Vietnam war movie

>Guerilla Warfare in a jungle environment produces far more PTSD than other military settings.
Why? Are there a lot of soldiers who are afraid of apes?

>innocent
Lol you fucking wish dumb faggot

It's not as bad as being shelled, that guy's argument is nullified by the tragedy of mental health exhibited by WW1 vets. They had it much worse and still retained their national pride and dignity.

It aint me

>more allies died fighting in one day of WW1 than a decade of the Vietnam war.

Heres the more explanation.

Few men can be soldiers. The way combat changed, meaning away from up-close encounters towards ranged combat, pussified men.

If you think firing a gun at someone, imagine ramming a fucking sowrd through someone. Imagine parrying his thrusts. Imagine being inside a meatgrinder of speers, cavalary and arrows.

Yeah, mortar fire and tanks are terryfying aswell. But hand to hand or sword to sowrd combat cannot be compared to modern warfare.

tl'dr, pussy men cant handle violence.

really makes u think..........
youtube.com/watch?v=t9eybY9qFfY

Because they sent a bunch of kids fresh outta higschool to kill villagers at the other side of the world. That's gotta fuck with your head no matter what.

In World War II the average age of the combat soldier was twenty-six.
In Vietnam, he was nineteen.

youtube.com/watch?v=hRJFvtvTGEk

It's actually much less terrifying and much less dangerous to be in a body of men fighting other men when compared to being under shell fire, maybe 5-10% die and most are captured.There's a humanizing element that makes you much more likely to spare your foe, and a real financial benefit to capturing him.

WW1 is different. It's hell. Casualty numbers are insane, regiments are down to 80% after a few months on average. Sometimes over 100,000 men die in a single day. The illusion of control is gone. You're a rat in a hole, and you know it. All the flowery rhetoric of war is burned away in a firey hell of shell fire, like having a rock concert's speakers turned up to 200% and blasted right into your ears for 9 hours straight. PTSD isn't a matter of strength, but time. It's inevitable, anyone will break under those conditions, and they all did. Read the diaries; these men were shitting themselves and crying for their mommys like 4 year olds, coming home and screaming inside mental hospitals for decades later. The illusion of control is utterly shattered, death is mere chance and there's nothing you can do to better your odds. No skill factor to overcome, just cold probability and luck. If the enemy overcomes you, there is little reason to capture. Men on the front can't handle feeding and quartering prisoners, they can barely feed their own soldiers. Entire nations were being burned and squeezed for every bit of wealth they had to throw in a meatgrinder. The distance between soldiers dehumanizes the enemy and allows them to pull the trigger without morality getting in the way. No financial or moral incentive to spare your foe. Acts of humanity and heroism in an environment that gives you absolutely no incentive to do so is far more inspiring then anything that's ever happened in warfare before WW1. It was the worst war in human history for the guys on the ground, and it also brought out the best in humanity.

Certainly not a walk in the park, but they were the worst conditions people have endured in war in recent history. Americans weren't involved in that, though. Vietnam is their shitty war.

t. somebody who has never seen real violence in his life

A jungle/forest battlefield adds claustophobia to the mix.
Bullets seeming to come from nowhere and ripping apart the dude next you you and easily getting ambushed by the people that know the terrain much better than you do.

Some scary shit.

Only about 60k Americans died in a decade of Vietnam.

That's like a Tuesday in WW1

You are correct.
That wasn't what I was getting at, though.

I was talking alluding to why so many Vietnam vets ended up shellshocked.

What about WW2

More movement, less time dug in and rotting in your own feces under shell fire, more agency in your survival (less "charge that machine gun" and more "cover fire and flank that machine gun")
It was better to be a soldier in WW2 when compared to WW1 for the most part. Obviously horrible shit happened in both wars but WW1 was some apocalyptic shit where you fought on the same ground that millions had already died fighting over, literally standing on a floor made of bodies and and a trench with arms and legs sticking out of it because they can't get out of the trench without getting killed. That shit is pure hell, and it was a much more common occurrence in WW1

Reading this thread really makes me mad at EA for ruining the publics perception of ww1, now everyone thinks it was a fun super exciting war full of diversity tm

The average infantryman in the South Pacific during World War II saw about 40 days of combat in four years. The average infantryman in Vietnam saw about 240 days of combat in one year thanks to the mobility of the helicopter.

>One out of every 10 Americans who served in Vietnam was a casualty. 58,169 were killed and 304,000 wounded out of 2.59 million who served. Although the percent who died is similar to other wars, amputations or crippling wounds were 300 percent higher than in World War II. 75,000 Vietnam veterans are severely disabled.

Arguing conditions is stupid. War is hell in any capacity. Being in mortal danger 240 days in a year is what made many Vietnam soldier's experiences particularly damaging to their psyche.

>comparing Vietnam to WW2 instead of WW1

That massive movement of the goalpost

Daily Reminder Nixon wouldve ended the war the right way.

Daily reminder we should have listened to Goldwater scorch earthed the shit out of that place

Daily reminder one country after another fell after Vietnam to communism

Daily reminder communism won

A fictional movie that established a troubled character who, despite all his mental scars and other flaws, is depicted as "our guy", at least in the sequels.

In addition to everything else that has been said here, the foreign climate can really mess with you when you're exposed to it for too long. It's hot, humid and there are all kinds of creepy crawlies in your boots every day.

>mentally scarred / crazy
google ptsd and realize your idiocy is less worse than that.

>be in Vietnam
>go on mission
>people die, come back to camp and go to sleep in comfy tent

>be in WW1
>go on a "mission"
>It's a month later, still the same mission
>you've experienced millions upon millions of shells exploding on top of you
>You're sleeping on a pile of your own shit and piss
>your best friend's body has been rotting next to you for 2 weeks because you can't get his body out of the trench without getting shot
>20 men from your regiment drowned in mud on the way to this trench, another 20 will probably drown in mud on the way out
>you have severe hearing loss, PTSD, are starving, ran out of water two days ago, your friends are trying to drink blood from corpses, you can't take one step through the trench without stepping on a body part
>30 thousand men died in a failed charge last week, this week it's your turn to go up and over
>your officer calls you to attention and instructs you that you will charge in 10 minutes just about 100 paces behind an advancing wall of explosions that will cover your advance. Sure hope nobody misfires and shoots us on accident
>you sit there and think about your family before going over the trench and into inevitable death. It's winter 1914. The war has just begun

how can you judge if you weren't there?

You have to understand that nations didnt just sit troops there for 4 years, battalions and the like were cycled in and out of the trenches.

Going back in was pure hell tho and it also played a part in a soldiers psyche that a week ago they were sitting in a comfy French cafe reading the newspaper, and that cafe is still untouched less than 50 miles away and youre in a trench

Reading diaries. Learning the facts. Comparing statistics, comparing the experience.

I'd take Vietnam over WW1 any fucking day of the week.

They were cycled but not for like a month at least. They stayed in those trenches for weeks before being relieved, that's the worst few weeks of your life, and then to have to go back next month? Hell.

>He thinks WW1 was entirely trench warfare

It was at first. Wasn't until late 1916 onward that they started experimenting with stormtrooper tactics.

Never said a month hermano, you want to fight?

>vietnam war movie
>getting popcorn
>it aint butter starts playing

>Americans invade a country for selfish reasons
>they make a film about how heroic Americans soldiers were and how much they suffered in war

every time

And I never implied that troops weren't cycled. Maybe I do want to fight, puto

That post doesn't imply that. In winter 1914 it was all trench warefare.

Irish people in the early 1900s were practically eating rats for dinner

Different to happy go lucky 50s Richie Cunningham types going to shit covered lands in Nam in the 60s

no one learns about wears from video games. No one is that dumb outside of Cred Forums.

WW1 shattered every expectation of warefare men had built up from thousands of years of conflict. It brought Victorian era fags in frilly stockings and white wigs wearing colorful uniforms into the grimdark WW1 trenches. It brought mounted cavalry units into the sights of heavy machine guns. It took the concept of an "honorable" "justified" war and raped it in the mouth. It was the biggest shift in tactics and casualty numbers in human history, and the people caught in the middle of that were the most unfortunate souls to ever walk the earth. You can make that argument with any conflict by pointing to the lowest person at the time and saying it wasn't much of a lifestyle leap. At least eating rats in the ghetto is better than eating rats in a trench under shell fire. By the 60s, modern warefare wasn't new anymore, people were used to the idea of millions of dead people. The world had just been through two world wars. It's less of a culture shock than WW1, nothing really compares.

I'd imagine it was also pretty bad shooting at other Europeans. Not to make this a race argument, but it's a lot easier to dehumanize Communist Vietnamese soldiers than it is with a guy who quite possibly lived only 100km away from you.

I'm talking out of my ass here, but I feel like after WW2 (and maybe WW1 by extension) that soldiers had some respect for their enemies. You hear those stories about fighter pilots opposing each other becoming friends after the war. That shit didn't happen in Vietnam.

Ugh, I've been spelling warfare wrong for like 5 posts. Please ignore my poor spelling.

>no one is that dumb
You misunderstand normies user

>Somehow, against all odds, you survive the fucking horror of WW1
>You literally couldn't care less who won you're just going home. Finally.
>Miraculously your entire family survived as well.
>Spanish flu kicks in.
>Everyone you know and love dies just months after you reunite with them
It's like a fucking Greek tragedy, Jesus Christ.

What will the next war culture shock be?

except historians agree warfare took a considerable change with WW1 and became much more horrific, to the point where people who previously "enjoyed" warfare and fighting could only be sick by it.

Space battles. Ordinary grunts won't cut it anymore. You'll need crews featuring a range scientists and tactical experts to deal with complicated gravitational/orbital mechanics, like n-body problems.

Small mistakes will wipe out thousands of people in the blink of an eye.

>the public perception
Children and teenagers are not what I would call the public perception

Vietnam Vets Meet a Former Enemy
youtube.com/watch?v=-xjCliYHTnA

None. War is impossible with the proliferation of nuclear weapons, and frankly its causing bloat and fucking with the cycle of things. It used to be dying empires fucking died. A shithole like North Korea would be gone by now. Nations can't die anymore if they have even a single nuke, or have friends that do. Just can't happen.

On the other hand, if we ever actually make it into space, which we probably never will, and find hospitable planets the first thing that would happen is the powerful would jump ship from Earth and nukes would fly immediately after hundred or thousands of years of pent up non conflicts - assuming we aren't just one big ungodly mega nation with no identity or culture by then. So there is a least a little hope for sweet sweet death

The point is you can easily spin WW2 to be :us against the bad guys" narrative. Vietnam is much harder.

I know its a bit overused and exaggerated by media as usual, but jungle warfare is really a perfect place for insanity aside from the pitch black hell of WW1.

If the USA wants a point of comparison look at the Portuguese colonial war, google by Ultramar war and its effects on veterans are pretty similar with many of them completely scarred forever.

And it ended European incredible wealth and power\influence forever relegating it to the US in a simple and quite direct transfer. Hitler had one job and failed miserable by starting the second conflict, but maybe the shift of leadership to the US was for the best, Europe could never agree on anything.

Empires rarely died quick anyway, they lingered on for centuries. You could argue that the Roman Empire only really fell in 1450 to the Turks. Also, North Korea isn't around because it has a nuke. It's around because it benefits China politically and militarily.

>the first thing that would happen is the powerful would jump ship from Earth and nukes would fly immediately
I doubt it. Most developed nations aren't itching to start a conflict at the drop of a hat. It's economically and socially much easier to be relaxed and moral. That's why there aren't wars between any super powers these days, at least not directly. We're all so interlinked with each other economically that were the US and China to fight the entire world would feel the strain.

Nope its going to be automated weapon systems first.

Space warfare will be fun to see how it will develop however, shit will be insane, probably big artillery engagements over stupid ass distances.

>forever relegating it to the US
He says as the US continues to decline into a third world shit hole.

>We're all so interlinked with each other economically that were the US and China to fight the entire world would feel the strain.

Those were famous last words by some people before the outbreak of WW1. Nobody was ready for what came.

But that will take time.

>OP doesnt understand that movies about uninteresting/normal people/things dont get made

>probably big artillery engagements over stupid ass distances.
There's this game called Children of a Dead Earth that simulates it pretty well. The use of orbital mechanics is major. If you can intercept an enemy at a high enough speed, they have at most a couple of seconds before you or your probes/nukes/whatever cover thousands of kilometers and fuck their shit.

Seeing hundreds of nukes barreling towards your craft at an inescapable speed sounds terrifying as fuck.

>that wasn't me, that did that

Aside from the massive disrespect of considering warfare a casual event. Why the fuck is social media now enforced at schools? If students use twitter or Instagram, fine, but don't foist it and its degenerate culture upon them. Jesus Christ.

Dont worry user thats fake.

You forget the part where WW1 veterans were even a bigger problem in Europe than Vietnam veterans ever were

Well the difference in casualties alone is fucking staggering. 38 fucking million.

>war involving all the major powers of the world and some other extras has more casualties than a conflict between a super power and a tiny nation
Shocking

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>War is impossible with the proliferation of nuclear weapons
They said the same thing about modern warships back in 1914 or so, and look what they got

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>read the thread
>check the board again
Jesus fuck, is this real life

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>a good informative thread after a retarded OP
history was made

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This thread is giving me flashbacks to Blackadder ending.

Fuck that.

it's called shellshock, the mind breaking under stress

youtube.com/watch?v=vd2t55kuyiU

see that tree? its a VC
see that grass? its a VC
see that bush? its a VC
see that hill? its a VC
see that hole? its a VC
see that rice paddie? its a VC
see that mountain? its a VC
see that snake? its a VC

unlike the spanish inquisition you just expect VC

you can have all the helis, napalm, agent orange, hovercraft, etc you want. mother fuckers will still pop out no where. we had miles of tunnels like rats. we hauled artillery up through mountain jungles, bare foot, over night. so you think its a holiday? we work on holidays mother fuckers.

we kicked out the chinks, baguettes, and the burgers. were the nicest mother fuckers but do not fuck with our homeland. we will rip it out of your cold dead hands every time.

Asymmetric warfare in which one side utilizes robotic soldiers.

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>It ain't me

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>on accident

kill yourself fuck

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The idea that there were people who said WW1 couldn't happen due to economic interdependence is a myth. What they said was that "war would be futile".

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wait...is that hitler?

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Quality bait

They had morphine and got soldiers disease. Vietnam vets avoided morphine addiction and stuck to weed

Most the guerillas in South Vietnam were actually very well trained and well equipped by the Russians. They used guerilla tactics but this doesnt mean they were primitive or underdogs as American films like Apocalypse Now depict them as.

I read somewhere that medival dudes had ptsd too.

That's true, but you can't have ptsd if you are dead.

man, why is it shit like this and stories about the christmas truce that make me a sobbing mess

>christmas truce
>insubordination and fraternising with the enemy is a good thing

vietnam

WWI is where shell shocked comes from, where PTSD was explained as concussions caused by shelling.

I dont get your point.

Found the trench officer

Cred Forums related

youtube.com/watch?v=vH3-Gt7mgyM

>honorary combat where you personally take on your opponent face to face in mutual hatred and respect, testing your skills and fighting for king and country.
>roaming desert/jungle shit holes for weeks at a time until you or your buddy turn into paste with no warning as savages with boom sticks and explosives who fuck camels/kids all day get equal footing in killing you despite being stupider, less advanced, and less evolved than you

>>honorary combat where you personally take on your opponent face to face in mutual hatred and respect,
You think it was actually like this?

Catchy song m8.

My grandpa was in 'Nam in 1969-1970 and he said it was horrible. But he also had a lot of fun.
I got a gook rifle out of it because you were allowed to loot bodies back then

>grandfather in nam
How old are you?

20

You should get underage ban.

Why?

Did your grandpa invent the "It ain't me" meme?

Because you are thinking he must be old because his grandfather was in nam. Or maybe i misunderstood.

Nope. I thought his grandfather must be young since mine was in WW2 and would have been too old to serve in vietnam.

Ok, that makes sense. If vietnam war started 1965 and his grandfather was 19 when he joined he would be 70. Dad 45 and he then 20.

it really bothers me that this gif is like three frames if you look at the rain drops.

IT AIN'T ME

USA losing.