Was Aragorn in the wrong here?

>Discussing Hackson's fanfiction

>killing the messenger

Yep.

Pretty stupid how Sauron was supposed to be this big bad guy and then this guy just walks up to him and chops his head off.

You're memeing but in the original version Sauron actually showed up for the battle and fought Aragorn, they replaced him with the troll though.

wtf i hate elessar now

This is the type of faggot that ruins threads with fanboyism. No rational discussion can ever be had when he's around.

Yes. That gingivitis guy was merely acting as a messenger between the two parties.

pretty much yes

not even ramsay bolton start sneak attacking during a pre-battle talk, however unpleasant the talk is

but from a tactical POV, he's out numbered, his men are freaked out and that's a good way to let them know there's no turning back

Where were you when the Prince of Rohan fell?

youtube.com/watch?v=d0Mtlklmna0

He insulted him a little bit

NOW GO HOME AND GET YER BURNIN' EYE, YOU FUCK YOU.

They absolutely did come to talk. The Mouth of Sauron emerged from the Morannon specifically to treat with Aragorn and his host.

Not that it matters, of course, because Aragorn did no such thing in the book.

For killing a messenger? No. He's the king, he can do whatever.

Will this kino ever be topped?

No.

Why did they even open the gate? they could have just shot Aragorn's army from the walls. The Black Gate is supposed to be impenetrable so what's the point of losing this advantage?

If you consider that the mouth is supposed to be an impartial messenger, not a liar then you could say Aragorn wasn't completely wrong.

Seriously, Aragorn's forces weren't prepared for a siege. Literally what the fuck were they going to do if Sauron just decided to ignore them?

Why not open the gate, they were already winning 100 to 1 anyway, and they are probably easier to kill once they are inside.

If Frodo and Sam were dead, no one would have returned to Minas Tirith, and the world of men would have fell. There was nothing else they could do, it all depended on Frodo, and making noise at the black gate was the best they could to maybe improve his chances.

Never in this life

One thing that's in the books, but the movies never managed to recreate, is how the bad guys feel like real people and not just mindless evil creatures. The orcs have opinions and would rather live in peace instead of going to war. The Nazgul's try get Frodo and the ring through diplomacy before using their sword etc.

>The Nazgul's try get Frodo and the ring through diplomacy before using their sword etc
I don't remember this. When? In Bree?

yeah, diplomacy might be the wrong word, but I remember they talking to the innkeeper and ordering him to unlock the door in the name of Sauron or something

thought that was a death note

>The orcs have opinions and would rather live in peace instead of going to war.

Their vision of peace is being bandits in the hills, raiding Gondorian villages.

>The orcs have opinions and would rather live in peace instead of going to war.

It's more like the orcs would rather fight each other than serve in an armed conflict under someone. They're naturally malicious and tribal, but in many regards they hate each other or even themselves more than they hate other races.

>The Nazgul's try get Frodo and the ring through diplomacy before using their sword etc.

Their diplomacy amounted to "give us the Ring and maybe we won't kill you", if I'm remembering right. Even in the books Frodo got stabbed pretty damn fast on Weathertop.

>emissary of middle earth satan

it's pointless to negociate with evil

>Sauron wants to literally wipe out the free peoples of middle earth and plunge the world into darkness
>sends an emissary after getting BTFO in Pelennor

Boo fucking hoo. This is old school fantasy, the evil guys deserve anything they get.

He wouldnt have shown mercy, if he had taken Minas Tirith. Sauron would have killed every woman and child.

>Boo fucking hoo. This is old school fantasy, the evil guys deserve anything they get
No, this is stupid fanfiction. It was unkingly thing to do.

>LoTR came out when you were still a young boy
>nothing in the rest of your lifetime will ever top it

just end my suffering

>expecting rational discussion on a Ethiopian stencil pornography board.

>Killing the emissary in the middle of a parlay because you're getting ass blasted by his words

Yea he was in the wrong there.

The Mouth of Sauran threatened that no quarter would be given which is considered a war crime today.

Guess he made it clear that they were gonna have a big boy fight with big boy rules and Aragorn said "lol okay noob, fight starts now".

Sauron only sent the guy out to mock and demoralize them with Frodo's shirt.

Yes. The only case of straight murder by a hero in the films.

A better question is if it was wrong for the US to use nukes on Japanese cities.

I say they should have used more.

Sauron didn't know that Frodo and Sam were almost there. To anyone without that information it would seem as a last stand by Gondor or a suicidal attempt to end the war, victory handed over on a silver platter.

So?

Was this part in the theatrical version? I remember watching the Blu-Rays and always being surprised when I see that mouthy fuck.

>Was this part in the theatrical version?
No.

So rather than sit there and let his troops get dismayed before their last stand his took action and lopped his head off.

There's no reason to show mercy when you're facing extinction.

do you think the mouth of sauron also does oral s-x for sauron? lol

>let his troops get dismayed
What troops? He was with the felloswhip over there.

>There's no reason to show mercy when you're facing extinction
>'What a pity that Bilbo did not stab that vile creature, when he had a chance!'
>‘Pity? It was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need. And he has been well rewarded, Frodo. Be sure that he took so little hurt from the evil, and escaped in the end, because he began his ownership of the Ring so. With Pity.’
>‘I am sorry,’ said Frodo. ‘But I am frightened; and I do not feel any pity for Gollum.’
>‘You have not seen him,’ Gandalf broke in.
>‘No, and I don’t want to,’ said Frodo. I can’t understand you. Do you mean to say that you, and the Elves, have let him live on after all those horrible deeds? Now at any rate he is as bad as an Orc, and just an enemy. He deserves death.’
>‘Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many - yours not least. In any case we did not kill him: he is very old and very wretched. The Wood-elves have him in prison, but they treat him with such kindness as they can find in their wise hearts.’

Have you even read the book?

Now you can go find me the part where Tolkien expresses any shred of sympathy for a character hailing under Sauron's banner.

Thanks.

Yeah, because Gollum isnt actually bad. He was a hobbit corrupted by the ring.

He also was making a point about morality of power. Especially about a creature weaker than a concealed hobbit with a sword.

Were talking about the mouth of Sauron.

Fuck off to Contrarianville.

seriously? In the wrong?
0/10

>what is Umbar and Harad peoples
>what is orcs given mercy after the scourge of the Shire

He does. Sam has an introspective moment, given to Faramir in dialogue in the movies, wherein he wonders about the soldiers of Harad and what led them to Sauron's side. There's also a number of lines expressing pity for the orcs, suggesting that their lives are so cruel and twisted that death is probably preferable for them.

Even Sauron gets a lot of sympathy from Tolkien before he goes 100% evil, in the Silmarilion he's treated as an often torn character who may even have had some legitimate good left in him until everything that happens with him in regards to Numenor. As far as I can recall the only character that never received any sympathy from Tolkien period was Morgoth.

>orcs
>in the shire

You mean Saruman's henchmen?

Those were humans you utter pleb.

>Were talking about the mouth of Sauron.
>Fuck off to Contrarianville.
He is literally a messenger. Possibly even unarmed. There is nothing contrarian about my words.

And were back to your messenger argument.

Your argument shall not pass, go back to the shadows in plebbit.

>‘Well I am staggered!’ said Pippin. ‘Of all the ends to our journey that is the very last I should have thought of: to have to fight half-orcs and ruffians in the Shire itself - to rescue Lotho Pimple!’

No you.

reminder that Boromir did nothing wrong

You said something about morality of power. The messenger is powerless, that's why I brought it up.

promise me Boro

>the messenger is literally the mouth of Sauron
>power-less

Literally kys.

FYI, the mouth had a sword on him

Stop with this unarmed shit

Why do you write like a fucking child?

He is powerless. He's a pawn. Mouth of Sauron is just a title.

You really are a fucking faggot aren't you? someone beats you in an argument so you try to make fun of how they write when arguing with a retard?

you fucking reek of reddit, gtfo.

I don't even understand. Do we have to seriously argue about ambassadors' right to safe passage and shit?

I agree. Maybe that would've stopped the cancer that is anime.

>If I say I won in an argument it actually makes me a winner
I thought it was a lotr thread. Not a fucking Cred Forums.

Daily reminder that being a messenger doesn't mean you can disrespect and threaten a king and his people/friends without violent consequence.

youtube.com/watch?v=QkWS9PiXekE

WAR CRIMES
A
R

C
R
I
M
E
S

>knowing what reddit is
Way to blow your cover

>the Mouth just rides off in the book
What became of him?

doesnt give you the right to kill an emissary dumb cunt.

he never showed his diplomatic accreditation

Hr didn't actually kill the mouth of sauron in the book, only in the Peter Jackson adaptation, so there's no point in discussing

he started a small business in Harad

Started a traveling circus.

He sells Frodo's mithril shirt to some fucko from the North and becomes a millionaire.

Wrote a book about his life and opinions on war crimes. Also he was reported to repeatedly state that Sauron did nothing wrong.

I wanted serious answers you fucks

Where now are the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the harp on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the deadwood burning,
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?

>tfw modern day Western Civilization

It's not specified, m8.

i fucked ur mom bro rofl

>I'm from Gondor and I say, kill em all
kek

Entirely worth TT extended for that.

should've worn that plate armor in fellowship and watch those arrows bounce off like tictacs

sauron thought aragorn had the ring. aragorn taunted him through the saruman orb

this might be explained in the books, but where did all the forces of rohan and gondor combined disappear all of a sudden? did they all die at the pelennor fields?

because it literally felt like they should have had a force of about 4000-5000 men (no women since eowyn was wounded lel) and not the ~100 we see on screen. the whole haradrim charge and legolas taking down an entire mumakil just by himself were over the top, but we never got to see a huge force fight against each other like we did in the beginning of fotr with the last alliance of elves and men. we got like small snippets, and no easterlings either.

Plate is conducive to long marching, which is what the fellowship signed up for.

*isn't

that's a huge pile of man meat waiting to be eaten

the orcs sees them as pretty much a huge take out delivery

Tolkien had a very strange sense of scale

They were pretty much all killed. But the force that marched out to the Black Gate was more than a hundred strong, it was about a thousand, maybe a little less. Also we do see the Easterlings briefly, they come in after the trolls once they break down the gates of Minas Tirith.

well that worked out for him real well didn't it

did they expect to not do any real fighting along the way?

>Saruman
>Sauron-man

Thank fuck.

why the fuck were they marching anyway, couldn't elrond spare a dozen horses?

Not really no. They wanted to avoid most people and didn't expect the enemy to put together any real combat force until they got to Mordor.

Speed was supposed to be their advantage but it got fucked over because of Saruman.

>plunge the world into darkness

>Sauron had never reached this stage of nihilistic madness. He did not object to the existence of the world, so long as he could do what he liked with it.

With the world under his rule, and no-one to threaten his position, would he be content in victory? With his enemies utterly defeated, would his malice soften with time? I don't think he wanted to wage war against the Valar, or free Morgoth; I think his motives were similar to Saruman: to rule Men (the Orcs were just useful fodder) and bring order.

Stealth. Horses are incredibly hard to hide, especially from somebody who has eyes in the air. They can also be tracked very easily. They're also not suited for travelling on all terrains, and consume a lot of supplies. The point of the Fellowship was that they were meant to be like a special forces team. Travelling undetected and infiltrating Mordor without Sauron knowing. The longer they remained hidden, the greater their advantage.

They might have left and attacked Minas Morgul the spooky castle sam and frodo passed

pretty sure he'd end up trying to attack the valar and harvest the undying lands.

he would not want to cuck himself by sharing anything with melkor at that point.

Well it depends on how you look at it.

Looking at just the act itself Aragorn is wrong for killing this man(?) as he is an emissary who is also unarmed which would defiantly be seen as morally wrong if not a crime even in a feudal society like LOTOR.

But looking at this in context, it almost certain that Sauron and those who server him do not respect law and have repeatedly broken it and was the situation reversed TMOS would do the same if not worse.

If you consider imprisonment and capital punishment from the perspective of John Lockes social contract then it is said that if a person breaks the law and violates someone's rights then they lose their own (i.e if you murder someone you will lose your right to freedom by being imprisoned or maybe your right to life through execution), therefore it can be reasonably argued that through his repeated flouting of the law and honourable customs Sauron and his representatives have lost any rights they have to not have the same visited back on them.

Also he is a scary monster man so it's fine.

so, Sauron = Putin

>he point of the Fellowship was that they were meant to be like a special forces team
that's why they bought 4 untrained midgets?

because friendship is magic

Sauron thought Aragorn had the ring.

they say that hobbits are good at not being noticed

>that's why they bought 4 untrained midgets?

And a pony, and still they end up running into more monsters than Scooby Doo on Halloween.

Who was in the wrong here

They were never supposed to be part of the team. It's specifically stated Sam, Merry, and Pippin weren't invited to the meeting. They just volunteered to go be they're bros.

sauron wasn't satan he was more like an evil magical dictator. what's his nuts was closer to satan, morgoth.

This.

Cucks need to stop acting like a title means protection from the man code: Talk shit, get hit.

>I'm from Minas Tirith and I say, kill em all

>daisy will never play frodo in a remake

WE WANT DAISY

a distraction to give frodo a chance to get to mount doom. pretty sure this is stated.

Well at first the Nazgul actually tried bribing a Hobbit to find out where Frodo lived.

>has a big mouth
>get it?
>because he's the MOUTH of SauronxD

Bravo, Hackson.

He had a son named moot

The orcs are just used to living a savage way. Plus, Sauron infuses them with rage.

Tolkien was a devout Catholic, and he said many times that making a sentient creature inherently evil was contrary to his beliefs.

He did say he regretted making the orcs inherently evil but there's never been a record of him actually changing that in the narrative.

>He was an emissary, so yes.

Did he kill him in the books?

He never said he regretted that.
He said he made the orcs corrupted, not inherently evil, to fit in with his beliefs.
Even Melkor wasn't evil from the start, why would the orcs be?
Read his letters compilation and HoME.

It was part of the plan to provoke Sauron to attack them so Frodo and Sam would go and finish their mission unnoticed. Dick move, but I'd say considering the plan and the nature of Mordor it was an ok thing to do.

The Mouth is such a great concept, but the execution in the movie was horrible. Cartoonish to the point of breaking the tone of the movie.
Wish they'd went with the original idea of casting a beautiful woman in the role.

better joke

Sauron had only a fraction of his force behind the black gate, probably a just in case army. The movie messes with a few events so you never see how many men are left.aragorn is supposed to show up with more men, not ghosts, and the defenders of minas tirith dont die in the numbers they show. when the combined army is in a big clump outside the black gate its on a hill(thereby gaining the high ground) but they leave out that theres 2 hills an aragorn split his forces between them.

haha nice

To be fair he's not actually in the movie, he was cut from the theatrical release which is the definitive historical version of the films.

I liked that though. No visible eyes and a giant mouth, the guy was creepy. Games-workshop made a miniatures game for the lord of the rings and they have a bunch of stuff that wasnt in the movies and black numenoreans were some of them, very evil feel to them.

>horses on kayaks

Yes. Summary Judgement. Divine Right of Kings.
It was a thing. Works well in High Fantasy.

I would say all of them.

They had a fire
They all started making noise
Frodo put on the ring

When will they change the scene so the mouth of sauron shot first?

most courageous guy in middle earth coming through

Don't insult a king and his ability to lead his people to his face. At that point the king has to kill you to retain his dignity or else he looks weak.

youtube.com/watch?v=1ot9JtiHhiU

Where Was Gollum Originally Planning To Take The Hobbits?
First leading the hobbits to the Black Gate before realizing their intention, he plans to lead them to another, secret way into Mordor. Except Faramir waylays them, making Gollum feel betrayed, so he plots to kill Frodo and steal the ring. He plans to lead the hobbits up the secret way into Mordor where Shelob will attack them. But Gollum didnt actually change his plan at all. He led Frodo and Sam the exact same path he always intended. Did he forget about Shelob until he started plotting or did he know a route round the spider's lair?

In the books, gollum always wants the ring. The movies give him a little change of heart to give him more depth but he's suppose to be so utterly corrupted that he'll never rest until he has the ring. The plan was to kill the hobbits the whole time.

>did he know a route round the spider's lair?
Yeah

He probably knew a way to get through without going through Shelob's lair. Or would have lead them through unharmed rather than abandoning them.

I always thought it's kinda odd that Aragorn insisted on sparing Grima Wormtongue but decided to kill the Mouth of Sauron. Seems out of character to me.

Mercy in this world is usually associated with the character in question having a purpose still. The mouth of sauron has no purpose if your aim is to kill sauron. He's a corrupted piece of shit just like the orcs.

How Did The Palantir Get In The Water ?

>hasn't watched the EE

youtube.com/watch?v=WKw8406hRc4&ab_channel=MrRush1974

Yeah but in the theatrical release? Is it explained?

No

youtube.com/watch?v=R4XvSTj91yQ

Nah it's just assumed it fell in during the assault

sure but since they crashed the party just tag along then.

was the original fellowship just supposed to be 6 people or did 3 other actual warriors got bumped?

Nah it was just supposed to be 6. Remember it was outright a suicide mission. They took any and all volunteers.

The takers were Gimli, Aragorn, Boromir, and Legolas. Gandalf was the guide and Frodo the bearer (reminder he also volunteered to be the ring bearer)

Nobody else wanted to take it and some didn't even want to destroy it.

this, Elrond didn't really care if Saruon got the ring back.

he was going to GTFO of middle earth anyway. he probably struck a secret deal with Saruon to send the ring his way by midgets as long as the dark forces leave his boats alone

also it'll be a nice bonus if Aaragorn gets killed so his daughter can marry a nice elven boy

They were in buckland at frido's fake house ordering door to be opened in the name of mordor because they thought that's where he was at.

Jaden?