So did they die each time?

these jewish materialists are wrong.

if transportation == death then they could create an infinite number of anyone entering a transporte, and the transporter "accidents" we see where two people are fused would not happen.

episode?

same way you die every night you go to sleep and wake up with different atoms

If you remember the episode they said , fearing he would lose him, transporter chief created a second pattern buffer, but didn't need it when Riker materialized so he released it, but it actually materialized back on the planet without their knowledge

And since it happened you could figure out how to build transporters that can do this regularly (some ethical rules probably stop them from doing it)

But however it happened it happened and you got two Rikers who are convinced they are the real Riker, so which one is the real Riker? they can't both be

the most logical conclusion is, neither is

If they wnated they could keep themselves useful forever.

They can basically save scum life by saving a current copy of themselves in the transporters, and then load up that previous save any time they want.

They just dont do it for ethical reasons, but they've used it in emergencies to save sick people.

>hear and brain activity stop
>person is resuscitated
>WOW THEY'RE A DIFFERENT PERSON NOW SO DEEP
Said no one ever. Fuck off.

It erases your consciousness, so yes.

No retard. If the materialists are right the transporters don't kill you.

Yep. Reg was right to be afraid.

>They just dont do it for ethical reasons
So why don't the Romulans, Cardassians, Breen, or other species known for not having a code of ethics?

Lonely Among Us

Yes, they died every time. A new version of a person was made elsewhere, identical right down to memories and feelings. Which is exactly why they felt like themselves, when in fact, they were in fact a perfect duplicate, and the original person is dead.

So if you use the transporter, you actually die and never come back.

>transporter chief created a second pattern buffer,
Bull fucking shit.

>LAFORGE: Apparently there was a massive energy surge in the distortion field around the planet just at the moment you tried to beam out.
The planet did it. The planet created Thomas.
>LAFORGE: The Transporter Chief tried to compensate by initiating a second containment beam.
The chief was just trying to increase the accuracy.
>DATA: An interesting approach. He must have been planning to reintegrate the two patterns in the transport buffer.
Only one buffer. How is it that you claim there were two buffers? I know, it's because you're full of shit.

Don't fuck with me, mate. I'm the #1 Star Trek expert on Cred Forums.

perhaps they do

where did you think all those Weyouns come from?

your limited scifi imagination has you thinking they were grown in some bucket, but perhaps they just stepped off a pad..

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE SELF

IF YOU REASSEMBLE A PROJECTOR IT WILL PROJECT THE SAME PICTURE

>Transport from anywhere
>Go to transporter room for no reason

two buffers, two containment beams

potato potato

you still die faggot

They're not dying. Think of it like file compression. They're being rearranged into a matter stream that can only be reassembled in the way they were before.

If you're saying they have died because their brain isn't currently configured in the way it normally is in a window of time we can observe. Just think of it like a vastly slowed down version of what's happening all the time. There are immeasurable fractions of time in between the moments the atoms in your body maintain their bond where they start to drift apart before their attraction is exerted again. Do you die in those small fractions of time when the atoms that make up your body start to come apart?

ye

They dont do it because "reasons". Realistically, everyone would be doing it to stay youthfull forever, or reset their bodys back to 20 years old when they hit 60, or do weird shit like "I feel like being 30 today." and then waking up the next day and going "I feel like being 40 today."

But it would fuck up lots of things if they were to start doing that in stories all the time constantly.

Hell, with the way Riker got accidentally cloned in that one transporter accident, you could probably use transporter tech to make millions of copies of your best soldiers to use in wars. It'd be some Clone Wars type shit.

A containment beam is not a pattern buffer, you complete ignoramus.

If you applied to the academy, they would reject you in a heartbeat.

It's probably more energy efficient the closer you are to the equipment

they DID use site to site transport a lot in emergency situations

From our perspective, us being de/rematerialised means life/death. From the universes's perspective it doesn't matter at all. So really, the concept of "life/Death" is actually insufficient to describe what state in reality we are actually transmitting though. Really, it's matter energy in the end. Consciousness is a delusion we arrive at due to our currently configured molecular state. In the total span of time, it's meaningless. If you can be de/rematerialised and preserve the information as well (your memories) then you are (as far as you're concerned) YOU.

that's pretty fucked up actually when you think about it.

it's kind of like how people think that you can achieve "immortality" by uploading your brain and your memories to a computer but it's still not really you. it's just a facsimile of you.

>there's not a single molecule left of you from the you 7 years ago

not true, not all cells recycle. just regurgitating some shit you heard someone else say. pathetic.

...

its one technobabble vs another technobabble

we're discussing philosophical implications

1) If that's how it worked, Riker Clone wouldn't a thing, nor half the crew of DS9 being turned into a holo-program wouldn't be possible either.

2) I agree it's an issue of people pretending materials are more important than they are, but you're kind of echoing the same thing, by saying that "it's okay guys, it's the same atoms too, they just kind of got turned into energy first!"

Basically it comes down to a very specific school of philosophy:
"If two objects are identical in all ways, then they are the same object."
Basically it doesn't matter if the one that got picked apart is "dead". The new one is absolutely everything that one was, and will continue to do anything and everything the previous would have.

Frankly, we have no reason to believe that our mind is really "ours". There's no way to guarantee, that what we think "we" are isn't just one flicker of conciousness coming to existence for a single instance in an eternal cycle as the neurons fire, only convinced "it" existed a moment before, due to the way those neurons fire. And if that's the case, if you can replicate the neurons and the ways they fire, nothing is different, even if the molecules are.

tl;dr
Whether they die completely depends on how you define being alive.

From a philosophical point of view its you:
Your continuity continues at the destination.

From a quantum entanglement point of view, one is technically destroying the source, so the destination is a perfect clone.

From a pragmatic point of view teleportation is a bunch of bullshit.

Why didn't they just put Warp drives on star bases and mass produce them for standard ships?

What we're discussing is the fact that you don't know how Star Trek works, you don't remember how Star Trek works, you refuse to look up how Star Trek works, but you still continue to act as if your opinions are valid.

Any discussion with you is pointless because you don't comprehend your own ignorance, and you will thus insist that you are somehow right even after you have been proven wrong.

But then what is "you?"

do i need all my parts to be me? What if i lose an eye or a leg? Am i no longer me? How much can i lose before i'm not me any more?

>if transportation == death then they could create an infinite number of anyone entering a transporte, and the transporter "accidents" we see where two people are fused would not happen.
No, they really couldn't.

The same way, the existence of Television, didn't automatically mean the existence of Tivo.

To stream the information necessary to re-assemble people on the go as they are being disassembled, is entirely different from having the storage capacity to store this information in its entirety for reproduction. (Which they did in "Our Man Bashir" on DS9, and it took literally all the memory the entire station had to store 5 people's brain patterns.)

but what about that instance where picard was lost in space and they used his past information to replicate him. it's literally not him. the real picard is dead in space. it's just a copy of him as he once was.

your frontal lobe.

He put his energy inside the ships transporter on his own.
Troi even said she felt him.

>it's kind of like how people think that you can achieve "immortality" by uploading your brain and your memories to a computer but it's still not really you. it's just a facsimile of you.
It certainly is more you, than the you who wrote that message 7 minutes ago.

The funny thing about intelligent beings, is that our minds keep adapting, using new information to constantly develop.
It can be extremely simple, or extremely drastic, but regardless, you reading this right now, are memorizing at least some parts of this, and 10 minutes from now, you might come to a realization that the you from 7 minutes ago never would have come to, because he hasn't yet absorbed what I'm saying right now.

The "copy" you make, is exactly the same as you are/were the moment you made it. It doesn't change. It remains your stored "you" much better than you do.

so if i were to upload the data from my frontal lobe is that me? am i more than a sum of my parts or would i just be the iteration of me?

Your problem is that you weren't paying attention when watching this episode, or you watched it years ago and your memory faded.

His original physical body is gone, but his original neural patterns are in the new body.

why didn't memory alpha pick up on this one? like harry kim and o'brien shouldn't he be listed as "replaced by duplicate"

What you call yourself is just an accumulation of experiences. A saved pattern of yourself would just be the same thing, but maybe with slightly less experiences. We fear death out of instinct but in reality we are not very special.

we all know Troi never really had any powers and was just stating the obvious

no there is an episode where barclay can see that snake thing during teleporting and everyone laughs at him

iteration. And until the upload can actually run it has no consciousness.
(You) requires physical continuity.

well i was mostly talking about that one example from next generation with picard. i don't know enough about star trek and the science to get into a philosophical debate about transporting. i think if you retain your memories and everything then it's still you and you haven't died. that one example with picard though is different. the real picard is literally dead in space and they just created a clone of him at a certain point in time.

>(You) requires physical continuity.
That's a bit of a statement, considering no form of science has yet come close to even defining what (You) are.

honestly i never really watched star trek. i watched a couple episodes of TNG when i was a kid growing up but i never followed it. i just found the topic interesting. i'm basically donnie in big lebowski though. i'm out of my element and i should shut the fuck up.

I have.

Does that mean there's a dead Picard floating in space, kind of like the dead Harry Kim floating through the delta quadrant?

Not him, but you shouldn't.

The entire point of Science Fiction, is to be out of your element, and see what you can do with it.
At least that's the definition Isaac Asimov himself gave Science Fiction while discussing the topic with Gene Roddenberry on the "Inside Star Trek" disc.
Listen here for exact phrasing. It's a good disc.
(Jump too about 39:30 if the embed doesn't do it properly.)
youtube.com/watch?v=iHg_1Ni6k-c&feature=youtu.be&t=2375

>there's not a single molecule left of you from the you 7 years ago

CNS neurons, female eggs, and eyeball lens cells never replace and have the exact same enzymes and cell structure throughout life

you know, a scary thought occurred to me.

If transporters really do follow the current theory that it disintegrates you in order to read and send your particle information to the target location, where it recreates you down to the atom...

You would never know, would you... NO ONE would ever know...

the guy who goes into the transporter wouldn't know he's going to be killed until it happens and he's disintegrated. And then, if there is such a thing as an afterlife, he'd realize it and there'd be no way of warning the living. But the exact copy of you that appears at the other end wouldnt know either... as far as they know, they just stepped into the teleporter on the other end and came out fine... and then the same thing would happen to them when they enter the teleporter...

neurons on the cellular level yes, atomic level no

oh my fuck

What if you're asleep, and your identical clone is shopping at the grocery store. Are you the same person that people saw at the store? You don't think so, because you were sleeping the entire time. But everyone else are sure it was you and your clone is certain that he went to the store.
Now imagine being dead instead of asleep.

huh?
Explain?!@#$^@$#@

Do you even know what you're saying?

He was fused with some "entity" though which gave him powers thus he was able to inject his energy pattern into the transporter so it could be reversed.

People just don't understand. They think if it's biological/natural its alright, but once technology is able to achieve the same process it wrong.

>atomic level no

if you're referring to nuclear decay or orbital spin states, then by your same logic, a piece of rock from a minute ago isn't the same as it is now--doesn't affect the definition of sameness we are talking about

Worse yet is if you think that we humans are made of trillions apon trillions of molecules. Yet we can't do things like punch a whole in our on bodies since we are "solid". The act of teleporting and being disintergrated would be the most painful thing in our existance with no way of stopping it until your brain was taken apart and did not think or feel anymore.

he means you can't create something out of nothing. what we eat literally becomes the new us.

>The act of teleporting and being disintergrated would be the most painful thing in our existance with no way of stopping it until your brain was taken apart and did not think or feel anymore.

what if the disintegration process occurred quicker than a nerve could send a pain signal?

Yes.
This teleportation can easily create as many clones of you, as somebody want. It is all about data after desintgertation. Not about recreating your atoms.

Troi said that the pattern they pulled from the transporter was an old one. If the pattern they used was the one Picard inserted into the circuitry, he would have retained his memory.

People in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were literally vaporized and their shadows were burned into solid stone and metal. They died, like dead died. Because there is no loss of anything in the universe if you put them back together would they remember dying?

What happens when your brain comes apart in the transporter and your own electro chemical thought patterns end? How can any computer be capable of putting back together more molecules than anyone can count in order AND keep the same brain pattern and consciousness going? You would think anyone would be passed out or in cardiac arrest with full brain death.

Scary stuff man.

What happens when you fall into a coma, or just sleep?
Nice Satan trips bra

well they say sleep is death's cousin

BTW Gödel's incompleteness theorem concludes that a simulation of a thing can never fully describe the thing itself, so digitizing a human for transportation would be inadequate.

Don't know about a coma but when I was a kid we had joked around about doing this thing where you press on someone's neck and pass out (yes I know it was stupid) I only did it once. It was the first time I had passed out and my brain had lost track of time literally. Even when asleep i know time passes, I know i'm alive. When I woke up I had no idea how long I was out. It was actually seconds but to me it felt like forever and endless void of time. It felt like dying and that's how I imagine teleportation is.

youtube.com/watch?v=Ro_QpDJX-Sk

So did they die twice?

Processing space makes it generally unfeasible, but you're still right that it doesn't explain why immoral species wouldn't do it.

In an episode of DS9 they needed to save most of the senior crew during a transporter accident by replacing pretty much all of the programming space in the holosuite and main computer with the transporter buffer patterns. If a fairly large space station built for a max population of 5000 people can only barely hold 5 patterns, with no promise they wouldn't degrade over time or as soon as any part of the computer systems broke down. Basically if you wanted to make backups of VIPs you'd need the equivalent of a major starship or space station's core computer with a fuckton of redundancies while being maintained by a Chief Engineer with staff as a full time job. Again, not impossible, just not really feasible.

Scotty figured out a more efficient way by constantly cycling the buffer, but it was a 50/50 shot, at best.

Say I suspended you in time, cut off your head, then moved your two halves separately to another location and reassembled you. When I unsuspended you, you were no worse for wear than before the whole process.
Did you die? I think most people would say no, your head was just disconnected from your body for a bit.

Now what if I cut you into four pieces? Would you have died then?
Ten pieces?
A hundred pieces?
A thousand pieces?
When does it start to count as you dying and being replaced by a clone made from your dead body's parts?

IMO, Trek-style transportation only counts as death if they don't actually beam your particles. Like, if they just scan your pattern, destroy you at your current location, and then rebuild you at the new location from scratch. That'd kill you. But if they're literally transporting you atom by atom to a new location, then it's still you who steps out the other side.

what the fuck. that video

see this is what i was thinking too. i know that "you" is really just a collection of experiences and your personality, but it is also decaying organic matter. that's why i used the word facsimile before. when you send a fax to somewhere across the country or the world, they get the exact same thing on the other side reprinted exactly as you sent it, but it's not the same physical paper. it's just an exact copy. if there is really a soul and an afterlife, who's to say you don't die every time you get transported. just because it has your personality and your memories doesn't mean that it's you.

>then moved your two halves separately to another location and reassembled you
Transporter not moving your atoms in another location. Just information about them. You are reassembled from the new materials.

Prove it.

jesus christ
>those screams
>what we got back didn't live long. Fortunately...

To not be murdar, they'd have to transport you whole, in a force bubble.

Speed of it.
You want to say they can transport matter faster than they can fly on ships?
Makes no sense.
But only information? This is more logical.

though to be honest, the idea of heaven being filled with dozens upon dozens of picards and rikers suddenly makes it more amusing

It's impossible to resuscitate somone from brain death.

No same molecules, same everything moved from site to site. In fact the trek lore proves you're only loosened apart not exactly a mess of molecules like pouring water on sand castle. The only time you're not in one place is during the actual beaming which is a fraction of a second you are not aware of. In the steam you are still whole in body and mind. Like picard being turned in to data and energy and using the pattern buffer to remake well he was taken apart by Q who never really killed him in the first place and was never aware of his death.

youtube.com/watch?v=nW-NiGp1gys

>if e=mc^2 then matter is energy, so their atoms could be converted directly energy, trasmitted and converted to matter again on the other side.

This

In fact, this happens naturally in the body all the time. Mass or matter is just concentrated energy. When we eat we convert the mass we eat into energy which is then used to create new cells. Our intestinal lining is replaced every month. Our liver cells are replaced every five days. Our entire skeleton is replaced every 10 years. Who you were 20 years ago is not the same person you are today. You are a complete replacement because of matter/energy exchange.

The transporter works on the same principle. The person in the transporter's mass is converted into pure energy and then reconstituted at another location with that same energy. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed. It can only be dismantled, replaced, and transferred but never destroyed. So nobody actually dies in the transporter because the same matter/energy exchange that would have happened in the human body was done artificially by the transporter immediately somewhere else.

So you're saying even in my first example with the decapitation, you'd be a different person on the other side? You have to be 100% whole the entire way or else you're dead and replaced?

How far does this wholeness logic follow? What if I just cut off and reattached your pinky toe instead?

>with that same energy
Lol no. Transporter working from the energy of the ship.
It is the same principle as 3d printer.
You send data to the another place and they print a new copy.
But to know exacts blueprints of your body, they need to destroy you first.

The moment you step in teleportation device - you are dead. And just copy of you will live on after that.

youtube.com/watch?v=5NuNZ1cBZlg

When they will discover a way to read all body data without destruction of your body, it will become very complicated. Or they know how to do it already, but choose to hide it from the public.

>It was actually seconds but to me it felt like forever and endless void of time. It felt like dying and that's how I imagine teleportation is.
That's weird
I only lost conciousness once in my life, and it was the exact opposite.
Trainer at the gym insisted I try out this cool new machine, that is basically a reverse of lifting, where you push yourself down against a counterweight. He miss-calibrated it and I went flying back, hitting my head on the floor.
For me, it was like time has literally skipped forward 3 minutes. It was as if no time passed between the moment before hitting my head (haven't even felt it then, only afterwards), and "waking up" with people around me (I'm actually not even sure if I wasn't awake before the first moment I started consciously thinking, because I was already leaning on my elbows, halfway sitting up.

Life's weird man, and brains are weirder.

Not him, but literally any episode dealing with transporters.

>Two Rikers created
>5 people from Deep Space Nine temporarily stored in computer memory during Our Man Bashir
>Tuvix, a being no bigger than normal, created from materializing two people together

it depends on your point of view

philosophyexperiments.com/stayingalive/Default.aspx

But they don't.

Unless you're JJ Abrams, transporters are slower than ships.

Are you JJ Abrams, you worthless fucking Hollywood hack shit?

No. Death is a permanent state, and therefore it would be impossible for them to die and resuscitate every time they teleported

yes, because the replicator can create a living being. not even a 1 celled bacteria.

if they were just being copy pasted, they would be dead

watch that episode of enterprise where travis got kidnapped by that machine. replicators can replicate life

Why couldn't they do a test where they upload your brain while you are still alive?

They could put original you in a coma and then turn your computer brain on. When original you wakes up if you remember what your computer brain did then it would confirm the computer upload is really you.

death is a permanent state for the original person

after teleportation it is just a clone that is not you

then how do they have the exact consciousness of the person who died?

>Lol no. Transporter working from the energy of the ship.

Still, it's the same principle. You've heard the term "You are what you eat." The energy you use to constantly recreate yourself still comes from somewhere else. The energy needed to replace your entire skeleton after 10 years came from somewhere else. Who you are now is not the same person that existed 20 years ago because that person is gone now. Only "you" remain. The transporter does the same whether it is the same energy or the ships energy it doesn't matter. The reason why you are "you" and not a slow clone is because the pattern of "you" never changed. Your body parts, your molecules are nothing. Everybody has those. What makes you unique in the entire universe is your pattern. As long as they stays intact you will always come out on the other side. This holds true even for the two rikers. Even if they were the same person they became different people with their own unique patters because of the environments they existed in and their unique experiences as well.

There called matter energy converters in the show you dumb fuck

Not necessarily. I've had plenty of patches of memories go missing without uploading my brain to a computer. All I did was upload lots of booze to my brain. Did I cease to be when I blacked out, and how the fuck do I get home?

>He miss-calibrated it and I went flying back, hitting my head on the floor.
what kind of machine was that

It's an argument because it showed what it's like to be transported from the first person perspective.

Barclay never lost consciousness, hence he didn't die and get cloned.

>tfw survived

>But then what is "you?"
The whole thing
>What if i lose an eye or a leg?
It's still you. Most of you that is. You've lost a part of "you". And if that weren't true, why would you have phantom limb syndrome? The nervous system as it is is designed to assume a complete human form, and part of it is missing.
>How much can i lose before i'm not me any more?
All of it. You would have to be completely destroyed before it was "not you anymore", but that's pretty much what happens in this hypothetical transporter situation.

And it's not because it's different atoms, no that's not the important part. The important part is continuity. You constantly cycle through new "stuff" and discard it at will, and almost all the atoms that currently make up your body will eventually be discarded. But they will be discarded by your body and replaced by your body with new ones as needed. What you are is the self-sustaining self-repairing matter and energy system that stated when your father's sperm met your mother's egg, was squeezed out your mother's hoo-ha, and has been keeping itself running ever since. As soon as you are disassembled at one end, that being is dead, and the being reassembled according to your plan on the other side? That being's "mother" is the machine. It's not even the product of an unbroken line of descent from the earliest life on earth like you are anymore, it's a product. If you kept the information, you could even mass produce them.

Commander, tell me about your sexual organs.

Didn't go back again to ask.

It was weird really, supposedly it was meant to train the back, because it was like this platform you stand on, with your hands on railings on either side, and you have to keep a perfectly straight back and push yourself down, by pulling your arms up, and then slowly let yourself back up. Rinse and repeat.

Since there was a counter weight involved, I imagine the guy set it too high, so going back up my hand slipped off the handle and wham.

I actually vaguely remember flying backwards. It was the kind of moment where movies would start playing smooth 80s songs.

Dead. A clone appears that thinks it's them. The pattern buffer copies the data of the original and then DELETES IT so there aren't 2 of them once a clone is spawned.

well yeah not remembering wouldn't definitively rule out it working but remembering would prove it

why wouldn't it delete the clone?

So
>Natural slow de- and reassembly: Alive
>Technologically induced rapid equivalent: Dead

What exactly does my body store temporarily in the matter it has yet to recycle, that isn't transmitted via the transporter, but is transmitted through normal bodily functions?

Store temporarily? No, I don't think you understand. You keep yourself alive by keeping the system running. Once you have failed to do that, you're dead. Then a machine far away takes the information gleaned from destroying you, and makes an exact replica with (roughly) the same form down to the atom as you, and that being continues to keep itself alive.

Hm, I think we have different understanding of "being alive" then.

To me, if you have some definite "meaning of life", it means trying to achieve something. Wanting to finish writing a story, learn things, develop them, discuss them, so on.

In the end, your "life" by my definition, is what you make, what you become what you contribute to the world around you, so that much like if you were a single cell in a larger human body, you contribute to its own development and continued existence.

By that standard, if "your life" is the way you aim to and can contribute, the way you live your life, the things you know and how you use that is what "you" are, then an identical replica that has absolutely everything right, is exactly the same as you, because it will continue its own cycle where you left off, and will continue to change, just as you have changed.

The "continuity", to me only matters in thought. If that continues, then the continuity persists.

Continuity of the physical shell isn't so relevant.

After all, by the very nature of the human mind, even if you imagine death being that everything goes black and never turns back on again, there is no way to prove that doesn't happen to you every waking moment.
You don't know if you aren't continous sequence of entities, each convinced they are the previous, by no merit more, than that they have access to the same neural pathways and memories which are just imprints of the previous entities that flickered into existence to complete a thought process and then flickered out right away.

In the end, in my view, it doesn't matter as much, whether I wake up in the morning or someone else, as long if that someone writes down the idea I had before falling asleep, into his notebook after waking up.

Know what I mean?

Possibly,

But the advantage the technology give you over other civilizations makes it worth the risk.

1.Yes they would have died cause they would have been burned to such a state they only exist as small partials of light!
2. What about interference such as EMP waves or pulse waves? That would interfere with the hole reforming process and could even place body parts in the wrong place.
3. what about when the light process picked up other light partials? it would add to the genetic DNA for the person you fried.

The entire point of science fiction is contemporary allegory without outrage.

>entire body is disintegrated and converted into energy
>heart and brain stopping
Slight difference there m8.

Thomas Moore's Utopia was allegorical of what contemporary concept exactly?

How about Stanislav Lem's His Master's Voice? If you didn't read that, here's the gist of it: It's a more in-depth Contact before Carl Sagan ripped it off and added unnecessary contemporary politics.

>How much can i lose before i'm not me any more?

Your entire fucking body right down to the last individual atom, as in the example of the Star Trek teleporter.

But is their continuity of consciousness, is it the same you?

It's kind of a stupid question though seeing as there's no real way to test whether there was continuity of consciousness.

What was with everyone's eternal power stances?

If there was an afterlife imagine how overwhelmed it would be the instant the teleporter's invented, jesus christ.

>my outliers
I'm well aware that there are science fiction works that truly deal with the "what if". What would real human begins be like in x future situation. What would government look like given y. Etc etc.
They're the minority, the vast majority of scifi since the pulp era has been blatant allegory and you know it.

>Utopia
More cleverly disguised satire than anything.

So I'm not me when I fall asleep huh? Since, there's isn't an unbroken thread of consciousness

and please define 'physical continuity'

Also in addition to What is psycho-history a contemporary allegory for in Asimov's Foundation series?
How about the short story where two engineers on a spacestation debate reality with the on-board A.I. that came to believe the station is the only thing there is, since all that it can detect is itself, so clearly some sort of God needs it to do its job, and when the station is starting to succumb to disrepair, this God creates engineers to repair it, before destroying them.

What is that contemporary allegory for?

My logic, is that it works kind of like this:
There is an incredibly complex matrix function that the brain is running, which governs all thought.
A matrix of information, all things the brain is thinking at that moment is submited to this function, and it returns a new matrix, which in turn is fed into the function again, getting a new matrix, and so on and so forth.

Since the function, is your neural network, as long as you can store the matrix (which would the the state of the neurons at any given moment), you can continue the process exactly where you left off, and in the same way you would've otherwise, only the new input will of course be slightly different, because for example your eyes will not process the room you were in, as you're now in a different one, and so on.

And yeah, it's unprovable either way. I just wanted to show a different approach, from which point of view the continuity isn't over.

>I decided it's an outlier, so it is.
See above example.

Just because most contemporary "science fiction" is self congratulatory political drivel that can't be considered anything more than Young Adult fiction at best with a few resectable exceptions that do it right like George Saunders, doesn't mean Science Fiction at its core isn't precisely about these issues.

Even when it is criticizing a real concept, it's still exploring that concept, showcasing how it would work differently.

Couldn't they just stream the data two to re-assemblers in parallel? I mean the whole point of television was that multiple people could watch the show. And they were definitely able to reassemble multiple people at once. So while it might be true that they couldn't store the information there's nothing stopping them from cloning by streaming to multiple receivers.

Yes but it's no different from dying everytime you go to sleep

How would the information get from the simulated brain to the original brain though? The original brain didn't have that experience so of course the person wouldn't know about it when they woke up.

In fact, here, more examples:
>H.G. Wells: First men in the Moon
A story showcasing the idea for a method of traveling through space by creating an alloy that "blocks magnetism" and as such blocks gravity in specific directions

>Pretty much anything from I, Robot
Dealing with all sorts of issues that arise from a fictional set of rules

>H.G. Wells' Time Machine
While dealing with a few contemporary allegories, it mainly is about the nature of life, and learning to let go, dealing with reality, whatever shape it takes

I could go on.

Proper Science Fiction from before Star Wars fucked the pop-culture definition five ways to Sunday usually came in such shades.

Solaris, 2001. I could go on, but if you don't see my point yet, there probably isn't any reason to.

Or maybe his clone just remembers it that way and the original Barclay's still dead. They copy all the memories, remember?

good point

>Science Fiction at its core isn't precisely about these issues.
But it is, by way of numbers that is.
>Just because most contemporary
I've got a whole bunch of pulp, real dead trees, worth of scifi. A bit of a collection if you will.
Most of it is allegory for social issues. The vast majority.
Sex allegory.
Nuke allegory.
Religion allegory.
War allegory.
Political allegory (lot of commies writing in these serials to be sure).

It's all the same. Their are very few truly speculative works since the golden age of pulp. It's all a thin veneer for taking the piss with contemporary issues.

ok what if they could upload your brain while still alive and keep you awake and see if you are experience 2 different perspectives?

yes

by the same logic you die every time you sleep

They could, and honestly I'm not sure if they didn't do it at one point or another.

The thing is however, that unless you're dealing with military needs, there isn't much point to it. Two people can't go on living the same life, and unless one of those streamers can store them permanently (which again, is no small task), they'd have to.

And if you are going to use it as some sort of cloning method, even that is mostly useless in the Star Trek universe, because making and weapons is much more efficent than making foot soldiers.

Which is why a lot of people don't consider most of these Science Fiction, and why I'm saying most of them are self congratulatory Young Adult novels.

Because let's be honest.
No one beyond the age of 22 needs to read a book about the effects of Nukes, and if they do, it's probably too late for them.

To me, judging Science Fiction based on what the most common movies are, is like judging mid-20th Century cinema based on all the B-Movies that got churned out.
You can do it, and you even has the statistical advantage, but that doesn't mean they define what Cinema is, just because they have the numbers.

>making ships and weapons
-is what I meant to write.

I think that experience would drive most people so completely and utterly insane that they wouldn't be able to give you any kind of coherent answer to your questions, that sounds fucking horrifying.

There's continuity there, since you're still experiencing things, just at a much less visceral state

Not him, but say someone is resuscitated through a miracle of medicine after a horrible accident, is in a coma, and then he wakes up.

He was both dead for a while, and also in a coma. His brain didn't process anything for at least one of these.

Are you saying that the person who woke up from the coma is a different person?

Not really, according to the medical definition of what dying is. The people who say they die each time are the same people who think they're clever by saying Die Hard is a christmas movie

Because they are militant-trained and it friggin looks good dude. How do you want them stand, like hunched over stoners, leaning asymmetrically in every way possible? That's not Trek brah.

Watch The Prestige, my dude
"it took courage to climb into that machine every night, not knowing if I'd be the man in the box..." That stuck with me for some reason

If there's an afterlife and this teleporter is invented, would it start being filled up by copies of the same people?

Easy solution to the problem:

Pick up a group hobby.

Why?

Well if you're going to live, no problem.
If you're going to die, but there is no afterlife, it's not like it's going to be an issue for you anymore.
But if there is an Afterlife, sooner or later you're going to keep ending up with more and more versions of yourself in the Afterlife, and then, you can all enjoy the group hobby together, have a laugh at how much of an idiot you all were to not see it coming, share a drink with the new you who just figured out what happened, throw toilet paper at the apartment building entirely populated by your high school math teacher.

Bro down, yo.

It's just an over glorified copy machine and no one is aware of it because they die by the time they find out.
>Oh I gotta take a trip to California, I better teleport
DED
>unaware copy of you:Phew I made it now where was I.

What kind of miracle of medicine are we talking about? Has anyone ever been resurrected from brain death? I'm pretty certain they've never been resurrected from CELL death. If it's the second one, and the cells were dead and decomposing, and had to be reconstituted through some process, yeah that kind of sounds like a different person.

I remember that one short sci-fi story

> Dude goes into transporter
> Clone appears on the other end
> Due to malfunction, original is not destroyed

Now government wants to destroy him, cause it's fucked up.
>THEY DO

but it was not Trek lore.