Counter spells = nigger tier behavior

The illusion that counterspells are considered more unfair is a nigger tier notion. It is a card for a card, the same as a kill spell, and it takes actual skill to use.

>me play big creature
>nooo you cant interact i play big creature i win

found the combo player

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>Actual skill to use

Yeah sure, trading my 7 cmc card for your stupid 2 mana counterspell at instant speed is really fair. Counter magic has alwas been the cancer of mtg.

depends on the counterspell. Had a commander game with some friends and one played izzet with mizzix. At the end of the game he controlled the board with spell burst alone.

Cry more scrub

Agree, arena it's getting really fucking tiring in bo1, it's always mono red or that stupid simic flash decks all the goddamn time.

counterspells are a feel bad, but not demonstrably overpowered. UW control is overplayed in a few formats right now, but mostly as a knee-jerk 'i dont know what im doing but this will win me some games' reaction to a meta they don't understand. Wizards been shitting on countermagic for years, and fluffing green players hard lately, stop being a salty child.

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nigger I have to actually play those two mana counterspells in my deck, and they take up a card space. And unlike yours, mine isn’t infinitely useful, at all times, to help me win the game. Again, very similar to kill spells.

casting an answer when its the right thing to do is smooth brain as fuck. understanding the metagame, playing the right deck, and including the right tech makes you a good player, but I bet you play Arena exclusively so you just meta against red decks so you can sit at Gold 2 for the rest of your life.

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>My wincon is basically not letting you play the game operating at instant speed, countering, bouncing everything because fuck fun am i right?

Just as mono red and mono blue in the previous meta, they're the same cancerous shit.

>implying its my job as your opponent to ensure you have fun
The game is what it is. Play it or don't. Frankly, your salty bitch tears is pretty much how I have fun. Tell it to Wizards or the DCI.
t. stax player

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it’s not a fundamental problem you have with the game, it’s that you don’t like to be told no. Instant speed comes with a myriad of advantages, but this is outweighed by it’s lack of potential value towards winning the game. Also if their strategy is to delay the game as long as possible, you should be focused on winning the game immediately.

That's how you think everybody sees you playing nigger tier counterspell decks. But in reality it's just frustrating for everybody, trying to play the game as spell after spell meets a very fair two mana counterspell, while you jerk your tiny useless prick, getting off imagining how smart you look. So sad.

>putting this much of your ego into winning card games
stop projecting, kid

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only play Humans with NO NIGGERS

sorry OP but your opinion has been countered

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It doesn't require skill. You just counter every win condition your opponent has and wait for him to concede. It literally requieres the same amount of skill as mono red.

Also mono red counters your lame ass decks and then you start whining, you created this meta.

if counterspells were broken, they'd get banned. but they're not.

learn how to play around them

>learn how to play around them

as I said: aggro

Before this gets deleted by Cred Forums admins, this asshole took it completely out of context. First of all, the idiot thinks it was a marionette deck. It wasn't. That card's not even in the deck. He was running counterspell draw, this was approximately turn 25, every single creature and spell I cast was countered or removed up until that point and this dumbass who copied his deck from MTG Salvation or Goldfish used one of his last copies of negate to counter a Revel in Riches when he had 0 creatures on the field and I had 0 treasures in play, thus the "this spell does literally nothing" and he should have let it resolve. I love it when people copy a deck and have no idea how to run it or play MTG. I was just throwing it out because I had 5 mana and it was the only card left in my hand and the game was already over anyway. So on the way out I let him know what an idiot he was for countering a spell that does nothing in the current board state. NOBODY wants to watch a recording of a game where I cast something and he counters it or removes it x30 turns. That's idiotic. I should have left the game the second I saw what he was running. This was the 5th attempt at getting a recording of something resembling watchable MTG gameplay and 5 people in a row were playing Karn draw control loop or free cast torrential graveyard resurrection control or approach control loop. So yeah, I was pissed and he was an asshole for playing this. He's one of those idiots who doesn't care about the other players one bit, it's all about winning. So running 35 control spells seems reasonable because NOTHING matters but winning. Thanks for not showing the board state with library counts or the full log, asshole. Enjoy your temporary ban from Cred Forums.

ITT: Faggot simps complaining about not being able to read counterspells.
Also ITT: retards that have no idea what a curve is in mtg and play right into counterspells
Also also ITT: Whiny faggots en masse

>NOTHING matters but winning
but this is completely accurate

Counter spells are nothing like they used to be OP. What are you bitching about? Control decks are basically nothing now in new sets. The sets are designed for kids and idiots. Derr I play a creature turns 1 2 3 and planeswalker turn 4 I win! You're lucky you don't have to play against the keeper deck or draw go.

Mill, planeswalker, goblin decks still my best decks. 1v1 at least 80% win percentage. Been playing since 1991.

Always have been, always will be. And will never be fixed because the whales are all blue players.

I loved Jeskai control with 4 Teferis as wincon. Creatures are shit.

I used to play competitively in the mirrodin era. I though you just mulligan hard until you have a good curve in case you play versus control. If you know what tempo is, you should have a deck that is able to pressure a control just enough to where they shouldn't counter your important spells

Sort of amazed people still play this. My local area never has sanctioned tournaments anymore. Isn't it dying?

>pre London mulligan
>"just mull into a curve"
Lol. Turn 2 removal into turn 4 sweeper and you're fked.

That's perfect. You took the bait. Turn 5 I drop my hand

>gets three for one'd on a mulligan
Yeah, that glorious 2 cards hand after drawstep, scary.

Or have more than one win con. I play synergy in all my deck. Yeah it's not a perfect turn 2-3 win, but the only way to stop it is to waste your deck away.

Idk if the mulligan changed. But the tempo concept is simple. Set small creatures or permanents to bait counters. Dont set a lot of permanents until they use their global removal. Ramp the early rounds instead of setting permanents. This is assuming the meta in type two isint shit. When ravager and skull clamp came out control ceased to exist for almost a year.

MtG's real failing is that there's zero wiggle room in the game. Everything is very all-or-nothing. Take OP's card for example. If your opponent is only casting creatures, it is literally a dead card. Now take the creature-countering opposite of the card, Essence Scatter. If your opponent isn't casting creatures, the card is LITERALLY useless. Too much of MtG falls into this exact same pattern of cards either being good or bad with very little inbetween. You have a Lightning Bolt and I have a 4 toughness creature? Sucks to be you. You have a Doom Blade and I have a black creature? Sucks to be you.

The fact that WotC have made absolutely zero attempt at addressing this worst aspect of MtG's gameplay is an absolute disgrace. Local MtG players simply laugh it off and act all "haha this is so miserable :DDD" when they lose and there was nothing they could've done to prevent it. I cannot fathom why anyone would play such a legitimately shallow game. Having >20000 cards in existence does not make a game good.

Would be a shame if you couldn't play that....

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There is always an ebb and flow like this. I've only came back for two stints since like 2005 and both times standard was broken by imba cards that got banned (Jace and smuggler's copter)

gtfo with this scrub shit

>oh no a legitimate game mechanic has foiled my clever plot to defeat my opponent

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Standard has had regular bannings ever since Smuggler's Copter, friend. The format rotated in October, and in just over a month 4 cards had been banned. One of those cards would go on to be banned in multiple other formats while becoming a Legacy and Vintage staple, and the other three cards would go on to become fucking plagues. I don't think Standard has ever been in a worse place than it's currently in. They just reprinted fucking Yawgmoth's Will in the newest set dude. Except now it's 2 mana instead of 3 and it doesn't exile the cards you card from your graveyard. They just sit in your graveyard. To be cast again. Yes the card is currently breaking Legacy.

Well the general tactic in most matchups is simple, just depends on what you have, what you play around and what the other person is doing himself (also love how wotc makes sure the gender distribution on cards is pretty 50/50 while the playerbase is like 80% male).

Oko invalidated anything but midrange before the ban, every time they fuck up a card some arechetype dominates. Printed into standard, then banned from 5 formats exde. UW control is making a comeback rn, I might come back to standard with this.

That's just proper balancing. Its the reason a majority of the community(in my area at least) plays edh. Its not all or nothing. Cycling, self mill, discard all, additional payment discard, and now escape? If you cards are all or nothing that's because you didn't put it in the right deck.

Yeah they seem to keep moving more and more towards big game breakers, but what made magic great was multiple intricate strategies that were all viable. I hate seeing 2-3 dominant deck types each rotation, and the cost of cards is grossly inflated.

>I don't think Standard has ever been in a worse place than it's currently in.
There just were 2 PTs and some massive tournament is coming this week or so. The current meta is very diverse but somewhat boring for some reason.

I think you might be confused. Your assumption is that your opponent always has a counterspell, always has mana, and your threats are all sorcery speed. And you don't have any disruption of your own.

Play discard, or uncounterable threats. Or utilize alternative options to have your opponent waste their mana. Stuff like Castle Ardenvale or similar.

Counters are very healthy for the game. They aren't functionally different from spot removal against fair decks, and keep the unfair decks from running amok.

There are truly unfun ways to play magic, like pox or stasis or lantern control. Your stuff getting countered isn't to deprive you of fun, it's just trading one for one.

Also super obvious bait.

That's not accurate.

There are a million broad answers without restrictions.

They are always less efficient than limited answers.

That's just balance.

I do personally think that EDH is now the only remotely good way to play this game. Having 4 players in a game adds enough of a wildcard factor that games aren't simply decided by the top 10 cards of each player's deck.

Weren't the PTs Pioneer? And weren't they dominated by a new broken deck once again centred around a card in the latest set?
>The current meta is very diverse but somewhat boring for some reason
It's because the cards themselves are super fucking boring. Dull format staples with zero flavour to them, just a red set symbol making sure you pay a good chunk of change to get hold of the fuckers. Uro is the actual posterboy for this bullshit. There is absolutely nothing interesting, fun, or flavourful about the card. It's just a pushed tournament staple mythic with notFlashback.

Just look at pic related for an excellent example of how simple it would be to add flavour to this game. If this ETB ability HAD to target a creature and its own toughness was 2 it would be a complete home run. A Rakdos cultist who might end up killing himself? That's great! But what do we have? A bland boring weaker Flametongue Kavu. I don't want this card to be competitively viable, I just want it to not be an abortion. Fuck off WotC you're shit at designing your own fucking game.

>There are a million broad answers without restrictions.
>They are always less efficient than limited answers.
>That's just balance.
Except players can't just pull more mana out of their ass to cast Murder instead of Doom Blade. The game is essentially forcing you to put yourself at a tempo disadvantage that may very well lose you the game regardless. Unless you want to take the risk, that is. But risk/reward is supposed to happen INSIDE the gameplay, not while you're sat at home flipping coins over what cards to put in your deck.

Go play some games against Tron in Modern and come back to me to talk about this "balance" of yours.

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All CC is equally annoying in all games. No one likes loss of control.

So I went white blue and locked their board under pacifisms and counters.

Game been played the same way for sooooo long. They're blue? Chump spell fodder bait into runner up card into their tech counter and finally what you wanted to play. They either let you weenie them out or waste counters on trash

Besides, green is where its at, motherfuckers.

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Are there good decks in this format that don't cost 1k+?

How about you don't play your wincon to my trap?
Make me counter something else, or if I don't, kill me with it.

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Define good. EDH is designed to go long. Insta-win deck are expensive but a decent deck that can at least get a board state going is fairly cheap. A deck with Grenzo dungeon warden would be cheap. Just find utility creature with power 2 or less and load the deck with them and cast 5-7 drops for 2... Maybe... random....

OR JUST CAST DOOMSDAY AND WIN THE GAME???

>Weren't the PTs Pioneer?
Ah right the last ones were but standard was/is in a similar place overall.

>It's because the cards themselves are super fucking boring. Dull format staples with zero flavour
Well said. This set Uro, last set Questing Beast, War of the Spark 3feri and many more. It's probably the overall powercreep, they need enough weak cards for limited but then they have to print pushed mythics for standard.

Currently I'm only drafting which is still a lot of fun. There's no EDH playgroup in my "town" but I've talked to someone playing Pauper with friends, might try to get into that. It's very affordable unlike the 300+ bucks standard lists, just not sure fun it is when most decks are very comitted to doing their own stuff as fast as possible.

The real cancer is Talrand, Sky Summoner edh decks. Theres 1 in my playgroup and it is the worst and most annoying fucking thing I've ever seen. The whole deck is basically islands and counter spells with it's only wincon being lab man which takes forever for it to actually win. The moment I see it I switch to my stax deck and just lock him out. People who build decks like that should be fucking executed.

>they need enough weak cards for limited
This is a humongous misconception that's so readily adopted that I'm baffled because EVERYONE will turn around and tell you that power cubes are great. MTGO's Legacy/Power cube is extremely popular. Why is that? It's because people enjoy playing with powerful cards in a limited environment. If a set contains tons of terrible cards and a select few overpowered cards (see: mythic rares, select rares), it creatures an extremely unsatisfying experience where the one guy who lucked out and pulled Uro probably crushed everyone with it.

This reminds me of the Eldraine prereleases. I only did one Eldraine prerelease and it was MORE than enough. I pulled absolute dogshit and scraped together some UB common/uncommon fliers hoping to punk people out. My first round opponent? Two Garruks in his deck. My second round opponent? Had an Oko. My third round opponent? Had the Royal Scions. Know who won that prerelease? A DIFFERENT guy with two Garruks in his deck.

Fuck the idea that limited is the reason cards are created weak. Cards are created weak to fill booster packs with shit that just gets discarded. Wizards are probably kicking themselves over Mystic Sanctuary being a common. I'm through with this game and have sold my collection, and you should do the same.

My area has never had a real fanbase, one gathering at a local card shop once a month at best. Still love the game. While it's a shame I don't get to play often, it means I don't have to deal with people like in this thread
>META
>We hate that card, you suck for using it!
>Hah! I can combo into a four turn victory!
Bunch of fags. Here, we play to actually have fun. One guy spent $100 on a fancy meta deck; we kicked him from the group

The dude who is bitching about standard shod have played during Eldrazi winter. Or the fucking Mirrodin block Ravager nightmare hellscape. I started in Legions and damn near quit during Mirrodin.

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>The dude who is bitching about standard shod have played during Eldrazi winter
I did.
>Or the fucking Mirrodin block Ravager nightmare hellscape
I can't imagine it being much worse than PT Eldraine. Field of the Dead v UG, with sideboard cards in the mainboard for the mirror match.

>Two Garruks in his deck. My second round opponent? Had an Oko. My third round opponent? Had the Royal Scions.
Sorry but you're talking out of your ass right now. First I don't believe it, during all the sealed events I've seen it once that someone opened a mythic twice.

Second, Booster draft has always been a commons dominated format and guess what, commons basically never reach the powerlevel of rares (not account for very old stuff). It's just how it is and has always been and that's why people like cubes, because it's limited but powerful. They can't print a cube-like set even if it would be extremely popular.

100 is dirt cheap lol, thats like commons and uncommons with a couple rares

>"we kicked him from the group"
>muh kitchen table magic
>muh evil competitive players
>muh funnnn
Lemme guess, your group also hates players who order singles.

so he had a playset of shock lands? wowzer what a try hard!

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>Sorry but you're talking out of your ass right now
I wouldn't expect anyone to believe something like that, so whatever I suppose. I dropped after the 3rd round because I was up early for work, with the average number of walkers in my opponent's decks being >1. It's pretty much the thing that finally completely turned me away from MtG. It's a shame this place is anonymous because regulars could verify it happened. Wanna know what I pulled in the one Ixalan prerelease I did? 2 Ashes of the Abhorrent.

Fucking hilarious

seems balanced based on today's standards

>with the average number of walkers in my opponent's decks being >1.
Yeah, no. Do you know how absurdly low the chance of even a third of the players opening a single planeswalkers is? Either your prereleases are back-to-back absolute absurdities, wotc fucked up the prerelease kits, half the players attending were cheating or you're just lying.

Funnily enough I got an Elspeth, drew it once in 6 rounds, and played against 2 Ashioks. Still, you have some ridiculous beliefs/expectations.

So all I have to do is make sure to not think about casting an instant or sorcery until it gets back to my turn where I can +1 Oko to turn him into a 3/3 elk? Nice.

Nah man, I meant the dude you were talking to. Eldraine is AIDS for sure but 2003 Ravager Affinity is Turbo AIDS. Pioneer has been pretty rad so far, it's been forever since I could take absolute jank to the LGS and compete.

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>not dealing with an oko before casting niv

c'mon retard, i know this is easy bait but.. c'mon

(Not the guy you replied too, but) table magic is best format. There's a group of about 7 of us and we all have 2-4 decks for whoever shows up that knight. You've got the power player with the undefeated deck and his quirky side deck, us middle men that try to one-up each other by slowly improving our weird tribles, and that one deck stacking idiot that we have to rules-lawer or he will tap all his mana twice. Everyone has the newest rule set on speed dial and the party is over when a shouting match happens.
So, yes.
>muh fun

I'm fully aware how absurd it is. There was a lot of new faces there so there may very well have been cheating going on with the Garruks, but the Oko player was a local and the Scions player didn't have a particularly good deck so I doubt he was cheating. I can't remember if it was the first or second prerelease, though having access to two Garruks by the second prerelease seems pretty unlikely imo. But then again it's not like being able to easily cheat makes me want to go play a game either. The top level scene is rife with this bullshit. PVDR should be banned for life. If not for his on-camera cheating then for his on-camera hypocrisy and angle shooting.

>Group buys 10,000 randoms and makes decks from them
>Everyone plays, has fun
>One person drops $100 on a prebuilt deck, modern cards are better
Surprise, they've made new cards better so that people spend money
>Guy refuses to play without his $100 prebuilt deck
Yeah, muh fun. Do you play to not have fun? Are you being paid to play?

What if he had fun putting together his good deck?

This, 100%. I'm the guy with the undefeated deck (green, summons hundreds of flying hexproof tokens), but it's not fun to play, so I use quirky decks instead. This is the way to really play

I miss my lovecraft deck. It That Betrays with a person matrix and eldrazi conscription

Well you're not kicking that power player just because his deck is worth more and more efficient like that guy's playgroup. I meant to ridicule those "nooo you're not allowed to buy good cards" retards like him.

>didn't even mention that group setting/agreement
Duh, idiot.

People who say they have undefeated decks just aren't playing against good enough competition.

If he had fun putting his deck together and used it to face us, cool. If he paid a store $100 to give him a deck someone else built..

Do you really not see the difference here?

>a deck someone else built

If you're talking standard, there are typically 3-4 viable standard decks. So if you're doing serious play testing this is to be expected.

Stopped playing magic because I felt like I couldn't compete without netdecking by spending time all of my money

>prebuilt
I've played against this type of player. Her parents bought her her squirrel and dragon decks. $150 for the squirrels and $300 for the dragon(which was nothing but a tron land and chomatic lantern deck with high drops). Its infuriating when people don't know there own decks.

And diamond isn't the hardest material in the known universe. It hasn't gone up against a black hole yet, right?

With how many players exist, it's almost impossible to play a limited format with an original idea and do well - the best possible paths are found fairly quickly.

Well boron nitride is harder than diamonds so like what's your point? The fact that arguments like this even exist goes to show that MtG isn't a skill based game. Would you exclude someone from your chess club because he was too good? Of course not, he's using the same pieces as you so has no real advantage, excluding him would be laughable. But there's nothing your tabletop decks can do to beat real tuned decks, so exclusion suddenly seems more reasonable. I cannot fathom why anyone would play MtG over like, anything else. Buy a fucking board game or something. Ascension is fun.

If someone is unbeatable, they should just go to a pptq, win, go to pro tour, win, and keep winning every game until they're considered the best player ever. Shouldn't be too hard if they have an unbeatable deck, right?

I do play to have fun. I like to spend money on my hobby. I have like 12 different decks for different formats made but you can't hate on a person for putting money into something they love doing when you don't.

^^ Checked. I kind of threw in towel around the time they got around to banning and unfucking the format. That was more like "Hammered Fucking Drunk, Blowing Lines and Playing Kitchen Table" Winter for me haha. Pic is a Pioneer deck I've been tuning. Total glass cannon but fun as fuck.

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My undefeated
>"green"
Deck is landfall with a touch of blue. Got an uvenwald hydra, multani, hydron crab, and an old helix pinnacle I got when it was cheap. +17 forests out by turn 5. They hate it.

just get better at playing the game. if your deck consistently loses to counter magic then it's not fast enough and would lose to other competitive decks too.

fast low drops abound in the current standard format, use them.

if all else fails, then just run Azorius so you can run Little Teferi.

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check my balance

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>I'm fully aware how absurd it is.
It's extremely absurd, like "buy 2 lottery tickets and win 50k with both". Anyways to come back to the original point, that's fine and just how limited is. On average you won't play against the busted cards and have fair games with mostly commons/uncommons. The nuts opening does happen but very rarely which makes for a decent environment. Magic as a product just doesn't function otherwise.

Any oldfag OG players? Started in 94 but haven't played much in the last 15 years.

Also cube is fundamentally the same. It's just extremely high powerlevel so instead of weak vs weak it's busted vs busted, and even then the super busted deck that easily shits on others exists if people pass you the cards.

Undefeated. Not unbeatable. MTG has an answer to everything. Its about building a deck with the least likely possibility to draw shit and the highest possibility to win. I've only played my undefeated about 6 games and that's because everyone hates it. I find that to be just as impressive.

My point is it doesn't mean anything. It just means it hasn't met it's counter. It's just annoying how every meta devolves into 3 archetypes in standard each season, and that older formats are super expensive to jump into competitively if you haven't kept up with collecting.

That's cause standard sucks. Go edh.

I only really enjoy tournament format play and they don't have those that I've seen.

All tournaments will always suck because nothing matter but the win. Its not about weather you win or lose, its about how closes you can get to breaking the rules.

Everything would be better if we just removed blue from the game.

There's literally nothing wrong with netdecking. If you complain about it you're a massive dunce with a stupid mindset.

It's all about winning, yes. That's all I really enjoyed doing. The player base is mostly socially awkward or simply toxic retards. I've only ever cared about breaking formats.