Is japanese a meme language?

原爆2つでは足りなかったな

Does English have the highest information rate or is it only above of those in the table?

Two factors:
1) How fast the language is spoken (avg. syllables/sec)
2) Information per syllable. A syllable is considered to contain "low" information if it is easy to predict what syllable comes after it, and "high" information if it is difficult.

>non-indo-european """"""""""""""""""""language"""""""""""""""""""
not even once

Spanish is a lot lower than that

Nah spanish is spoken so fast

>Is japanese a meme language?

Yes.
Perhaps...

I think that there are more meaningful information in 2ch (5ch), though...
(Excist these comments "wwwwwww" "草" "よろしくﾆｷｰ" "せやろか?" etc)

Only those in the table.
You can find the full paper here:
ddl.ish-lyon.cnrs.fr/fulltext/pellegrino/Pellegrino_to appear_Language.pdf

Where does Hindi rank?

日本人でそんなことを書くやつは居ない
There isn't any Japanese who write like that.

お前は外国人
You are a foreigner.

And yet they can't really any info

Go visit my thread on india chan
Cred Forums

LOL 分かりまでん! 私は日本語を話さない。

What's the point comparing this and how did OP come up with this question?

Link pl0x

Do you really want me to link that site?LOL
Just go to Cred Forums and find this image

Link the thread mate. I ain't willing to browse that board

English syllables are huge when compared to latin derived ones (which hardly have 4+ letters). It's not really a fair system desu.

I think english transmits information in a less fluid way because your verb congiugation is pretty much non-existent, meaning that you have to repeat the subject constantly (I did, I'm eating, I'll go, etc.), while in other languages you can often omit the "I".

That's p weird, isn't Japanese one of the slowest languages aswell?

indiachan.com/boards/b/thread/19991/

It's the second fatest just after spanish

>Logographic languages
>implying writing systems are relevant when examining a language
don't say dumb shit like this user

>Italian
>implying you're a human
don't say dumb shit like this user

what is it with mutts?
why do they always get super butthurt when someone correctly refutes their arguments

Бля pacиcткий пиздaбoл хyeв.

I would have expected English to be pretty slow, what with having lots of particles and shit, sometimes for seemingly little reason (ex: do support). Japanese being slow makes sense, I would imagine agglutination and high morpheme per word would make it a bit slower to convey ideas. That said, the speed at which you convey information isn't all that matters, the study doesn't seem to account for ambiguity and ease of learning.

It's not just mutts, it's just mostly mutts. Anyway even if it's dumb it's not exactly hard to understand, the stereotypical response of a dumb person to being shit on is with rage.

>Information per character
the most dense: Chinese
2nd: Japanese
3rd: Korean

>meaninglets

>Japan is white niggerlets/sand niggerlets

I mean he's write (get it lol?).

Most of the asian writing systems are either from PIE or Chinese.

Japan created it's own writing system with complicated rules to try and adapt to the Chinese characters to Japanese phonology.

Korean is an exception. It's symbols actually reflect how you pronounce the words physically in your mouth. It is unironically better than the Latin Alphabet we use.

The reason why Japanese is so low compared to the other languages is because they considered "ん" a separate syllable on its own, which is not true, ん is one mora unit (i.e. a "short syllablae") just like the rest of kana, Japanese is not a syllable-based language so
to make a fairer comparison we would have to consider one mora as one short syllable and two morae as a long sylable, just like in Latin, Hawaiian and other mora-based languages.

No, because the study is dealing with "prosody", which is a branch of linguistics, and therefore deals with language, writing systems have nothing to do prosody.

Trash study, have you seen the sample size they used?

I was strictly referring to the writing system criticism user had.

True but we also have a more logical structure of grammar. I hit her. She hit me.

We don't say things like, She I hit. It goes in a logical order left to right, like an equation.

That's because English is a living language. It is constantly growing and accomodating new words. All Romance languages and many other languages (like Slavic ones) are dead, because they cannot grow. Since they can't form new words they have to borrow them from other languages (mostly English.)

In German, if you want to create a new word, you just string a bunch of other words together, like lebesmittelgeschaft. In English, you can just make up new words that eventually become universally used out of necessity, like "computer" for example. Japanese and Chinese is pictographic, so you just string pictographs together to form the idea you want to convey.

this is going to sound really sjw but
you realize that sentence structure only sounds more logical to you because that's the language you were raised with right?

>Hangeul is unironically better than the Latin Alphabet we use.
No it doesn't, especially if you are comparing it to languages with a very transparent orthography (i.e. Finnish, Greek, Italian, Spanish, etc.), this would be extremely obvious to anyone that knows Hangeul or at least Revised Romanization.
This is because Hangeul was invented in the middle of the 15th century and Middle Korean at that time had a kind of like very unstable phonology and a lot of changes were happening (similar to the Great vowel shift in English or the "Reajuste de silabantes" in Spanish), the changes took place but Hangeul wasn't totally updated to relfect modern day pronunciation of Korean

Finnish however has an infinite potential for growth and forming of new words can generally be done without loanwords from English. However while this is technically possible, we still have a huge shit amount of English loanwords for silly reasons. Especially in technical vocabulary.

a lower information rate language has forced the Japanese to adapt by developing a higher IQ so they can properly understand eachother

not sure if you're trolling but i've posted this chart before and the nips unironically claimed this
something about being able to read between the lines

>look! some random ass metric shows languages differ in one way! This means this language is superior!

brainlet

Ah, yes. Their "kuuki o yomu" (read the atmosphere) bullshit they think is unique to them. Island people are weird.

>t. armchair """linguist"""
neologisms exist in all languages, what are you talking about? and besides, "computer" comes from the word "compute" which is actually a loanword from French, "computer" which comes from Latin "computare" plus the suffix "-er"

>writing systems are either from PIE
lol wat the fuck

>True but we also have a more logical structure of grammar.

Why is american education so fucking awful?

ya idk that was some enormous bullshit he wrote. icelandic and hungarian don't have shittons of neologisms just cause they "can grow" and "are alive", but they just don't want to use loanwords or culturally have just made their own words.

that was some giga-omega armchair linguism.

No you are korean

Yes but what you are referring to is "Linguistically Correct/Logical". With most IE language adjectives must be the same gender as the noun they apply to.

Logically you shouldn't need to apply a gender to an adjective as it just complicates the langauge. The adjective already comes before the noun anyways. It does allow for more creativity in how you structure the sentence, similar to Greek.

And yes I know about PEMDAS and how it's not actually left to right. But you get the point.

But it is the concept of conveying a physical instrustion of pronounciation that counts. Also it just needs to be updated.

Language itself is just translating visuals to auditory then to a written system. Hangeul does this very well because the written system itself is a visual concept.

Most languages don't have a perfect alphabet. English has words that haven't been updated to where the average speaker cannot correctly pronounce them by just reading it.

This. But to be honest the whole Japan culture worship from Westerners is partly to blame for this. It's gone to their head, and now they think stuff like ''kuuki o yomu'' and ''honne and tatemae'' are things that other cultures could simply never fathom. The honne and tatemae pisses me off because it has been thoroughly discussed by Western philosophers and and psychologists for centuries, notably Carl Jung and his definition of persona.

>ソウルの舗装道路には核廃棄物が練り込んであり、東京の8倍近い非常に高い放射線量が検出されている
原爆大好きなキムさん、お早う

>Logically you shouldn't need to apply a gender to an adjective as it just complicates the langauge.
You see it as complicating it, but when you grow up with a system like that, you just know it inherently and the end result is having a more precise means of communicating compared to English. The English language is very imprecise compared to French for example.

WTF IS THAT??????

Japanese has retarded unpractical bullshit like having a counter for everything.

Imagine that instead of saying "two pencils" or "two dogs" or "two books" you say "tworpt pencils" "twocoms dogs" "twokae books"

Or how they just decide that saying 20 years old is "hatachi" because ??? while you'd say "number-sai" for every other.

why you mad?

i expected german to be before english and french behind italian tb h

There's no defending your autistic language on such archaic and arbitrary rules.

>let's also pronounce minutes different according to the number because ???

What's the point of counter words and why do they even exist?

This graph is meaningless for those who understand anything about linguistics.

hahaha

Classifiers exist in a lot of languages not just Japanese

Languages are memetic, meaning that if something works well enough to remain popular and spread, that's all that fucking matters.
Human languages aren't computer languages, you insufferable fucking autist.

...

>>let's also pronounce minutes different according to the number because ???
because of phonology, it's not a big deal you know, all languages worldwide have shit like that, Japanese is not a special case.

What the fuck Asia

Japanese language changed after WW2 because it a was fucking unpractical language even more so than it is today. Why do you think they adopted all the foreigner katakana words?

holy shit

a-are you ok?

A murder of crows, a gaggle of geese, a parliament of owls. English has them too to an extent.

English has counter words too. 2 sheets of paper, 2 slices of bacon, two loaves of bread, 2 pieces of information. English is probably worse because you don't know if a word needs counters or can just directly add the number in front.

Classifiers and collective nouns are different.

Collective nouns are not classifiers, it's still 2 owls, 3 owls, 2 dogs, 3 dogs.

Fuck off, brainlet.

Honestly, Japanese sounds like a primitive African language. Japanese has a total of 100 syllables and doesn’t even have the all-important schwa. Mansa Musa, Kunta Kinte, Shaka Zulu sound like Japanese words.

Japanese got an ortographic and script reform in 1946, not a big deal, a lot of languages also have had ortographic reforms, for example the "Ortografía de la lengua española" in 2010 for the Spanish language or "Reform der deutschen Rechtschreibung" in 1996 for German.
>because it a was fucking unpractical language even more so than it is today
What do you exactly mean by that? Japanese has been the only official language in Japan since like forever, it has a long literary tradition, it is official in Japan, it has a refulatory body, it has a healthy native population, the language is passed down to further genertions and it's used as a semiofficial language in some international organizations like the World Bank Group.

>information rate
Seems very arbitrary. What factors does it include?

>doesn’t even have the all-important schwa

Why is schwa important

>amerimutts honestly believe this
French makes new words all the times, they're just mostly slang. Or the Academie française does it, sometimes the words they create stick, sometimes they don't. Are anglos honestly so retarded that they think that other languages don't make up their own words?

>Why do you think they adopted all the foreigner katakana words?
The proportion of gairaigo words in Japanese are highly overestimated by gaijins, in reality they represent around 5% of words in the Japanese language, they are just easy to spot because they are basically all the times written in katakana.

the most important factor : making retarded anglos have a bloated superiority complex about their meme language

But that chart is wrong. How is it possible that french expresses ideas at a higher rate than spanish when french has useless word/expressions ?

YOUR MOM

Not really.

English is just as impercise as other languages.

For example to say "I feel" requires different adverbs. As you you cannot say "I feel good" instead you say "I feel well". Similarly other languages have exceptions like the Accusative case in Russian which varies depending on if the noun is animate/inanimate. Yes I like cases too, because it is an effective way to accomplish the same goal of subject/object differentiation.

Anything past a case for possession, subject, and object is unnecessary.

And yes it sounds "logical" and correct to them. But honestly it is a pain in the ass.

This isn't race where you can say it evens out.

Language is akin to culture and there are inferior and superior languages and rules. It is a fine balance between making your language efficient but not complicated.

I'm a huge fan of the Korean writing system, but the fact that "symbols actually reflect how you pronounce the words physically in your mouth" is not really relevant to anything. The writing system is revolutionary compared to other Asian writing systems (especially considering it was created in fucking 15th century), but I feel like it has 1000 advantages that you could have mentioned instead of "the letters are like your tongue lol".

Anyway the biggest disadvantage of Hangeul in the modern age is, imo, its limited readability at large distances (think street signs) and in small fonts (think computer screens). I think the Latin alphabet fares much better in these tasks.

Because the French don't pronounce all the syllables thus those that get pronounced have a higher information density thus French has a higher information/syllable rate than Spanish.

>Are anglos honestly so retarded that they think that other languages don't make up their own words?
That's what happens when you're a brainlet who only knows one language. There's a reason the rest of the world sees amerimutts as simple goyim cattle.

>It is a fine balance between making your language efficient but not complicated.
You're delusional in thinking English isn't overly simplified for reasons of spreading it as lingua franca, therefore making it imprecise.
In English, you would say ''I met your brother and your sisters. I really liked them'' The second sentence makes it ambiguous if the person meant he liked the sisters specifically or the brother too.
In French, you would say ''J'ai rencontré ton frère et tes soeurs. Je les ai bien aimées.'' This makes it clear that the speaker meant he liked the sisters specifically, thanks to proper gender conjugation.
English got overly simplified and lost its way to communicate with precision. Deal with it, it's the price to pay to be lingua franca, the complicated aspects are done away with.

Probably because japs have a lot of homophones?

Their homophones are ridiculous. They should just make up their own words.

>hurr japanese is the least efficient language

One problem with hangeul is there are multiple ways to write something but only one correct spelling. Once you learn the handful of non obvious pronunciation rules, pronouncing written words is very easy but writing is sometimes difficult for foreigners because you sometimes can't write a word correctly if you only hear it.

I'm convinced that culture plays a pretty big role in it.
The Japanese tend to imply so many things (they only understand what they're trying to imply only among themselves though) without actually saying anything it hurts. It seems logical for their language to also reflect that 2bh. But then again I'm no linguist so I don't really know what "information rate" is about.

>better education system

There are very few languages where this is not a problem, to be fair. In Korean, you are mostly fine with spelling if you are familiar with the roots based on 한자 (Chinese characters), which is still easier than having to actually learn the Chinese characters like in Chinese or Japanese.

It's ok

onomatope rich

>to accommodate niggers.
it all started with accommodating daneniggers though, English went down hill from there

what the absolute fuck is "information rate"?

Japanese is literally just pidgin-bastardized Mandarin.

>language is purely utilitarian

how to spot a pleb 101

Simply how quickly information can be conveyed. Japanese have to talk fast to get the same amount of information out that we could in the same time with fewer words.

You are a genuine retard. Have you even heard Mandarin before you stupid idiot? Mandarin has fucking tones you moron. Mandarin also has completely different grammar you dumb imbecile.

I like this post

>english
>informative

that's asserting dominance

>Waseda Technology-Science
Totally the same thing as the thing beneath.

But the kanji can have different meanings right?

I would post a sign in response, but no one puts Japanese on their signs.

その数字が低いと何なんだよ…

Why are gaijins so stupid wtf

情報を伝えるのに時間がかかるってことじゃない?

smarter than you

あぁ、そういうことね
サンクス

ya but it sounds way nicer than chink speak

>study conducted by anglos finds out English is the most efficient
Fucking lmao, fuck outta here with that shit

A loaf of bread, a sheet of paper, etc.
retard

でも、日本には、空気を読むとか、以心伝心って言葉があるんよね・・・
There are words " 空気を読む Read between the lines "
and " 以心伝心 tacit understanding"...

Those are not counters, retard.
>two slices of bread, two paper sheets

el mexicANO

I want to kiss you.

gaikokujin are not capable of understanding

fuck off

>Buenos Aires is a country

Japanese language able to describe gender, position, age, character, intelligence, Number in one sentence

holy shit

Americans are stupid!!

more precise

僕はリンゴを食べます
I eat an apple
I eat apples
I will eat an apple
I will eat apples

Yes, very descriptive and not utterly reliant on context at all.

sabse neeche yaar

Japanese language is most flexible language ever.

for example

良識に欠ける、漁師気に掛ける
this two sentence is same pronunciation but totally different meanings, only Japanese language able to describe such a expressions.

that's mean Japanese language has the most variety expressions among all of languages

What’s the unit of these numbers?

>良識に欠ける
>漁師気に掛ける

…………………

俺はリンゴを食べる
私はリンゴを食べます
あたいはリンゴを食します
僕はリンゴをいただきます
拙者はリンゴをごちそうになる
小生はリンゴをいただき候

that's all mean "i eat an apple"

actually, able to farther more expressions

>flexible

Buzzword that has no linguistic meaning.

>only Japanese has homonyms
How to spot the semi-monolingual pleb.

- хyяce, нa хyя дo хyя нaхyяpили? pacхyяpивaй нa хyй!
- нa хyя pacхyяpивaть? нaхyяpили дo хyя и хyй c ним.
- ни хyя нe дo хyя, пoхyй, пoхyяpили!

Relative values that vietnamase is set to be 1

shitposts/minute

Japanese language has a three characters.

this three characters able to describe every foreign languages words.

カステラ、ポット、コンプライアンス、エアプレーン、プチ、アルバイト

even able to use like Japanese sentence

バイトする、ボイコットする、エスケープする、まじパねー、さぼる

that's mean all of languages words are Japanese language

Hey, go хyй

Japanese language is using Kanji, this Kanji able to make infinity expressions

even just say rain Japanese has few hundreds kinds of words.

for example
秋雨、大雨、霧雨、小糠雨、涙雨、俄雨、隠雨、煙雨、穀雨、弾雨、氷雨、雷雨 etc

you know.

Japanese language is most advanced language ever.

マジパネェは完全な日本語だぞ…

Wrong. The right way to say "fuck off" is "go нaхyй". Also what I cited roughly translates as:

- Wow, why have you loaded that much? Unload it!
- Why would you unload it? Yes it's overloaded but who cares.
- No, it's not overloaded, I don't care, let's go!

Please, stop spitting roaches.

...

I wonder if weebs who learn Japanese end up sounding like little girls accidentally.

The unironic brainlets in this thread are appalling.

What is study is measuring is the size of the phonology, how many homonyms there are, and how regular and predictable word formation is.

How well one can predict the succeeding syllable has no relation to the amount of vocabulary-level information contained because ultimately different words mean different things regardless of how they are pronounced and spelled.

tl;dr you are retarded.

>We don't say things like, She I hit.

Well, yeah, but guess what? Languages that use "she I hit" order actually have declensions to actually determine what are the grammatical functions of the words.

And about the logical structure...

>The ability of PET to detect cancer is based on the altered substrate requirements of malignant cells, which result from increased nucleic acid and protein synthesis and glycolysis.

"altered" is related to "substrate" or "requirements"?

"which" is related to "malignant cells", or the whole nominl group "the altered substrate requirements of malignant cells"?

"increased" is related to "acid", "synthesis" or "synthesis and glycolysis"?

"nucleic" is related to "acid", "acid and protein" or "synthesis"?

"protein" is related to "synthesis" or "synthesis and glycolysis"?

Guess, what, all those very ambiguous structure in English would be much clearer is other delension-based languages.

To be fair, those Japanese concepts aren't exactly the western equivalent you're thinking of.
Especailly the "read between the lines" thing.

It's not just the basic level of understanding that you'd expect in western society, it's layers of abstraction to convey the simplest thing, so that you can be polite even when you have to say rude things.
It's a culture in which you have to constantly consider the social standing of the other person even when you're a child talking with other children, it only looks unnecessary to someone who doesn't know anything about why it's a thing to begin with.

Yes, people who see it as a reason for pride are retarded, but claiming that the Japanese "reading the mood" concept is anything like the western one is equally ignorant.

Who even needs English when Mandarin is the future?

>>Or how they just decide that saying 20 years old is "hatachi" because ???

Because the hata denomination for 20 is part of the archaic numbering system. Chi acts as a counter.
「はた」= 20
「ち」= 助数詞
It was carried over for cultural reasons since 20yo is seen as a milestone.

You don't really get to REEEEE about languages you don't know jackshit about.
Please come back when you've at least passed your N5 exam, you /djt/ reject.

Get out of the Philippines, Romulo Chang

Not to mention that they usually don't mean what the corresponding English word would mean.

More informative than you, 56%.

To much:
Anoooo
Sonooo
Are waaa-
Esto ne

>Korean is an exception. It's symbols actually reflect how you pronounce the words physically in your mouth. It is unironically better than the Latin Alphabet we use.

I see this argument presented all the time, yet no one ever considers that Latin is spoken exactly as written, and it's thousands of years old.
Of all the languages derived from it, Italian was the only one to keep the "Words are always pronounced exactly as written" concept, for some reason I can't fathom.

I'm no linguist, but I'd wager that it happened because, like latin, most of the Italian influence was felt through literature and art, needing a consistent writing system that couldn't possibly be misunderstood, while languages like English are a phonetic mess because their spread was completely verbal for the most part.

Source on image? Interesting if true but you're fucking retarded if you believe things without source.

But every language has those.
It's just like "Ummm", "Weeell", "Thinking of it..."
They just allow the speaker to gather their thoughts before actually saying things

What about when you fuckers have a zz and sneak in t in there

What?

no

You do know that computer was a word before the magic screen box, right?

Information rate varies across languages, but even then no information that isn't really "necessary" is going to get sent. Japanese has a pretty high syllable to word count, but at that rate, incorporating languages like Inuktitut, Tlingit, etc would all be very "inefficient" by that metric. Anyone trying to rank languages by how good they are at transmitting information is meming desu.

Oh also syllabic density and all that but realistically it's not going to help/hinder your ability to have a conversation, you'll just speak faster or slower. They're just symbols.

and as stated above, in the study they considered "ん" and chouonpu vowels to be a syllable, which is not true, their actual syllabic content is one mora, which equals one short syllable, two morae equals a long syllable (i.e. a syllable), and that's why Japanese got a shorter value compared to the other languages studied.

>like "computer"

"information rate" is such a retarded way to evaluate a language.

>All Romance languages and many other languages (like Slavic ones) are dead, because they cannot grow. Since they can't form new words they have to borrow them from other languages (mostly English.)
Is this real? I want to think that you are a Russian shitposting bot whose purpose is to make America look bad.

>It's why english has become more retarded over time, to accommodate niggers.

French is the language of niggers.

>0.91 english informational density
>0.94 mandarin informational density
The Chinese century truly is inevitable.

cute!!!

...

Japanese needs subtitles in their TV shows and shit because their language is littered with homonyms

Seriously how many fucking meanings do しょう きょう かん かい しん and so on have?

(+_+)

I have never seen even a preliminary informal proposal showing that Japanese has a higher proportion of homophones compared to other languages, just memes on internet forums

mpi.nl/q-a/questions-and-answers/homophones-2013-what-are-they-and-why-do-they-exist-at-all
mentalfloss.com/article/93719/do-any-languages-besides-english-have-homophones
tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09296170500500850?scroll=top&needAccess=true

yes any language that doesn't have an alphabet is a meme.

>I have never seen even a preliminary informal proposal showing that Japanese has a higher proportion of homophones compared to other languages, just memes on internet forums
fuck you are dumm

You see this in every colonial language,american english,brazillian portguuese,latin spanish,etc are all impure shit full of slangs and shit

show me the figures little piece of shit

>take an adjective and shove "rain" after it
>merely take no space between sounds
>it's now a whole new word

Heavy rain, drizzle, downpour, misting, sprinkling, icy rain, summer rain, shower, cloudburst, torrential rain...

...

日本語:
>9000 strokes in a single character, takes forever to write, as opposed to English where you can scribble a word in approximately one second
>strokes all have to be totally exact or it can look like an entirely different character, whereas english can get pretty fucking sloppy before you can't read it
>takes 100 syllables to say a 2-syllable english word in 片仮名. Baioretto (4) instead of Violet (2).
>no L/R distinguishment
>only have a given block size to print any character. Compare any english letter to trying to cram in a giant fucking complex kanji with 9 different radicals in it to a 12 pt font character field.
>writing system was originally backwards, only assume they write backwards (to them) now because nip sites write in english direction. Got cucked into reading everything backwards because we made the internet first.
>saying "you" is rude so every fifth word a nip utters is the other person's name. Essentially fellating the conversational partner. Results in annoying shit like KUROSAKI-KUN KUROSAKI-KUN KUROSAKI-KUN.
>politeness levels, always have to lower your head and talk like a bitch if the other person is even five seconds older than you
>下さいください下さいください all the time.

How the fuck do nips even type?

What exactly is information rate?