What has become of doll threads? Doll owners thrown in jail? Left us for a site that isn't full of shit logs...

This accurately describes my dating life

The fact that these dolls look like underage girls creep me out.

Put it in your will or something.

>My loli doll in the back of my closet goes to the curb.

You can order them to look like whatever age you prefer.

That's the point of those dolls
Kek

I'm just lazy to post. And then there's work.

Until dolls become as common as other ona holes there will always be doll threads. Perhaps even after that point. Can you imagine a day when the dolls are more like robots. Or more likely they're still lumps of plastic but talk to you via Alexa or a phone app or something? Then there will be threads about which doll has the best personality, or is sluttiest in bed.
Doll threads may not be as popular as loli threads, but their more popular than who's-your-favorite-pornstar and they're here to stay.

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Need more frozen dolls before I invest

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That's not a doll (God I wish). It's just a 3dcg

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come around about 0800 hours zulu millitary time

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I am getting a doll because i have this hole in my heart. It is some undetectable medical condition but somehow i know that my doll will come into my heart and function like a silicone plug with tubes going into a socket or however it is with that bypass surgery or valve replacement or whatever they do. It's really pretty similar.
really cool photos user.

I don't recognize the painting you modeled here. What was it?

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rape of the sabine women

thank you

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Mods are just being cunts by closing down threads for dolls.

I guess they are jealous they can not afford them.

Does anyone have the other threads pictures? I like dolls they are perfect because they have no soul.

that's what i feel with every living roastie i fuck lmao

CLEAR ALL PORN

ASSEMBLE THE BOIS

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doll list previously posted
typical pasta list:
doll mfgs
good mid teir dolls, priced 1-3k or so
TPE:
wmdollshop.com (1-3k)
dh168 www.dollhouse168.biz/index.php (1-2k)
hgdoll.net/ (also sells other mfg including catdoll, piperdoll, d4e, ect, approved vendor 1-2k and often cheaper due to deals)
catdoll.club/ (800-1.5k)
piperdoll.com (1-2k)
d4e www.doll-forever.com/en/ (1.5-2.5k)
jydoll (can be seen on hgdoll 1-2k)
j-suntech.net/ (500-2k, reseller for silicone at markup)
axb (generally supercheap, if you find random ones that dont match any other seller it might be an axb)
dollter.com/ (500-1.5k)
irontechdoll.com/
topsexdolls.eu/irontech-doll#max_price=1362
hidollshop.com/ (clones, 1-2k)
sydolls.com/
afdoll1.com/ (lot of sub 1k, not sure on quality)
jarliet.com/ (500-2k)
sedoll.com/alloy-skeleton/ (alloy skelly, 1-2k, details somewhat unknown)

silicone:
dsdoll dsdoll.us or exdoll.com (sister sites, all models available from both, also dsdolleurope.com) (2-4.5k)
sanhuidolls.com (2-4.5k)
gynoid www.thecityofsexy.com (4-6k)(recent material and construction issues, order with care)
aikodoll(US based, 60/80cm) (500-800)
www.sino-doll.com (2-2.5k)
www.kuma-doll.com XYColo advanced skelly(~$4k)

3rd parties(can be cheaper or more expensive, check with the mfg site)
thesilverdoll.com
reallovesexdolls.com
dsdolleurope.com(european DS distributor)
sexdollcanada.com/ eh
dollstudio.org (good as an infodump, not great as a seller, does have some uncommon stuff)
dollto-china.com/home.html (some are slightly higher than oem, but lots of options in one spot)
sexye aliexpress store (moderate quality knockoffs of stuff like DSdolls but in TPE)

Are you sure you're not looking for a cam-girl thread?

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user wtf this is pretty cool

Fuck, she's beautiful

no I rather dolls, they are perfect and unlike living fleshlights they do not age and become cows

Been awhile. Ny new swim suit pics?

thanks

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Got a 118 CM doll coming in the mail this Thursday. Any cleaning tips?

also thanks for the link....they have good prices

Wow, dollguy, that ones inspired in classic art really rocks!!

congrats. get some long forceps

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I know right? Super cute.

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thank you. i have some more i want to do

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The soul of a doll might be born. Engraved by secret words whispered between lovers in an intimate embrace. Does the man dare to trust in illusions of his own creation?

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Your photos are very creative. The Napoleon one is very funny lol

I feel like it would be cheaper and easier to just fuck kids

get a douche pump and an aquarium aerator. The aquarium aerator is key because it's literally set it and forget it drying method.

thanks

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Can this be in the OP from now on please?

not if you live in the US.

I found one of those stone dry sticks. Those work pretty well too or naa?

They're gritty and will cut the doll like sand paper

Just dont fuck them in public, dumbass

they usually come with the doll. They work well but stick to the TPE like glue and I'm always worried about ripping it. If you have standing feet cleaning is a breeze.

any pregnant loli dolls with a kung fu grip? i dont want clamps but something to let me know that something has my balls

Y'all got rich from Bitcoin but u lost the will to live. Buy the poor food. Talk to them. Serve them. It's something to do.

eh. when i think "cost" i factor in the legal repercussions as well.

So dont get caught in the act? Easy.

we need to buy you a nice tight rope
your neck seems to be needing one

why are pedos so retarded?

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Not even just cute, outright beautiful. Stunning honestly

No way can you enjoy the same level of intimacy with a living person. Everything is private and belongs to you alone.

The possibility for things like that to reach the surface is very high. Especially given how girls/women cant help but open their mouths about anything and everything. better off traveling to somewhere where the age of consent is lower.

>Doll owners thrown in jail?
Uh, doesn't happen.

it can if you live in a state where theyre illegal

Any thicc doll owners?

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Just happened in Australia

lmao what backward state has laws against dolls? What about cutting a hole in the cunt of a stuffed animal, is that illegal too?

To die trapped under a doll.

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It's just starting to feel like a waste of time posting here. Cred Forums may as well just be /zombie/ at this point.

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the three states it is illegal in i believe they are just misdemeanors for first offenses

Pretty much how I feel about it. Truly an absurd law.

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Kentucy and Florida (where i live)

Jesus fucking christ. They gonna ban dildos too? Holy fuck.

Are you fucking serious? What logic bans sex dolls? Seriously.. do they ban Fleshlights and dildos too?

not really, they will always remember you as a weirdo if they find dolls

if y'all keep posting for me, one day i'll post for u.

cause they think it encourages child sex predators apparently. The UK has similar laws too if i remember correctly

you mean loli dolls are illegal? Because I'm pretty sure you can buy regular dolls there

yea these laws could be challenged in the right cases and with the right lawyers because the definitions are very vague. How do they scientifically define it? Is it height? Facial proportions?

Australia has been a backwards country for a long time and already have a bunch of invasive laws. There's is also way more serious than the ones the few states have banned in the US

At this point if you're a man and you dont make little sluts wet their panties everytime they see you it means you're a creep already. weirdo, same meaning pretty much.

nah regular sex dolls are allowed

wtf are you talking even about?

Better stop people from having thoughts too eh? Thought Police incoming - 2025.

Yeah, like better discriminate against dwarfs and short girls, lmao.

Ah, I see - still, it's a doll wtf oh well.

loli sex dolls... yes. Australia as well apparently.

mysuncoast.com/2019/05/02/florida-legislature-passes-bill-banning-child-sex-dolls/

The question then is, where is that line?
What makes a doll "Child like"?
Does pic related count? why or why not?

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well you get used to fucking a child shaped doll, they think soon you want to try the real thing, not sure if that actually has some merit

Sexy toy

You'll be dead, and they'll die too. Take the nihilism pill, embrace the silicone

don't worry user you'll still be able to buy on of the fine dolls produced here in the US!

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I guess the judge or customs or whoever will decide

but what if a heaven and hell are real? You'll see them again in afterlife and they will look at you like "hey perv, nice to see you again"

who wants to talk about it. In this thread people want to talk about dolls. You could make another thread to talk about what you think i'm talking about.

A Cred Forums archive search for
>" doll thread " :
thebarchive.com/b/search/text/doll thread/type/op/
finds 22 such threads this month at an average of roughly one per day.

If you know what yo're doing in the archive, you can open all those threads and get to all the full resolution images that they contained and download them if you want.

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It doesn't matter because you'll be fucking dead.

If I'm a perv and my doll is being raped, I doubt we'd end up in the same place in the afterlife.

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That's a pretty big if user. If I do make it to heaven I better not seen anyone there. if Paradise includes other people being able to bother me, than I'd rather not exist at all.

probably, if you're OK spending 10+ years in prison afterwards, being beaten and buttraped by fellow mates on a daily basis. But hey, atleast you'll have your memories, right?

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hell yea

I don't understand how a doll could ever be illegal and what the justification for it could be. Because it encourages "wrong ideas?" It would be the same as wanting to ban dildos/onaholes that are shaped like animal genitalia.

But if they both end up in heaven, wouldn't that mean that they didn't do anything wrong?

That is brilliant. Someone needs to blow that up and frame it.

good point, I'm gonna get me some loli doll

Great pic, lol

Same thing we had to go through regarding lolicon mangas is replaying with lolidolls. It's pretty much arbitrary to make something illegal. As long as the political capital is there. Hysteria has fuled the political engine but the emissions are choking us.

I don't want a loli doll. I want one of those especially feminine looking woman ones, but just the very small size, which is rare. Like fucking Marilyn Monroe as a giant.

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religion and moralfags. In religious arabic countries child brides and beating them is perfectly ok, but no dolls.

get caught getting one shipped to the UK and you're fucked. /reason I don't have one. too risky

I guess its sort of normalfag invasion hour right now.

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these are a pretty good example of a high quality love doll.

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independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/child-sex-dolls-uk-paedophiles-seized-borders-jail-prosecutions-a8844406.html

160 cm 27 kg

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about 5k usd

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I'm gonna get philosophical for a moment.

I believe this American life is about as much like heaven as we can hope for. We are social creatures so being alone is torturous, Being with others is heavenly. We are easily corrupted so being given anything and everything we want is just as harmful as isolation. So what we desire is to be free to make our own choices and be around others who can make their own choices. This means that even in heaven we aren't allowed to do whatever we want, because if it's moral for us to hurt others it is equally moral for them to hurt us.
With this in mind, how is our current world unlike heaven? Because even in heaven if each of us has the ability to express ourselves as individuals, some will choose to express themselves by ruling over the rest of us. (or perhaps those people will be angles who help god keep us holey.)

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I'd say it's the inverse.
You can't legally fuck a loli doll, therefore, why not skip dolls altogether and fuck a real little girl.
either way if you don't let people own loli dolls they'll still desire a loli so what kind of retard thinks that denying somebody of the thing that they want will make their desire go away.

Why don't you fags just go and fuck a real woman instead of some plastic pussy.

Wrong thread.

“indecent or obscene articles” is this a loophole in the law? I can sue or throw anyone in jail if I claim that it's either indecent or obscene? peeing on the street? spitting in a potted plant? Jay walking? All condemned to 7 years in prison?

i mean this is the UK we're talking about. Where pic related is illegal while abusing children is ok as long as you're brown.

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Aren't you being a bit naive there? I like your pic btw. You might want to stop taking her out though before some thugs come and bring violence into your life. I see the situation as very serious for lolicons due to the growing acceptance of thought criminalization.

obscenity includes the following criteria: (1) whether ‘the average person, applying contemporary community standards’ would find that the work, ‘taken as a whole,’ appeals to ‘prurient interest’ (2) whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law, and (3) whether the work, ‘taken as a whole,’ lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.
Something must meet all 3 of these requirements to be considers obscene according to the supreme court of the U.S.

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I'm sorry.. what are the dolls made of or what's their size so they cost like 100-300 bucks most? I thought it would be like 5k at least to have a life-like child doll

seriously any preggo loli dolls? i have some MHA cosplay to get ready for by June

Define "child" sex doll. breastsize? height?

dog in the background is judging you

Dolls are typically made out of TPE or silicone. Quality dolls start at about $800 and go up to around $2000 for most loli dolls.

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the ones in the pic 'OP' posted are just under $3k combined

>no pregnant loli dolls
why live?

>pregnant loli dolls
user i...

shit... that's fucking affordable. Fuck me.. now I'm getting weird ideas. I won't try ordering one. I have a friend of a friend who was busted with a loli doll. Police followed him from the post office to his house. I live in Canada if you're wondering. I plan on wiping my computer clean when I'll be crossing the border. I hear you can be taken in for trivial stuff.

t. "cool aunty" mad she doesn't get a beta to expend money on her abused pussy.

I was assaulted once. Not because of my doll so much though. More a matter of a tweaker tried to steal my camera equipment. Though I did become more careful after that because I know a lot of police and if they got involved it would almost certainly have been bad for me professionally.

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you can email catdoll and ask them for an estimate on what it would cost to make one. I bet if you're willlg to pay for it they would make one for you.

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aw yea is that a DH168?

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Do they sell any of these dolls as suits? I got a possession fetish and a skin suit of the dolls is as close as I can possibly get to living the dream.

great question. guess its up to somebody's arbitrary perspective.

sounds like you're more interested in kigirumi cosplay than dolls.

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not gonna lie user even in a doll thread that is pretty fucking weird, but this is probably what you could do...

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I don't like the bags under the eyes, looks like they are tired. other than that they look pretty damn good.

and when i say someone i mean the customs agent who checks the package. or the cop whose job it is to investigate. or the jury who has to decide.

Yeah I know, that's why I never talk about my fetish to anyone. I blame Danny Phantom
I've looked into it but I never liked the faces associated with kigirumis, I like the regular faces these dolls have. If anything I would prefer to keep their body scale the same

it's ok we're all a little fucked up, as long as it doesn't hurt others then whatever melts your butter

Why cant I find this one for sale in US?

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Best to just stop. Repent

abc.net.au/news/2020-02-21/child-like-sex-doll-brisbane-man-charged-first-australia-law/11987074

>imagine taking this to the trash and your neighbors see you
I think it would be less embarrasing to say that you killed somebody

>Australia
meme country, they don't even allow girls with small tits to do porn. Also you can go to prison for having some loli hentai or western garbage r34

because EXdoll sells under the DSdoll label in the us

dsdoll.us/

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>Australia
technically Porn isn't even legal on the internet in Australia, it's just rarely enforced

It's the fashionable blepharoplasty around now.

that's a funny way of admitting that what you just said is retarded

Now that you said that, I'm reminded of Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs. Man, I wish I was a normalfag

I went to australia and fucked a girl there once, she was a jap tho.

yea that's definitely hurting others...

why the fuck would anyone go to jail for fucking plastic?

They don't sell her in the US site bro.

with dolls that appear that age the van is going to come soon

But im not attracted to real prepubescent children. Im attracted to proportionate Midget dolls and whose age is over 18.

I guess it's better that I'll never be able to buy a skinsuit, better for my mind and soul that I don't. Anyways, thanks for the banter user

in the wrong countries you can go to jail for fapping to chadbase (not that it is wrong)

I fucking cackled you glorious bastard

yeah, I was searching too. nothing resembling a loli. all big breasted ones. although exdoll site hog a lot of great choices

Can you buy a regular body and buy a head from the other site?

indeed. real human beings are very complex and relationships need all this back and forth give and take. You basically need to be able to come to a mutual understanding that is tolerable to one another and it requires sacrifice. A lolidoll isn't going to complain or be deceived by the television. She isn't going to eat your food and throw a fit when her brain chemistry gets out of whack. She isn't going to cheat on you or pursue legal opportunities to transfer your property into her ownership when you separate.

I'm sure they are made easy to maintain with a removable parts for quick rinse and dishwasher safe lol

It's a no-name from off of Alibaba that's no longer made as far as I know.

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if the manufacturer is different they will have different silicone type and shade of colour. That is if the connection is the same in the first place.

have you ever been on a Tinder date?

I really want this one

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All of you guys seriously give me the creeps.

hey OP can you show me what's the top of the shelf, cream of the crop type of doll that if money isn't a factor I would want to buy?

aidoll.4woods.jp/en/

4woods english site doesn't offer the lolidolls. I'm not sure if they ship lolidolls overseas or not.

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more doll fucking please

OMG, their videos are pure gold. im dying

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Since you can get just about any size, shape, color, race and face that you want thats kind of a matter of taste isn't it? There's also considerations of weight (the big ones are fucking heavy) and ease of maintenance to consider too. What is 'best' is what is best for you and no one but you knows what that is.
Oh yeah you also need to make sure she shares your hobbies.

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>no Karen

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ok, well, I was obviously talking about loli dolls since I'm here. What I meant is what's a good reputable site with quality materials and great reviews. I just don't want to be ripped off by some chinese knock off that has seems showing and has paint chipping ect.

not OP but probably in the custom doll category you could be looking at $50k+. If not custom Sinthetics and 4woods have the reputation of being the top high end. Not gonna mention real doll because I really don't like their heads.

if you pay them enough money one of the high end doll companies would probably make one for you as long as they could ship it legally.

>being alone is torturous
speak for yourself

Could you imagine dying and people finding these things in your house?

youtube.com/watch?v=0Rtu1Va-dnM

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I like being alone too. Butt studies of inmates in solitary confinement have shown that after a fairly short amount of time there you'll go nuts.

I'm in my 60s, my kids know about them already. They think they're creepy, but so long as they don't have to split the estate with them they'll deal with it.

It doesn't even look like a realistic pregnant belly, what's the point?

doll-forever.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/pict_doll_Akira_5.jpg

strange, it looks like they took her of their site, because thats for sure a 145cm with the Nina head. I'm sure if you email them and ask for her they will still sell you one. Maybe they were getting people saying that that face looked too young?

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"Who ever knew uncle Frank was such a fuckin weirdo."

if you are dead you won't be able to care.
the scary thing would be going extremely sick or something along these lines and your family finding out all your non-normie stuff

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elf ears look cute. I like that otherworldly motif

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elf ears are cute. I love that otherworldly motif

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If money were no object I would get this doll.

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An elf doll would be very fun.

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just think how many ways you can dress her and the fantasy poses you can have!

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I've had to make do with putting fake ears on one of my dolls for now.

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What the fuck Buffalo Bill?

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...

A serial killer in the movie that killed women to skin them. Watch the movie, shit's cash.

I want an adult doll that I can make give birth. any suggestions?

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Hence, calling him Buffalo Bill.

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it's has a cute face and nice ass but the tits are too big. doesn't make proportions look right.

not OP but I'm finding out how deep the rabbit hole goes. dolls are something new to me. Never seen one irl so can't say if it's something for me.

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Kinda late in the thread but here is for all you loli bros

catdoll.club/

imgur.com/GPXq0P6

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not bad

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Link to buy doll?

the rabbit hole isn't that deep. It's as deep as going to walmart and buying a bratz doll.

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Nice! I plan on buying the silicone Sasha at the end of the year if I can't get a girlfriend or kill myself.

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Yeah you have fun with that fucking cadaver of a doll bro I’ll stick to normal pussy

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aidoll.4woods.jp/order/aidoll

I pulled all of the pics from 4woods twitter so go to their website.
it's not just about that... it's the culture about the dolls and how different people react around them. so many varieties. some people just fuck them others see a form of art (maybe stretching a bit here). the laws in different countries. I'm finding out my new things here

Thanks bro!

I can't get a girlfriend because all women are whores and always have so many other options/ are talking to like 30 guys at once with them always lined up. for guys like us this is the only option or suicide.

4woods lolidolls are not listed on the eng version of website. Probably will still ship em though.

>can buy a loli doll
>can buy a futa doll
>can't buy a loli futa doll

why even live?

You could contact the companies to see if they could make a mask and wear that like the kigirumis wear.

can't buy because have no money?

enjoy your chlamydia, gonorrhea, syphilis, mycoplasma genitalium, trichmoniasis, hpv, hiv, crabs, scabies, herpes, hepatitis, chancroid, blue waffle, nongonococcal urethritis, molloscum contagiosum, mrsa, and lymphogranuloma venereum meatfaggot.

did somebody say LOG!??

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go with the latter

I don't think its a stretch, I view my dolls very much as art.

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I was thinking of buying an elf bae but the models that I found didn't have big tiddies for a good price >:[

Any DIYers lurking? Anyone ever tempted to make a doll?

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Cat girl dolls when?

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I am. I have all te material and knowledge but lack the will power to keep going. I'm very lazy.

I do have a 3d printer, the thought has crossed my mind.

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I want to buy a mini sex doll. Like 50 cm or less. Know any good sites for such things?

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In Australia a guy just got 15 years in prison for owning a doll that looked underage.

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he should've said she was a 600 year old magical sword or something along those lines.. kek

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they just throw anyone in jail for decades for just about anything

Not a fan of that frontal tramp stamp. Needs bigger tits imo

>Kentucky
Oh fuck me.
Now I'll never have my substitute for sweet loli love.

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You're not wrong mate. This country has turned to shit since 9/11.

good thing i popped in i guess:

my dolls are DS145cm with NinaE heads.
white is the older insert style minus body, dark is the new EVO body.

DS/EX 145 NinaE reference page
exdoll.com/product-57.html

can be purchased through dsdoll, exdoll, or dsdolleurope as they are all the same company(europe i think is just a dedicated local distributor). anything you see on all 3 can be ordered, i use the dsdoll sales email to order in the US since its not on the us site.

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It's illegal in Australia to watch porn on the internet. Australia has some of the dumbest laws on the planet.

where do you guys watch porn then? on the telly? porn magazines?

imgur.com/nKeYkGJ

It's very much a nanny state. And it's the population's fault. 99% of people are too dumb to see/understand what's happening.

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kind of absurd something happening in one country affecting a whole different country.
Man in france gets stabbed, Australia bans guns as the result.

>Pregnant grannies
Meh, a pregnant loli doll would be amazing though.

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I want to use cosplay foam craft, body suits and vinyl fetish wear to make a fembot doll with exposed joints and wires. That way I can build it modular and use skin parts from other toys and not need a full body mold. The more I look into it the more it becomes a Frankenstein construction fetish than doll. Pygmalionism both ways.

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It isn't legal to fuck little girls.

I know! Australia has introduced more laws under the guise of "national security" than any other country on the planet since 9/11. And it didn't even happen here!
Madness.

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Would be a reason for me to get one.

if i wasnt poor yea

yeah, you should look at gynoids dolls.

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Pinoko is mostly plastic so that is weirdly relevant to the thread in a few ways.

They're not US based right. how do you deal with US customs opening it. Not technically federally illegal but lets say you live in a state that banned them.

I did as you instructed. no such box though. I think they updated the privacy settings.

Sanhui makes them. Also Mistresslovedolls(probably knock-offs)

I`d like a Murloc doll but Blizzard probably has the copyright and would stop it.

I wish there were proper robogirl dolls.
Something like Jenny, Drossel or one of the Polynians. I would rather just get a normal girl doll than this sci-fi costume junk.

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robogirls? how do you imagine it will have to look like? I mean it already has some metal and plastic parts in her.

Replace the head with a porn playing LCD screen and automated glory hole inside a helmet. I'm sold! Bypass the uncanny valley with realistic expectations. Fuckbot FUKS. No dead eye dollies for me.

Probably the best way is to establish a doll community and then you can hire someone to receive your doll and then go pick it up from them.

imgur.com/nKeYkGJ

Mine is a boy and doesn't like being bullied

Thats a lot of trust in a complete stranger.

The same stuff as a normal doll on the important soft bits but with harder plastic on the plating.

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Dont know about you but I've been watching how cosplayers make foam swords both soft but shiny and durable.

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That would be pretty hot NGL

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I like where you're going. Hopefully you have some more examples for us?

Jesus fuck it's not that hard to get a woman. I'm a huge doll fan but damn man. She might not be gold tier but there's a woman out there for you. They are not all whores. The ones you want maybe but not all. Still get that doll tho and I'll be jealous.

That's why you make direct eye contact with your neighbors and say "I'm DONE fucking this one, my others await."

thats some nice detail, source?

I like the rubbery toy like quality some cosplay foamcradt pulls off.

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I think it's like finding gold in a dumpster. I heard there are some on Omegle as well.

One more and no more.

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I buy a lot of those mini torso pussy+asshole things that are like $100 on Amazon. They're great for getting really high and watching VR porn, but they don't seem to last very long. Either my hole warmer seems to melt it inside (even though it doesn't get very warm), or my water-based lube still eats away at it.

How do the full-size dolls hold up? Are they any better? I'd had to throw away a few thousand for something that's going to lose all texture inside after a few uses.

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those are some nice dolls there OP

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I don't want to spam the thread but my ideal robogirl doll is the Charming Drossel Figma but bigger.
I wouldn't really want it to feel completley like a normal fleshy doll.

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I'd HATE* to through away a few thousand...

also dem dubs plz check

*yawn*

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sexdollgenie.com/collections/gynoid-dolls/products/yui-160cm-5-2-d-or-e-cup
urdolls.com/joints-yasuko-doll-mans-matters-p-148.html
looks like this one

what are those?

This doll is over two years old, and the holes are a little torn up at this point, but not to where I can't use her.

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Yes, I'd like to know where they went, too...

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