Did she do anything wrong?

She wouldn't count Chiefs vote so the boys could watch the World Series.

Smug cunt. He should'ev killed her when he had the chance. This might be one of my most hated characters.

Also, OP, thanks for reminding me that I need to watch it again.

She's a well written version of this bitch.

her entire thing was about emasculating and controlling the patients, not getting them better but just keeping them there, although i've only read the book and not seen the film

It's the same in the film. Is the book worth reading?

Her manipulation is made more clear in the book. The movie makes her almost sympathetic.

This.

She is directly responsible for a suicide in the book.

He was a career criminal who was convicted of raping an underage girl and played the insanity card to beat felon time. Over the course of the movie he commits several more felonies while in the ward.

yeah it definitely is, not very long or a hard read and is a lot more subdued then the movie from what i saw

I'll give it a read then, once I'm done with Lovecraft that is.

And that justifies a lobotomy?

maybe I'll give the movie another shot, i watched until he stole the bus and kinda lost interest from that

I read the book first and thought the movie was pretty spot. I was upset though that they took out a lot of interactions with the ward doctor. Specifically him being on the fishing trip. Revealing that he too was afraid of nurse Ratched.

thats incorrect according to wiki

>who faked insanity to serve his sentence for battery and gambling in the hospital rather than in prison.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Flew_Over_the_Cuckoo's_Nest_(novel)

Why do people drop films? I get it, if you're watching abominations like DB: Evolution, The Room or whatever is shit to the core, but a movie such as One Flew Over Cuckoo's that is actually worth watching. Why?

>retards actually think this

Brad Dourif's character temporarily overcame his stutter because of the self-esteem boost, yes. But you're naive to think that it's a longterm solution or even that it didn't damage him in the long run. Or do you think psychiatrists tell patients to go pound booze and drugs and fuck whores to fix self-esteem problems?

No, Randle didn't give two fucks about Billy's recovery. He just wanted to party and had Billy join in too because in his criminal-addled brain "some booze and pussy ought to fix this kid."

When Nurse Ratchett pointed out the reality of the situation, and the fact that she was legally required to inform his mother, Randle attacked and attempted to murder her. That's not her bullying on any level.

cause I'd already read the book and it got up to a scene where he steals the bus and it was just so ridiculous compared to the book that I couldnt stand it

We're talking about the movie, not the book.

The faking insanity to get away with rape? No. The drugging of mental patients? Nah. Assault of orderlies? Probably not. Kidnapping? Getting warmer.

Attempted murder? Yeah, at about that point.

>she was legally required to inform his mother

No she fucking isn't.

Did you not seen the sadism in here eyes? She took pleasure in watching him squirm when she threatened to tell his mother.

>rape

How exactly did he "rape" anyone

That's reasonable then.

Yes, she fucking is. Why would you think she wasn't?

Not really. She might have been a little cold, but in the end she was only doing her job.

She kept patients that could have been a danger to others and themselves safe and on the path to rehabilitation. Mac's antics are what destroyed the sanctuary she kept for her patients, and what eventually led to Billy's suicide, and Chesswick's in the book.

The only reason people see her as a villain is because she's framed as such in the anti-authoritarian drug-addled mind of the author, and because Mac's character is more charismatic and endearing, which leads people to ignore the fact that he's a complete scumbag.

That's what he was in prison for, user. Raping an underaged girl.

That's the beauty of the character. She's not a good person, she's sadistic and cruel, but she never ACTUALLY does anything wrong; in her capacity as a nurse she renders judgment and maintains order in a way that's pretty consistent with how we actually have to treat mental patients, lest they become unruly or develop unsavory habits. The fact that we can hate her so much and think she's so evil just for doing her job shows how broken the system is to begin with.

Why would she be? There a law that says she has to report everytime her patients get some pussy?

Why would you think she is?
He is there willingly
not by someones else order because of guardianship
explain why you think she is required to tell?

yeah it's true that he was using them as well, but he wasn't doing so to deliberately hurt them, he was doing it to set them free in his mind, whilst the nurse did not want to improve the patients and instead wanted to manipulate them through their insecurities in order to stay docile

Because the only time she can legally report it is when the issue of guardianship has been established. And given the lead-ins throughout the movie, it's heavily implied that his overbearing mother has guardianship of him.

Or did you think that the authoritarian rules-Nazi was announcing that she was going to break the rules in a single moment of being purely out of character, even though she was capable before, after and during of using the rules to exact what she wanted?

are you sure about that

>Yes.

> it's heavily implied that his overbearing mother has guardianship of him.

actually no
its only established that he has mother issues, there was nothing about someone else deciding for him

And yes, the nazi nurse would break the rules of not informing on patients to get her way and keep herself in control
its only telling his mother what he did, it would be absolutely aligned with her view of the world

Did you even watch the movie?

>Well, you've had 5 prior arrests for assault.
fights, huh? Rocky Marciano's got 40 and he's a millionaire!
>That's true.
>> That is true.
>Of course, it's true that you went in for statutory rape. That's true, is it not, this time?
>>Absolutely true. But, Doc... She was fifteen years old, going on thirty-five, Doc, and she told me she was eighteen, she was very willing, I practically had to take to sewing my pants shut. Between you and me, uh, she might have been fifteen, but when you get that little red beaver right up there in front of you, I don't think it's crazy at all and I don't think you do either. No man alive could resist that, and that's why I got into jail to begin with. And now they're telling me I'm crazy over here because I don't sit there like a goddamn vegetable. Don't make a bit of sense to me. If that's what being crazy is, then I'm senseless, out of it, gone-down-the-road, wacko. But no more, no less, that's it.

We can't really tell though, that's the point. We know surprisingly little about Nurse Ratched, certainly not enough to know her motivations. She's pretty much stoic all throughout the movie.

The only reason we project those intentions on her is because our window into the story is either Mac (in the movie) or Bromden (in the book), and both already see her that way. Mac because he's a scammer frustrated by the fact that he didn't anticipate that a mental ward might be worse than prison, and Bromden because he's a paranoid schizophrenic.

Right, so your problem with the Nurse is that she's super authoritarian except this one instance where, if you're right because the movie doesn't explicitly tell you that the Billy's mother has guardianship and only implies it, she decides to be completely against the rules in total defiance of her character and not a single person acknowledges it or comments on it ever?

was that meeting where the nurse brings up insecurities of the patients as a group in the movie? if so, then it is pretty clear she is not interested in their recovery

Yes, but it was Randle that fucked it up. Billy was sharing in group therapy about the first time he'd tried to commit suicide over a woman he proposed to that rejected him. Ratched was actually looking a little nice while she was gently trying to coax more from him. Randle jumped in with his whole "IF HE DOSENT WANT 2 SHAER Y U MAEK HIM!? I NO, LETS ALL GO SEE BAESBALL GAEM!" Billy shut down and everyone was thrown out of the mindset for the meeting and wanted to go out and see a game, something she obviously couldn't let them do.

I believe it is, we see Harding talk about his at least.

Also, that's arguable. Coming to face with your insecurities isn't necessarily a bad thing.

authoritarian does not mean following rules, just demanding that your rules be followed
and theres not hint of his mother having legal guardianship over him, no matter how many times you say that it is implied.

...

read the book
story is told by the chief

Is this true?!!

She knew that mentioning his mother upset/triggered him. She was his nurse for however long he was in there.
Telling him that she would have to call his mother was very much a pointed threat designed to subdue him.

...

So, we have two possibilities here then.

1) The mother has some legal ability to discuss his therapy whether Guardianship or otherwise, as Ratched brings up multiple times throughout the movie sharing Billy's sessions with her to which no one is surprised or acts as though it were out of place.

2) The mother DOESN'T have some legal ability to discuss his therapy whether Guardianship or otherwise, and despite this, Nurse Ratched brings up the fact that it's shared in front of orderlies and other staff constantly and despite it being wildly illegal, not even the other inmates or even Randle inexplicably care to comment on it except at the very end of the movie when Billy's panicking.

Now, I realize you need to be handwalked through every facet of a movie, and the fact that they didn't include a scene where Ratched was on the phone dropping pointless exposition:

>yes Ms. Bibbit, we received the forms that have you as his guardian. sorry that we lost them, i know we've been in session together for years and already knew you were his guardian. but we just needed the paperwork on file.

And having lacked it being spelled so explicitly out for you, were otherwise incapable of inferring anything on your own, but damn. How deep into the spectrum are you?

that is what i like about this movie/book
There are no black and white characters

Or she could have simply wanted to let him know that she had to call his mother about that, seeing as it was protocol, which makes several assumptions less than assuming she was being malicious.

Yes, her mentioning the consequences would have an effect on him. That's kind of the point. In the past couple of weeks he'd been party to grand theft, racketeering, kidnapping, solicitation and possession of a controlled substance. As "happy" as Billy was to be fucking whores and living the criminal lifestyle with Randle, he needed that splash of reality.

Randle isn't there to help him. Randle doesn't give two fucks about Billy, he doesn't care about people getting better, he's concerned with his good time.

quick glance at that nonsense...

you have to understand that mother is like the cigaretets

is the nurse Ratched required by some rule to give cigarettes freely or to ration them, or use them as reward?

Same goes with the mother, she can tell or can not, this is fucking 1962 you tard.
She is absolutely not legally obliged to tell that an adult man had sex with a girl in the ward. She is also not legally obliged to tell him that she will tell her.

You really are a thick one.

rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-one-flew-over-the-cuckoos-nest-1975

She definitely reminds me of Mistress T. Might be what you guys would like.

>physician-patient privilege was invented after the 1960's

Literally kys my man.

>is the nurse Ratched required by some rule to give cigarettes freely or to ration them, or use them as reward?
She was forced to ration them after Randle started stealing them from the other inmates. What a great idea too, messing with the nicotine levels of a bunch of mental patients. Surely he took that into consideration when he was gaming them away from everyone, right? It was the Nurse who was in the wrong by rationing them to make sure everyone besides Randle still got some, right?

You're making the assumption that she has Retard's disease, and can't remember what her patients' triggers are.
There are other ways to invoke consequences without involving his mother. Threaten him with police, law, detention.
>Randle isn't there to help him
I'm not saying that he is. But he's not actively trying to cut down everyone around him like Ratchet

Police, law and detention would've been a lie. Ratched hadn't lied to any of her patients ever up to that point in the movie. His mother was the key to sobering him up and stop idolizing the criminal behavior of Randle.

And you're wrong, Randle was cutting everyone down from the start. See, the problem is that Randle was perfectly healthy and surrounded by people that needed help. But he's so selfish, he can't conceive of it. When Billy is having a breakthrough in group therapy, he's bored and takes over the whole session and makes it a power play about usurping her authority - which is hugely important for psychotherapy to work - and made it about baseball.

When he kidnapped them to "show them a good time", he didn't care how it would affect their mental problems. Fuck, he didn't know what half of them had. He wanted a good time, and they were going to ensure he had one. It's not like he had to deal with whatever mental fallout occurred.

Just like with Billy. Sooner or later, Billy's mother was going to find out about the booze, drugs and whores. Billy killed himself over it. Randle didn't care about that possibility when he was pressuring Billy into it. It fell on Ratched to have to be that "bad guy" and bring Billy back to reality because Randle just doesn't care.

>physician-patient privilege was invented after the 1960's
are you saying that as a fact or mockingly?
I am not sure
but without your aspie you would realize that its imporatance in 60s was at different level than now, especially with family members

>cigarettes
nigger stop trying to go in to some different direction
I used that as example of her doing as she pleases, same as with telling mother
now go get life loser, or I am telling your mother

she's a ball clipper and is analogous to modern-day feminism in it's attempts to destroy so called "toxic masculinity." so it depends on whether or not you see this as a good thing or not

Either you're arguing that she had no right to tell the mother or that she did. Which is it?

>I used that as example of her doing as she pleases
Except she wasn't doing as she pleases. She had to get the cigarettes to the patients. Before Randle started stealing them, she just let them have what they wanted. After he was stealing them and people were going into withdrawls from no nicotine, she was FORCED to ration them and make sure everyone was getting them. She didn't want to, it wasn't a power play, it was because he forced her into it.

>Either you're arguing that she had no right to tell the mother or that she did. Which is it?
you are arguing she was compelled by law to tell, you forgot?

It's more that he's a BLM dindu and she's any given cop just trying to do her job.

I was arguing that she was allowed to tell his mother. You dug your heels in that she wasn't until I pointed out she'd mentioned sharing details numerous times throughout the movie, then you moved the goalposts with "well, that's just how things were done in the 60s lol".

>Police, law and detention would've been a lie.
Why?
>Billy's mother was going to find out about the booze, drugs and whores.
This is not true.
Billy clearly came from a strict, domineering mother who probably abused him. What Randle showed Billy, albeit inconsequentially, was that he could disobey whatever rules his mother had set and turn out more or less okay. Randle was breaking Billy's learned helplessness.

Stat rape and rape are very different. You know this. Caspere knew this

except here>and the fact that she was legally required to inform his mother

nah thats a statist cuck view

Which might be why in the beginning of that conversation thread I said: >He was a career criminal who was convicted of raping an underage girl

If you want to be a faggoty mobile poster and skip the thread to the end, that's on you.

>Why?
Because they're mental patients and by definition not mentally competent? It's the whole premise of the movie, remember? Randle's pretending to be crazy so police, law and detention are off the table for him?

>Billy clearly came from a strict, domineering mother who probably abused him.
Where did you get this? Outside Billy's concern of disappointing her, it never makes an implication one way or the other about her. If anything, it seemed like the movie was painting more of an Oedipal view with him being too attached to her.

And Randle isn't a therapist. He didn't bring the whores and booze to "fix Billy", he brought them because he wanted them. Ratched had been working with Billy for years, it's even implied she knew him outside her role as a therapist too. Randle doesn't know Billy from anyone else and is either incapable of seeing or just too callous to care that Billy genuinely needs mental help. His problems run deeper than "go get laid by a hooker lol that'll fix your decades of self-esteem and suicidal tendencies!"

Only degenerate libertarian druggies would agree with MacMurphy about Ratched, to be honest.

>libertarian
>degenerate
>superior way of life
pick two friend, and then go pick up your food stamps

Fine, legally permitted*

But solid job taking that line entirely out of context of the conversation.

Raping an under age girl is different to statatory rape though

I pick "libertarian" and "degenerate."

...no it's not. Statutory rape is literally sexual intercourse with a minor. If you fuck a girl who's 15 in an 18 consent state, you get charged with statutory rape.

Dubs wasted on this retarded comment. There truly is no justice.

She told that poor guy she was gonna tell his mommy he was a bad boy and lose GBP and it made him kill himself

wrong choice, fbi agents will be picking you up soon to be treated for your obvious mental ilness

Perhaps someone would've been there to intervene and save his life in Randle didn't try to murder a nurse.

>strict, domineering mother who probably abused him.
>Oedipal view with him being too attached to her.
These are not mutually exclusive.
>Ratched had been working with Billy for years
And we don't know whether her work has actually helped him or not.
>"go get laid by a hooker lol that'll fix your decades of self-esteem and suicidal tendencies!"
Not at all what I'm saying. I said that breaking rules set by your parents, ala teenage rebellion, is essential for personal development.
If Billy builds his world around winning his mother's approval, there is absolutely no chance he will be able to survive on his own.

a life without tendies aint a life worth living

I wish teenagers weren't allowed to have an opinion on politics so the worldwide libertarian population would instantly vanish.

You've got your order of events wrong

Dude Jack nicholson was the craziest fucker in that whole building

ALso how is that big indian supposed to escape? Its not like he can hide or melt in if his face would come up on the news

if you rape a girl who is underaged, you get charged for rape. if you have sex with a girl who is underaged, you get charged for stat rape.

whats so hard to understand

>These are not mutually exclusive.
Yes, but while Billy's attachment was shown and played up, there was never a reference or even implication of abuse or hostility from his mother.

>And we don't know whether her work has actually helped him or not.
So? Do we have to be explicitly shown the progress he's made or else we automatically excuse a multiple felon interrupting his sessions and making him an accessory in numerous crimes?
>Not at all what I'm saying. I said that breaking rules set by your parents, ala teenage rebellion, is essential for personal development.
You don't know that that has any meaning for Billy though. You're taking the outsider's perspective and given as much information as Randle has; which is to say, virtually nothing. Ratched is a decorated and well-respected nurse who up until Randle's involvement clearly had rapport and progress with Billy.

You can't honestly be advocating Randle's "i just met u, but how about sex and drugs, that shuld fix u!" approach, are you? How wildly irresponsible would any therapist have to be?

She was clearly sadistic. You must be a piece of shit who will die alone if you think it was normal behavior.

oh boy that pic is so right we should control the people, im so glad that the governments regulations have helped to stop the hegemony of pharma companies...oh wait...well at least they make laws that benefit the average consumer...oh wait...yeah special interest groups actually control that. Keep supporting the big government tho cuck, without them we'd be getting fucked over by big companies...oh wait, yeah

No, you fucking autist. There is no "sex", it's always considered rape. That's what the statutory part means. Under the age of consent literally means that. You are not old enough to grant consent and therefore all sex had with an adult was consentless. IE: rape.

How the fuck can you not know that?

in the book they weren't actually kept their against their will by force

Yeah, let's get rid of them ebil gubmints and let the corporations take over! They'll save us, won't they?

Watching this movie as a teenager with my alcoholic dad whose father committed suicide after a botched lobotomy was a mistake.

kek these pics are good keep posting more, but in reality the corporations already have taken over, just look at the revolving door of congress, do you really feel like your vote is that meaningful nowadays?

I'm not even a libertarian but that pic is silly and seems like it was written by a person who took an introductory micro course and didn't really get it. Those assumptions are all intentionally unrealistic, the point is not to say "this is exactly what the world is like" but to show what the effects of fundamental forces like competition are while controlling for all the other stuff that happens in the real world. Basically the entirety of the rest of the time you will spend studying economics focuses on reasons why those assumptions don't hold in reality and how they can be dealt with (which , surprise, often involves the government). So 'refuting' assumptions which literally zero economists consider to be reflective of reality is nearly as pointless as being a libertarian who does think they hold in reality.

Local? Absolutely. I'm quite certain that the people I've talked to locally will also be voting against Measure 97.

>Brad Dourif's character

Here's another Brad Dourif character.

So, that was a long round about way of saying that government regulation will fix the free market?

>You can't honestly be advocating Randle's "i just met u, but how about sex and drugs, that shuld fix u!" approach, are you?
No. There is a middle ground, but it's closer to Randle than Rached. Billy clearly needs to stop having his life revolve around his mother's approval. Nurse Rached plays directly into his fear of disappointing her. That is not constructive.

you wait til the corporations lean on em a bit man you'll be seeing so many yes's and so man "measure's" your head'll spin so fast you're gonna need some of that obama"care"

charges for rape and statutory rape are different friend

...there's not much to being a libertarian outside memes and buzzwords, is there?

Who said they weren't? You were trying to claim that consensual sex with a minor isn't rape, and it still is.

no, i said that stat rape is different than rape. you were saying that nicholson was in the ward because he raped somebody, when in reality he just committed stat rape.

...there's not much to being free outside libertarianism and libertarianism, is there?

I said stat rape first and a dozen more times in the thread, even quoting the lines from the film where it said stat rape. You autistically picking one time when I did write out statutory doesn't make it any less true. It just makes you a smegma sore on the rancid tip of Cred Forums's foreskin.

whoah take it easy man

...

If your stutter comes back because someone mentions your mother, guess what? Your stutter wasn't gone in the first place.

Absolutely, yes. Contrary to what makes you feel comfortabe, electroshock therapy (Which is what actually happened to Jack Nicholson, not a lobotomy) is incredibly effective at treating, if not flat out curing personality and emotional disorders.

can't really blame him, at that point the movie it seems like it's going in a completely retarded direction

This. Electroshock is staggeringly effective and safe, but Hollywood has done such a good job demonizing it that people think its some barbaric middle ages practice.

She's clearly being vindictive when she threatens billy. This shows her own pride is more important than billys recovery. This is inexcusable when in her position.

Again user, if the mere mention of your moher triggers a relapse, you were not cured. Billy wasn't fit to be out in society. Imagine what would have happened if he were in Starbucks and briefely overheard someone talking to their mum on the phone.

Where did I say he was cured? Clearly he wasn't ready to integrate with society, but he had made some slight progress

You heavily implied it here:

All I know is she was weirdly cute

that nigga was practically braindead after the lobotomy in the book

i dont think it was effective back in the 60's tho m8s

Are people actually arguing on the validity of how immoral the nurse was?

You guys are fucking DUMB.

Did not mean it that way.

he mentions in the book that no one comes looking after runaways because in most cases they return of their own will.

plus if i recall he was one of the guys who voluntarily entered the sanitarium not one of the committed guys

I liked the movie more and thought it was more subtle. The fact the Nurse's status as a villain in the film is debatable is more or less proof of that. I don't need distorted visions of a big nurse dwarfing the giant Indian to see Ratched's corruption.

well i havent watched all of the movie but i watched until he stole the bus,thats where i thought it was less subtle and kinda silly

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest is my favorite movie but I'm not very fond of that scene. I think Milos Foreman said that was the film's only flaw.

Underrated post. I think it forces us to ask ourselves if certain personalities should be kept out of certain professions even if they never do anything wrong per se.

True. The morality of The Nurse is irrelevant because The Nurse is a constant. She is the face of the asylum and mental healcare, but she's also so much more. She IS healthcare, she IS government, she is GOD.

Who can say that the government or God is unfair or immoral? They are the ones that set the standards for (legality/) morality. The important thing is the fight against such limited morality, as is represented by Nicholson's character.

He struggles against the asylum's system, against morality and legality, trying to teach others to thin critically, to challenge the Dogma we see every single day, as he teaches the other inmates to challenge the "nurse's" authority. He takes the others (us) for a trip, he leads rebellions against the system, he takes what little we are given by those above (cigarettes) and uses it for his own benefit. And he wins, and he wins and he wins.

Until he doesn't. For challenging the authority and the set-in-stone morality that has been presented since the end of time, what happens? He's tortured. He's mutilated. He's left as a shell of himself and excommunicated. We never earn the fate of the other inmates, nor the fate of The Nurse.

This is what we learn from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. That to rebel is to be strong and virtuous, but is also an action of self-sacrifice, for we all know deep down that we will be crushed. But it is an action that may light a spark that could become a raging fire, topple systems, or kill gods, as in the myths of ld. Or it could die, a hot and fierce death, but lonely and dead nonetheless.
Thank you, user. I see now how stupid this thread premise was.

i'll give it another watch then, i thought that scene was a sign of things to come

What's wrong with it? Is the "fight the power" theme of the film too in-your-face during that scene?

Ruins the allusion of isolation.