Why didn't Sauron just surround the crater of the volcano with thousands of his orks?

Why didn't Sauron just surround the crater of the volcano with thousands of his orks?

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cause you'd still be able to fly there with eagles you fucking retard

Why didn't sauron just wear the ring on his toe?

The eagles would've been visible for miles, they'd be sitting ducks. Also something about the eagles not wanting to take sides or some shit.

No one?

Sauron threw literally everything at the Black Gate because he thought Aragorn had the Ring. He thought Aragorn the Ring because Aragorn picked up the palantir and said "1v1 me Faget" to Sauron, which no sane person would do.

NEXT

He couldn't spare ten orks to guard the entrance? Hell, two would've been enough.

No he had none to spare.
>why don't I post some guards at the volcano in case two hobbits get past literally everything else

bullshit

Why would he even care? He was basically 100% sure that the folks at the black gate, you know the huge alliance army that hadn't tried anything so bold in ages led by an actual Ubermensch shouting that he was a bitch, had the Ring. Why bother leaving anything behind? The Ring was at his gate, he just had to go get it.

Read this, GRRM, and weep tears of dispair.

Yeah. Gollum literally saves the world.

If getting my homework copied would literally kill me then you damn well bet I would lock it up. Probably sleep on it, too. What a terrible analogy.

>Orks

OIIIIIIIIII YA GITTTT I SEE YA

He slipped and fell

Dunno what Tolkein was on when he made that idea

You are most likely in a house with breakable windows right now, anyone could break in and murder you.

Except most people haven't enslaved half the world, with the other half vying for revenge.
The fact that he left mount doom unguarded is a plot hole, deal with it.

It isn't, the odds of someone from the west crossing Mordor unseen just to destroy the ring are on the same levels as someone going crazy and murdering you for no reason. You live day to day without giving that possibility much thought. You know how unlikely it is.

Remember when frodo tells him there isn't a promise he could make that he could believe, then Gollum says he will swear on the precious. Frodo warns him that the ring is treacherous and will twist his word against him?

Gollum swears to keep frodo safe and not try to take the ring. When he later breaks his word (which is kind of a big deal in middle earth) by trying to take the ring from frodo he falls into the lava.

Basically the ring plays itself.

>huge army of guarding main entrance to his land
>giant spider and orc manned tower guarding secret entrance
>user thinks he should also station troops at mount doom too

The Nazigul are Mordors Eagle defence system

Therefore I should make absolutely no effort to protect myself, even if doing so would take all the effort of locking a door.

Sitting ducks for what?
Did Sauron invent MANPADS?

>You live day to day without giving that possibility much thought.

And yet I still lock my door every night because I'm not retarded and I know it makes sense to expend a minimum of effort to prevent a minimal risk.

>The fact that he left mount doom unguarded is a plot hole, deal with it.
Its almost like Sauron's pride was his undoing, or some junk.

Think of it more like this, he had created a superweapon toed to his life force. But the superweapon is so powerful and the lure of its power was so immense and integral to its function, that Sauron believed that in itself was a safeguard against it being destroyed. In fact it's not a completely unfounded way to think. Isildur, who was basically a super just and pure hearted dude, was so instantly corrupted that he walked straight into the crack of doom and still couldn't throw it away. And this was at a time that Sauron was completely defeated too. Further, since Isildur, men, elves, and dwarves had all declined a shit load. Sauron had in fact been fighting a long war with Gondor for some time when the War of the Ring came about and had seen their corruption. So why would he assume that Men and fucking Hobbits would be able to resist the Rings pull? And here's the real evidence that he had no reason to assume it: he was right. They weren't even able to destroy the ring on purpose, but the mercy of Bilbo and Frodo, the Wisdom of Gandalf, and the Courage of the Men of the West paid off.

Fellbeasts didn't appear to have anywhere near the speed and agility those eagles had.
Given that they were reptilian, I doubt they'd even match the eagle's maximum altitude.

Considering he failed because of exactly that, yes, sparing literally one soldier to watch the gate would be prudent. Probably would have been more effective than the spider, even.

They flew faster than the wind user.

hubris

I'll take your word for it, thinking back to the movies the Eagles were pretty yuge

You're forgetting that the only reason Sheldon didn't work as a defense is because she ran into Samwise "the Destroyer" Gamgee, who was essentially a Greek Hero at that point

>he failed therefore he was wrong

Why do simple minded fools think like this?
You can plan for every conceivable eventuality and things can still go wrong, that's life.
The concept that a tiny force could get past a giant spider and a tower full of orcs without alerting Sauron to their presence was too ridiculous for him to even consider.

>Sheldon
Fucking Shelob, sorry folks.

Zimbabwe

OP utterly BTFO. Not that I mind having these threads but the plot hole fags are firmly proven wrong each and every time.

We should also bear in mind Sauron's reserve forces were deployed in the battle of Gondor and the Fellowship fought outside Mordor as a form of distraction

Because of the movies, people have the idea that eagles are enormous and strong and all that, but really they are basically horses with wings, you could fit 2 people on there perhaps, but not comfortably.

The felbeasts, on the other hand, are basically descending from the hundreds of monsters Melkor created during the Night of Arda (watcher in the water is likely one of those things), out of the peaceful, herbivore animals Yavanna had created. Later, Glaurung was first bred from the same pool of twisted, destructive beasts.
>A creature of an older world maybe it was, whose kind, lingering in forgotten mountains cold beneath the Moon, outstayed their day, and in hideous eyrie bred this last untimely brood, apt to evil. And the Dark Lord took it, and nursed it with fell meats, until it grew beyond the measure of all other things that fly; and he gave it to his servant to be his steed.

Also, Smaug was way too big in the movies, too. But that's another matter.

Ancalagon is basically the size of a house, fight me faggots

Same reason no nation gives up nukes, even though they could result in mutual destruction. They don't expect anybody else to want to give them up.

>ancalagon only size of a house

>windows cucks will defend this
so glad I replaced all my windows with bricks and chiseled optimal light slits

Are they free bricks?

This.

The logic is clear:

>it's surrounded by mountains in north, south and west
>inhospitable deserts to the east
>mountains are full of Orcs
>mountains are full of giant spiders
>fields immediately surrounding mountain are a massing ground for thousands of Orcs
>tower is within sight of the mountain
>the Ring itself acts like an addictive substance on anybody who holds it
>even in the unlikely event that anybody wants to get rid of it rather than use it as a weapon against me, they have all of the above to contend with
>so, do I place guards at the mountain?
>no

>>so, do I place guards at the mountain?
>Sure, one or two, why not. Got thousands of 'em.

Why didn't Sauron just put a big fucking rock in front of the entrance.

Why didn't Sauron just block the entrance? Or better yet, booby-trap it?

This. You don't get to be a dark lord without being cunning as fuck.

...

>Frodo and Sam fight past them
>"Why didn't Sauron just have 20 guards?"
>Frodo and Sam sneak past them
>Why didn't Sauron have a giant spider and tower of orcs at the entrance
>Didn't work the first time

This never ends user

>watcher in the water is likely one of those things

Nah I'm pretty sure I read The Watcher is one of the nameless horrors in the deep places that swum up through the cracks underneath Moria.

Why do everyone in this fucking thread seems to ignore the fact that Mount Doom is an active volcano?

>muh-why-no-guards-at-the-doors
There is nothing for miles around Mount Doom, what will these people even eat?
Why is there nothing around it? Because it's a fucking active volcano, whatever you build will be ruined in the following weeks. Eruptions are obviously frequent, the color of the sky and the landscape seems a good hint of that.

>fight past them
Hobbits can't fight for shit.
>sneak past them
The entrance was a small door, so not going to happen.
>Why didn't Sauron have a giant spider and tower of orcs at the entrance
No one would say that.

Yes because Sauron was so concerned about the working conditions of his precious orks. What were they going to do if he posted them there? Sue him?

>Hobbits can't fight for shit

Sam defeated multiple orcs and fought off Shelob. Did you even read the book? There's a chapter called The Scouring of the Shire where they defeat Saruman's goons.

It's not so much whether the guards would be effective or not, moreso that the guards weren't even there.

>No one would say that.

I just said that, faggot. Your other points are bollocks, hobbits fight and sneak all the time.

Well, yeah, but all those shit in deep places were created by Melkor in Utumno, in the long period after he destroyed the Lamps, and when the Valar had enough and rage quit Middle-Earth.

See .

If the volcano went extinct would the ring then be idestructible? Would it still be destroyed in the magma chamber beneath Mt Doom?

Maybe it's a magic volcano

I like how you're just ignoring posts like
Really makes the troll a little less effective. Cmon! Apply yourself!

lol fucking Sheldon's Lair

Sauron was as addicted to the Ring as everybody else who touched it. Maybe even more because it was a part of him. So even if he had guards at the mountain, he may have had a moment of desperation and ordered all living things to the Black Gate when he thought the Ring was there and within his grasp.

No they would just wander away when whatever provisions they brought ran out, or wouldn't even reach Mt Doom in the first place. They are fucking orcs, they don't give a shit if there is no immediate source of authority around them. Usually that authority is the other orcs around them.

>Whatever nail sticks out will be hammered down.
- Japan

I know, fucking kill me

Or on his cock

Is ring addiction relatively pleasant like weed or is it more of a heroin/coke physical withdrawal symptoms

This.

I always got the impression they were eldritch/cosmic horrors like Ungoliant that were just there at the dawn of creation but I guess it's never made clear.

Gandalf says "Even Sauron knows them not" and I'd assume he'd be privvy to Melkor's creations. But who knows, could be either.

when was this explained in the movie

>palantir
was this word even used in the movie

Just look at what it did to Gollum. Definitely the latter.

Gollum looks like a typical 600 year old crackhead to me

Technically I don't think Sauron had a cock. Someone wanna do a quick skim of the Silmarillion and report back?

It's pleasant. The more you possess the ring, the more you love to possess it. At some point you love nothing else (Gollum), but if you have the ring who the fuck cares about that.

It even makes you live longer, so your pleasure of possessing the ring lasts longer.

Having the ring is like an eternal orgasm that isn't tiring.

don't take my word for it but I think Mt. Doom is special in a sense that it's fueled by the power of a broken silmaril. Don't remember where I read that, I may be mistaken, but as the other guy said it's basically a magic volcano

Yeah I noticed after posting but couldn't be bothered to CTR, allow me this opportunity to give user the credit for writing it first

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Simillarion lore is too deep for me

It's a metaphor for Tolkien's addiction to cocaine.

>falling for the J.R.R. didn't think of everything meme

When will booklets learn?

Why was Sauron evil

Imagine if it had been completed and had in it all the things Tolkien intended to write. Some things are just not meant to be.

Because Spock could use the sonic screwdriver to do the typical game of thrones cop out

Maybe.. Ungoliant has more agency than just an animal, so she may be a maiar that snuck along with those who chose to enter Arda. They didn't all came at the same time, Tulkas for example came after a little while. At some point I guess you couldn't join anymore, though, and just watch as time unfolds and the vision repeats itself.

But there is in the Silmarillion a passage where it shows clearly that Melkor made plenty of derivations of Yavanna's animals, he added claws and horns and hunger for blood and shit like that, and Utumno was a thing before even elves (or orcs) existed. So Utumno was a fortress filled with thousands of disgusting shit like these, bred in caverns deep beneath. When Utumno was invaded by the Valar, many of those beasts obviously evaded in the underworld.

We're talking about incredibly old shit here, you can't really tell where Utumno was, even in 1st age maps.

Good post senpai

Hm, I see where one could think that, but it sounds like a fan theory. Reason is that when Maeglor (or whatever his name was, don't remember the names of the 7 sons) threw himself in a fiery chasm with the Silmaril, it wasn't near Mount Doom at all. If there is any volcano enchanted by a silmaril, at the time of LOTR, it is deep beneath the sea, hundreds of miles from the west coast.

Melkor told him it'd be fun. He was right.

Morgoth was a dickhead and Sauron was his toady

Yeah, I'm not sure it's actually that way, was just throwing an explanation around as to why that couldn't possibly happen.

Still, works for my headcanon.

Fucking manlets.

The top God in the LOTR universe caused him to slip and fall.

We can't all be Ancalgon.

What wonderful prose.

Never heard that theory, but it's possible, based on the ending of The Silmarillion.

>But the jewel burned the hand of Maedhros in pain unbearable, and he percieved that it was as Eonwe had said, and that his right thereto had become void, and that the oath was in vain. And being in anguish and despair he cast himself into a gaping chasm filled with fire, and so ended; and the Silmaril that he bore was taken into the bosom of the Earth.

>mfw even though I love LOTR I don't mind GRRM's prose that much

He was a maiar obsessed with order and Melkor promised to bring order to Middle Earth through subjugation.

this

Sauron never even considered that somebody would try to destroy it. The thought never crossed his mind, because the ring is supposed to corrupt its bearer absolutely, and they would try to use it for their own ends. At the Black Gate, the Mouth of Sauron even says that they think Frodo was a spy when they find him, because it's just not conceivable that a person could resist using the ring to dominate the world.

I enjoy both, but I also quite often cede that Tolkien is a better writer in my opinion. I mean honestly though, GRRM is a career Sci Fi writer and Tolkien was just way more intelligent with more life experiences and likely a greater love of classic myth. Song of Ice and Fire are good, but they're a little trashy, and I admit that. In 50 years, I doubt anyone will be talking about GRRM. Tolkien's work makes ASoIaF look like pro wrestling. Entertaining, sure, but kinda trashy.

Frodo technically failed his quest at the very end. It's doubtful Sam would have been able to just toss the ring into the crack even though he had only possessed it a short time.

i'm always amused at the number of people whose IQ is so low they end up in Cred Forums asking this question

I too think he's a better writer, especially if we're talking about managing the 'fantastic' part of the story, but I enjoy the way gurm writes ASOIAF when he deals with politics, diplomatic plots and stuff. I never minded the supernatural shit much, in all honesty that's not why I keep reading the saga although I perfectly know I'll never see the end of it

this is mostly correct, but and explain that Sauron never even thought that they were planning on destroying the ring. When aragorn was all "get rekt" through the palantir and showed off the reforged Anduril, Sauron thought that he had the ring and was trying to take him down with it, not that he was trying to get to mt. doom and destroy it.

Mostly it's just a surefire way to get a good LoTR thread going.

meant to quote not True, but at the very least, their initial plan was to destroy it. Tolkien himself said that no living person could have destroyed the ring in that moment, and that nobody could have endured its temptation for as long as frodo did, getting closer and closer to mt. doom and the ring's master.

Yeah, I was
And Sorta corrected myself but not entirely.

For the record though, you're right here. Sauron thought Aragorn wanted to bust his shit up with it because, again, he never thought anyone could ever want to (and go through with) destroy it. And he was right

Autist who loved perfection and order corrupted by Morgoth.

I just take the bait everytime in hopes that it becomes a good LotR thread. Sometimes it works. This one's pretty good, I think

Sauron did not expect, and could not conceive, anyone would actually try to destroy the Ring instead of claiming it for themselves. In the book it says:

"He is in great fear, not knowing what mighty one may suddenly appear, wielding the Ring, and assailing him with war, seeking to cast him down and take his place.That we should wish to cast him down and have no one in his place is not a thought that occurs to his mind. That we should try to destroy the Ring itself has not yet entered into his darkest dream."

How did Gandalf know what Sauron thinks?

Is Gandalf actually Sauron?

This. He also couldn't conceive that one of the Wise like Gandalf or Elrond wouldn't claim the Ring to use it against him. It never would have occurred to him that they would send it off with a seemingly defenseless and weak hobbit.

Gandalf was sent to Middle-earth specifically to oppose Sauron. That's been his main mission for hundreds of years.

Explain why Frodo stared into the eye of Sauron and literally tried to give him the ring while speaking to him.

Yeah, it's unfortunate that Tolkien is so looked down upon at /lit/ so all Tolkien discussion has to be on Cred Forums where eagleposting is the only way to start a conversation

Because it's obvious through Sauron's machinations, and he's a literal angelic being that is wiser and more perceptive than other people

How about closing of the entrance to the vulcano and building a fence around the top?

I'd be paranoid as fuck if I were sauron. You never know what those fucking manlets are planning.

Light slits are a structural weakness. - berserker could bomb your shit bro

Yeah but that still doesn't mean that he can know 100% that Sauron never considered the possibility of someone destroying the Ring.

Gandalf had been moving pieces against Sauron for a long ass time to try and take him down, it was the whole reason he was on Middle Earth

> Gandalfs face when he sees the tower explode

It was physically impossible for anyone to destroy the ring in mount doom. The ring's influence grew more powerful the closer they got to sauron.

Because the eye of sauron is not a literal fucking flaming eyeball in the book, it's a symbolic phrase that represents how Sauron, through his emissaries and spies, keeps tabs on the world around him. There was never an instance where he knew frodo had the ring and was taking it to mordor. He knew hobbits were involved in whatever mission was going down, but that's it.

I know it's not his actual eye but the eye communicated with Frodo.

...

In the book when Frodo puts on the ring at Mt Doom and Sauron realises that it's there, it's made clear that Sauron never had thoughts of someone destroying the ring and that became his "folly"

The fact that the Crack of Doom was entirely unguarded and Sauron sent literally his entire host to the black gate speaks volumes about that, user. If he had the slightest idea that sombody would try to destroy the ring, then there would be a fucking dude left behind to guard the door and stop that from happening

Sauron also had corporeal form in the books.

Did Gandalf read the book? did Gandalf know the entrance was unguarded?

I know this is Cred Forums but maybe you should pick up a book once upon a time.

>tfw your troll thread becomes self sustaining and you don't have to samefag anymore

What boards would Sauron shitpost on?

A reminder that Sauron got his ass beat by a dog.

Probably Cred Forums, he'd be among his kind.

holy fuck get your shit together

I'm pretty sure it just would've been safe to assume that Sauron thought no one would want to destroy the ring that has always corrupted people into not wanting to destroy it, cmon man

A magic god-dog.

That dog was magnificient though and a total bro.

BAZINGA!!!

Why didn't they do that?

/diy/

>This guy who wants to flood the world with niggers would fit right in on Cred Forums.

Now you, being fucking retarded, would feel right at home there.

I know OP is shitposting, but as people have answered: it wasn't even conceivable to Sauron that anyone would want to or was able to destroy the Ring so he just didn't give a fuck.

Yeah and all those demi-gods got their shit fucked by a fucking spider, so what

Where was actually Sauron in the books?

In Barad Dur.

See

Doing what? He's never actually seen in person in the books.

Impressive

Literally Satan got his shit fucked by a fucking spider. Spiders are serious shit.

Lugbúrz

Mostly looking through Minas Ithil's palantir, I guess, or managing the affairs of Mordor, coordinating armies, etc.

Cred Forums for sure, ripping into gondor, arnor, and rohan while using a vpn so it's not immediately apparent that it's sauron while also falseflagging numenor to death
because it's in the fucking depths of the ocean and has been for like 7000 years

double trips dude
nice
and Sauron is seen by Gollum in person when he's interrogated, he mentions the fact that he only has 9 fingers

>tfw the Hollywood jews will never ever ruin Silmarillion

youtube.com/watch?v=5Xyt9rikMt4

Feels good man

Strictly speaking, Melkor would have had to be the one to create Ungoliant right? She's clearly a result of the discord he wove into the music. Was she created when Eru made Arda when the music was over, or is she one of the many things Meklor corrupted and imbued with his own power?

Source? He had some form but I don't think it was corporeal.

Tolkein suggested that either she was some black thing that existed in the void, or that she was a Maiar corrupted by Morgoth. Take your pick.

I've often wondered this, it seems to imply that beings like the spiders and the Watcher in the Water are like completely primordial at different points

And yet a fucking manlet with no training and a manlet sword managed to kill her

Shelob isn't Ungoliant you ape.

>it wasn't even conceivable to Sauron that anyone would want to or was able to destroy the Ring
Now, I read the books when I was around 10 so I don't remember much of them, but in the movies, when that nigger with the weird teeth comes out to treat with Aragorn's army, he gives them Frodo's armor and tells them he died, so Sauron must have known about Frodo and his mission.
Or did they just add that in the movies for melodramatic effect?

Why didnt Gandalf even want to touch the ring? Did he think he would follow saruman?

checked

but besides the gollum thing there is an ambiguous passage in ROTK about that

>and then he saw, rising black, blacker and darker than the vast shades amid which it stood, the cruel pinnacles and iron crown of the topmost tower of Barad-dûr. One moment only it stared out, but as from some great window immeasurably high there stabbed northward a flame of red, the flicker of a piercing Eye; and then the shadows were furled again and the terrible vision was removed. The Eye was not turned to them: it was gazing north to where the Captains of the West stood at bay[...]

In the sense that she was a product of the music, possibly. She definitely wasn't made by him in the way that orcs or dragons were, but even still there's some debate on whether Ungoliant was even created by Iluvatar to begin with. Some people think she existed outside of the ainur and their music and stuff, like a monster in the unending void that there was before the Ea. kinda like the thing from stranger things when the bald girl sees it for the first time

Also, he didn't kill Shelob, just badly wounded her.

Frodo was captured but Sam had taken the Ring. They didn't know there were two hobbits in Mordor.

Why is everyone on this board autistic?

Morgoth wove his evil into the fabric of the world, and we're still paying for it.

I've always prefered the maia option than the unknown thing, simply because she first appears in the southern mountains of Valinor. If she wasn't a maia, I don't see how she could sneak there in the first place. Seems to me like she entered Arda with all the other ainurs, or perhaps a bit later like Tulkas, and joined them to Valinor when they made it, but at some point left their society, and ended up taking this form.

I don't think Ungoliant and the Watcher are on the same scale. To my opinion the Watcher is just a remain of Utumno. There's nothing that special about him, he's just a disgusting beast.

Ungoliant created a new race, drank the light of the trees and ended up eating herself.

What the fuck would hobbits be doing in Mordor other than trying to destroy the ring? Sightseeing?

The scouring of the shire is mostly with bravado and confidence, not fighting ability

Spying you retard

The watcher in the water is likely something made by melkor a long fucking time ago, that even sauron wasn't aware of.

>Sauron must have known about Frodo and his mission
He only knew that a hobbit infiltrated mordor, but he never thought he had the ring or was trying to destroy anything. He thought he was a spy. That scene is expanded upon in the book, but it's there. It's not a movie-only event.

The ring has corrupted every living thing that has possessed it, and if that person is powerful, like gandalf or isildur, they're all the more affected by it.

are you on intellectual life support, how do you navigate ur daily life holy fucking shit

>Jackson planned for Aragorn to fight Sauron and have Sauron defeat him by stepping on him then Aragorn stabs Sauron's foot
>pic related
P O T T E R Y

Glad that didn't happen.

so retarded. I'm glad they canned that shit

yeah, there were very few casualties from fighting, they mostly just deposed saruman and scared off his thugs

Yes, and I believe they were just trying to bait Aragorn to see what he'd do. Sauron assumed Aragorn had the ring which is why he was brazen enough to march on the Black Gate. He knew a "halfling" had the ring prior, and figured it was Pippin.

Still, hobbits have always been portrayed as pretty skilled ranged fighters. Look at Bilbo's accuracy and skill at rock throwing in The Hobbit. They were shown to be pretty fierce little archers in that chapter.

That's Fingolfin.

Aragorn is to Fingolfin what niggers are to aryans.

>'He has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough,’ said Gollum shuddering.

Aragorn is actually a late descendant of Fingolfin.

Why diddn't he just block the entrance to the vulcano?

even so, Aragorn would be considered a funny manlet even in Numenor, let alone by the greatest elves of history

see you're wrong on the first part. The scene wasn't just thrown in the movie for dramatic effect, they just don't spell out what they thought frodo was doing like in the book. Otherwise you're spot on; they thought aragorn had the ring and was trying to retardedly attack sauron's forces head-on, a fight he would handily lose. That's why is so stupid, the whole point of LOTR is that might and epic combat isn't what saved the day. Having Sauron show up completely takes away the importance of what Frodo and Sam are doing, and puts too much importance on Aragorn's side of things which is basically a distraction so the real mission can be completed.

He did, but it's an active volcano, the blockade broke.

This. They were just trying to punk based Elessar

>gandalf is supposed to be the most powerful wizard in middle earth
>never uses magic
What did they mean by this

this isn't Dragon Ball Z, LOTR magic is way more subtle. Also Gandalf was handicapped before being sent to Middle Earth as precautionary measure

He uses magic all the time you retard.

The wizards promised not to use their true powers whilst in Middle Earth.

>Never uses magic
>Inspires a bunch of assholes to topple a super being
>Draws another wizard out of someone
>Creates light out of a rock
>Lights pinecones on fire and they explode like grenades
>Calls down a fucking lightning bolt onto his sword to kill an ancient demon

Yeah, nah.

>>gandalf is supposed to be the most powerful wizard in middle earth
No he's not. Within his race, he's the weakest of them present in Middle-Earth and Sauron is the strongest. He's below Saruman even. Even then his strength seems to be more wisdom than actual wizardry.

He's certainly stronger than Radagast. Gandalf possesses one of the Three.

Guys, leave the dragons to me.

Was Tolkien ever gonna write a story about the Blue Wizrads who were undermining Sauron in the East?

Yeah, Sauron can rek them all, he's completly free. The Istaris aren't free, they don't have all their powers, and they don't even have all their knowledges/memories. Their time on Middle-Earth is like a dream to them, when they return to Valinor they "wake up" and regain their true natures.

Sauron is fully awake.

btw, that Galadriel vs Sauron scene in the hobbit movies is bs

the previous replies are all correct in their own way. The wizards sent to middle-earth were ordered not to oppose sauron with direct force; their mission was to unite mankind and guide/inspire them to victory. But at the same time, gandalf uses magic all the fucking time. Impersonating the trolls, magically trying to keep the door shut that the balrog eventually broke down, and facing the balrog itself and later the Witch King. It's not like D&D where people are throwing spells around left and right and hitting people with magic missile, it's more of a physical power than a light show.

When he's reborn or whatever you call it, he's powered-up by Iluvatar himself, at which point he is more powerful than saruman. Also when he first arrived he was the meekest looking, but fitting in with LOTR's theme, Cirdan saw that he would do great things and gave him his ring of power

no, but he touched upon them in his notes that were released posthumously. They basically started a cult around themselves in the far east, and while they didn't help to beat sauron, in a roundabout way they weakened him; without that cult, Sauron would've had far more followers in the East that he could throw at middle-earth

Thats objectively wrong. Gandalf was supposed to lead the istari, but he was afraid of the great responsibility, and his own humbleness made him beg to not have that charge placed on him. He was a student of themost powerful of the valar.

Saruman, who was prideful even then (seriously, fuck Aule) stepped into the leadership position. When the 5 arrived at lindon based cirdan recognized the greatness in gandalf immediately and secretly gave him his ring of power, rightly recognizing that he would desperately need it before his task was done.

It's not Aule's fault the guy's an asshole. Were it not for him, everybody would be fucking banging rocks together in Arda plus no dwarves, but I can understand how some might consider that a good thing

why is Putin look like Gollum?

>Teaches feanor how to craft gems
>sauron is one of his disciples
>Creates shify dwarves against the express wishes of eru
>Saruman is also his disciple
Seriously, he's almost as responsible for shit going sideways in middle earth as melkor was.

Be that as it may, he didn't know any better. Even iluvatar says that, since he's all-knowing, he knew that that shit with the dwarves was gonna happen, and by extension everything else that aule indirectly caused

See

These threads just get worse.

go to bed, Bill

>orks

comfy thread

The guy who said the danger of the run was largely in its size had it right. Elko be a weaker every time he invented his power to some new horror and Sauron treated this as a hint that if your machinations must diminish you, simply transfer your divine abilities instead of litteraly feeding your blood to something thats just going to get killed by an elf.
Film logic is in aesthetics, not in accuracy or sense.
Lands empty of soldiers due to war makes sense, so does delegating decisions to orcs ending in failure.
Shelob was better for him in benign neglect than as a tenant

I always love a good LOTR thread.

Weren't there a few that Sam took care of?

Where were you when the Noldor crossed the point of no return?

Anybody else find The Battle of Five Armies exhausting to sit through?

aside from a few good scenes, that was the weakest of the Hobbit movies

I was in Tirion upon Tuna making crafts when Fingon ring
"The Teleri are kill"
"no"
and you???????????

yeah tolkien himself said he saw lots of problems when he went back and reread his book after it was published, but he was done with it and under no obligations to change it. his foreword in the audio book i listen to once a year while out running/walking

Sorry for phone posting. Its ruined this place, I agree
Never ever
Origin unclear by most monsters are indeed from the Night of Arda, deep or no
Moviefag. Do you also think the Pellenor Field is a barren steppe?
Truly a post without merit
Any open pit like it, one assumes
Like the weariness of living for the total span of time is only soothed but not forgotten by possessing it.
Its clear they were the earliest and most remote works of Melkor
If his form requires it, he would. Naturally Tolkien would never depict such an event
Sauron's nature bled into it in its use, yes

stay mad teleri pleb

The first was by far the strongest, and I think the second's biggest flaw was not ending Smaugs story then and there. It would have been a better cliffhanger if Bard slayed him and everyone realizing shit was up for grabs. 3 on the other hand just felt like a long 3rd act altogether.

So why didnt the orcs use the giant worms for anything outside of unit placement?

Giant worm is another trick pulled by Hackson. Afaik, in the books they are only stories.

it was ridicules to make the series 3 movies

Because he was overconfident and thought he could see everything in Mordor.

Lol
He wasn't, he freely repented then thought about how long it would take to be trusted again and decided mastery of Earth sounds better than indignation spanning millennia
Thus Nummenor
No, she was not divine nor predated earth. She was one enormous exception
Literally in the texts. Commendable post.
Best post on the subject this year
Solid speculation I've written on
His current works are through /LGBT/
THE dog
Hobbits cant swim
Shitposting

Why do Trolls speak in the hobbit but not in LOTR?

Cred Forums obviously

Different species of trolls.

The ones in LOTR are cave trolls I believe.

daily reminder that Feanor did nothing wrong

>Before this is over, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many

Fucking SPOILERS Gandalf! What was his god damn problem?

...

>be the hero Gondor deserves for years
>the unresistable enemy finally erodes your will and hope
>get the most ridiculous death ever

Why did Jackson hate Denethor so much?

youtube.com/watch?v=Kl1rroJOZzw

youtube.com/watch?v=AtltpRa0ojE

>Fingolfin, one of the few noldor who wasn't a complete douche
>gets screwed over and abandoned by Feanor
>Leads his people across a massive and literal frozen hell
>becomes high king of the noldor
>Morgoth surprises the elves with a massive offensive
>Fingolfin barely manages to drive off the attack from his kingdom
>Gets fucking pissed
>Bystanders mistake Fingolfin riding to challenge Melkor as the god of the hunt
>Gets to Melkor's house
>Refuses to come out
>Fingolfin calls him a beta cuck pussy faggot coward afraid to face him
>Melkor has enough and comes out bearing a massive war hammer from hell's forge
>Fingolfin is fucking pissed and fights a literal god to a stand still
>Melkor is scared
>Eventually just starts cracking open the ground with missed blows
>Fingolfin eventually falls into a crater
>Nearly cuts off a gods foot as he's being crushed
>His body is about to be torn apart and fed to the wolves
>King of the eagles and personal messenger of the king of the gods saves the body at the last minute and takes the body back to his people

Literally the most badass Tolkien story, prove me wrong.

His death in the book was much more fitting as supposed to the 100 yard sprint he made to the edge while on fire in the movie.

>Really loved the movies
>Finally read the books
>Realize how fucking shit the movies now are

What the fucking hell. Why'd Jackson make Faramir such an asshole?

lmao

Plain and simple ? Shit writing

He felt like he needed to inject some character conflict for movie audiences.

And he was right.

In the movies he seemed like some cuntish old fool who by some mistake or chance became steward of gondor, while in the book he is that grim and powerful superhuman with an iron will

He should have tried to make the Siege of Gondor menacing in some way instead

...

>you are men of gondor you will stand your ground
>fully armoured trolls break through gates
>gandalf looks like he just shit himself

I remember everyone in the cinema chuckling.

It's been a while since I watched RotK, but did any of his positive qualities make it over from the book? I know the reveal that he had been wearing full plate armor every waking hour to keep his body strong didn't, and that was seriously badass.

Witch-king being upgraded to Gandalf's , but my raging WK boner accepts it.

Gandalf's level*

I gotta go to bed

It is impossible for the ring to be destroyed by sheer will.

There is no one who could willingly throw the ring into the mountain so why even bother defending it?

why does your reaction pic complain about fags but at the same time looks over at your very own post?

Its looking at the op

Wrong direction.

nope, it's looking to the right at the lines
>There is no one who could willingly throw the ring into the mountain so why even bother defending it?

Shut up

>There is no one who could willingly throw the ring into the mountain so why even bother defending it?
Pretty sure Tom Bombadil could do it.

He could but he never would

>King Excellent
Only Sauron would give himself such a fratboy name

Bombadil would've left the ring on a tree branch somewhere because he thought the tree deserved to look pretty.

Tolkein spent years translating Old English texts while he was a professor at Oxford. His best example is his translation of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, which is partially the foundation of the legend of King Arthur. To say that he 'likely' had a greater love of classic myth is a huge understatement. He was, for his time, THE guy to go for when you wanted to know shit about English mythology. He loved mythology so much that he spent decades writing his own myth so that it could one day be enjoyed in the same way that we enjoy the tales of Arthur and the Knights of Camelot today.

There isnt a more worthless character in literature than tom fucking bombadil

Patrick Rothfuss tried to make one when he had his MC fucking a faerie slut for 2 years straight and not contributing anything to the outside world.

>leaves in on Old Man Willow
>it turns the whole forest evil and Bombadil fails to notice

Point of view

>cause you'd still be able to fly there with eagles you fucking retard
just build a pile of orcs you dipshit. then at least the eagles have to go 9/11 on that orc pile to get there

>Point of view
Point of view!
youtube.com/watch?v=pSOBeD1GC_Y

This is why JRR is the King.

Instead it's a troll in the film isn't it? I know there's test footage of the scene where the troll is replaced with a ghost version of Sauron.

The last thing Sauron expected was someone trying to destroy the ring. He had to much faith in his creation.

Actually, Eru pushed Gollum for him to fall and destroy the Ring.

So if Gandalf is now the 'leader' of the Wizards, why didn't he feel it was necessary to check up wtf the Blue ones were up to? He kinda just fucks off after Sauron's defeated, but if the Blue ones went the Saruman route, wouldn't they be capable of fucking shit up really bad for Aragorn and co?

Because he was sending them out to counter the Gondor Army which was coming to his gate. That was the whole point of the attack.

>he thought Aragorn had the Ring

Wouldn't he be very suspicious about why Aragorn wasn't wearing the Ring?

Erm... no

Rightly so

So he should leave a pivotal moment in the war and travel hundreds of miles in search of awol wizards who may be dead and worse, hostile?

>Ancalagon is basically the size of a house

Mount Doom is not your regular volcano. More like one that will never go extinct.

There are decent paragraphs in ASOIAF aswell. No need for X vs Y in every thread.

A good guy corrupted by Morgoth, the real evil actually.

Sauron is cute CUTE

Not being an ass but I'd genuinely like to see them

Why didn't sauron just read LoTR before the movie came out so he would know how to win?

Made me lol at sheldon.

Lotr is theater. Got is more like a soap opera. That is the difference

Made me laugh on public transport like a retard.

I'm going to need you to take this test

why not just watch the movie before it came out?

There's more of that. It's kind of gay.

The ball is obviously in the box

What did Ann mean by this?

Birds ARE reptiles, dipshit

I meant after Sauron's defeated. Like isn't he somewhat responsible for their behavior since he's the new "leader"? And if they WERE evil, wouldn't it be pretty much screwing over the rest of middle earth to leave two very powerful beings in charge of a hostile and now leaderless East?

That's what you think and what I hope.
Hackson will inevitably fuck up Silmarillion as well.

she looks in the basket, cuz that's where she left it

what do i win

thats not the question. The question is where sally will look for the ball and the answer is the basket

Why did I think she'd look in the box? Am I retarded?

Melkor/ morgoth pretty much created all the evil nasty monsters. He's basically the devil and the reason for all bad things in the world.

I get what this is trying to do, but if Sally was observant, she wouldn't have to check the basket, she could see the blanket no longer has a ball shape and would know it's been moved.

can we assume that sally does know the ball is not in the basket anymore? i mean look at it, if the ball was still in the basket, the fucking blanket would not lay flat

because you knew what she didn't, didn't think about the question in that context, and placed your own line of thought ahead of hers

rare friendly user says you just weren't paying enough attention because this is nothing special, and you gave it the weight it deserves

That is true, but Arangorn was 6'6'', which is pretty tall for a man in the third age, while Elendil, his direct ancestor was 7'11''. Still, Elendil was the tallest of the Numenoreans who escaped from Numenor when it got drowned.

wow thanks friendly user, I feel better now.

Numenoreans were fucking super-humans tho

Aragorn tricked Sauron into thinking he had the ring and was going to try and use it against him. This is what caused Sauron to initiate his invasion of Gondor early and this was the whole point of Aragorn going to the black gate to fight, so they can keep distracting him.

Why didn't Elrond murderkill Isildur and push him with the ring Into the lava and then run away

Well, yeah, pretty much, but that's only because they lived so close to Aman.

treasure it user, it's the nicest i'll be to anyone anywhere for months to come

There is just one thing I can't make up. Maybe it's the movies that fuck over the scale of things, but given how realtively few escaped the destruction of Numenor, how did Elendil and company build up such a large force to fight Sauron in such a relatively short time? I know that there were already some faithful living in the lands, but it still seems a bit odd that they managed to fight Sauron so rapidly after arriving to Middle Earth.

Great way of making friends with perhaps the mightiest force in Middle Earth after the defeat of Sauron. Also, he would be killing his own kin.

He's not responsible for any of them. They have free will and chose to do with it other than what they came to do. If they were a threat gandalf would have done something about them.

there is no knowledge of them or their whereabouts so it would have been a futile mission to find them

He would also get corrupted anyway soon after taking the ring.

ACTUALLY

The troll is CGI'd on top of sauron in post-production

That's too easy to thenerdmorons who love peter jackson's cursed entity.

Haven't read the silmarillion in ages, did She really eat herself?

That's the frightening part, it's suggested in an offhand way that that probably happened. Or maybe not, and that thing is still out there.

nah orginally they both fell but he retconned it into one falling and the other having to oppose him saruman gandalf style

But Tom Bombadil is Morgoth?

Damn I really loved how mt doom was used as a source of raw material for sauron's armies.

Yeah that's what I meant

badass, sure. My personal fave would be Gurthang speaking to Turin before he an heros

>The cry of Morgoth in that hour was the greatest and most dreadful that was ever heard in the northern world; the mountains shook, and the earth trembled, and rocks were riven asunder. Deep in forgotten places that cry was heard. Far beneath the rained halls of Angband, in vaults to which the Valar in the haste of their assault had not descended, Balrogs lurked still, awaiting ever the return of their Lord; and now swiftly they arose, and passing over Hithlum they came to Lammoth as a tempest of fire. With their whips of flame they smote asunder the webs of Ungoliant, and she quailed, and turned to flight, belching black vapours to cover her; and fleeing from the north she went down into Beleriand, and dwelt beneath Ered Gorgoroth, in that dark valley that was after called Nan Dungortheb, the Valley of Dreadful Death, because of the horror that she bred there. For other foul creatures of spider form had dwelt there since the days of the delving of Angband, and she mated with them, and devoured them; and even after Ungoliant herself departed, and went whither she would into the forgotten south of the world, her offspring abode there and wove their hideous webs. Of the fate of Ungoliant no tale tells. Yet some have said that she ended long ago, when in her uttermost famine she devoured herself at last.