He could have ended it all in an instant

Because he's a morgoth demon with a high power level. Sounds corny to describe it with dbz logic but that's basically what it is. They're not even suppose to be big pig monsters either, just these magical shadow entities of pure evil power.

What do you mean by "all"?

Yeah getting into the lore is weird. And the fact that morgoth demons still aren't shit compared to something like Ungoliant who seriously can't be properly described.

Bard's a shitty human and he killed a dragon

Power is more of a good vs evil thing. Morgoth's cronies were literally so evil that they overpowered the good. Unless the good comes together (men at the end of RotK), the baddies will win just because they spread their malice.

Its safe to say that the dwarves deserved the shit they got in Erebor and Moria.

And eowyn is a shitty shield maiden with a hobbit sidekick and she killed the witch king. Both instances are deus ex machinas that needed to happen because otherwise the power level of the evil antagonist would be too much to handle.

>barely
No, the balrog was fighting for a stalemate and running away once his fire was quenched. Gandalf had to let him live for awhile in the deep caverns below so that he could find his way back to the surface. Once he cast him down, he drifted out of time. The movie makes it look like he was mortally wounded, but I take that passage to imply that Gandalf was simply levelling up, as it were, so he could return and become what Saruman was not.

Well you know what they say; Around a Dwarf, watch your turf.

>300 lives of men I have walked this earth

What was he even doing for all that time?

Regardless he still wouldn't stand a chance against sauron, let alone most of silmarillion shit.

Watching over everything, nudging events when they needed to be. Making sure everything would still be around for when the end came.

It's around elves, watch yourselves.

Seriously could elves be more Mary Sue? They really get off Scott free for abandoning Middle Earth, when they could have helped to destroy the ring centuries prior. They keep their three rings and are somehow uncorrupted. What horse shit.

I don't trust any of those non-humans.

he could've ended it all in an instant

>old white man ruins everything

oh fuck ltr is real life

Absolutely, though I do think he would have killed the witch king or any of the nine. He solo'd several and held his own on Weathertop. They recoil from him again at Monad Tirith. Sauron is definitely too much for any of them though. Even in his weakened state.

He could have ended it all.

How many times do we have to go through this...

>He was weaker than the witch king
>maiar weaker than a fucking ring wraith

Full retard. The balrog, sauron and Gandalf were all the same species btw, and ringless sauron would get fucked by Gandalf (even if he is powered down) in a straight fight.

witch king never bests gandalf, he does in the movie but the movie isnt canon since it totally nullifies the heroic human victory with lolghost army

How did "the black" ever get defeated? Holy shit I want a movie on the mortals fighting that impossible motherfucker ...

Someone help a non lore fag. Story on black and what happened to bim?

An elf flew a magic boat into him. The Silmalarrion is pretty stupid.

There are different levels of maia, not to mention that the good ones had lost more of their power in mortal form compared to evil ones

He's nowhere near as big as that picture makes it seem. Yeah he's easily the biggest dragon ever to exist in Middle-Earth, but still a lot smaller than the picture implies.

Ancalagon is "larger than a mountain" is all we really know as he destroys one by crashing into it when he dies. So he could be a little bigger than a mountain or a fuckload.

nigga did you just call Earendil an elf

During the War of Wrath, Eärendil came out of the west in his boat Vingilot, accompanied by the Eagles of Manwë led by Thorondor; and they and Eärendil dueled with Ancalagon and the other Dragons for an entire day. Eventually, Eärendil was victorious, throwing Ancalagon upon Thangorodrim and destroying its towers. The fall of Ancalagon marked the end of Morgoth's final resistance.[2]

his 'boat' was flying in the sky, and Thangorodrim was a fortress so huge it was made out of mountains

A car could fuck up a house if it crashed into it with enough force. Doesnt mean it is larger. This picture is misleading.

no literally all we know is that he destroys thangorodrim when he dies. literally nothing is ever stated about his size, he could be the size of an average dragon but was so powerful and was struck down in such awesome fashion that his death destroyed the mountain. ancalagon being some fuckhuge behemoth is just a Cred Forums meme.

>that moment when an autist is so invested in the plot that they forgot it was written by someone and it is shitty writing

>"_____ could have _____ to solve ________!!!"

Astute observation.

not true, he's said to be 'the greatest of all dragons' as well, which implies heavily that hes fucking enormous. Doubt very much he's significantly huger than a mountain, but still hes clearly huge

They literally describe him as larger than a mountain.

But the Witch-King of Angmar got killed by a hobbit and a woman.

elves are leaving because the magic of the world has been fading since Beleriand was destroyed and because clearly the age of Men is beginning. They're clearing the scene. Plus, even if all the elves in ME fought in the War of the ring they wouldn't have made a big difference

When he became Gandalf the White he was at least as strong as the Witch King, maybe even Sauron himself.

I clearly remember, in the book, Gandalf getting ready to go apeshit on the Witch King, he lit his sword on fire and called him 1v1, but the Witch King got startled by the horn of the Horrirín marching to Minas Tirith, and fled.

The movies don't do that, they make Gandalf seem like a pussy.

So, basically a fever dream recollection.

>Ancalagon is "larger than a mountain" is all we really know
Not really. Ancalagon for example at one point comes out of the gates of Angband (located in Thangorodrim), which is obviously impossible if he's larger than the mountain. What we do know is that (in some editions of Silmarillion) his fall breaks the towers of Thangorodrim, nowhere is it ouright stated that he's "larger than a mountain".

>Ancalagon's size is not specified, but may be gigantic due to the destruction of "the towers of Thangorodrim", which are elsewhere identified with the three smoking peaks of the mountain. He was however, said to be as big as a mountain.[6] However, his size is never directly specified and some powerful but small creatures are able to cause great destruction even in death, such as Durin's Bane breaking the slopes of Celebdil. Like all other Urulóki, Ancalagon breathed fire, which was said to be hotter than any other dragon's flame.

>He was weaker than the witch king

Weak bait

Would go against God's orders.

Gandalf was never meant to solve the world's problems. His job was just giving the right people a nudge out of the door and occasionally acting as shepherd.

nope. the actual terminology is "the mightiest of the dragon-host". nothing is said about his size, and "great" does not even necessarily refer to size anyways.

see above. nothing is said about his size, he's literally only mentioned for like three sentences and all that's said about him is that he was the strongest of the dragons and that when he fell he broke the towers of thangorodrim.

>source: The Atlas of Middle-earth, written by Karen Wynn Fonstad

Bard had a magical bow and arrow designed specifically to kill Dragons

I don't remember if it's a bow or a balista like in the movie, but i didn't like the movie interpretation of the fight. In the book, Bard was much more confident that he could do it and was more heroic.

the thing is though i have my copy of The Silmarillion right here, i'm not just parroting shit from tolkiengateway

"Before the rising of the sun Earendil slew Ancalagon the Black, the mightiest of the dragon-host, and cast him from the sky; and he fell upon the towers of Thangorodrim, and they were broken in his ruin."

that's all that's said about him. nothing about his appearance and nothing about him being bigger than a mountain.

It was just a regular bow.

>Bard was much more confident that he could do it and was more heroic.

Yeah, what the fuck was up with that emo bullshit in the movie?

Elves leave because the longer they stay away from Valinor, the less powerful they are. That's why in the first age the first Noldor could do shit like fight an army of Balrogs at once, defeat Elite Balrogs in a 1v1, get so enraged they shine with the brighest light, be powerful enough to permanently enjure the closest thing to Satan in Middel-Earth, etc.

It also explains Legolas's bullshit, he's superpowerful, even if he is only a third-age Wood Elf, he's more durable, faster and stronger than the average human.

>Big enough to generate his own gravitational field.
>Wings flapping would make 400mph+ winds and would change global weather and rip trees from the ground.
>Would have a wing span wider than london to paris including the english channel.
>For him to be able to fly with wings he would need to be super sonic and would make shockwaves that would flatten everything
>Fire breath would be like a nuclear bomb of heat reaching over 4000 degrees setting the atmosphere on fire and starting a nuclear winter like event
>Walking would create 5.5 earthquakes

The list goes on of how ridiculous the size is even in a fantasy environment.

A magic boat that shot light lasers from a Silmaril

Tolkien never specified how exactly Ancalagon was defeated, just that Earendil came in with his flying Silmaril-powered boat and topped him alongside the army. We know that the Silmarils weaken, burn and hurt Melkor's spawn, it's not crazy to say Earendil used the Silmaril to weaken Ancalagon.

Don't forget
>But he loosed upon his foes the last desperate assault that he had prepared, and out of the pits of Angband there issued the winged dragons, that had not before been seen; and so sudden and ruinous was the onset of that dreadful fleet that the host of the Valar was driven back, for the coming of the dragons was with great thunder, and lightning, and a tempest of fire.
Clearly states the dragon came out of Angband, which is located in Thangorodim, meaning it is literally impossible for Ancalagon to have been anywhere near the size of the mountain range if he can fit through a gate built into it.

Then the arrows were magical. The book had a mystic feel to the arrows, instead of them just being a really big chunk of metal in the movie.

The only people that volunteered to be Wizards were low power level, it says so in the silmarilion.
The West is generally afraid of intervening in Middle Earth because their DBZ fights wreck entire continents.
He's less powerful than Sauron. Anyone capable of being corrupted by the one ring is, as it's a lust for power that is the ring's corrupting force.

Everyone was OP in the first age though. Men were arguably hardier than elves in the first age, if not just outright superior warriors.

Middle earth was flat when The Black existed. It was an endless plane between the higher plane and the lower plane (they had Norsish names in whatever celestial language Tolkien invented). That is to say the problems associated with his size don't figure in a universe which uses completely different physics in the first place.

that doesn't make any sense since Legolas is a Sindar and therefore neither him nor his predecessors have been to Aman

Beleriand was the heyday of elves. They built great cities and fortresses like Menegroth, Gondolin, Nargothrond, etc. and fought against the terrors of Morgoth.

Since the War of Wrath the elves came across the Blue Mountains and set up small kingdom like Eregion and Lothlorien but nothing even remotely like what they had before and by the end of the TA even most of those are on the decline

It reads the pits, not the gates. The Dragons could have come from the underground straight to the surface, or giant pits were created around Angband such that Dragons could come through.

I don't think Ancalagon was the literal size of a moutain. He could be like half. But it seriously takes a bit of size to fall and destroy a whole chain of moutains and a fortress.

>A giant spider who are the tree of life to become the size of a continent before retreating to the sea and became a massive blot in the ocean.

How is that hard to describe?

I thought Legolas's father had some relation to the Noldor, somehow. So i guess the only 2 Noldor left were Elrond and Galadriel, no descendents?

Does any of this even confirm Ancalagon is the largest dragon ever to exist? It says he is the largest of the *dragon host*, that is, the group of dragons that came out of Angband.

Ungoliant is not hard at all to describe. Ungoliant is not the creation of Melkor alone, it was the meddling of Melkor in Eru's music when he created the world, so it's something witth Eru's level of creation, but corrupted by Melkor.

It was just called a black arrow. He was down to his last one and that was it. I don't think it's explained if the black arrow held some special power. It was more the information Bilbo provides on his weakness and a great/lucky shot.

he could have ended it all

He doesn't destroy a "whole chain of mountains and a fortress", his fall destroys the towers. And if you want to use real life logic to explain it, something as big (or small in this comparison) as Smaug falling from a great height would have enough kinetic energy to fuck up the towers.

Don't take offense to this, but ya talking shit mate.

It's never specified whether the Black Arrow was magical or not, it's only vaguely hinted at having any kind of magical properties. The only thing that's really known about it is that it was forged by the Dwarves under the mountain.

yes and I'm not really sure if Elrond is Noldor either. He's a mongrel anyway

>Fuck this thread. Tolkien didn't have power levels in his books.
and Feanor did nothing wrong.

For reference, the speck on the far right is Mount Doom. Ancalagon's foot is on a pile of his scat. It was large enough to block out the sun for 50 leagues in all directions.

They weren't corrupted by their rings because Celebrimbor never allowed Sauron to touch them, unlike the other rings.

are there any elves that aren't smug assholes?

>forged by the Dwarves
aka Probably not magical just good quality.

Gildor too and maybe some of his company

They had every right to be smug assholes.
Beleg comes to mind.

Cirdan is too old and tired to be either

>vanyar
>arrogant faggots that LARP as valar
>noldor
>literally the niggers of elves, basically ruined the world
>teleri
>disloyal faggots who are obsessed with "muh boats"
>sindar
>think they're hot shit because they have a maia protecting them

nah, most elves are fags

In the extended ROTK Gladalf gets wreked and his staff gets shattered

>implying Nolder are niggers
>Feanor literally made something not even the fucking Valar could.
>Fingolfin gave the most powerful Valar a limp

>feanor

TRIGGERED

This motherfuck could have taken care of the whole mess

He even smokes pot with gandalf

Balrog. Low tier. KYS.

No. He's a normal Smaug sized Deagon.

You are dumb. Or drunk. Or high. But for sure too stupid for life.

Whats a Deagon?

Proof, faggot?

The spider was just a form it took. Ungoliant was an animate void.

dude he's not supposed to help lmao

>ignores all the times he helped

The blade that Merry had gotten from the barrow weights was specifically made to undo the witch king's enchantments and make him mortal.

Magic among the dwarves and elves is just being incredibly good at their crafts, so much so it appears to be magic to the outsiders.

gandalf in his "maiar" form is a magician or something like a fighter/ ranger type ? sauron was always a sorcerer but gandalf what was as a maiar?

Literally all matter is big enough to generate a gravitational field you cuck

Of all the subtitles to give a dragon that size and they go with the FUCKING BLACK?

He destroys three

I've yet to see a car completely destroy a house let alone a tower block which thangorodrim would be scaled upto using your shit logic

Destroys 3 everest sized mountains. how the fuck would he reach all three mountains?

The mountains were a direct result of the excavation to create those caves. Angband was a huge fortress.

Logic dictates that he would have to be as Large as a mountain to tag three mountains simultaneously

The real question is could tom bombadil beat him?

Bar glaurung, Dragons were literally horses for the balrog and bombadil > any balrog.

So yes

The barrow-downs are my favorite place tbqh