Reminder that only 74 people died in the Battle of New York

Reminder that only 74 people died in the Battle of New York.

Not the hundreds implied by the end of the movie, Iron Man 3, Avengers 2, Jessica Jones and Agents of SHIELD and excplitly stated in Daredevil.

No, 74 people died in what was and is still treated as the MCU's 9/11^5. Less than a passenger plane crash.

I'm a MCU fan, but I can't help but feel this is a knee jerk reaction to Man of Steel hate.

Makes that episode of Jessica Jones where that woman was trying to kill her for having superpowers pretty dumb.

Like, sorry your mom died, but that was a 1 in a million chance occurrence. Likely killed by an alien, not the superheroes protecting the city.

And Sokvia had something like 150-170? That time the Avengers spent more time saving people than actually fighting had more deaths? At least switch the numbers around.

Agents of SHIELD is really bad at dropping references, but it makes all the Battle of New York ones seem pretty stupid.

Like, only 74 people died in an alien invasion of one of the most populated cities in the world?

It should be called the Miracle in New York.

Blame the Man of Steel backlash and Marvel and Whedon wanting to upstage DC.

"See, less people die in our movies unlike DC, we're not dark and edgy like them"

Remember Independence Day?
God, what happened to make people such pussies around body counts? I know, Man of Steel, but I think the problem was that the film showed too closely civilians dying. Hell, Wanted even did that in a fucked up way when they crashed the train and you hear the passengers screaming to their death because the main character was trying to kill one guy.

The Avengers was safe to say a higher number because they weren't explicitly showing people die. But now we know that in all future Marvel films, the civilians will be largely safe. No city is going to get blown up or anything (outside fictional ones).

>Remember Independence Day?
Yes, it was shit with Will Smith in it.

MIRACLE?! More than a single digit of people died! Therefore, superheroes were a menace! Those dead are all on the Avengers!

>Mess with one of us and you mess with all of us!

New Yorkers >>>> alien fodder

I just want to say that guys like you are why the Joker has a body count in the tens of thousands now and I hate what you did to comics in the 90s.

Naw, after re-watching the film, it still holds up. At least if felt like humanity could all die out in that film compared to be a-okay in the MCU.

Why did they try and use this as a reason for the Avengers to give themselves to the government? It seems like they did a good job protecting everyone here.

Avengers had a very light tone. It would have been out of place to show people getting fucking killed while the Avengers were joking around having fun.

Note that MoS and BvS tried to be more serious and have consequences and subsequently got brutalized by critics for that exact reason.

Now, the actual number is literally a reaction to the MoS shitposting.

Its a disney film. Theyre hardly going to tell little kids that hundreds or thousands died

i think the hate is because supes never TRY to move the battle in a empty zone, like he use to do in comics...

>Reminder that only 74 people died in the Battle of New York.
Gosh it's almost as if the existence of superheroes kept the body count low. But I know that can't be the case because Superman is the world's greatest superhero and the death toll under his watch was in the mid thousands.

>what happened to make people such pussies around body counts?

>Avengers had a very light tone. It would have been out of place to show people getting fucking killed while the Avengers were joking around having fun.

I don't think anyone would care if the death count was in the few hundreds. Most estimates after the movie came out put the death toll between 200 and 500 people. The problem with 74 people killed is that it is such a low number that the Battle of Manhattan wouldn't register as a statistical outlier for NYC deaths. 74 deaths is only a 65% increase in the average daily death toll for NYC.

Humanity can die in superhero stories but it's irrelevant because it'll always go back to the status quo, be it a movie, or a comic.

Just an idea I'm tossing out there,

What if the Chitauri weren't MEANT to kill?

What if the invasion was just a staged hoax by the Norse Not-God of Mischief? Think about it, he got exactly what he wanted from it didn't he?

He has himself on the throne of Asgard, and the Avengers in his back pocket should he need them against Thanos - by having minimal casualties, he has illustrated that he was a puppet, and that he fought to keep those forces at bay.

IF he's discovered, he has some nice little insurance policies to cash in. "Thanos MADE me do it, I was trying to stop it, I minimised the collateral as best I could, but it wasn't enough.. Those MERE 74 souls are on me."

The desctruction was caused by faceless aliens and not by the heroes carelessly trying to stop them.

I've always felt the problem is that people act like the battle of new york was about extermination rather than subjugation via shock and awe. A high death toll would be counter intuitive to the bad guy's plans.

cant we all just appreciate just how fast and efficient the avengers are? at only 74 deaths they are a miracle, to hate them is to hate all that they work for

go complain when they cause too much, not too little death

Even if the aliens are intentionally trying to keep casualties low, which they weren't considering their opening attack was a gun run down a crowded street and we saw Cap having to stop some of them from using grenades on rounded up civilians, they'd had have to pretty much ignored everyone attacking them, which included the police and national guard, and the three building sized space whales that crashed into buildings would have needed to hit abandoned buildings.

Why are people mad that super heroes saved the day?

because superheros actually doing their job is "bad"

Maybe it was 74 in that observed area
fuck I dunno

You guys always seem to forget that these movies are kids movies.

supposedly it was 74 deaths caused by the avengers accidentally

its also a reference to an avengers issue

well, more like general audiences, since both kids and adults showed up at the theatre, and enjoyed it, despite what some people think

No, you're thinking of MoS. People are mad at The Avengers because of the retroactive lowering of stakes.

That's far more believable, but makes the Avengers look really bad.

74 people killed, mostly by falling debris they couldnt have seen or prevented

against the entire state of new york, 74 (avengers)/ ~200-300 (aliens)/ ~100,000+ (potentially killed by nuke, estimate based on real life hiroshima, possibly 200K if scaled to a bigger warhead)

we are looking at

Ah yes that light tone of watching Loki hold a man down and rip his eye out of his head.

The problem was that Zod wasn't very inclined to do so, though.

Ok but it makes no sense in NYC.

Last week there was a small bomb explosion in a smaller Manhattan neighborhood. No one died but 29 were reported injured and there may have been more that fell under the radar.

29 injured in what's considered a small explosion. 74 dead in a giant alien invasion in one of the most populated cities in the country is kinda bullshit

thank god we have superheros

>and rip his eye out of his head.
Piece by piece with some high tech doohickey, which I assume would be a lot more painful than just having it popped out in one go.

Shit was mental.

Most of the Avengers were fighting in the battle, not saving people

See i think the Avengers get a free pass no matter how high the death toll in New York is for a couple of reasons.

They literally just form the team then and immedialy set up a plan to try and contain the problem to reduce casualties.

Some of its members go out of their way to save people instead of just fighting.

Its an Alien fucking invasion against an enemy they have never seen and know nothing about.

The council was just going to nuke the city and kill everyone.

If they had even 200 fatalities saving New York and the world when the government was ready to just blow the city still makes them look like giant fucking heroes.

Sokovia is another story they tried really hard to evac as many people as they could but ultimately it was a threat Tony one of them created and they told nobody about trying to cover up their problem.

In the end they don't even save the city its completely destroyed and as soon from Civil War the debris kills people on the ground they would have evacuated out of the city

A general light tone does not mean it can't have some dark moments.

Actively trying to save people too, Cap was pretty smart during that moment. Also, is it so unbelievable that a newspaper would run wuth the headline "Hundreds Killed in Battle for New York" instead of "74 killed in Battle of New York"

ITT: OPUS bringing up topics we have already laid to rest.

Death by falling debris wouldn't count against the Avengers unless they had a direct hand in causing it. The three main actions taken that could result in unintentional deaths that the Avengers were responsible for would be the space whale hitting the side of the building when Tony lured it to Hulk, the space whale that crashed when Tony flew inside it, and the space whale that Hulk and Thor brought down that landed in Grand Central Station. That's not an unreasonable number for Avengers-related unintentional casualties, it's just unreasonable for total casualties.

If anything the 177 AoU death toll makes even less sense.

well there is captain america telling the cop to move the guys to the subway, telling the avengers to keep the fighting in the centre of the city and away from the civilians and contain the aliens, personally defending a crowded theater, and generally making a point to keep them the centre of attention and not anybody else

>It would have been out of place to show people getting fucking killed while the Avengers were joking around having fun.
Like Coulson amirite?

maybe they were not counting "death by being shot by evil robot" as avengers related

How is that in any way the same thing? That a singular scene devoted to a named character's death, not innocents being crushed during a monster mash finale.

This was from Civil War.


I mean you can prolly drive a dumpster truck hard enough and fast enough in any direction of NYC and get more than 74 hits/kills.

That city is so dense and with such a high population that 74 is nothing. Hell 7400 is barely like 0.1%
And cmon it had only 6 heroes holding them off. Even with Thor and Hulk and IronMan there should have been enough rampaging aliens on flying scooters that the death toll should be like 10000+

Cap saving the people in the restaurant was legit, but Cap telling the NYPD, who have extensive training for evacuations and active threat environments was stupid. Needing Cap, BW, and Hawkeye to personally evacuate a bus was stupid.

The cops were also better armed than Black Widow.

it would have had a larger body count if it wasnt for those avengers

Yeah movies where curse words like "shit" are allowed and where Star-Lord makes a reference to cum stains on the walls. Totally kids movies.

they are allowed to be a bit lax for stuff since they are PG

but generally its fun for everyone and not just the violent grimdark crowd

Please, user.

unless you are a niche crowd, then watch a niche film like sin city or [/spoiler]watch men[/spoiler] where no thought is spared for younger audiences

Yeah, and now that X-Men Apocalypse was critically panned, don't expect Thanos to be a huge threat.
>Oh my god, Thanos has invaded New York! 15 people just died!
Thanks, WB/Fox

actually, they sid that they delibrately downplayed the deaths in previous movies, otherwise it would be too hard for thanos to top it

they are saving the deaths for the big cheese

I don't understand. You are saying everyone should forget about an alien fucking invasion of Earth? It doesn't matter how many people died. It was a mother fucking alien invasion of Earth.

Yeah, I'm sure the NYC street beaters know exactly what to do incase of a random alien invasion where most are armed with their own personal flying machines and Lazer rifles. The bus was dumb, but Cap keeping his cool and helping the police keep theirs was great.

If it makes you feel any better, GoTG had TONS of deaths. A whole army of nova corps gets brutally destroyed.

I think it's because the Avengers are on Earth. People are more sensitive about destruction happening in a earth city so they downplay the deaths.

Space though? No limits baby. Hell, you can use a super Death Star and blow the fuck out of several planets and kill billions.

More people have died in the current "Flintstones" comic book than died in the Battle of New York.

Well, plus or minus ten or twenty or so.

>Yeah, and now that X-Men Apocalypse was critically panned, don't expect Thanos to be a huge threat.

what does AoA have to do with anything?

>Yeah, and now that X-Men Apocalypse was critically panned, don't expect Thanos to be a huge threat.

Those two statements don't connect with each other.

People didn't like the Apocalypse destruction because it was the same "faceless CGI shots of a city being destroyed with no context to make you care" scenes a lot of other blockbusters have.

And that was hardly the only thing people didn't like about Apocalypse.

Cap didn't help the police, he told them bullet points of their training then ran off. And yes, those street beaters would know as much of what to do in the situation as Cap, probably more. The flying laser bikes and whales are out of their purview, but evacuation and active shooter engagement is not.

Maybe 74 is the death by falling debris count?
Or maybe Death By Heart Attack after being saved by a hot blonde god or sexy redhead in tight leather, count.

Still is a very unreasonable body count.

We have giant flying monsters crashing to the ground.
Hulk is moving around the city by digging himself into buildings, so tones of falling debris there.

Tons of groups of humans hiding in buildings that the aliens were at the ready to kill, and you only have 6 heroes to swoop in and save that group.
So even if they stop 6 of those at once, there were prolly 10 going on at once.

You do realize all the MCU movies are PG13 not PG?
They're even designed for that young of an audience.
It's just a young audience is allowed in theaters because mommy and daddy are there.

Apocalypse was Thanos. He was their big boss. It was why they made sure to rush his movie before infinity war. And all the critics and reviewers and auidences were triggered by the mass destruction in the movie.
You think Disney is going to do the same thing that got X-Men Apocalypse panned?


Atleast that's what my headcanon says

What mass destruction?
Dude had every nuke and did nothing with them.

I always got the impression that it was 74 casualties, but probably many MANY more injured.

>but probably many MANY more injured.
Yeah, about 2000 scraped knees.

6700 boo-boos
890 owies

and a few fractured egos.

I don't know what comics you read, but I have never read a supes comic where he tries to take the battle out of the city before it gets destroyed. He only thinks about that after massive amounts of destruction. Case in point, read rebirth action comics where supes fights doomsday, he doesn't even lead doomsday out of the city, doomsday is the one that leaves the battle.

This is fucking retarded

It's just a fucking number. It doesn't interfere at all with any story. Just replace it with any other if it bothers you.

You do realize that "casualties" include the injured, right?
Meaning that 74 people were were either killed or injured in the battle of New York.
(Unless the russos used the word incorrectly like you just did)

This is marvel bias right here. Everything that you just mentioned is very similar to MoS.
>His first week of learning to fly
>His first time as superman
>He's fighting enemies just as powerful as him
>He doesn't have a team to help him, he has to do it on his own
>If anything, supes deserves a pass more than the avengers
>Everyone in the avengers already had battle experience before the alien invasion

>being a good example of anything
>wasting trips
For shame.

You do realise that it can mean both, right?

But I'd say it's a fair bet to guess that it's used in the sense that 74 people died.

Maybe it was a giant green monster, literal god, WW2 legend everyone thought was dead, and Iron Mean teaming up against literal aliens blew everyone's mind

Except he did try to get him to less populated areas or kept thinking how he had to put doomesday in position where he wouldn't be able to move and cause damage

Avengers makes a point that the area they're fighting in is evacuated

>literal god

But how do you know that supes in MoS wasn't thinking the same thing. We can't see thoughts in movies so who knows. Also, Supes takes zod to the skies, away from the crowded streets, so he was at least trying.

something in jessica jones was dumb?

stop the fucking presses. That show show was a bastion of intelligent writing that in no way patronised the viewers. I can't believe they wrote an episode that seemed to lack forethought. I for one, am stunned.

fuck jessica jones it was a shit show just fuck it was awful.


74 people is still a lot more than your math suggests.

t. person who watched 30 minutes of the first episode

Wasn't the SHIELD security council going to obliterate the entire city with a nuclear weapon?

I disagree, as soon as Kilgrave got into the show it became loads better, really bumbed they killed him off and I'm hoping that the crap he room towards the end regenerates his body, but deforms it with purple skin.

Wasn't the low body count due to Disney interference?

Fun fact

One of the people who gave that order was Malak from Agents of Sheild season 3.

i watched the whole fucking season. Every minute of that shit. and it is garbage. It was insulting and tedious and generally not very good. It was such a disappointment I went back and rewatched season 1 of daredevil to make sure I hadn't just considered that great because it was decent and on netflix.

jessica jones was that bad it literally made me question daredevil. well JJ and half of s2 of DD didn't help, anything that wasn't FRANK was basically a waste of time.

there were some great bits will kilgrave not gonna lie but it didn't stop the show being a massive disappointment with little direction that felt like five people were fighting over where the show should go. Not to mention how completely insulting it was with shit like the jessica's house reveal, which was fucking botched as shit where they basically double revealed it in one minute right before the end of the episode. that could have been a great reveal and instead was hamfisted as shit.

>only work a few blocks of the entirety of the New York area that's being attacked
>a fucking skyscraper gets fucked to pieces by the space whale, and we know a lot of people are in those don't we?
>hurr the fatalities were low cuz the avengers r fast and efficient
Stop sucking marvels dick dude, neither DC nor marvel deserve that kind of loyalty. Then again I think this is just bait

>what was and is still treated as the MCU's 9/11^5

What was truly damaging about 9/11 wasn't the loss of life, it was the unexpected and audacious nature of the attack itself - one which seemed impossible, in the moments it was still happening, and immediately raised fears that you could literally never guard against such attacks again. Of course this is irrational; fears often are. The fear here was based on the "common knowledge" that "airports are secure" because you go through security. You do that, incidentally, largely because of one man who to this day hasn't been identified (or his body recovered, much less the money he stole. Before "D.B. Cooper", getting on an airplane was like getting on a bus, only for the rich and the business traveller (of a certain kind). After? You started getting searched. You started getting asked questions, and looked at carefully, and eventually getting your stuff x-rayed and your body wiped over with a metal detector. And even with all that, hijackings continued. People still died in the air. Lockerbie, for one - not that the man they eventually caught was any kind of angel, but he didn't do it, he's just the man who was thrown to the wolves - so you still get these outrages and you still don't get justice over them. You never, ever will, and anybody who promises to 100% eliminate them is wrong.

But we still believe we're inviolable. We have short memories and we forget.

Aliens turn up and wreck half of Manhattan? You'd better believe that's going to cause huge economic problems (just like 9/11) and fuck people up with fear. The number of deaths is immaterial (other than to the families of the victims). The fear - the hysteria - is what's important. It's hard to judge how much there will be - but if you were trying to cause it, and you judged it right, you could have the whole US fighting to lock itself down with 0 deaths from whatever you did. Humans are the only higher species that will shit itself to death.

MoS Superman could solo most versions of the Avengers in 5 seconds so I don't get your points, if the people he was fighting being just as strong as him actually mattered then he would have lost.

Because the fight itself wasn't all that dark and didn't warrant the high body count. Loki mutilating an eye had an plot important reason and sets up how much of a villain he is.

I was about to point that out...

It's a Disney movie, what did you expect?
Kind of movie where people get shot and hurt all the time but never bleed, where you will never see a dead body lying on the ground.

What about Star Wars?

none of the clones bled

And none on earth will when Thanos blows it up.

Naw, Thanos is just going to snap his fingers and erase half of all life everywhere, we won't see any dead bodies or blood, just the aftermath.

He destroyed up an entire city with Sand then had Magneto kill millions with his powers.

You do realize 74 people would still be considered mass murder, right?

He also doesn't understand that news papers tend to embellish facts in order to sell papers "74 dead" isn't as good as a headline as "Hundreds Dead"

it's kind of moot, the only reason they made the numbers they did in CW was so all the causalities would add up for an easter egg

>It may be worth noting, however, that the number 274 is in part an Easter Egg alluding to The Avengers Issue #274, which was called "Divided... We Fall!", which is the movie's Tagline.

>that green text
>them dubs
Holy shit, that's actually pretty fucking rad

Zod was kicking his ass for most of that fight. He had no control of that fight whatsoever.

Just remember how many times Clark had thrown a punch in his entire life up until that point, and here he is fighting for his life and the life of every human being on earth.

Pretty cool to get the scoop from someone who did 9/11
Thanks for filling us in.

or maybe Marvel heroes are just better?

not that difficult when you care about saving everyone and not only Lois Lane over and over