Business owners are shitting their pants right now. They're gonna be taxed through the nose after Bernie is elected...

He said forgetting that they'll just go to automation

Commie scum fuck off

>If you're employed, your employment is beneficial to the profits. Your employment produces more profit than it costs.
If thats true then why is automation so cost efficient?

>thinks automated machines just create and maintain themselves hurr

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Read more smoothbrain fortune.com/2020/02/25/industrial-robotics-ai-covariant/

LOW IQ simps in this thread

nu d00d bernies is gunna win

kill yourselves

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Why are lefties so obsessed with taxing the rich? Like where do they think that money would go anyways? The issue shouldn’t be taxing rich people but forcing mega corps to provide better salaries and/or benefits if they want to partake in our economy. The only reason anyone is whining about universal healthcare or other bullshit like that is simply because they don’t think they will ever get a job that can provide it for them.

Look at the number of businesses closing in Seattle nigger

Automation is only proficient for very specific tasks and even when it is used it just means said people can direct their efforts elsewhere for the company.

Care to divulge in what you mean by that?

Raising minimum wage in Seattle is killing businesses left and right, the majority being independent entrepreneurs and small businesses that don't have the means to keep up.

the rich are the left
LOL do you think republicans have money

and I agree, your kind should NEVER be given money. let you ROT is what I say. take away entitlements and healthcare, and let your kind starve and DIE!!

Sadly lefties want to give you free money and better healthcare, I think it's an abomination. Thus I'm going to vote Trump. Trump wants to get rid of healthcare and entitlements (the cure to rid the earth of your FILTH).

Socialism only hurts the left (as we're the ones with money).

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That is a really stupid question.

If option A costs 2000/month but produces 4000/month that's a profit of 2000/month or 24000/year

If option B costs 5000 once and 50/month and produces 4000/month, that's an annual profit of 42400.

Automation is cost efficient because it replaces one work force with a cheaper work force.

That doesn't change the fact that an employer never would hire you if it didn't mean a net profit.

which is a fair point, if this is done now itl work.

if we wait another 20+ years it wont.

this man is stupid

we need more money, not less
tax the poor, they are used to it already

Imagine being such a brainwashed serf you actually believe asking your overlords to pay their fair share thru a more fair taxation model is "harmful" to you?
Hahaha what a fucking cuck you must be. "Sure I let my wife fuck around on me and date other men because if i don't she might leave me."
That's literally how you sound you fucking uneducated mongoloid tool.
Stop fucking your sister, turn off the Fox News and think for yourself, you fucking goober.

that

they are rich because they are not willing to pay for anything
only poor people is willing to pay for every single stupid shit

When taxes are increased and wages raised, companies profit margins get thinner and can reverse.
When governments make it more financially sensible to close down than operate, that's what businesses do.

What about the people that do? Why even vote for him then?

>Hurr durr I am too stupid to see that the economy and businesses rely on each other to operate
>Hurr durr millions of people will be out of money but still somehow be able to buy my product

>employer says to you bye-bye to compensate their revenue loss

I think you have forgotten that there was higher taxes before Reagan. Things were actually better back then. The more progressive income tax caused CEOs to be paid less because the board of directors saw it as a waste to get a 90 percent tax on the income.

Keep telling yourself that kid.

they're so pro-1%, they don't even think they're worth crumbs anymore. they've been decimated by breitbart and fox, I mean they bought into the durrrr education is bad, durrr science is bad, and the durrrr handouts are bad (even if it's their tax money)

you can't fix stupid. these trumpers are standing in the way of progress. there's only 1 way to deal with their kind.

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nice try Ivan, go suck some Putin cock

this. also he got cucked again by some cow rights activists.
youtu.be/BWxup4B4IzQ

>American politics thread
>Americans are sleeping
So it's true that you're just some faggot larping as an American? Pathetic faggot

lhe keeps winning primaries, none of your retard rights protesters can stop him now
he'll dwarf Hillary's numbers

Its a Bernout trying to LARP as "alt-right" since he does it for free

fucking KEK

Too bad Hillary controls the DNC.

your kind must be deported!

The all the leftist niggers are the ones with the money?

YOU'RE A FUCKING MORON

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I’d rather be a person who owns a shack on 12 acres than be a cuckold who rents a shitty one room apartment.

as long as there is a need in the market the need will be met.

just because one company cannot run the buisness as a profit, doesnt mean that nobody can.

the entire purpose of these tax brackets is to eather A) force the huge monopolies to pay tax instead of reaping profits and contributing to a higher and higher income ineqality, or B) shut their buiesness down and leave a hole in the market that will be filled via smaller buisness that dont have so much overhead.

eather way the profits of the country get distributed more evenly and makes it alot harder for conglomerate monopolies to occur

it's a russian troll obviously

Jokes on you: i'm white

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go to bed Boris

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But he is a socialist and socialism never worked in human history. He might be right, I don't know, but what I know for certain is that the rich will avoid the tax and the middle class will have to pay for everything and in 10 years or so, voila, the middle class is now the lower class and everybody gets fucked, except for the rich and party members.

all alt-right retards must be deported, immediately

your kind own nothing.

my kind own estates. DIE OFF WELFARE MONKEY!!!!!

>legalizing weed
>15$ minimum wage

you can't even speak English as your first language! DEPORT!!!

They will come out ahead if they are paying for health care. If they arent, they probably arent making enough to be affected.... and they'll benefit from a healthier workforce. The math is overwhelmingly in favor of this.

Ah, all these rich people choose to live in the inner city for what reason?

Yes. Help all of the rest of your kind move on from 2016. No reason to live in the past.

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Many of the richest already doesn't pay taxes in the nation they live in, they use off-shore accounts and pay taxes at the lowest rate available. Increase in taxes will just motivate more to do the same. The belief that paying taxes is good and makes the community stronger is for the lower classes of society.

It is like if commercial flight companies had to pay a fee for the impact of the environment, the company itself won't lose money, in the end it's the passengers who will pay that fee, through an increase in ticket price.

bb b b b b b b b but Obamaaaaaa and and and and we neeeeeeeeeeed to Investergate Hillary agin for the 1000th time and waste another 3B on it! boy those ole libs are deeeeeranged!

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so they don't have to live close to you, Geeter, ya dip, also there's no economy in a suburban or depopulated area. think pls low IQ

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The obscene profit margin at which some of these companies operate men's they would have to be traced far more than anyone has any proposal to do to 'reverse' it. It's like you think Amazon runs on a razor thin margin. It doesn't. Thus the yo mama joke "yo mama so fat her ass is wider than Amazon's profit margin".

Socialism is the community as a whole controlling the means of production. Name any country where this has been the case.

>implying people on Cred Forums are employed

>the super rich

the super rich are a VERY rare breed. if people lose jobs to them, they'll be able to be hired by other companies who've made gains by the same policies :)

stop whining pls

>thinking maintenance worker to robot ratio is 1:1

k

>millions of people will be put out of money
the intelligent right ladies and gentlemen

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pretty sure I didn't say that but keep relying on strawmen it seems to be your thing

>people will be out of money

Kek seething this hard

It's 7am in America

Should I listen to Buffett or Bernie

youtu.be/j8s7pNuiINM

Imagine being such a brainwashed commie that you think rich people pay more in taxes because the government says so. You have to be 18 to post here.

>That wasn't real socialism
It's all so tiresome. Stop being a jealous baby it is an ugly trait. Your ideology has resulted in millions of deaths thought the 20th century and always, ALWAYS fails. There are still rich people and you still won;t be one of them and the rest of us will have live in shit and starve too because you have the IQ of a child and are a jealous pussy.

Deportation is racist therefore you're a racist youself. And that makes you a Nazi

Fuck off shill.

I remember when my local fast food joint went to automation, they just shuffled the employees around to serve things faster.

I'll agree but they shouldn't get credits too. There are those that pay zero taxes that get a refund. That's my money going to those that made poor choices in life

Shame now their hours got cut by 50%

Start a company doing the exact same thing I'm doing right now and completely cut them out of the loop?

no you are a jew with that cut wreck

Not my ideology. Also not an ideology that has ever been executed in modern history. Facts don't care about how right you want to be. Socialism is the collective control of the means of production, not 'everything that is slightly left of free market capitalism'.

Show yours then faggot, unless you're afraid we'll see all that ricotta underneath

Bernie 2020!

lol, mines cut too. I was just being a cunt

Haha! Keep railing on Bernie.
You are literally giving the guy FREE PUBLICITY! You are spamming his face on here getting anons to like Bernie to trigger you!
This is how Trump got elected!!!

Why does the Right absolutely refuse to stop being cucked by the wealthy?
Are you scared having no masters?
>inb4 some nonsensical shit

OP is dumb as dogshit.
Confused about the difference between business owners and high income earners?
None of you user retards are earning enough for this to matter. None of you ever will earn enough for this too matter.

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>This is how Trump got elected!!!
It baffles me that they aren't seeing this.
Or the correlation of telling everyone they are batshit crazy thinking he has a chance.
All of this seems mighty familiar.

>None of you ever will earn enough for this too matter.
And there is the clincher.
A lot of them DO think that this will apply to them
Either out of misunderstanding the actual nitty gritty of it all, or because they are dumb enough to think that they will one day be a part of the elite.

They didn't learn the lesson we did in 2016 because they won. It's gonna be a rude awakening.

An income of ten million a year is fucking insane. A bunch of my buddies are multimillionaires from generation wealth or getting there in tech sales. The richest guy I know probably has 400 million. I cannot imagine what 10 billion dollars gets you that 400 million cannot.

Stop LARPing a guy with a six figure income

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Exactly zero politicians give any fucks about the people who vote for them.

Bernie clearly does. One of the only honest ones in the game.

Source in capital gains rate? I've never seen this

theres as much chance of Bernie getting his ideas enacted as mexico paying for trumps wall

not business owners, but those making OVER 10 Million a year. AKA: The Super Rich.
Most businesses don't even come close to that.

Lottery winnings should be tax exempt up to $100 million. Fucking bullshit how people will get a once in a lifetime amount and then get taxed like they are Fortune 50 CEOs.

In fact there should be short-term peak breaks for anyone. If you make $1 million or $10 million in one year because you got into the NBA or sold a company, you shouldn't be taxed like someone who makes that shit EVERY YEAR.

The NBA player will probably spend ages 35-90 making nothing comparative. The person selling their company will probably never come close again.

I'm all for coming up with ways of tapping into the .01%ers, but it seems counterintuitive to fuck over one-timers or short-timers who ultimately won't ever be super wealthy, their instant wealth divided over the many decades they'll use that money.

Oh and fucking fuck death taxes, payroll taxes, and property taxes (except I'm OK with really BIG property taxes, like don't fucking tax homes yearly faggots. It's just not right. But tax giant commercial space or superwealthy compounds if you want. Exemptions for wildlife preservation. But that would have to be like 0 housing or business spaces involved in an acre.

I thought it was because of Russian bots lol

Not getting elected, so won't matter.

These are the dumbest ideas I've ever heard and would create all kinds of perverse incentives and loop holes.

I fucking hate all taxes so that doesn't bother me. But since we have to tax here, I'd rather these not be on the list. I'm sure the specifics can get massaged.

For example, if taxation took into account total money earned in lifetime, that could balance out the ridiculously high taxes on single payments. It would generate more revenue, while never being as harsh in a single year.

Also if they're the dumbest ideas you've ever heard, you are incapable of gauging basic reality.

>after Bernie is elected.

Keep telling yourself that.

Trump is going to win, and when he does, you will be materially better-off.

"I-It's fine I-I'll just f-fire everyone! That'll show Bernie! The 20/80 people I keep will DEFINITELY be able to maintain my previous profit and work standards! You'll see! You'll see! I won't lose a penny!

Yes, people will get fired because you can't force a shitty human being to become a better human being. However, hoping 20 people can do the work of 80 is foolish. Fire half your staff, see where that gets you. Rehire less skilled workers at a lower rate, see where that gets you in the long run. Value rate of pay over quality of employee, have fun filing for bankruptcy in five years.

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Get a job.

It’s insane to think we don’t have preschool and college/trade school paid for, both of which clearly improve the populations intelligence and the economy. Especially since debt gos right into the pockets of your (((them))). It’s also insane we don’t just have universal healthcare being as we can build it around a lot of existing models in other countries. Both of these things not being provided while we spend 700 billion on the military and send billions to Israel is why trumptards are true cucks. Politicians who denounce these things have banks, investors, and the super wealthy in their pockets, hence why Bernie supporters and dems in general have no real issues supporting these types of taxes.

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imagine thinking Jewnie Sandberg would get elected, the jews in our government would rape him to death

it's more like 33% for the 40k bracket if you count social security and medicaid/care

and according to the recent democrat debates they want to give these services to illegal aliens now, so after the next democrat become president you can expect your salaries and paychecks to lose an even bigger chunk

Vote republican. Trickle down ain’t great but it’s better than unemployment after all the businesses flee the country.
Of course Bernie can just nationalize them. That always works!

lol i dont give a fuck. i hope bernie turns this place into a commie nightmare shitbowl. trump has done nothing but good since he entered the office, but the majority of the fucking country still cant get rid of their libtard obsession.

so fuck em. on election day i'm voting bernie, getting on a plane, flying to NZ and never coming back. Enjoy your hell, faggots. You've worked hard for it.

Businesses can go to other countries.
Unless you think every American should work at Walmart or McDonald’s.

>and according to the recent democrat debates they want to give these services to illegal aliens now, so after the next democrat become president you can expect your salaries and paychecks to lose an even bigger chunk
I cant believe they said that still. Madness.

They didn't flee when the upper tax brackets were higher than anything Bernie has proposed, they won't flee this time. This still stand to earn more by staying than by leaving.

Time for someone to check this ages old bluff.

Where the money goes

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Where would these people go? Europe? Canada? To get a lower tax they would have to move to like Russia...good luck with that.

hell even if israel's grifting the usa, it's quite a clever grift worthy of my respect.

Bernie for the win!

Are you a Russian troll?

its not about the money its about the principle. you don't spend your whole life working and sacrificing to earn the right to be the master of your future only to be told by a group of idiots elected by mentally retarded people what you're going to do with that money.

It's a matter of principle.

>cuck

better to be at the right hand of the devil than to be in his path.

See
Once you get into the golden parachute club you pay a higher costs on that extra range of income

>rather pay my Jew friend money instead of feeding my family

yeah i read this and i see "be successful, but don't be TOO successful" and nothing about that sentence is the slightest bit American.

Cry me a river. It wasn't about principles a second ago. It was about all the companies fleeing. They won't. Your principles are not an argument.

if it's more responsible for people who make more money to pay more in income taxes then people who don't pay any taxes or medicaid/care or social security should NOT be allowed to vote

who wants a bunch of stupid dumbass kids? making them's fun but the rest isn't my problem or interest. Let the woman figure out what to do with it. Only thing she's good for other than fucking.

I agree with this. It should at least be a very small amount instead of fucking half, like it is now.

>Be more successful than anyone else and let part of your success that won't stop you being the winningest winner help other people not be debited their right to life.
Sounds very American to me.

its called pivoting dumbass. look it up

It was the state of America for generations. They still get awards for it same as you get taxed.

sink or swim bitch. this isn't a homeless shelter.

well regardless i think the left's become a safehaven for psychotics and tardlovers, and if thats what the people want then fine i'll give it to them and i'll move to NZ and watch the dumpster fire burn from over the horizon.,

I dont follow. If Billionaires prefer to live in a less democratic place, there are plenty in Africa they can move to. America having neutral value with all other place, surely they should just move there or perhaps China is the right place for these billionaires to move.

No. It's called deflecting by using feelings. Facts don't care about your feelings. Fact is the tax rate has been higher and companies didn't leave. Your feelings don't change how btfo your argument is. Deflect harder.

>Succeed or die
That sounds very un-American. Goes directly against the founding document of our nation. Why do you hate America?

>nothing but good

hes slightly raised the average working wage, by like 5-10k

everything else is eather going backwards or following the trend.

he promissed the world and then gave you a carrot

Just go now, why wait?

you libs are so fucking deluded its not even funny

i wanna vote for bernie to have the satisfaction of knowing I helped cause the hell he's going to create for everyone here.

the left has become the home of the bible thumping zealots with no theistic religion

same type of people, different era and politics

What state are you in? It’s likely predetermined so just go now.

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Let's say you make a Widget, it costs you $10 in raw materials. It takes an hour to make, and your worker gets paid $20 an hour. Then at the end of the year, it means you have to pay $15 in taxes. So it costs you $45 to make. Let's say you sell it for $50, so you make a $5 profit after accounting for your costs.

Now let's say a guy comes along, we'll call him B, and says we're upping your taxes per Widget from $15 to $30. Now it costs $60 to make a Widget. If you keep selling it at $50, you lose $10 per sale. If you increase the price to $65 to keep your profits constant, what happens is your sales drop because fewer people will buy the product at $65 than when it used to cost $50. That means you need to make fewer Widgets, and making fewer Widgets takes fewer labor hours. So you need to lay off some of you workers.

>confederate battle flag
>democrats party of the confederacy

the hillbillies all have dyed hair and think gender is a social construct now, get on my level boomposter

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I think I lost an IQ point reading your post

Troll thread. Bernie doesn't target business owners, only a select few that happened to luck themselves into being the richest individuals in the country.

Stop panicking, he isn't even going to be the Dem nominee. The fix is in.

Tryin' their hardest to lose

>durrrr handouts are bad (even if it’s their tax money)

That’s exactly why they’re bad. Why should the government decide how to spend the money I earned? Why do they get to control the value of what I produce? Don’t try and say it’s bc the government is somehow better at it, because they’re not, look at the state of the welfare system

I don’t have a problem with social programs in theory, but government is inherently inefficient, since they’re not spending their own money. Do you look at your bank account, say “duh, I’ve got $100, so I can spend $200 and get the other half from my friend” or do you think “hey I only have $100, so I’m going to try to save what I can for now so I have $200 later to work with”

My politics are simple: do no harm and don’t spend more than you make

Doesnt mean much if you're your own boss. It's called feeling the Bern, bro.

down with the corporate ogliarchy and let the free market be open again? Sounds good to me

We aren't in the Great Depression, they don't need that much extra to easily thrive. Think of it like a diet.

But what happens the next time there's a major depression? Do you expect the government to cut taxes, or cut spending? They don't exactly have a history of doing that.

literally just quoting statistics.

but keep being butthurt and delusional

bullshit, you lying sack of crap

FAKE

It's funny that you fuckheads think the rich will pay more taxes, because they fucking won't....

Raise taxes, and the rich will simply find ways to write more taxes off. LOWER taxes, and the rich will be more inclined to invest in things that are taxed....

Stop being retards. Socialism is a BAD thing, and the Government should NOT be in charge of money... If the last four THOUSAND years has taught us anything, it's that government is the WORST solution to any given problem.

>pic unrelated

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your math is all fucked up yo, how are you getting your tax before your profit ??

the tax is derived purely from profit.... you dont get a flat increase in tax period. the only time your tax rises is if your profit rises.

so no your cost isnt 15 dollars tax on a 30 dollar made widget,

its (50-30) /tax rate

even then the profits go into seperate brafkets and get taxed at different levels

your doing the math all fucky

please never enter finance

>your math is all fucked up yo, how are you getting your tax before your profit ??
I was simplifying for illustration. The same basic principle applies either way. Adding taxes after profit just complicates things.

Jesus fucking retards on a pogo stick. But it's a Bernie thread, so no surprise.

I’m sure in a massive tax plan overhaul about closing loopholes and ensuring higher taxes on the highest income everyone would leave a bunch of loopholes to completely defeat the purpose...

Why not take a break from murican civil war part II electric boogaloo shitposting and go get some borscht in the mess hall comrade?

Vasily could might be there with the vodka! Is good time, da.

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Nice try shill.

The super rich can only find more loopholes to avoid paying tax if those loopholes exist. That's where a non-corrupt government needs to intervene to make that near impossible.

People are sick of living like slaves making their masters rich.

If hard work will never be able to afford you a property in an urban environment near a major city to own and come home to, then why even bother?

>non-corrupt government
how exactly do you propose we find this unicorn?

Small business will be the most effected, fam.

your second point is flawwed. its been empirically shown that the rich continuesly find whatever way they can to horde as much as they can.

its breeding an ever increasing income inequality.

and if you change the tax laws so that the only way they can ride off tax is by investing in thier company/ employees. so that if they do spend money for tax breaks they are not only improving their buisness, but other buisness and the lives of americans.

tax rideoffs arnt a bad thing, only when they can get it for no fucking reason

...don't they say bye-bye to you even now just as easily? Don't pretend you're not a simple disposable asset these days.

I’ll be fine because he will never be president

Your illustration is so abstract as to be worthless. The cost of said widget to produce in China is more like $5 materials, $1 labor, $1 supply chain. You sell if for $80. With a new tax scheme you are taxed on the difference at the higher rate. You can increase how much you charge or reduce the wildly disproportionate income of the highest leaders. Maybe you move your headquarters to like Mississippi and accept a reduced lifestyle and lower IQ employee base? You don’t really have much wiggle room on anything else because you’ve already chosen to embrace the misery of foreign workers as a means to gain maximum profits.

it doesnt complicate things it changes the entire fucking equation.

the correct way of doing it is at the end, tax is not a fixed rated or price in any scenario, nd the example you have given is so false that you would give an accountant an anyerysm.

the math DOES NOT WORK if you do it the way you suggested, and completly draws a naritive that cant even be compared to how taxation really works.

You got it so wrong and your only answer is that doesn't matter?

Please never work with money. You're too retarded.

Well mostly...

by poisoning the whitehouses water supply with the deadly policorup virus

>tax over 10mill
>small buisness most effected.

>closing loopholes
Yeah, except that's never going to happen. Bernie and everyone else making tax law ARE THE RICH who will be hit with these taxes...

>a non-corrupt government
HAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!! That's fucking hilarious that you think such a thing will ever exist ever, let alone in a superpower nation such as ours...

>If hard work will never be able to afford you a property in an urban environment near a major city to own and come home to, then why even bother?
Because you have to start your journey somewhere. You can't just get out of high school and go be a CEO; it doesn't work that way unless your father is Joe Biden...

You have to start by learning the low-end skills, and finding what direction you want to go in life, and pursuing that path. You have to go MAKE your house, you can't just sit on your fat, lazy, entitled fucking ass and expect everyone in the world to just come hand you shit.

>horde as much as they can
Ah, yes, the Communist "wealth hording" myth.

The problem with this theory is that the rich don't just get money for literally nothing... They have to put their current money TO WORK, in order for it to grow. In other words, they have to soundly INVEST it. They buy a business, but that's NOT where the costs stop; they have to figure out what infrastructure, inventory, employees, et. al. need to be PURCHASED and reworked and hired and etc., in order to GROW that business...

If you think you just hang a shingle outside your home and you're magically in business and getting rich, you're an absolute fool. Business COSTS MONEY, that's why the OWNER takes home the lion's share; because the OWNER has put the most investment in, and has risked the most.

>the only way they can [write] off tax is by investing in thier company/ employees.
That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Please, kid... STOP voting! You're really doing a lot of damage to your nation by doing so...

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imagine thinking that its possible to pay $15 tax on $5 profit.

now imagine your so confident in this, you use it as an example to try and "teach idiots"

You've managed to confuse personal taxes and business taxes.

Why does everyone who shits on Bern have a brainlet?

The purpose of an abstract example is to clearly illustrate a relationship or an outcome, not to correctly model reality. That's why people use round numbers and make them big enough so the results are readily apparent, instead of dealing with decimals and additional steps.

And if you think the typical profit on a widget from China is $73 on an item that costs $7 to produces, you're seriously divorced from reality. The typical return on investment is about 5% per year. What happens if someone starts making a 1000% profit? Hundreds of other companies will start making the widget, prices will plummet, until they start to approximate the normal market return on investment.

>question nothing, all is as it should be
An expert cuck appears.

It completely works. If you think it doesn't, you have to show how it doesn't. But you can't, because it's a good illustration of how increasing taxes reduces employment.

Also, it's not even absolutely correct that taxes are on profits. There are sales taxes and VATs which apply to the whole cost of the goods, and various fees and the like that are just flat costs. But none of that adds anything useful to the example.

Bloomberg and Trump are the same person. We're talking about real candidates.

I correctly pointed out your error.

You on the other hand couldn't figure out the other user was referring to the GDP, and then claimed you got it right while saying the US federal budget was 210 trillion.

You're so stupid it's amazing you can manage to breathe.

but then you still have all of congress, the entire federal bureaucracy, and all those state governments

>> communist wealth hording myth

its not a myth mate, its clearly shown in the failed reagan "trickle down effect" model.

no trickle down occured, the only thing that happened was the birth of the ever increasing wage gap.

your getting caught up in ideologies and failing to look at the facts of what is occuring.
the tiny majority now control and run the fast majority with immunity, the same thing that occured in the ussr, there just doing it with finance and not violence.

It's the conservative mindset these days.
For some reason they view empathy and compassion as weaknesses.

REMINDER TO ABANDON THESE RUSSIAN TROLL THREADS, THEY ARE CREATED EVERY HOUR JUST TO SPLIT OUR GLORIOUS NATION.

>imagine thinking that its possible to pay $15 tax on $5 profit.
Imagine thinking anyone said that.

And imagine thinking it's impossible, when you consider things like sales tax, VATs, assorted fees, tariffs, and so on on top of capital gains and income tax.

What trickle down effect? It's a label economic illiterates made up to apply to something that doesn't exist.

how is buying shit from other buisness's and employee wages a bad idea for writeoffs ?

are you fucking stupid? it means the only way a company can get tax deductions is if they are actively putting that money back into the economy. but i suppose you think its better for these companies to continuely suck the economy dry to fuel their own enterprise.

you are the posterchild for retardation friend.

This can and does backfire. In the UK the personal allowance, the level at which a person starts paying income tax, has been raised over the past decade from £6k to £12.5k. The result has been a lot of very low-income individuals being taken out of paying any income tax at all.

To sell this idea, the government and supportive newspapers(which is most of them) sold it on the basis that we shouldn't be taxing the poor, then giving them back their own money in the services and benefits they. They are better at spending their own money and because we are a civilised country, we look after people in need.

Fast-forward to after this is implemented and the narrative is now 'why should people get getting anything when they aren't contributing, we need more spending cuts, etc'. This was blatantly the plan all along. They didn't like the fact that what entitled people morally to services and benefits was their contribution through taxes, but they experimented with publishing stats that show 'net takers' paying less in tax than they get in public services and it back-fired. It opens the conversation up to talking about how much the very rich take in proportion to what they actually contribute. That's a conversation the 'fiscal conservatives' don't want to have.

learn your own political history you fucking degenerate.

>30 dollar widget, 15 dollars tax, 5 dollara profit.

you cant read or just missed the post were he flat out stated it ?

Also, you completely fail to understand why "hoarding" is a myth. Because for hoarding to make sense, the money has to be taken out of the economy, i.e. put in a vault, or under a mattress. But that's not what happens. The money of the rich goes into banks or investments, which is used by other companies to add value.

Educate yourself on your stupidity:
youtube.com/watch?v=nZPDpk8NA-g
Yes, I know, he's a black man. Try not to be scared.

It's an example. It's not an attempt to model reality. If you can't tell the two apart, you should be hanging out with 4 year olds who can't tell fantasy from reality.

Wow you're stupid.

I work for a Canadian company owned by Indians that outsources labor to the us, and sometimes sells products to China.
I don't know what to think about anything anymore

Read more about comparative advantage.

>taking hoarding to a literal sense of moving items

you understand thats not how modern finances work right ?

and while that has literally ALWAYS been the case, the statistics are currently showing that the rich are continuesly gaining more and more while the rest are continuesly gaining less and less.

if you dont consider that hoarding wealth, then theres no real point in even continueing this discussion.

i mean if we both earn 10k a year, and every year i add 1k of your income to mine, how could that possibly be hoarding wealth.

In what why does automating your business reduce the tax you'll pay? Raising capital gains tax has nothing to do with automation vs human workers. Businesses will already automate whenever doing so is cheaper than employing humans.

Workers aren't currently being employed and paid as a favour, they're being employed because they make the company more money than they cost in wages.

what were you trying to prove with your example ??

i mean i can state that 2+2=6 as an example doesnt mean im not a fucking retard for doing so.

You're entirely missing the point. The other user pointed out, quite correctly, that the idea that people hoarding wealth is common in socialist theory. The argument against it is that wealth is removed from the economy, and therefore is basically a dead weight that does nothing. Which of course is nonsense, and hasn't been true since the middle ages, because wealthy people in the modern era invest that money, and put it to work. It's not dead weight.

You appear to be using hoard in a different sense, but you caused the confusion because because you were unaware of the implications of what you originally wrote.

Keep on being a moron.

>W-we can't even fix anything ever! No point even trying! amirite guys? guys?

>see above

>being able to afford a modest home within a hour's travel from a city is just like being a CEO out of high school guys!11!11!1!one!!one!

>Ok boomer

Attached: Muh trickle down.png (900x550, 863K)

You incorrectly asserted I made an error when you did something that works nothing like how real taxes work, in order to push a false narrative. Again please never work with no way, you don't understand it. You are probably so stupid that you think Bernie plans to tax more than half your income.

Venezuela.

By legislation, by disclosure laws, by getting rid of lobbying and a million other things that you could google easily instead of shitposting about how nothing can ever improve ever and why even try.

>> trickle down economics doesnt exist

then what the fuck was david stockman talking about when he was stating his supply side economics is the "Trickle down idea"

again learn your own fucking political history instead of listening to gotchya reportism ya faggot.

Yeah no. They invest it into their own businesses and the businesses of other wealthy people. It does absolutely no work for the majority of the people. That money serves only to drive inflation because of the deluded fantasy of neverending growth. It actively and slowly fucks the majority of people.

You've made nothing but errors, starting with the claim that there's no way that reducing the number of employers every makes sense. I provided a simple illustration of how increased taxation can lead to employers letting workers go, and you've been furiously demanding that a simplified example provided for purposes of illustration must perfectly match your vision of reality. You've never actually addressed the point being made, so all of this is just deflection.

Does the community as a whole control the means of production in Venezuela?

economies and businesses are driven by people with disposable income. if you're spending all your money on bullshit student debt, astronomical rent, and healthcare, you don't have any to put into the economy and businesses suffer.

Bernie will be great for the economy. But when he wins and we start seeing massive gains, people will pretend Trump did it.

there are plenty of disclosure laws already, how ill that help?
how exactly will get you rid of lobbying?
i can think of many solutions to reduce corruption, not a single one of your suggestions is likely to help in any way

You’re both college fags who think they know shit... you don’t.

The fuck are you talking about!? I'm questioning the Berniebros' idiot ideas of jacking up taxes and thinking it's going to make the State rich which in turn will somehow make the people rich....

"trickle down" doesn't exist. What you mean to speak of is "supply-side" economics, which is a very sound, demonstrated, and practiced economic method.

No surprise, though; anyone who even so mentions "trickle-down" clearly knows nothing of actual economics, nor how business works.

>the ever increasing wage gap.
The wage gap is a product of leftist policies, of barriers to entry, of licensure and strict control of industry. Once again, government proves it is the WORST answer to any given question...

Why do you think taxi licenses were so goddamned expensive in NYC, and that only a very select few companies could even afford to own and operate, and why do you think Uber and Lyft threw such a massive wrench into the taxi industry in NYC that NYC damn near went Chernobyl on itself!? BECAUSE OF BARRIERS TO ENTRY. Any asshole with a car can be a taxi, but in NYC, to be an "approved" taxi, meaning the local legal mafia won't shake you down and kick your sign, you have to pay them lots of money....

The "wage gap" has far less to do with how the government handles money and income and far more to do with the current iron grip the wealthy have on most industries, thanks to government involvement.

I would LOVE if the government came into my sector and said "hey, all these other competitors can't play in your sector until they pay us gobs of money"... Cuz that would mean my competition would plummet, and I'd be able to eat up most all of the market share!

>[they're] just doing it with finance and not violence.
Law and nepotism, actually... Not finance...

Because a whole lot of other things are tax deductible for a very good reason; workers' expenses, charitable donations, depreciation of equipment, etc. etc. etc....

The simplified version doesn't even vaguely reflect reality. You take the taxes off the GAINED AMOUNT. That's simply how it works. That's not a simplified model not perfectly matching reality, you created a fictional model that doesn't even slightly reflect how it works.

You are completely determined to stick with it though, because the retarded, when they convince themselves they know something, refuse to admit even one error. Like you. You retard.

no idea who david stockman is, is he an idiot like you who belives that trickle down economics is a real thing?

trickle down economics is a myth, retardboi
nccivitas.org/2014/myth-trickle-economics/

>Guise, communism is a great idea! Why shouldn't the wealthy few not only own all of the business, but have all of the governing power as well!? It's BRILLIANT, and not at all like what we have now!!

it would be impossible for a socialist to grow any wealth other then his own

my point was and has always been, the increase inequlity within the econemy, and that the monopolies are hoarding a bigger and bigger share every year, the he started throwing around the "commy hoarding money theory" because i said hoarding and he defaults to his argument thats not barely even on topic.

investment does not drive inflation, it drives real growth
inflation is caused by increasing the money supply

>your employer says to you bye-bye to compensate their revenue loss
That's what Republican faggots tell you to make you shit your pants and keep voting for those big tax breaks for the rich

they need to work harder then.

that's a statement of dogma, not a statement of fact

mate im not the one that literally has a failed understanding of the taxation system.

stay out of the finance sector friend.

>Bernie is gonna give us all this free money, guys! He's literally a government Robin Hood!!

This is what Berniebros actually believe.....

Then adjust the example to account for all those factors you want complicating it up, if you want. You still haven't addressed the point -- increasing taxes reduces employment.

Fooled you, I'm a grade school drop out!

I am not an expert in politics, and particularly not american politics.

Are you suggesting that politicians cannot be forced not to be allowed to take money from companies whose businesses will directly benefit from the outcome of their actions in government?

That laws cannot be passed that would force shifty scumbags like trump to present their tax returns before they begin ruling?

You probably don't believe climate change is real either, or that humankind can fix it.

Then stop using "hoarding". It has a specific meaning in a related context, so it's going to keep derailing the conversations you want to have, if you keep using it.

you dont understand it because you wouldnt have posted it if you did.

your example is trying to represent that extra tax can cause buisness to go under. but what your failing to understand is that tax isnt a fixed thing you add onto your buisness, you will ALWAYS have a profit before you arw taxed, and if you dont make a profit you are not taxed.

adding your tax bill before you can calculate profits physically cannot be done.

this makes your example to fall apart and
causes it to loose all meaning.

but again you dont understand any off this, if you did you would have never used that example.

>Such a theory has never existed
t.The retard who wrote that article.
>If we let corporations keep more money they will in turn end up giving more money to their workers
t.Reagan

Sorry to break it to you champ, but Reaganomics IS trickle down. Call it by whatever name you like, it actually is, in practise, that hilariously disproved theory you say doesn't exist. A turd by any other name...

>I don't understand taxation
>so I'm going to project my failure to understand onto others
>dat menes their the dum 1s!
kek

>through trumps "booming" economy my employer fired nearly the entire IT department to outsource it to india.

Who do you think they're referring to when they talk about "the rich", genius?

lol, no. Business is doing fine. The beauty of our market it's that it adapts.

Bernie won't last long as president if he's chosen.
With such plans I'm sure an assassination is quick to follow

Free healthcare is just like soviet russia! The post.

Aren't you needed over on breitbart? They need your kind of wit and insightful perspectives on life over there.

Attached: beans pilled.png (768x768, 671K)

I'm suggesting you're looking at it from the wrong direction. What causes corruption? Not people with money, because there are always people with money. What causes corruption is the ability of those people with money to buy favors. And who do they buy favors from? Legislators and bureaucrats. And the only reason they can give out favors is because they're given the discretion to make judgment calls, or because they can make minor tweaks to the regulatory structure that favor an industry or a single company.

The solution is to cut off the ability to grand those favors. Return to the rule of law, where the rules are clear, and not subject to a wide range of interpretations. Restrict their power, so they can't make all those tiny tweaks.

We have plenty of transparency, conflicts of interest laws, and so on, and it hasn't stemmed the basic problem.

And I don't see why you need to bring up your climate change denial.

>your failing to understand is that tax isnt a fixed thing you add onto your buisness,
Really You're a fucking moron, as usual.

It's not a theory, retard. It's something morons like you invented because it's easier to debunk something that doesn't exist and nobody has ever believed in, than to deal with actual facts, isn't it?

you are clearly an anti-semite! ;)

because "trickle down economics" iant the coloquial term for supply side economics.

and again it works very well for the econemy, because the rich had their shackles taken off and could continue raping the country however they wanted.

ill put it in a way even you could understand dont worry.

the econemy is at 100, 80 owned by tbe elite, 20 owned by the rest,

econemy then grows to 102 82 owned by the elite and 20 owned by the rest.

econemy then grows to 106, 86 owned by the elite and 20 owned by the rest.

this continues year after year untill your average person cant afford your basic shit.

the statistics support this, as this directly representstive of what is occuring.

The average person today is finding it harder and harder to get by, why the monopolies continue to gain a larger and larger piece of the pie. the econemy is still growing, but your not helping your citizens, its all monopoly conglomerates that arnt giving back to the american people.

i mean come on, you cant really expect me to beleive that an american company that makes billions, and employes foreign labour to do it is actuslly helping the american economy

People like me didn't invent Reaganomics. We just gave it a name to reflects the nature of the theory, not the retard who named it.

Stay rarted fren. I'm sure if you just let them keep more money the bosses will give you that raise. Yessir.

Trickle down economics never existed. It's a caricature, invented by people like you. That means the burden is on you to defend it, because nobody else believes in it.

david stockman, ronald reagans budget director.

you know one of the guys WHO FUCKING IMPLEMENTED IT.

one last time before i go to sleep, youve shown your ignorance card and im out.

LEARN YOUR OWN FUCKING POLITICAL HISTORY.

>
about the people that do? They will leave their company, get job in a new one, micro companies will open up to deal with the higher people´s availability. The big companies will shut small will open doing the exact same thing and stabilizing the market

They will fire everyone because they will be going overseas now they get 0 in taxes.
But that will never happen since bernie is not getting elected

dcWEZM lets talk on discord

Not my political history.
So you bring up someone who has nothing to do with your imaginary trickle down economics in an attempt to prove your delusion actually exists?
kek

You heard it here folks, Reaganomics never existed! What a genius. I'm sure reality looks great from the perspective of someone as stupid as you.

>harder to get by
This is a fallacy. There are more stupid things to spend your money on, and social pressure to buy the latest crap. But basic goods are getting cheaper and more accessible all the time. No one is starving, everyone has a car and a mobile phone. People are lazier and don’t want to work but that’s not something we should rely on the government to fix.

not my fault hes militarly grade retarded and cant comprehend there buddy.

Eat me disc0rd.gg/dcWEZM

go to school bud, get a degree in accounting then we can talk.

you wont want to though, after the first 6 weeks of the course youll realise the failing idiocracy of your statements

We bring up the man who helped Reagan implement the policies themselves, who identified it for what it was.

You've gotten everything wrong. Only on Cred Forums would anyone assume that makes them a good candidate for lecturing other people.

You got everything wrong and keep accusing others of doing so. You are hilarious.

check out that white privilege, what a racist piece of shit

Trickle down economics doesn't exist
finance.townhall.com/columnists/danieljmitchell/2016/09/29/the-myth-and-reality-of-trickledown-economics-n2224785

>Buys a house
Builders, Realtor, owner of house, later people who need to re-do pipes and genreally fix the house all get paid. They spend money that they get to pay their debts and buy food, clothing, and everything else they need.

>Buys a car
People who built, designed, programed, supplied materials, etc get paid

You can go on forever with every thing rich people buy.
That being said I don't support them getting tax cuts

it totally isnt though....

food fair enough, a car ? sure these things were lccuring vastly before this reagonmics bullshit occured.

what about housing growth vs wage growth ?

sure you can be a renter and live your life, but you cannot gain a foothold and own anything substantial.

>You got everything wrong and keep accusing others of doing so. You are hilarious.
You described yourself perfectly, user.

i mean your actually so delusional you think ive been the sole person argueing with you this whole time, there are multiple people pointing out you are wrong.

but hey its Cred Forums, it must be that anonymous douchbag up to it again right ?

So you are going to some effort to answer your own questions, why not post that to begin with instead of asking me and talking like nothing can ever change?

Who could possibly be a better choice than Bernie to root out corruption in america?

>the statistics support this
>Posts no statistics

Sure samefag. You never even addressed the central point, and made transparently false claims about me that were easily refuted in earlier posts.

>but you cannot gain a foothold and own anything substantial

Why do you need to? You are a simple goyim and should be happy with the simple things in life. The best things in life are free, after all.

Attached: IMG_20190815_185754.jpg (594x596, 46K)

not doing your homework for you mate.

if i can do it from the other side of the fucking planet you can do it to buddy

I didn't make like nothing can change, I just asked questions, because I wanted to see if you believed what I suspected you believed. There's been a lot of political spin about rooting out corruption, but that's all it is. Spin. Nothing ever happens, and it makes no real difference, because it's dealing with superficialities. We need rule of law and limited government to get rid of cronyism, not Trump's tax returns (which will do exactly nothing), or more conflict of interest laws.

I doubt Bernie will do much, because he's not looking at it the right way.

>Any income under $50k a year should not be taxed

Almost right lemme fix it for you

Any income should not be taxed

literally the biggest load of shit ive read, youve posted nothing of substance, only an opinion tbat was then backed up by failed math.

do the math correctly instead of bitching its too complicated and youll understand that your opinion doesnt work

>I exist
t.Reaganomics

You literally argued that it would never make sense for an employer to reduce the number of employees after a tax increase, I pointed out that was bullshit, using an example. Since then, you've been sperging about irrelevancies and making false claims, because there is literally no way to defend your stupid position.

I'm not the one who made a bullshit example with wonky math to pretend my bullshit makes sense.

Jews have gained a great amount of wealth over the last 40 or so years. Maybe stupid goys are just lazy?

>raise taxes all you want, nobody will ever get laid off!
kek

And most of those people in the 50K range will join the 0K range when their employer cant afford to retain them anymore

Not everyone posts exactly when you wake up you narrow fucking retard

Laugh because their greed will create the revolutionary potential the west has lacked since the Great Depression due to mass unemployment

Americans are fat, stupid and lazy. They're sleeping off sugar comas until at least 9am, usually later.

I wasn't suggesting trump's tax returns would fix murka, rather reflecting that every other president has offered them freely, and he has gone to considerable scumbag efforts to hide them, and they could go some way to showing whose pocket he may be in, and if he is indeed owned by putin and others.

Trump's tax returns are a blatant example of corruption and dishonesty.

Bernie's plan to offer free healthcare to all citizens and taxing the ultra rich is a fantastic way to look at it, and that's before he has even started.

problem is he also wants to come down on the middle and upper middle class - he thinks white people have no idea what poverty is like - he's basically saying what professors have been brainwashing college kids on about white privilege bullshit

30 dollar widget sold at 50 dollars makes you 20 dollars profit.

that 20 dollars is then taxed, not the entire 50 dollars. using your example the tax rate would be 75%

your then doubling a 75% tax rate. to 150% which is physically impossible to do (breaks the example)

so lets work the second half out with your example with the correct math.

30 dollar widget, 65 selling cost, profit is then $35, you then add your "completly possible in the realm of reality" 150% to the equation and your now being taxed more than you earn.

the kicker is, tax cannot physically go over 100% and youll find if you work on any number under 100% then the only thing that will change is the % or profit the owner gets to keep. it will still be a profit regardless of the costings, because you don't pay taxes on money that isnt specificslly profit.

tl;dr: you cannot be taxed into oblivion, you will just increase your profit % to 0, it cannot go negative.

>> higher tax rates lead to employee cuts
>> employee wages are deducted from taxable gains.

what the actual fuck user

Expensive healthcare for everyone just opens up more opportunities for corruption, taxing the ultra rich will make no difference because most of the very rich get their money from investments not income, and the tax return thing is nonsense. It's an unrealistic expectation.

A lot of corporate jobs are fluff and the CEOs know this. They are the first to go. A tax deduction isn't as beneficial as losing dead weight.

You just made up irrelevant adjustments that do not provide any additional clarity, and showed your own failure to understand all the different types of taxes, as I pointed out many posts ago.

You may want to have a seat

how can they not afford to pay them anymore ? please provide an example.

the tax rates are applied to the profit of the company. not the income.

if you employee 10 employees on 100 grand a year, and your company earns 1.1 million, you pay tax on .1 million all of your costs are deducted before tax even comes into effect.

the only reason to fire an employee is because they arn't generating money for the employer, or the buisness has collapsed. increasing taxes only hurts the buisness owner, who the has to make a choice of suffering less profit or cutting employees and production to fall under a lower tax bracket. which in itself then leaves more needs to be fufilled by other buisness's who are willing to accept the lower profit ratio because they dont hace billions of dollars in finace they have to balance.

Bullshit. Every western country in the world has a working free healthcare system funded by taxes.
America's healthcare system is a joke, and people are sick of it.

More bullshit. Taxing the super wealthy will do exactly what it is meant to do, raise revenue for public use. Taxing the world's largest corporations will do even more.

Investments can be classed as income easily enough, there are plenty of ways to go about it.

Bottom line is Bernie is the best chance that country has to avoid downfall, or possibly warren in second place. No doubts about it.

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your actually a troll 7/10 for the effort.

Nah, if you dont put into the system you shouldnt be allowed to decide how it works. Pay taxes and you get to play a role deciding how it's spent.

I think its good for the tax base to pull from a broad section of society. The tax rate on low income individuals averages out to a pretty small amount individually, but the revenue is significant (ex 2000$ per person * 300 million people is 600 Billion annually). It also ensures that the broad population feels ownership over the state, since they are taxpayers.

you didn't pay attention last election cycle, did you? this was huge news and lost him a lot of voters

Attached: erwaerer.png (1351x1067, 492K)

Wow this guy must be in a mental wheelchair

>If thats true then why is automation so cost efficient?

People are actually this dumb. Or he's pretending to be this dumb to get a specific response.

you cant tax people into stagnation tho, they just starting doing the bare minimum to survive, as there is no insentive to even try.

The party of redneck hillbillies on governemnt assistance would never win another election to the smart wealthy left wing this way ;)

Sure you can. It keeps the government elites in power. Next step is to ban guns so they can't do anything about it.

True. But the difference between 15% tax and 0% isn't exactly the difference between homelessness and a penthouse.If you look at the average tax rate on individuals making less than 50k, it's pretty low.

wait what adjustments did he make ?

it seems like he just used your example but did the tax properly.....

>other taxes
sales taxes get paid by the company?
as far as i was aware there are no buisness taxes that arnt linked directly to profit and not income.

do you really think the elites are going to suffer the degredation of their society, just so they can have a little extra profit that will kill itself due to the inevitable inflation ?
na the real trick is in keeping them as poor as possible, but giving them just enough to think they can make it and keep trying
>totally not the current landscape at all.

Employment tax does not care about profit, it's a tax you pay based on the wage of the worker. You hope that they are profitable but often this is up to that individual. Businesses eat this all of the time. Workman's comp and insurance is also essentially a tax not based on profit. They are also taxed on equipment - Obama was big on this. I know a guy who closed his business because he had to pay too many taxes on trucks and other equipment he owned outright.