Catholic vs Lutheran

If you dislike Muslims then this alone should indicate that Lutheranism is a poor choice. Luther was a self-professed admirer of the Turks (a term he used synonymously with Muslim), who he deemed infinitely preferable to "Papists". I always wondered if he changed his mind after the valiant Catholic Poles saved his hide at Vienna.

As to SJWry, bear in mind that the Lutherans not only perform the Sacrament of Holy Orders (or whatever they term it in their church) on women, but also upon those who are openly homosexual, whether male or female. They are also known for elevating these women and homosexuals to the episcopate in countries like Sweden, the United States, Finland, and presumably others.

From a theological standpoint, they embrace a wide variety of formal and material heresies, including Luther's eloquent description of sanctifying grace being akin to "snow covering shit" rather than the Catholic understanding of grace perfecting nature, between 3 to 5 of the solae, a completely perverse Eucharistic theology which can only be termed quasi-consubtantiational, advocacy for contraception, abortion, and homosexuality which, in my view, is the inevitable consequence of their own founder's carnal and wicked nature - the list goes on.

I bet there is a German language pdf of Rosenberg's "Myth" out there on the internet somewhere, but the only link I had was for the English language version. Seriously the description of the Catholic Church that Rosenberg made turned my world upside down.

So much wrong and ignorance in this post

>Luther was a self-professed admirer of the Turks

Seriously dude, you have no idea what you are talking about, read "Myth of the 20th Century" so you can get a clue:

aryanism.net/downloads/books/alfred-rosenberg/myth-of-the-twentieth-century.pdf

Instead of recommending secondary sources, why don't you read the primary material: Luther's "Vom Kriege wider die Türken".

You're a dumb fucking sheep.

How could Christianity be true if Judaism isn't?

You don't need religion. You need to kill yourself.

(((Rosenberg)))
you some kind of funny guy?

>german
>Jew
There is no such thing

Jesus was a Jew. His disciples were Jews. Why shouldn't a Jew wishing to accept Christ as their lord and savior be allowed to convert? If you want me to be an asshole, I can point out that I share the blood of Christ.

Yeah Luther got bitter as fuck after Jews wouldn't convert. He wrote "Jesus was a Jew" in his earlier more optimistic years, then become quite toxic and wrote 'On the Jews and their lies". I don't hold it against him, many Jews conduct themselves quite despicably desu, and he expected them to convert when he fixed the issues that Catholicism had at the time.

This is interesting. One of my strongest feelings and motivations is a hatred for Muslims, Islams, and those who want to make Western society degenerate.

Enjoying the back and forth. Am actively reading.

You're a fucking moron.

...

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Judaism is a recent contrivance, established in response to the Incarnation and the conquering of sin by Christ primarily by Yohanan ben Zakkai. The Jews have no temple, no sacrifice, no priesthood and have been reduced to what is essentially a large debating society. This is to say that everything that made Judaism what it was at the time of the Israelites has ceased to exist.

Rather, there is a direct line of descent from Moses to the Catholic Church, the bridge between the two being Christ the King, Who was the Second Person of the God of the Israelites and in Whom is established the New Israel.

Thus, when one says "Judaism" a distinction between pre-Christ Judaism and post-Christ Judaism must be made. They are not one and the same.

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As I said I lost faith for awhile and thought I was too "smart" for religion. After getting over my edginess and maturing a bit I think religion doesn't need to be totally true. It shouldn't be used to dictate science or politics (which should be separate from faith, as I think a strong value in Western society is its secular nature) but instead can enhance one's virtues and help give a foundation and purpose. This isn't about science. It's not about DURR BUT YOU CAN'T PROVE IT. Believe me I've been through that mindset and it leaves one feeling hollow. There are things to fill that void like philosophy and culture, but I now thing that supplementing those things with a basic faith to root your virtues in helps in a healthy mind and strong conviction.

Well my father is German Jew and my mother is Italian/English Catholic. I take more after my father in terms of his large frame and intelligence (he worked his way out of poverty in Queens to become a doctor). He actually got a DNA test cause we never looked like the other more eastern european Jews (he has blue eyes, large frame, and normal nose). Turns out he's 85% Germanic, 5% southern euro, 5% eastern euro, and 5% turk (I know gross). I think it's fair to say this describes the path that was taken long ago to get to Germany and assimilate within it. A bit of history is that Germany basically told Jews to either leave or assimilate. The orthodox Jews went out to eastern europe and the ones that stayed were essentially assimilated into becoming German.

I only hate the religion of the jews not the race

To answer this question you have to go back to the 16th century. In 1524 at the age of 28, Menno was ordained priest at Utrecht. His first parish was Pingjum near Witmarsum, where he served as a vicar, with two colleagues. Judged by his reminiscences he was not deeply convinced of the sacredness of his duties, for he states that he joined his fellow priests in "playing cards, drinking. . . ." But during the first year he was suddenly frightened. While he was administering the Mass he began to doubt whether the bread and the wine were actually being changed into the flesh and blood of Christ. The bread and the wine in catholicism are bullshit. Lutherans are smarter than to think some fuck crackers and wine are the body of god.

You will have to learn to relinquish your hatred if you intend on becoming a Christian. Not for the Muslim's sake, but for the sake of your own soul.

We can and must recognise them as enemies of our people, as blasphemers, workers of iniquity, and disciples of the Father of Lies, and we must battle against their wickedness and oppose their hatred of God everywhere and at all times. Yet, we must pray for them, and recognise even in them the Imago Dei which exists in all men. Such is the obligation of all Christians, the promise we make at baptism.

>Why shouldn't a Jew wishing to accept Christ as their lord and savior be allowed to convert?
Dude, of course you should convert. If you ask on Cred Forums, people are gonna fuck with you.

Protestantism is a mixed bag, but letting women become pastors and accepting homosexuality certainly aren't practiced in every denomination. There are some really good Lutheran churches out there.

youtube.com/watch?v=nvH0p4iNbiE

to accept christ you don't need to join a denomination

Hate the Sin not the Sinner

The issue I've always had with catholics were alway that they only focused on their rituals and saints. It hardly ever seemed to be about Jesus Christ, always just mary mary mary. Biggest gripe I have how they still have a Pope to dictate how things are run.

Which is superior, the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus :^)

That's true, but almost everyone does.

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Thank you my friend I needed to read this. I've found pure hate to accomplish nothing but a consuming fire which always dies out into emptiness, the cycle of which I circled around many times in my atheist years. This is part of why I wish to follow Christ. For some they need overcome degeneracy, I need to overcome hate.

>Lutherans are smarter than to think some fuck crackers and wine are the body of god.
And yet, that is precisely what Christ said. You would be wise to avoid blaspheming the Lord.

Also, Lutheran Eucharistic theology is beyond convoluted and absurd. The basis for the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation is in Aristotelian philosophy, which the Lutherans apparently attempted to use as the basis of their own Eucharistic theology. Evidently, however, they did not adequately understand Aristotelian metaphysics and, thus, they essentially throw their hands up by saying that the substance of the accidents and the substance of Christ are both wholly present.

This is to say nothing about the fact that Lutheran Eucharistic theology is contrary to what virtually every Church Father had to say on the Sacrament.

youtube.com/watch?v=QvTCYTAZrmM

Indeed, and hate Islam for its evil and for its hatred of God.

I can relate. It is a sin which I am constantly guilty of having committed myself. It is almost certainly something you will have to spend the rest of your life struggling with, but you will conquer it with sufficient grace.

>doctrine of transubstantiation is in Aristotelian philosophy
>creating doctrines based on the Pagan philosophers
thats pretty bad m8

What do you guys think of the ancient "proto indo european" religion?

Orthodox. Personally I feel catholic and orthodox should unite to make a greater church.

But besides that Orthodox is the common form of christianity practiced in the middle east, eastern europe, and the east in general. The catholic church is when rome split from the original church after they sacked aconstantinople. Catholics are not inherently wrong but they feel their 1/5 of the patriach was superior so they split ( also they really fucked up relations to the other churches).

The only problem with protestants is that they rely on the government to recognize marriage in their country as opposed to other more organized churches. Also protestants preach from the same bible which was created from orthodox during the "apostasy". Sorry to make it complicated but humans are complicated.

Godspeed user, hope you find your answer

>ancient "proto indo european" religion?
is that some Babylonian mystery faith stuff

Luther currently. The pope is cucked as fuck and is not infallible. I disagree with him on some things but he's got the right idea.
>inb4 muh orignginal church muh heritage muh heir of peter
None of that is in the bible unless you have a very lose interpretation of Peter being the rock on which the faith would be built. Jesus never mentioned pope infallibility or any heirs to Peter. You could interpret this many ways such as him being the first pope(not nessecary infallible, nor would all popes be heirs) or such as that he would just spread the faith as a leader. I disagree with Luther on the whole interpret the bible your own way thing, as I believe there is a correct way to be Christian but I don't believe the pope to be infallible by default as he has proven he is very capable of lieing.

Why is it bad? Did St. John not equate Christ to the pagan Greek concept of Logos in the first verse of his Gospel?

What Protestants do not understand is that elements of paganism (i.e. pagan Greek philosophy) have been Christianised, stripped of their idolatrous elements and errors, and incorporated into the Christian patrimony. This is the way it has always been since the time of the Apostles. The pagans, for all their faults and sins, were not devoid of truth. They were simply devoid of the Fullness of Truth, Who is Christ. Men like Plato and Aristotle reached out into the abyss looking for Eternal Truth, and they caught wisps of it. They recognised that there was a profound Reason and Order to the cosmos, and they knew that peace and happiness lay ultimately in virtue. They did not know God because God, in His infinite wisdom, did not reveal Himself to those men, but they obeyed the Natural Law and made the pilgrimage in search of the Source of all goodness.

It would have been to men such as these that Christ descended into hell to proclaim the Good News. Remember that.

Only proves that our faith is much older.
Sky father=God
Other "Gods"=Misunderstanding, they were actually angels
Patrichary=sounds kinda Christian-esque
>inb4 muh sexism
Having a patrichary does not mean they valued men over women or thought of women as unable to lead. Christianity has been described as having a "patriarchy" but it is actual open to both genders.
>inb4 muh other genders
Why are you on Cred Forums?

>Orthodox. Personally I feel catholic and orthodox should unite to make a greater church.
That goes against the idea.

>The catholic church is when rome split from the original church after they sacked aconstantinople
St. Optatus would disagree with you. When he was battling the Donatists some 700 years before the Eastern Orthodox existed, he wisely stated that whenever one wants to know who is in schism from whom, one must use the eternal Cathedra Petri as the point of reference. That is to say, the Bishop of Rome. None of the Church Fathers denied the singular preeminence and authority of Peter's Successor. Not one.

Apart from that I don't really see how you square the circles of theological errors like Palamatism or the open advocacy of manifest sin like divorce and remarriage in blatant contradiction to dogma.

LCMS FTW

You don't share the blood of Christ, Khazar. Or Edomite. Or Hun. It doesn't matter.

The first step to becoming a Christian is ridding yourself of your perceived Jewish supremacy. Or do you not know that "God can raise children to Abraham from a stone"? Your perceived Abrahamic lineage, true or false, does not matter before Almighty God. "If you do not know the Son, you do not know the Father." Seek Christ earnestly and pray for His guidance and He will lead you towards right pathways.

t. orthodox confessional Lutheran who actually read Luther

>Other "Gods"=Misunderstanding, they were actually angels
m8 i heard that the pagans were lead astray by fallen angels after lucifer was thrown out of heaven and the pagan gods around the the world were actually the fallen angels who made man worship them

Catholicism is the true path.

Fuck the current pipe though he isnt a real pope.

But catholicism overall has a better culture, and is closer to original christianity. Protestants believe in heretic bullshit like predestination

Plus Polaks are catholic and will save the white race.

We also have far better churches

>like predestination
thats only calvinists

Im pretty sure lutherans do as well.

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White Catholics support Trump
The reason it's so high is the number of Latino Catholics, and lapsed Catholics who still "identify" with the religion. St. Thomas Aquinas would have voted Trump
gornahoor.net/?p=69

Hey don't misrepresent me. I pointed out the blood thing because some Christians have said Jews should be welcomed partly for that reason, and I wanted to rustle jimmies cause it sucks trying to do the right thing and being told you can't. I don't have ideas of Jewish supremacy. In fact I find the actions of many elite Jews quite despicable and are literally spearheading the degeneration of society. Desiring the extinction of western society/values with things like forced immigration, feminism, globalism.

It's honestly quite shameful. Especially trying to be a decent person with that sort of shadow hanging over you.

Converting is the only thing that's going to give you peace of mind, brother. Your anscestors turned away from the savior and therefore rejected all worldly peace, but that doesn't mean you have to.

Catholicism is the path, bro. It's in a pretty sorry state right now, but the fundamental difference between Catholicism and Protestantism (north and south Europe, if you will) is the stance on Usury. At least in principle (if not in practice) Catholicism is against usury. Protestants adopted Usury from Jews.

Nope; saved through faith, not through acts. Good acts that derive from true faith are genuine in that all the fruit of the labor is rendered unto him. Good works done to ensure placement in heaven is ultimately done in service to the self.

tl;dr get on my faith level catholicismfag

To gain religious doctrine. I sort of grasp grace now.

Lutheran here, no predestination we made fun of it.
Even within denominations there's probably fractures, but the Lutheranism we practiced was basically Catholicism minus praying to Saints or Mary(because what the fuck, God is all powerful, he has time to answer everyone's prayers and I don't need another human to pray for me)

Funny, I'm going from Lutheran/Evangelical to Judaism.

are you the guy whose dad is a doctor (schenk)?

Holy shit what's up. ayy lmao.

Guess you've seen me before. I'm just a cancer that won't go away eh friendo?

i'm the jew who said that lutherans in the US are shit and importing somalians into minnesota.

but like i said in that thread, ecumenical mainline protestantism is overall cucked. better off looking for an independent low protestant church that fits your values.

Catholic here, not a very good one. Lutheranism is catholic light, as far as I can tell.

Lutheran Social Services are responsible for importing all the muslims into the upper midwest. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole damned church have ties to those responsible for the cuckening in Germany.
I'm not saying my own church is any better. The American Counsel of Bishops is focused on importing South Americans and keeping them catholic to offset the atrocious birthrates of the native catholics.

I don't understand the multicultural push from lutherans, because they weren't very welcoming to my catholic grandparents. Luckily, there was plenty of prairie to build our own churches and have our own communities. Lutherans also tried to pass on german heritage, while catholic germans pretty much immediately dropped it and married irish.

Yes I remember that. Thanks based user.

No, I think the reunification is something needs to happen, instead if the 5 patriachs we will have most countries under one church instead of decivided between the two main churches.

>german jew
literally gas yourself thanks

Portestants are not as money grabbing as catholics.
You may want to neglect your old jewish habbits.
Christian jews: catholics
Normal Christians: Protestants

What are you talking about? The whole salvation through faith alone is as jewish as it gets. You can literally hoard wealth and not care for your fellow man and still call yourself a christian. It's bullshit.

Catholicism and eastern orthodoxy is the only choice.

Any church that has Apostolic succession but preferably Catholicism because it retained the office of the papacy, but the other choices are Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and the Church of the East (very rare though)

As a Catholic I also think we should reunite, although I would disagree on the nature of the schism it was clearly a mutual split and hard to paint it any other way, it also happened gradually without laity even being aware of it until the 1400s.

Cold is God's way of telling us to burn more catholics.

>He's not the real pope

Sedevacantism is retarded, he's not a very good pope but there have been far far far worse in the past. The church will live on, one pope is irrelevant to the history of the church and the power and authority of the papacy is greatly exaggerated, it's more of the mouthpiece of the church than anything.

OP you ought to go fro Catholicism because it's the church founded by Christ for the salvation of all men. All of the people talking about race, culture, and tradition (small t) are trying to convince you with material vanity. The Catholic church should be sought after for one reason, and one reason only. Truth. The Catholic church has an unbroken line of succession dating back to the days of the apostles when they first layed hands on those who would succeed them as bishops and priests(Acts 6:6-7), and would receive the sacramental grace (1 Timothy 4:14) to confect the sacraments and teach the faithful.

The Church was founded on the rock of St. Peter (Matthew 16:18), and the unity of the Church is held by the Petrine Chair that Sacred Tradition (2 Thessalonians 2:14) and the Early Church confessed to communion with (examples of early church fathers speaking of the unity of St. Peter in the final post). Just as well the Catholic church holds the Sacraments which only a validly ordained minister in the priesthood can confect (1 Corinthians 10:16). The Eucharist especially being a matter of life giving grace necessary for salvation (John 6), which St. Ignatius of Antioch called "the medicine of immortality".

And she holds to the right and traditional doctrine of justification always. We're justified by our works of charity (James 2:14-17, Matthew 16:27), working in perfect unity with our faith in Christ (Romans 3:28). Works of obedience to Christ, and love for our neighbor need to be distinguished with the works of the law that St. Paul spoke of (circumcision, kosher, etc.). Salvation, however, is by God's grace alone, and this should never be forgotten.

The Catholic church also participates in the ancient Tradition taught since the days of the apostles of petitioning the saints for intercession. We know that we're to pray for each other, and that the prayers of the righteous availeth much (James 5:16) cont.

We know that those in heaven are aware of what happens to us on earth (Luke 15:7,Hebrews 12:1), and that with the exhortation to pray for another (Romans 15:30), as well as the saints having been shown to lift our prayers and petitions to God (Revelation 8:3-4) that those in heaven not only hear us, but can pray for us as well. Remember, those who've gone in the hope of Christ are not dead, but living (Mark 12:26-27) and have been fully perfected in Christ (Revelation 21:27) their prayer for us is very efficacious indeed. Don't let what Protestants say about the "one mediator" discourage you. Christ alone mediates the new covenant with God, but our asking the saints to pray for us is following St. Paul in calling other Christians to pray for him. We intercede and pray on each other's behalf, but don't mediate the New Covenant as Christ does. cont.

You are at the wrong fucking place if you want to convert to Christianity, friend.

Try /his/, but an even better option would be to to not be ashamed of your heritage and fucking stay with Judaism you faggot.

I don't understand where this Mary meme comes from, I'm a convert to Catholicism and Mary is never the centerpiece of anything in the church other than the rosary, everything revolves around Christ in the Eucharist. Maybe it's a regional thing.

I'll finish this long post up with some quotations from the fathers of the early church.

The Church, and her bishops

Ignatius of Antioch

Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

In like manner let everyone respect the deacons as they would respect Jesus Christ, and just as they respect the bishop as a type of the Father, and the presbyters as the council of God and college of the apostles. Without these, it cannot be called a Church. I am confident that you accept this, for I have received the exemplar of your love and have it with me in the person of your bishop. His very demeanor is a great lesson and his meekness is his strength. I believe that even the godless do respect him (Letter to the Trallians 3:1-2 [A. D. 110]). cont.

>Mary went up bodily into heaven

>we believe this because a bunch of faggots said so, in 1950 (nineteen fifty aye dee)

Catholicism is like letting a blind mongoloid drive a bus. you're going to end up in a river,covered in piss

The Martyrdom of Polycarp

When finally he concluded his prayer, after remembering all who had at any time come his way – small folk and great folk, distinguished and undistinguished, and the whole Catholic Church throughout the world – the time for departure came. So they placed him on an ass, and brought him into the city on a great Sabbath (The Martyrdom of Polycarp 8 [A.D. 110]).

Irenaeus

The Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said (Against Heresies 1:10 [A.D. 189]).
Since therefore we have such proofs, it is not necessary to seek the truth among others which it is easy to obtain from the Church; since the apostles, like a rich man [depositing his money] in a bank, lodged in her hands most copiously all things pertaining to the truth: so that every man, whosoever will, can draw from her the water of life. For she is the entrance to life; all others are thieves and robbers. On this account we are bound to avoid them, but to make choice of the things pertaining to the Church with the utmost diligence, and to lay hold of the tradition of the truth. For how stands the case? Suppose there should arise a dispute relative to some important question among us. Should we not have recourse to the most ancient churches with which the apostles held constant intercourse, and learn from them what is certain and clear in regard to the present question? For how should it be if the apostles themselves had not left us writings? Would it not be necessary [in that case] to follow the course of the tradition which they handed down to those to whom they did commit the churches? (ibid. 3:4). cont.

Good to see the quotes I posted in previous threads are being passed on, keep up the good work user.

Justification

Clement of Rome

Let us therefore join with those to whom grace is given by God. Let us clothe ourselves in concord, being humble and self- controlled, keeping ourselves far from all backbiting and slander, being justified by works and not by words. . . . Why was our Father Abraham blessed? Was it not because of his deeds of justice and truth, wrought in faith? . . . So we, having been called through his will in Christ Jesus, were not justified through ourselves or through our own wisdom or understanding or piety or works which we wrought in holiness of heart, but through faith, whereby the almighty God justified all men. (Letter to the Corinthians 30:3, 31:2, 32:3-4 [A.D. 95]).

Theophilus of Antioch

Give studious attention to the prophetic writings, and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God. He who gave the mouth for speech and formed the ears for hearing and made eyes for seeing will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things, which neither has eye seen nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man. For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous, and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries and fornications and homosexuality and avarice and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish, and in the end such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire (To Autolycas 1:14 [ca. A.D. 181]). cont.

Thats the ultimate goal. You have to understand that the first pope to visit any of the predominately eastern orthodox churches since the scism in 1054, was John Paul II in 2001. So, theres a long way to go.

Clement of Alexandria

When we hear, 'Your faith has saved you,' we do not understand the Lord to say simply that they will be saved who have believed in whatever manner, even if works have not followed. To begin with, it was to the Jews alone that he spoke this phrase, who had lived in accord with the law and blamelessly and who had lacked only faith in the Lord (Stromateis or Miscellanies 6:14:108:4 [post A.D. 202]).

Origen

Whoever dies in his sins, even if he profess to believe in Christ, does not truly believe in him; and even if that which exists without works be called faith, such faith is dead in itself, as we read in the epistle bearing the name of James (Commentaries on John 19:6 [A.D. 226-232]) cont.

Intercession of the Saints

Origen

But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels... as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep (On Prayer II [A.D. 233]).

Pectorius

Aschandius, my father, dearly beloved of my heart, with my sweet mother and my brethren, remember your Pectorius in the peace of the Fish [Christ] (Epitaph [A.D. 250]).

Cyprian

Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence the first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father's mercy (Letters 56[60]:5 [A.D. 252]).

Anonymous

Atticus, sleep in peace, secure in your safety, and pray anxiously for our sins (funerary inscription near St. Sabina's in Rome [A.D. 300]).

Anonymous

Pray for your parents, Matronata Matrona. She lived one year, fifty-two days (ibid.).

Cyril of Jerusalem

Then [during the Eucharistic prayer] we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition... (Catechetical Lectures 23:9 [A.D. 350]).

Anonymous

Mother of God, [listen to] my petitions; do not disregard us in adversity, but rescue us from danger (Rylands Papyrus 3 [A.D. 350]).

Hilary of Poitiers

To those who would wish to stand, neither the guardianship of saints nor the defenses of angels are wanting (Commentary on the Psalms 124:5:6 [A.D. 365]). cont.

This is b8.

The Real Presence

Ignatius of Antioch

Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).

. . . and are now ready to obey your bishop and clergy with undivided minds and to share in the one common breaking of bread – the medicine of immortality, and the sovereign remedy by which we escape death and live in Jesus Christ for evermore (Letter to the Ephesians 20 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr

We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these, but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]). cont.

Orthodox Christianity is the best.

Irenaeus

He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own blood) from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own body, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. When, therefore, the mixed cup [wine and water] and the baked bread receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, the body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported) how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life — flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord and is in fact a member of him? (Against Heresies 5:2 [A.D. 189]).

Clement of Alexandria

"Eat my flesh)" [Jesus] says, "and drink my blood." The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).cont.

The Primacy of Peter / Rome

Ignatius of Antioch

You [the See of Rome] have envied no one, but others have you taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force (Epistle to the Romans 3:1 [A.D. 110]).

Irenaeus

But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles. Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189]).

Clement of Alexandria

[T]he blessed Peter, the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly grasped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? "Behold, we have left all and have followed you" [Matt. 19:2 7, Mark 10:28] (Who is the Rich Man That is Saved? 21:3-5 [A.D. 200]). cont.

Are you stupid, the assumption has been believed for over 1,000 years and was only dogmatized when it was called into question, even Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox believe in the assumption it just isn't considered a dogma of their church because they don't retain the authority of the papacy to proclaim such a thing as dogma. I don't need the descendant of a Anglican whose church was founded by a King who wanted to fuck more whores to lecture me on Catholic traditions.

Tertullian

[T]he Lord said to Peter, "On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven" [Matt. 16:18-19]. ... Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loosed, not what they shall have bound or they shall have loosed (Modesty 21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).

Letter of Clement to James

Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter, the first-fruits of our Lord, the first of the apostles; to whom first the Father revealed the Son; whom the Christ, with good reason, blessed; the called, and elect (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D, 221]).cont.

Cyprian

With a false bishop appointed for themselves by heretics, they dare even to set sail and carry letters from schismatics and blasphemers to the Chair of Peter and to the principal church [at Rome], in which sacerdotal unity has its source" (Epistle to Cornelius [Bishop of Rome] 59:14 [A.D. 252]).

The Lord says to Peter: "I say to you," he says, "that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church" . . . On him he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church? (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4 [A.D. 251]).cont.

Apostolic Succession

Ignatius of Antioch

You must all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery as you would the Apostles. Reverence the deacons as you would the command of God. Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop, or by one whom he appoints. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 8:1 [A.D. 110]).

Irenaeus

It is possible, then, for everyone in every Church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the Apostles which has been made known throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the Apostles, and their successors to our own times: men who neither knew nor taught anything like these heretics rave about. For if the Apostles had known hidden mysteries which they taught to the elite secretly and apart from the rest, they would have handed them down especially to those very ones to whom they were committing the self-same Churches. For surely they wished all those and their successors to be perfect and without reproach, to whom they handed on their authority (Against Heresies 3:3:1 [A.D. 189]).

It is necessary to obey those who are the presbyters in the Church, those who, as we have shown, have succession from the Apostles; those who have received, with the succession of the episcopate, the sure charism of truth according to the good pleasure of the Father. But the rest, who have no part in the primitive succession and assemble wheresoever they will, must be held in suspicion (ibid 4:26:2).cont.

You convert to a Pizza instead

Christianity was invented by G-d's chosen to cuck Roman goyim
>pillaged by german savages

(((You))) are trying to trick us into letting your nose go unnoticed. Fucking Kikes trying to steal our board

Tradition

Papias

Whenever anyone came my way, who had been a follower of my seniors, I would ask for the accounts of our seniors: What did Andrew or Peter say? Or Phillip or Thomas or James or John or Matthew, or any of the Lord’s disciples? I also asked: What did Aristion and John the Presbyter, disciples of the Lord say. For, as I see it, it is not so much from books as from the living and permanent voice that I must draw profit (The Sayings of the Lord [between A.D. 115 and 140] as recorded by Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, 3:39 [A.D. 325]).

Irenaeus

For even creation reveals Him who formed it, and the very work made suggests Him who made it, and the world manifests Him who ordered it. The Universal [Catholic] Church, moreover, through the whole world, has received this tradition from the Apostles (Against Heresies 2:9 [A.D. 189]).

True knowledge is the doctrine of the Apostles, and the ancient constitution of the Church throughout all the world, and the distinctive manifestation of the body of Christ according to the successions of the bishops, by which they have handed down that Church which exists in every place, and has come even unto us, being guarded and preserved, without any forging of Scriptures, by a very complete system of doctrine, and neither addition nor curtailment [in truths which she believes]; and [it consists in] reading [the Word of God] without falsification, and a lawful and diligent exposition in harmony with the Scriptures, both without danger and without blasphemy… (ibid. 4:33 [A.D. 189]).cont.

Tertullian

For wherever both the true Christian rule and faith shall be shown to be, there will be the true Scriptures, and the true expositions, of all the true Christian traditions (The Prescription Against Heretics 19 [A.D. 200]).

Origen

Seeing there are many who think they hold the opinions of Christ, and yet some of these think differently from their predecessors, yet as the teaching of the Church, transmitted in orderly succession from the Apostles, and remaining in the churches to the present day, is still preserved, that alone is to be accepted as truth which differs in no respect from ecclesiastical and apostolic tradition (On First Principles Bk. 1 Preface 2 [circa A.D. 225]).

Eusebius

While [Ignatius of Antioch] was making the journey through Asia under the strictest military guard, he strengthened the diocese in each city where he stayed by spoken sermons and exhortations, and he especially exhorted them above all to be on their guard against the heresies which then for the first time were prevalent and he urged them to hold fast to the tradition of the Apostles to which he thought it necessary, for securities sake, to give form by written testimony (Ecclesiastical History, 3:36 [A.D. 325]).

Finished. Make the right decision OP, and ignore the scoffers. They've been at it for 2000 years now, and nothing will overcome God's truth.

Hi I just want you to know I am considering quitting Lutheranism because of how cuck the local church is. Praising Israel EVERY FUCKING SUNDAY. EVERY FUCKING SUNDAY THEY COLLECT DENATION BY FUCKING JEWS, FOR THE NAME OF ISREAL FUCK THIS RELIGON!

No problem user :^)

...

this

so Catholics are the greatest degenerates....

Go Christadelphian. True Monotheism + true Christianity = true religion.

>prostestants
This kind of shit is what made me leave and become Orthodox. With protestants if you find something that hurts your fee-fees or triggers your theological autistic heresies(Calvin), you literally just branch off into your own new denomination.

That said OP since you're in Germany your options for Orthodoxy are limited so Catholicism may be a more realistic choice. We aren't in communion, but in my (personal) opinion, an ecclesial dispute (papacy) and some sort-of-sketchy stuff like Purgatory and Immaculate Conception doesn't invalidate their church, they're still basically orthodox in teaching and have full apostolic succession. I won't be presumptuous and pretend to speak for God, but I don't think he'll damn you to hell just because you joined the Roman side instead of the Byzantine one.

>trans pastor

>tranny pastor

I'm an American Jew and thinking about maybe converting to Orthodox. Seems most authentically traditionalist. Guess there are more than a few of us getting sick of this shit.

Best thing you can do is simply find a parish and visit a Divine Liturgy Sunday morning. That said, some parishes are more culturally entrenched than others - I lucked out and found an Antiochian Orthodox parish that has a lot of converts and is very convert-friendly, everything is in English, but there's another parish near me that does it all in Arabic. They're mostly an immigrant church. So don't get discouraged if one church gives you a cold welcome for not being Greek or Russian or whatever - unfortunately some parishes seem more interested in preserving their culture than actually sharing the Gospel. I apologize in advance for any of them you might find. We're doing our best to discourage such behavior at the ecclesial level.

I can't believe that there are people on Cred Forums who don't know who Alfred Rosenberg is:

en.metapedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Rosenberg

He wrote a book called "Track of the Jew Through the Ages" which is one of the greatest books of all time, see:

ia902507.us.archive.org/10/items/TheTrackOfTheJewThroughTheAgesAlfredRosenberg/The Track of the Jew through the Ages - Alfred Rosenberg.pdf

what are people's honest thoughts on martin luther and his divisiveness, his teachings leading to the 30 years wars which substantially weakened the hre and the amount of damage it did to europe as a whole?

He had some valid complaints but he was way too prideful. The funny thing is once he opened the floodgates for anyone to interpret the Bible their way, he started to get butthurt when others found different interpretations than him. Like what did you expect Martin?

Luther legitimately expected the Holy Spirit to guide everyone to the exact same interpretation as him in the beginning.

I'm from Huguenot background (French Protestant). If faith comes from your existence, your being, your essence, then follow your instinct.
Also make kids. I'm being serious. Having kids removes all selfishness and passes on the gift of life.
I hope you find the right path. I shall say a prayer for you.

We have better art.

...

Lutheranism is chill as fuck, like Christianity for small town folk. Go with that.

IF I PULL THESE THESES OFF WOULD YOU DIE

christianity would be useful if people didnt downplay jews and sjwism so much. last time i showed my parents the "before and after" may may, they said it was shop'd. i also mentioned the laws against christianity, they shrugged off and said "look at france, in the end, shit hits the fan and everything will be back to normal". they believe that state and church should remain separated despite being catholics. this wouldnt kill my drive if it wasnt them saying that though.

if it is for sjwism, i suggest that you stay away from christianity as you will grow very disappointed

Remind them that supporting separation of Church and State is an officially condemned heresy

they don't care but i will try.