbearing and can put off modern viewers, I hate faggots like you who need, literally NEED to show others how Informed you are whilst totally missing the point you are trying to defute.

Fucking dumbass

>this blatant insecurity

>restating the initial point that I failed to grasp is not moving the conversation forward
No, you being a fucking idiot is what's holding the coversation back, lol

I'm pretty sure the problem is faggots like you trying to over generalize millennials as if they all came out of the same small town or some shit

Then don't watch it. Trying to formulate some cockamamie position that the breadth of work of someone prior to you doesn't wax with your tastes comes off a pretty entitled and lacks the minutia of understanding anything outside of your glib sphere of "influences" You must give credit where it is due especially if they made most of your daily influence in their nut sack in a polyester suit , smoking at a bar.

>calling people idiots whilst lumping his/herself in the same sphere of lexicon that they despise

fucking sperg lol

The tiger scene in Red Dragon is fucking terrible compared to Manhunter, and the overall OST for Red Dragon also fails in comparison to Manhunter. Red Dragon, otherwise, is basically the straight-to-DVD sequel you'd watch more out of guilty curiosity than genuine interest.

And when was the last time you heard of some late teens throwing an 80s party? Please fill me in on this well that you draw social knowledge from

>Michael Mann
>Brett Ratner
Gee... I wonder.

As much as I hate to use the word, manhunter is unironically kino.

That fad has died down and we've now shifted into the 90s party phase. Which makes me feel old as fuck.

*refute

Stay in school kiddo

The second half of S3 of Hannibal.

This. The whole thing smacks of hero worship and a small budget. The cold open is the only thing worth watching.

Why do people dislike the based 80s aesthetic when its pure kino? Its a really appealing aesthetic and if people claim its dated just because it isn't common anymore than they're really missing the point. I mean, the 80s didn't actually look like pic related. The sun wasn't somehow blue and neon. Its a style that somehow fell by the wayside despite the fact that it looks fucking awesome. Mann invented a unique GOAT style and people criticize it because it doesn't look like the bland homogeneous shit that's pumped out by studios today. Makes no sense to me.

*high fives
*moonwalks out of thread

Honestly I think the at times overbearing synth score dates it more than the use of filters. Certainly not going to be everyone's cup of tea.

>SotL is just a better, more interesting film in every aspect.
I don't agree with that. The thing that makes silence stand out over the years are the performances of Hopkins, and Foster.

>that sunset on the beach scene

Not the same user but 80s themed parties actually are pretty popular at colleges. I've been to several.
I swear user, I was there. I didn't just see the pics on facebook. I party all the time. I have friends user, really.

Are you retarded?

60s/70s aesthetic>80s aesthetic

What does a 60s film aesthetic even look like? Genuinely curious cause I can't seem to remember a really specific recognizable style that dominates 60s film. 80s and 70s aesthetic is very clear (though I'd argue 70s aesthetic is much more subtle) but nothing really leaps to mind when I think 60s.

Not him but 60s makes me think of Hitchcock movies. Not sure how to describe it exactly.

>What does a 60s film aesthetic even look like?
Breaking away from technicolor into alternatives like the eastman technique for filming in color.

>HEY MAN HE WAS IN MY FACE

Coppola, Scorsese, De Palma, Spielberg, Cimino

I dig Manhunter

Get out

Those are all directors from the new hollywood era of the 70's user.

The 60's seems like more of an internecine period between old and new hollywood.

That's 70s user.

I'm watching Manhunter in a couple of days.
Theatrical Cut or Director's Cut, Cred Forums?

I personally prefer Manhunter but one thing that always bothered me was the ending fight, it had a lot a strange cuts and felt a little off. I did hear that it was intentional but also that they had nearly run out of money towards the end when filming

DO YOU SEE?

What are some examples of Eastman color films and the aesthetic they lend to? Google is only giving me Bollywood films. I think the 60s is more of a transitory period from classic hollywood aesthetic into 70s new hollywood aesthetic. I can't really get a clear picture of a definitive 60s aesthetic.

I love Mann, but his directors cuts are usually full of Lucas tier changes. He usually gets it right on the first try. Plus the score is usually really important in his movies, and adding and cutting scenes fucks with it. Look at the stupid ass shit change to the beach scene in Thief.

variety.com/1997/film/news/dps-and-coppola-bond-as-do-shadow-and-light-1200324806/

I'm not an expert, so if I fuck anything up correct me: Technicolor was a process where the film had three passes for each primary color, and then were superimposed to create a color film print. It was a big bulky cumbersome camera, and they had to be processed by licensed people from technicolor themselves to make sure it was right. Early color films all have those amazing primary colors that just pop out at you because of the way the color was created.

Eastman (Of Eastman Kodak) instead of using 3 monocolored films, came up with a way for all the colors to be caught on a single negative. So you go from a process where color is created artificially, to one where you were capturing something closer to the "real" color of what they were filming. Directors, cinematographers, makeup people, gaffers, etc had to change what they had been doing because of the change in format.

Yes user, De Palma made movies in the 60's. The reason anyone knows who he is, is because of the movies he made in the 70's and 80's.

>not highlighting and rightclicking open in new tab

...

Rewatched just a few nights ago. Hasn't aged well. Tucker is still amazing and is practically the movie's lifeblood, but the premise, direction and writing are all really, really bland and copycutter that it's just a tedious watch by the time the 60-70 minute mark rolls around and they dial down on the humour to make way for gritty action finale. It's alluded-to in at least one of the making-of featurettes that Tucker did a fair bit of ad-libbing, which doesn't really surprise me since his lines are far and away the best in the film. Jackie is okay, he does his best but his best isn't always funny, and his kung-fu shit gets old quickly.

Ratner is a hack who knows the bare-bones of making an action film, has a "Fuck it, that'll do" attitude to every scene he shoots and has no interest in setting himself apart.

He's the definition of a hack studio yes man.