Why is Captain America always such a dick to Frank...

I had to look again to make sure that Steve wasn't spreading his hate paste all over Frank

So in other words, Steve is a huge dick who has no sense of empathy?

Everyone's a dick to Frank.

Frank was pretty much born to suffer.

>cut off his head and sent it to his brother
There's no justification for that shit. He's a psycho.

>There's no justification for that shit

It presumably works. That's all the justification you really need.

I'd hug Frank.

And maybe cuddle with him a little, too.

Hypocrisy. Top tier capes hang out with the likes of butcher Wolverine, y'know, the guy whose main method of fighting is chopping people up, and maniac Deadpool but because Punisher does what is in his means to accomplish the same goals he's a maniac. How many Nazis did Cap kill during WW2? He didn't send them to magical super-prisons.

I'm not defending Punisher. Punisher is a madman. Everyone else just acts high and mighty because they can lift cars and shoot lasers and the color saturation of their outfits.

Punisher is making shit worse for Cap's arguement/ It's not that he has no empathy, it's that Frank IS a fucking psycho. He killed Diamondback and Goldbug who if I recall correctly hadn't committed any murders or anything super fucked up like that.

But would you Frank his Frank

>it works
Well that's good to know. I'm glad to hear crime in the Marvel universe will be gone very soon thanks to Frank Castle.

Would you frank him?

yeah, when you decide you have the judgement and authority to decide who lives and who dies despite what everyone else says, that's called being a psychopath.

... in other words, they are the products of VERY different environments:
The world that Cap knew wasn't pretty, but it was still a world with clear moral lines between good and evil, right and wrong.
He gives speeches on that crap all the time.
Frank's world sure as hell wasn't as clear about what should be done, what shouldn't, what's a crime, what's amoral, what right and wrong really are.
But who the evil people are was always clear.

Empathy doesn't play into it, it's about JUSTICE.
And that's supposed to be impassionate and without emotion.

I'd let Frank Frank the Frank out of me, Frankly.

t. unabashed Frankophile

Because of sliding timescale I'd have to imagine he's only been at it a handful years in Marvel-time. The completion of his goal is infinitely far away, in a few more months of Marvel-time. If they don't reboot (hard or soft) again before that.

>Killing criminals who will immediately be replaced by more violent criminals who are trying to remake a power structure
Yeah, that's neither efficient nor a solution. and Frank plainly admits this multiple times, he solves absolutely no problems by what he does, he just wants to punish

>Steve is a huge dick who has no sense of empathy
you misspelled Frank

I bet you think you sounded real cool and convincing with that post didn't you?

Is this the Frank thread?

They do it to piss off Ennis

That's not muh Frank.

It is now.

Why does this shit bring out character vs character shit?

I was a bigger fan of the Punisher loooooong before I ever read Civil War or anything with Captain America in it, and Captain America is totally in the right. Frank IS a fucking psycho and in the wrong. That doesn't mean you can't love both characters. Think for two fucking seconds people.

Do you honestly believe Frank could actually be successful? If you do you're an idiot. Even in modern societies with institutional forms of brutal punishment like Frank does there is still crime but with the added bonus of horrific torure and pointless murder.

Some thread had to be.
This one was just in the wrong city park on the wrong day...

why can't they get beers together, discuss the ramifications of PTSD, ponder about the causes for poverty and rampant crime, reflect on their respective lost families and joke about how they both go by stupid showboating nicknames when they're both just military brats who wanted to do good for their country

Frank had just killed some random guy in Percival Punder's outfit without even checking to see who it was, and this is the main thing wrong with him, he's sloppy.
Yeah, for the most part its swept under the rug how many innocent people he kills (Lets be real, it'll usually take a few weeks of observation to catch someone doing something he finds Frankworthy) and just kills based off of his own bias.
Frank is a murderer, simple as that

also, Frank is himself one of the leading causes of murder.

Of course, you're perfectly in your rights to love both characters...
But those characters are both uncompromising by their nature, so when their philosophies differ it doesn't matter how awesome they both are: they will conflict.
It's not because someone in an office is pushing a Civil War, Steve and Frank would have never have been friends.
If they were they wouldn't be who they are.

I was being facetious. I don't think that vigilantes do any good whether they're a Frank or not. Crime can't be solved by force in real life and in comics superheros are uniformly empirically proven to be ineffective.

Chill out Joss Whedon. The Marvel universe has a bizzarely strong mafia problem, killing and robbing good, decent folks of color.

While the Avengers are too busy destroying other words and metting boring OCs, teen heroes and womyn are busy leading quirky lifes and meeting non threatening C list villains in non violent encounters, while the Inhumans and X-men wank their own, someone has to do actual crook fighting, and Frank is the right man to do it.

I meant between fans, I love seeing them fight in the comics because that's exactly what should happen between them.

The reason he has not killed at least dozens of innocent people over the years is the same reason he can walk off any injury with nothing but a thought caption explaining his indomitable will because certain writers love to suck his cock.

Frank is the one without empathy and Steve has a problem with that.

That said Steve has been nice to him but Frank always crosses that line to being a complete utter asshole and trigger happy cunt even if it isn't directed at Steve.

thats true. I had no idea there were 20,000 made men in the Italian Mob in one city until Frank Franked all of them.
I'm so glad his books are realistic, unlike Batman

The people who are hardest on Punisher are the people who feel bad for him and wish he could get his life together. If they didn't care about him, he'd be no real skin off their backs since all he does is run around killing third rate crime peons. He takes great care not to endanger the public and it's not like he's disrupting the status quo, no matter how many hundreds of goons he kills.

It's people like Daredevil and Cap, who see someone with a strong sense of justice, who faced a horrible tragedy, and is now completely out of control (to an extent) because of it who get upset. Because they want to help, they see the good he's capable of, but his permanent murder boner frustrates them. And in the case of Daredevil in particular, he fears what Frank represents: That he might one day lose control too and just become a death dealing murder ninja. Well, again.

Compare that to say, Red Hulk, who doesn't give a shit, and didn't really care what Frank did when they were on the same team as long as he followed orders

How would Frank respond to the recent events in Civil War II? Would Ulysses just send him into an all out murderfest? Or would Frank not buy into that?

...

This "Frank is a soulless jerk with no empathy" meme needs to end.

Wow! Why is Frank so handsome??

Frank Castle has Super Math which allows him to avoid hitting civilians.

1. Frank aint showing empathy
2. do you seriously think Captain America has no empathy?

Because Marco Checcetto, that's why. Man, I love the Rucka/Checcetto/DiGiamenico run.

What the fuck is Monica and Vision doing there?

When is Frank ever not handsome?

Ok this is unacceptable! Look at Frank's shotgun, pistol, sniper rifle thing. Not only is it badly drawn it takes me out of the moment of reading the book to wonder if the artist has ever seen a gun even in passing

Cap is a true american hero that believes in what the country was founded on, like the constitution and all that. People deserving due process and freedom.

Punisher is an alt-right hero that thinks he knows better and that might makes right, which is also not a surprise he is so popular online between the target audience of that political group.

He has lunch with the kid afterward.

This is Cred Forums, user. People here fight over cartoons about space lesbians.
Did you really expect that to stop when there's more important characters involved?

You're confusing the alt-right and paleocons, two very different groups.

No really so thinks that is a gun there in the third panel?

That's Ultimate Frank, not 616 Frank. Ultimate Frank is a complete irredeemable psychopath. 616 Frank at least has some positive qualities behind all the murder.

>why is a ww2 vet such a dick to the personifaction of the "what did you say to me, you little bitch" pasta
Gee i dunno

Steve was in the Army, though. Can officers pull rank on people if they're in a different branch?

Does normal crime even happen in Metropolis anymore? The only stuff that happens there is super crime. Unless Lex underpays his workers or something.

Suicide Slum.

Yes there are whole charts to figure out who outranks who at any given moment. I belive you are expected to more polite tho if you order someone from a different branch. And of cource there are lots of petty fued and rivalries between various military groups.

Maybe it's a harpoon gun?

Frank pretty much represents the worst a soldier can become without directly harming innocent people; a remorseless killing-machine without moral fetters regarding his enemies, or an off switch. It's no wonder why an archetypal 'good soldier' would find him repulsive. It could be possible that they've faced their on inner Punisher at some point, or continue to struggle with it.

Steve and Frank should interact more often.

Neither one of them is in active service, but yes.

I rather dislike some of the frankwank the Punisher gets, but I do need to read me some proper Punisher one of these days. Some of the small bits I've read look promising.

>Cred Forums
>Discussing the Punisher
Better get the popcorn, as idiots still act confused about why a fictional man who is 99% scar tissue is still running around.

>Why can't he just accept that Frank's life is a never-ending warzone with necessary casualties.

pretty accurate

It's really weird that Deadpool is around but Wolverines mass murder usually is only directed at evil cults of zombie ninjas

Nearly every Punisher arc ever can be summed up like this:

>Bad guys
>Frank sees bad guys do bad
>Bad guys fuck with Frank
>"He's only one guy!"
>Frank intensifies
>Double-kill!
>Triple!
>Monster!
>Frank team has the lead!
>"B-but that's impossible! He's just one guy!"
>Frank'd
>Repeat

Despite that, Garth Ennis' runs (Welcome Back Frank, Punisher Marvel Knights, Punisher MAX) are definitely worth it. Ennis gets Punisher on a fundamental level, I'd love to see him write a Punisher/The Boys crossover some day.

Can Cap give him orders? Idk shit about the army so this is a honest ignorant question.

Not sure how interbranch hierarchy works but pretty sure Cap outranks him.

I need to get this run.

I kind of wish Solid Frank was his default look, either that or Dillon's Frank-face are perfect looks for the character.

I also wish that he gets a daughteru who lives past the age of 12

Frank was a Captain in the Marine Corps and the rank of Captain in both branches are on the same pay grade etc.

It's not that.

It's the damn MONOLOGUE-ING.

Frank is a hero because he actually get rids of villains.

trying to piss off ennis by writing a superhero comic doesn't seem like a very effective plan

>How many Nazis did Cap kill during WW2?
What is war?

This is a war on crime. :^)

The Punisher is a psychotic serial killer, user.

>personifaction of the "what did you say to me, you little bitch" pasta

Fucking hell, neither are in active military service, and thus have NO rank whatsoever currently to call upon.

Punisher fags really are just underdeveloped morons. Punisher's way of thought is why 3rd world countries are shit holes.

If one invincible guy actually killed more than 20.000 mafia members by himself there'd probably be no mafia left.
Why even bother?

Putting Punisher into the main Marvel continuity was a mistake.

because frank is a no good quiter who fled from his patriotic duty in vietnam and so deserved to have his family machine gunned by the mafia.

hail hydra

Why doesn't he just take over the Maggia and turn it into an army of people to kill criminals?

I like the TV and movie Franks better than comic Franks, because the live-action ones are written far more sympathetic and far less batshit crazy.

He is just a dude. Even a c-lister bad guy should be able to put him out of existence.

but he doesn't. villains appear out of the void and he executes them before ore villains appear from the void. he never once got rid of shit

Pretty sure Steve was an 'honorary' Captain (you know, to fit the name) but had command authority commensurate with a General, or some such special snowflake arrangement.

At least, I remember that being how it was a few decades back.

How do you make a character whose powers are guns into a good guy?
I mean you have to realize that when your only rule is not kill and the guy uses guns there is a problem with YoU logic
I mean arrow dude is already pushing it

Because Franks war on crime is a pretense for his love of silence and killing. His family diwig was an excuse to fully commit to being the monster he molded himself into in Vietnam.

He isn't just a dude, he's a product. Why are comic books fans so thorough about this topic? Only on Cred Forums you would see someone seriously ask " why doesn't The Punisher hit civilians?" Or "how come he survives a shootout with an army?" Is their a fear of not being taken seriously? If so it's okay to know that The Punisher shouldn't be, he's schlock entertainment at his core.

> Singapore
> One of the lowest crime in the world

Well memed.

Irreconcilable differences in ethics.

> Punisher kill Joker
> The Clown, a new villain, appear next day
> Somehow his fault

Are you the uncle from Jackie Chan? There actually isn't a karma balance who demands new villains when you kill the previously one. New villains can rise but it's completely unconnected (unless they are avenging the villain for some reason).

WHAT A THRILL

Third worlder here, fuck you, presumptuous smug college boy, our problem is white collar crime, political centralization and lack of education. Things are not different here, we're just not sitting on accumulared wealth and gigantic federal money pits.

He'd probably think it was some bullshit.
Fuck off DaCosta

Governments do it all the time.

I think there's a problem in which people project the morality present in Punisher comics onto the reader, it's really weird.

>It works.
Dude, if that shit worked, the only cartel left would the most ruthless one, since it would have presumably scared everyone out of the business. Too bad it doesn't work that way, people get into crime because they're fucking poor, and there are a lot of cartels.

Tired of people saying Frank's way works when they have no concept of why crime exists. NO superhero method is effective against crime, that's why they don't exist in real life dude.

It's weird. Whats also weird is that 90% of the time, it's coming from a massive batfag. They have a weird hateboner for the character.

>How do you make a character whose powers are guns into a good guy?

By giving him a baby. The Punisher has done more for kids than Captain America ever has.

> villains appear out of the void

Just like the rogues of every hero, the only difference is Batman and Spider-man never get rid of their rogues, their gallery just keeps growing.

Punished Frank was hot as fuck.

I think that it's unfair, it's just trying to portray Steve as someone better than what he is. Superman and Batman could act in that way woth Frank, but while steve should have problems with him, he is a soldier, worst of all he is an american soldier that doesnt like to kill but does it anyway.Steve isnt a cunt or hypocrite, it's just writers pretending Steve is a saint, Cap is inspirational, but he isnt always right and he doesnt have a perfect moral. Take him away from the Marvel universe and he isnt different in morals than aquaman or captain atom, sure he is a saint in wildstorm, but even in the marvel universe he isnt perfect, Marvel just tries to turn him into their Superman when even Superman isnt right. It's a dumb executive mandate.

>mfw someone says heroes aren't supposed to kill
I think the primary problem a lit on Cred Forums have with The Punisher is that they don't get the works that led his birth. The Frank doesn't really draw from the same pool of the fantastic ,like the rest of the people who run about 616.

Ideally Frank should go against people who are way above normal crime, corporate schemes, political agendas and international conspiracies buying their way into the government and destroying thousands of lifes, but that is even more morally grey.

Would Frank kill the CIA people training and arming terrorist militias the government is portraying as "moderate rebels", knowing there is no hope of truly revealing the truth? Even if it's indirectly helping a dictator?

Would he kill a celebrity or diplomat that got away with murder and challenge the justice system head on?

>I think the primary problem a lit on Cred Forums have with The Punisher
Is that we're hyper sensitive and any type of violence or adult theme is considered hottopic edgy trash for kids. Everything should be lighthearted and colorful and full of waifus and fetishes.

>I hate Punisher he kills and killing is wrong

Listen people hyper competence is just a thing you need to learn to suspend your disbelief with around comics.

I really need to spell check, I'm sorry I had to make someone decipher that.

Not with a shitty edgy stupid character like punisher that we're supposed to take seriously. Just read batman if you want a good take on a character like that.

This I really enjoy the Spider-man and Deadpool mini, but it is kinda weird how Peter doesn't find him as appalling as he does Frank.

>Just read batman if you want a good take on a character like that.

I dont have a pic smug enough for this one.

You mean Vigilante. The Punisher is primarily straight laced action, Vigilante explores the complexity and ramifications of being a Vigilante.

kek

Because Snake is handsome.

It's because so many suck Ennis' cock on his Punisher run, who presents Frank as an unstable psycho.

This post summarizes it quite good.

On the other hand, god knows some people really need to just fucking die already, prisons are filled with scum all around the world.

I think he tried doing something like that in Ostrander's run.

The thing is, most superheroes fight crime. As in, they stop crime happening. They make citizen's arrests. Frank doesn't fight crime. He murders criminals. That's his goal. He doesn't fight crime and sometimes, unavoidably, need to use lethal force. He specifically sets out with the goal of killing people.
That's the difference. Most superheroes are good Samaritans. Frank is a vigilante serial killer.

>Empathy doesn't play into it, it's about JUSTICE.

No it isn't. It's about punishment. it's right in the guy's name, for Chrissake.

Frank doesn't care about justice. He just wants to kill people, and only a few tattered shreds of ego allow him to direct that desire towards villains instead of any random guy on the street.

Heroes can kill. Cap kills. The thing is that I always expect superheroes to use the minimum amount of force necessary to take down a bad guy, and having taken down the bad guy, they then leave/escort said bad guy to the cops so that the justice system can deal with them. They are supposed to be idealized cops, basically, who resort to lethal force only when necessary.

Frank doesn't do that. The Punisher has appointed himself judge, jury, and executioner. He skips straight to using lethal force. The Punisher basically the worst real-life cops that we have right now, the ones who see a black man and draw their gun and fire. Only in Frank's case replace "black man" with "drug pusher".

>Using John McClane as a justification for Frank Castle

It's perhaps important to remember that McClane was trapped in a building with no support, no guns, and no shoes at the start of Die Hard, along with proven psychopathic murderers, with dozens of hostages on the line whom said murderers were planning on killing no matter what. McClane used the minimum force necessary to take down each guy, it's just that in that scenario "minimum force" was lethal force.

Frank Castle is not in remotely the same situation.

>Only in Frank's case replace "black man" with "drug pusher".

Or "jaywalker", for that matter. I remember when Punisher first premiered as a Spider-Man villain, even if most people don't.

...

That explained as a case of being drugged in his first mini. Also he evolved past being a villain right there in his first appearance in Spider-Man.

The reason cap hates him is because he is one bad day from becoming frank himself

Is there any more of this?

Steve wasn't actually a captain though, it's an honorary title.

Take a look at Punisher: Born

It's something else

Give me a valid reason why the Punisher should offend me?

He kills people.

I would honestly love a shot writing punisher with a mid-life crisis.

Yeah, he kills badguys. Yeah he's good at it.

But Frank always struck me as a guy that wasn't really planning to survive very long. I mean -- his life is risky and self-destructive. He probably figured that his suicidal lifestyle would eventually get himself killed -- but for some reason he's still kicking around, with only dead mobsters to keep him going.

So what happens when one day he turns around, looks at himself, and realizes he's not dead yet?

At a certain point, that's just not going to be enough. I don't care how wounded, or crazy you are -- after a decade or two just plugging away at mobsters, and having it be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel, you're going to get bored, or tired, start to question your course, or maybe just take a fucking break to play golf or something -- fuck.
I mean -- I'm operating under the idea that even a monotonous one-note person, leading a monotonous one-note life, will eventually -- given years of time to think, will eventually give in to some level of self-reflection.

bad people, though

That's essentially Aaron's Max. It ends with him wondering if it will someday mean something.

Same reason WWII vets disdain all Vietnam vets.

They're huge pussies.

People nonetheless, you alt-right Cred Forums tard. He's no better than the villains.

fuck, captain merica is such an unlikable fuck

>implying that killing is always wrong

When he was on Thunderbolts he was a a beast, when he works on a team he works well.

Him and Electra went well together.

This has been a huge discord in Cred Forums, I mean no one talks shit when Gandalf wipes out an entire species of orc in battle when all they are doing is defending their homeland but one rapist get shot in the streets and every one get all uppity.

Orcs don't exist. People do.

Ok.

>implying that killing people is always wrong

It is, you animal.

I think you'd have a change of heart if you were ever put into a position where you had to fight to survive.

MAX Frank is a psycho.

616 Frank is a hero

>There actually isn't a karma balance who demands new villains when you kill the previously one. New villains can rise but it's completely unconnected

You don't know SHIT about Gotham City, son.

The people Frank shots might as well be orcs. People speak as if the Punisher kills living human beings. It must be good storytelling to get people this riled up.

Ultimate Frank makes MAX Frank look like a saint. I didn't know Frank could get any crazier and meaner unail he showed up.

What issues is this?
i need to read it or buy it
is it in trades?

616 Frank before Ennis? sure. today? absolutely not

but he doesn't have hyper-competence. in Civil War, he literally murdered some no-name who was tricked into wearing Plunderer's costume.

Poor frank just wants to be loved by his hero

ehh, they get rid of rogues now and then

My point is, Frank ahs never solved a damned problem in his life and never will. his methods are no more effective then any other hero's.
No one is afraid of him. no one decides not to do crime because of him

Tolkien specifically said that Orcs were meant/designed to be completely irredeemably evil and corrupted as far as the setting goes.

They're not a race of people anymore.

Also remember, that LotR was written in the 1930's and is full of wacky aristocratic ideology and hints of racism.

Tolkiens idyllic English 'village green' shire is his idea of a perfect society.

Racially homogenous - clannish - british as hell - agrarian - and with clearly defined class division between servants and landed gentry.

Rubber bullets?

Tranqs?

Non lethal shots?

>alt-right
What happened to just saying right wing facist? Personally I read a Punisher comic, and sleep Luka baby. Never got why the character gets people riled up outside of the occasional Frankwank. Okay he kilks, so what?

Rucka's Solid Frank was fantastic in my opinion. I really liked Rachel, I liked the whole direction of the arc and everything.

Unfortunately, the Punisher isn't allowed to grow or feel. He's a one note character who is defined solely by that trait and any deviation will be roundly criticized by his fans.

what's he gonna grow? change what guns he uses?

>Why can't he just accept that Frank's life is a never-ending warzone with necessary casualties
no its not, he choose to do this shit

he could have learned to cope with it and live his life again but no he decided to frank them all for the franks

Exactly, Frank isn't the kind of character that requires character development. He's knight in rusty armour that solves the problem at hand, very similar to those pulp paperback action adventure yarns. If you pick up a Punisher comic expected Frank to have this massive change, them you're making a mistake.

I think they should follow the Conan formula.

Almost all his stories focus on his early or middle career.

There's a place, somewhere in the future where it's different, where it ends...

but that's another story for another time.

Yeah, eventually Conan conquers Aquilonia and bear a jeweled crown upon a troubled brow. Once in a while you'll see a story set at the end of his life...

But in most of the stories he's the same old Conan everyone knows.

I'd like to see some more future timeline punisher stories.

What happens to old man Frank?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The very idea is so foreign to you that it's inconceivable.

Have you read The Punisher: The End yet, bro beans?

I have not. Will look into it.

>What happens to old man Frank?
He keeps on Franking. Conan had the benefit of changing careers.The only career change Frank made was moving from a coerced assassin to a full time Vigilante. I would love a MAX series set in the 80s and 90s. Frank running around New York in current year is hard to believe given all the cameras.

I'm still waiting on that new punishes series by ennis. Hopefully with the punisher being popular again we get the good stuff.

I'm a little tongue in cheek, i'm open to hearing about it. I just think the best Punisher stories have an element of no feeling just killing.

Pitch your profound idea of character development. I bet involves him killing an innocent and becoming a priest. I know where to go for character development, and it generally isn't in the pages of a Punisher comic.

>Thor gives Frank the hard truth
>Acknowledges what Frank is
>Still treats him as a person rather than a disgusting monster
>Even tries to get Frank off the path in his own way
Why is Thor such a bro?

I don't think it's profound by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just tired of the senseless killing. That's boring at this point.

I'd have had him run off with Rachel as a twisted Bonnie and Clyde of vengeance. Seeing how two lonely souls make each other feel. I'd have set it in Mexico and have them go to town on the cartels. They're real monsters; they torture and murder women and children without thought just to send a message. Do a sugar skull motif for a cover. I just want to see what makes him tick; vengeance is hollow and numbing, I'd be interested in seeing him feel again. Like a man who forgot how hungry he is and blue he's starving. It's not a love story, it's just a story about two twisted people trying to find sense in a fucked up world. She'd probably leave him in the end and he'd be bitter cold, like Bond at the end of Casino Royale.

I don't care if it's trite, it's just a thought I came up with on the spot. Plus I really like the idea of him in Mexico.

They already did el hombre epunisha.

thrue guardian of midgar
Doesn't just protect people, but encourage and inspire them to protect eachother and themselves

there was this comic hero call "el pantera" (the panther) who was like a lower lever punisher that operated in the streets of Mexico City

Damn, a day late and a dollar short.

Can we pretend they never happened?

Do what ever you want. Comics recycle plots all the time.

This entire thread is essentially people forgetting and remembering what they want about The Punisher, so go ahead.

Redhood is technically a good guy

You know with how many heroes kill one another you'd have to ask yourself why they give a fuck about what Frank does.

Give him bad guys that deserve to be shot like dogs, and have not use said guns if they don't.

I don't get why Frank is always shown to idolize Cap. He's every lie that Uncle Sam pushes on idiot 18 year olds who join the military.

That war is clean with black and white morality. That you can destroy evil without becoming evil yourself. Hell Cap wasn't even around long enough to witness his "Greatest Generation" nuke two cities to kingdom come.

>Hurr we need a trial to prove Pablo Escobar deserves to die

How much trust would you have in the justice system if crime lords like that skinned your family alive and left them hanging on a lamp post?

So I suppose you're answer is to shut down all law enforcement sting operations and just let drug and human trafficking just remain in whoever currently is in control right?

After all, it's all futile right? No point in doing anything right?

Did somebody say rubber bullets?!

>I'm tired of senseless killing
>But I want Frank to senselessly kill Mexican cartels with his waifu

I really wished I could enjoy this run.

Yes, and?

>I would love a MAX series set in the 80s and 90s.

Maybe we could see why the MAX versions of Frank and Micro had a falling out. Or the relationship between him and Jigsaw, since it's pretty clear that they knew each other prior to Girls in White Dresses.

Possible guest appearance by S.H.I.E.L.D.-era Nick Fury, before the organization became the joke it was depicted as being in Fury MAX.

>Would he kill a celebrity or diplomat that got away with murder and challenge the justice system head on?
I'd actually really like to see a story where something like this happens. The fallout of Frank Franking some really high-profile scumbag instead of the usual low-level goons would be interesting as fuck to read about.

Because he knows that Frank can be better and he's disappointed

The keywords being in his eyes.
I worked with a man convinced that satellites studied his innards and tried to put chemical agents into his pores; and that the spirit of his long-dead high-school teacher lived in his coworker heads (no jokes). I'm sure he would have been perfectly justified into killing all of us, in his eyes, because we were robots hell-bent on his destruction, but that doesn't make him any less of a fucking psycho, on the contrary.

I... Ok, you win.

Not really, chain of command exists to prevent that, and mission prevail over rank.
For example, if your Lt orders you to guard that door and stop anyone trying to go through, a general from another branch can't give you a countermand directly. It must follow the official channels (in theory, at least).

Have they ever figured out how Frank deals with undercover cops and informants?

They hand wave such notions. The Warzone movie went with that plot point, and it really didn't play out well.

>> Somehow his fault
It kind of is. Part of a war is needing to have an exit strategy. If you just cut off the head of the enemy forces with no sufficient plan afterward you end up creating a power vacuum that's even more destabilizing and likely to get innocent civilians killed.

We're living proof of that right now.

If Frank wanted to promote actual change instead of just satisfy his vengeance boner he'd be punishing white collar criminals that have their fingers in and or create many of the conditions that cause most of that crime to begin with.

Yeah, near Batman he only shoots kneecaps.

>Part of a war is needing to have an exit strategy.
Come now. Frank is an AMERICAN.

I doubt Wilson Fisk is going to greet him as a liberator.

Frank is a Russian born in America by accident.

Cap's a representation of an ideal America; exactly the kind Frank hopes to create by eliminating crime. He's the last remnant of the American dream that Frank never got to live out.

>So I suppose you're answer is to shut down all law enforcement sting operations and just let drug and human trafficking just remain in whoever currently is in control right?
no, there is a difference between wanting rule of law and wanting some random asshole to take it upon himself to murder people he suspects of crimes
>After all, it's all futile right? No point in doing anything right?
your not big on reading comprehension, are ya?

Bullshit. Cap is brainwashed by patriotic propaganda. Frank is a damaged marine who just can't stop waging war.

> If you just cut off the head of the enemy forces with no sufficient plan afterward you end up creating a power vacuum that's even more destabilizing and likely to get innocent civilians killed.
> I think criminal organizations work as countries

Lolno. Cutting the head of a criminal organization usually make it split, collapse or reorganize. It doesn't become stronger by losing.

> Killing criminals who will immediately be replaced by more violent criminals who are trying to remake a power structure

Literally doesn't happen if you do it right.

>his methods are no more effective then any other hero's.

His villains don't break out of jail when he gets done with them.
Punisher is too weak to kill super bad guys so more powerful people should become like the Punisher.

I'm more annoyed from the sir sandwich coming from an alleged marine.

I heard that shit is a recent change. Vietnam he's still do sir sandwiches

The post you are responding to opens with the sentence; "... in other words, they are the products of VERY different environments:"

You called that "Bullshit." AND THEN posted how Cap was brainwashed by propaganda and Frank was all 'Nam PTSD.
Do you see where you are being inconsistent here?

Interestingly enough, though, that the landed Lord of a prominent family want the hero, but the humble gardener was.

Well, Thor is the prime example of masculinity of a warrior culture which encouraged personal strength, hospitality and joy.

Plus, isn't being a great warrior one of the ways Vikings earned their way into Asgard (Viking Heaven)???
From Thor's perspective Frank's like a Viking saint.

Yeah. It was a thing, Frank going insane and killing innocents. Later retconned into Jigsaw drugging his food when he wasn't looking.

Nah. The Asgardians didn't really share the Viking values. They're bigger on honor, a straight fight, things like that. Frank constantly battles people who are beneath him, uses stealth tactics, poisons people, and is just overall dishonorabru.

To Thor, he's more like... His heart's in the right place, but he's too much of a bastard to really shine like he should.

Easy. He only kills when he needs to, not as a hobby. The rest of the time he punches dudes like everyone else.

Cap is a shining beacon of hope that punches Hitler in the face and saves the Democracy just in time to enjoy his apple pie. Punisher hangs slave traficckers by their entrails. They are from two completly diferent worlds.

>Tolkien specifically said that Orcs were meant/designed to be completely irredeemably evil and corrupted as far as the setting goes.

He also said the dwarfs where jews and, the orcs are basically just pow driven mad by torture. That isn't irredeemably evil that's tragic.

It's even worse when you realize Cap is Frank's hero. Imagine the one person in the world you look up to, kicking down your door of ideology and slapping your shit up.

Because Thor is fucking Norse. The Vikings were bad motherfuckers who didn't worship anything that couldn't kick ass.

The only real complaint that Thor has from the Norse point of view about Frank is that Frank doesn't fucking ENJOY the war he's fighting.

I really do love the Captain America and Punisher dynamic. Cap is like an older father figure who's constantly disappointed in his boy, but loves him so much he wants to see him on the right path. His boy's ideology just doesn't fit his, so they're constantly at conflict, even though both respect the hell out of one another.

No it's not. Psychopaths just have little or no empathy and a predilection toward violence. They don't accept authority, and it's hard to believe you yourself have any authority when you don't believe in it in the first place.

Remember the time Frank offered to tie a leather strap around Cap's balls?

>this triggers the libcuck

Then they are not real fans,are they?

>little or no empathy and a predilection toward violence
AKA the Punisher

>all white men are evil greedy rapists

>all coloreds are just results of the rigged system, they obviously couldnt use their brains for anything other than "dindu nuffin'"

There's a difference between the character growing and changing the character completely, obviously people wont like it if the "growth" doesn't make sense for the established character. also Rachel was copied straight from Ennis' MAX run, so I don't give Rucka credit on that.

Rachel and whatsherfuck the mercenary slut that Frank knocked up have two totally different personalities.

Better than Frank.

>red head
>She-Punisher
>murders
>sluts for frank cock
>ex military

is your point one has a sense of humor? I mean ill give you that their personalities are different but beyond that they're the same fucking character dude.

Frank has plenty of empathy, just not for the people being Franked.

The personality's what separates them. If we're gonna go off and say that every character with similarities is the same, we're gonna run out of original characters pretty damn quickly.

yeah if you talk about say, spider-man and kaine or some shit, but these two are exactly the same down to a T except their personalities

and if personalities makes a character different then every time the writer changes on a book that must be a new character for you.

Can I start with Daredevil and Cyclops?
They are both fit white guys with redish-brown hair and wear red sunglasses even at night.

Sometimes might as well be.

>His villains don't break out of jail when he gets done with them.
who is Jigsaw?

One's a blind ninja lawyer and the other's a tranny mind-control victim.
I'm not seeing it.

Ah yes, the one Batman villain that Marvel thought up first.

Frank doesn't do it right, though.

I'm getting so fucking tired of coming on this board now, I don't know if it's/tv/ or what but every thread on a specific character always devolves into a argument about how's he's a good hero because he kills or because he doesn't, and the rest is just movie shitposting, why can't you fuckers just enjoy a character

At this point I think Jigsaw just has some kind of secret resurrection ability, maybe left over from that first time Frank killed him and he was brought back by Belasco and Not Jim Jones.

I honestly really liked the way Frank was portrayed in the Rucka run. He seemed more like a severely damaged ex-marine than a ruthless executioner.

Please don't tell me you consider the Punisher to be deep or mature in any way, shape or form.

It's wish fufillment.

All cape-comics are. These stories are dreamscape metaphor of worldly concepts. That's what makes them so amazing.

Swap Frank with Ghost Rider.
What changes?

Because you don't bring the war home.

So.... Five percent?

The war on crime is everywhere.

I honestly still don't fucking get how Captain America views Frank as a Cletus Kasady-tier psycho while he treats Wolverine as if he's nearly a saint.

Both have killed. Both aren't generally nice people. What the fuck is the difference? Is it because Frank is a Knight Templar?

Sounds like Batman. Inly he doesn't bother with the replacement.

That doesn't seem like a very stable way to ride a jetski.

Wolverine doesnt kill people for jaywalking and littering.

Frank was heavily drugged when he did that.

It's hubris and ethnocentricisim to judge people from other cultures and times by your own contemporary standards.

Tolkien, by the standards of time was very progressive.

What's up with these janky costumes?

Didn't they have a bit of this in the Ennis Nick Fury run?

And he franked some generals and CIA assets in punisher max, but they din't cover enough of the fallout I think.

First, you need stronger enemies. Satan's mafia. Done.

Second is a massive increase in sales of high end carpeting, because he leaves flaming tire tracks in people's houses.

Frank Castle following the coke trail, to florida, to Columbia in the 1980s. Guest starring nick fury, Black Widow, Barracuda and the fucking CIA..

Because Cap knows war just as well as Frank, and he didn't let it turn him into a vicious, mutilating, murdering psychopath. Do you think Vietnam (or the Gulf War for more recent Castle) was worse than WW2 re: burning bodies, mutilating, chemical agents, shrapnel, napalm, entire cities of civilians being slaughtered like animals?

>Punisher
>generally nice

The fuck are you on about? Also Wolverine at the very least tries to be better and not kill people, Frank shows no remorse nor regret and straight up kills people for doing nothing. Fuck, the page before the OP pic has Frank killing two villains that not only meant no harm, but were actively trying TO HELP THEM. Wolverine wouldn't pull anything like that until they tried to betray them or something like that.

He didn't need to see the nukes to know the death of cities under torch and shell.

That's just Medic.

>he treats common people and kids with common decency
>he's a saint! a saaaaaaint!!!!
That's what you call moral easy mode, motherfucker.

Because Frank's a damn lunatic.

wew

Is that you Joss Whedon?

When the fuck did I call him a saint?

>How many Nazis did Cap kill during WW2?

Canonically? He never killed during WWII, at least that was the retcon that made me drop Marvel for a while. Picked it back up but haven't really red Cap since. Can't remember how long ago that was so it could have been retconned back to him having a WWII kill count again for all I know.

Isn't Frank one of the few characters not really affected by the sliding time scale due to every writer wanting him to stay as a Vietnam vet?

Solid Frank: Cap, I'm already a demon...

I think they subtly retconned him into a Gulf War vet for the last series. It'll probably be Iraq next.

Which run? Because in MAX he's not so bad. Well, bad for the evil fuckers he runs into, maybe.

Please, if anything it'd be Cred Forumsfags that hate frank, quit false flagging.

Cap is a fucking asshole, who thinks that his ultra-patriotic early 20th century attitude can be applied to everyone.

That gun looks like a movie prop they took a picture of and then drew Frank around.

Wasn't there a run were Frank killed some criminals that had their kids in the house with them, I think the kids were also the subject of some kind of abuse but I can't remember, and while Frank didn't do anything to them said he'll most likely have to deal with them when they became adults?

Yep, the parent were using the children to film CP. The worst thing about the MAX stories is that shit like that happens every day, and there isn't a Frank to do anything about it.

Agreed.

...

Wolverine chips up mutants, which aren't people, so it's okay.

>can't take The Punisher seriously
>can take Batman seriously

I GIVE MY LIIIIiiiiIIIIVE NOT FOR HONOUR BUT FOOOOHOOOORRR YOOOOOUUUUUUUUUU~

FRAAHAANCK CAAAASSSTLE~

IIIIIIIII"MMMMM STIIIIIILLLLL IIIIIINNN AAAAA DREEEEAAAAAAAAM FRAAAAAHAAAANCK CAAAAHAAASTLE.

I want to see Frank accidentally get teleported to at least one of the other Nine Realms and start trying to kill any criminal he comes across there, even if whatever the thing the target did is not considered a crime in that realm.

Fucking Klaus Janson's shitty art.

Was this the best Punisher story?

oh how it feels to hear those words, yes it is my good man.

Doesn't Frank go after white collar criminals, like Wilson Fisk for example, pretty often though?

That was MAX? Haven't read that.

Was it 616 or some elseworld where Frank made a deal with some God for a never ending war during Vietnam?

>Crime can't be solved by force in real life

The fact that the web looks sloppily shooped on makes me think of those fake cumshot pictures. Kind of breaks the dramatic tension.

>That war is clean with black and white morality. That you can destroy evil without becoming evil yourself.
That doesn't sound like Frank to you?

>Frankly it's Frank's world.
keeeek

They did, but that ended up being ignored in Thunderbolts and The Punisher: Nightmare, and it hasn't been addressed since.

It was a MAX comic called Born.

As a point of trivia, the events of it were also brought up in an Earth-616 handbook, so I guess it's canon to both universes.

Context? What is this from?

A trilogy of AU minis called Marvel Universe vs. _____ where a virus is turning people into feral cannibals.

mediafire.com/folder/bwxplyg2qfpek/Marvel_Universe_Vs

But then we wouldn´t have those sweet sweet fights with Daredevik

This, desu

>Cap believes in the system
So Cap is stupid?