You have 10 SECONDS to name something dumber than traveling by aircraft

>no control over your life in a metal tube in the sky
enjoy your fiery death retard loser faggot zilch

freight train hopping

autist detected

>/thread
go back you fucking moron

I've gotten stabbed walking. I've never gotten stabbed on a plane

...

>statistically speaking jerking off is safer than fucking which is why I only do that it is my choice not to have sex you see I promise

Ah yes this is how statistical analysis works! Very good.

you

Attached: BOTTOMLESSPIT.jpg (645x729, 42K)

>Uh walking is definitely safer?

Not true

Air travel is infinitely safer per mile traveled than walking.

If you walk 5000 miles, it's almost guaranteed something bad will happen to you along the way.
Travel 5000 miles by plane? Chances of crashing is 1 in 11 million. You're most likely getting home pristine and scratch-less.

Statistical analysis is also on my side you dumb nigger

You've been watching too much "Air Crash Investigation" on National Geographic haven't you?

>you literally can't

Just did

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>Statistically fewer crashes per person traveling.

Now look up how many people survive plane crashes vs any other kind of transportation crash

Entirely speculative.

Travlling in a Ford
/thread

>posting /thread in his own post

getting married to a feminist

>Entirely speculative.

Entirely retarded response

It's all literally measured with zero room for error, as every plane travel is recorded and so is each crash, irrefutable hard data

Travelling by rocket

Post the walking danger data, speculation boy.

Being a feminist

traveling by car

Voting for Bernie sanders so niggers and trailer trash can have my money

Piloting the airplane

cringe

>implying you pay taxes despite being unemployed

being an amerifag?

I could, but it's your claim that walking is safe, so where is your non-speculative data?

Seems like you jumped the shark, don't worry it's ok to lose an argument badly

STatistics are stupid, here's why. You have a 1 in 167 chance of being robbed face to face in your lifetime. What's the probability that you will be robbed? Well, you can't be 50% robbed or 33% mugged, it's 0% or 100%, you are either robbed or not. Just like a plane crash, statistically speaking it is safe, but in a plane crash you are 100% in a plane crash not .00004% likely to be in that plane crash...
Get it?

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lol where do you think you are

Saying traps arnt gay

"I'm too dumb to interpret statistics correctly, thereby statistics are stupid, not me"

loooooooooooooooooooool

Your retarded post

If I never get on a plane the likelihood that I will die in a plane crash is zero therefore it is the safest way to travel because I will never die doing it.

OP

wrong, if a plane crashes into your house and you are in the room that it destroys, you are 100% in that plane crash.

>Appeal to autism

You really got me user

seriously

where do

you think you are

that you're going to

get

serious responses and not trolling

good argument, but I can counter with...statistics don't make the event not exist, they predict a chance for an individual to be in that specific circumstance, but I canno't statistically be tied to a plane crash I am not in..or are you too stupid to realize you aren't in a plane crash at this moment...unless you are.

traveling by vegan.

I only exist where there is zero overhead aircraft traffic and if I see a plane I retreat into one of several five thousand foot deep crash shelters I have stashed around. I am constantly vigilant and operate sophisticated radar and keep track of all airplanes within ten thousand miles of my location at all times.

wow you're fucking retarded

>doubling down on autism

Gee I back down now... you win you're just too retarded for anyone to defeat you

fair enough, I guess you are a statistical anomaly user.

just answer instead of reeeee

where do you think you are?

good argument.
>why

a loose vibration in the space time continuum

all I'm getting from this is that you don't understand how probability works

This is like the kid doing dangerous stunts on a motorcycle and coming out without injury, and going "but mooooom NOTHING HAPPENED don't you get it? it's ok!"

Unfortunately if I ever travel by air it will no longer be safer than walking. This is my paradox fam. :(

OP

see

Uh it is ok if nothing happened? You don't magically suffer consequences after the fact when you find out a thing is dangerous like a coyote learning about gravity and only then falling.

Making this post and pretending you’re not deeply and introspectively hurt when someone calls you a fat fucking loser

>STatistics are stupid

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Answer this question

and all im getting is that you rely to heavily on statistics. Let's take a common example, 50% of crime committed in the US is done by blacks. Therefore Statistically you are more likely to see blacks commit crime branding a loose association of fear toward blacks. (Most blacks are criminals so statistically I should fear them over other races). Statistically a plane crash is unlikely, so It is a "safe" way to travel. Statistically speaking, how many people survive plane crashes?

"MuH sTaTisTicS" its not only accidents its also the lethality of the accident. The chances of surviving a plane accident are almost 0%. Also there are far more cars than planes so ofc the statistic for cars is worse. Sheeps malding because "MuH sTaTisTicS"

my point exactly. A safe way to travel is walking.

just because you have to be careful on how you interpret data, doesn't mean you shouldn't rely on data

I mean what's your alternative? anecdotal data? ... that's just statistics with a ridiculously small sample

You have no case, just take the L and move on

Your chance of death from an aircraft accident is only around 5% Planes don't fall out the sky like rocks they instant something happens, they are able to glide for several kilometers on their inertia. This largely results in water landings for minimal injuries. Your chance of death from a car accident above 60kp/h is around 45% for comparison.

Disregard these statistics if you are from Iraq and your government wants to show the west it means business.

in reference to Consider the statistic I just provided, 50% of "Crime"
What does "Crime" encompass? Murder, Rape, Theft, Robbery, Speeding, Driving Under The Influence, Loitering, Indecent Exposure

Traveling by car

kek
and
>Citation or not real statistics

kinda hard to walk from california to new york in less than a day.

This thread

WINRAR

You can make walking a 100% safe activity with zero risk. The same cannot be said for plane travel. You can wrap yourself in mattresses and airbags and only walk through empty fields. With air travel you're at the whim of the captain.

traveling by onager

It's impossible actually. That doesn't mean walking can't be safer. You're reading risk for convenience when you fly. Enjoy burning in a firy wreck

Dude, you have to stop making these threads

Without air travel, the statistically safest way to travel, Western Civilization would not be as developed as it is. And the more superstitious nitwits you talk out of flying, the more plane tickets cost

Please stop

>Combine massacre of 2020

Traveling by horse.

winrar

What's the chance of death in a head-on collision if one car is going only 10 mph and the other is going 80 mph?

I was in the car going about 10 mph, and I got out of the car, climbing over the screaming, bloody girl in the passenger seat and walked out.

where do you think you are, debate team? we're having fun not solving life's mysteries.

What do you think the mattresses are for?

No you can't, some drunk fuck can drive over you any time you are outside

>Developed
you niggers are buying headphones that have no wire attached to them and buying necklaces that resemble eyewear retainers to keep the headphones from getting lost

Wrong. You can helmet up and wrap yourself in bubble wrap and avoid roads. Only travel through the wilderness at night and take extra safety precautions when crossing roads. Vigilance can mitigate all risk when walking. The same cannot be said of flying.

Forgot picture

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If you made it your life's mission to never get hit by a car, you could absolutely do that without much trouble.

traveling by large round object made of iron-nickel and silicates and covered in salty water

Live with the Amish?

Nice b8 m8

That has nothing to do with the business that takes place world wide that drives the cost of groceries and housing down

It's clear that you're too narrow minded to really grasp how much air travel, the statistically safest way to travel, benefits every part of your life.
It's fine to be dumb *if* you realize that you don't know things and keep your uneducated thoughts to yourself

allowing yourself to be vaccinated.

Head to the frozen wilds of northern Greenland and get good with a polar bear stick? Build an undersea laboratory biodome and populate it with renewable food sources and only accept deliveries via submarine?

Sitting in a car for hours and hours longer than an aircraft, exposing you to a much higher risk of crashing.

Ezpz /thread.

Lolololol I responded without reading the thread then found this absolute gem from OP

MODS can you delete this thread please, it's shit posting that doesn't benefit anyone and actually makes everyone dumber

You've got a way better chance of surviving over the guys at 80kp/h. Your taking a lot of the initial force yes, but you have far less deceleration to deal with.
What actually kills most people in car accidents isn't flying metal, its the force of deceleration tearing your organs into mince.
The human body unfortunately, fares extremely poorly at sudden deceleration, we evolved to be slow endurance hunters with comparatively slow reflexes. Our internal organs are only held in place by small bundles of tendons that cant handle 100kp/h impacts. This means they have a horrible tendency snap, become free floating and begin to bounce back and forth against the rib-cage and spinal column and tear themselves/every other organ apart.

Unless you are from the UK, then the leading factor in vehicle accident fatalities is immigration visa status and undisclosed mental illness.

traveling by bicycle

Ole race car guy survived hitting a wall at 225mph
That's not much slower than the smaller passenger jets
If the brain is protected, the body can survive some crazy shit

look up Vesna Vulovic

you're forgetting every extra minute spent walking some long distance vs flying there exponentially increases the chances you die from any number of hazards you might encounter walking that prohibitively long distance.

Thanks for the answer. Actually, it was only mostly head-on. My car spun about 270 degrees and landed in a ditch by the side of the road with the back axle knocked off. The other guy got out of his truck and pissed on it. He was drunk and speeding, and that's what caused the accident.

I'm talking about Kenny brack 220-0 in a quarter second

>Routine flight at cruising altitude
>Captain's altimeter glitches and shows the plane pitching upward despite flying perfectly level
>Captain plunges plane downward to "correct" the angle
>Co-pilot is powerless to stop him
>Plane goes from perfectly fine to being a smoking crater in less than 80 seconds

Attached: mayday.png (1536x864, 936K)

>Voting democrat
>thinking bernie has any good policys.

There you got 2

You misspelled "policies."

traveling by 2 aircraft, one under each shoe

That's a bad comparison, the best way to compare is how many people die per mile traveled.

Race cars are built like fucking tanks though, and they eliminate the major weakness of the car's structural integrity by simply not having doors, watch them closely sometime and you'll see they climb in and out through the windows.
They are also designed around a curved internal frame, ever notice how race cars tend to spin like crazy when they hit things? Its because of the internal structure of reinforcements that assist in twisting the force away from a direct hit. In simple terms its like building an egg inside the vehicle.
I had a great one myself, drunken dipshit doing 250kp/h down the main street drag racing his drunk fuckwit friend, lost control and plowed into my car as I was in my driveway about to reverse onto the road, it sheared the back half of my car away and I wound up sitting in the front of the car wondering why I was in my neighbors yard. I was fine. The guy who hit me, they literally cleaned him up with a pressure hose because the bits were too small to collect by hand. What was left of him wound up about 12 houses down the road, nearly 120 meters away, with the rear end of my car partially through his windscreen.

cringe

Nah. Just requires vigilance. If you're lazy that's fine. Risk can be mitigated when walking. When on a plane, DEFINITELY not.

That's less than a 1 in a million thing

>Driving a car
>Get a phone call
>Look down to see who it is
>In the second I glance down, traffic stops abruptly
>Kill 3 people, injure 3 more

The difference between our posts is that mine happens multiple times a day every single day

Air traffic control would come over the radio immediately to tell you to correct if you are a commercial jet

Next scenario

Yeah, that is a spectacular crash. It beats mine all to hell even though I had a hawt stupid girl in my passenger seat screaming for Jesus and her daddy as I crawled out of the wreckage.

We have the winner right here.

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So a completely avoidable thing?

Itt: the reason humans need to die - absolute tards edition

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OP

>Risk can be mitigated when walking. When on a plane, DEFINITELY not.

I'll take what is a parachute for $200 Alex.

>Notices plane skidding off runway.
>Pops open door casually
>Jumps out
>Hits ground at 500mph
>Pulls ripcord
>Head rolls away

Browsing Cred Forums

so you don't now that's not how you use a parachute...right?

>skidding
>500 mph
Who the hell is your pilot?

/thread

You don't get to decide. That's why air travel is dangerous.

Most plane crashes happen within a few seconds of hitting the ground not in the air lol

Great logic, I love deciding if a Semi-Driver falls asleep driving, careens across the highway and destroys me in my weak ass Hyundai

that's why you wouldn't use the parachute in that example.

that wasn't OP asshat

>plane skidding off runway.
>Jumps out
>Hits ground at 500mph
>500mph

so at that point in time how are you suddenly traveling at a faster speed than the plane is?

I'll take a pilot who can skid a plane at 500 mph

Private automobile ownership

most accidents happen within a few seconds of an accident occurring!

Terrifies me just thinking about it

kek

hahaha

Don't drive. Walk. Stay away from roads. Easy.

>something dumber
your post

Yeah that's what i said. Plane crashes happen on the ground. Parachutes don't save you.

Banning aircraft

No thanks, I prefer to get to where I'm going at 80mph, weaving in between other motorists in an attempt to get there sooner at 5pm.

>10 seconds
Anonymous 01/22/20(Wed)07:54:44 No.819012588
>first post
Anonymous 01/22/20(Wed)07:55:27 No.819012612
>damn...we've been had.

But aircraft don't kill people, people kill people

>Walk
>Stay away from roads

so taking into account how most all stores are located adjacent to roads/streets, and have "roads" running all around them (parking lots) how do you get to the store to buy food & other daily/weekly needs if you are avoiding roads?

cringe

At any given time there may be up to 20,000 planes in the air world wide. Yes every once in a while one crashes. Better chance winning a lottery tho

Fuck, I buy 6 tickets a day in hopes of winning. You're saying I would have been better off buying lottery tickets?

Your mom not aborting you.

Amazon doesn't work for you? Move to the woods and learn to hunt? Stop being such a consumer? There are a million ways. Use your brain fam.

so the real deal is you don't like going out in public?

*scoffs*

Travel by land craft. There are more fatal accidents by land craft than air craft

>You have 10 SECONDS to name something dumber than traveling by aircraft.
>>protip: you literally can't.

that which can be easily asserted without evidence can also be easily dismissed without evidence.

Traveling by car. Slower, and far more likely to get you killed.

Paying attention to twats as yourself!

What? I fly all the time. Walking is definitely safer though.

kek, if somone needs toilet paper, and they could feel a major shit was gonna hit in less than an hour, no one is gonna walk a mile to the store or order it from on amazon, you're gonna jump in the car and blast to the walmart like a madman on a mission so you don't shit your self.

Believing in God. Statistically speaking, traveling by aircraft is the safest means of transportation man has invented after say, shoes. Planes crash, and just like lightning strikes randomly, you can never know when it’s your time to die. Pilots are both highly trained and disciplined. More people die each year in car crashes because firstly, they let any idiot drive a car as long as they memorize a 24 page handbook and demonstrate they can navigate an empty parking lot within the orange cones. Couple that with the fact that you people can’t abstain from looking at your phone within the span of getting in your car and driving somewhere, like work or the fuckin grocery store, and you have a truly unprecedented death rate on the roads. I can count on two hands the number of planes that have crashed within the last 18 months, but literally 3000 people die a fuckin day in or around cars. So tell me there ya fuckin genius, how in the rat fuck do you figure flying is dumber than say, believing in an intangible god who is magically all powerful and benevolent while simultaneously allowing people to die both randomly and as a result of their own stupidity?

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Travelling literally any other way. Every mode of transport including walking involves more fatalities per person-mile than air travel.

>Walking is definitely safer though.

tons of youtube videos do kinda disprove that statement tho.

Traveling by car

Look up statistics retard

You can absolutely mitigate dangers when walking through vigilance. The same cannot be said for air travel.

If you travelled the same distances on foot and by plane, you would be more likely to die, regardless of risk mitigation attempts, on foot. If you travelled the same distances by car and by plane, again, the car would be more likely to kill you. Driving is less safe than flying, walking is less safe than flying. Driving is less safe than walking. Riding a motorcycle is practically asking to die.

There is a hierarchy of safest travel methods. Flying is at the top.

>You can absolutely mitigate dangers when walking through vigilance

not 100% you can't.

Air travel is highly risk-mitigated by tight legislation already. You can't mitigate the risks of walking caused by other people, only those caused by your own action, and there are a lot more ways others on land, who are not vigilant, nor legislated to extreme risk aversion, can kill you than there are ways to die in the air. Air travel will always be safer until and unless walking becomes licensed, tested and safety-legislated. The only way to avoid the higher risk of dying per person-mile by walking, is to not walk anywhere.

Safer traveling by air than any other way.

In absolute numbers, driving is more dangerous, with more than 5 million accidents compared to 20 accidents in flying. A more direct comparison per 100 million miles pits driving's 1.27 fatalities and 80 injuries against flying's lack of deaths and almost no injuries, which again shows air travel to be safer.

traveltips.usatoday.com/traveltips.usatoday.com

Is Air Travel Safer Than Car Travel? - Travel Tips - USA Today

Being op and not killing yourself yet

Wrong. You can avoid 100% of death risks while walking through vigilance.

this post/thread or you being excreted from ur mother asshole as a fetus

You can wrap yourself in bubble wrap and wear a helmet and drag a hundred thousand pound barricade everywhere with you using a series of ropes and pulleys. It's inconvenient but you can mitigate the risk of walking. You cannot do that with air travel.

>Stop being such a consumer

ok boomer

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Nah you're not taking into account that most people who are killed while walking aren't paying attention or protecting themselves with helmets and mattresses. If you wear a helmet and stick to residential streets and only walking during low traffic times, walking is significantly safer than air travel.

Uhhhh you know that boomers are pro consumerism yeah?

none of that 'protection' would stop a car from injuring you. your brain would still impact the inside of your skull even with a helmet.

ok again boomer

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Not traveling at all like cumsucking OP

Superpower

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Walking

Incorrect. No matter how vigilant you are you don't have 360° vision, instant reflexes and instant acceleration. Even if you are taking the most circuitous routes, everything is connected by roads and you cannot move faster than a speeding car. Additionally, a plane could land on you. Lightning strike could hit you, you definitely can't dodge that. The combination of all the ways that could kill you that vigilance cannot prevent far exceeds the number of ways you can die in a plane, and are far more likely.

If lightning strikes a plane the plane gives off a little St Elmo's Fire, Faradays that shit off, and keeps going. If lightning strikes you on your maximum vigilance walk you very likely die. That alone is more likely to happen while you walk than you being in a plane crash.

You cannot mitigate the increased likelihood of death by walking except by not walking. That's all there is to it.

>walking with helmets

op is going to corner the helmet market by re-purposing down syndrome helmets as 'walking helmets'.

Nope. You could still be hit by a car, and the mattresses and helmet are only going to impede your field of vision and make it harder for EMTs to access you if you get injured. No amount of PPE and vigilance can mitigate the probability of dying while walking to the point that it is safer per person-mile than hyper-safety-legislated flying.

Flying in the Congo.

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>mattresses
Dead. Dead literally the first time a car comes barrelling towards you because that shit is going to get twisted onto your body, fuse to you, and make it impossible to save your life when the ambulance arrives. Helmet is about the only sensible thing you said, has to be the right kinda helmet though, and better than a mattress would be motorcycle protective gear which is easily removable, abrasively resistant (unlike a mattress), flame retardant (ditto), and allows you mobility (again mattress fucks you here) with which to roll with whatever blow comes.

And still with all the protective gear in the world if a semi driver comes off the road at you you will die. If you need to reach any area that is not a residential area that is significantly more likely than you being in a plane crash.

Nah. Stop walking on the freeway maybe?

Don't walk in thunderstorms. Wow that was hard.

Don't have to be on a freeway. This may surprise a neetbux faggot who never leaves mom's basement but cars exist on most roads.

>name something dumber than traveling by aircraft.
posting this thread

Well done. You mitigated one factor. Cars still exist.

aviation transport is one of the safest forms of travel in the world. you probably don't even have a car licence, you loser.

Avoid cars. Wow hard.

Because shilling against Trump on Cred Forums for free by posting the single word that exists in your brain 24 hours a day every day is so much better?

Enjoy never having a real job with the fear of flying. You will be secluded to your shitbox city if you keep having the fear to never leave. Man up and get on a plane, it's extremely safe compared to most forms of transprt.

>Because shilling against Trump on Cred Forums for free by posting the single word that exists in your brain 24 hours a day every day is so much better?

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It took 4 hours but you swallowed the bait like a good brainless retard. Great job.

Why is aircraft travel "dumb"?..

Imagine being that lonely in life you post a bait like this. I really do feel sorry for you my guy. I really hope you cope with your in adequateness
Enjoy your 30k a year.

Hi Greta! How are you today, hur mår du?

Traveling by aircraft under United Airlines

Poster isn't wording his thought quite correctly but he's not off the mark. When you compare the likelihood of being in a crash in plane vs car for miles traveled statistically plane is safer. When instead of miles you use hours chance of a crash is still more likely in a car but it is less than when comparing by miles. The statistical safety of the plane is that I may spend 3 hours to go a thousand miles on a plane whereas I might be in a car 30 hours to go the same distance. However, when you compare the likelihood of surviving a crash a car is way safer. What I think the poster is getting at is expected value of survivability. If you spend 1 hour in a car and 1 hour in a plane what is the likelihood of you walking out of that vehicle alive? In this case a car is safer.

Refusing to leave when an evacuation is ordered, due to hurricane and floodings.

there is also a small chance that an airplane will crash into your house.
no, it's not. The difference is that airplane crashes are pretty much guaranteed death vs car crashes having varying degrees of damage but even if you compare the death toll of both airplanes are still safer.

She looks like a cleaned up retard.

research modern aircraft crashes, you will be surprised by the small amount there is.
Imagine being a human being, and being scared to travel on an airplane. it's very safe, grow up man. fucking pussy

Imagine thinking I'm the guy who posted the bait 4 hours ago lol.

It's clearly safer to walk since you can personally mitigate risk instead of having to rely on a drunk pilot.

/thread has existed on Cred Forums longer than reddit has existed on the internet, newfag

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>still safer than traveling by aircraft

Voting Republican

lol, let's kiss?

I survived an airplane crash. No lie!

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What I stated is true in terms of math but the chance of dying in that hour in either case is miniscule. The statistical safety of flying comes from the fact that planes travel at far greater speeds, there are far fewer of them in motion simultaneously, and because of that, for the majority of their time in motion the only cause of a crash is going to be terrorists or severe mechanical failure. Its safer because its crash opportunity per mile is less. But people who are afraid of flying aren't thinking in terms of crash probability they are thinking in terms of survivability.. So instead when dealing with people who are afraid to fly by saying planes are safer which, when presented in terms of survivability, technically isn't true, I think you might be better just owning to the fact that, yes, a crash will kill you and stick with stats as to the likelihood of crashes without car comparisons.

And I fly. Just a psychologist with stats background who knows the "planes are safer than cars" platitude really doesn't help.

> OP

Didn't even take me 1 second to type.

I mean really walking is the safest when you get right down to it

are you some kids genius? wow more than 120 letters per minute?!? damn you should type professionally

Living in your mothers basement eating tendies 24/7 while not working out is more dangerous than any form of transportation.

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Not according to rekt threads. You need to try and avoid random wheels rolling down the street, cars mounting the pavement, jumpers falling from the sky and maniacs with knives.

Being this guy

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Well that really depends on the when and where. You might be safer in a single prop in an ice storm than walking some neighborhoods at 2am

10...9....8....DEMOCRATS!

you mean diseases that you can only get from infected needles and unprotected sex with whores? those kind of easily preventable diseases?

why not just not be a druggie and not fuck random whores, and be just as safe, with zero chance of a vaccine side effect?

Wait, you mean to say I'm some kid's child?
So somehow a kid had a child and that child was somehow old/smart enough to type a witty joke on Cred Forums?

Or did you simply fail at constructing that sentence in the same way you failed to comprehend mine?
(hint: typing '>OP' in less than 1 second requires a typing speed of at least 180 characters per minute. The average typing speed is 190-200 characters per minute.. not really 'genius' level ability)

Do you get to pick the neighborhood? Yes. Do you get to pick the storm? No.

Walking is clearly safer.

i have walked over 20,000 miles since I started excercising 30 years ago. i have never been injured once.

i have flown on a plane 4 times in that same timeframe. one of those ended up with a collapsed front landing gear and a gashed leg for me as a result of the crash landing.

so yes, walking is a shit ton safer than flying you fucking retard

8l settle down beavis

Even if you count deaths per trips made planes are safer. You gotta realise there are about 40 million trips of planes every year, with deadly crashes usually being in single digits. Cars have deadly crashes way more often than that.

And there infinity billion miles walked per year and three deaths. Walking = safer.

walking 1200 miles instead of flying

95% of 4chans userbase

Cred Forums has the highest average IQ of all Internet communities faggot.

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megalol if you actually believe that

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Posting on Cred Forums implying they don't use said aircrafts ever

>anecdotes

>so yes

retard alert

And going by that same thinking there are billions of trips by car every year. Planes are "safer" or cars are "safer" depending on what statistics you want to play with and how you want to define safety. And yes, depending on what statistics you want to play with and how you want to define safety, walking can be far more "safer" than both But quite frankly, depending on definitions, data sources and stats I'm sure there is a way to show that flying is the "safest" mode of transport even when compared to walking. That's why context is so important with stats. There's a reason why its called "liars math" .

Being a jannie on neo-Cred Forums
Sorry bud that status ended over 10 years ago