Did DC Comics Game The System With Creative Bankruptcy?

the point being that they go against the grain of what people expect from a capeshit book and instead go for a saturday morning cartoon feel

>Marvel mixes it up with Riri williams, Jane foster, Mikes morales, Amadeus cho, Iceman and angela
How are these characters mixing things up?

>they're going for a Saturday morning cartoon feel
Oh then they fucked up big time.

Racemixing it up.

Because they are gay, black, wimmen. Not straight white males basically.

they aren't straight white males

DC has those too

>there are more people tuning in to watch reruns of Dragonball Z at midnight on Saturday every week than people buying both Marvel and DC comics combined

How does that make you faggots feel?

>DC Comics has, at a push, Harley Quinn and Green Arrow

What no mention of the the fact that the core Green Lantern title stars a Muslim man and a Latina?

Shhhhhhhhh. It's only good when Marvel does it.

that's an insult to saturday morning cartoons

>they go against the grain of what people expect from a capeshit book.
That is true cause I expect some form of entertainment from a capeshit book.

they're fucking YA out of the gate, user
Super Powers back-up and an unrelated Super Powers ongoing
Way on multiple books at once, while basically editing
Way didn't know Shade and Carson until finding them on Wikipedia
Author of Shade is a prototypical SJW geek girl
Mother Panic from the woman who brought us Faith
killing Vertigo
wtf are they doing, this feels like DC:You but less interesting
it's like they don't want it to be successful

>Green Lantern title stars a Muslim man and a Latina?
Or that Apollo and Midnighter are getting a solo mini

Completely indifferent.

DC will always be the Trump of comics, isn't it?

>implying Capeshit isn't Saturday morning cartoon tier
That's why cereal lord is such a good capeshit writer.

>Super Powers back-up
Man I'm buying Cave Carson to rip out those pages and keep them

Out of everything on OP's image, what is actually good?

> people want more gays
> we have one of the best gays getting a mini, with a decent writer even
> people ignore it
> "b-but why can't X date men?"

yeah, fuck that shit.

People will probably tell you Ms.Marvel

>still caring about who sells more when comics in general will never pass an average of 100,000 books sold

You guys know how incredibly niche that makes this hobby?

scarlet witch started strong, but I don't know about its quality now. Ditto for Ms. Marvel.

Ms. Marvel, Wolverine, and Moon Girl. Mockingbird should be on there, because that's a good one too.

Nothing.

DC knows how to make comics though. It's not like they're jumping into a completely different market/profession.

How many times has DC declared bankruptcy?

Hold on guys. I just have to grab my tin foil

I'm talking about them constantly hating on them not matter what they do.

>although that is an issue.

Oh fuck off!!

>bringing up creative bankruptcy when Disney/Marvel is in the conversation

top laff

Disney is the prototype for creative bankruptcy and Marvel's creative decisions these days are based on how many of their fans they can piss off.

>this means an absolute lack of anything vaguely experimental.
oh fuck off you pretentious twat
everyone with a brain in their head knew you were being a troll with the line
>And I don’t just mean regarding ethnicity, gender or sexuality – although that is an issue.

and yes I realize OP didn't write this article but whoever did is a hack

>but DC Rebirth is incredibly homogeneous, especially considering the titles that DC had published of late.
Yes, because for all those fucking years people have been saying
WE WANT THE OLD COMICS BACK
Fuck your tumblr "these comics I don't read should be something I want to post pirated copies of more often"
and fuck the whole "they should make a black green lantern, a hispanic blue beetle, an asian atom"
BECAUSE THEY FUCKING DID AND NO ONE BOUGHT IT

First the writer's article forgets that DC experimented with the N52 and failed. The main DC's main characters are far more iconic than Marvel's, with almost a century of history, so trying to experimented the way that Marvel means the "experiment" i.e. turn them to females, changing their race etc, well wouldn't do any good. Besides DC has a Multiverse, which means that they still can experiment (and they are doing it, see New Superman for example), with alternative versions or takes of the main characters, without killing off, replacing, changing drastically the story of well esteblished DC icons.

Mexican blue beetle.
Chinese Superman
Cyborg
bi curious scouser

Fuck this "article"

The autistic Laura is awfull. And she will never be the Wolverine. She will always be the clone X-23. The Wolverine is dead. So fuck off Marvel.

>Mockingbird
>Tampons are cool guise, muh age gap
>good

Did Mockingbird writers ever realize that the way they wrote Bobbi's backstory made her sound first-world problems as hell because it made it seem like they truncated her history meaning she's now a wealthy, supergenius, superpowered superspy in her early twenties?

While the article is ridiculously biased, i do wish DC You had been more successful, DC Rebirth is fine, but i really liked DC taking a more experimental approach.

It's not only that. It's just that it's plain wrong. There is diversity in the line

Well you see, Young Animal, Hellblazer, Green Arrow, The Flintstones don't count because uhhhh

Also funny to me that books like Grayson, Gotham Academy, Batgirl, Midnighter would be considered "mixing it up", but no longer count because they are continuing in roughly the exact same form.

DC also experimented with New 52 and nobody bought those titles

Well done DC
nigga what

>Did DC Comics Game The System With Creative Bankruptcy?

Did DC "game the system" by giving people what they want?

> Accusing DC of being creatively bankrupt
> While Marvel is publishing Civil War 2

>Marvel is killing the reputation of modern comics (people usually just assume comics=capeshit)
>DC is fixing that with Rebirth
Feels good

> but i really liked DC taking a more experimental approach.

I don't even understand this opinion because a ton of the greater plot points of DCYou form the basis of Rebirth and that the majority of the most well received creative teams from that launch were promoted to writing the big books.

I don't know about Nu52, but I'm pretty sure Bleeding Cool or one of the other larger comic sites basically said DCYou didn't count either.

DC slapped the shit outta Bleeding Cool and now they have to make them look bad

RIP

...

Wait, I'm really confused. So she (Please god I hope a woman wrote this) listed a whole bunch of female books Marvel is doing but didn't list the ones for DC?

So what are the chances of some writer at Marvel being so petty to the point of making a jab at Rebirth's success?

I didn't know it cost 3 dollars to watch a TV show at your house

It's not that DC is creatively bankrupt compared to Marvel's wide diversification.

It's that DC is trimming the fat and pushing what they know will sell based on the past five years. They're paying attention to readers, not followers.

>I don't know about Nu52

The New 52 was incredibly diverse in genre. When was the last time you had a fucking war comic or western from Marvel?

>fixing that with Rebirth
How is Rebirth not just more capeshit?

>Marvel is literally retreading the clone saga
>but somehow DC is creatively bankrupt

Yeah but most people prefer King's Omega men over his Batman, Williams Martian Manhunter over his Suicide Squad or Tynon's Hellblazer over his Detective Comics.

And where's my damn Creeper mini by Brendan McCarthy, DC?

a book featuring just simon baz and jessica cruz is selling almost as well as the book that has hal jordan and his amazing friends

i wish we still had sage for threads like these

starfire and black canary's solo books from that era were fun. i hope those supporting characters get to show up again someday

less than 1 in 3,000 people?

I assume Slott or Spencer already have. They seem to be the gruesome twosome of Marvel on twitter

I agree with this. DC went all out with trying to appeal to new readers. They wiped the continuity and promoted LGBT and mixed race stuff.

But none of these bloggers who bitch about diversity brought it, none of them. So DC went back, grovelling, to their core audience.

>here's my damn Creeper mini by Brendan McCarthy, DC?

He's doing two full issues of Doctor Fate first. Hopefully he'll do the Creeper next before he either goes back to Dark Horse for more Dream Gang or starts working on the next Mad Max

I'm referring to whether or not comic review sites admitted to DC having a diverse lineup.

Red Wolf, sorta. I'm pretty sure there was awhile where we didn't have any mystical books coming out of Marvel either.

What a stupid article. It's creative bankrupt turning back to the fundamentals? Bringing back the elements that makes you successful in the first place?

No my dear writer, the creative bankrupt, it's what Marvel is doing NOW. Shitty events, idiotic gimmicks that only people of really low IQ could fool. Changing the name of She-Hulk in Hulk, it's called creativity, progress and "diversity? Sorry but between this kind of "creativity and diversity", i choose DC's Rebirth's current more orthology approach.

Besides isn't this the same site that was asking from Marvel to go through its "own Rebirth a couple of days ago? What happen to this?

>Civil War 2
>All Now 2.
>Experimental

>he doesn't have a cable or satellite subscription

>i wish we still had sage for threads like these

wat

you do still have sage

>western from Marvel?
Secret Wars had that Wild West battleworld

I meant by fixing the reputation of comic book capeshit

>>Civil War 2
>>All Now 2.
>>Experimental
>Enemy of the state 2

The only books that were worth a shit that we lost in the transition from DCYou to Rebirth were Starfire and Omega Men.

Prez lives on in the spirit of the Flintstones, Midnighter got another mini, Son of Batman is transitioning into Super Sons, Martian Manhunter team is on Suicide Squad, Black Canary is a big part of Green Arrow (the most visually experimental of all the core titles), etc.

Bless Didio for giving me as much All Star Western as he did.

Well, hopefully. But DC seem to be against experimenting right now.

Don't forget Inhumans vs X-Men and Ressuroxion!

>Omega Men
King also went exclusive, says on his twitter that he is pitching lots of smaller ideas. So we should be getting more like this.

Rebirth is DC reestablishing their tent poles.

Maybe if all of Marvel's titles stop repeating the same message over and over and ACTUALLY TOLD A STORY, people would care.

god damn i miss that book. Where's my vibe/booster gold multiverse adventure book?

Sage still works breh. Just not when you use an image.

I don't know man, I don't think their minis are very experimental either.

I don't know much about what the big two are doing now, but at least DC has me interested with the Young Animal line.

Also with all the female hero comedy books selling, you think they would have kept Shulk as a light hearted character but instead they're going tortured soul with a fractured mind with her. What's up with that?

>DC seem to be against experimenting right now.

inb4 Kamandi challenge is cancelled

Same.

What do you consider experimental?

Well, we haven't heard anything about it since it was first announced and we know solicitations all the way up until December, so...yeah. Stealth canceled.

>DC seem to be against experimenting right now.
What does this even mean? It's such a superfluous statement.

Can the author actually quantify what he means?

>retreading the clone saga
>still not going to bring back Ben Reilly

There are exactly like 4 Marvel books that you could reasonably consider "experimental" in terms of tone and style.

Guess how many Young Animal books there are?

Those are just one step from being akin to having a land phone line.

Is Red Wolf still going? I haven't heard shit about it since it was first announced and then Ales Kot tried to imply that the guy who was writing it was a rapist.

Except that's bollocks

> Changing the name of She-Hulk in Hulk

W-WHAT? Explain

Like it's been mentioned, give Brenda McCarthy a Creeper mini, he's recently said that he's up for it if DC wants it(he picthed it years ago)
Other than that Omega Men was experimental. So was Martian Manhunter. If DC has an old man fetish then give Matt Wagner some work, don't keep calling on Jurgens. And hire Si Spurrier for a gig.

>Also with all the female hero comedy books selling

They're not selling. It's why OP's article menuoins the mythical "Future new audiences"

DC is not experimenting now huh?

Then i suppose that a new fresh take like the Flintstones one, doesn't count. And when indeed, we have a new take, then there are a thousand fags out there whinning that these are not "muh Flintstones", even if this is awesome comic.

The article is completely bullshit, If someone read comics they would know that DC is still experimenting, just not with the retarded way that Marvel does.

>Except that's bollocks
I wouldn't disagree with it. I think DC is trying to stabilise their tent poles. Once those are selling well they can look to branch out.

She-Hulk is now just the Hulk except Civil War has left her scarred all over and mentally unstable.

The bulk of those female hero comedy books sell like used tampons.
Marvel pretends they're successful because it makes them look good, but most do numbers that would have gotten anything else cancelled.

She-Hulk is the one character who matches that sort of tone, but they won't play her that way because the more traditional capeshit sells better.

>There are exactly like 4 Marvel
I can only count two. And just because Marvel are being shit doesn't mean Dc should too. DC has always been more experimental.

but DC didn't make Fred black and Barney gay, so it doesn't count.

I just realize this is probably why they are getting their ass kicked by DC. It's probably less Rebirth being good, but more Marvel just redoing the worth parts of the 90s mixed in with the 00s.

>Guess how many Young Animal books there are?
Just look at the back ups. Tom Scioli and Gilbert Hernandez are the type of artists who you typically wouldn't see out side of something like Strange Tales or Bizarro Comics

Silk, Captain Marvel and A-Force are all fun reads

>Kaine still AWOL
>his and Aracely's story will never be completed
It hurts to live

>So was Martian Manhunter.

It was drawn by a house artist and occassionally took a detour into the weird, but I hard consider it experimental in any real sense. It was just compelling and well written. It would fit well into the Rebirth line.

I'm not quite sure what that user was talking about, but I did see a bit from an interview with Alonso saying that the She-Hulk name didn't fit with the direction they were taking because it seemed to represent stability as opposed to just Hulk, which has a stigma of uncontrollable rage.

They got Beto on Young Animal?

Yeah they are stabalizing their tentpoles but how is Green Lanterns and New Super-man not experimental? Fuck, the OP said Green Arrow is experimental when that book went back to basics harder than any other title

It's all bullshit mate

Captain Marvel's opening arc was solid, but it got dicked over hard by CWII and now it's getting yet another new creative team.

Fury: My War Gone By
it's pretty good

DC has been further ahead and pushing trends more. They were for diversity long before Marvel with OYL for example. But usually been ahead of the curve further than the audience hasn't delivered until Marvel fucked itself for the short term.

Anyone got the blank template of OP?

You don't want boring old Kaine user, what you really want is Miles morales as Spider-man.

Reminder that Marvel sales are also up from last year. DC is just doing way, way better than either it or Marvel was last year.

Pretty sure it ended with issue 6 back in May.

It mostly took place off Earth, involved a character going through an identity crisis and splitting off into multiple personalities, martian blood magic and although barrows is not an amazing artist, I'd say he did a wonderful job when it came to drawing shapeshifting and shit like that, and he changed up his style to show off all the flashbacks to Mars before it died.

Scarlet Witch is enjoyable as a sort of Kino's Journey of witchcraft. There's no real overarching story, just Wanda traveling around and meeting different kinds of witches

This is the Marvel's retarded way of experimenting. that i was talking about: It only needs a redhead psychic, and everyone turns gay.

The binary liberal vs conservative culture war shit is helping no one. Not even this article can move away from labeling things in this way...

That has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

>but how is Green Lanterns and New Super-man not experimental?
Because race/gender isn't experimental. It's a false equivalency.

Marvel making ice man gay isn't experimental.

He's doing back ups for Shade the Changing Girl

New Superman is just "Superman and other american hero knock off". It's fun but it's not experimental. And the art is pretty house.

DC straight up came out and said that. Meat and potatoes because DCyoU bombed.

But the OP is praising Marvel for exactly that

He's not using conservative in the political sense.

Fuck that's amazing, I was already gonna pick Shade the Changing Girl up but this is another huge incentive.

The OP is retarded, we're just trying to have an honest discussion here.

>Meat and potatoes because DCyoU bombed.

Once again, the vast majority of the people who made DCYou good are the architects of Rebirth. The majority of the books that were good in DCYou have an equivalent in Rebirth, some of which are continuing on completely unchanged (Midnighter, Gotham Academy, Grayson team on Nightwing)

This argument is so fucking stupid.

I think what's pissing people off his how blatantly biased the article is in Marvels favor. Yes, Rebirth has mostly gone back to basics but that doesn't mean the Young Animal or HB line don't count

Please DC has tens of alternative Universes with "experimenting stuff". Wasn't Morrison's Wonder Woman, with black Steve Trevor, a couple of months ago?

>Grayson team
It's just Seeley.

Having them all be parts of Battleworld really hurt a lot of those books for me.

I'm really only picking up Cave Carson because of Scioli's backups.

Wasn't that under the MAX imprint?

I wouldn't call either of them experimental, especially not Green Lanterns. New Super-Man is experimental in setup and focus, but not really in tone or direction.

I know, the article is bullshit. The author states that
>Gender and racial diversity is experimentation
It's not
>DC isn't pushing gender and racial diversity
They are.

They just aren't doing it in a retarded way.

I mean, does Marvel have a better diverse character than Jessica Cruz from all this race swapping and gender baiting?

But King is writing Batman so it's a moot point.

DCYou didn't do well in sales. However, it did succeed with critics and the small audience that did read it. As such, those writers were rewarded for the quality they made even if they didn't move copies like they deserved.

I think we're coming at this from different angles. I'm not saying DC isn't being more traditional but I'm not going to pretend Marvel is being more creative either

DCYou still bombed financially. They just took the new talent they acquired through it and put them on big titles.

>DCYou still bombed financially. They just took the new talent they acquir

~*This is a good thing*~

Not really, he said Grayson team on Nightwing when he could've said Grayson team on Batman and made more sense(King and Janin)

Even then, the big gender and race pushes are still around.

We still have mexican blue beetle, still have black wally west, still have cyborg promotion, still have chinese atom, still have cruz, still have baz.

Hell, we have more diverse super books than superman books (Action and Superman vs Supergirl, Chinese Superman and Superwoman).

What's experimental about Cho Hulk or Jane Foster?

>I mean, does Marvel have a better diverse character than Jessica Cruz from all this race swapping and gender baiting?

No. Jessica was created organically and not in a way as to piss off GL fans. Marvel is incapable of doing this.

>it did succeed with critics
Not as well as you'd think.

And wonder woman is now canonically bisexual

Not if you aren't poor.

Articles like this, makes me to agree with those who are saying that following comic book journalism, is waste of time.

>Wasn't that under the MAX imprint?
It was, but I think if we count Vertigo under DC's current output which we should then MAX should probably count as well.
That said, Fury: My War Gone By definitely feels less like a "Marvel War Book" and more like an extended issue of Ennis' War Stories. It definitely feels like an outlier.

Even as I typed it I didn't really care so much for critics anyway. Comics journalism is even worse than video games'.

And as much shit as the character rightly gets, Batman's current partner is black.

>l but I'm not going to pretend Marvel is being more creative either
Nobody in this thread is. it's just that we have higher expectations of DC.

>They just took the new talent they acquired through it and put them on big titles.
And since we're at it, I don't think they're doing a great job at locking down talent. Ferreyra is doing a short story at Image right now for example, DC should have jumped at him with an exclusive first chance they got, instead they sign Jesus fucking merino. It's also worrying how many artists DC discovered and then Marvel flew in and shortly took them away.

Morrison's WW was a by-the-numbers origin story with a raceswap that had no real impact. You might as well point to them raceswapping Etta Candy in the mainstream DCU as being experimental.

Oh it absolutely is.
You sorta have to keep an eye on it so you don't miss out on books you might like, but reading articles that aren't series announcements is almost always a waste of time.

I feel like Duke was fine until they tried to make him a sidekick. I've heard We Are Robin was great, then they tried to push him and everyone was driven away. Like with Harper Row.

Like everything, pick and choose your sources.

That's why I just come to Cred Forums to get news.

The correct answer was "Not if you care about sports"
Which I'm sure can still be found in a livestream.

>Morrison's WW was by the number origin story
Bullshit. I call fucking bullshit on you user.

So is Flashes, Mera is knocking things out of the park in Aquaman.

But Duke actually put in some good appearances and never hijacked the stories of better characters, so he's not really like Harper Row at all.

Though it would actually create some diversity if there were more characters who had conservative political opinions.

Based on comics, movies etc. you'd think there were more transgender people than conservative Christians or fundamentalist Muslims. Writers think religious, cultural, gender opinions held by about half of the people in the world are too evil to be worth representing and then they have the nerve to think they're standing up for representation.

>And as much shit as the character rightly gets

Duke is fine, you need to stop listening to Damifag.

Satellite subscriptions come with access to the streaming services of channels you have.

>So is Flashes
She dead

Choc!Wally.

Also, she isn't dead. She merged with the speedforce. I'm sure Barry will run into her again soon.

Either you didn't read it or you never read a Wonder Woman comic before it.

>>> Admitting that gimmicky SJW bullshit doesn't sell.

So lackimg in self awareness

>creative bankruptcy

You'd think a comics """"journalist"""" would be required to read comics.

Young Animal says hi you fucking hack

I meant more that people reacted to him in a similar way to Harper Row.

I never said either of them were experimental.

I'm surprised that Marvel didn't go for a spy/political line of comics a few years ago. What books we have about SHIELD and whatnot are disconnected as hell.

It's a non-point anyway. It was Earth 1, the kind of sand pit a writer can play with this kind of thing in.

People only really get upset if the mainline character gets swapped out.

I just can't get into Abnett's Aquaman.
It's so bland. I have to wonder if people aren't thinking "this is so much better than Bunn's run!"
But I can't get past how much weaker it is than Parker's.

I know, I just didn't want to pass up on an opportunity to take a cheap shot at that terrible character.

I'm not having it user, you ain't gonna move the goalpost and dictate what is experimental or not.

What? DC has been signing exclusive talent left, right and center ever since the Rebirth announcement. They got King, Seeley, Orlando, Clay Mann, Abnett, etc. Plus, they've got guys like Morrison who will always come back.

Abnett is pretty bland in general.

When did coverage of pop culture get to be all politics all the time? It's not just comics, you can't read a review of anything without some kind of identity-politics reference.

It seems like it started sometime after 2012, because that was the year Marvel went down to zero female-led books (after the cancellation of X-23). Even I think that's too little, but what started this obsession with "representation" in comics media that wasn't there in 2012?

I always laugh when people bitch about how "hard they're pushing Duke" when he's showed up in like 4 pages of King's Batman and has a back-up in All-Star.

Yeah, really shoving that character down our throats huh?

>I just can't get into Abnett's Aquaman.
It's my favourite rebirth book. I find it a good blend of short and long term plot points, good characterisations of Mera, Arthur and Manta as well as being unlike any other rebirth book right now.

Each to their own of course.

Please tell us how it was experimental. Different poster here and it left me unimpressed like most of Morrison's work.

>but what started this obsession with "representation" in comics media that wasn't there in 2012?
It's not just comics. Film, jobs, schools etc.

The push for diversification is everywhere.

SHIELD's been confusing as hell for fucking ages. I mean, at one point there were three different people who were potentially in charge. Maria Hill, Black Fury and Daisy Johnson. SHIELD's become so omnipresent in the Marvel U that it's hard for them to have a definable structure because everybody just adds in new branches and members as they see fit.
It's like the X-Men. Every new writer has to make there own cast of new Mutants, who then get used as wallpaper by the next writer.

Hopefully there is a pushback that makes people aware that there are more than 2 political parties.

Seeley is...not that great, not a bad signing but nothing special. Abnett is bland as fuck. Merino was a stupid signing, you should sign people to exclusives to lock them down from working somewhere else but who the fuck would want Merino? Also Williamson and John Tims, like...ugh. They signed some good people like King, Orlando, Joelle Jones, Otto Schmidt but I don't think they're doing the best they can with exclusives.

Isn't Joelle the artist on Mockingbird?
It's cancelled?

King, Rucka, Williamson, Johns, Abnett, Priest and Tomasi.

Personally I'm really happy with DC's writing talent at the moment. Throw in Manapul for art and you get a lot of book options to pull.

No, she is not. She did Lady Killer over at Dark horse.

I think that the article ignores the fact that the DC's characters are very iconic as images to the general pubblic. For example i noticed, in the thread with the DC's December solicitations, that they were fans who expressed openly against having Wonder Woman wielding a sword, instead of using the iconic lasso. DC's readership is far moreless accepting to changes than Marvel's. And when DC pubblishes a comic book, needs to have this in mind. But apart from this the difference is that DC with Rebirth is doing recently a change in quality terms, something that Marvel ignores with their current mess of Universe. If this what Marvel intends with creativity, sorry but i would not buy it.

Companies will always follow the $$. Ghostbusters flopped and DC have found more success by sticking to their guns. I'm sure we will see companies move away from diversity when it stops paying the bills.

My impression is the trend peaked last year and this year they're retrenching.

I think show business will learn the wrong lesson, they'll start going "people don't want 'diverse' leads" when it's actually "people don't want to read/watch something if they're told it's good for them politically."

There aren't that many people who would boycott something based on starring a woman or a nonwhite person. But you can't go "support this or you are a bad person" and expect people to bite.

Hilariously enough, Carol Danvers and Kamala Khan, especially Carol, come off as conservative.

But here's the thing, Priest is not exclusive. And Johns isn't writing anything. My point was that DC should stop giving exclusives to mediocre talent and lock down their stars because Marvel has been stealing A TON of great artists from them these past few years.

>Hopefully there is a pushback that makes people aware that there are more than 2 political parties.
Seriously, your Democratic and Republican are clearly made up of at least two and three parties, respectively.

The political landscape is interesting and it's become abundantly clear that the 2 party system can't contain it.

Sanders and Trump are probably the furthest break away from traditional politics we've seen in decades. Should be some interesting times ahead.

I agree with this. Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are iconic in how they look.

Look at how the red underwear or red boots change has gone down as evidence.

That's fair enough. But Johns hasn't been writing for 2 months and will likely be back within 6. It's just a hiatus and not status quo.

My local area voted in Pauline Hanson. Laughed out of politics 20 years ago for wanting to stop Muslim immigration, she has just come roaring back.

It's shifting and the SJW fucking hate it lol. Even though that's democracy, she was legitimately voted in and represents the views of her area.

>and will likely be back within 6
At this point I wouldn't be so sure. Especially since eh said he's not going to be on the upcoming Shazam title.

>I wouldn't be so sure
Yeah obviously I can't know for sure. I just think it will be odd if he doesn't put pen to paper again.

>Marvel has been stealing A TON of great artists from them these past few years.
Like who? The only one I can think of is Sorrentino, the majority of Marvel's art is garbage right now. DC's got Manapul, Fabok, Mann, Gleason, Mahnke, Janin, Bagenda. Also, no one is going to sign Priest exclusive because he's been around for so long that he can do whatever he wants.

Priest is about exclusive as can be right now, since he's been out of comics for years. DC kind of got lucky getting him back on, and I wouldn't be surprised if they simply can't lock him down right now because they can't push him. Depending on how Deathstroke goes, he might be willing to write more more might just go back into retirement.
Now that he's done all these interviews stating that he wasn't writing comics because all he ever got were black characters though, Marvel might get savvy and try to steal him away. So I wouldn't be surprised if DC wines and dines him to get the exclusive.

>DC's lineup solid across the board with only a couple stinkers that are more mediocre than outright horribly bad
>new crop of creators in both art and writing talent
>editorial climate changed to encourage more individual stories and deemphasizes big crossover events, allowing Rebirth story arcs to establish themselves at the character level first without having to worry about everyone being on the same page
>Because of these changes, interest remains high as story arcs are allowed to develop and new, interesting creative teams put their own mark on different properties
>see this reflected in sales, unlike with DC You which suffered because it focused on books so niche that people didn't follow them in single issues

And yet people still find a reason to bitch, bitch, bitch.

Dauterman, Kuder, Del Rey, Saiz, Aco. And that's just off the top of my head. I do think DC still has a better pool of artists, but I also think they need to put them to good use, they're only giving Bagenda a shitty short story with Kyle/Carol in some special. What if marvel comes in and snatches him?

I think DC gamed the system with actually decent comics.

Diversity doesn't mean anything if it's shit.

>20 years ago
Well at the very least you can say her hatred of muzzies isn't based in 9/11 paranoia. Atleast not completely.

Calm down, Cap.

I'd say closer to three and four, respectively.

It works with X-Men because of the format; you can have a starring team in one book that is wallpaper in another and it fit with how the X-men operate. I think the bigger problem is that there is no longer any emblematic SHIELD characters. No one cares about Black Fury, Daisy Johnson is a poor choice for SHIELD director, and Maria Hill is love-her-or-leave-her at best. I think pre-AoS Coulson, the bureaucratic suit who happens to work for a superspy agency, would have worked best for a new character to lead SHIELD but that got cocked up during AoS and his introduction in the comics.

Trump doesn't want to smash the system.

He wants to become the system and smash other people with it.

Hillary is the system already and is perfectly happy with continuing to wield its power to smash other people she doesn't like.

Bernie wants to replace the system with rainbow dreams and unicorn farts and the same failed promises of every socialist utopia of the past 100 years.

>NYCC is in 2 weeks

We're going to get the next wave of DC books announced there, I think this was confirmed already.

Super Sons and JLA teams are a lock. New teams for LOSH, JSA, Shazam, and another Wildstorm book are extremely likely.

Hickman was recently at the DC Offices...

You forgot that Rebirth is being slowly progressed and teased out across multiple books.

A clue in Superman #1, then in Action Comics last month, Tec this month. Titans #All as well as Flash #1 have also advanced the plot.

It's enjoyable to be slowly piecing bits together.

Finally, Rebirth #1 was a very open and honest self critique by DC, it's refreshing for them to finally back down and say "You know what, you guys were right. We lost our way".

>Aco

ACO is still working for DC. He did character designs for Rebrith and is doing covers for Deathstroke and Midnighter.

DCYou era DC had a fuckton of well-implemented diversity but no one paid attention to it because it was all relegated to titles that people didn't follow weekly.

They learned their lesson and focused their marketing towards stuff that gets the most visibility, enabling them a little more wiggle room with the rest of the initiative with the increase in goodwill and sales across the board. A rising tide, lifts all boats, after all, but in this mixed metaphor, only a few boats are responsible for actually keeping the tide high in the first place.

>Hickman was recently at the DC Offices...

I'm kind of excited for this, even though Cred Forums doesn't seem to be. I mean, DC managed to get a good book out of Sam fucking Humphries, imagine what they can potentially get out of Hickman.

If Marvel wants to talk about "creativity", first they should stop bringing the same recycling ideas over and over again (really how many times they will do civil war, hero vs hero stuff, clone saga etc?), and then keep out Bendis from any kind of important book.

>Hickman was recently at the DC Offices...
please no

it has 12 creative teams, that shit is hard to put together.

Eh, it feels kind of hollow coming from Johns who has made a number of stories where he's resorted to the kind of grim nastiness that he's criticizing in the first place. I mean, I love the man's work overall, but he's taken that same shortcut to emotional depth, so I don't know how much of it is serious self-reflection, and how much of it is just flying completely over his head.

But he will do interiors for some x-shit.

I think the big thing is that there are no SHIELD books to help explain what's going on. They're an omnipresent force, and they're not exactly hiding in the shadows or anything, so the result is this massive, splayed organization with all these details that don't quite connect.

a Hickman LOSH mite b cool

Certainly Johns isn't immune to the criticisms he himself raise. It was him that shelved the happy Flash family for Barry "muh Mother" Allen.

Not really because they're mostly one and dones.

More Wildstorm news was already confirmed.

bleedingcool.com/2016/07/23/jim-lee-announces-that-wildstorm-will-rejoin-dc-rebirth-but-youll-have-to-wait-nycc/?utm_source=comicsprss.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=comicsprss.com

Orlando on Authority maybe?

He isn't doing interiors because he's slow. He's doing other shit behind the scenes now.

Johns has done a fair amount of grimdark stuff but he's been fairly consistent about loving the history of the DC characters. I imagine he was not happy about the way the New 52 wiped out that history and Rebirth was his chance to fix that.

As for criticizing Alan Moore for starting that, no, that doesn't make sense. The problem with New 52 had nothing to do with darkness, it was the wiping out of legacy and history to appeal to imaginary new readers.

I'd prefer a Hawksmoor mini/ongoing

no they'll have to wait for the issue that precedes them to get finished scripting first before they can start scripting since it is a challenge.

I'm actually excited too. I know he wants to write a LOSH, but I've heard his other favourite DC character is Blue Devil and I'd kind of prefer if he does that first.

Yeah, that's my point. I wonder how much of it is him seriously reflecting on his work as he goes into semi-retirement from writing comics.

I mean, his work is always very strong in terms of dealing with the character relationships and legacy that he accuses the post-Flashpoint DCU of throwing away, but he still tends to delve into shocking twists with emotional torture to break some of those elements apart.

What part of "he is doing interiors for some mutie shit" do you not understand? DC published a Sorentino variants for Gotham By Midnight and Martian Manhunter after he went exclusive with marvel.

Garth Ennis seems to be firmly back at DC writing Dick Dastardly of all fucking things, maybe he's involved?

That's a big problem too. They're everywhere but we know jack shit about them at this point.

That's nothing special though. All writers do that at some point. Morrison is pretty bad about it.

>As for criticizing Alan Moore for starting that, no, that doesn't make sense

I don't think he's accusing Alan Moore specifically of that. Remember, in interviews he talks about Dr. Manhattan as not being a villain in an antagonistic sense. I think he's moreso accusing comic writers who came after Moore trying to ape that style and darkness without understanding the craft, and also not having an appreciate for what they were tearing up in the first place.

He didn't shelf shit, retard.

Shit, I know it'll never happen, but I'd love if all those Wildstorm books that never got finished would have a chance to wrap up. Like that one that got storytimed recently about the little hick town where that got walled off from the rest of the world and everyone started getting superpowers and turning into monsters.

>Morrison is pretty bad about it.

At least Morrison inserted himself into Animal Man to apologize for it.

My favorite works from Morrison always have an upswing of optimism to them anyways. Like "yeah things are shitty right now, but we're destined to be in a better place"

Simply being on a book doesn't make you exclusive. If he had signed with Marvel it would have been announced by now.

Bait?

And the butthurt continues. This is so hilarious. It's literally just people trying to slander DC every month and they continue to dominate. Making comic books about long time running characters people enjoy is not "nostalgia". Thats the most retarded thing I've ever heard when these characters are 75 years old. You are appealing to almost everyone alive. Their tears are delicious.

I didn't say he went exclusive, just that his next drawing gig is at Marvel and so Marvel plucked him away.

Morrison kept doing it long after Animal Man.

That's not plucking him away. If they'd signed him to an exclusive deal then yeah, but he's still able to work for DC, which is likely considering whatever he's on at Marvel will probably get canceled after 6 issues or he'll get replaced because he's slow.

>DC doesn't pander to minority groups who don't buy comics
>Makes mad bank
>"No but here's why this is a bad business plan for them, shoehorning in tumblr shit makes for quality reading, just look at Patsy Walker and Squirrel Girl."

Nature is taking its course and I'm glad.

Are you fucking kidding me

Quite the opposite,I really do think DC is the Bernie of all this, and Marvel the Clinton, in that Marvel has grabbed the same narrative of progress via representation, that a woman or visible minority in the spotlight is inherently empowering even if they are doing the exact same things as their white male counterparts, or in the case of Clinton's hawkish foreign policy even worse things . DC on the other hand has done much more to advance the way comics are created (not to mention having been the regular home proponents of actual radical left wing throughout the years, Moore, Morrison et al.) Xmen may have the whole persecution metaphor going for it, but it's nothing compared to the depth of the cultural analysis of Kirby's fifth world.
Marvel , like Clinton has something easily mistakable for progressiveness, but really only offer a superficial kind of inclusiveness common to neoliberal strain of thought that an equitable society would have the same cultural makeup within each class - when really an equitable society wouldn't HAVE class as it exists today.

And even then Marvel's inclusiveness isn't really that truthful:for all their diversity of characters, DC's diversity of actual AUTHORS and WRITERS is far better. You can have all the Miles Morales and Riri Williamses you want, when Bendis and Slott have the sway they do, that's going to effect the work heavily.

Think of a classic Marvel character. It's likely they've been replaced by a female now.

Jesus Christ, thank you.

DC's always been the more progressive of the two companies, (DiDio has been championing diversity since '06) they just don't shove it down your throat in a cloying cynical way.

Credit: Marvel Comics
A sequel to Mark Millar and John Romita Jr.'s "Enemy of the State" arc of Wolverine has been announced at Marvel's "Death of X" panel at Comic-Con International: San Diego. "Enemy of the State II" will begin in October's All-New Wolverine #13 with series writer Tom Taylor and new series artist Nik Virella. David Lopez will provide covers.

Here is the full solicitation:
Credit: Marvel Comics
ALL-NEW WOLVERINE: ENEMY OF THE STATE II
Begins in All-New Wolverine #13!
TOM TAYLOR (W) • NIK VIRELLA (A)
COVER BY DAVID LOPEZ
“ENEMY OF THE STATE II” STARTS NOW!
WOLVERINE: MURDERER!!! Laura has fought so hard to be something other than what she was created to be, but the fight is over. Wolverine has blood on her hands. In the wake of an unspeakable tragedy, dark forces have Laura’s life under their control. Will Laura be able to defeat demons on the outside and from within? Or will she be forced to give up the hero’s life she’s built for herself?

I'm a DC only reader (new, haven't gotten around to all other publishers) and in Marvel I'm interesting in:

Wolverine
Spiderman
Fantastic 4

You know, do you think if uh...

You think if the Schmidt pencil'd Green Arrow does good enough, Marvel will grab inCase to do Hawkeye?

>Wolverine
Dead. Replaced by a boring girl.

>Spider-man
Dead. Replaced by a half-nigger half spic that no one cares about.

>Fantastic 4
RIP

Good, keep the Dragonball fan base away from here, those retards are cancer.

I like it so much because it's actually got to do with Aquaman attempting all the things he normally just talks about. We actually get an embassy on dry land, rather than constantly talking a bot how Atlanteans and eartjers just need to get along.

That's what I had heard. Which is another reason I haven't branched out.

Meanwhile DC has classic Supes front and centre, both Flashes have a book, Aquaman and Mera headlining their series and honestly that's what is important to me.

There is something to be said about the classics.

>Riddler just casually makes old men's short lives a little better.

>Gives little kids on a warm summer who probably have no parent supervision something fun and refressing to do.

>Feeds a starving animal.

This guy's the villain?

>on his way to presumably rob a bank
based

Wolverine, Silk, and Ms. Marvel. That's basically it.

Bendis already jabbed at Rebirth in his Spider-man series.
A guy on the street shouted at a cop, "What is a Rebirth?"

>Xmen may have the whole persecution metaphor going for it, but it's nothing compared to the depth of the cultural analysis of Kirby's fifth world.

X-Men's metaphor has always been flimsy as hell considering the entire team with the exception of Storm (who's entire concept is that she's a black woman who literally has "perfect" asian/white facial features) is straight and white. Very much a perfect representation of what you're saying, putting on air of a progressive champion without doing ANY of the leg work.

In terms of diversity of their actual writing staff, DC isn't terribly better, but they're improving. Their new in-house development program is a massive step in the right direction. I hope it works out.

nightcrawler's blue...

Spiderman isn't dead ya mongoloid.
He's being written like shit, but he's still alive.

>In terms of diversity of their actual writing staff
Is DC excluding great writers/artists based on race or gender? If the answer to that is no there is literally no problem.

I hate quote filling for the sake of quota filling.

>Secret Wars 3
>Enemy of the State 2
>Civil War 2
>Fucking Clone Sage 2.

And somehow DC is having creative bankruptcy.

The diversity in Claremont's X-Men was more cultural than ethnic.
Sure they were mostly white, but they were still from completely different parts of the world and that was reflected in their personalities.

>He still has one.

The problem is and always has been, that great writers of varying races and gender aren't asked to pitch, not that they're pitching great books and being turned down. They're not even being given the opportunity.

>The problem is ... , that great writers of varying races and gender aren't asked to pitch
Source?

Go listen to Priest talk about his experiences in the industry for five minutes.

the best behind the scenes rebirth story so far was Priest getting to pitch Firestorm, getting super hype, and DC realized they never told him about Jason Rusch

How does that even make sense?
What shit writing.

Black men are the second biggest superhero comics reading demographic after white men. You can count on two hands the amount of black men who have written for Marvel and DC over the last 70 years. Do you think this is a coincidence and that black men simply not as good as white men at writing funny books and have all of their pitches turned down?

Link? I've only heard him talk about dislike for gimmicks, wanting more diverse people hired and not wanting to write black people.

I haven't seen him say that minorities and women don't get to pitch ideas.

I'm not saying diversity has never been a problem. I'm doubting that right now people are having pitches ignored BECAUSE they are black or a woman.

They are the second biggest demographic now, which will likely see an increase in creators when they grow up. But what % was the demographic of readers in the 80's (todays creators) compared to the current writing demographic?

Why does that matter, didn't both Jason and Ronnie have seperate Firestorm forms? And even later Ronnie was still the face.

Vanilla is the ice cream flavor that sells the most.
McDonalds serves billions every day.
People want what they know and love. It's that fucking simple. Guilt tripping them into buying something new (and oft mediocre) with accusations of bigotry if you complain is not an effective business model and never has been.

I don't have an opinion in DBZ.

It does feel good to know that more Japs are buying JoJo than Americans are buying Spider-Man. Araki deserves every cent he gets, and more.

>I'm doubting that right now people are having pitches ignored BECAUSE they are black or a woman.

I don't think they are either. I sincerely doubt there is a power hungry racist at DC or Marvel burning pitch requests from writers who aren't white and cackling manically. I'm simply stating that black writers are not being asked to pitch at DC or Marvel for a multitude of reasons, the most pressing being that DC and Marvel have garbage talent scouts, the majority of their editors are white, and that the comic book industry is incredibly insular.

He says this as though Marvel has anything even vaguely experimental in their lineup either. Protip: People who want experimental or artsy comics are not reading fucking Marvel and DC. The big two's business is with people who want the characters they grew up with and DON'T want anything experimental and DON'T want any change.

Everything but whor.

>I don't think they are either. I sincerely doubt there is a power hungry racist at DC or Marvel burning pitch requests from writers who aren't white and cackling manically.
Maybe not NOW but have you ever heard about Tyroc? Or hell, the fact that back in the 70s Falcon's unofficial nickname in the Marvel offices was "Foul Coon"?

Either way they made a pretty good documentary about this that goes over the fact that, among other reasons attributing to the polarized demographics, even black creators? They want to write (fore eample) Superman. But when the big 2 hires them, it's to push a black character as well, not to do Superman. And since nobody reads the diversity books, they don't get the acclaim and sales needed to get them the gig writing Superman. So eventually they go indie, or otherwise go home.

>. I'm simply stating that black writers are not being asked to pitch at DC or Marvel for a multitude of reasons
But is this anything more than speculation?

Trump would have to do something that reflects positively on him, that also doesn't reek of being a PR stunt.

The question this raises to me is, what does that mean for the future? Going back into the comfort zones to please the older fanbase is only going to last so long.

>Going back into the comfort zones to please the older fanbase is only going to last so long.
Why?

It's been corroborated by multiple writers like Priest and McDuffie (both of whom literally had to start their own company to get their friends some consistent work) and is evident by the fact that 99.9999% of comic book writers are white.

Come on man, occam's razor. You don't need a reddit chart with red arrows pointing at statistics to see what's right in front of your eyes.

>Green Arrow being illustrated by a man best known for drawing dickgirl comics.

DC is the true progressive.

Marvel and DC have some horrible shit in their past, obviously. I was more speaking to the last few years than anything.

Anything he does will be spun as a PR stunt both by the media who are eager to lynch him for anything, and by his own big fat mouth that is eager to say anything to get him more attention.

Because eventually the older fanbase is going to stop existing.

No, he still is. He's just trying to pretend he's not. It's abundantly obvious though.

Priest has pretty much gone on the record saying that unless they're launching a book starring a black guy (which even then is fairly rare) they almost never get called in to pitch for a book.

I think Priest said the biggest reason he took Deathstroke is because he was offered Cyborg at first.

>and is evident by the fact that 99.9999% of comic book writers are white.
Correlation != Causation.

>Come on man, occam's razor.
So no source

And yet comics have survived for 75 years.

Hearing that story was pretty funny.

>initially turns them down because he doesn't want to be pigeonholed as only writing black characters
>they offer him basically whatever he wants to write
>Deathstroke

it was firestorm and he didn't realize he was black and DC assumed he knew. I assume Johns did magic to work it over

Pure nostalgia appeal has its limits.

What was Parker's like? I only read John's and I would say it's about equal to Abnett's (decent but nothing to write home about)

That's a disingenuous statement because it treats the concept of "nostalgia pandering" or whatever you want to call it as a zero sum game where the classic stuff ONLY appeals to an aging demographic.

By that logic, Pokemon should be a dead franchise. By that logic, no one under the age of 55 should like Beatles music. When I was five years old, I was really into ninja turtles. I go into Target today and what do I see five year olds buying? Ninja Turtle toys! And that franchise didn't really get changed all that much in the intervening 25 years. They didn't make one of the turtles female' they didn't have to.

If you do your job right, the older fan base gets replaced by the newer one without you having to change the actual product. Marvel is backing the idea that you have to trade the older fanbase for the newer one when the proper way to go about things is to appeal to both.

Or, from a more cynical and fiscal perspective, appeal to the ones paying for your product.

Don't really give a fuck?

>it was firestorm and he didn't realize he was black

That was almost a decade ago.

When he got phoned up to write Rebirth, they offered him Cyborg first.

Ha ha whoops.

Johns seems to be on good terms with everyone, it's funny. I think he was the only person Robinson thanked when he burned all his bridges in the jump to Marvel.

>I was more speaking to the last few years than anything.
Like I said, there's a pretty interesting documentary from a couple years ago that goes on about both the historical state of the industry and how it currently operates for some creatives.
youtu.be/Blrjwue4YPY

So despite the fact that all evidence points to my conclusion, you're still going to pull this shit?

When the most prolific living black comic writer tells you that the only time his phone rings is when they want to launch some misguided black solo book that's canceled in 6 issues and that he's the only black guy they know despite being retired for 10 years, you don't see a problem here?

>stuff without the rebirth banner doesn't count even though it all came about because of the wider rebirth push
And theres plenty of diversity even in the main line anyway
>buddy cop lanterns
>Chinese knock off heros
>sixpack and dogwelder
>hellblazer
>globe hoping batgirl
>fatfamily and clayface detective comics
>full villan deathstroke (i hope)
>bizaro on a semi conventional superhero team
>political aquaman
>2 fucking superwoman
All that is missing is a fantasy book (i am sick of the only amethyst storys getting made being about worst gem)

Even talking about marvels precious ethnic diversity dc has plenty
>again buddy cop lanterns
>again Chinese heros
>again globe trotting batgirl had fruit bat (in her prime miniseries when)
>blue beetle (shame it was a bit crap but it will hopefully get better there was promise there)
>cyborg
>john is british
>wondy is greek
>supes is kryptonian
And thats just the main line again

Good to see vision getting some shilling though.

This writer seems to be under the impression that replacing characters is diversity in storytelling.

More wildstorm stuff makes me happy. I think I've read more WS than traditional DC and there is so much potential there now that they share the same universe.

For instance -- make The Coda fight Wonder Woman. That's a story arc in and of itself.

But I'm weirdly against it, only because that's my personal dream. To write for DC and incorporate more of the Wildstorm properties back into it. So far I'm not impressed with what their doing either.

This is something I'd want to write. Did you read the book where they explained his actual origins? And moved away from "LOL AYY LMAOS" and talked about the future earth and the City-Gods? That's my favorite thing.

Hawksmoor is my favorite super hero in a sense. Hawksmoor and Warblade for sure.

Yeah I'd like to make it to where they wrap up certain stories but reboot and retell some other ones in this new universe.

Which is why I'm hesitant about the Authority coming back. If they don't do the Changers than it won't make sense. My idea for the Changers in new DC is making this huge epic event out of it. Basically DC's Civil War.

The High stands opposed to Superman, but he's a different kind of enemy. An intellectual enemy. Someone he can't just punch his way through. Someone who's matched in power with him, but different in his philosophy. Superman says let earth and humanity govern itself and be there to protect and guide them. The High says they're incapable of that and they need the super powered people of Earth to set them on a proper path, even if it means forcing Change.

The whole thing starts out with The High murdering Lex Luthor and the world thinks it's Superman gone rogue, he gets arrested and has to submit himself to the criminal justice system. If Superman doesn't, no one will ever trust him ever again. With Superman behind bars, the High can build his army.

But there is someone else pulling the strings behind the scenes too.

That's such a shame to hear, Eric Battle is really talented too.

>So despite the fact that all evidence points to my conclusion
You didn't post any evidence. Just your opinion.

With The Authority et al they could kind of do a Squadron Supreme deal. Have the two universes clash and the two sides fight, but afterwards send them back to their own dimension and follow what happens.

>wondy is greek
and bisexual.

Teen Titans gets a new black kid too.

Oh almost forgot for the second thing
>birds of prey was doing all female teams years before A force.

McDuffie and Priest have said the exact same shit. This is common knowledge and not even remotely up for debate. And considering they are two of maybe 6 long stay black writers, I think their take on the situation trumps yours.

In Priest's case though he's stated he wasn't looking for work, he wasn't pitching. He was doing some non-Big 2 work and writing novels. He said that every couple of years, both Marvel and DC would call him up and offer him a few characters, all of whom would be black, and he'd turn them down.
Hell, DC even admitted that the reason they kept calling him is that they all loved his Black Panther so much and wanted a repeat.

Feel free to post the quotes

>Black men are the second biggest superhero comics reading demographic after white men.
This really doesn't matter though if the pool of white male readers is MUCH larger than the pool of black male readers.

John is to
Does marvel even have any bisexual characters as we all know bobby is full gay

Come to think of it why did he list iceman is something unusual happening in his book or is the author such a sjw he slipped into writing about demographic diversity when he was meant to be talking about narative diversity.

I think Deadpool is bisexual or pansexual, whichever.
Think Gwenpool is too.
Also everyone Claremont has ever written, or at least every female character

Vertigo is essentially dead at this point since the no longer allow DC properties to be published outside the mainline DC imprint so we'll never see mature comics set in the DCU ever again. Vertigo is just going to be self contained books which is okay but it's going to be weird to see a new Sandman book come out and have the DC logo on it.

Has DC accused the President of founding ISIS? Or made fun of a reporter with Downs Syndrome?

President Luthor might have

I don't like it being two different universes. I want the Authority to basically be how it was, with the Carrier and everything, but with a different take on super heroing. So they end up fighting off villain threats in the normal DC universe but their method of doing things gets them into clashes with the Justice League and other groups. But overall the JL sees the Authority as not too bad, because of how often they use the carrier to evacuate civilians and pull some otherwordly stunts to solve the problem.

They just don't like how they scuff at the law.

So the Justice League is like Lawful Good and the Authority is like Chaotic Good.

Luthor usually presents himself with polite dignity.

Well technicly baz is not muslim just his family.
But the great thing is dc is not willing to disrupt the story to clear up the confusion they could have slipped it into his rage scene when he was talking about his family and they still had to much artistic integrity to say good enough. I imagine it will be cleared up in the next few issues.
But some upcoming issues deal heavily with said family anyway.

>so we'll never see mature comics set in the DCU ever again
Young Animal is a mature readers line set in the DCU. Way said as far as he knows, Mother Panic is the first ever mature readers book set in Gotham.

Katie Powers from the Power Pack is bi. And like you said, every female character Claremont got his hands on is has some bi in them like Storm, Psylocke, Carol, Jessica Drew, Kitty if Marvel editorial didn't step in...

The truth is Marvel produces shit books now and has shit writers and artists.

This has been going on before they started getting more diverse. Everyone thought Marvel was on top when House of M happened and we had New Avengers, Planet Hulk, Brubaker Cap, Annihilation, Ultimate books were still good, Civil War... then everything just fell apart when they "killed" Cap and had stupid shit like Secret Invasion, that thing where Nick Fury killed Uatu, destorying The Thunderbolts, cancelling Fantastic Four, killing Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimatum, continuously rebooting the X-Men, the Inhumans being forced on us that nobody ever asked for, MCU and Disney directing the editorial staff on where to take books, Dan Slott, One More Day, Brand New Day, I could really keep going for fucking ever... just one bad decision after the next

I meant funding ISIS

Julie Powers is bi, Katie isn't even a teen yet.

Oh.
Possibly, does seem like it would be in his wheelhouse.

Is it any good? I always figured Way was just given books due to name recognition, I never read Umbrella Chronicles but I assumed he's an average writer at best.

Umbrella Academy is pretty good. Odd, but well written and pretty fun.

I imagine it was probably the fact that he'd still be writing a black character in some form. Priest has historically been super conscious about being typecast as a "black" writer.

The only Young Animal book out so far is Doom Patrol, which I liked. Shade looks good and Cave Carson has potential to be a fun adventure book. Mother Panic is basically about some girl who decides to seek vengeance on the Gotham elite. Might be cool.

When you put it like that, it makes me realize why I've been staying away from current Marvel. I read the classic stuff still though. Just for my own pleasure and research. But I don't want to subscribe to the on-goings. It's like everything they do I just roll my eyes. Although, to be fair, I liked what little I read on Axis and I liked the idea of bringing Onslaught back.

Great thing about john is his last boyfriend was treated no difrently to all his previous girlfriends (in fact i would say he has probably had the worst fate of them all) marvel would have made the writer shit on over 2 decades of storys by having him stick around permanently.

Come to think of it did the sjws bitch about what happened i can see the headlines now.
>Dc makes Bisexual black man sell his soul pointlessly.

Umbrella Academy is impressive.

Stop while you're ahead, tumblr.

Well i have never seen an existing character being ignored in favour of a new one so heavily before for riri.
The fuck was wrong with using rhodys niece

>modern European countries with high standards of living are failed socialist states.

Yeah, okay.

Marlel apologists need to be put into camps.

But dont you see user only ongoings count

ficki ficki

>he thinks those countries are socialist

Nope. They just already have a lot of the policies and social programs Sanders was pushing for.

Ms marvel was good until civil war hit

Moon girl and devil dinosaur is ok i guess.

I have no idea who undead looking chick with a bow is or what book scarlet witch is in right now so im not really sure about those.

Everything else is crap.

>chick with a bow
Hawkeye
>what book scarlet witch is in
Scarlet Witch

I just couldn't take that book seriously with that name.
Justice league of americas

Well if they are taking her in a more uncontrollable direction i am auctualy ok with the name change.
Im not sure the unstopable rage is a good idea in the first place though.

But thats wrong.
We have a fucking horror romance coming up for fucks sake.

Well since there is no Johns there actually will be an upcoming Shazam title

>Ms marvel was good until civil war hit
I few bad for the few Muslim girls who followed comics because of Kamala and were ignorant of the bullshit that was Marvel comics

THAT SALT
mmmmmm

Oh that does sound interesting right up my ally i shall check it out.

Identity-politics fans moan about 'diversity' in comics but they don't actually buy single issues even when it's stuff that panders to their interests.

Whor is kind of expirimental in the what if hulk became unworthy and got replaced sense.
Shame its total crap

And i guess character kept alive by there powers is sort of interesting to but i prefered nightmare nurses take on it (although there difrent enough they can both be equaly good)

Except for the occasional bits of "Patriarchy/men are awful", I'd say they're all good.

You're getting my sides this time, user.

Does anyone like Kate Bishop?

Is that really a new thing i know she made out with zatanna in that one issue of brave and the bold (although i agree with the theory that they were trying to encourage barbra to go get laid)

>This satire of the Chinese government isn't experimental

>It’s a cynical approach, it’s a conservative approach, it’s a move against experimentation and a return to the comfort zone. And it is kicking everyone’s collective arses.
The market has spoken, fucknut.

The people who buy comics don't give a shit about forced diversity, and the people who are forcing diversity don't give a shit about comics. Anyone with half a brain should've seen this coming, and DC is trying (and succeeding!) to win back its core audience instead of pandering to external complainers. I bet dollars to donuts that Marvel, once they finally realise their 'progressive' lineups aren't cutting it, is going to do pretty much the same thing.

Well vidya journalism was lucky enough to have a big effort to fix it from Cred Forums which while it did not fix things as much as hoped they have improved a little.

What can tiny little Cred Forums do.

But Chinese Justice League is better than literally everything at Marvel right now.

Well depending on how you define fundamentalist muslim there probably are more transexuals.
But thats only under a rather narrow definintion of fundamentalist.

>Marvel
>not incredibly creatively bankrupt

I too am intimidated by females

I mean Rebirth does feel safe as fuck
New Super-Man and Superwoman are the only real curveballs in storytelling
I'm still pulling and really liking a half dozen titles from DC but they really aren't taking any other creative risks
even YA and the existing Vertigo products just feel like comfy filler

I like watching America tease her and headcanon that she does it out of a flustered girl fetish.

Morrison's Wonder Woman was officially gay. Not bi like Justice League 3000 Wonder Woman. Straight up gay.

Steve Trevor being black, but also NOT a love interest were also pretty experimental additions to WW's story.

>he says that with Moon Kino around

I'm sorry

It seems fairly damned if you do damned if you don't. So why not go with what's making money, or increasing sales.

All people did was bitch about DC's "creative" and "diverse" choices. And NOBODY supported any of them. Every book and character DC tried to release sold like shit.

Maybe a week ago I was talking about the Black Lightning and Blue Devil comic that went nowhere. Cyborg still seems to be a huge mistake. His solo was OK at SOME POINTS at best. Demon Knights didn't sell. People bitched about Wally, Earth 2 was rarely any good. And other titles that didn't grab any ones attention. There was a big pile of diversity throughout New 52 and NO ONE FUCKING WANTED IT. But now they streamline there titles and change it back to what fans said they liked and missed AND they're fucking CREATIVELY BANKRUPT. Give me a fucking break.

What is this?

It's as if some critics think DC is morally obligated to release SJW-pleasing comics even though they sell like shit.

I wonder how they'll react when Marvel decides to do a 'Marvel Reborn' in 2017, bringing back the real characters that they've been sidelining in their diveristy drive.

Praise them.

And when they do, it'll show that they basically have always been sucking Marvel's dick.

Actually that's a joke bendis uses in his work. It usually about Marvel stuff, like secret wars, but they had nothing going on at the time. It's a playful jab if anything

Was this supposed to be a poem? It doesn't even rhyme.

rich johnston basically shills for marvel for money.

they should keep some of them around, I like a lot of these new characters, many are just stuck in shit stories. kamala can fucking go though

they would rather generate faux controversy than some actual canonical sense

Well marvel can do what the hell they want I've stopped buying their comics now anyway after all this bullshit

People seem to be coming around to bunns run.

I think at the time a lot of people just thought he was auctualy going to split them up. (There are a few other criticisms that could be made at it i guess)

Interesting thing about the current run is i dont think anybody has called it boring a few blands like you say but never boring.

>dictate what is experimental
Isn't that the whole point of this thread?

Apparently creative risk=Hiring Web Comic Creators for your creative team. DC is doing risks, just not dangerous ones, they're doing a DC New Talent Special for their Talent Workshop Graduates. Deadman is getting a title you gotta be thick if you think that's not ballsy.

Really though politics as a single axis was a mistake.
Once people start to realise defining political views into only 2 posibilitys is retarded we will see a huge surge in diversity of politics in comics.
I should not have to be against free speech just because i am pro gun and anti abortion.

Clues later on in Batman and Justice League vs. Suicide Squad #1 (pic related was not posted in the proper DC solicits thread).

I assume you meant to quote

Its like they looked at hydra and saw that nobody had a problem with the way it worked so they started to do the same thing with shield

Best part is its not just dcs big books lifting there little books the huge boost in overall comic readership helps the indies as well

My main problem is it should have been somebody from outside both universes who was inspired by the watchmen universe to represent the writers that missed the point. Using manhatten himself is basicly saying moore intended it all.

Johns is a hack, what do you expect from GLfag.

I have not read any of those storys and i still think some closure would be fucking fantastic.
Im tempted to say that would never happen but a lot of things that never should have happened have happened with rebirth.

>I wonder how much of it is him seriously reflecting on his work as he goes into semi-retirement from writing comics.
I think that might be it now that you mention it.

Name of the book?

>Garth Ennis writing Dick Dastardly
I think the only thing left that could suprise me with rebirth would be captain marvel getting his name back (i know they cant use it on the covers but they are allowed to name him that)

Then why not make it an outside observer inspired by the watchmen universe.

using Manhattan makes for more potent imagery

>in my lifetime there will be nobody that was alive when action #1 was published left.

Stan still has plenty of souls to absorb, user. I wouldn't worry.

>in the 70s Falcon's unofficial nickname in the Marvel offices was "Foul Coon"?
That's hilarious.

Wait why would they
Holy shit hes a fucking porn artist (well thats all artists really but not at this level)
Shadman when.

He did have a problem of being all talk during the nu52

Well thats fair enough.
At least it would be if they did not civil fucking war going on right now.

He needs to focus on his effort to get troops carrying weapons on base.
Its his best policy.

Im not sure about that.
Rebirth has brought back old readers but it has also brought in a shitton of new readers as well.
Because suprise suprise both new and old readers want the same things.

>I assume Johns did magic to work it over
Well he already cast a massive spell to create rebirth whats one more to keep priest happy gonna hurt.

>I've heard We Are Robin was great

It was only really great as a concept. Writing wasn't very good from the little I read.

Doom patrol was a bit messy at first but will hopefully improve.

Please buy vision user marvel needs to be shown quality does sell. You cant even blame marketing they pushed the shit out of it.

I'm going to buy the Ms. Marvel omnibus which comes out around Christmas. It's issues 1-18 I believe. Is that a good decision to have that be my only Ms. Marvel purchase?

>I think the big thing is that there are no SHIELD books to help explain what's going on

No, the problem is entirely lack of editorial oversight over consistency. SHIELD does not need its own book, it needs clearly stated rules that need to be followed
>Who is Big Boss, i.e. Fury's replacement if Fury is not back as the leader
>Is Fury's replacement someone who is actively meant to be an antagonist, or a good guy who gives heroes support?
>Is it UN based or part of the America military-industrial complex and where are they based
>No more fucking dismantling SHIELD and re-starting it from scratch, after it's been infiltrated, AGAIN.

And so forth. You need ground rules, some vague sense of hierarchy and people to follow them. And Dum Dum not be a goddamn LMD.

>post yfw the pendulum is swinging back

It was alright, but they never got the chance to do anything.
Introduction arc where one guy got killed, straight into Robin War, then the last bit with a really neat plot about some kid that lacked facial muscle control, so his rich parents had him get plastic surgery so he was always smiling. Then he ended up in juvie and started idolizing to Joker.
Gets out of juvie, kills his parents, and starts the Jokerz gang from Batman Beyond.

If it had a few more issues, there could have been a story about the Robins having a turf war or something.

It won't show em shit, you'll just be helping them make money off of a DC exclusive. I would urge people to not be stupid and wait because Marvel will release an "omnibus" of the run down the road and it's better than paying full price for two trades, hell, Vol 1 of Vision is 2 bucks cheaper than Omega Men but the latter has twice the amount of issues.

Isn't Marlel the one always going bankrupt?

The thing is they still release titles with 'progressive' characters. And their creators line-up is still more diverse then Marvel's.
So it's not like those critics genuinely care for progressiveness. They just like to hate on DC while sucking Marvel's cock and they use this old stupid song about evil anti-minority DC even though DC was always way ahead of Marvel in the amount and the quality of minority characters and creators. They just don't shove it and force it like Marvel does. Not to mention how every time Marvel tries to force any minority for brownie points they end up producing shit that does a disservice to the minority in questions.

She made out with Zatanna?

Yup, Locked lips and brushed tongues and shit. Real gross.

Rich can't handle the fact that traditional superhero funnybooks are selling better than his hyper progressive "preachies" from his buddies at Marvel.

Like most liberal white males, he is self-loathing of his own race and gender and feels the constant need to constantly apologize for his supposed white male privlege. Because being the same gender and race as a funny book hero makes him feel guilty.

It's a mental disorder.

Plus, he's a giant turd sandwich. Let's not gloss over that fact.

>gross

You're a strange man, user.

Valuing human life, protecting oneself from authority and being able to speak ones mind without reprisal are all pro-liberty views.

The political specrum ranges from support for total authority (complete control over every person) to support for no authority (anarchy). Realistically, humans deal best center-right. Some authority to handle larger issues, but more freedoms to live freely as they choose. You just can't go about physically harming others. The far left demand we not hurt anyones feeling either, so stamp out freedoms of expression and thought.

Well i think it was zatanna and wondy.
It was the wonder woman zatanna and batgirl issue of brave and the bold where zatana and wondy took barbra out for a night partying.

It should have been the killing joke prolouge instead of what we got.

DC tried their hands on diversity with DC YOU, which in case people forgot, failed miserably.

New 52 had the perfect blend of experimentation that worked as a supplement to the existing status quo. To bad people were too busy criticising it for not being >muh universe. If New52 had Wally and Donna from the beginning, it'd have been perfect.

>muh new 52
It was a shitty halfassed reboot and you should've known it wasn't ever going to stick when a bunch of casuals suddenly got into Wonder Woman of all things

Fuck off cunt. I'm one of those casuals

Closer to Johns Aquaman in tone. But with more monsters, more history with Atlantis's colonies, the fate of his mother, Arthur and Mera running Atlantis and friction with the people.

Parker did better with Mera overall especially her perception of the surface as well as her relationship with Arthur.

>her perception of the surface
It will be interestimg to see what shes like in the movie for that
>her relationship with Arthur
This sadly will be shit an actor who made up lies about her husband for money cannot possibly get into the right frame of mind for the role.

It was called Mile 42 or something like that.

>you should've known it wasn't ever going to stick
But New52 is still ongoing now.

Wait. Then what was that scene where she tries to chain him up?

How are stuff like Sheriff, Clean Room and Doom Patrol comfy? Doom Patrol had people complaining about it being confusing.
Deathstroke seems the most experimental in it's storytelling.

Have Marvel really been that experimental since Secret wars. Most of their experimental stuff, except for Vision, MK and BP(Two out the three are shit) seems to come off as aiming for the Hawkguy and Kamala audience.

>Please give me sponsorship money, Marvel: The Article

Considering how much Rich has pissed off Marvel in the past with his "leaks" I don't see that happening.

>Avogadro's Market
>6022

nice

That doesn't mean he won't write fluff articles for Marvel occasionally or kills stories when they offer the incentive like supposedly he did for Slott and Bendis.

He also goes out of his way to screw DC whenever possible and portraying them in the worst light and not realizing even if Didio/Johns/Lee were SJW Mother Theresas, DC would still largely be the same since it's a profit driven operation there to make bank.

>Creative Bankruptcy
>lack of anything vaguely experimental
good
Experimental shit always has happened in B or C list titles.

A really bad Saturday morning cartoon in 2006? I liked the Bizarro comic, now THAT felt like a good Saturday morning cartoon.

Oh yeah. Rich is a cunt. I just think he's delusional if he thinks he's gonna get marvel sponsorship.
Or just delusional in general.

Yes, but it's not the company publishing Civil war 2.

>their Talent Workshop Graduates.
A lot of their graduates are doing stuff at Marvel right now.

lol

Yeah whoever wrote that must be fuming.

>The DC Comics statistics for direct market sales for August 2016 showed them dominating DC Comics.

DC is beating everyone, including themselves

...

I think it was 'North 40', it was even storytimed a little while ago.

That's the spice.
I really dug that comic, it's a pity we didn't get more.

>It's creative bankrupt turning back to the fundamentals?
Writing good stories is bigotry because it emphasizes the beauty in stories and thus makes bad (ugly) stories feel bad. All stories are equal! The diverse ones are just better at being equal, right?

Sometimes, I just want to go to my favorite bar and order my favorite beer. I like that place, I like that beer. Yeah, now and again I'll want to mix it up, try something else on the tap or even try a new place, but I don't want my favorite bar to be like another bar or serve something else.

Point is, Just because Marvel is running around swapping out heroes and the industry is riding Erica Henderson's dick doesn't mean the entire industry and community as a whole has to follow suit. There's still room for just classic heroes in classic storylines. Something is only different when other things stay the same. Let Marvel and Image be trendy and let DC do what it does. That's better for comics as a whole.

>Maybe if they wrote good books instead of just changing a character's gender or race people would be interested in reading it.

>>Maybe if they wrote good books instead of just changing a character's gender or race people would be interested in reading it.

>>>Maybe if they wrote good books instead of just changing a character's gender or race people would be interested in reading it.

Madness, pure madness.

As crazy as it fucking sounds, a lot of the time the right course of action is to simply give the audience what the audience wants.

youtu.be/ETgk56xT4Mk

>Too bad people were too busy criticising it for not being >muh universe

That is, and always will be, a 100% valid criticism.

you got some nerve buddy

True

Oh shit nigga

I want Incase to draw Starfire

Perfect

Well, Marvel did publish Onta of all people. Anything is possible.

>posts an asexual character to criticize someone not sharing your fetish

Jeez, Marveldrones sure get triggered just by the simple fact DC is outselling Marvel thanks to Rebirth.

Fuck you, the audience wants what we tell it it wants. Now our Islamic transgender Spider-Man book and preorder tickets for our next social justice approved mad libs script Star Wars film, drone. Unless you want to be on the wrong side of history?

What's wrong with double shipping? Marvel has done it.

I think what I love best about Rebirth is that it's just a course correction for the New 52 but not a reboot. They take what has been working since 2011 while slowly but surely reincorporating elements from before the reboot to make for a stronger universe overall.

...

Audiences are idiots.

Not as dumb as Marvel's current business decisions, however.

Agreed user.

>Marvel Comics is diversifying the tone and feel of the line
>Deadpool
How the fuck is over saturating Memepool diversifying?

>Marvel Comics is diversifying the tone and feel of the line
What's funny about this is they aren't; at all. They're just replacing all their male characters with female characters and turning most of the books into comedies for children.