What's Cred Forumss opinion of this scene?

Its a really stupid scene in a really stupid movie

But yeah I still like this scene for some reason

The series' sole theme was ripping off authentic philosophical theories and turning them into an adolescent's wet dream, so I'd say orgiastic raves and sex with Carrie-Ann Moss fit the bill perfectly.

It's an objective fact that the movies just got worse as the Wachowskis attempted to actually think through and articulate the more serious ideas they were playing with in the infinitely superior first movie, and that drop in quality is 100% due to scenes like the Architect.

It's a boring, badly written and sophomoric waste of celluloid that kills the pace of the movie and completely veers away from the core principles that made the Matrix great, namely Berlin S&M chic, corny one-liners and completely over-the-top action sequences.

This was suppose to be intellectual?

Came here to post this.

If you analyze it slowly it makes perfect sense... do you need me to explain it to you? It doesn't take away from the movie at all it actually strengthens the lore

It was just a lofty explanation of neo's place in the matrix algorithim and the inevitable position it put him in... wasn't supposed to be anything more or anything less

youtube.com/watch?v=Fxx7g5nz4WQ

This is better.

No, THIS is better

youtube.com/watch?v=aGgBjAR3lys

>As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.
Explain this. How does it create these fluctuations? What constitutes the most simplistic equation? Like linear equations, or arithmetic? This might seem like nitpicking, but it's supposed to be the basis of why the One comes to exist, and just another clumsy element of how the Watshowskis trannies try to force their bullshit and shallow philosophical conceptions in order to justify a secular, yet actualized messianic story.

I applaud them for making a story that was clearly meant to be something beyond filler for action scenes, but it fall apart continuously along the way.

Anna Faris was a straight 9/10 in her youth.

I think we should just kill off women once they reach a certain age, in order to preserve them in their prime.

Me too
I stopped caring about the movie after it. All I could focus on was waiting till everyone went to bed to I could watch it and fap before the movie had to be returned.

I recently rewatched the trilogy, and its really dumb and out of place.

It really isn't. Scary Movie 3 is pretty terribly-written, but MTV is even worse.

Scary Movie 3 was trash

(you)

Are you replying as if he's wrong, or he's saying something that's so obvious, it doesn't need to be said?

Scary Movie was basically the precursor to those rock-bottom parody movies that started being released in 2007.

literally too deep for plebs who cant follow the story

Because Math can't control the human spirit. The most perfect equation will be always eventually be unbalanced by the emergence of the One.

Did you watch that scene to the end? Because he perfectly explains the answer to it. The fluctuations the error, are all systemic leading back to the problem the matrix algorithim has with allowing humans to choose. CHOICE is the reason for the fluctuations and Choice is what created anomaly of Neo... he was the only one with enough belief to choose not to die. Which is why all his actions led him to those two doors. To make a choice between saving trinity or saving Zion. The architect designed the path to lead neo to those two choices in his best attempt to control the outcome of such an anomaly as "the one"

user's point is that equations can't be subject to fluctuations, the words just don't fit in the same sentence. A mathematical equation is not capable of having different solutions at different times.

No matter how deep the lore may be, that monologue is poorly written, that scene is out of place, and the Wachowskis were trying far too hard to be clever, to the point that they exposed their own ignorance.

The first Cred Forums I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled
only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection
inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of
your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it
required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by
another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix,she would undoubtedly be its mother.

I don't see how it would make a fluctuation.
Human being have free will, therefore, sometimes 1+1 is not equal to two? What is meant by a fluctuation? It seems they tried very hard to make a real and metaphysical messianic story purely from science fiction and within the context of a world built of programs where the characters could pull off ridiculous fighting moves and having a legitimate exploration of the meaning of experience, and perhaps this could have been done with success, but they didn't. It all comes across as them struggling to fir their themes and events within their lore, and it's not sufficiently explained, and what's explained makes little sense.

Agreed. After 3 I gave up on that series. Even 2 isn't as great as 1. Ghostface is perfect.

Concordently

The Architect is not meant to be a wise man who knows everything. He's a fool who attempts to apply his own logic to everything. His mathematical equations have fluctuations because he's trying to apply it to something that can't be solved through a mathematical equation.

Why do I get the feeling ZeroOne doesn't like The Architect?

>Because he perfectly explains the answer to it.
Did he?

>The fluctuations the error, are all systemic leading back to the problem the matrix algorithim has with allowing humans to choose.
I think that's what I said. I'm just asking why. It's just something that I have to accept, but it goes beyond a contrivance to being incomprehensible and it's just clear that's it's all done to have a story where Neo is a messiah, but it's all based on computer programs, but it was rigged from the start.

The rest of your post just summarizes what follows next, while I don't think the initial problem makes any sense. I don't see why humans having choice would make any simulated world for them impossible. Again, this clearly isn't the point, which is for the Watchoutskies to peddle their community college-level understanding of philosophy and for cool action scenes, but plenty of movies are much more coherent even for this purpose.

Neo died and decided to come back to life.

Several Bullets + Neo = Dead

Neo broke the equation.

It's written like someone making fun of first year students, and then played completely straight.

I thought there would be a punch line, but it's just that jail bait from Lost in Space. What's the point?

To all the people saying that equations can't have fluctuations:

Many algorithms are probabilistic, meaning they can have different solutions with the same input. It's usually because of sampling additional (pseudo)-random data used as input, but implying that probabilistic algorithms and equations don't exist is false.

A good example of such an algorithm is the Miller-Rabin primality test. With high probability it can determine if a number if composite. However, you typically run the algorithm many times in order to have a high degree of certainty about this.

>The Confused Matthew philosophy rant throughout his entire Matrix Reloaded review and the Architect scene

Based

I can see that this argument is becoming circular but you and the Wachowskis literally don't understand how mathematical equations function on the most basic level.

What they wrote is 3 minutes of technobabble to try and pretend that their first movie was anything other than a fun romp that borrowed ideas from more serious philosophical works, mainly Baudrillard (who was quite rightly unimpressed by how infantile their interpretation of his ideas really turned out to be).

Actual philosophical theories about the universe being a simulation existed prior to this trilogy and went far, far deeper with the concept without ever proposing for a second that anyone could download kung fu mastery and dodge bullets. So when the Wachowskis went looking for lore to justify their movie about dodging bullets and downloading kung fu, they came up short on reading material and had to improvise, which meant the world got two unnecessary movies full of D&D-tier world-building.

You are a dullard

Do you not understand how I'm saying that the entire basis of all the events in the trilogy is based on something that is arbitrary and nonsensical?

The Matrix had a very simple and compelling idea robots generate electricity by growing humans, and they have this simulated reality to keep us humans busy. I actually can't remember why they have the matrix at all, but we can at least relate to it from our familiarity with dreams, and raising humans to generate electricity wouldn't work, but it's a lie that might fool some of the audience. There's also the important part it's a very interesting idea of all of reality being simulated and people being able to become awakened by questioning things. People shitpost every day about being redpilled because of this movie. That's how compelling it is.

The part of free will making the matrix, or equations fail to function properly can't really be hand waved. It's just connecting concepts together that's incomprehensible, except that I see the creators had a problem and this was how it was resolved. And then there's the problem of why this results in the One, why they don't just slaughter people who can't accept the Matrix, how the plan of leading the One to the Source was supposed to work when they tried every possible means to destroy him and he just narrowly getting there, how the anomaly of choice even creates the One, why that anomaly not treated would destroy the Matrix, etc. Maybe individually, these problems wouldn't kill the story, but it's just a slog of exposition points that are confusing or incomprehensible the first time, and completely baffling on further inspection. They were patching the story up at this point, and it's way too clear in analysis.

That's one benefit, perhaps why they chose the incredibly sesquipedalian and obscure explanation, because it would trick audiences into thinking the answer was too complicated and filled with hard words to understand and that it actually makes sense, but it makes no sense. There, of course, is no true explanation, and it's not merely poorly explained. It's again, just context for the philosophical ramblings, action scenes, and soft-core porn, but it's just poor storytelling, plain and simple.

Geez, user. You like this movie and only got that far? He didn't get anywhere. He on-track to becoming like every previous One, except he rejected the choice, and created an enemy that would force the machines to make a deal. Merely rising from the dead didn't cut it.

drivin to bank, cash my check
sippin on dank, trsah my wreck
tippin on bank, drank like wreck
you be trippin if you frickin, i just dont give heck

>Many algorithms are probabilistic
kek, and he said the simplest equations. So it's poor writing on some level, right?

>Many algorithms are probabilistic, meaning they can have different solutions with the same input.
I understand the relationship between probability and free will, but I don't see how rejecting the matrix would ruin the simulation. It's just sort of connecting concepts of choice and ending a simulation and it's a completely arbitrary connection.

There is no such thing as a mathematical equation that results in different outputs when solved multiple times with identical inputs. Probabilistic algorithms give outputs within a fixed range, and as you've pointed out these ranges do not vary unless the inputs vary.

Implying that the whole bit about programming free will leading to "fluctuating equations" is anything other than pseudo-intellectual waffle is disingenuous and you should know better.

This. It was purely a case of let's put big words in the scene that say nothing.

You are the target audience of The Matrix: Reloaded

Oh come on, user. Doesn't make some sense that they clearly went overboard with the philosophizing in the second and third matrix, (even though it's actually much more restrained in the third one), and went beyond the simplistic philosophizing that their first movie justified?

Yeah I think this is bad writing

If he said "even the most complex equations" it would be made sense, as that means even the most advanced systems can't eliminate the anomaly. Saying "even the simplest" is a bit contradictory

>mainly Baudrillard
I have no idea who that is. I don't think this movie needed any other philosophical basis that maybe Plato's cave, or Descartes, or the implications of virtual reality. Sounds like this Baudrillard is full of himself.

>When you analyze it slowly, almost none of it makes sense

I dont get this

trinity getting dominated by smith? what?

wtf did you watch

>i'm a pleb

Sorry, don't post here enough to know memes associated with ""film" "critics""

I always thought of the equation as algebraic, in which humans, ergo The One, were x. They could change because of the nature of free will, vis a vis changing the outcome of the equation. Machines obviously cannot understand the nature of free will, making it a variable that they are concordently unable to predict.

I can't tell if you're just trying to rustle my jimmies, but Jean Baudrillard was a French philosopher whose book Simulacra & Simulation is referred to multiple times over the course of the first movie, including Morpheus literally quoting a line from it about "the desert of the real". Plato's Cave and Cartesian theatre are the ideas that inspired Baudrillard, whose book in turn inspired the Matrix, and he subsequently said he didn't like how badly the Wachowskis seemed to have misunderstood his ideas.

The fact that you don't even know he existed and can't be bothered to Google him makes you even more ignorant than the Wachowskis themselves, which explains why the Architect scene struck you as though it ought to make sense.

That's not literally the simplest of equations, that's an explanation that should have been in the movie, and that explanation doesn't make sense anyway.

>making it a variable that they are concordently unable to predict.
I still don't understand how this variable make the simulation impossible, or a bunch of other holes.

you're an idiot if you didn't understand it

youtube.com/watch?v=UTqVX8kPFcs

He's a faggot but he was spot on with that.

The whole point is that changing x doesn't make an equation "fluctuate", it makes it into a different equation with a different output.

Take
x + 1 = y

No matter the input (x), the output (y) will always remain the same.

There is no situation where x=1 and y "fluctuates" to become 3 instead of its normal 2.

The output is immutable based on the rules of the equation, even when the value of the input is a variable.

>No matter the input (x), the output (y) will always remain the same.

I should clarify that it will always remain the same for each given input.

1 + 1 doesn't give the same output as 121 + 1, but they will always give 2 and 122 respectively.

>I can't tell if you're just trying to rustle my jimmies,
Nope.

>referred to multiple times over the course of the first movie
I'll take your word for it.

>Plato's Cave and Cartesian theatre are the ideas that inspired Baudrillard
I guess, but I don't see how the trannies went beyond that. Unless Baudrillard literally wrote a script about edgelords learning kungfu with programs and the human race living in a simulated world, it doesn't seem like his ideas were that essential to the movie. Plato and Descartes have a better right to feel robbed.

>can't be bothered to Google him
Don't really care about the philosophical basis of this movie because it's pretty shallow.

>which explains why the Architect scene struck you as though it ought to make sense.
I don't see what your point was. I didn't think it ought to be anything, only based on my conceptions of what a better movie would have. Maybe I could have predicted that the trannies were being pretentious toffs and nothing they said would make sense in the climax as nothing made sense in dialogue scenes up until that point, but I don't see how I could have been much more enlightened on this point except knowing that the trannies drew their ideas from a more contemporary source and inappropriately quoted him.

Understand what? That's a picture of a critic, of which I know little. What makes me an idiot for not understanding the message? I'm genuinely curious.

Realize that the architect is an AI embodiment of the matrix, and essentially a machine. Algebra would be extremely simplistic to him. To a machine that deals solely in logic, human choice and free will would be the antithesis. You can see this in the first matrix they created. A perfect society, just what a machine would expect humans to adapt to. Only it was rejected and they lost the entire crop simply because they did not account for free will. Over the next matrices, they began to account for the anomaly that is free will in that The One would emerge and eventually come to the point Neo had just reached. It wasn't a perfect system, but it worked for their purposes.

>Algebra would be extremely simplistic to him.
Okay, this makes some sense.

>other bullshit
Okay, but I don't see how the simulation fails and creates the One. The argument here that you should make is that the details aren't important, not that what he said makes sense.

I understand the metaphor in it, but not what actually happened. The Machines, of course, don't care about the philosophical principles involved, only whether they can sustain a simulation for humans to power their network.

that poster literally gave you a direct quote used in the movie from the philosopher, how are you still doubting that his work inspired it

This, of course. We are talking about this movie, right?

I liked it

people are going to act all triggered like they are smarter than this robot guy. I thought he made sense without sounding ridiculous or anything.

If you didn't understand what was being said in this scene you don't deserve to watch cinema

I'm not doubting it, I even said I took his word for it, but aside from the quotes, I don't see how this movie needed inspiration from that particular philosopher over Plato and Descartes, at least for the original Matrix. Maybe he wrote it in a way that was more palatable to inspire the Matrix to hackfrauds like the Watchtheskies.

Do you have literal, not-meme autism? No one but you cares about the specific, literal meaning of the word 'equation', and you're not even actually correct about it anyway.

Besides which, he's saying that the equations necessary to govern the matrix fluctuate over time because humans are unpredictable, because humans have the ability to choose. The fluctuations inevitably continue to grow and once they become large enough, some humans find their way outside the matrix and form a society and try to fight back against the machines, eventually culminating in 'the One' (a human with a strong enough will to control the laws of the matrix) appearing. However, this is all part of the plan because the machines can then destroy Zion and the One and settle the fluctuations for a while - with the Oracle, a program not limited by the machine notion of 'perfection', being the origin and facilitator of this way to maintain the matrix.

Baudrillard wrote a long book that went into great depth about the plausibility of reality being a computer simulation.

The Wachowskis made numerous nods to the content of the book, even quoting a line, not to mention ripping off its core premise.

However, their movie also included a whole lot of bullshit about Gary Stu the Chosen One and his magical kung fu floppy disks and bullet time, because in their minds "reality might be a computer simulation" apparently equated to "reality can be Max Payne with god mode if you want it to".

To be clear, I agree that this movie didn't need a philosophical basis of any kind and could have existed as a single standalone action flick that was the height of fucking radical in 1999, but the Wachowskis apparently disagreed with both of us.

Turns out they weren't really taking in anything Baudrillard had written, and had decided to fantasize about a world where people always dress like they're going to a rave at a German sex club and can become anything they want to be just by imagining it. Go figure.

youtube.com/watch?v=H8pB1zRguAg

>2003

why does god hate zion ists so much?

>watching matrix movies for reddit tier "intellectual" scenes
>not watching it for the live action anime fights
Best scene in the movie was highway chase.

>The fluctuations inevitably continue to grow and once they become large enough
This isn't too clear. I don't see how this could culminate in a human gaining god mode and why he needs to go somewhere. The only additional part of summary not directly in speech was the fluctuations accumulating. It's just arbitrary connections to make a premise.

So basically Neo is the end result of humanity knowing it is in the matrix. Eventually a person will and must emerge who can bend the matrix to their will.
>Why am I here?
Because you have no free will. Neo's destiny is fate. His path was laid out for him before he was even created.

live action is a pretty strong term for some of those fights
the Neo-Smiths fight in Reloaded for instance

Horrible basis for a story, this kind of fatalism. but thankfully the Wachowski sisters matured.

Neo vs. Smith in Reloaded/Revelations is just CGI DBZ fighting

What is the point of having sex in the matrix world if you can't create life?

I mean, why does sex exist then?

>Baudrillard wrote a long book that went into great depth about the plausibility of reality being a computer simulation.
Oh, well that makes sense. I would have preferred that you mentioned this first.
>inb4 spoonfeeding
At least one good movie came from this.

>a whole lot of bullshit about Gary Stu the Chosen One
This was an acceptable addition and their take on the hero's journey, though it ultimately was not justified very well, or adequately.

>didn't need a philosophical basis of any kind and could have existed as a single standalone action flick that was the height of fucking radical in 1999, but the Wachowskis apparently disagreed with both of us.
I wouldn't go this far, only it didn't have to start quoting anybody, or go off the deep end in the second. While apparently very derivative of this man's particular idea of a simulation, having it and some commentary is better than nothing.

I watched that film today, less impressed because I've seen it many times, and the transition from practical to special effects were quite poor in some case, with the green screens being much more obvious that I thought I could detect.

>favorite scene in Reloaded
it's definitely got a charm to it and I love how they re-use the same "zoom-into-screen-into-reality" effect as they used to open up the interrogation scene in the first one

my favorite scene in Reloaded however was pic related
good camerawork and choreography fitted with a hype as fuck soundtrack easily makes it the best scene in Reloaded for me

I don't have the time or desire to break the scene down for you frame by frame, but I will say they it is either important if you care about the lore and story or the trilogy, or unimportant if you just want to see some kung fu and bullet time.

The anomaly in the equations of the matrix is free will. It does not allow for the machines to create a perfect system because humans will inherently reject it. Even the architect does not understand exactly what produces The One and he said as much. This makes sense because, if he did, it would be safe to assume that he would be able to eliminate that anomaly. What they can do, is exert some level of control or restraint, I assume through their control of the rest of the equation(s). This is why all roads lead to that room and the ultimate choice. If you look at the monitors on the wall, all are possible Neos, but all are saying basically the same things, just in a different way. The camera zooms in a few times during the scene to highlight this fact.

As to your last comment, I think the machines would care a lot about the principles involved insofar as they could leverage them to keep the charade going and sustain the crop. They seem to be resigned to do he eventuality that the crop will ultimately fail, at least until they can figure out what causes The One and if it is even possible to eliminate it, but I think they definitely want to extend the particular matrix as long as possible for efficiency. Just what a machine would want to do.

> No one but you cares about the specific, literal meaning of the word 'equation'

Not even the Wachowskis, which is why it's bad writing.

>you're not even actually correct about it anyway

Yes I am.

The remaining paragraph of your post is just synopsis of his speech which still makes absolutely zero sense when you try to imagine how that situation might even begin to happen with an actual, functioning computer simulation.

Bugs happen in code when certain variable inputs aren't properly forseen, sure. But if a bug caused the Matrix to crash, wouldn't everyone wake up simultaneously? Or is it a client-side issue, in which case each human ought to be their own One?

It is sci-fi nonsense pretending to be justified by its roots in actual philosophy, hiding behind words it's borrowed incorrectly from mathematics and computing. It's pseudo-intellectual all the way to the bone.

But seriously, watch an uncut version of the speech, and you'll see an agent schooling Trinity right after the Architect says they've become very efficient at destroying Zion.

I couldn't answer that, I've never had sex. If I had to guess, I'd say "for relief when you get horny", but that's based purely off my extensive experience as a masturbator.

>scene down for you frame by frame,
Unnecessary, as I understood the meaning of his words, just not what it means beyond the metaphorical conflict between machines and humans, necessity and free will.

>the architect does not understand exactly what produces The One and he said as much.
And neither does the audience. I see no connection between the anomalies and the ruination of the simulation, or why it results in the One. I suspect no good explanation could be possibly fathomed. It's just trying to give some explanation as to how a messiah would be created within these circumstances and how it's actually another form of control by the machines.

>I think the machines would care a lot about the principles involved insofar as they could leverage them to keep the charade going and sustain the crop.
I meant that beyond the metaphor of machines being unable to cope with free will as a concept, I don't see how they can't practically cope with it, as in just circumventing it with a course of action much less liable to failure than allowing Zion to form, having a One created, connecting the One to Zion, having a Keymaster, etc.

> at least until they can figure out what causes The One
I doubt they could because they're fictional and not even their creators could do it.

>but that's based purely off my extensive experience as a masturbator.
Unless you could develop an emotional connection between what this orifice is attached to, I don't see how it would be much more satisfying.

I think this can be explained through Cipher's monologue about the steak. It isn't really and he knows it, but it's pleasurable so it doesn't matter. Presumably neurotransmitters are released in the actual world based on activities performed in the matrix, just like real life and dreams.

If I understood the movie right, people who are jacked into the Matrix can theoretically become emotionally involved with each other since it basically connects their brain to a willpower-based internet.

That said, I don't think there's a single instance of this being shown on camera, since all the love in the movie happens in the real world.

I'm confused. I thought you would have sex in the matrix because it could be with a mindless program or simulation of a human. Your last post sounds like you would have sex with somebody you already have an emotional connection to, in which case, what's the point? Just have sex with them in real life.

The Architect explains that the matrix kept breaking down for reasons the machines (he) didn't understand. Luckily for the machines, a program specifically designed to investigate human psychology (the Oracle) came up with a solution, which was to give every human the unconscious choice of whether or not to stay in the matrix. Coupling this choice with suitable parameters for the simulated world eventually resulted in 99% of humans being content to stay within the matrix without realising it.

However now, rather than the whole thing eventually breaking down, the problem was that the 1% of humans rejecting the matrix would gradually accumulate over time into a society that could threaten the matrix. The other problem is that the choice-based constraints that were able to keep most of the population under control could also be bent by human will (the ability to choose) manifesting as superhuman abilities, actually just the local modification of the physical laws of the matrix. Eventually, the laws of probability dictated that by some freak series of events a human would appear with willpower several standard deviations above the mean who would be able to even return to life if killed in the matrix - the One. This is obviously a problem, so the machines created a system of cycles that would keep this in check by maneuvering the One, who was still 'irrevocably human', to a choice of the machines' design that would allow them to destroy Zion again and maintain control of the simulation. Then the cycle would begin again, and has done so six times already.

> meant that beyond the metaphor of machines being unable to cope with free will as a concept, I don't see how they can't practically cope with it, as in just circumventing it with a course of action much less liable to failure than allowing Zion to form, having a One created, connecting the One to Zion, having a Keymaster, etc.
That IS their workaround. As you can see during that scene, there is no chance of failure for the machines. They are able to determine the ultimate path of The One As well as Zion. It's the best they have at the moment, like I said, but it works for them well enough.

Wouldn't that be odd if the movie explained exactly what causes The One? Especially if the machines knew because then they should be able to account for it and eliminate it. I think it's apparent that it is caused by free will and the fact that, like you said yourself, equations may have only one outcome. Free will does not conform to the equations of the machines and the human mind is unwilling to accept its absence, so even if the machines could eliminate it, they may not be able to while still keeping their crop.

>Bugs happen in code when certain variable inputs aren't properly forseen, sure. But if a bug caused the Matrix to crash, wouldn't everyone wake up simultaneously
That's exactly the point, the machines were fundamentally unable to predict the humans because of the human ability to choose. The Architect literally says that his first version of the matrix was mathematically flawless and fell apart completely because of, basically, human free will which was impossible to make precise equations for.

I'm pretty tired of getting summaries of the speech. That's what your posts consists of: redundant summaries, speculations, and explanations of metaphors.

I perfectly understand the problems that architect had, not why it ultimately results in the matrix crashing, people leaving, (which would be impossible if a new Zion wasn't started each cycle), why they need to get the One to the source, or why the way they get him there is the best possible one.

>some freak series of events a human would appear with willpower several standard deviations above the mean who would be able to even return to life if killed in the matrix
This is a better explanation that what's actually in the film, but not really what's provided, only that he's the sum total of the anomalies, not that just results by random change frequently occurring.

"Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. "

Maybe it's ambiguous, but if they mean to say that Neo is entirely from the result of random chance and not the sum of anomalies, there was a better way to say it.

I still don't see why they need the One at the source, or why he needs to pick out the humans. I don't think you could even try to explain why they decide to chose such a precarious plan to get the One to the Source. Like, one of the agents almost killed the Keymaker. Was he just not in on it? Seems like a very poorly run operation.

No, as in the people in the matrix (who don't realise it's a simulation) have sex and fall in love with each other, and that they each obviously have a body in the real world but those bodies aren't necessarily anywhere near each other.

I enjoyed it. Didn't like the Neo vs Smiths because where do you go from there?

Your initial argument was that the speech didn't make sense. Now that at least three people have pointed out its consistency and validity in terms of plot, you're saying it could be presented better? I guess I don't understand your premise. You're taking some parts extremely literally, the others, you are expecting a metaphorical explanation. The scene makes sense in the context of the rest of the film. The monologue is important to the plot and is a summary and culmination of the events leading up to it.

The whole film is pretty sophomoric, so I'm not sure if you just wanted more out of it or what, but it's babby's first existentialism and determinism with cool bullet time and motorcycles. Personally I think it excels at what it does and achieves the original intent, but I can see how some might see it as pseudointellectual.

>That IS their workaround.
I literally got that, just not why it has to be this, or even why this works at all.

> As you can see during that scene, there is no chance of failure for the machines.
But there were plenty of chances of failure. Neo could have died before Trinity fell in love, possibly falling off that building, the keymaster could have died, Trinity might not have made it in time disabling the backup power. There were plenty of chances of failure.

I think he meant chances of failure in destroying Zion, which was probably true.

> It's the best they have at the moment
Why? It seems like a terrible plan? It's like betting your life savings several times on Back 38 and continuing to do so because it worked before, no matter how likely is it to fail.

>Wouldn't that be odd if the movie explained exactly what causes The One?
Not if it made sense, no. It seems like you're going to start rationalizing at this point. I don't see how this is the perfect level of vagueness for an explanation.

>Especially if the machines knew because then they should be able to account for it and eliminate it.
This is finally some justification of the vagueness. Realistically, I'm sure if technologically omnipotent machines wanted to enslave humans in a simulation, they could do it with few hiccups, choice or anomalies be damned. The idea just isn't plausible and needed an explanation beyond, "Well choice creates anomalies insuperable other than this really crazy scheme that's worked up until now." It perhaps should have been something they couldn't solve, but not so arbitrary that it's patent the creators were patching the story together.

>I think it's apparent that it is caused by free will
It's apparent because they said it, not how that makes any practical sense. It's like saying global warming is caused by CO2 gases, but not how.

concordantly...

vis-a-vis...

dicks...

The anomalies ARE the random chance. The machines can't explain what they are, that's why the Architect calls them anomalies. The sum of random chances accumulate to produce the One, just because of the nature of human will which IS the unbalanced equation. The machines don't actually understand this, just the consequences of it.

The key component of the plan is getting the One, a being defined by the ability to choose (and thus quintessentially human), to make a choice on THEIR terms. The One selects the humans to save because this apparent choice is really an illusion intended to PREVENT choice. One path is the red pill, one path is the blue pill, but it doesn't actually matter which the One selects because both pills are in the machines' hands - their master stroke is the satisfaction of the human urge towards free will. For the masses of humanity an unconscious choice is enough, but the beauty of it is that all they have to do to pacify a being of ultimate will is to offer an equally 'ultimate' choice. Neo is the only One out of the seven so far to see beyond this, aided by the appearance of the rogue element Smith, a threat that he inadvertently created and that only he can deal with, to find his own choice which ultimately breaks the cycle.

Perhaps they could have given a proper explanation that also would have explained why it happens, (not merely what), that couldn't be stopped by the machines through a plan that was less liable to error. Or probably not because no explanation could possibly be formulated. And apparently it's so obvious to Neo that he immediately realizes its choice, which begs the question of how he knows that when it only makes sense of a metaphorical level.

>Free will does not conform to the equations of the machines
I still don't see why this creates anomalies, or it wouldn't create anomalies if humans didn't have free will.

>the human mind is unwilling to accept its absence
Not like this is explained either.

> so even if the machines could eliminate it
They would just have to stop the process that makes the anomalies or make it easier to correct. It's like when actual virtual reality is created for human, this is going to remotely be a problem, so I don't see why it's a problem for machines.

well, dude, Neo is the """One""", and he's the biggest problem in the equation.

Agent Smith is to balance the equation, and there's loads of him, he is not """One""", rather the complete opposite

pretty cool stuff if you think about

If Neo died, if Trinity died, if the Keymaster died, then Neo would clearly have not been the One and the machines would have been able to kill him and clean up Zion. Only the One would have been able to reach that point (as six 'the Ones' had previously), which is why they only needed to care once he'd gotten to that point. The machines win no matter what because the human resistance either falls along the way or walks straight into their trap.

Also global warming is caused by the fact that CO2 is transparent at the average frequencies of electromagnetic radiation that the Earth receives from the Sun (yellowish) and opaque at the average frequencies at which the Earth emits electromagnetic radiation (infra-red), resulting in a net gain of energy over time.

Why didn't the machines just keep the humans in an induced coma?

People don't seem to understand this scene.
The architect created the matrix but cannot predict anything, so he plans for every possible scenario. This is why there are hundreds of TVs and when Neo asks a question, it zooms to a single TV, showing that this is one of the possible decisions that was selected but was still within the overall plan.
He created the structure of the Matrix which is the Matrix where all the people are jacked into AND the outside world outside of the Matrix.

I personally find the discussion on Causality to be much more interesting and more in line with my own views of Causality. It's also a scene most people don't understand even though it's pretty obvious.

youtube.com/watch?v=iR3fSL9WMdg

Every cause has an effect and everything is connected, therefore everything is deterministic.
To be told to do something is not a reason or a explanation for doing it. Following orders is not choice. When you do not understand the causes that lead to the effect, all we can understand is how we feel that happens within the effect.

It's great.

Because there are no humans, everything that happens in the movie takes place in one big computer.

It has to be that way at least for the time until the machines can localize exactly what is causing the anomaly. Like I said, they may not even care to do that because they are satisfied that what they have in their current system is good enough and/or they recognize that the anomaly is related to free will and they will not be able to remove it and retain a successful crop.

I think ot was a forgone conclusion that Neo would survive to that point. They knew intimately the capabilities of The One by this point. Maybe the rogue Smith could have thrown a wrench in the system, but it honestly didn't matter. As for Zion, they were never in danger from a group of ragtag humans. They knew the location and had basically infinite supply of machines to overwhelm them.

>apparent because they said it
This is my point. The machines knew it was likely related to free will, but would also likely realize that their first attempt (which had no free will, was the perfect world, etc) was rejected because of the absence of free will. This is easily inferred because that was the only iteration that did not produce a The One.

So they give a likely reason, but not precise. First because they don't know the precise reason. Second because it doesn't matter any way.

The Architect is actually a representation of the Demiurge. The Matrix films are not meant to be analyzed on their "surface" level.

For instance, instead of being about a false cyber reality inside of a true "red pill"/awake reality, the intended message is regarding our own reality and how we perceive it. The "sheeple" or Plebs or whatever term you want to use are "in The Matrix" because they don't REALIZE that they are trapped by false paradigms of this planet.

The Architect, as I said, is a representation of the Demiurge. Neo "unlocks" the path to finding the Demiurge. The "first matrix" is the garden of Eden. See how proud the Architect is of himself and his own achievements? And how he is "let down" by humanity and has no choice but to "doom" his realites and start again when people start to revolt? This equates to the great flood and Noah's ark, the Demiurge wiping out his own creation because he has become unhappy with it.

>Your initial argument was that the speech didn't make sense.
And I still maintain that.

> Now that at least three people have pointed out its consistency and validity in terms of plot,
I never said it was inconsistent, just making bold assertions that were incoherent, like free will causing anomalies. I always understood how this made sense on a philosophical level, not a practical level. In terms of the plot, they could make up whatever shit they wanted for exposition, just for the contrivance of having Neo as a messiah within his circumstances, having the prophesy as another form of control, and having Neo make a choice to save his love interest over the human race. This speech does serve it's purpose to provide this basis and fits the themes of the movie, but insufficiently explains several causes, and is too vague on successive points. That's my problem.

>you're saying it could be presented better?
I'm not sure. Maybe some points could be clarified, but maybe the fundamental causes of the movie are so absurd that they couldn't be presented better. The tranny team should have worked on their script again and produced one that didn't force the audiences to make so many illogical assumptions with the flimsy tie of philosophy.

> You're taking some parts extremely literally,
Not sure what this is referring to. Aside from the part about equations, (which some other user was arguing mostly), I think my questions are very sensible.

>the others, you are expecting a metaphorical explanation.
I was never expecting a metaphorical explanation except where I'm certain none could be given. I would like no metaphorical explanation, but that's all I can rely on, and then even then a little obscurely because of how the speech was written.

> The scene makes sense in the context of the rest of the film.
I agree in the sense that that speeches were filled with plenty of nonsense up until then and this just takes it to the extreme.

>The monologue is important to the plot and is a summary and culmination of the events leading up to it.
I never denied that.

>The whole film is pretty sophomoric, so I'm not sure if you just wanted more out of it or what
I wanted less. Just about everybody did. Something along the lines of the original, with the philosophizing far more restrained.

> Personally I think it excels at what it does and achieves the original intent
The original intent was flawed.

>The machines can't explain what they are, that's why the Architect calls them anomalies.
Then why even get that specific. Why not say, "Because human beings have free will, an anomaly occurs 1% of people will be released regularly, a human will be granted god mode every century or so, and he needs to come here to chose to save the human race. We can't explain any of this because it's an anomaly and free will is an enigma to use superior machines. That would have been more concise, and while it would have made slightly less sense, it ultimately also relies on, "We can't deal with free will, so a bunch of shit happens." This is a pretty pisspoor explanation, especially compared to what was found in the first film, which, while very flawed, is comprehensible beyond metaphors. They even got specific enough to name how much energy a human produces, and while it would be a very inefficient source of energy, it kinda works and is much more believable.

"The sum of random chances accumulate to produce the One"
That's not really how random chance works. It's not like in roulette, random chance accumulates for any particular result. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but one result is never determined by a previous one.

>just because of the nature of human will which IS the unbalanced equation.
I'm just going to skip things that are repetitions or summaries.
>The key component of the plan is getting the One, a being defined by the ability to choose (and thus quintessentially human), to make a choice on THEIR terms.
Seems pretty contrived to me to have a messianic and hero's journey story.

>The One selects the humans to save because this apparent choice is really an illusion intended to PREVENT choice.
What? I think your mixing metaphors and causality. The machines could just as easily choose the humans themselves. Unless some anomaly would be created by this point that requires the metaphor of giving the One a non-choice. Which makes it even more absurd.

>One path is the red pill, one path is the blue pill, but it doesn't actually matter which the One selects because both pills are in the machines' hands
No, not selecting the humans results in the destruction of the human race, which be better or worse to the human. You might say it makes no difference whether humans are enslaved or exist, but this was clearly a choice the previous Ones made based on their attachment to the species. Neo made the choice to save Trinity, (or rather, to let the human race die because apparently, her death was inevitable), so choice was not an illusion, and it was a stupid idea to let him make that choice, as long as the Machines prefer to keep the human race alive for their purposes. So I don't consider the final final a non-choice, and I think the reasoning speaks for itself, but I see now based on hearing your explanation what they were going for. I just don't believe it's literally not a choice.

>For the masses of humanity an unconscious choice is enough, but the beauty of it is that all they have to do to pacify a being of ultimate will is to offer an equally 'ultimate' choice.
I would have developed a system to better detect people for whom this wasn't enough and kill them, but that's just me. Having Zion at all made the process much more difficult because they could leave and become a menace.

>Neo is the only One out of the seven so far to see beyond this,
Out of the six. The Architect says it was the sixth version.

Meant to quote

Ok, I've read the thread a bit quickly and rewatched the scene.

>As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

The anomaly is Neo, of course. From what I got of what he is saying, he is talking that the presence of this anomaly affects the whole system and changes every other thing in the Matrix, even the most simple one. Just like the presence of one single person in the world changes everything else in a butterfly effect sort of way. I don't see nothing wrong with that. I don't think he is saying the equations change because of Neo, some might, some might just change the input, some might just change the "result".

Another possibility is that, since the Architect is such a big boss compared to us "flawed humans", what he means by simplistic equations could be extraordinary complex stuff.

Okay? I think most people view virtual reality as something that wouldn't fool the subjects.

Maybe the current reality is a simulation so people can get action and you just haven't just the opportunities yet.

>That's exactly the point, the machines were fundamentally unable to predict the humans because of the human ability to choose. T
Well, if you code the scenarios for every possible, choice becomes obsolete.

The fundamental choice here is either accepting or rejecting the Matrix, so it shouldn't be difficult to program a result for each choice, considering you only have two.

> basically, human free will which was impossible to make precise equations for.
Then the problem is that the Matrix would be too complex based on those choices, as it it couldn't create a scenario for every possible choice. The solution would be to create a simulation so simple that no possible choice couldn't be provided with an appropriate response.

Of course, this is all speculation. It's not like he says choice makes prediction impossible. Your speculating that. He just says choices or free will results in anomalies.

>Neo is the """One""", and he's the biggest problem in the equation.
Killing him off wouldn't solve the problem. He "code" has to be "disseminated." So he jizzes in a cup or something and chooses a couple of human beings, and that solves the problem.

>Agent Smith is to balance the equation,
No, what balances the equation is the dissemination of the code. The Architect balances the equation and the Oracle balances it.

The Watchouttrannies should have focused less on symbolism and pointless metaphorical relationships and had a more understandable explanation of the One.

>If Neo died, if Trinity died, if the Keymaster died, then Neo would clearly have not been the One
The extremely circular reasoning which isn't based on anything in the movie explicit enough to make it a rule. Neo was clearly the One, as confirmed by the Oracle, and his actions. There is not prophesy beyond what the Machines created. The was no metaphysical necessity for the One to succeed other than it happening like that by choice and chance. The prophesy or the necessity for the One to reach the source was an illusion created for the One to be guided to the Source. It wasn't an actuality, the One isn't the One merely because he failed. If this is what the men pretending to be girls thought, they didn't even understand the logic behind their own movie. It was Morpheus who believed in fate, the fate of the prophecy being fulfilled. But this was an illusion, and the machines just had a One that was created because of anomalies, who has to be guided to the Source. I suppose one might fail, but that means another One would have to be created. He might not be the One according to the prophecy, but he's the One that was produced according to the anomalies.

> the machines would have been able to kill him and clean up Zion.
And "failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash," (Of course, it's not explained why this happens either). This is undeniably shitty writing. It's not clear whether this is inevitable at some point if the One doesn't get to the door going to the Source in time, (meaning that eventually, a One might not reach there in time because of failing). or if once the One reaches the source, his "choice" will determined whether the "cataclysmic system clash" will occur. In the latter case, unless there's a timer that resets every time a One fails, it's bound to eventually run out. In the latter case, it becomes incredibly risky that a One won't chose to go to the Source, resulting in the crash, which would have happened to Neo. It seems like an incredibly shitty plan that I'm surprised worked six times consecutively.

This also makes the Architect stupid for showing Trinity falling to her death, which would only motivate Neo to not go to the Source more. Why even give him a choice? Why not just have one door, or lie to him about what he needs to do? Asking these questions makes me feel like I'm kicking a man when he's down. On pure level of coherency, this is one of the worst endings I've ever come across. In that sense, I would place it above the BioShock Infinite ending, but below the Mass Effect 3 ending, some of the rationalizations of which I'm hearing here strongly resemble ones I've seen for the ladder ending.

>The machines win no matter what because the human resistance either falls along the way or walks straight into their trap.
The machines "winning" is questionable if the One chooses not to go to the Source, which was clearly a possibility.

>unnecessary global warming explanation
I bet a lot of experimentation across decades was necessary to explain this. It's not like some scientist was presented the problem and it immediately occurred to him that it had to be CO2.

>it zooms to a single TV, showing that this is one of the possible decisions that was selected but was still within the overall plan.
Meaning that choice is clearly subverted? Or it wasn't a choice? This begs the question of why in this particular room, there's no choice, and it's accounted for, but choices outside the room cause such havoc? This seems like the best interpretation I've heard, but it's attempting a level of symbolism that isn't consistent with the rest of the rules established.

>To be told to do something is not a reason or a explanation for doing it.
Not literally true, of course. Being told to do something could be another impetus and a reason as much as any other.
>When you do not understand the causes that lead to the effect, all we can understand is how we feel that happens within the effect.
By this logic, somebody who didn't know the ultimate end behind their actions doesn't have power. The Frog asked why they were there, to which the wog answered that they were looking for the chink, which is a perfectly reasonable motive. The Frog concluded that, because they didn't know why they needed him, they didn't have power. The gang might have known why they needed him, but not known why they were pursuing that goal. They might have know that, but not the cause of that, and etc., etc. Finally, suppose a person couldn't give an ultimate cause for his actions, he wouldn't have power. Q.E.D. The gang clearly knew why they were there, and successfully executed it, meaning they had power, at least power enough to get the Keymaker. Q.E.D. A motive or a purpose is only necessary for power when knowing the motive is necessary to execute an action.

>It's great
kek, no it's not. The dialogue in this movie is horribly pretentious and stilted. Sometimes, one asked why they're even talking if they're meaning can be derived through merely subtext alone. The conversation with the Oracle is the worst example of this.

That was great!

Thank you for the Carlin.

Is this a joke? There are humans in the real world, and if they exist for the purpose of providing energy, (which isn't sound), why even have them conscious of an even simulated reality while having to deal with the apparent problem of choice, and just keep them brain dead. Wouldn't they produce roughly the same amount of energy?

This is a really good idea.

it always put me to sleep. I understood everything he was saying, but it was trying too hard and my mind would start wondering off.

I actually fell asleep in the cinema in that scene and made me decide to not bother with Revolutions.

>The Matrix films are not meant to be analyzed on their "surface" level.
I think you mean "literal" level, as the level that says it's about machines and programs and human.

I don't think connection to biblical myth doesn't go beyond the connections to a messianic figure. This fails to explain the second matrix, of the multiple messiahs.

2 is the best you pleb

I remember when she was the girl from Party of Five.

Damn that was so long ago it hurts now. Maybe it always hurt and I'm just noticing it now, because everything hurt back then, all the time. Things are quiet enough now, on the Internet, at night with Cred Forums, that I realize how many times the girl from Party of Five broke my heart into a thousand little pieces, and I didn't even watch the damn show. Not even once.

The kikehowski brothers took the Matrix story and made it technical and scientific, when the first one had intellectual/spiritual roots. They really departed from the themes of the original to get into the science part of their science fiction. Not a great direction on paper given the success of the original, IMO. And so do delve into this they need this guy, and they build upon the machine-like thinking of Smith in the original and turn it into full autistic mode.

All the menace and mystery surrounding the matrix disappeared over the course of this movie. Everything that made it good was... deleted.

>The anomaly is Neo, of course.
No, I think the "anomaly" is choice. I could see how you would come to say that, considering agents refer to Neo as the anomaly. But previously, the Architect refers to Neo being the result of an anomaly. Or maybe you're right, and Neo is the anomaly. This mean, it's not clear what actually causes him, or what's meant by "sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix," or why he would create fluctuations in the simplest equations.

>I don't see nothing wrong with that.
Except there's no explanation why this happens. It's incredibly contrived just to have a messianic figure in a world ruled by programming.

You know, all your obsessive analysis to try to provide a coherent understanding of the speech, and you didn't even realize that it makes much more sense for the "anomaly" to be Neo, not choice as such.

Even if you disagree, it's a very compelling interpretation of that word. Tell me, is it really a good idea to have such incredibly obscure and vague explanations as a climax of a film? I bet there wasn't even a 100 people out of the millions who watched this film who knew exactly what the writers were trying to communicate and weren't at least slightly annoyed that they didn't understand what exactly the big reveal was.

With such an estimate, I would say it's a failure. If you could have a completely inscrutable movie to every person on the planet except yourself and claim that it's great but you don't understand it, that's a perpetual shield that nobody can unanswerably crack, unless you say that a movie has to meet some bar of comprehensibility. The Matrix Reloaded, in my opinion, did not meet it.

No, it is not a joke. There are no humans. Even the humans themselves are but machines. It's just one big computer imagining a war with itself as a bug debugs the system and programs fight themselves.

Hence, when the Architect says that he has solved the problem of choice, this is what he means. He created an Eden but people wanted choice, so he created a simulation. But then people were unhappy, so the Architech creates a second layer Matrix (the real world) where people can rebel against the Matrix and the robots but are still within the Matrix. But this all takes place within a huge computer. Every human and program are one and the same.

There's the Matrix->2nd layer Matrix (fake real world)-> 3rd layer REAL world that is never shown.

This is why Neo is able to stop the machines at the end of the 2nd movie and jacks himself into the Matrix. The whole battery bullshit is bullshit.

Architect*

I would love to hear your opinion on MGS2. Was it all a simulation, or a simulation within a simulation? Only two possibilities, unless there are even more levels of possibilities.

>Hence, when the Architect says that he has solved the problem of choice
No, that's just the Matrix that results in Neo, somehow.

>This is why Neo is able to stop the machines at the end of the 2nd movie and jacks himself into the Matrix.
This like a version of the Indoctrination Theory, where fans basically resort to, "It was all a dream," when things start to happen that completely break continuity or plausibility, so you have the excuse that "it was all a dream."

No, user, that's not what the hacks had in mind when they wrote this. That was just bad screenwriting. I won't lie that your explanation solves the problem, but it's just resorting to the most literally surreal explanation so nothing really has any consequence and nothing has to make sense. Continuity broken? That was just the 2nd layer of the Matrix glitching.

...

Not that guy but MGS2 literally all actually happens, fucking hell.

...

It is math, basically. The Matrix allows choice, some accept it and some reject it. Every time someone rejects the Matrix, it is a singular error. Too many errors, and it crashes.

Simply put, everytime someone rejects the Matrix and creates an error, it is tacked on to The One. The One must eventually give up their source code, or whatever, to balance out the equation.

>Population that accept = X, The One (with tacked on Errors) = Z
>X+Z = X+Z, but we don't want errors. Subtract Z from the left and right, algebra.
>X=X

>Too many errors, and it crashes.
Another element that was poorly explained. There was one off-hand comment about there being more minds freed in six months than in six years, which was supposed to be the Matrix crumbling. I guess they fucked that up.

So it's not people rejecting the Matrix that creates the errors, but the creation of the anomaly, or the one. How could you not see that it's so clear? It's not like this movie was written by two tranny pretentious hack frauds who took a first-year philosophy course and failed before they wrote this movie? It's a perfectly coherent work of genius, and if everything isn't perfectly clear to you even after all this time, you're a total idiot.

You're basically repeating a variation of what other people have said. It gives the impression of having a logical sequence, but it's clearly just connecting events that only have apparent relationship with each other. It's not clear what it means to reject the Matrix, how this creates an error, or how it's tacked on the One, etc.

This might be nitpicking, but it's like a cascade of contrivances that's just patching up the story so they could create this messianic hero's story and it's delivered all within a matter of minutes at the end of the film as the climax.

It was shit, the sequels are shit. Primarily because of how unnecessary they are and how they actively work to undermine and ruin the originals perfect story and ending.

Don't you all find it more odd that capitalism has forced everyone to have the choice of being familiar with this series of films?

It's like we're jacked in to this Matrix with horrendous equatic fluctuaries

It probably means that the people who reject it are either redpills, or just have a feeling that all is not right. I guess you could say if you took all the conspiratards that really think this world is a virtual reality and pretend they're in the Matrix, then that's what the rejecting people would be like.

A better look at the effect of errors is the one bit in the animatrix where the kids go to...a playground? They're all bluepills, but they discover that the laws of physics decided to stop working. Then some Agents came around and sealed it off.

The only other reasonable contemporary I can give is how it's sort of similar to Mage: The Ascension, some old RPG by Whitewolf. In short, boogeymen, magic, and vampires exist, but because the vast majority of humanity don't believe that they do, Reality sort of shifted to punish (mostly) Mages that try to alter it.

I never really said it was a well thought out presentation, that part of the movie is retarded, I just kind of understand what they were going for. I would have preferred the sequels just being action/martial arts movies without all the philosophical faggotry.

>capitalism has forced everyone
I don't see how it did that. You were free to not watch these films, and if you're living in a country that's so undeveloped that it doesn't have computers so people could be familiar with the reference "red pill," that's quite complimentary to the system.

>The architect is literally supposed to be the gnostic demiurge, the architect of the universe.

>Basically this is the satanic view of the Judeo Christian God

>Neo literally kills God

Totally and completely Satanic.

Oh, and surprise surprise, the two men, who are now women, are complete sexual deviants.

> MORPHEUS, WHAT CAN WE EXPECT AT THIS ORGY
> MACHINES!

>then that's what the rejecting people would be like.
Hasn't really cased a crash. I think it's clear, (actually, not really), that the appearance of Neo is starting the crash, which is meant by "fluctuations," because he's the anomaly.

>A better look at the effect of errors is the one bit in the animatrix where the kids go to...a playground?
Not really interested in that. I've seen it, but it doesn't really real much important about the series. Almost nobody comparatively who watched Relaoded watched those movies, and I'm only interested in what people were supposed to understand when they saw it. I'm not even sure which came first.

>without all the philosophical faggotry.
As much as was in the original would have been acceptable.

> Cred Forums is capable of civil debate

i read this in ted theodore logan's voice and it made sense

>What is the point of having sex in the matrix world if you can't create life?
The same reason people have sex in real life without creating life.

They are perverse degenerates.

What do I think?

I think I've already talked about this scene in the other 1000 times someone else made a thread asking about this scene

my dad took me to see that movie after I talked up the original so much. I got worried and looked over at how awkward this scene must be but realized he was fast asleep. thanks boring movie.

strictly for intellectuals

Thats probably why the 1st and/or 2nd Matrix or virtual worlds have failed--they completely removed people having to perform sex and people inside 'why the hell does i have a P and she a V' and everything crashed

hey, do you have a place where you write out your ideas on everything?

I've seen you throw your thoughts all around Cred Forums for several years now, and you seem to have a distinct perspective on things. Do you blog or anything?

Nevermind, you're clearly just poignant about the film and don't realize how silly you are critiquing a stretched idea to better reach global audiences

I saw this at the movies when I was 16 and literally had no idea what colonel sanders was saying. I didn't know what the word anomaly meant either.
I still think he talks for a long time to not really say much at all. Neo, you've done this before. We always win.

This, but wasn't nearly as old.

>16
>not knowing what "anomaly" meant

"Retard," wouldn't be fair as much as "below average."

shut the fuck up. it's the best one.
after 1 and 2, of course.
but shut the fuck up.

Agreed. Everyone-grab-weapons is my favorite scene in the entire damn trilogy.

All of the Scary Movies are trash.

This, however, is legitimately good.

>Neo literally kills God
But he doesn't.

>My favourite scene in Reloaded was the sex scene
Only time i found trinity hot desu senpai. Went from "who is this fuggo" to beating my meat in 30 seconds flat

I loved this spoof so much, when MTV was still half decent.

>My favorite scene in Reloaded
That should be the final credits when you can finally go home.

>I would love to hear your opinion on MGS2. Was it all a simulation, or a simulation within a simulation? Only two possibilities, unless there are even more levels of possibilities.
Haha. Cute

>No, that's just the Matrix that results in Neo, somehow.
It's not. Neo is mathematical perfection that accumulates over time. Nothing more.

>This like a version of the Indoctrination Theory, where fans basically resort to, "It was all a dream," when things start to happen that completely break continuity or plausibility, so you have the excuse that "it was all a dream."
Uh huh.

All you've done is say ''lol sounds like a bunch of other theories'' and haven't said anything.

These movies were poor.

I was a pretty stupid kid.
Looking back I don't know how I finished high-school.

Stop posting with my name please.

Underwhelming.

Just like Reloaded and Revolution

They should have stopped at the first movie