Can Marvel be saved? People claim they want a "Marvel Rebirth", but is that possible?

The three things Marvel can do right away, since finding new talent can take some time to settle in, are:

>Price Drop
$2.99 is a great move by DC. $3.99 is bad enough as it is, but Marvel keeps putting out $4.99 and $5.99 books that have filler junk in the back.

>End the constant events
When was the last time Marvel didn't interrupt their ongoing books with the next "big" event that will "change" everything? I stopped reading some of the post-Secret Wars books I was picking up (New Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Doctor Strange) because they got dragged into events and tie ins.

>Stop the gimmicks
Namely the constant renumbers and variants. This really goes hand-in-hand with the constant event cycle "shaking" things up. It's like they're trying to crash the industry again.

Get your shit together, Marvel. Or don't, I'm happy with my DC heavy pull right now.

>Millar
>Ellis, Gillen, and Ewing
C-listers at best.

Why don't you just shut up, and stop complaining

>alienate their core readers for an audience that doesn't even read comics

Then who do you think is buying them??

Comic shops.

Nobody

>Dropping the legacy characters would help nothing - outside of Miles Morales and JaneThor, they're good characters who are well recieved when written well. Getting rid of the likes of Chulk, Kamala Khan, Robbie Reyes and SamCap would be exactly the kind of regression towards a safe, boring status quo that people accuse Rebirth of, whether warranted or not.

What safe boring status quo?

The originals have already been tarnished. Peter Parker is literally a manchild that tried to murder a little girl. Steve Roger is a Nazi (and will probably die like in his vision). Hawkeye is a murderer. Iron Man is a retard that doesn't want to stop Thanos before he arrives. Carol Danvers is a thought police and antisemite. Wolverine was an idiot and now dead. Beast is an idiotical mad scientist. Pym is Ultron. Odinson is a pussy. Nick Fury is the Watcher.

Maybe in ten years if they swipe all this under the rug then things could get better.

But even then the same shitty writers (like Bendis, Slott, Hopless, ect) are still there.

Collectors that think the first five issues of a series will be worth millions some day.

>What safe boring status quo?
You know, the one that sells like hotcakes.

loot crate & eventually scholastic.

Oh, are we at the point now where we call things that work "status quo" now.

>But even then the same shitty writers (like Bendis, Slott, Hopless, ect) are still there.

Chilling thought: those ass clowns are replaced with millennial SJW commies.

Things can always get worse.

Cred Forums is funny when they do this. Motherfuckers will get their fill through pirating and storytimes here and yet claim the people who like nu-Marvel dont buy comics.

Literally ever single problem with Marvel can be traced back to two writers Bendis and Slott. Marvel doesn't need saving just because DC is finally do good for once in a few years. You can 'save' Marvel with a few simple steps.

>restrict Bendis to one street level book per year
The guys problem is that he's trying to write to fucking much and has gotten lazy, give him one thing to focus on and I bet it will come out good

>move Slott off of the lead writer position for Amazing Spider-Man
People are worn out on Slott and want something diffrent, Thompson, Kelly, Conway, these three guys are taking train wrecks made by Bendis and Slott and spinning them into gold

>keep brandwide events to a minimum
I don't mind the occasion 6 part crossover event, but year long company wide events are bad, and Civil War 2 is proof. No one at Marvel aside from Bendis wants to write that dreck and it shows in the tie in issues.

I think if these three things happened you'd see a vast improvement in Marvel's comic line.

Yes, a universe that has been defined by reboots, characters being written wildly different by various writers, being portrayed differently by various artists, and where reality and history itself is deemed fluid by what is "canon" or not is completely unsalvageable because of one string of bad comics at one time in history

It's certainly not like Marvel was basically bankrupt before or anything and came back from that

JUST KILL THEM ALL, VISION
NO ONE CAN STOP YOU

>Can Marvel be saved?

Marvel can be saved, but not by resurrecting and redoing all the superheroes and storylines from the past fuckin' century. It needs to branch out beyond capeshit and publish more original, non-capeshit stuff. Only the hardcore fanboys really give a shit about the major legacy characters at this point, anyway, and that market isn't growing any more.

>Price Drop
Considering that each issue of Marvel comics with a free digital issue I don't mind paying the extra dollar. I'm at work, and it's slow as fuck, you know what I'm able to do? Read my Marvel comics. I'd like to read the few DC titles I have on my pull list, but I don't want to flush out the extra cash to buy the digital copies at full price, and I'm not about to take the few DC titles off my pull list because then I'll lose my discount at my lcs.

In this day and age when you can carry your comics around on a computer in your back pocket, giving people a free digital issue is pretty fucking cool of Marvel, and I'd happily pay an extra buck for DC to do the same, I know most people would disagree with me here, but I don't care. I spend most of my time away from home and can't carry my long boxes around with me.

also consider the fact that you know... Marvel isn't even doing that poorly right now

Yeah sure, DC has majority marketshare coming hot off rebirth but just barely. If Marvel was doing as badly as Cred Forums thinks it is, they would be changing a lot more a lot quicker. No company would be as stupid as to do the same things that is making it go bankrupt all the way down, especially not one owned by Disney and is a related market to one of the hottest franchises in movie history.

I hate that "muh marvel" has extended to the whole company

Bring a book to work. I have never redeemed an online copy of a comic book, and I never will. Comics should be read on paper.

>What can be done at this point?
Fire all the sjws. Tell guards to shoot them if they are close to the building.
Real continuity. Characters will grow old and die. And they won't appear in more than 2 series.
No more decompressed narrative. I.e. fire Bendis.
No more Ultimate universe.
90s characters: kill them off. Fuck Cable, Deadpool and all that shit.
Punisher out of 616 universe.
Don't charge more than 2 $ per issue.
Fuck crossovers and events.
Less splash pages. We are telling a story, you know.
No Conservative messages in comics.
Aunt may dies forever.
Iron man: he fell into a puddle and got rust. Killed off or a B-list again.

>Fuck Deadpool
you're retarded

>No more Ultimate universe.

But there is no Ultimate universe. Did you just save this from an old post because you have some sort of compulsive disorder?

>comics should be read on paper
While I agree with this, the majority of Cred Forums would seem to disagree come Wednesday.

>Find and resurrect Alan Grant
>Give him Ghostrider and possibly Blade

>what is Miles Morales?

Absolutely that happens, I'm sure. But for me that aspect of Cred Forums is more a filter so as not to waste money. Or in some cases a story time makes me aware of something I didn't even know about. So I still go out and buy comics. I just shop less and save money because I go in knowing what I want.

An ultimate character in 616, as is The Maker. What's your point? Their shitty universe got blown up and isn't coming back.

Aren't Miles sales always bellows Peter?

>People claim they want a "Marvel Rebirth", but is that possible?

It's easily possible. Rebirth really didn't change that much. Post Crisis Superman came back and Wally returned. So far those are the only major changes

Rebirth was more a change of mindset than anything else. DC asked themselves "Who are we?" And "Why did our fans like us in the first place?" Marvel can easily do this and do it well. They don't have to sideline their minority legacy characters to do this either, DC found a way around this with Green Lanterns and Black Wally being a Teen Titan.

>Namely the constant renumbers and variants
Didn't they announced recently even more variants as their way of coming back to the top?

>Getting rid of the likes of Chulk, Kamala Khan, Robbie Reyes and SamCap would be exactly the kind of regression towards a safe, boring status quo that people accuse Rebirth of, whether warranted or not.

So?

Yeah.

616 doesn't need him, so out he goes.

>Dropping the legacy characters would help nothing

I hope you're not implying that's what Rebirth did

>Dropping the legacy characters would help nothing - outside of Miles Morales and JaneThor, they're good characters who are well recieved when written well. Getting rid of the likes of Chulk, Kamala Khan, Robbie Reyes and SamCap would be exactly the kind of regression towards a safe, boring status quo that people accuse Rebirth of, whether warranted or not.

Quick tell me a minority character than DC sidelined because from what I can tell Rebirth brought more to prominence by bringing Simon Baz forward from background lantern hell and keeping Black Wally in the main Flash book and also making him a Teen Titan

And Duke is the new pseudo-Robin and there's asian Superman.

The difference is these are good things. Outside of Kamala and Robbie, Marvel wasn't doing it right.

Pretty much these, people were happy not just because the OG Wally is back, but also, the nu52 can now grow as character and take any direction the writers want because he's no longer just black wally only time will tell if he can become a likable character

Storytime is nice when I don't know if I want to start with a series, but otherwise I only go there for the discussion.

It's another Cred Forumstard who doesn't read comics.

Battered housewives.

I agree, he probably saw that Miles Morales had a title and assumed the Ultimate universe was still around.

If it wasn't for storytimes I wouldn't pick up half the stuff I do. Lately that's been New Super-Man and Flintstones

I only buy things I have read through storytime

Not gonna waste my money on shit I dont like

>Marvel comics with a free digital issue I don't mind paying the extra dollar.
You do realise it costs Marvel nothing. If Sony can do cross buy with games and Amazon gives you a digital copy when you buy a cd, there's no reason Marvel can't with comics. Your extra dollar is not for the digital copy. This is just something you tell yourself to alleviate the price's burn.

He wrote most of it decades ago and is now holding out on us.

>All these people thinking OP meant that DC killed off all their minorities and not "80% of the board thinks that Marvel would be fixed if they brought the white people back"

Then why doesn't DC offer free digital issues as well? Marvel only marked up their price after they started the free digital deal.

>Marvel only upped the price after including something that you didn't ask for

Okay, but that still doesn't answer the question.

No, I didn't ask for digital copies, yes, I am very pleased that they now include digital copies, you make this sound like it should be bad, why exactly should I be upset?

They have no real reason to, I guess. People who buy the floppy will read the floppy.

What would would they even gain? With Marvel I suppose they're more invested in digital because Marvel Unlimited but DC wouldn't really do much other than risk upsetting their digital sales.

They can actually do it pretty easy: by ending the "X-Men are endangered" story, and restarting the Fantastic Four comic.

That, more than ditching the legacy characters (some of whom are OK anyway) would signal that they were going "back to basics." The psychotic downplaying of anything with a Fox connection is to Marvel what the New 52 was to DC.

Hell it would even allow them to kick some old white characters out of the MU by sending the original teen X-Men back where they belong.

They're not going to do this because Perlmutter won't let them, but that's the simple fix for what ails them. Even people who don't read X-Men or FF would get the symbolism of seeing those teams put back where they belong.

Lately Miles has actually been selling more. Because Slott's writing is just that bad now. Slot is so desperate for sales that he's bringing back the clone saga for controversy bux. He's so desperate that he wrote an open letter to retailers and fans pleading then to buy Clone Conspiracy because it will be "the main Spider-Man book" and change things FOREVER.

>Millar plans to write a definite Superman comic.
I remember him saying that but it feels like 10 years ago at least. God I hope that prospect is still on the table. Millar has had his fair share of shit books, but he's always done right by Supes.

>People claim they want a "Marvel Rebirth", but is that possible?
not unless disney swoops in and fires most of their management/editors and several of the household writers.

These guys have maneuvered themselves into a situation where they keep congratulating themselves for taking a shit in the morning, only listen to people who also praise them for being terrible and dismissing absolutely everything else as trolling or as "it's good if they're mad".
And since all the established writers are always doing stellar work by these standards, there is never any need for letting someone else take a turn on the bigger titles anymore.

Marvel in its current form needs to die and die fucking hard.

>When was the last time Marvel didn't interrupt their ongoing books with the next "big" event that will "change" everything?
According to Marvel, The Heroic Age line avoided events. But it saw a significant sales drop as a result, which told them that events are what people really want. I blame the consumer base for our current problem.

>one string of bad comics at one time in history
>one time
You mean 10 to 15 years?

Editorial needs a shake up. They need a clear vision for their books not constant events. Getting rid of the mandatory diversity and letting the writers and editors develop the characters and their stories while still under one umbrella universe is what needs to happen. Let books and readers discover on another rather than targeting readers. Try hards die hard.

Where? Where has he been selling more? Slott's sales faltered but still 30k above Miles.

So, their idea of retaking the market is by flooding it with variants?

>Dropping the legacy characters would help nothing - outside of Miles Morales and JaneThor, they're good characters who are well recieved when written well. Getting rid of the likes of Chulk, Kamala Khan, Robbie Reyes and SamCap would be exactly the kind of regression towards a safe, boring status quo that people accuse Rebirth of, whether warranted or not.
I don't mind a "safe, boring status quo" as long as it has good stories.

Marvel got mad a Morrison, not Morrison at Marvel. If they let him write an OGN or mini (since he doesn't want to do ongoings any more) I bet he's at least consider if he had time for it.

Ennis wrote a mini for Secret Wars, I'm sure Marvel could get another six issues out of him.

Si Spurrier hasn't written anything for Marvel since X-Force, I wonder what's up there.

>Captain America's not likable now
>Iron Man's not likable now
>Spider-Man's not likable now
The Mouse can't do shit

>he doesn't read Spider-Man and Deadpool
>he doesn't ready Spidey
I guess Cred Forums really doesn't read comics

Source? because im pretty sure Miles just defeat Peter sales in one month

Where's your sources? Comichron has ASM's lower selling issue at 70k, where Miles is at 50 k. Unless you mean Spidey, which is getting worked

How the fuck is JaneThor a good character?

Thats why i was asking for sources user, the other user say Miles was selling more than Peter and every month people talk about how Slott wrting is getting worse, but keep seling more than Miles, so i want real sources of who's seling more, but i remember Peter use to sell more than Miles

>"Marvel Rebirth"
Keep DC things out of Marvel, he don't have "rebirths" we have "events"

Simple answer?
No
Long answer?
_______________ __________________,no,________________ _______ ___________

>Si Spurrier hasn't written anything for Marvel since X-Force, I wonder what's up there.

He had an Elsa Bloodstone mini for Secret Wars, but you're right. Dude was like their best writer for a good stretch of time.

Aside from some much needed fresh blood in editorial, I don't think so. It feels like they've painted themselves into a corner.

>I stopped reading some of the post-Secret Wars books I was picking up (New Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Doctor Strange) because they got dragged into events and tie ins.
New Avengers is still good. Their CW2 tie-in is mostly continuing the New Avengers story while the event happens in the background. I would recommend picking it up again.

Warlock makes a comeback, so it can't be all bad, right?

The original Marvel NOW! seemed like it was going to be that. The X-Men Decimation story was finally over, most of the characters were more or less in their normal status quos except Spider-Man being replaced by Spider-Ock (which was obviously temporary). Back then with the New 52 it seemed like Marvel was the company that was giving the fans the characters they wanted.

Then came a) the orders to pump up the Inhumans and downplay almost anyone Fox-connected; b) the politicization of the comics press and Marvel trying to portray itself as the forward-thinking, progressive company.

I don't think these things are connected (and I don't think the diversity push would feel as off if it wasn't for the Fox embargo), but they've combined to make Marvel seem like DC did in 2012.

Then it really just comes down to whether you want to pay 3.99 for floppie + digital, or $2.99 for a floppie then $2.99 for a digital (so $6 if you want both, but only $3 if you want one or the other). If you like to have both, then Marvel's model is better. If you don't really give a shit about having a digital copy and just want your floppie, then DC's pricing is better. But for some people, it's $4 vs. $6 while others it's $4 vs. $3.

I just pirate my digital copies then buy floppies so the cheaper the baseline, the better.

One good sign is that the comics "media" is no longer quite as reflexively pro-Marvel as it's been for the last couple of years and social justice stories don't get as many clicks as they did anyway.

Marvel has had a really toxic mutual relationship with comics sites which assure them anything they do in the name of social justice is great, while passing on Marvel's assurances that it isn't trying to downplay the X-Men.

Unfortunately they still have the assurance that they can get Disney-related media to shill for them, but at least they can't buy positive coverage for Civil War 2. There are limits even to online hackery.

LCSs, speculators, collectors, etc.

Most readers buy trades.

>Implying there are no millennial SJW commies writing ar Marvel right now

>But it saw a significant sales drop as a result, which told them that events are what people really want
No, what happens is that advertising is reduced to a minimum during the non event periods, and that means sales go down to stable levels.

Events and "controversial" storylines are accompanied by lots of publicity. And that drives sales up by catching the attention outside the standard fanbase.

>It needs to branch out beyond capeshit and publish more original, non-capeshit stuff
Why? Like, straight up, why? What could they possibly be doing in the non-cape market that isn't instantly more appealing coming from one of the various third party publishers. If people want mainstream non-cape, they go to Image.

It's not like Vertigo and the HB books are lighting up the sales charts either.

People go to Marvel because they want capes. The point of contention is that some people don't like Marvel's current slate of books. It has nothing to do with the genre.

Ultimate wasn't shitty at first
fuck you baldis ;_;

Ultimate Spider-Man was good, the rest of the Ultimate U sucked hard though. So hard.

Miracleman joining the Marvel universe when?

The only Marvel rebirth I want involves stoning Bendis in the town square.

Remember when Ultimates was the hot cool book and Busiek and Johns' Avengers were considered old-fashioned and corny? Well, they were old-fashioned and corny but fun, and Ultimates actually looks way more of its time.

>Their good writers are mostly limited to Al Ewing and a few only good for comedy, and they can't get proven greats on-board because most of them have already gone DC exclusive
1) Duggan is better than Ewing
2) Ellis and Kelly write for Marvel

His Miracleman is fucking garbage and violates the spirit of Moore's story.

Yes user. Marvel is doing all of this off the wall dumb shit because they got tired of all the money that the status quo was bringing in and wanted to sell half their usual load.

Do Marvel Comics fanboys still exist on Cred Forums?

The Maker was fun

Yep, we're just chilling right now watching DC m fanbois have some fun in the sun. It's been great to be honest.

Ellis and Kelly only write occasional minis and not main runs

Kelly is currently writing Spider-Man and Deadpool which is not a mini. The user in question also forgot to mention Conway and Thompson

I bet they could be enticed with a good idea for a run. The line of communication is open. Ellis would fuck the deadlines though

Also, Conway is bringing his A-game in Carnage.

Wait until that's all that exists at the House of Old Idea.

>Kelly is currently writing Spider-Man and Deadpool which is not a mini.

Is it? I just figured they just had a lot of delays so they added more issues to fill in.

How's the new Thor? I liked Scalped, but is it just typical capeshit or is it worth a read

A mini usually ends around 4 or six issues, SM/DP is on issue 9 I think and doesn't show any signs of stopping, they brought in some guest teams to write a pair of filler issues, but that was about it.

It's nice to have a choice. DC used to do that for their bigger titles but stopped.

Who would Henry play in the MCU?

Hyperion.

What if marvel as we know it just kinda winds down to an ending?
What if this marvel universe/multiverse/canon ended, and they made a new one, start from scratch kinda?
Is such a thing even a feasible possibility to ever take place?
I hope it is.

It would be as shitty as Ultimate turned out to be

The problem is not the continuity. The problem is the editorial and the "talent" they have contracted. They need to clean house.

>What can be done at this point?

I stopped buying Marvel comics after Hopeless wrote that ham-fisted gore porn book.

Disney does not give two fucks about comics. It's a tiny niche in a shrinking market. The Mouse will happily plunder the vault of stories for DECADES.

Why worry about writing more new stuff? Keep the moribund corpse of minimal life support and quietly shut it down in a few more years.

Your grand-children will gaze in wonder as you tell them stories of the days when cartoons were printed on real paper and sold for people to read.

Comic books are basically the buggy-whip portion of the horse-drawn carriage industry that is print media. It's alllll going away, the Internet is eating it all.

Some comics might survive in an ultra-niche market, but that's about it.

Capeshit will migrate to web comics or perish. And frankly, Disney doesn't care a hill of beans. They just bought enough material to produce product for the next few decades, after all.

Something new and better will come along, it's almost inevitable.

I'll see if Genndy's Luke Cage is good first

>The problem is the editorial and the "talent" they have contracted. They need to clean house.

What they should do is look for new, young writers who can handle the genre.

Note the word WRITERS. Their art staff is fine. The issue is the incompetent hacks who can't hang a story together with both fucking hands.

They should hire guys like Tom Siddell, who has been cranking out comics for a decade now, and they are well written, interesting, and funny.

They should hire Wildbow, the guy who wrote Worm FOR FUN, and give him an art team and some editors and then get the fuck out of his way.

They should have the Mouse give them access to their script writers and let those guys churn out solid fun stories that fit continuity. Hollywood script writers are capable and proven to be able to tell stories using existing properties.

This would start laying the foundation for the NEXT few decades of projects for Disney.

It all comes down to the STORY. With no story, there's no product.

Fuck off USMfag. Your shit comic was an overrated mediocrity people only care about because of nostalgia.

Ultimate Fantastic Four was easily superior to that piece of shit. Ultimates 1 and 2 were better. Ultimate X-Men was great before someone had the bright idea to put Kirkman on it.

>"controversial" storylines

That didn't do shit for Captain America. It sells lower than Aquaman now

Yeah I love the Marvel universe and I know that is the greatest when it's allowed to be. I hate current Marvel because of the people running it into the ground

But it's selling higher than your standard Cap book, Sam or Steve. I don't see what Aquaman has to do with anything.

Not me for sure.

another punch to marvel they wanted me mad?
well, here's the no money tantrum.

Why is Marvel mad at him? Is it because Bendis hated Cat Beast? He needs to get over that shit.

Aquaman's undeniable awesomeness has everything to do with this!
Listen to DC's hired shill: they know quality comics when they push them in online forums!

Less and less people every week, goin' by the numbers.

>Si Spurrier hasn't written anything for Marvel since X-Force, I wonder what's up there.

I'm pretty sure that Spurrier, like Fraction, Gillen and other former Marvel writers, is focusing solely on Image and other non-Big 2 publishers.

I wouldn't call letting Sam have his identity back a regression.

Captain America just stared in a billion dollar movie and Marvel used it's old tactic of controversy to boost sales and he's losing out to the fucking fish guy. Call me a shill if you want but that's fucking pathetic

Millar is working on a secret Superman story and also a Spider-Man graphic novel

if you seriously think Marvel hasn't had a single good comic since 2001 then you are hilariously delusional

like all reboots do?

I legitimately can't wait for when Rebirth dies down, DC drops under Marvel's marketshare, and everyone starts crying again about how its not fair that the better company is losing

... And welcome to Cred Forums. First time here?

Wasn't a Reboot.

No fuck off.

>Being this much of a company loyalist

wew lad

Name 1 (one) good Marvel comic.

Basically people that are desperate for their favorite Marvel books. This is why ASM still sells well.

Put Bendis on ASM. Hide Slott's body. Done. Marvel is saved.

>fire all sjws
>no conservative messages in comics.

So what are we saying, wise sir.

Name 1 (one) DC comic that wasn't made for it's readers to mindlessly jerk off to.
(protip: you can't, brah)

The current Vision series is good, even if they've already pillaged it for waifus and the final release has been delayed for ages.

VVhe must burn all zhe books zhat do not teach zhe RIGHT-think!

DC is making comics for their fans!? Those bastards!

STOP
IF YOU DESTROY THIS BENDIS
YOU DESTROY MARVEL

Here's how I think it will work. Comics will stagger along. They have been with us for a long time, it's not unreasonable to think they will keep going for a long time.

Right now capeshit is hotshit for movies. So not only will there be many SJW infiltrators: they will want to keep to stew bland enough that they can make movies out of it later that won't upset normies.

After capeshit movies start to taper off there will be less SJW and corporate interest in comics. By this stage many politically incorrect guys like Sam Hyde will be in the culture.

Comics will seek to be edgy and alt-right and positive reinforcement will occur when they realize doing that actually makes white men buy capeshit again.

>Alt-Right

You Americans really latch on to shit if it's repeated enough, huh?

Now, one could counter-signal this and say "Disney will refuse to let alt-right shit go into their comics." Well, that's true up to a point. But consider this:
SJWs want to flip things on their head. They want to say being strong makes you an oppressor and being weak and helpless is the real strength.
Do those notions lend themselves to capeshit? Fuck no. Normies are helpless and exceptional people use their strength to protect them. Capeshit can quite naturally lend itself to the right.

The label is repeated specifically so that people can use it as an insult

>I have to smash a useful umbrella term for a culture of related individuals and groups fed up with the Left. Right-wing people that you could say are an ALTERNATIVE to what passes for main stream right-wing.
>I have to smash it, because reasons.

And yet all I see being posted is:
>"Muh Whut Race! Muh Whut race! Hurrr!"

Hasn't evolution wiped it's ass of the inferior Aryan race yet?

>I like capeshit but I don't like the people who have always made it profitable.

Maybe you should have some gratitude. If it were up to PoC and feminists there would be no comics.

>Ennis is at DC.
Ennis is actually working on Punisher Max: Platoon with Marvel right now.

Cyclops.

Sure you don't want to explain any more tinfoil theories before melting down?
What about THE COMMIES?
Are pinkoes turning our 'Merican boys into the gay with Batman comics?
Are they sapping our precious fluids with fluoride in the tap-water?
Come on, you know the FEMINIST conspiracy is just the tip of the iceberg!

but why should the creators write those new, indipendet stories for Marvel instead of go indie and take most of the money for themselves?

I can think of three which are actually good (four if Punisher MAX counts).

Planet Hulk, Tom King's Vision, and Thor God Killer.

I'm sure there are probably more, but three/four in fifteen years is pretty shitty.

So a series being well received by it's base is a bad thing?

This is Tom Brevort posting isn't it?

I really would like to hash it out with you but first you have to make some arguments.
In this post you appear to be positing that there is no Left-wing or Far-left influence on comics.

Well can you explain things such as tumblr Squirrel Girl, woman Thor, black Cap', black Spiderman, black Iron Man etc. without such an influence?
Can you explain Muslim Captain Britain? Guys in comics getting punched by chicks for saying they don't like feminism? Girls in comics saying that Gamergate is misogyny?

I'm afraid you actually have to be quite ignorant to argue against it. It's not even a conspiracy theory, friend.

People that go for the liberal arts are much more left-wing, on average. So it would actually be quite strange for a written and drawn medium NOT to have a left-wing influence, wouldn't it?
It's not as if Rush Limbaugh is going to be writing Spiderman, is it?

>ignoring some of the best x-men stories
>Planet Hulk
oh so im just talking with a pleb

>Comics will seek to be edgy and alt-right

Comics have been progressive since their infancy. I don't see this changing in a hurry. Literally the only time they became conservative was after fuckface published Corruption of the Innocent, or whatever that dumb book was called which lead to the creation of the CCA, and even then by the beginning of the Silver Age they were back to being progressive and by the mid 70s they were being edgy.

Superman's earliest badguys were Capitalist. Captain America's earlier badguys were literal Nazis. You don't have a fucking clue about comics, and you probably think Frank Miller is right wing like pic related.

Protip if you actually read The Dark Knight Returns a big part of it is a scathing critique against Reagan.

The dog's books were kinda mediocre tb.h. But still more enjoyable than Morrisons.

Disney isn't progressive in the fucking slightest. It just has the appearance of being progressive. It's why Rey and Finn can't and won't bang in the new Star Wars trilogy because race-mixing (particularly black man/white woman) is abhorrent to that bullshit company.

Good points. I don't think I could paint you a realistic picture where comics become a right-wing medium.
But, do you acknowledge that there is a political spectrum and in recent years they have been going further to one side than they historically did?
I am aware of the (((creators))) of some of the most prominent characters.

I would put it to you that they never historically sought to punish their readers. (white boys and then later: white men) They sought to sell them a product by entertaining them.

While in comics today you actually see open loathing of white men, white people. Pandering to ethnic groups and ideologies that never bought comics and never will. It is madness.

If comics actually went back to where they were in the 80s it would be a RIGHTward shift.

You aren't worth it, you Tumblrtrash.
Go back to Cred Forums or read a book so you can stop posting pure shit-head ignorance here, those are your options because a long drawn-out reality learning session with me isn't in the cards.

>ignoring some of the best x-men stories

Was Clairmont writing X-Men comics in 2001? If so then maybe I'm wrong...

... Oh wait.

I touched on that when I mentioned corporate interests making for bland comics.
The Left dominate the culture so corporations do at least pay lip service to that.
For instance: probably every business statement these days will mention how great diversity is and they will actively promote diversity.
(Even if only because it means they can import Indians to do jobs under unfair conditions, up to and including glorified slave labor)

Aren't you a little embarrassed to say things with no argument in there?

The dumber I am the more easily it should be for you to school me, slick.

I agree that there is definitely a level of pandering at the moment. However it isn't a unique thing within the comic book industry.

There have been other race and gender swaps in the past (John Stewart anyone?). These things usually pass and sometimes they work out well and create beloved characters (again John Stewart).

And if you look beyond pandering and into actual ideology the 80s comic ideology was far more progressive than the 2010s comic ideology of today. During the 80s you had the beginning of dark age of comics and British invasion. It was by and large very anti-authority. These days you've got fuckers like Iron Man losing his place as a libertarian and becoming a government hack (thanks to Civil War, the first one).

I, as a white male, am not currently being made to feel bad by the current comics I'm buying. However I will say that I have only picked up very scattered Marvel Comics since Civil War.

DC hasn't been pandering nearly as much as Marvel in the past decade.

I know what you mean. I think I read Hellblazer from the first one up to... Some point in the 90s? I can't remember where I left off.
Just about every issue poked at Thatcher and had some socialist stuff in it. And they were still a great read.

It was a kind of "old left" message, though. It included John and Chas. They weren't called privileged oppressors because they were white.
I make a distinction between the SJW and the Leftist. SJWs are leftists, of course, but they fucking hate us and simply want to ruin everything that's good in the world. They don't want a Worker's Paradise. These people would actually look down on anyone that had to work with their hands.

You've seen the pages that get posted on Cred Forums here and there, right? These people want to rub our noses in it that they are in control of something that used to belong to us - comic books.

It isn't the left which dominate the culture. It's identity politics which do. Identity politics is what made the Occupy movement a fucking joke, and they're what corporations and asshole politicians use to continuing pushing neo-liberal agendas because they can pretend to be progressive.

It's part of the reason why no one has written a good Daredevil story is so fucking long. Daredevil is at his best when he's trying to billy-club his way through the symptoms of corruption. Never able to attack it as it's core because he's a blind lawyer (and ninja) who lives in the ghetto.

I'd argue that you can't separate the New Left and identity politics.
And that left-wing identity politics is distinct from that on the Right. So we couldn't simply say "it's all the same."

>tumblrtrash
>Go back to Cred Forums

I know some of the images you're speaking of. There's a couple of FemThor ones. The one where she attacks someone because he calls her weak cause she's a girl is really hamfisted and terrible.

The one with [Unsolicited opinions about Israel] I think is fucking hilarious though. Not because I'm a supporter of the state of Israel, but because I think it's quite a clever tongue and cheek thing.

The Galactus Squirrel Girl gender discussion thing is dumb if it is ever translated into a language which doesn't have gender neutral singular pronouns (which several languages do); but it does kind of raise a point about how it's weird that english doesn't have such a term.

As to other points seeIf right-wing people want to read political comics they can read Chicktracts. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Captain America all belong to the left.

>I'd argue that you can't separate the New Left and identity politics.

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong in the west. Which is a sad fucking state for things in the left, but if one looks at the Arab Spring that was a workers movement which wasn't bogged down by identity politics.

>Thread about how a Marvel Rebirth isn't really possible due to the lack of talent available to them with it all locked down by DC
>Almost immediately devolves into arguments about "abluh bluh marlel too leftist"
I shouldn't be surprised, really.

It's actually turned into a conversation about how Marvel isn't left enough since being bought by the Mouse, but whatever you say.

>violates the spirit of Moore's story
How dare he not write the same shit over and over. Fucking capefags.

It's the other way around because Jemas wanted more grounded stuff from him. Qaesada even begged him to come back, but he was too late.

>get rid of one of their only draws right now

half of their top selling lineup is deadpool, to point of their spinoffs being his flunkies. That would be business suicide.

>violates the spirit of Moore's story.
Ridiculous, if you read the last page of Miracle Man, you know Neil's work on the series is right on point.

>outside of Miles Morales and JaneThor, they're good characters
Sam Alexander is pretty shit.

You know that Alan and Neil are friends, right?

He's freelancing for both, then.

>>Iron Man's not likable now
>now
Tony hasn't been likable since Civil War

Not with Bendis and slott

>but is that possible?

Yes but they need to take Slott of Spider-man (give him Moon Knight, it's all he's wanted for a long time) and get rid of Bendis.

Hasn't been for a long time now. Like Rulk, once he was no longer written by Loeb.

to be fair he said one of the best, not the best...

He said stories not runs.

All of the best X-Men stories were written by Clairmont.

>t. richardfag

Sam is one of the only legacy character who doesn't feel forced in the slightest.

I think Gillen's stories are up there desu.

>The one with [Unsolicited opinions about Israel] I think is fucking hilarious though. Not because I'm a supporter of the state of Israel, but because I think it's quite a clever tongue and cheek thing.
It's a pretty good joke. It just made no fucking sense in context and clashed horribly with the tone of its surroundings.

The Maker isnt 616. The fact that he is an alternate Reed Richards should be obvious.

Marvel doesn't really have a reason to change their current gameplan, they're an IP mill, they'll keep throwing yearly relaunches and keep churning out ideas, picking whichever are hits for a future netflix series or movie. They'll keep their sales from going under by stimulating shops to buy their books through variant covers and other things. The comic company is second fiddle to their movie studio.

Fire Bendis get a good writing team, bring back the classic characters to their original states ( i'e Thor is Thor again, Tony Stark Iron Man, Banner the Hulk, Steve Rogers the only Cap) Restore the X men (Bring back Wolverine, fuck off Inhumans)

Stop the pandering

But we know Marvel won't do that they would rather loose long time readers then do this

Nah, he's still shit, his current writer hasn't even read his previous stuff which leads to things like "I'M SO ALONE DESPITE HAVING A PRETTY GOOD NUMBER OF HERO FRIENDS BOO HOO WOE IS ME, WHAT HAPPENED TO MY GIRLFRIEND"
I haven't read a single issue of Richard Nova.

>Kamala doesn't sell

user...

she sells less than 30k