Civil War II #5 Disscussion Part Deux

We already know Carol wins, and it's pretty unlikely at this point Miles is going to choose her side.

This is some fucking bullshit, Bendis

these big ass events need to stop happening

post your face when Ulysses predicts Carol killing an innocent

right after this you get inhumans vs xmen and right after that you get the whole house divided shit and that'll end just in time for the next big summer event, annihilation II

Bendis has an almost uncanny knack for writing franchises/characters he latches onto in ways that are completely contrary to what endeared fans to them in the first place.
>GotG fans like crazy, cosmic-centric sci-fi completely removed from Earth affairs so I'll shoehorn more humans on the team and send them to Earth more
>Venom is from a race of murderous alien symbiotes so lets make him an aberration and his race is actually super nice
>X-Men. Just...X-Men.
I'd call it a gift if it didn't routinely happen to shit I care about.
Bendis, you keep your fucking hands away from The Captain or anyone who was a part of Nextwave.

...

Ah, good thing BP instant-transmissioned out of the way.

Someone on CBR pointed out that Bendis writing in the book is following a pattern:

Stark does something wreakless, Carol goes after him, they get into an argument, then Ulysses gets a vision that distracts them, and they go off to stop a murder.

Which part? Cage is right. Having advanced STEM degrees doesn't make you infallible or mean shit beyond you knowing a lot about certain STEM fields, despite what engineers like to think.

So when Bendis pays whores to dress up like his waifu, which costume does he go with?

When Steve blows away the White House or Lincoln Memorial.

so he'll end the only thing that ever happened on his run?

Was annihilation II actually confirmed or is that still a meme?
I don't think I can survive annihilation II.

I thought he meant the fact that BM doesn't act like that at all on top of the fact that he doesn't even fully agree with Carol.

It's just a meme

No, wait...That's the United States Capitol Dome in the background.

So how long will it take for "meme" to replace every form of word that relates to "idea"?

By the look of things, it's already taken out "theory" and "rumor"

No you idiot, the fact is that Blue Marvel shouldn't be making a comment like that in the first place. It comes off like this is what Bendis thinks a "smart" person would do.

So what was accomplished on that fight aside from destroying the Guardians ship?

>We already know Carol wins
No we don't. There is absolutely no way that Ulysses preempting every threat so that it's stopped and ending all drama could ever be the status quo.

aside from the fact that it completely ignores every characterization that Ewing has given Blue Marvel (you know, for the past 3 fucking years, at this point the guy is his real daddy), Blue Marvel doesn't even agree with Carol in the Ultimates comicbook

the emtpy briefcase was the last straw for him

"Art"

Carol will win somehow. Maybe Stark will kill Ulysses and then go into hiding. That's still a Carol victory.

I don't get it, why did they suddenly stop fighting? You'd think that Carol arresting Miles would only make things worse.

It's only used in this context on this site
>inb4 muh sekrit club
but in any case, something being a "meme" is used more in the context of a really, really stupid idea or a theory spread with malicious intent to troll or far fetched rumor.
Except if it is a real meme.
Oh, and something being meme-y also means it's "reddit", which means, stupid, unquestioned, and surprisingly popular in a watered down, less exciting version that will be the only version remembered from now on.

Stark has to go MIA somehow to make way for Ririririririri Williams. And Doom.

Please don't hurt Victor, Benis. The face is all new.

Because the ethics of policing future crime is one thing. But when future crime is telling us a black kid is going to kill an old white dude everyone agrees it's time to throw that fucker in jail.

>The GotG's ship gets destroyed
>This somehow means they're stuck on Earth even though they could just ask Carol for a ship, or take one of the hundreds of spaceships on Earth (including an entire alien spaceship scrapyard in Southeast Asia)
Fucking Bendis

And we'll have to deal with another "hotshot writer" referencing everything that happened in the second movie, can't wait for Ego the Living Kurt Russell-ish Looking Man to show up in my comics.

And wtf happened to the reason they were fighting in the first place? Where's that random woman Nightcrawler ported away? If they're fine with Miles getting arrested on this vision and no longer resisting, are they going to hand this chick back off to Carol now?

Or are we just going to repeat the same shit again with another pointless battle to free Miles?

Fuck this event.

>And wtf happened to the reason they were fighting in the first place?
Contrary to Tony's assertion that Carol "literally" left them no choice, there was absolutely no reason for them to fight.
What would Tony have acomplished if he had "won" the fight? Absolutely nothing.
The far more rational thing to do would have been for the heroes to try and get the public and the government to turn on Carol's Minority Report program and boot her out. But they didn't even bother trying, they went straight to punching for no reason.

Well... Ego has had a humanoid avatar in comics before and him looking a bit more like Kurt Russell than he already did isn't all that bad. I'm more worried about in-jokes about his appearance by shoving in lines from Russell roles.

>And the people they ask me, have you paid your dues, Ego, have you paid your dues? And old Ego says 'Yessir the check is in the mail!'

I ignored the previous thread, but I have to ask, what is there to talk about? WHAT? Unless you have a need to vent some of your frustration, which in that case, you should seek professional help

Upcoming events - DoX/IvX/Resurrection, Monsters Unleashed, Clone conspiracy, something with Champions

...

You know what? I fucking will. This board has literally nothing interesting to read, or discuss

>And wtf happened to the reason they were fighting in the first place? Where's that random woman Nightcrawler ported away?
Welcome to McGuffins, user-kun. I really cannot see how so many people on Cred Forums thought that nobody would be relevant when everything that's happened has been spoiled by the covers and centered about those 5-6 characters Bendis likes to write.

Can we add this to the endless list of Gamora jobbing under Bendis' pen?

See you tomorrow

>I ignored the previous thread,
>what is there to talk about?

The problem is that Carol is "right" but Bendis made her go full retard just for the sake of conflict. Using Ulysses' predictions for stuff like helping the Infinaut makes perfect sense. But they had to turn her into a fascist that arrests people based on the predictions because Bendis.

yeah, your wife's son was looking for you

Exactly. Hell, there was in fact absolutely nothing wrong in using Ulysses' prediction to evacuate Project PEGASUS and try and take out Thanos. The fact that War Machine happened to die doesn't mean that it was a bad idea, he could have died on any mission he's ever been on.

>Join us for a #CivilWarII discussion with writer Dan Slott, editor Nick Lowe, and Isha Aran tomorrow at 3pm ET on Facebook Live and ABC News Live!

Oh boy

Wait, what has Dan Slott written related to Civil War II? Anything?

>Slott
>Lowe
The fall guys for the real culprit who has gone into hiding?

Has Bendis done anything public since he went to E3 last year?

He wasn't at the CWII panel at SDCC either

just done reading the issue. Fuck, it's not even funnybad anymore, this shit is infuriating

but why

>individual character books

"hey i'm gonna sit this one out. it's stupid and i don't need to be involved because it's gonna blow up in everyone's face"

>main CW2 book

"Here I am, fighting along side you as your ally."

Do none of the editors and writers in Marvel talk to each other?

I'm surprised that Bendis didn't ignore the fact that the Scarlet Witch is sitting this one out.

>I can't be bothered writing an actual argument so I'll just make an appeal to authority

Bendis is like the average Trump voter, I see.

He's doing it on purpose. Bendis doesn't want tou to agree with Blue Marvel or anyone else on Carol's side, so their arguments are always very badly made.

No way is Bendis having Kitty get cucked?!

I guess he wants his self insert Kong to be her endgame considering he introduced 616 Kong and IIRC he was an adult and not a teen.

To be fair the humans in the team are not the problem especially since the GotG had a lot of earth based and human heroes when DnA took over.

The thing though is that those humans had cosmic origins or ties with cosmic stuff, the only GotG that didn't was Jack Flag and the comic really made you know how out of fucking place he was.

But yes Bendis is a hack.

Just to make Kitty leave GotG and go to his next book. Wait till she appears in Jessica Jones

He already said he was going to have an X-Men character appear in Jessica Jones, most people thought it was going to be Eva Bell but I can see it being Kitty.

How many issues are left? It feels like this fuck fest will never end.

But their ship is super advanced, even though it got one-shotted by the biggest jobber in Avengers history.

In Power Man & Iron Fist, Luke and Danny explicitly said they were sitting out, and then Danny got arrested for reasons. Last issue ended with the reveal that Ulysses got a vision that said Luke was planning a prison break, so they're going to have to stop him.
But Bendis won't pay attention to ANY of that shit.

>considering he introduced 616 Kong and IIRC he was an adult and not a teen.
This never happened wtf. Do you even read comics?

>he introduced 616 Kong
Pretty sure that was Weisman.

It's funny how true this is.
But given how "Champions" is set to star Miles, I'm going to bet the next issue of "Civil War II" will involve some kind of a jailbreak, ending with one final vision from Ulysses that the book FINALLY sticks with to the end of the event.

It happened but it wasn't Bendis, it was Weisman in Starbrand and Nightmask.

Kenny is in college.

Venom always was an aberration but not in the way Bendis wrote it. Venom was the NICE one since he wanted to cooperate with his host instead of suck him dry. The reason he was in a container was due to his race imprisoning him since they considered not being psychotic murder/adrenaline junkies as mental insanity.

It's more that Kitty is now considering jumping to Tony's team after seeing what Carol did to Miles.

reddit.com/r/Marvel/comments/53r5qx/new_marvel_comics_for_september_21_2016_official/d7vjast

This whole thread is just as hilarious.
>I get to read this for free because I work at a comic shop, and I still want a refund
Kek

>People still think this is really Carol.

>How many issues are left?

Still got 3 issues to go now that they added a #8. It's 4 if you include the epilogue.

So like Secret Wars it's going to continue past the new continuity that's supposed to happen after the event is finished.

REDDIT RAVES ABOUT "CIVIL WAR II":

>Why are we spending pages and pages of this fight just quipping? I appreciate the artwork, but the fights themselves have no ideological stakes (Strange vs the x-men? why? Kate vs Aurora?) and they don't move the overall narrative forward. I also thought the Miles/Flash set up was artificial and a waste of Miles first encounter with a 616 symbiote.

>I still do not know, why I am reading this atrocity.

>This is turning out worse than Axis.

>God damn it. There are no stakes in this Civil War now. Everyone is just throwing jokes at each other. No one feels like they are really getting betrayed or feel like actual people.

>The more I think about this issue the more I detest it.

>Some of the dialogue during the fight was cringy and off-putting. Not to mention that the fight itself felt really forced. Marquez' art is fantastic, but it's not amazing enough for me to think this is a good issue unfortunately.

>Absolute garbage

>I get to read this for free because I work at a comic shop, and I still want a refund

>Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you Bendis.

>God what a terrible arc this is. I love the art, but the writing is just godawful.

>Minority report all over again.

>just trying to get a handle on how much extra money i'm going to have for the rest of the year not buying this shit anymore...

>It hurts, make it stop. Bendis touched me in my no-no place

For how much we complain about Reddit, it's remarkable how often their feelings on these sorts of topics mirror ours.

Well a lot of reddit users go here and vice versa, makes sense.

>Every single comic with a tie in is noticeably lower quality then pre-event
Believe it or not; but people actually seem to have noticed this:
bleedingcool.com/2016/09/18/how-problematic-is-the-civil-war-ii-tag-to-marvels-crossover-titles/

>when Ulysses predicts Carol killing an innocent
Ever seen (or read) The Crucible? When the girls decided to name the Judge's wife as a witch ... things don't go as smoothly as they expected.

So Ulysses' superheor name is "The Profiler"?

How much more on-the-nose is this event going to get?

I'm not sure how it's possible, but as I read each issue, I just feel more tired than I did from the one before it. I'm not even reading them all in a row. I'm reading them in the storytime threads.

Is Dox/IvX gonna be any good? Uncanny is the only X book I'm following and it's not great, I might drop it.

No, Carol will win the "moral" battle

>Opening with a double-page splash of Tony and Carol’s teams barreling towards each other, Bendis quickly starts bouncing around the battlefield, showcasing Doctor Strange trying to outmaneuver Storm and Iceman, or Flash Thompson’s Venom having a legitimate beef with newbie Spider-Man Miles Morales (and vice versa). But with this action-packed milieu, Bendis is able to effectively channel the blockbuster Marvel movies and inject a great sense of humor, that makes some of these stranger bouts more memorable. There are some great beats here, like Magik teleporting Sam Wilson cross-country after some mild chauvinism, Nova sucker-punching the Blue Marvel (“Ya burnt!” Sam cracks, in one of the book’s funniest lines), or Aurora of Alpha Flight winding up for a knockout punch, promising that she’ll give Kate Bishop something to remember her by.

Brown nose

Nobody should take comics reviews seriously, they are going to praise the shittiests of books just not get on the company bad side

Newsarama gave Flintstones a 3 of 10 cause they didn't get the Vietnam stuff

See another reason

Are you fucking serious? The Vietnam stuff was great.

They thought it was mean spirited

Nice projection.

Marvel is outsourcing to drawthreads?

What a bunch of weenies. The Flintstones is one of the best current comics out right now (which isn't saying much but still). if someone said I'd say that months back, i'd call you a communist.

Where'd this review come from?

Wanda shitting on CW2 was the pleasant surprise and highlight for me.

Strange participating and being against something he does all the time is retarded.

I was glad that Wanda said fuck you to a Bendis event.

Strange's position makes no sense.

When's gonna be the Bendis event where the characters have to save themselves from a Bendis event?

>I was glad that Wanda said fuck you to a Bendis event.

Wanda remembers what happens when she's in the throes of Bendis. She sidestepped that shit like a boss.

Poor Dr. Strange though. Only there to job to Storm and Icegay. At least have him job to Magik! It's not like he's been written any better under Bendis, so he should've sidestepped too.

So Tony's AI is a much better fighter than he is right? Karnak was getting the better of and only pulled the last punch because T'challa grabbed Tony.

Bingo? Big no.

You forgot the sexist/misogyny box

Well to be fair Carol, Kitty, Thing and Venom do have cosmic ties, no matter how vague.

Tony on the other hand though..

Don't forget that they also shat on the Grayson Future End issue.

None of these fuckers deserve DC.

This entire fight is stupid. They're literally fighting for no reason. I'm completely emotionally uninvested in all of the characters except for maybe Magneto's team because I want to see them wreck the Inhumans (which isn't going to happen because Marvel seems to have a fetish for them.)

Yeah, what is Strange even doing there? Didn't he sit out the first Civil War?

Someone arrests you for shit you haven't done, is that something you need a superhero to protect you from?
That's one side.

Someone warns you about a crime about to take place soon, wouldn't you want a superhero to stop that crime from ever happening?
That's the other side.

These two choices are mutually incompatible.

He sat out the first Civil War because he doesn't kung-fu muggers or fly around shooting lasers at aliens, his enemies are in other unknowable dimensions.
U.S. jurisdiction doesn't extend to the afterlife, religious persecution is Constitutionally prohibited even when magic is real, and as far as most of the world knows this guy is just a smelly hippie.

He's there for the same reason the GOTG is there and for the same reason Bendis had Thanos fight an Avengers lineup similar to the 2012 version in Avengers Assemble. Movies.

IGN has had enough...

Glad to see this issue getting pummeled everywhere. But the IGN review still gets it wrong. This event has ALWAYS had its flaws outweighing its strengths. If you want to pinpoint when CW2 started to suck, it was issue 0. It's only gotten worse.

OP, in case you weren't told, Scarlet Witch has already shown up, and was shit upon already. So somebody needs to cross that square off now.

I remember reading the original Civil War when I was young and stupid, and what strikes me most here, as others have mentioned, is how arbitrary the divisions feel. You never get anybody's opinion on how Ulysses' visions work.

In Millar's book, it was clearly set up that all of the street-level heroes wouldn't capitulate (maybe not followed up on, but still), and you got to see the dividing line being drawn with that one panel of Stark, Reed and Pym at the White House. It was the brains against the heart, the lofty intellectuals of the universe against the hard-hitting solders.

This doesn't have that. I don't know why Dr. Strange is fighting on Tony's side. I don't.

Next time, read the fucking books before you post shit.

IGN is maximum pleb though. Cyborg 1 has a lower score than this

Honestly, what the hell even happened? Millar pitched a mess of an outline (I don't know if it's still up but Brevoort posted it years ago and it had Millar included a version of World War Hulk in it) but they whittled and refined it into something coherent, even if it had a vast lot of out-of-character issues and Millar being Millar (under a PG-13 rating).

With CW2 it doesn't seem like they're trying. What, did the editors refrain so that Bendis would unfairly get all the blame, or was what Bendis submitted so awful that this is the best version? Or was it just the short crunch time to develop it? And even then didn't they know the artist's wife was pregnant? Wouldn't they have had a back-up plan for that? And if she's pregnant and has a broken leg, why did they decide to add an extra issue to the schedule?

>oh, oh, oh! you know what would be cool? if superheroes fought each other!
And that's how Millar ruined Marvel.

>that lacks dramatic (weight (or even narrative logic)
Glad that people are noticing that Tony and his team had literally no reason to instigate the fight and nothing to gain out of it.

You mean the "No more Hellstroms" scene? That's not shitting on her, it's just a joke (albeit a very bad one).

The MCU was a mistake.

>Millar pitched a mess of an outline
You mean the one where the thing that instigates the whole event is Speedball accidentally killing Pepper and Happy Hogan's kid?

This sounds like something Mark Millar would have written

That's the one. It's also the one where Captain America is de-super soldiered and Hulk returns with an army of Alien Hulk children (because Millar wanted Hulk to fuck hundreds of alien women while out in space) and Mar-Vell returns because he's Space Jesus.

Fucking casual shitposter moron,
Millar did not invent the concept of a superhero fighting another superhero.
Don't forget to breathe between all your durps.
Lots of idiots like you can die that way.

>Which part?

I'm guessing he's talking about the part where Blue Marvel justifies being on Carol's side by throwing around his degrees, which is vastly out of character. Similar to how in that FCBD issue, Bendis had Black Panther act childish when Carol and Rhodey were kissing, Bendis does not appear to have a good grasp on characterization or the editors decided to sleep in those times.

I don't think you read the books either.

Civil War II was flawed from the pitch if you ask me but we can take heart that the branding of Bendis has lost its gilding and the cracks are visible for all to see

Bendis hates Scarlet Witch. It's no surprise he hasn't used her.

>I don't know why Dr. Strange is fighting on Tony's side. I don't.
Bendis established "AWESOME FACIAL HAIR BROS!" in Invincible Iron Man, so in his mind, Tony and Stephen are besties through thick and thin.

That's really all you need

If you had friends irl you'd get it.

>projecting
Please.

Seriously! Man, bendis needs to die already!

>Beast blames Cyclops for something

Which site was it that had a reporter follow Bendis and his story department when they were writing this tripe?

I recall Bendis and his harem of fat minority women concerning themselves more about how to bring a shocking twist to the story or who to kill more than how to make a decent story. Bendis is the fucking M. Night Shyamalan of superhero comics.

take a chill pill marlelfag

Why is G4 selected? Everyone thinks Tony is right and Carol isn't a man.

Miles got arrested by Carol which is a metaphor for racial profiling.

Here's the whole thing
>z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/ar/t1603.htm

What if it's Laura cause of the "enemy of the state" event like as in a tie-in appearance? That would make sense cause of the P.I. stuff; but also give the question, "Would benis let go of his shitty waifu?"

This panel would fit great in a Loss edit. I think all of Civil War 2 has been one drawn-out loss joke, and we fail to see the brilliance.

This is a far more interesting and pressing question than literally anything CW2 has offered up.

Carol, Venom, Thing and Kitty have ties to space more than the average Cred Forums user think. The problem with them was never that, it was that Cred Forums is full of characterfags and waifufags and they all are butthurt and asspained that the original members that weren't in a movie left. In their mind, they were replaced.

So do you think they'll actually follow up on the Miles thing for the rest of the event, or will Ulysses have another fucking vision in the next issue?

Also, why do Ulysses' visions only feature death and/or destruction? Why not have a vision of somebody winning the lottery or saving a kid from being hit by a car?

Well the whole point of Civil War 2 is profiling

Now we have a mixed race teenager who is POSSIBLY going to kill Captain America, but Carol and her incompetent cohorts who thing the vision is 100% true without any context

This board is literally reddit tho

>>This is turning out worse than Axis.
We don't talk about SIXIS

I go to both places pretty regularly. Just don't get too steeped in "board culture" anywhere and you'll be fine.

I miss when CW2 was just a ripoff of Minority Report. I would LOVE to see what even inspired Marvel to make a CW2, other than the movie being released.

Did that even have any major ramifications on the Marvel Universe?
I swear, at this point they could use one of DC's many many reboots.

>Did that even have any major ramifications on the Marvel Universe?
Uh, Havok, Sabretooth, Quicksilver and Wanda are all a bit different than they were.

I wish it could've just been a small crossover between Uncanny Avengers and Magneto instead of such a retarded rushed event. Professor Skull would've been so much better without having to deal with the massive ensemble.

This sounds like an ABC show from the 80s.

>I would LOVE to see what even inspired Marvel to make a CW2, other than the movie being released.
There is no other reason. They created and rushed this event entirely because of the movie. The profiling shit was just an afterthought in order to make it look like the event had some deeper meaning behind it.

But only a little bit different?

>I wish it could've just been a small crossover between Uncanny Avengers and Magneto instead of such a retarded rushed event.
I almost feel like that's become Marvel's MO now. They catch wind of a pitch for a smaller event between books, then set up a think tank to try and make it a company-wide event.

>But only a little bit different?
Wanda and Pietro are no longer mutants (maybe?????). Fuck editorial, but the follow up in UA v.2 was seriously good.

Sabretooth is less of a murderhobo and more of a murderesident with Magneto's X-Force-in-all-but-name.

Havok is now on the RIGHT train, but we have no idea where he is after Secret Wars. Some think he might be posing as Cyke during the upcoming Death of X, but that would be cool so it won't happen.

>smaller event between books
I feel like these types of crossover/team-up style things are definitely the way to go. Like that Omega Effect thing a buncha years ago in Daredevil, or the Exiled thing in New Mutants/JiM, or Age of X. I'm fine with them slapping a one-shot on there. You get the benefit of more toys to play with, bigger threats, cross-promotion, and instead of 6 months of issues being dedicated to some silly event, you get a neat story in 5 issues across 2 months. BOOM.

Every few years you can make a crossover that encompasses an entire "family" like Second Coming or Battle of the Atom--even though the latter is tripe. It's not a fuck you to customer's wallets this way either, and it's likely many of the readers will already have couple books in that family already.

/rant

Civil War II needs more Frank the Frank. He would be great in this story.

>That dialogue
BENDIS!!!!!!!!!

How hard will Waid ignore this?

>I almost feel like that's become Marvel's MO now.
You're right in the money user. I don't know exactly where, but I remember Remender confirmed this is exactly what happened. SIXIS was gonna be just a small Uncanny Avengers story before some idiot at the office turned it into a super mega crossover event. I'm almost 100% sure they will be doing the same with Spencer's Hydra Cap story.

Civil War II is so damaging to Carol that even CBR posters are questioning her push:

>There's a lot of why nots.

>The 'first four' ladies of the Marvel universe, for instance;

>Why not Sue Richards/Invisible Woman? Movie rights.
>Why not Jean Grey? Movie rights.
>Why not Wasp? Was dead when the MCU started, then on hold because of Edgar Wright's stalled Ant-Man movie, which was later revealed to not have intended to use her anyway. Ugh.
>Why not Scarlet Witch? Was a hot mess when the MCU started, and is still kind of a mess.

>Why not Black Widow? I think they want a female super-hero with super-powers. (Although Black Widow has as many super-powers as Batdude, over at the Distinguished Competition, and that doesn't seem to prevent him from hanging with Superdude...)
>Why not She-Hulk? Perhaps seen as a derivative character of the Hulk?
>Why not Storm? Movie rights.
>Why not Monica Rambeau? The token black person has to be a dude, and preferably a sidekick/subordinate/best friend to a white main character. Black *and* female and *not* tied to a white 'main' character would explode tiny brains.
>Why not Medusa or, much better (since she's actually been an Avenger), Crystal? Who knows. It would make sense to push Crystal.
>Why not Songbird? Again, who knows. She's been ready for the big leagues since Avengers Forever, IMO.
>Why not Psylocke or Emma Frost or Kitty Pryde or Dazzler or any of a half-dozen other great female mutant characters? Movie rights.
>Why not Valkyrie, or Elsa Bloodstone, or Kate Bishop, or Misty Knight, or Tigra, or Moondragon, or Snowbird? ?
>Why not Squirrel Girl? Gah. Don't give them ideas! She could be the Harley Quinn, '4th member of the Trinity' for Marvel!

>Carol must have just seemed like the right fit for 'Marvel's Wonder Woman.' Powerful enough to feel 'super,' and yet not anything unique or original that might confuse the poor dears.

We do but only when mentioning Superior Iron Man, Hobgoblin and Carnage-Man.

io9's taking a shot at it too.

io9.gizmodo.com/marvel-s-civil-war-ii-is-another-damn-mess-1786943341

>io9's taking a shot at it too.
Damn they went IN. I thought it was just going to talk about about this issue but they shit on the entire event and why it just doesn't work.

...

t.Bendis

What's worse is they are pointing out stuff that is blatantly obvious. That's how bad this event is and makes no sense. I also like that they bring up that we just started ANAD and all of a sudden they are going at each other. No fucking build up.

Standoff should have been the build up to CW2. Carol could have sided with Hill over her methods of imprisonment and go from there

I really hope they take Bendis off major books after this.

I think it's guaranteed that Bendis is done with major events. My main concern is that Bendis has a tendency to double down when he faces harsh criticism he doesn't agree with. Remember that this is a man whose response to people saying they didn't like his Star-Lord dating Kitty Pryde and being too much like his movie version was to have Pryde dancing in a banana suit while saying OOGA CHAKA. He's never had any of his other works shit on as hard as CWII, though. Now keep in mind that there are still three issues of the main book left, all of which have been delayed. I have a sinking suspicion that Bendis is going to salt the earth by the time this is over because he's just that petty.

>delays

Please don't remind me

>was to have Pryde dancing in a banana suit while saying OOGA CHAKA.

He didn't write that.

Banana Kitty was on Dogfucker's book

>Why not Squirrel Girl? Gah. Don't give them ideas! She could be the Harley Quinn, '4th member of the Trinity' for Marvel!
But Harley is DC's Deadpool. Squirrel Girl has no analogues at DC.

It was Hopeless? If that's the case then strike that point from the record. My main point still stands about him doubling down due to criticism in a really passive aggressive way, though.

That's true though part of that list is correct. Sue, Jean, and Storm definitely are tied up with Fox and Perlmutter tried really hard to deemphasize anything that would give Fox attention.

And I find it strange to realize that Bendis is the one who killed Wasp and made Scarlet Witch a hot mess in the first place.

No, it was Humphries.

>My main point still stands about him doubling down due to criticism in a really passive aggressive way, though.

Sure, that is true.

...

Makes me wonder what the new Clone Saga sales will be like?

And if we'll ever get licenced western Pokemon comics.

Why is G4 crossed out? Tony Stark, the straight white guy, is the hero, not a minority character.
And when was there waifu favoritism?

Chances are apathy is setting in

Will they ever explain why everyone cared about Ulysses in the first issue after years of seers and time travelers. Especially since there several plots involving precogs and time travelers months prior to the events?

Yeah, I know, Bendis. But how are they going to explain that away after the event is over?

Hawkeye is the white guy

>Why is G4 crossed out?
Because Miles is getting arrested at the end of the latest issue for killing Captain America, a secret Nazi.
>when was there waifu favoritism?
Again, the latest issue. Miles is now at the center of another event for an inexplicable reason because Bendis created him.

Luke Cage is the waifu. He smack talks Blue Marvel.

Well when you make sequels to events people dislike (Civil War was popular yes but nowadays you get articles like "Why Civil War was a mistake" etc.)

This makes me so happy

>Hawkeye is the white guy
But Hawkeye isn't the villain of the event as a whole.
But Cap being a secret Nazi isn't the focus of the event.
And Miles isn't Bendis' waifu, he's a character he created, fulfilling N4. Does Miles being involved really fulfill two spaces?

>Will they ever explain why everyone cared about Ulysses in the first issue after years of seers and time travelers.
No, man. Bendis doesn't care. Marvel doesn't care. You probably think Marvel has a plan for what Nick Fury whispered to Thor to make him unworthy too.

>walk out of Cred Forums for a year waiting for SJW retardation to simmer down
>walk back in
>theres yet another fucking civil war comic
>its fucking bendis
jesus christ guys.

>Had more people chasing Pokemon at the store than Civil War II #3 last night.
Fucking savage.

What are the sales numbers for Civil War II compared to other events Bendis has written.

>But Cap being a secret Nazi isn't the focus of the event.
You're right but that's not going to stop Bendis from incorporating it into the story. It's pretty obvious that it'll be the justification behind the murder. It happens on the steps of the Capitol for god's sake.
>And Miles isn't Bendis' waifu
An OC can be a waifu if you try hard enough. It's the same reason why Miles ended up being a key character in Secret Wars.
>Does Miles being involved really fulfill two spaces?
Miles has the potential to fill a number of the spaces by himself.

Was Miles really a key character in Secret Wars? Besides providing a hamburger, what did he do?

>Newsarama gave Flintstones a 3 of 10 cause they didn't get the Vietnam stuff

I'm going to start hitting Newsarama...

Let's see....

House of M:

House of M #1 233,721
House of M #2 168,944
House of M #3 151,763
House of M #4 146,547
House of M #5 140,669
House of M #6 138,116
House of M #7 134,344
House of M #8 135,460

Secret Invasion:

04/08 Secret Invasion #1 of 8 - 272,195
05/08 Secret Invasion #2 of 8 - 197,685 (-27.4%)
06/08 Secret Invasion #3 of 8 - 186,533 ( -5.6%)
07/08 Secret Invasion #4 of 8 - 175,469 ( -5.9%)
08/08 Secret Invasion #5 of 8 - 165,958 ( -5.4%)
09/09 Secret Invasion #6 of 8 - 169,440 ( +2.1%)
10/09 Secret Invasion #7 of 8 - 154,675 ( -8.7%)
12/08 Secret Invasion #8 of 8 - 152,429 ( -1.5%)

Siege:

01/10 Siege #1 of 4 - 120,888
02/10 Siege #2 of 4 - 118,283 (-2.2%)
03/10 Siege #3 of 4 - 113,071 (-4.4%)
05/10 Siege #4 of 4 - 113,752 (+0.6%)

The word "meme" literally means an idea shared between two people.

Avengers Vs X-Men (Bendis was one of the writers, so I don't know if that counts):

03/12 AvX #0 of 12 - 165,821
04/12 AvX #1 of 12 - 258,586 (+55.9%)
04/12 AvX #2 of 12 - 193,162 (-25.3%)
05/12 AvX #3 of 12 - 184,126 ( -4.7%)
05/12 AvX #4 of 12 - 182,255 ( -1.0%)
06/12 AvX #5 of 12 - 190,705 ( +4.6%)
06/12 AvX #6 of 12 - 186,555 ( -2.2%)
07/12 AvX #7 of 12 - 179,208 ( -3.9%)
07/12 AvX #8 of 12 - 174,910 ( -2.4%)
08/12 AvX #9 of 12 - 174,346 ( -0.3%)
08/12 AvX #10 of 12 - 169,529 ( -2.8%)
09/12 AvX #11 of 12 - 167,327 ( -1.3%)
10/12 AvX #12 of 12 - 171,452 ( +2.5%)

Age of Ultron:

03/13 Age of Ultron #1 of 10 - 174,952
03/13 Age of Ultron #2 of 10 - 109,383 (-37.5%)
03/13 Age of Ultron #3 of 10 - 105,505 ( -3.5%)
04/13 Age of Ultron #4 of 10 - 101,057 ( -4.2%)
04/13 Age of Ultron #5 of 10 - 97,982 ( -3.0%)
04/13 Age of Ultron #6 of 10 - 97,242 ( -0.8%)
05/13 Age of Ultron #7 of 10 - 96,664 ( -0.6%)
05/13 Age of Ultron #8 of 10 - 95,522 ( -1.2%)
06/13 Age of Ultron #9 of 10 - 94,926 ( -0.6%)
06/13 Age of Ultron #10 of 10 - 110,947 (+16.9%)

And Civil War 2 so far:

05/16 Civil War II #0 - 183,979
06/16 Civil War II #1 - 381,737(+107.5%)
06/16 Civil War II #2 - 148,403 (-61.1%)
07/16 Civil War II #3 - 176,876 (+19.2%)
07/16 Civil War II #4 - 126,865 (-28.3%)

So I guess it's doing better than Siege and Age of Ultron so far but not as good as his other events.

>And I find it strange to realize that Bendis is the one who killed Wasp and made Scarlet Witch a hot mess in the first place.

Almost every character Bendis trashed in Avengers Disassembled is now famous. He made Scarlet Witch a killer, killed Vision, killed Hawkeye, killed Scott Lang.

Some of those characters have never really recovered in the comics from being Bendis'd but the MCU has at least turned around the "they're obscure characters nobody ever heard of" attitude of 2005.

Well as much as I dislike this event, I will say it's better than Age of Ultron.

Fuck you Bendis
Fuck you big fat cunt
I hope someone venom blast you in the ass

Age of Ultron was bad, but it didn't assassinate anyone's characters and make everyone act like idiots.

>Well as much as I dislike this event, I will say it's better than Age of Ultron.

I pity all the poor schmucks who bought the Age of Ultron trade thinking it was the story of the movie (and there were a lot of them). At least Civil War has Captain America vs. Iron Man.

He shows up dressed as Luke Cage, and so does she.

I forgot if I just imagined this or not, but was there something called Age of Ultron vs Marvel Zombies? I swear it's real, but it doesn't sound like it.

I haven't read since Banner died and Hawkeye was grossly out of character.

How much worse did things get?

I was going to say that CW2 is worse but then again Bendis' AoU had similar bad shit didn't it? He killed off She-Hulk and Black Panther in inane nonsensical ways. The pacing is just as bad.

For some reason the post-Hank death alternate timeline reveal felt mundane instead of shocking. I mean I didn't like Flashpoint, but when they revealed the Flashpoint universe it felt more energetic than AoU's Dead Hank universe.

That was during the Secret Wars crossover.

>Majority of SJW ''fans'' don't like CW2 and their sacred cow Bendis anymore.

wtf, i like CW2 now

They turned on Bendis when he had Miles say he didn't want to just be his skin color.

Him writing another black hero didn't sit well with them either.

I know that. My point is that Cred Forums is using it to replace words that describe specific ideas,

According to Cred Forums, meme is a word that can describe rumors, opinions, misinterpretations, and theories. It's oversimplifying the meanings of those words.

>They turned on Bendis when he had Miles say he didn't want to just be his skin color.

No fuck they didn't. They already didn't fuck with the event. Miles is only one small aspect of this shitty event.

>wtf, i like CW2 now

This is pretty sad. That you can't enjoy something because a group of people you despise like it. You'll be running away from shit you like all the time if that was the case.

That was during his solo and they sure as fuck did. Tumblr went apeshit on him.

You mean he's like this

I think SJWism is slowly starting to go out of fashion a bit because it doesn't sell as well as it did a couple of years ago.

That review points out that the social commentary on race is totally hamhanded and silly, which is true, but it seems like Marvel thought they would be congratulated for their trenchant social commentary. Which they might have been, last year.

That happened prior to the event.

It never sold particularly well.

I wouldn't mind if the next writer keeps Ben on the team. But yeah, Kitty needs to leave.

It was just the media latching onto a niche because it gave them a ton of clicks.

But it doesn't actually sell or make money past that.

And yes that so called niche was always there but the media really, really gave them a voice these last two or three years. More so than ever. And it honestly drowned out and polarized real issues for the worst.

Yeah, I should have clarified I was talking about the websites, not the comics. Social justice oriented commentary exploded partly because it was a strategy for reaching Millennials and people who wanted to advertise to them, plus it got hate-clicks.

He survived the Cataclysm and and the subsequent move to the new universe. Also, all that nonsense in Ultimaye End.

Miles killed Cap Hydra

Only in a possible future.

I don't read many Marvel comics. Is this event a good time to jump in?

The books launching after this event would be a much better place to jump into the universe. Event comics generally suck, so I can't recommend getting into a universe through them.

Earthers on team isn't the problem. Lack of imagination any anything actually interesting ever happening was.

I think lack of imagination was the real problem. Nothing new is introduced and everything reused is just used in a straight forward way.

We had an Annihilation II. It was called Conquest and launched the GotG book.

Fucking casuals.

>Deadliest woman in the galaxy
>Bendis just uses her as the damsel in distress the Guardians save every other issue

Guys...I am so sorry I every said Bendis on Guardians or Synder on BvS could be good...

This is why I want to do comic reviews. I feel an actual critical analysis of books will be a breath of fresh air against people reading the comic once and saying, 'Dur, I like the punching'

Iron Man used to go into space all the time. Thanos' first appearance is Iron Man # 55

I haven't read issue 2 yet but the first issue was beautiful.

Fuck Newsarama.

Nah

Bump

not really

She has a movie coming up. She'll "win" & get the Asshole's Redemption treatment just like Stark got after CW 1.

Whether or not the movie will do well is another story...

I'm not familiar with Bendis, can anyone show me examples of Bendis speak?

Examples? Of Bendis speak?

You mean Brian Michael Bendis?

>>Why not She-Hulk? Perhaps seen as a derivative character of the Hulk?

Big Green Ally McBeal can't keep a series going for longer than 12 issues. They sure as hell can't fill two hours with stale legal shenanigans.

English is not my first language, but that feels extremely stupid to me.

He seems to write like people used to for shiity 90s sitcoms.

>He seems to write like people used to for shiity 90s sitcoms.
Yes and he writes EVERY character he gets his hands on this way. Not to mention he's the worst dialogue whore ever. He will fill pages and pages with the most inane and pointless dialogue that contributes absolutely nothing to the story or characterization.

The characters in this page all seem to have the same voice as well.

Ha ha! Great edit, user! Now show the real version.

user?

The dialogue was particularily fucking awful in this issue

The sad truth is not many of those characters can hold a movie, and despite popular belief among liberals and the internet not a lot of woman are super into action films.

Even Superhero movies for them are mostly for the leading men. Because at the end of the day they're just as shallow as men, just with a bit more smugness attached.

That's not to say this is true for all woman, it's just not the vast majority that the internet makes it out to be. It's why female lead action movies bomb, it's why female lead comics sell mediocre, it's why Supergirl under performed, it's why things like Nubusters flounder at the box office.

Hell everyone is cheering on DC Superhero Girls for marketing Superheroes to little girls and damn near everyone I've baby sat wants to use those toys to have the heroes go shopping or have sleep overs or do "girl stuff"

Captain Marvel was likely chosen because she's the safest bet thanks to her "Hey I know that word" name and because really she's all they have. Fox has the female characters they'd want, and as much as I love Shulkie she's not really an easy character for the big screen.

Psycho Mantis?

Two tie-in books are delayed from October to November.

...

So did Namor die?

What the fuck are you talking about, she always had long running series.
Soule ended it on his own terms.

>Captain Marvel was likely chosen because she's the safest bet thanks to her "Hey I know that word" name and because really she's all they have

Her name is also not gender specific, meaning they can market it to boys too. See the reasoning why Disney's Rapunzel became Disney's Tangled

...

>I'm a Pleb That Never Read Comics Before The 2010's: The Post

"The Final Vision". Hm. So this hinting that this Ulysses bitch is going to die or go away? Figures as there is no hint of him in that upcoming IvX event.

How may issues is IvX supposed to be?

Six

Double shipping?

Carol looks really good in the Oath
I think she wins

Wanda is the only character who has talked sense in this event.
Robinson, to his credit, developed Wanda alot in SW #9 by having her stand apart from the crowd.

No

yuck

They finally started fighting! And the GOTG and Doctor Strange are taking sides for some reason.

>tfw I got into Marvel through Civil War

Yes. He's getting resurrected, it seems.

>I think she wins
Define "win". If the visions stop in any way, does she truly win? Her entire winning of this seems to be based on using this kid's visions indefinitely and it doesn't seem like Ulysses will be the new status quo going forward.

Time travel

Actually you know what, we need to have a betting pool or a bingo card for what the resolution of Civil War II will be. Anybody got any guess suggestions?

Look at the OP.

Aw, so no magic mumbo jumbo to attach his head? No FrankeNamor?

No I mean, specific scenes for just the final issue itself, not just "the side that Miles Morales chooses wins" and "final battle rushed during last pages of last issue."

Wanda points out that as a witch she deals with seeing and interpreting futures and prophecies on the regular. She offers to advise, but will not get involved with petty fighting.

Strange, despite the same factors applying to him, and his disinterest in petty disputes, sides with Stark and fights for no logical reason.

>Yes and he writes EVERY character he gets his hands on this way
This is best illustrated by pic related. Seriously, could anyone tell which is real and which is an edit without looking too closely at the artwork? You could give his dialogue to any character and you would never notice.

Why did they even kill him in the first place, I mean Doctor Strange killed everyone from Spectrum's world specifically for one thing.

Muh revenge. And Strange has movie, can't kill him.

It's astonishing how this book just doesn't work right down to Carol and Tony. Iron Man vs Cap works because they do at least present the idea that they were once friends, but Carol and Tony never seem to be on the same page once in this event. In fact, this book reads like an extended Iron Man issue.

Hell, what did Tony do to convince people to follow him into fighting Carol? Better yet, what are Tony's plans? Because I swear to God, if by the end of this event, Tony is about to murder Ulysses and someone goes "Woah woah woah! I didn't sign up for this", I'm going to blow up comic con.

>Venom fans had to wait like 18 years for the concept to be done well.
>Book dies.
>Benis literally flips the script, ruining any future stories.

I feel for them.

Who's next?

What character hasn't Bendis ruined yet? 616 Peter?

Slott has already done that tho

Once Silver Surfer is cancelled (in less than 15 issues) he may be placed under Benis.

being bendis'd is worst. At least Slott cares a little about continuity.

It's astonishing that some people STILL defend this crap.

Slott should just cut out the middle man and write an actual Doctor Who comic for Titan.

>The Final Vision
So it's true, then. This Miles/Captain America thing is nothing more than filler.

Fucking hell, this event. I feel like we're going to have to read it from start to finish in one go when it's done if we want to even TRY to get any sense from it.

That would imply they put thought into it.

True, but it could also reveal how LITTLE thought was put into it.

As one person on CBR noted, the whole event is a loop: Tony does something reckless, Carol confronts him, they argue and/or fight, and then Ulysses has another vision. Rinse and repeat.

The awesome Byrne run was how long ago?

Slott kinda challenged her a bit. That series had it's moments.

Soule's run was hideous & boring.

Marvel has no idea what to do with the She Hulk. I'm not looking forward to December's pot of spaghetti thrown at the wall to see what sticks.

I liked Soule's run, even the art, but I understand that it's incredibly off putting to the masses.

Deadpool kind of screwed She-Hulk over because her thing is now Deadpool's thing. And that was a big reason why she worked.

>He killed off She-Hulk
What the fuck is his beef with She-Hulk?

>I'm a Pleb That Never Read Comics Before The 2010's: The Post

Please.

I witnessed the birth of the She Hulk on a Benny Hill episode. In response, Stan Lee hastily created a Trademark Holder known as Jennifer Walters.

The Savage She Hulk was a lousy, ill conceived mess that didn't last 3 years. After that, Shulkie did team ups until she filled in for the FF. That worked out well for a bit. Later she helped out in the Avengers. Sex with Hawkeye & flying the quinjet was all she was good for.

I won't go on. The She Hulk is like Rogue; she peaked long ago & now she's just filler on various teams.

She needs a decent rogues gallery & memorable story arcs. A hero's career live & dies by its arch nemesis. Titania just doesn't cut it.

Two years actually.

Her first run was 25 issues.

I'm so sorry.

Yes, the series that gave us Man Elephant & Ultima. Who else could take down the Grappler?

>Her name is also not gender specific, meaning they can market it to boys too.
Market what exactly? The toys? No straight boy will buy her toys.

His reason is that he's gonna be in a movie in two months.

Can I turn a child gay by buying them Captain Marvel toys?

No, but if you buy them Unbeatable Squirrel Girl comics you will.

Leth's Hellcat will make him a power-bottom in no time.

If you enjoyed it, that's fine.

I was disappointed in the much hyped DD vs SH court "battle". Soule's a lawyer right? That was the best he could do?

Girls, maybe.

How do you challenge someone with Immeasurable strength, virtually instant healing factor, highest level of endurance, Captain American & Gamora level fighting skills?

Heroes without flaws or problems are quite boring. Look at her 20,000 issue sales as proof.

The southern waifu can rise again

Being good as a supporting character illustrates the point

>they didn't have Duggan write her pregnancy story and have it be a lesbian space pregnancy

Only if Fox relinquishes the movie rights...

>The Savage She Hulk was a lousy, ill conceived mess that didn't last 3 years.

So you were allegedly around back then and instead your problem is you can't tell the difference between 12 issues and 25 issues. BRAVO

>I won't go on.

Obviously you won't go on because then it'd disprove your "She-Hulk can't keep a series going on for longer than 12 issues" claim in

I really love the Cassaday redesign

WHAT IF WE WERE WRONG
KITTY PRYDE ISN'T HIS WAIFU
ITS STAR LORD

can someone draw luke cage as a waifu instead of macho strong man

>the equivalent of the UN
>saying things like "wow" and "are you kidding me"
it doesn't feel natural, why does everyone act like spunky-cutesy teenagers

>final version not even written by Bendis
>some other writer has to clean up this mess of an event
this is just sad

I think he just needs someone to keep asking questions. This was Brevoort's comments to like an early draft of Secret Invasion:

>Brian,

>Here’s some feedback on SECRET INVASION #1, all relatively easy stuff to nip and tuck. This issue came together nicely.

>1) From Nick Lowe on SWORD:

>S.W.O.R.D. isn’t a wing or subsidiary of S.H.I.E.L.D. or the US gov’t. It’s a completely separate entity that has worked with S.H.I.E.L.D. on occasion. They’re an intergalactic peace-keeping organization that doesn’t operate under any government or world’s control. In ASTONISHING, Brand mentions to Maria Hill that the only reason that S.H.I.E.L.D. knows that S.W.O.R.D. exists is because of her relationship with Nick Fury.

>Possible solution- Rather than an inspection, Dugan’s reason for coming to the Peak (what the ship is called) could be one of a regular meeting they’ve set up to share information. It could still be special that it’s Dugan coming (maybe Maria Hill is the usual rep from S.H.I.E.L.D.) and I could imagine that Brand has a prior relationship with Dugan since she had one with Fury. And I could also imagine a few of the S.W.O.R.D. agents being really into meeting him.

>Agent Brand’s characterization- She’s not really an excited school girl. She’s a sarcastic, all-business, hard-*** who has little time for…anything, really. But, like I said before, I could see that she and Dugan might have a positive relationship. But we usually treat her like she’s the one with the knowledge. She doesn’t ask questions too much. One place in particular that I might ask for a simple change would be reversing the dialogue on pages 18-19 panel 5 so that the agent asks the question and Brand answers it. The only other thing that I might ask is that Brand, rather than radioing the Helicarrier, might be trying to radio S.W.O.R.D. HQ and it might be jammed by XXX XXXXXX.

my problem is that it sounds like one person is talking as opposed to different characters with vastly different backgrounds
Carol (military) Tony (rich dude) and Hawkeye (ex-criminal) should not sound the same, their speech patterns and words they're using should not be near identical

Carol used to be on the same side of Tony in CWI

>Marko Djurdjevic back with Marvel
I'm still mad. Great art talent wasted on a shitty publisher.

Both series sucked goat balls.

No, I won't go on because Marvel has no idea what to do with her on paper, let alone on screen. Maybe, Jennifer Walters needs to be killed off & a more interesting person needs to bear the She Hulk mantle.

>Both series sucked goat balls.

doesn't support

>Big Green Ally McBeal can't keep a series going for longer than 12 issues.

I guess you're letting your anger at She-Hulk blind you from making a coherent argument.

>Kitty over Ben

Ok, why was the Savage series cancelled in '82? Crappy sales. David Anthony Kraft admitted they were given no time to start writing a compelling background.

>'I guess you're letting your anger at She-Hulk blind you from making a coherent argument.'

Whatevs. How long will the "Hulk" series starring the She Hulk last? Six issues? 12? La Walters just isn't striking gold.

comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-07.html

Hey, I'm hoping that "Hulk" series dies a quick death too but I'm not dumb enough to claim that She-Hulk never had a series that lasted longer that 12 issues.

Man her savage series was so so bad. It was just aping the Hulk so much but missed out on what made him interesting enough to have a TV show made. Her supporting cast in that was utter garbage and villains were even worse. Can't expect your comic to sell when everything around you is shit and you yourself aren't really that interesting. Hope that Hulk series with her isn't a retread of Savage.