Wizard here. I'd like to have sex some day. How do you find someone willing to have sex with you?

Don't you think cops would realize that people use this as a test and just show a tit to get the conviction and the promotion?
But also I'm really only interested in sex if there's some sort of mutual attraction. If she doesn't even want to be there I may as well just masturbate.
Probably around 4-5. I'm not hideously deformed or anything, but I'm also nothing special to look at.

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Have a shower, exercise and be yourself!
Also watch this:
youtube.com/watch?v=coJjo3NmAEI

Be lovable.

Grindr

I shower at least once a day. Also been getting exercise, lost some weight, and gotten much better endurance for hiking and skiing this season. I guess I'm still not good enough though.
How?

That looks like a lucrative way to get raped and/or murdered by some incel.

1. Dating sites
2. Go out to clubs, talk to people, dance if you're into that, sing karaoke.
3. Find and pay an escort
4. Do whatever your hobby is with other people. Eventually you'll meet someone you like who maybe likes you too and shares your interests. Keep in mind that if your hobby is more of a guy thing, this will be more difficult.
5. Go to social events, birthday parties, weddings, holiday parties. Keep in mind that being invited to these dictates you be social. If you can't do this, consider one of the above options.

Part 2:
1. Once you find someone you like, invite them to spend more time with you. This could be anything, drinks, dinner, going out to do whatever your hobby is, taking her to an event you've been invited to. Continue spending time with them. Gradually become more romantic as time naturally allows
2. If you have selected the escort option, pay her
3. If you are seeking a one night stand, ask her if she wants to go back to your place

Sex is TOTALLY overrated, you're Ok Mr. Wizard! just make sure that on your way to archwizardry you dont become a fagg for sex starvation. Cast a spell for me old man!

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Aim low? Just remember, one and done.

Try using a long black trenchcoat. Wear large amounts of cologne to cover your stench... Cuz it's like a hunt. The woman is like a wild gazelle that you are trying to stuff in your trunk and take home to sex up.

So you’re not ugly, you mentioned earlier that you can hold a conversation with a lady and “casually touch them on the arm”, this is a good move, next time you touch them and they don’t move watch their reaction, sometimes they’re worried about seeming rude by moving their arm away but sometimes they’re into it, if they’re into it invite them to drinks or dinner, you might have sex after the first date or the hundredth, but so so long as you can get women to talk with you, you stand a chance of having sex

Sometimes rape just sounds easier.

>>actual good advice on /b

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I saw this in a porno once. First you're gonna want to get a pizza box and cut a hole in the hinge end of the box. Shove your sick in it and go knock on the girls door. When her father answers, run.

tinder + swiping right on the ugliest bitches you can find

If you are already masturbating, then you are getting about the same experience. Why go further?

What is video evidence? It's no wonder that you're a permavirg. I didn't get my dick wet until I was 23 because I was a scared little bitch like you. Unlike you I had multiple females down to fuck I just didn't know how to reciprocate. I finally found a lonely fatty to fuck and it was on like donkey kong from there. Your only hope is to hit a bar after midnight and find the ugliest lady staring you down and take her to a motel6.
Or rent a hooker. Fucking pussy. Do it.

Thanks for the detailed info.
Do people on dating sites go for average looking men? Seems like everything there is about looks.
Are there clubs where you can actually talk to people? I used to try going to clubs in my 20s, and it was always so loud that you couldn't even talk to the person next to you without screaming.
Hobbies and social events are good. I'm into hiking and skiing and have met some fun people through that. I've also gotten much better at socializing at things like parties. I'm still an introvert so parties slowly drain my batteries, but I'm able to enjoy myself and have some fun conversations.
I have no idea how to become more romantic though. Like I've been out a women one on one several times, we talk, have a good time, but I don't know how to escalate so nothing ever comes of it.
Hocus pocus presto changeo, you are now a newt!
I haven't had any better luck with ugly fat women. I'm still unsure how to flirt and escalate. Plus if I'm not actually attracted to them it sees like I'm doing both of us a disservice.

Are these threads even real? Is it really that hard for some people to find a partner?

Russian bots. Blame it on Trump. Sad.

>so long as you can get women to talk with you, you stand a chance of having sex
I hope you're right user. I actually find women pretty easy to talk to. Easier than men even. Women love to talk.
Didn't Lonely Island sing about this trick?
Does this actually work? Can anyone here confirm? I've been thinking of trying tinder but I'm worried that nobody will ever match with me and it'll just make me feel worse.
100% real. I'm 34 and the closest I've come to sex is when a girl held my hand over a decade ago.

Yeah it's crazy to think about isn't it? Can you believe that people who aren't neurotypical would come to a site like this? I mean what are they even doing on the internet at all?

It's called a hooker user

>shit guys, they're on to us
It's true user. I'm only posting this thread because I know it will somehow result in you supporting Putin and Trump. Please still vote Trump though. I worked hard on making this thread. It's the least you can do.

>Thanks for the detailed info.

You're welcome user
>Do people on dating sites go for average looking men? Seems like everything there is about looks.

They're a shit show honestly. Average looking girls with high standards, but you never know what you're going to find.
>Are there clubs where you can actually talk to people? I used to try going to clubs in my 20s, and it was always so loud that you couldn't even talk to the person next to you without screaming.

Yeah, you just gotta find them. Post your area and I'll do research for you
>Hobbies and social events are good. I'm into hiking and skiing and have met some fun people through that.
Skiing and hiking are great hobbies to meet someone. When you're skiing, try finding a spot where a bunch of people are sitting around on the mountain and chilling in the snow, or hang out in the ski lodge/bar/restaurant.
>I have no idea how to become more romantic though. Like I've been out a women one on one several times, we talk, have a good time, but I don't know how to escalate so nothing ever comes of it.

There's no textbook answer. Maybe tell her your really like her, or do something cheesy like buy her flowers or take her stargazing, or maybe just go in for a kiss when the moment seems appropriate and see what happens

>looks like it's not that easy

Go to leolist kr craigslist or whatever bs and text them when and where. It's that easy you moron.

People will match with you on tinder. Your profile might be shown to a thousand girls, but it will match eventually. That being said, I have never know anyone to have had a good experience on any dating app or service. You will either get invertebrate tier low lifes or people think facebook friends are the same as real ones. But i’m not working with a good data set, they didn’t take it seriously themselves (Nazi memorabilia in the profile pic type stuff) and I live in a quite city.

The physical act of sex isn't all that important to me by itself. It's about finding someone who's actually interested in being with me. If she doesn't even want to be there then what's the point?
I'm in Denver, hence the skiing. Good for meeting people, but yeah I have no clue how to escalate. I'm not good at reading signs, at least not in the moment. There have been a few times over the years where I realized maybe a few days later "oh shit, she was hitting on me. i should have done something" but by then the moment has passed and it's too late.
I don't know that I've ever been in a moment where a kiss is appropriate though. But I honestly don't really know what moments are appropriate. All I have to go on are movies.
Sex isn't worth going to jail for. But even if it were, I don't think I'd even be able to enjoy it with an escort.

Just hire a hooker... unless you are in Dumbfuckistan aka US.

Seriously, you stupid fucks legalized weed and can't get arsed enought to regulated prostitution?

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Aw hell yeah user. I could have told you my favorite more relaxed clubs in Colorado springs, but let me check Denver for you, I have some friends more familiar with that area

And the slopes are awesome there, I was a snowboarder when I was there though.

Do you just swipe everyone to maximize the chance of a match, or what? I've heard that the algorithms catch on to that shit and stop showing you to anyone.
I am in Dumbfuckistan. The land of freedumb. We're so free that consensual sex between adults will land you in prison for years if any money changes hands. Unless you film it and sell the video on the internet, that is. Then it's perfectly fine and part of a booming legal business. USA is completely fucked in the head.
Nice! We got some good snow this weekend. Heading up to Winter Park tomorrow. Should be a blast.

Blue Ice
Howl at the Moon
Nocturne
Tryst Lounge
Ophelia's electric soapbox

Try one every week or something. If you don't meet anyone at least you'll have fun. The fever nightlife scene is one of the best in the country from what I hear.

And have fun shredding Winter Park!

Prostitutes will save your life if you let them.

go to prison

Thanks for the list. I'll have to try some of those.
Is it weird to go to that sort of thing alone? I don't really know anyone into the nightclub scene. Haven't gone to any in quite a few years.

Then fucking hire a hooker, pay extra and film it. Just tell her it's to prevent legal bullshittery and kikery.

Or better yet, ask her to film it. Or might as well fuck reason and just straight up fuck her pooper, odds are nobody gives a shit.

Just wrap really good your junk and fuck off if you got any bad feeling at all.

Yes, they will catch and list you off as a non serious user (like my friends, probably). They have very advanced, ever-changing algorithms beyond the knowledge of the people who programmed them. Maybe if you “do it right” it will work out for you, but I think this user nailed it: Escalation is that hardest part. I think a lot of that comes from screening the target ahead of time to find one adminuble to escalation. As in there is nothing you can do to help escalation except placing your bets right, which is a skill in and of itself. At least I think that’s what a lot of PUAs do.
Also, don’t let your memory fool you. If there was something you would have noticed it at the time or shortly there after, or you would never notice it at all unless someone straight up tells you.

Nothing wrong with going alone.

But if you don't meet a girl on the slopes, maybe made a guy friend, ask him if he wants to go to the club with you, tell him you're trying to meet a girl and need a wingman

But I've gone alone, nothing wrong with going alone.

First and foremost, get out and go to places where you can meet and talk. Woman are not special. Pick one that appeals to you. Start chatting. If you have common ground carry on. Avoid all the player advice. There is no magic formula. It's all stats. Don't get put off and offended by a no. Chat to 10 woman. If you get 10 negative answers, chat to 10 more. You'll get a yes. Woman are attracted to confidence. Confidence takes practice. There are no soulmates that you can miss. Just put yourself out there and try until you're in the pink.

>If there was something you would have noticed it at the time or shortly there after
Don't underestimate my ineptitude at reading signals.
>be me, around a decade ago
>out barhopping with friends
>female friend starts holding my hand as we walk to the next bar
>tells me she's feeling horny
>i have no idea what this means or what to do, so i do nothing
>we get to the next bar and never speak of it again
Several days later, I realize what she was doing and that I could have easily gotten laid that night. But it sure as hell didn't occur to me at the time.

Not really sure that is an issue, the better question would be; Have you scored?

OP is asking about fucking some roasties, not about going to clubs.

>Avoid all the player advice
>Just put yourself out there and try
Has that fucking new Coronavirus made everybody drooling retards overnight?

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Yeah. Kind of like said, just talk to girls, ask if you can buy them a drink. Some will say no. One of my favorite clubs has an air hockey table, so I like to challenge girls to air hockey there, winner buys drinks or something like that. Good way to start a conversation. Pool tables are more common though I suppose.

If it's a dancing club, ask her to dance. Im not the dancing type myself though.

Picking out songs together on a jukebox if they have one.

Another one of my favorite clubs has a second floor with a fire pit on the balcony, that was a nice place to just sit and talk to people.

Oh, I like the balcony fire pit idea. That sounds nice. I've got to find a place with something like that.

If you’re an introvert, shy, have a bit of Aspergers or think you have autism your best chance at this point is getting fit, finding and paying for a prostitute and or approaching women.

You’re not going to get shit if you don’t ask for it. Chances are that you don’t look like a male model and don’t have the body of a Greek god. You have to put in the work and ask women out in hopes of it leading to sex.

Have you seen the guy here who is super fit and also can't get laid? I think he's 36. I'm working on improving my fitness and making good progress, but I'm sure as hell no male model.
I have no idea if I have aspergers or autism or anything else on that beautiful spectrum. I've managed to do reasonably well in life by many metrics, but I certainly have no fucking clue what I'm doing when it comes to relationships. I don't know if getting a diagnosis would help with anything at this point in my life either. It would either be
A) Nope, you're completely normal and have no mental disorders. Everything wrong with your life is entirely your fault.
B) Yep, you're fucked in the head. Good luck, you'll need it.
Neither one seems like it would really help me at this point.

>Be friend of user in college
>Vaccinated as child, moderately autistic (visit disability resources autistic, not total sperg)
>smart and handsome when not being autistic
>doing group project with an artsy brunette type, kinda cute
>she asks me to go new star wars movie, late night viewing, just the two of us
>No, I don’t like star wars
>after class, professor comes up to me and tell me the I was just asked out on a date
>huh
>feel kinda bad about it the next day, ask user if it was true
>user says yes, but it’s okay, the new star wars is bad, you really wouldn’t have liked it.
You must be borderline for it to take several days. I’m bad a signals too, but if I catch them, it will be a minute or two after they happen at the latest, sometimes still enough time to salvage the situation. Whenever I think I remember one from a day or two ago, I will always realize that it was just an normal action I overthought. It might have just been the alcohol talking in your case, for example.

cityxguide dot com

Women aren’t looking for the body of greek god. They just want broad shoulders and feel-able muscles. The rest of it is height, face, and race.
I would say they also want someone who is also stronger than they are, but that will always be true unless you have muscular dystrophy and are going after an olympic power lifter.

being social, relationships, flirting are all skills, and they take practice, trial and error and learning.
if you keep trying, and keep learning from your mistakes, you will improve.
you have to face the fear of rejection/humiliation, and keep trying and improving.
even if it takes a year before you have a girl, it will be worth it

I don't know user. I guess it's also possible that no woman has ever been interested in me whatsoever for my entire life, and any times I might have thought otherwise are just the delusions of a sex starved maniac. Come to think of it that's probably the most likely possibility.
How much height are we talking? I'm 5'9'' which I've heard makes me king of the manlets. Is that good enough? Face is alright. I'm white as fuck though, so I guess at least I've got that going for me.

you probably knew, but second guessed it that she might have meant something else, and then you ignored it.
one thing with women, don't second guess it, don't overthink it, just accept it and try your luck, be a bit cheeky.
if you think they like you, then accept it and go along with it.

Sounds like OP’s been trying for a decade.

fat chick. worked for me 3 years ago, kinda wish I still had my arcane powers though..

Find a shy, timid, inexperienced, socially awkward girl with no friends and very little dating experience.
Then pump that pussy.

What are these panties called??? OMG

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So far it's taken 34 years. If I truly believed that within just one single measly year I'd be able to find someone, I'd be ecstatic. I'm trying to figure this shit out, but I've also got a career and the rest of life to juggle at the same time. I missed out on learning how to be normal back in school when everyone else figured it out.

How would you find someone like that? She's probably at home avoiding people.

do some good quality pushups every day and it will build your confidence in your own strength.
they will sense your confidence, it will help somewhat.
your height is fine, stop thinking about it, stop thinking about what other people think about you. it will help.
this thread has a lot of good advice and suggestions in it, is a good way to start.
#4 of his list is what i would recommend.
find a new hobby/activity that is social with men and women, and go to at least once a week, every week.
be consistent, same time, same place, become good at it.
force yourself to talk to the people there.
start with "hi", ask questions when you need to, offer suggestions/help when you can.
spend more time with the ones you get along with, be brave when it comes to women, talk to them if you want to, just say "hi" and smile.
if you find one you like you seems to like you, in that she smiles at you regularly, holds eye contact, enjoys chatting with you, then find a way to spend more time with her, talk with her, invite her to lunch/coffee/walk in the park to talk more.
if you feel things are going well, and you both enjoy talking, make it clear to her that you like her, without delay. smile, hold eye contact for longer than you would someone else, just a few seconds more.
share little by little, ask her about herself, listen, tell a little about yourself, and so on. back and forth. so it is always balanced.
if things become quiet and you're both looking at each other, and she looks at your lips, that means she wants to kiss you. so move in slowly and kiss her.

hey man, i lost my wizard powers within a year of obtaining them.
i know exactly how you feel.
i had to teach myself everything, and learn the hard and very long way.
there were no tricks, no game theory, no chatup lines, no pick up gimmicks.
primarily it is making yourself feel confident about yourself in any way, and facing your fears, and expanding your horizons beyond your normal safety limits.
secondarily, and perhaps more importantly, it is about exposure to enough females, and spending time with them, talking to them really about anything, learning by trial and error.
if you talk to women without the aim of having sex with them, or them being your girlfriend, you will improve your ability to talk with them. just by being able to hold a good conversation and working out what works/doesn't work when talking with them.
find somewhere you can go every single week for a few hours at least, where you can become a regular, and there is a mix of men/women around your age, well even 25-40 is fine, young professionals. force yourself to go.
within a few weeks you will start to become comfortable there, and you will chat more, and open up.
i can explain more

you still here?

This bro knows what's up. OP, adopt this attitude. I can confirm - I came to all the same conclusions, and did the same.

I was married for 13 years, and after my divorce I had no idea how to meet women (I never did know, and the woman I married I was lucky to meet without effort). I had to start learning at 45 years of age.

It can be done. I've fucked several attractive, young grils now, as young as 20.

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Thanks, that all sounds good. First paragraph or so isn't too hard. I've gotten much better at meeting people over the last few years. Comes much more naturally now.
After that it gets much harder. I don't know how to let someone know I like her without being weird, awkward, or creepy. And then after that, yikes, no clue what to do. I can't even imagine myself going in for a kiss. That just seems so foreign and terrifying. And I'm sure that discomfort would come through and creep her out.
Congrats on figuring this shit out. We both obviously know how hard it is.
I'm working on being more social, but like I've said I actually do reasonably well at this regard now. Just talking with women comes fairly easily. I hope I can somehow move beyond that though, but it seems like an insurmountable wall in my development.
sure am

Certain ladies have been known to engage in carnal relations in return for financial remuneration.

>hire a whore
>wtf you expect me to fuck you? just give me my $1500 incel

Jesus christ.

>I don't know how to let someone know I like her without being weird, awkward, or creepy.
You're being too hard on yourself, bro. Grils know it's tough, and they're forgiving. If you've done everything else right up to that point, they won't care if you're awkward when you make the move. Just do it.

And if you fail miserably the first time, it's no matter. You'll feel a rush from it. And the desire to feel that rush again will drive you on next time, and you'll improve. Trust me.

>If you've done everything else right up to that point
That's a pretty tall order, but point taken. I hope you're right and they are a bit forgiving of awkwardness. I don't know how normal people are able to do this and make it look so easy and natural.

alright, i'll explain a bit more then.
reminder that almost all of this came from making a fool of myself and living horribly awkward situations, so i am trying to give you a slight shortcut. remember though that facing awkwardness, facing humiliation, and facing rejection, is how you must go in order to reach the goal.
risking feeling awkward/embarrassed in front of a girl you like may result in you having that girl as your girlfriend, instead of just just another girl you briefly met.
it can also result in her not being your girlfriend, but that is also part of the risk. you have a 0% chance if you don't try.
For example, you are chatting with a girl, you like her, you like chatting with her, she makes you feel good, she's smiling and enjoying the conversation.
You have the thought in the back of your mind "i'd like to see her again". You have to listen to that thought and not hestitate, it makes it easier if you say her name, and then you have time to suggest meeting again, doing anything.
"hey, jane, I really like chatting with you, how about a cup of coffee/lunch/walk in the park/go for a drink after this/tomorrow/this afternoon/evening".
then you have risked, and it is up to her.
either she accepts, she says not right now but another time yes, or says no, then be cool about it.
it can also be asking for her number and giving yours, if time is tight.
meeting in person again is always the best though.
then you are meeting again, you spend more time with her, you chat, you do stuff, activities, observe things going on and talk about them, share memories, ideas, experiences.
see how it goes.
if it goes well, arrange another meet up straight away, for later that week.

Taller than they are, even with heels. I think 5’9” is good. Most girls are under 5’6”, so you’d be taller than them even when they wear 3 inch heels.
But the chin and the forehead are the most defining face features. Your chin should be 2.25 times as long as your upper lip and your forehead should take up about a third of your face. Your eyes should divide your head in the horizontal about 50/50.

If you read some PUA material, their rule zero is never be attached to any girl and never be desperate to be with a girl. Girls are like predators, they smell fear.

this guy is right when i asked rachel out, a girl i'd liked for a while and spoken with, and then she said she had a boyfriend, i didn't feel awful, instead i felt elated, because i'd had the guts to do it.
the more times you chance your arm, the easier it will become.
also, that's why it is good to ask a girl out as soon as you realise you like her, because then you aren't building up so much hope, you've only known her a short time.
if you are rejected, and in a decent way, be cool about it. be polite and say "ah well".
then spend less energy on that girl, without being a dick, and talk with more girls.
some girls can become your friends, and they can introduce you to their friends, but don't hang around a girl that you still have feelings for, it's dishonest and will make you miserable and bitter, not to mention internally confused.

also, save this thread and reread it once every week or so.
it won't make total sense at the moment, but as you begin to apply it, piece by piece, whatever sounds like good advice, then the rest will start to make more sense.
over the months or longer, you'll realise what works and what doesn't for you.
the key is perserverence, routine and doing without overthinking things too much.
treat social/flirting/relationship skills as practical skills, the same with learning a foreign language, you have to use it and make mistakes, and use it regularly for it to become solid in your brain, and for you to become better at it.
flirting/relationships is a foreign language for you, so you have to learn it by trial and error and lots of practice.
flirting is really hard to describe, it is about taking small risks, being a bit cheeky and finding the right moments to be cheeky in without going too far, and escalating little by little whenever there is an opportunity and you feel like it.
it becomes clearer with practice and time.

Does that sort of thing really somehow get across that you're interested in her as a romantic partner? I've done very similar things in the past, without any romantic interest whatsoever. I've made friends by doing this.
Is it just subtle differences in what you say or how you act?
Like is there a significant difference between "X was a lot of fun, we should do Y" and "i really liked doing X with you. we should do Y"
But my key question is what you do differently when trying to form a romantic relationship vs trying to form a platonic relationship.
Glad that the height is ok, maybe. I hear lots of conflicting information on that. I don't really have any control over my chin to lip ratio or anything else, so I hope what I've got is good enough.

It's probably a lot easier to be rejected if she has a boyfriend. That means there was no real possibility anyway. Much harder if she just doesn't like you. Even harder if you'll still see her frequently after that. I don't realize I might be into someone until I've seen them and talked to them a number of times, which usually happens when we're part of some shared group. So if I try something and she rejects me it's going to be permanently awkward in that group.
Good call, there's lots of good info here. I hope I manage to figure this shit out. I'm not getting any younger. Wtf am I doing with my life?

it is highly important that you stop worrying about your height/face/looks/etc etc etc etc. if you are thinking about that, you will lose confidence, be more anxious, and not be able to relax enough to chat, flirt, ask a girl out properly.
forget all of that stuff, or it will kill your self esteem. it's in your head, so kick it out of your head. stop thinking about what other people might or might not be thinking about you. if you can do that, even part way, you'll be a big step ahead.
see about flirting.
making slightly cheeky/racy jokey comments in a slightly sexual way, is part of flirting.
also a look in her eyes, a smile, holding her gaze just a little longer than is normally comfortable.
touching her arm when you guide her through a door, or her lower back.
moving her hair out of the front of her face, if you have spent some time together and feel a bit more comfortable.
all of this will feel a bit awkward at first, that's just because you haven't done it before.
it's like learning a new sport, you feel awkward and clumsy and stupid at first, and don't see the point.
after a few sessions, it begins to slot into place, and you feel more relaxed, more natural.

yes, there is a difference, in answer to your question "i really enjoyed tonight" is fine, "I liked seeing/chatting with/having dinner with you today" is very good too, it is personal, you are speaking more from the heart, more directly.
if you say "skating was fun", it is a bit neutral, like you could have been doing it with anyone. so for the beginning, it is better to make it personal.

There are ways to carry your face to compensate for some things. The same way women will adjust their posture to make their tits/ass look bigger. None of them are worth it, frankly, and some can cause serious harm (like clenching your jaw can damage your gums). The only thing I would do is not do what my aforementioned autistic friend would do and make weird sperg faces. Just a relaxed look mixed with a bit of a power pose or something. More meaningfully, knowing these things can help you adjust how you present yourself. If you have a small forehead, for example, you can wear a hat more often (not all the time).

i saw rachel plenty of times after that. i still chatted with her. it was maybe easier like that too, and she did it in a nice way. but finally summoning the courage was important, and either way i had tried.
once you've tried, you can move on, either with the girl, or with other girls.
as long as you are cool about it, and return to the same as it was before, more or less, either a professional distance, and never mention it again, be polite and not passive aggressive, then it is fine. that's if you see them regularly anyway.
it won't be permanently awkward unless you or she lets it be. it's part of life dude, everyone else does it without thinking about it.
as long as you are cool about it, then most girls won't be bothered by it.
life isn't easy man, better to learn about it now and make a good effort than leave it another 5 or 10 years i can assure you

Thanks everyone for the help. I'm going to call it a night. Lots of good stuff here. Hope I'll be able to find someone somehow

you have to improve yourself and make yourself into someone worth sharing that with, then it just kinda comes to you.

There are traits that matter in a person, and having that traits makes you desirable to those that matter. Empathy, understanding, acceptance, a broadened world view, intelligence, kindness, thoughtfulness, patience

these are all qualities that I've come to revere in romance. People will "convince' you that things like sports cars and cool sunglasses will get you laid, and hey, they might, but that's a very superficial attraction. I'm guessing you want something a little more meaningful; authentic

Negging is another form of flirting that can be more generalized, like a back handed complement. You can “practice” it in other situations, just don’t take it too far.

‘nite OP

what will really help you is to face some fears you have, one by one, little by little.
one fear i had always had was dancing.
by some good fortune and then afterwards my own decision, i started dancing in public, at a few discos and such. i decided not to care what other people thought of me, or my weird inexperienced dancing.
almost immediately, i had the interest of a girl at one place. of course, i didn't understand it, didn't understand she was flirting with me, and messed it up haha, yeah, and didn't fully realise it until some time afterwards.
but i was improving at dancing, and i met other girls.
i'm no professional dancer, never took any classes, mostly learned from either girls giving me a bit of instruction, or tips, or by watching other people and copying, then adapting, improvising, and doing what i felt like.
i didn't enjoy it at first, but after a while i began to be able to enjoy it.
what would make your life easier, is if you went to some dancing classes, and forced yourself to keep going.
you might feel you are the biggest fool on the planet, your face flush red, your body temperature go up, start sweating, and maybe that will happen for a few weeks of classes.
but eventually you will begin to feel more relaxed, more yourself, and in time, you will enjoy it, and you will become better.
by doing that, you are stepping out of your safe zone, going beyond and doing something new.
doing something new is what you need to do in order to break the cycle and face your fears.
whether it is dancing or something else.
dancing though helps a lot, because you will be able to dance around girls, or with girls, and that's a way to start talking with them

yeah, negging is hard, but it does work.
took me ages to figure it out.
also making neutral comments can work, in a similar way. you mention something she's wearing "is that a new dress?", then she asks for your approval, "yes, do you like it?" and the back and forth is there.

night man, hope you stuck around for my other posts. good luck

Some people seem to do things like this so effortlessly, it almost seems instinctual. Well it is instinctual, it’s just they subtlety refined their instincts over overtime. You don’t need to consciously thing about something to become good at it, your body will notice and correctly little mistakes. But it certainly helps to have a theoretical understanding of these things.

yup, still have the thread open in case there's more wisdom later. thanks. night

Negging is about changing the power level of the parties involved more than attraction or interest. Like hitting some nerve and then playing it off as a good thing. What has always foiled my attempts at it is when they either have low self esteem or have never been insulted before in any way and so have no idea how to take the slightest bit of criticism. But maybe those people should have been avoided in the first place.

often the ones who find it easy started when they were very young, and having done it all their life, they don't feel self conscious about it, and feel very comfortable doing it.
if you aren't used to using your body in front of other people, it can be difficult at first. comes with practice, like everything.
also, going to dance classes is a good way to meet people.
you go regularly, every week, are interacting with them and learning something new, sharing experiences.

you can try a small one with someone, if they don't take it well, don't do it any more with them and be more consistently positive towards them in a realistic way. everyone's different

It’s just it seems like they don’t thing about it, like they never sat down and learned about what they were doing and how to do it better but just did it until they somehow got good. Practice is a strange thing.

I tried out one of the more famous lines once: “So you don’t talk much? Good, I like a quiet girl” because the conversation hit a lull and I had been mostly carrying it. At first she apologized profusely, as if to make up for he muteness. I insisted that, no, it was alright and it was very cute. Then she got angry and seemed to deny that she had even been quite in the first place. It was a very strange contradiction, I left after that.

some people are naturally attuned to movements, or public speaking, or acting, etc etc etc.
then there are the others who have done it on and off since they were 4, or their parents did it.
like girls knowing how to dance to pop tunes.
while you were playing soldiers or running around in a forest or something, they were in their bedroom with their friends with music on, spending days making up dance moves and constantly checking each other, giving advice, suggestions etc.
they were training themselves to dance, one way or another.
after that it was much easier for them to dance in front of others, because they'd done it with their friends a ton.
you really have to identify those things you've always avoided, or that you feel shy about, or unconfident, and face those fears.
one at a time, like i said.
it doesn't have to be dancing, that's just something i overcame and ended up enjoying. it is fun, but only if you stop thinking what other people are thinking about you.
dancing isn't easy, or you wouldn't have professional dancers.
you don't have world famous professional envelope lickers, because it is a pretty standard thing to do.
you could also try kareoke singing, to build your confidence and face some of your fears.
or public speaking.

haha
well, that sounds fine, but it depends on the way you delivered it, the situation, how well you knew her, and a big point is the girl herself.
sometimes things don't work, don't worry about it, and don't blame it on yourself if you think you've done nothing wrong.
just move on, talk with other girls.
honestly, i would avoid "lines", and other fixed pickup stuff. it is better to talk with them and be more honest in your communication.
she was maybe a bit awkward herself, if she apologised so much, and then felt bad that you had made her feel awkward, and didn't know how to react. who knows, it isn't important.
in that situation, if she starts apologising, say hey don't worry i was just kidding, and change the subject immediately.

changing the subject without seeming panicked, just doing it fluidly, "what kind of music do you like?", keeps the conversation positive and moving along, it also shows interest in her and most often defuses anything that went on before.
also, if she is being quiet, you should actively include her in the conversation by asking her questions anyway.
ask a girl about herself, and listen, and show that you are listening and have been listening. women like that. you should share something about yourself too, on a similar level to whatever she has just shared, but don't talk as much as she does.
tit for tat, she shares something, you do. and so on.
that is how you form a bond.
eventually, whether it be after a day, a week or a month, you will have the opportunity to share something with her that you don't normally share with people, or maybe have never shared.
that's the risk taking part. she might do it effortlessly, and you'll marvel at how open she is, and it will feel impossible for you to do the same, but if you don't open up an equal amount, and keep things balanced, if you don't give as well as receive, then the relationship won't move any deeper.
it could be a story from your childhood, a fear you have, a private thought, but it will build a trust between you. not because it is a secret, but because you have shared something of yourself with her.
that's how it works.
when you sense those moments, you have to decide to risk, however small that risk is.
don't blurt out you love her on the first date, don't tell her about how you always wanted to kill a bunny in front of your biologially teacher, just small things, on the same scale as whatever she shared.
it is always that back and forth. with conversation, with flirting, with dancing, with kissing, with everything.
one way or another, it should be balanced.

I’ve always been surprised how people can become good at something “by accident.” I guess that’s how.

She was a 19 yo bookish college student, I bet she had neither received a real complement nor insult from someone she didn’t already know. Frankly it sounds like too much honesty was my problem. I should have been more “polite” and lie to make her feel better instead of doubling down on the truth.

yes, some people are sensitive. that isn't a bad thing, you can meet really special people who are sensitive, or some who aren't.
in her case, sounds like she was sensitive, and you could have said "that was a bad joke, forget it" and change the subject to something positive.
"what was the last book you read?"
"if you could visit anywhere in the world, where would it be?"
those kind of different questions, that probe a bit into her without being too personal. you learn something about her, then she asks you.
keep it positive in general.
keep a conversation moving, be somewhat of a conductor. that doesn't mean rush her answers. you should be paying attention, actively listening to her answers.
if she tells you about a book, you can say something you might know about it, or ask a followup question about a part she said.
or if not, she will ask you how about you, in which case you give a positive answer, i last read bla bla, it was good, i really liked one of the characters in it because -.
but talk for a briefer time than she did usually.
be confident in your answer, don't put yourself down, don't speak negatively about other people.

I understand that you want to keep up the pace of conversation but there is only so much you can ask without sounding noisy. And killing it with “that was a bad joke, forget it” would be even worse. And an out of the blue question like that couldn’t have been any better than a canned neg, especially not on a normal girl.

it takes practice, like i said.
and it will feel awkward, and some things will fall flat. you can only learn by trial and error.
you'll learn faster if you can find a way to speak to lots of people regularly who you don't work with and aren't massively attached to.
conversation really is an art.
she wasn't the best at it, and neither were you. but it probably could have been salvaged.
i wouldn't know how unless i was in it, and even then it wouldn't be certain.
some people need more pushing to converse, some shy girls might not talk much until after quite some time.
you could spend time with someone by doing stuff together with them, walking, watching a film, doing an activity, having a meal and so on. even without much talking, you can learn about each other and share experiences.
there is some testing the water involved with everyone.

So there is nothing you can consciously learn to improve on it faster than simple trial and error? As I see the case study, there is nothing I could have done aside from lie and feign interest in the hopes of keeping her engaged. I would never do that, just as she would never take kindly to a neg.

Keep in mind there are other chicks who feel like you do, most of them ugly and fat like yourself.
Find those ones, fuck them, then build enough confidence to fuck better looking people.
It's not that hard actually

OP is neither fat nor ugly, he just reads people about as well as I read latin.

if you aren't interested in sensitive people or her type, then there was no point in pursuing her, as you say.
seeing how people react to things can tell you whether you want to continue with them, that's the point.
if it was me, i would have said something else and continued the conversation. maybe i wouldn't say the right thing either, who knows.
you can consciously learn to improve on everything, trial and error shouldn't be entirely random trial, it is trial, error, understand what happened, and learn from it for the next time.
in general, if you want to be social, be positive. people don't like negative people.

‘Hot work, my lord.’

Ord looked down. The engineer in charge looked up, mopping at his face with a grimy handkerchief. The man’s name was… Tahj, Ord thought. A native of Low Town, normally responsible for the maintenance and repair of the access roads that led through the foundations of the city.

‘My body temperature is chemically regulated,’ Ord said.

Tahj nodded, as if he’d heard similar statements before. He continued to wipe at his face. ‘The air settles in these streets something awful. Gets stifling in the lower parts of the city. You wouldn’t know about that, I expect.’

‘No. I am only just arrived.’

Tahj sniffed, leaned over and spat. ‘Still… hot work.’

Ord looked at him. ‘Did you require something?’ Humans were usually in awe of his kind. Tahj didn’t seem the sort to be impressed with anything, however. It was somewhat annoying.

“Nope. Just passing time.’ Tahj wiped at his neck and retrieved a flask from his coveralls. He took a quick slug and offered it to Ord. ‘Care for a nip?’

‘I do not… nip.’

‘No?’

‘No.’

Tahj nodded again. ‘Don’t think I could do without a bit of a drink.’ He took another pull on the flask, as if for emphasis.

‘No?’ Ord asked, without quite understanding why.

‘Nope.’

They stood in silence, for a time. Tahj seemed in no hurry to go anywhere. Ord stared at the engineer, trying to fathom a method of breaking this particular siege. He decided a change of strategy might prove effective. ‘Is work progressing satisfactorily?’

Tahj took a leisurely glance at the bulwarks. He took another sip from the flask. ‘I expect so,’ he said eventually. ‘Yours?”

Ord found himself nodding. ‘Yes.’

‘That’s good.’

Ord nodded again. He was finding the rhythm of it now. It was not a transfer of information, but simply noise for the sake of noise. He could not see the purpose of it, but he would not be found wanting.

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yep
smalltalk is yet another necessary skill.
it seems pointless, but it breaches the ground in order to find deeper conversation thereafter.

no, these are stuck up cunts with a hugely over-inflated self-worth due to beta faggots enabling and pandering to them.

don't ever give attention, time or money to cunty women like this. ever. these are not escorts. these are spoiled, lazy, huge ego cunts.

go find a normal hooker. most actual prostitutes are actually very down to earth and cool and nice people.
most also don't have that cunty stuck-up attitude either. if a hooker acts like that, she will quickly get that bullshit corrected with violence. and this isn't me being some edgelord faggot, simply stating facts.

if a hooker acts cunty and stuck-up and holier-than-thou with clients, guaranteed that at least 3 out of 10 men will at the very least, slap her.
hookers know they are whores. it is literally their job to fuck you for money or get on their knees. they stroll the streets looking for guys to pick them up and pay them cash for access to their holes.

go get a regular actual hooker. stay away from any cunty, bitchy, self-righteous females.
have fun. every city or decent sized town has areas where hookers operate.