Hey Cred Forums, redpill me on veganism/vegetarianism. Seems to me like they have the moral highground. :^)

...

They do. I'm one of the few that admit I'll just eat whatever's been paid for by the people around me.

I think there's a difference between beef vs chicken, and animals vs plants, isn't there? At least experientially.

Eating meat is morally superior, especially if the animals are treated adequately until slaughter. It boils down to the following question, since only the individual's suffering matters: would you rather lead a decent life (or a bad one for that matter) and be killed one day to serve as food or never be born at all?

It's interesting you mention pain. I know of a woman in SA who as a child got attacked by a rabid dog that chewed her cheek of and almost died. She felt no pain whatsoever. It's very possible that in such life endangering situations, the brain shuts off the ability to feel pain. If so, then it's very likely that animals who have natural enemies, have evolved similar traits, perhaps even stronger that in humans.

Surely someone who believes murder is wrong is doing the same if they only apply it to humans and not other animals.

Also plants aren't conscious which I think is the differentiation

I think it's great that they help cutting down the meat production.
Meat is good for us but we are producing too much meat and it's destroying the enviroment.

I don't really think we can comment on the difference between life, and never being born at all, because there is not experience at all with the latter, and therefore, no comparison.

By this maxim parents should be able to kill their children for food, providing they brought them into the world with this intent.

>would you rather lead a decent life (or a bad one for that matter) and be killed one day to serve as food or never be born at all?

Who/what does this actually happen to? Those who live good lives don't die to become food at all. How many grass fed cows are there compared to pet cats that eat "crude protein"?

Idk how Germoney is but pet food in the US is garbage.

The third option is that they lead a decent life and die of natural causes, instead of inside a slaughterhouse.

Daily reminder that carrot juice is murder

That person has fetal alcohol syndrome, or is just a hue

Ti-Lite 6" should look smaller than that

LET THE RABBITS WEAR GLASSES

Just remember our ancestors didn't eat meat 3 times a day, they like didn't get it more than once a week if that. Like most foods, it's good as part of a balanced diet. It's bad to cut it out completely but most people today eat too much, myself included.

>Also plants aren't conscious which I think is the differentiation
Neither are shellfish, insects, and probably fish.

They have sensory and nervous systems not dissimilar to those of humans

vegan is much better, people shouldn't live like primitives and subhumans

go take your b12 pill kiddo

Some just hate the taste of meat and others are "doing the world a favor". The second type a just generally more cringy because they try to win brownie points for being a vegan. When really no one gives a shit that you are depriving yourself of proteins.

...

Does moral highground do anything about anemia?

nah, human life is different by convention

Which means you can't apply "would you rather" arguments in the first place

They all lack a neocortex which under our current understand of neuroscience means they aren't capable of conscious thought. You can build a machine like this that reacts to "pain" but that doesn't mean it's conscious.

youtube.com/watch?v=9gOWCVfnN-E

When pain lacks a conscious element it's not technically pain it's nociception.

There is no moral high ground to it.

Do I side with PETA on their videos of people abusing animals at slaughterhouses? Yes.

Do I side with veganism/vegetarianism on the basis on not eating meat? No.

no creatine for you cow

Was Hitler obnoxious about his vegetarianism?

Everyone thinks they have the moral high ground.

On a similar topic, it's also interesting to note that the "pain" argument is largely projection as well. A couple years back, some scientists decided to waste some time to dig in and see which method to boil a lobster is the least painful for the lobster (the two methods being either putting the lobster in cold water and warming it to a boiling point, or throwing the lobster in already boiling water).
Their finding was pretty interesting :
lobsters cannot feel pain

No, it is fine in my example, only in the context of your question a distinction has to be made.

And plants are shown to exhibit signs of pain response.

Your point?

>moral highground
>don't eat meat that made to be eaten
>everyone else stops
>meat made to be eaten doesn't need to be made anymore
>cull of farm animals since the future of farming is vegetables

Woah I'm now a veganigger

This.
Cows create to much methane gas and as much as I sound as an enviormentalist when I say this we really have only have one earth.

To elaborate: Technically you are right, but at some point we give homo sapiens special rights and declare them an actual person, which is basically the moment we declare abortion as unethical.

vegetarians that claim that animals should not be et because pain are inconsistent and have no argument because of their lack of consistency.

Who is this gains goblin?

cunt with an eating disorder

id say plants and seafood id be ok with

if you are worried about the environment then you must be for bombing china into rubble right?

...

Of course :^)

good, I too am concerned for our earth.

> moral highground
What do vegans think about slugs ?

Funny thing is, if we stopped eating meat entirely, we would need to grow a lot more crops and the results on the environment would be even worse as the surface needed to feed humanity would be immense and thus require a lot of deforestation which would not only result in loss of biodiversity but also a possible increase of greeenhouse effect since trees are among the vegetables that take in the most CO2 during their feeding cycles.
That's that's without mentionning the increased quantities of pesticides, insecticides and fertilizer we would need.

Wait is that actually you in the pictures? Or is it someone you knew?

vegans are just Monsantos shills

Consider the following thought experiment: What if it turned out that humans were created by an alien race for the purpose of harvesting our bodies when we are old enough? (they could make/let us live longer but "kill" every individual at some point in their life) Would you be angry and argue that they shouldn't ever have done such a horrible thing or thank them and tell them to keep going?

Did France just redpill me about something?

Ethically sound but I don't care because animals are delicious.

Shit like halal/kosher butchering and factory farms disgust me though. Hunting and processing your own game animals is ultimate redpill.

Morality is subjective. I saw a dear eat a bird.

nah as long as they let us do our own thing for the most part and we don't realiz we will be slaughtered until seconds before we are then its fine

>if we stopped eating meat entirely, we would need to grow a lot more crops and the results on the environment would be even worse

I hope you are being sarcastic because it is literally the opposite.

I'd tell them to do it. Immortality becomes boring at some point so I say I'd be ok with dying at the age of 110

At that point we'd simply reach war, which is the natural way. Somehow people think having the moral ground is absolute; kindness is the privilege of the strong.
We won against animals, and that's fair. The only relevant questions are "how much freedom can we give an animal" and "how effective can we become in harvesting food". This is where vegetaniarism becomes truly important, as we're not yet sure if stuff like would happen, or if cows already do that and getting rid of them would be more effective.

Vegan's and fast food degenerate's only purpose is to serve the semi-omnivore master race as cattle and semen receptacles.

If you kill the animals, the vegans win

I stopped eating meat at 2 years old and never went back.

I'm now 6 foot 2 bulky motherfucker. Not weak by any means.

Would you eat a cat or dog if there was something else available?

They also typically have malnutrition and therefore become more prone to illnesses.

>2 years old
nice maymay.

Consumption of plant matter is necessary for human survival. Animal matter is not, it is energy inefficient to produce, and animals, mammals in particular process pain on a similar level to humans, unlike plants.

Your point?

And you became stupid enough to miss the point of the user you quoted.
Would you have been as strong if you had never been fed meat as a kid?

>Seems to me like they have the moral highground. :^)

No, they're just light-headed because they lack essential nutrients.

>meet to grow

Wew.

Go take your b12 supp cuckboi

Vegetarian since birth, could never be vegan though. Also 6'2 and athletic

Vegetarian here.

Vegetarianism has many health benefits, most people do not eat enough fibre in their food, which increases your chances of type 2 diabetes. Vegetables are also less calorie dense than meat, so you tend to lose weight. Vegetarians live 4 years longer than meat eaters.

You still need protein in your diet but you can easily get that from beans, eggs and diary products. I do a lot of strength training and have been eating Greek yogurt for the protein.

I would recommend going vegetarian for anyone who is worried about their weight or thinks they may be at risk of diabetes.

>muh b12
>I can't handle the taste of marmite

meat has no sugar or carbs.

meat is good for you.

You can get 100% of the nutrients your body needs from vegan sources

You can get B12 from Nori and Tempe you retard

>reduce human population to 50% of what its now
>industrialized cattle farms get redundant
>get back to healthy cattle farms, that eat grass and sunbask whole day in gigantic fields where they can free roam
>healthy cattle = high quality meat + happy animal life until the moment of death

why do that if we can push gmo food and insects as protein source, right monsanto shills? better have more humans consuming for more benefits $$$$$$

it is satanism. they try to put animals same level as humans, thus making humans like animals.

Similar to evolution. all satanic masonic illuminati shills and puppets.

allahu akbar.

And that's without considering the fact that removing breeding for the sake of consumption would also be highly detrimental to a lot of the species we have tamed.
Sheeps would be likely to go extincts and their nasty predators like wolves would multiply, to the point that it would make some mountainous regions very dangerous for people to live in. Same is true about goats, except their risk of extinction is much smaller since they have better natural defenses than sheeps do.
Cows would see their population decrease considerably. partly because they would have to be hunted in order to stop them from entering fields (now necessary to feed ourselves, remember) since that is where they would find fitting nurishment. Also, before being tamed, cows had a very low fertility rate, possibly. It is not hard to see why since giving birth is very hard for a cow and often results in the newborn being stuck midway if there is no outside intervention. In the end, both newborn and mother die.
Chickens would possibly cause the same problem sheeps would, and would considerably increase the fox population. Turkeys, like goats, would suffer less however.

Oh, and let's also not mention the fact that animals are used for more than just food. Infact, we use them a lot to produce fertilizer, so even if we would switch to vegan diets only, we'd still need some animals.

My mom is a vegan

We're in an age where most foods are fucked and messed with before they end up on the food markets, going Vegan is a sound healthy lifestyle.

GMO food
Food sprayed with anti pesticides
Animals forcefed with antibiotics and steroids for optimal growth
Cruel treatment of animals

Even if you dont wanna go Vegan, cut down on meat and processed foods, take into consideration how much meat, fruits and vegetables your ancestors ate, il bet you meat was a luxury back then, today meat is the main course of the meal for most westerners.

Inb4 muh B12 or where do i get my protein, the cow you ate was forcefed B12, Bacteria 12 doesnt live on the graze fields of most farms due to the fact that we've upped our hygienic standards and also anti pesticides.

No its not good for you, it causes inflammation

Given the amount of methane in the atmosphere from unnaturally high livestock populations, that's a good thing

From an environmental stand point they don't. There is a lot of slash and burn of the rainforest to grow all that ball-shrinking soy. Almonds are a bad vegan crop too - they are really thirsty and didn't help during droughts in Cali.

>insects as protein source
The whole "let's eat insects" thing is a misunderstanding though. The main use for a large production of insect "meat" would be to feed poultry and other birds (which is for now impossible due to some crappy and unfitting regulation)

What makes you say that?

>Le saturated fat is good =)
Everything works better when balanced.

It's true

I doubt the two years made that much fucking difference.

I was a lineman and wrestler in highschool and I really doubt that I'd be some sort of weak run if I'd started two years earlier.

10kg of plant matter required to produce 1kg animal matter.

Tell me again about the environment

Homo sapiens sapiens ARE animals.
Satan doesn't exist.

this, we eat to much meat, I don't think its should be cut out of our diets. meat is good for us and we evolved to eat it. but we have an over supply now, if we ate less then we would be healthy, there would be less animal crulty and the enviromnet would benefit.

>getting all autistic because of a joke

Are you one of those muh german heritage Americans?

>Morals
SPOOOOKS FUUUCK FGHHGSHAGHGHGH SPLERG SPEEERRRGGG REEEEEEEEEEEEE SPPOOOOOKKKS

Had a Vegan professor in college. He worked for 10 years refining a moral theory for Veganism. Basically went like this with 10 minutes of fluff about how cute animals are:

1. Set moral standard for all things
2. Show animals can't be ranked morally by intelligence
3. Expand to being unable to rank any animal over another morally
4. Ask unanswerable question: Find a morally relevant difference between your dog and a pig that justifies eating the pig
5. can't answer? you lost

I responded with humans are animals, all animals follow their natural eating habits, i.e herb/carn/omni, and humans have been shown to naturally omnivorous.
Find a morally relevant difference between humans and other animals that lets us go against out natural inclination to be omnivorous.

Prof said "I'll get back to you on that one" and continued taking questions from the audience about how morally superior they were.

tl;dr Vegan crowd is just another cult. no red-pilling to be done. cults are immune to facts.

yes meat and veggies should0 be balanced.

but meats saturated fats help produce testosterone, which makes men men.

and not vegan faggot women.

What do you think they feed animals with?
One way or another you're taking up farmland.

>10kg of plant matter required to produce 1kg animal matter.

The cows I eat eat grass I can't eat.
Why should I give a fuck about that kind of plant matter?

You kids are fucking retarded. You have to eat weird shit and a lot of it just to get your minimum amount of b12.

Straight from one of your own nutcase sites:

vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/vitamins-minerals-and-nutrients/vitamin-b12-your-key-facts/what-every-vegan-should-know-about-vitamin-b12

You have to eat "fortified" foods three times a fucking day just to get your b12.

You think our ancestors would've had regular access to fucking marmite and seaweed for b12? No they got it from meat.

Spooks?!?!

Any fat helps produce testosterone.
Excess testosterone becomes estrogen thanks to this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatase.
Women need meat more than us.

>mfw hundreds of thousands of retarded 'vegans' still take vegan gains seriously after he expressed his desire to curb stomp babies

this is a bullshit, your lying to yourself, clearly plants aren't on the same level of consciousness as animals

If the animals are grazed then it doesn't matter because you weren't going to eat that shit anyway. Or maybe you were, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a vegan eating switch grass out there somewhere.

I'm sorry the cows are eating all your grass faggots

I can tell that story is made up with the fact that anyone with a basic education in philosophy can answer "moral agency" as what separates us from animals and allows us to go against our animalistic inclinations.

Nice try though

I don't know about being pure vegan but some people call me "vegan" because I don't eat store sold processed meat and in most cases I try to avoid any meats that are industrially grown, I do eat eggs that I buy from a local farmer, they might not be any better than any mass produced eggs but you know "muh feels" also I fish and eat the fish I catch.

also I could see myself hunting moose and other game and filling a freezer with it, haven't gotten around yet on getting a hunting license because expenses and the bureaucracy on getting hunting weapons...

>hurr durr user are u som vegan because u not eat mcdonalds/whatever cheap cancer they call "meat"

I think mass consuming meat is just as bad as not eating any meat.

daily reminder that regardless of what you think of vegans who do it for moral reasons its irrefutable that when done right veganism makes people way healthier and at a way lower risk of serious diseases

>Vegetarian diets confer protection against cardiovascular diseases, cardiometabolic risk factors, some cancers and total mortality. Compared to lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets, vegan diets seem to offer additional protection for obesity, hypertension, type-2 diabetes, and cardiovascular mortality. Males experience greater health benefits than females.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/

>A low-fat, starch-based, vegan diet eaten ad libitum for 7 days results in significant favorable changes in commonly tested biomarkers that are used to predict future risks for cardiovascular disease and metabolic diseases.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25311617

>This brief lifestyle intervention, including a vegan diet rich in fresh fruits and vegetables, whole grains and various legumes, nuts and seeds, significantly improved health risk factors and reduced systemic inflammation as measured by circulating CRP. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25637150

>Vegans have a healthier gut microbiota profile with more anti-inflammatory and disease-preventing microbiota
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4245565/

>use this argument to continue the slaughter of animals indefinitely

your a fucking retard

The grass and other anmal feed is grown on land that could be used for 10 times as much human food.

Are you incapable of critical thought

The "following nature" argument is pretty fucking dumb. I mean how can you really talk about following your natural habits when you're eating your processed to hell 'food'.

There's tons of shit about humans that is natural to humanity that we stop or improve for tons of different reasons.

The biggest bunch of pretentious cunts I have ever met. It's like being a normal fucking person is seen as immoral or some shit. "Oh so you eat meat? Oh your white? Oh you have pride in your country? Fuck off you're boring!"
I can't stand the cunts.

You have to use electricity to get through your day. Our ancestors didn't have access to that.

Please come up with an argument that doesn't take half a second to refute

Do you not understand the difference between arable and non-arable land? Tell me how much food you're going to grow in the America southwest.

being this dumb must hurt

the land currently used for meat production is more than enough to feed the world over if it was used for crops

He already blew that argument out though, so drop it. Plants experience pain. The "fresh cut grass" smell is literally a cry for help. Just because they don't experience pain in a way that you sympathize with, doesn't make it less real.

Polygraph testing on plants also implies that plants can feel fear, in that they start giving stress signals before they are actually being harmed.

Your perception of reality isn't reality, as it were, it's just the way humans evolved to interpret the signals their sensory organs send to their brains. Other life evolved differently, and thus their signals are different. That doesn't mean they don't exist. The fact that animals, mammals in particular, have behaviors similar to humans makes them easier to empathize with but it doesn't make their experiences more real than that of other life forms.

>the moral high ground

This is an overloaded meme.

They don't even know what morality is. In many feudalist European and Asian societies, people worshipped gods that were absolutely human in their appetites, were just as lustful, just as gluttonous. Nobody ever questioned "why" they believed in human gods, because humanity itself was the pinnacle of morality. Without fear or coercion, a person's morals is his people's morals. Around the time Christianity was born, in the middle east, some people believed in lawful gods because their country was a country based on trade and self-interest rather than social order; without a good social order, men would create laws and harsh punishments for those laws; their religion would be indicative of a lawful culture, because their gods would be inhuman and strict.

With all that said, a law culture would have to imply some sort of relative boundary. They'd have to make exceptions to laws like "Thou shalt not murder, but killing animals is okay" or "Thou shalt not steal, but taxation is okay". A lawful culture always makes an arbitrary distinction between right and wrong, and the distinction is always based on some obscure code like "the non aggression principle".

In a social culture, morality is relative. It might very well be real to the people, but that's like property; if I claim something, and others respect that claim, then it makes my claim real; however, outsiders might not respect my claim. Morality, like property, reflects individual values and social respect for those values.

The killing of animals is thus only immoral to people who value their lives of animals.

cont'd

...

>tell true story about idiot prof
>end saying you can't argue with vegans
>lelwhyulyin

thanks for proving my point

idgaf I wasn't a phil major
His whole theory hinged on asking an unanswerable question at the end, which is lazy so I gave him and equally unanswerable one.
He gives a moral difference for us go "against nature", I can use the same difference to answer his question.
Wasn't trying to be right was just pointing out his theory was weak.

>he thinks cows are fed with grass
What is this? The 1800's?

Cows are fed sow, hay, grain, and occasionally chickenshit. Even if they did eat only grass in some organic freerange wetdream they're still taking up a huge portion of what could have been arable farmland.

>thinking most grass fields are natural and not deforested, therefore could be used for farming human crops in a much smaller area
>ignoring non-grazed livestock

opinions discarded

>people who constantly worry over their diet and make it a lifestyle are healthier than the average nigger eating a 2% beef McDonalds hamburger for lunch every day
gee color me surprised

the ignorance is amazing, animals require all that shit in higher quantity's you egg

you are obviously not a farmer

these people are making me doubt our future as a species, how can they not understand this simple concept that vegetables are less land intensive than meat.

Polygraphs don't mean much, user. apa.org/research/action/polygraph.aspx
But certainly there may be basis for a limited experience in plants, I'm not a scientist.

1) In most of these studies they control for that by eliminating people from the control group who live really unhealthily

2) Its not just that veggies are good, its that meat is bad. Its been proven that meat causes inflammation in the body which is at the core of almost every health issue. Its good to eat if you are a risk of starving or malnutrition but otherwise its just like shooting yourself in the foot because you are causing inflammation when you don't have to.

animals are more land intensive than vegetables its that simple. that's it, there is no other argument

Please tell me more about how cows are only grazed on non-arable fields in northern europe

Those two arguments are totally unequivocal. He made a completely rational argument basically asking "By what and how do we determine what is an is not moral to kill in the animal kingdom?" He rightly concluded that there was no logical criteria in which to judge which animals are up for the chopping block or not. In order to not be illogical you must either say that the killing and eating of all animal life is justified or none of it is.

>The grass and other anmal feed is grown on land that could be used for 10 times as much human food.

Not every place is a fucking plain, you can't really grow shit on the Alps.

If my electricity shut off tomorrow I'd be alive and could still live. I have deer everywhere, and tons of land to grow food.

>thinking most grass fields are natural and not deforested
In the United States this is largely true. The Midwest and Southwest were not deforested by any modern humans and are where effectively all the cattle ranches in the country are located.

>ignoring non-grazed livestock
You're attacking a point I haven't made based on assumptions about my positions.

>In most of these studies they control for that by eliminating people from the control group who live really unhealthily
broofs?
who are they comparing who with? what with what?

I'm sure you're full of shit on the second point also, but I'm not a nutritionist - just a regular joe meself who cares very little for this shite

>plants can perceive pain like humans
>do not have a brain
fuck are you on about

sure but that ignores the fact that is not the case with the majority of where cattle is raised. Deforestation in order to supply the world's demand for hamburgers is a huge issue.

>perfect place to grow vegetables in the deluded mind of a vegan

So you've accepted my propostion that living a lifestyle incorporating modern technology is bad because our ancestors didn't have it, based on your idea that veganism is bad because you may require a fortified food to avoid deficiency in B12?

Good to know.

Jainism = poo veganism

>they have the moral highground
is that the new term for dementia?

Why exactly should I give a fuck about that when I was talking about my personal case where that's not relevant?

Is the majority of cattle grazed on the alps, or on flat plains?

What? I'm saying a vegan would be fucked in any kind of collapse they wouldn't get any of their required nutrients.

Most vegans are lib yards, but the rare red pilled vegans know hitler was vegetarian and was about to out law hunting and killing animals for meat before the war started. Also gladiators we're vegan to enhance their strength. People who say vegans are weak had never met a red pilled vegan.

Are you mentally retarded? We use a shit ton of land/crops just to feed these goddamn stupid beasts. More than it would take just to grow that food for ourselves.

True, but so would most people. Rarely any one hunts most people buy pre packaged meat

All of the cattle I'm eating is, yes.

There's a logical reason just not a consistent one. Western society doesn't eat animals that had a more beneficial use than food.
That's why is uncouth in the west to eat dog, cat, horse, etc.

I also don't have to reach your all or none conclusion unless I'm arguing within parameters set up like the prof did by excluding moral ageny with primate proto-morality iirc and ignoring social contract answers.

By nature isn't a great argument but if someone wants to set arbitrary parameters on an argument I try work within them.

So in this "collapse" of yours, some foods are available to everyone but some aren't.

read the studies retard

Also, people switching to vegetarianism could cause hundreds of billions of dollars in lost profits for the meat industry, anytime there is a study published showing meat is bad if they used bad methodology it would be torn apart.

On pubmed other people who have been published there can make public comments on papers that show up under the abstract. If any of these had flawed methodologies they would have been called out already by pro-meat industry researchers and you would see the comments but there are not any negative comments.

What are you talking about? I'm saying I can get my required nutrients all locally.

>alps

nigga what's more likely to have cattle graze on? A flat plain full of grass or mostly rocky terrain?

>That's why is uncouth in the west to eat horse

this isn't to do with you

are you retarded?

people living in cities cannot. does that mean living in a city is wrong?

So anyway, if it's a question of morals, then it's really up to you and the people who respect you (your fellows).

That's why I still eat meat.

If it's a question of biology:

A lot of vegans will often say "We have the teeth of herbivores" or "We have the intestines of herbivores".

Cats have really long intestines, while dogs have short ones, and but both animals eat meat.
Not all meat eaters are biologically equipped to be predators; not all plant eaters are biologically equipped to be prey. The dichotomy of predator-vs-prey works in tandem; the animals survive because they are meant to be fed on. Take for example the gorilla who feeds on plants; this big animal can easily kill a large animal in a few quick blows, but that doesn't mean it should.
Likewise, we aren't as strong, we're not as fast, we have no claws, and we don't bite; we're not explicit predators; we aren't biologically fit to kill on the same level as an animal like a lion. But, as seen with many bushmen in Africa, we have the ability to conserve energy, and that is wonderful for hunting, because that means we waste less energy in the hunt. We have specifically evolved for hunting, BECAUSE we have adapted a way to conserve energy. If we ate berries and grazed on the grass, we would have no reason to conserve energy, as there'd be plenty of energy to eat. Such an adaptation is indicative of carnivorous behavior.
Humans are the only primates that have the most stress at the front of the jaw. Gibbons exhibit more stress at the front of the jaw as well, and they also eat more meat than most other primates.
A lot of vegans will say "But we have the same teeth as herbivores". That's not strictly true. Our teeth is common among primates, even though they are flatter (and we consume MORE meat). Pig and cows are genetically MORE related to lions than they are to humans, because those herbivores evolved on a different clade altogether. Primates evolved on the same branch as rodents.

People have done it. Meat is only supposed to be 10% of our diet. We developed only to eat it in winter to survive when the plants died.

one pound of beef takes more than 400 gallons of water to produce.

Wikipedia says it's not so simple:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_in_crustaceans

sounds pretty natural to me

What happens to the water that makes it disappear?

an inconsistent ethical framework is not a logical one.

>that's why is uncouth in the west to eat dog, cat, horse, etc.
So you'd argue that it's just as moral to eat these things as any other animal? Also what about primates? And furthermore humans.

I really don't think "show me an ethical framework where this makes any sense" is some sort of arbitrary parameter voodoo.

what about veal? Maybe we should eat veal instead.

You can walk out of a city

Durr

Fish>Exotic meats>Chicken>Beef>Pork>Other exotic meats
Anyone who disagrees is a shill.
Dark greens>BROccoli>Tomato>Avocado>Nuts>Berries>Seeds>Banana>Other fruits>Lettuce
Anyone who disagrees is degenerate.
Water>Everything else
Anyone who disagrees is reddit incarnate.

It's just posturing.

There's little benefit to ever be gained from veganism regarding health or "muh environment", so it all boils down to personal ethics of not wanting to eat other sentient beings.

Beyond that, veganism is retarded. The same "health benefits" can usually be obtained by simply reducing dairy to a minimum, not eating shitty processed carbs, and eating more green vegetables. Lots of vegans die early, I've know quite a few who sadly did not make it anywhere near as long as the vegan community would tell you they would.

You want to see some proof? Look up Jameth Sheridan's death - his own company covered it up for 6 FUCKING MONTHS because they KNEW that a raw food vegan who was supposed to be "disease-proof" dying of cancer at age 46 would fuck their shit up. I've known 4 other vegans who died young and have known of others who also got cancer, MS, and other shitty diseases, so anyone who claims it'll prevent ANYTHING bad from happening is a fucking liar and a con artist.

Go vegan for personal purity ethics only, since that's the only remotely valid reason, the health/environmental shit is a fucking crock.

genuinely forces one contemplating

In which case there would be nowhere near enough food to sustain most of the population in this breakdown of yours

seeds are super healthy m8

>here's little benefit to ever be gained from veganism regarding health or "muh environment"
The meat industry produces more pollution than all of the cars in the world, annually. I didn't bother to read the rest of your bullshit

>the health/environmental shit is a fucking crock.

see

I didn't say they aren't.

No redpills to find there. It's all true, since I went vegan and turned from fat to fit. Pretty fit actually, I'm way more ative. As if animal products seem to dull the mind, make you lazy. Honestly, I still don't really care about animal lives, it started as an experiment to see if it's actually worth it, and it is. You think about what you eat and learn to dose things. Micro-managing my diet, sort of.
Started 3 years ago and in that time I had ran 3 marathons, got a blue belt in taekwondo, learned to jack off without using hands and strangled close to 200 ducks for fun.

they dont process oain and suffering though at all, even if they process the same signal. You are actually retarded if you dont understand the difference.

superior veggie towers is the future
why grow food on the land if you can grow it upwards ?

veganism will win eventually.

Yep, just like a vegan, when confronted with anything that disagrees with their bullshit pseudoscience, they say "Invalid, not reading", because they can't handle the fucking truth.

So be it, you're just like the rest, never open to anything that challenges your religion of veganism.

Cherrypicking is fun, isn't it?

Do vegans shit clovers?

becuase we can have huge automated, already existing capital (tractors), that can run over them right now?

moralfags are already at the bottom.

>and strangled close to 200 ducks for fun
wat

>veganism will win eventually.

I doubt those towers will stop my neighbor from having cows m8

Plus, why doesn't such a tower exist already? I'm sure there are some vegan richfags that'd love to prove how efficient their dietbeingthecenteroftheirentirebeing is.

there are a few problems with it

>not enough calories in a meal
>B12 and fatty acids are hard to obtain
>protein source is questionable
>cost, some veggies cost alot depends on the season
>vegan gainers are questionable too, because its known that most gainers use PED's or steroids

other than that i think its also not good for your bowl, you shit a ton. but its a personal opinion

Plants feel pain

That isn't the point, the point is a vegan would be forced to abandon their stupid "morals" just to live off local foods. That's for all the vegans that act like its normal or healthier or what was "intended".

What are they fucking leprechauns?

>So you'd argue that it's just as moral to eat these things as any other animal? Also what about primates? And furthermore humans.
Yes to everything up to humans.

And the parameter is we don't eat other humans.

That's it, that's the only moral line.

>and strangled close to 200 ducks for fun.
Thanks for the pasta

All the pain in the world doesn't mean shit if you aren't Conscious.
And plants are nowhere near being conscious.

I'm not cherry-picking you stupid cuck, almost all of the published research shows its way healthier.

There is no moral argument for vegetarianism and veganism. Plants eat animals you ever check the ingredients of fertilizer and soil nutrients they all contain bone marrow even the organic ones.

Plants are sentient, they have feelings emotions and experience pain

>even cats and dogs

Vietnamese detected.

You realize that consciousness is just a meme, right?

Fuck vegans. I kill my own meat.

>being this delusional

>"muh environment"

-"Animal agriculture is responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions, more than the combined exhaust from all transportation. [i]
Fao.org. Spotlight: Livestock impacts on the environment."

-"Livestock and their byproducts account for at least 32,000 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) per year, or 51% of all worldwide greenhouse gas emissions."
WorldWatch, November/December 2009. Worldwatch Institute, Washington, DC, USA. Pp. 10–19.
Animal Feed Science and Technology “comment to editor” Goodland, Anhang.
The Independent, article Nov. 2009.

>regarding health
>vegans die

do you know the difference between an anecdote and a population/community/group studies ?
being vegan doesn't mean you're dead proof; it means you have greater chance at avoiding certain chronic diseases. math 101, why is this hard to understand ?

now let's look at the medical litterature and science: the only diet that has been proven to reverse heart disease (UISA's number 1 killer ) is a whole foods plant based diet (which is a vegan diet)
ornish.com/wp-content/uploads/Intensive-lifestyle-changes-for-reversal-of-coronary-heart-disease1.pdf
shouldn't this be the default human diet until proven otherwise, and the fact that a plant based diet can prevent and reverse other chronic diseases like t2 diabetes and hypertension just makes the case overwhelming.
a whole foods plant based is currently the only god tier diet in the medical litterature. preventing and reversing top 10 killers.

veganism is superior ethically, healthwise, and environmentally.

>greenhouse gas emissions
where do you think you are?

google "baby dies vegan malnourished" or something along those lines. just to see how many instances of this there are. if your offspring fucking die in a first world country where food is abundant due to malnourishment you are a fucking retarded piece of shit and you have no right to tell others about their diet you fucking vegan scum.
>moral highground :^)

A placed where the green house is more important that the white house? Maybe?

that's a concept for the future lids. eventually when we are out of land we will plant upwards.
veganism already takes less land and water than the actual model of factory farming.

Personally I love to eat raw ground beef. I wouldn't give it up. It may be genetic because i'm mostly scottish and they put blood in some of their food.

>eventually when we are out of land we will plant upwards
We're going to run out of fresh water reserves before we run out of land and building up doesn't help with that.

>"Growing feed crops for livestock consumes 56% of water in the US. "
Jacobson, Michael F. “More and Cleaner Water.” In Six Arguments for a Greener Diet: How a More Plant-based Diet Could save Your Health and the Environment. Washington, DC: Center for Science in the Public Interest, 2006.

>"2,500 gallons of water are needed to produce 1 pound of beef. "
The World's Water. "Water Content of Things"

>"Livestock or livestock feed occupies 1/3 of the earth’s ice-free land."
FAO. "Livestock a major threat to environment"
long live logic. long live veganism

you make it sound like global warming is a bad thing.

>run out of fresh water reserves
this perhaps we should stop stabbing animals to death for hamburger if we want to save some water then !

I fully understand where vegetarians come from, and I respect their decisions, but I simply enjoy the taste of a good steak way too much to ever go vegetarian.

Vegans are retarded, though.

>eventually when we are out of land we will plant upwards.

I seriously hope we'll have a nice shitskin genocide before that happens, because if there's one thing I can guarantee you, shitskin masses that would make us "run out of land" so that we'd have to "plant upwards" would a) neither care enough about the environment to do so nor b) have the capabilities to do so.

Depends cats are pretty disgusting but Asia can do what they want with them. Dogs however have been bred for trust and obedience if they are wild it doesn't concern me to much.

whatever
i just proved that eating a plant based diet is more efficient, with or without towers. (vs the actual retarded factory farming bullshit)

and that futuristic conceptions of food growing are favoring vegan foods.

I tried being veg but I'd have to be an annoying cunt everywhere I went and I really don't want to be that way

You can stab all the animals you want, it won't make a difference if you still have constant growth. Reducing water usage by 50% means it'll last twice as long but it's still going to run out. The only viable long term solution is aggressive population control for the developing world and if you go that route then you don't even need to give up meat or cars or any of the other things the UN hates.

>"I tried not to eat dogs but I'd have to be an annoying cunt everywhere I went in beijing and I really don't want to be that way"
t.chink

Dogs aren't a main staple of Chinese food

>and that futuristic conceptions of food growing are favoring vegan foods.
Now here's the thing:

Why vegan? Why not a parenteral diet that's going to be even more efficient to produce? Instead of all those different plants we could fill those towers with algae that'll then get processed to soylent bars.

Feelings and emotions? Do you realize the logical leap you just made you double-nigger? Kill yourself

>fangs

>don't even need to give up meat
>don't even need to give up dog ribs

you do, not only the fact that you are eating sentient beings who have the same brain as you, but you are harming your health with it.

good show
fair point

Hey look it's that average vegan who has weird skin color since he became one and wanted to film his grandfather dying over helping him to show what eating meat does to you at 98 years old and then went on a rant about how he wants to kill babies.

still can't argue with a chink who says this to you.

also
>meat is USA's staple food
no wonder

Meat is good for us so is sugar, it's a carb and carbs are our main source of energy since it's the easiest thing to digest and gain energy from because we can just break it down to pyruvate and join the citric acid cycle to create atp.

Recently a couple infinitely wise poo is loos I've listened to have redpilled on eating meat or the cow in general in my spiritual learnings. Cows provide so much for the family and community with their milk as well as emotional bonding, slaughtering and eating them would in retrospect, be a negative action; I am you as you am I, we are one and the same can be said with most wildlife we inhabit the Earth with.

An analogy being a creature with a large spectrum of emotion and higher brain power is like a complex software that our bodies have a harder time of overriding and ultimately not good for us spiritually and physically. Conversely, vegetation, fruits or other simple minded creatures integrate in our bodies more naturally and positively. I'm a meat eating ameriburger but it's def made me think more about what I am consuming and have cut back on burgers whenever I'm out. Sadhguru explains it much better me, not from some bs religous standpoint but just from a human one, fast forward a few minutes in.

youtu.be/yneyNx-SRzg

>le veganism is leftist fallacy

eat shit potato nigger
youtube.com/watch?v=0P8tPqneHoQ

If humans had evolved to eat meat, raw chicken wouldn't kill us.

What about raw beef and fish?

> veganism is not a left right issue
good, so government doesn't need to get involved

see

>Impossible to get fat from vegan food.
I've met pretty fucking fat vegans.

all the nutrients that you get from meat you can get from plants. you're ignorant, dude. read a fucking book on nutrition

some vegans do look like meth addicts and shit and those are usually raw vegans who eat very little fat. the non-raw vegans don't look like that

If you cut a normal person they will have a different response than an unconscious person.

seriously stop with anecdotal bullshit, it makes you feel clueless.

it makes you look clueless.*

>you do, not only the fact that you are eating sentient beings who have the same brain as you, but you are harming your health with it.
It's incredible how fast you move from the ecological argument to the moral one.

>but you are harming your health with it
Dietary science is almost as bad as the party in 1984 when it comes to changing the status of what the enemy is. I remember when olive oil was being picked out as liquid death before they found out their working theory on what fats were good and bad for you were incomplete. Both the Mediterranean and the Japanese diet have meat as a not insignificant part of the diet and both are associated with longevity and good cognitive health.

>My pain is better than your pain!
Veganism, on moral grounds, is a childish, narcissistic way to pretend you're earning some sort of mystical goodboy points with the very gods that they don't believe in anyways.
Its fucking retarded thinking that they're somehow saving anything.

In fact, Vegans are downright genocidal in their final goals but they play every sort of mindgame to deny this fact. The reason for this is that IF they ever eliminated meat/dairy consumption and freed all the animals, a pretty much universal goal for them, just about every species that they'd "saved" would go extinct for multiple reasons. First, no consumption, no production. Second, no consumption, no free land, no holding areas, no protection from predators for these species that have long since lost their ability to compete let alone defend themselves. Third, their general response to this is that they are being humane and allowing nature to sort itself out, while knowing that they're supporting real genocide on the very thing they're signaling to the world that they're saving.
Like I said, childish narcissists who often haven't even thought through their "virtue" to its logical conclusion

when was the last time you saw a store sell unrefrigerated berf? It will kill the human to eat it raw without heavy processing if you aren't able to eat it before the meat drops a few degrees. Same with fish. Wolves love rotting meat, the smell attracts carnivores, but repels humans.

we have fangs that can't bite through flesh very well.they aren't made for meat.

we can't digest meat without cooking it which makes us herbivores. carnivores are able to digest raw meat without giving sick

how do vegetarians stand on bacteria, yeast, are they animal or plant ?

without getting dick*

You think 7 billion humans eating only cabbage wouldn't produce even more methane? Not to mention we would need to eat about 8 hours a day to meet our requirements we are apex if you care what your dinner thinks you are lame as fuck and deserve to die my ancestors are smiling at me imperial can you say the same?

>all the nutrients that you get from meat you can get from plants
How does a body regenerate? It gets the building blocks and at the right proportion you're in optimal condition.
How do plants gains their nutrition? They usually gather it from soil. Tedious task if we should do it. Plant have already stored the good stuff.

But holy shit, cows have filtered the better shit from plants. Cows stored even better nutritions. To replace muscles, you might need the parts of which muscles were built.

And that's meat. Efficient, tasty and pisses of vegans. What's not to like?

Eating red meat helped our brains develop faster. So eat more plants for electrolytes. Water? You mean like in the toilet

Coming from someone who's taken great delight in holding lambs by the ankles as a savage (black muslim) slices its throat with a smile on his dial... Meat is fucking awesome.

Like, this one time. This big fuckig sheep had a wiggly tummy. Now, consdering it was already decapitated and skinned, we were sorta curious. Sliced open its stomach and turned out i had performed my first ever c-section. The wiggly little buddy looked just like a tiny horse. very cute. Unfortunately some arsehole stole it from me and decided to wear it as a hat.

see this
youtube.com/watch?v=aQsDWaF1IWE

meatheads who talk about muh plants BTFO

Massive amounts of people are born, live their lives and die, without ever eating meat you goddamn jackass.

>seriously stop with anecdotal bullshit, it makes you feel clueless.
Not clueless, just refering that a balance of nutrition si way more worth than being vegan or not. You think non-vegans don't eat veggies? Is sugar non-vegan? I can make vegan shit that'll fatten you up in no time.

>we can't digest meat without cooking

Hi /reddit/,
I assume you're new to Cred Forums and as you may have heard we like to be very helpful to new members on Cred Forums.
I've found a board you may find more in common with and share similar interest.
Have a great day!

Except cannibalism is frowned upon by about 99.99% of the world.

moral highground top kek

This sounds edgy as fuck, but morality is relative. bring the hat meme

>What are incisors?
>what is steak tartar what is sushimi?

yeah he probably kill you if you eat meat in front of him

*giving dick

>Except cannibalism is frowned upon by about 99.99% of the world.
If you live on an isolated island where cannibalism is ok, you don't give a shit about the 99.99%
It's a cultural thing, let em have it.

>steak tartar

yeah keep eating that

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steak_tartare#Bacteria

These kind of people are just ignorant and has no idea how their body works, our body structure is %70 protein %30 lipids and uses sugar glucose as fuel. Meat has the idea protein to lipid ratio because duh it's what makes up our body and has the higher amino acid concentration, not counting other nutrients.
These people boost their ego by saying I don't hurt other living beings but the thing they don't know is animals are adapted to dying more than living. It just makes these people feel superior because they are making something harder than us(surviving with lesser-nutrients) for no reason at all.

10000 years ago humans and their livestock compromised 0.01% of land air vertebrate biomass. Today humans and our cows and horses and shit are 97% of land air vertebrate biomass.

Really makes you think.

whole foods plat based diet is the only diet that has been proven to reverse USA's top 1 killer (heart disease)
>ornish.com/wp-content/uploads/Intensive-lifestyle-changes-for-reversal-of-coronary-heart-disease1.pdf

this is the default human diet until proven otherwise.

Hermes Trismegestus says you can gain the power to create gods if you are vegetarian

magic powers, they already live longer than everyone else

I am for cannibalism. instead of eating animals we should just eat people when they die naturally instead of burying them and wasting perfectly good protein

>Wikipedia heh yeah keep using that.

>Meat has the idea protein to lipid ratio

true but it takes the most energy to digest, so best leaving your meat intake to 5% of total or lower, or you know cancer

Has nothing to do with the argument.

>I am for cannibalism.

whats the point? we already have mad human disease

>when was the last time you saw a store sell unrefrigerated berf? It will kill the human to eat it raw without heavy processing if you aren't able to eat it before the meat drops a few degrees.
I'm trying to make sense of that, honestly. Please explain yourself.

i mean your fat vegan friend is just one case (anecdote)
the majority of vegans have the perfect BMI, not all of them.
and yeah i agree, not all vegan diets are good, when i talk about health i mention whole foods plant based diet (no oil, no refined shit) this is the only diet that reversed heart disease.

>we can't digest meat without cooking it which makes us herbivores. carnivores are able to digest raw meat without giving sick
I suggest you don't eat anything raw too then. But you won't as you probably know some veggies need to be cooked to be nutricious. Some even processed. And the supplements you take.

Also, did you know that herbivores digest cellulose? Fun fact - humans don't. And don't start the fructivore shit, can you survive on fruit alone?

>can you survive on fruit alone?
But people can survive on meat alone, check the inuit :3

not all life is equal, mammals are more complex than bacteria.

we are eating animals who are sometimes even smarter then cats and dogs, and who have the same brain as we, so we know exactly how they interprate pain signals, and how they experience suffering.

%5? more like 30% with 60% carbs and 10% lipids. Yes it's harder to digest but gives you the energy back more than the amount you use to digest it. Plus essential/non essential amino acids. And if you say meat gives you cancer, even if you don't do anything that gives you cancer your body will start by itself so there is no escape, cancer is the decaying mechanism in animals, only we have it this much because we live longer than we are naturally supposed to just because figured out how to.

What's the animal IQ that draws the line between edible or not? Are insects OK? A really dumb frog?

so mammals, how about fish and chicken ?

You can get large amounts of protein from other sources then meat you retard.

Meat fucks your shit up.

The issue is that meat causes inflammation
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25548184
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24284436

Inflammation is one of the biggest causes of almost every major disease and health issue.

>Recent evidence from large prospective US and European cohort studies and from meta-analyses of epidemiological studies indicates that the long-term consumption of increasing amounts of red meat and particularly of processed meat is associated with an increased risk of total mortality, cardiovascular disease, colorectal cancer and type 2 diabetes, in both men and women. The association persists after inclusion of known confounding factors, such as age, race, BMI, history, smoking, blood pressure, lipids, physical activity and multiple nutritional parameters in multivariate analysis.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26780279

Its not good for you. Its been proven to cause inflammation and inflammation is terrible for your body. Stop repeating bullshit.

>for all intents and purposes, they "feel" pain, just in a way we can not relate to
if plants are able to feel pain, then so do rocks. And a car that gets smashed into a cube. And air getting squeezed in a bottle. If the fundamental property that gives us and most other animals the actual ability to feel discomfort, namely our neural equipment, is not a criteria for feeling pain, then all mechanical action is causing pain for something.

>A really dumb frog

>epidemiological studies

and into the trash it goes

>Intensive lifestyle changes (10% fat whole foods vegetarian diet,
aerobic exercise, stress management training, smoking cessation, group psychosocial
support) for 5 years.
This study wasn't even attempting to prove that a vegetarian diet could reverse heart disease. The fact you've so wildly misinterpreted it makes me wonder if you've been getting all your Omega 3s.

vegan gains pls get out

>for your body
Then why do you give a shit? Want to save a live, start force feeding the guy some quinoa.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterocyclic_amine

cooked meat increases your risk for cancer. i tried vegan burgers and they aren't that bad. i could easily become a vegan. The reason i am not one now is because i live with people who are not vegans. they buy the food. it's hard to be vegan when you're not the one buying the food.

meat is overrated. people act like it's the best thing ever.

meaty hamburgers are gross
chicken nuggets are gross
sausage is gross
eggs are gross

>both are associated with longevity and good cognitive health.
Swedes/norweigans/other nords eat plenty of fish. That's the source of their intellect and longevity. Mediterraneans and Japanese consume a lot of fish. It's not the soy and carbs they eat, that's fo sho

Meh, you will only get your fat tax by blatant sheer power (there simply aren't any arguments)

The first two studies in that post are not epidemiological you retard

They directly show the biological mechanism through which meat causes inflammation. All the epidemiological studies just conform to what one would expect once you know meat causes inflammation which is that eating meat increases the risk of diseases that are known to have major roles for inflammation in their etiology.

Also, its been shown in an intervention study that a brief switch to a vegan diet can reduce inflammation.

In pretty much every way that its possible to do so, its been proven that meat causes inflammation.

told status
> [ ] not told
> [X] told

>What's the animal IQ that draws the line between edible or not ?

place yourself in the that animal's place then answer the question: is it ok if a human kill me unnecessarily ?

if the answer is YES, then killing that animal is OK.

the easiest NO, is a the case of a mammal, because i know exactly how a mammal brain works.

shellfish is a grey area for me.

Lol, not really. They kill just as many animals, and most of them are demented from vitamin deficiencies.

Their food also tastes like shit.

The point is vegan lifestyle is not a guarantee, just as non-vegan is a guarantee of bein unhealthy. Might compare it to the remarkably healthy smoker and I can refer to a vegan with a healthy B12 level.

I'm not here to argue about the morality of it, just to refute people who say things that are easily proved as bullshit.

Meat causes heart disease and thats been proven even when you account for all the other factors

see >The association persists after inclusion of known confounding factors, such as age, race, BMI, history, smoking, blood pressure, lipids, physical activity and multiple nutritional parameters in multivariate analysis.

some vegan guys who hold strength records

this guy was actually vegetarian and experienced improvements upon becoming vegan
youtube.com/watch?v=Kf53m2HHIPs

this guy has gone years utilizing intermittent fasting daily
youtube.com/watch?v=dR1FCJS8DoM

cholesterol (diet) is the only necessary risk factor for heart disease

here the study engineer clearing it for you :
youtube.com/watch?v=9r_T9QU3aFk

also here is another medecine giant who reversed heart disease with a plant based diet
youtube.com/watch?v=m8yikz5bOEQ

Its not a guarantee but its remains true that if you want to be healthier and avoid cancer and heart disease one of the single most effective things you can do is become vegan.

pig farmers know for fatter pigs you feed them cooked food.

And what about other records? Speed, endurance, fucking chess... All of them vegans?

>tfw "vegans" tell you about veganism online using a computer containing copper made with bone glue

Keksimus maximus

there, there.

the point is, it is possible to have abundant health without consuming animal products.

>cholesterol (diet) is the only necessary risk factor for heart disease
Are you actually retarded? Smoking, lack of exercise, high blood pressure, diabetes, alcoholism are all known risk factors for heart disease. Cholesterol is not the only fucking factor.

That hippie ain't gonna stop me from having a good steak. What're they gonna do anyway, scream at me like a mandrake? I care not for what animals feel, what makes them think I care about what they feel?

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrik_Baboumian#World-Cups

2007 (China) 14.
2009 (Ukraine) 9.
2010 (USA) 23.

Wow, it's nothing.

I feel my reasoning for not eating meat is now just out of habit. At first it was because I was all about ""PETA"" and thought they were 100% moral about everything. Then I realized they're a bunch of crocks but I still didn't eat meat because I was used to it. I graduated with a BS in Animal Science and know how livestock function physiologically and I have a brief understanding of how meat processing works. I tell people I don't eat meat because I admire how physiologically similar livestock is to us humans. It's a dumb reason because plants are just as advanced and can even harness light energy.

Stuff like I'm completely fine with though. It actually makes me happy that we're able to use every piece of a carcass.

I guess I'm just dumb.

Not denying that, just stating that it's possible to live heathly without being vegan.
My only motivation to consider going vegan would be ab ideological one. Not personal health.

You seem genuine, I don't like killing stuff, but I do it all the time. I want to really kill the asshole blocking me on the freeway, but I don't, for some mysterious reason. I really think people should have some culture. I'm not ready to extend this to pigs and cows. Maybe you are a superior being to me, but I'm going to bet all in that you're just a troll.

i said, NECESSARY risk factor, stop hitting strawman faggot.

>possible
I ment "very likely" here.

this is literally the golden rule, google it.

It obviously isn't if all those other things are risk factors. No diet is going to save you from heart disease when you sit on the couch, weigh 400 pounds, have diabetes, smoke, and drink 12 beers a day.

Eating Meat Made Us Human, Suggests New Skull Fossil
livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html

No need to google it. It's between humans, not between watermolecules and starsystems.

>unnecessarily
Now reveers the role, animal attacks you - how do you judge it's unnecessarily or not?

Sorry Vegans: Here’s How Meat-Eating Made Us Human
time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/

that's the point, a diet that don't raise your cholesterol will save you. even if you do all that other shit.

debunked junk science
youtube.com/watch?v=cgmfRUwqGy4
youtube.com/watch?v=bEjgLqXQ04E