Thorium Reactors

china is investing fucktons of research into it, we will see commercially viable thorium reactors within a decade

>fusion
nobody is denying that fusion is the power of the future, but it is still too far off

We have reactors that use up everything you know. They're called breeder reactors.

You can thank the liberals for the death of the US Reactor industry.

technologyreview.com/s/600757/china-could-have-a-meltdown-proof-nuclear-reactor-next-year/

Agreed. The real red-pill is realizing pol isn't redpilled at all. If Thorium started getting viral memed then I'd legit worry about this place getting shut down. Instead of memeing actionable technologies that solve problems we get unactionable bullshit that further demoralizes neets and mgtows.

I'm aware. My undergrad was in nuclear engineering. However Thorium is superior to conventional breeders. LFTRs specifically. More of pol needs to actually watch that docu I posted...

The problem with Cred Forums is that by the time anyone can watch am in depth documentary and swallow a new red-pill, the thread is archived and over. Really this thread, specifically the documentary in the OP, should be stickied for three months. Would legit change the course of man's future if knowledge got out.

I was unaware of those types, I'll dig into it.

It's good but where's the shekels to be gained considering the huge amounts of Thorium?

>implying even (((they))) could turn the facts enough to paint fusion as bad

Sometimes you overestimate (((them)))

Astute. Which is why we need more Thorium memes to combat the merchants.

I expected more from someone who's entire country was raped by Jews in WW1 via bringing America into the war in exchange for Israel, then reparationed to shit after the war, then genocided by them during and after WW2, then reparationed into paying for Israel's parasitic existence over the holohoax, and now overrun by mudslimes at their behest.

I can tell you don't have much if any technical understanding of nuclear energy. If you did, you'd know (((they've))) done it already with anti nuclear propaganda (which you seem to have swallowed) and again by burying LFTR technology.

In general only a shill will post with such confidence while remaining in complete ignorance of the facts, all of which are contained in the documentary that you won't watch.

You disappoint me OP, why no post the most up-to-date version

m.youtube.com/watch?v=0BybPPIMuQQ

>LFTRs

These are expensive. So are Breeder type reactors.

PWR is still the most cost-effective, most proven, and fastest to set up.

Either way the future is going to be Renewables whether you accept it or not. They keep growing year over year with no end in sight.

It's not more up to date, it's simply a second approach to red-pilling people and far less technically enlightening or even effective. I never post the second one to newbies because, compared to the original, it's trash and it leaves out too many important facts.

Do you honestly not agree?

If we rrally want to meme molten salt reactors into existence in the west we should probably put together a some usefull info and links that can used to start general threads, so people dont have to watch two hour videos to get the basics of what we are talking about.

Now you're just making shit up. Considering my undergrad is literally nuclear engineering and my masters was sustainable energy engineering you won't win this debate, friend.

Do I need to explain what that chart means or do you have some STEM education from literally anywhere to understand why it's irrelevant? I'm on a phone right now so I'm hoping you'll save my thumbs...

Its been a couple of years since i watched the 2011 one and i only just watched the 2016 remix last month, so i honestly couldnt say whats better. I will take a look at it though later to see what ive forgotten.

I agree, but the autists who have the gift of memeing really need to get all the facts and the documentary is the most efficient way. However later I will scavenge for infographs and see what I can dig up.

I think you'll agree with me when you do. The new one leaves out too much physics, too much history, and is too focused on space travel which is tedious and distracting.

I have never saied that thorium is any bad, i just stated that in my opinion, fusion of hydrogen atoms in some kind of torus, stellarator or anything like that will be superior in the future. And honestly, next to all of the arguments against the use of nuclear fission can be easily be dismanteled for nuclear fusion. And i am all for using nuclear till the point we can use fusion, wich is estimated to be before 2100

I thought most wind farms end up being fairly inefficient because of the cost of cmaintenance and maintenance of the turbines in typically remote hard to acces areas. That and the fact that you cant generate power when their is to little or to much wind means that often a unit will not generate enough power in its lifetime to justify thwir use.

I'm not knocking fusion either. However, no one actually knows when it will be commercially viable, and these estimates are just used to prolong our carbon economy and keep the sheep placated. LFTR can easily produce enough energy to power the world today, breeds other useful elements that we need, and is highly scalable and portable, not to mention inexpensive and inherently safe. Will you power a satellite, probe, or space ship with fusion anytime soon? Not likely. LFTR was literally designed to power a plane.

Bringing up fusion in a LFTR thread is just silly for so many reasons.

>Being this much in denial

The people in Denmark would like to have a word with you. Also Texas.

Thorium is for brainlets who don't know how the real world works. Thorium breeder reactors are the latest hype technology that is never going anywhere in any reasonable timeline. Nobody is building them today, and nobody is going to roll out any substantial number of them in the next few decades.

While it is possible that not all Wind Farms will be solvent, this is a poor argument considering the vast majority of them are.

>That and the fact that you cant generate power when their is to little or to much wind

Yes, that is why you place them in Windy areas. Higher elevation Wind Turbines are being researched and developed as well. The Wind is much stronger there.

>"Nobody is..." etc etc butthurt ignorant shitpost

technologyreview.com/s/542526/china-details-next-gen-nuclear-reactor-program/

"In all, there are 700 nuclear engineers working on the molten-salt reactor at SINAP, Xu said, a number that dwarfs other advanced-reactor research programs around the world."

Get on my level.

>In this Monday, March 4, 2013 photo, a sign warns people to say out of an area where piles of radiation-contaminated soil sit on the sports field of a school in the abandoned town of Yamakiya, outside the exclusion zone surrounding the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant in Japan. Two years after the triple calamities of earthquake, tsunami and nuclear disaster ravaged Japan's northeastern Pacific coast, radioactive and chemical contamination remains a threat as clean-up projects face troubles with organized crime and mishandling. (AP Photo/Greg Baker)

That may be the case in the future but currently your full of shit.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3324722/Turbines-turned-s-windy-automatically-shut-gusts-85mph-swept-country.html

watch.org/news/2010/10/28/too-windy-for-some-wind-farms/

This is an argument for molten salt reactors and not against it.

It's great and it's a pity that US researchers had to give away all their data to continue their dreams.

US Thorium reactors won't become a reality until you can deal with the stranglehold Nuclear weapons production has on energy in the US. You don't make plutonium with thorium reactors and it takes the production of fuel out of their hands.

On the global level there are only two master resources: Oil and Coal.
Ultimately, everything else is subordinate to these two, simply by the sheer scale of their use in industry.

how do thorium reactors work?

Thorium is 3x more abundant yet far less effective than uranium.

I'm a big supporter of nuclear power but thorium a shit.

Spoken like someone who has no idea what their talking about.

Try watching the documentary in the OP. It's a bit technical at times but hopefully you'll manage.

Also just watch the documentary. It's a red pill you need to swallow.

If you want to make a technical argument, try using technical terminology. Otherwise you just prove you're a jackass with no knowledge of the subject.

>The institute plans to build a 10-megawatt prototype reactor, using solid fuel, by 2020

Mate that is research grade. A lot of stuff is in research. You sound no different than people shilling about Fast Breeder Reactors.

The Plutonium Fast-Breeder Reactor in India is at much more advanced stage of completion, with criticality in January 2017. It has a nameplate of 500MW, which is commercial grade. Also a similar Molten-salt design with Sodium, but not a Ripoff of an Oakridge design.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype_Fast_Breeder_Reactor

Then on top of that they are also pursuing a Thermal Breeder Reactor with Thorium in a 300MW prototype design. But using Heavy-Water as the moderator. They are considering redesigning and switching to Fluoride Molten-Salt, which would essentially what the guy in the OP was shilling for.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_heavy-water_reactor

Thorum isn't inherently a bad fissile material to use, and its options should have probably been explored sooner, with less concentration being given to Plutonium. But you have to understand the focus there was to use up Plutonium stocks that was accumulated due to PWRs. They didn't know what to do with the stuff that wasn't being used for bombs. That is something the YouTube guy in OP fails to mention.

Thorium just isn't coming anytime soon. India is by far the furthest ahead with real designs at high nameplate capacity being researched and developed today, and even they don't recognize high roll-out until AFTER 2040, which is wayyyyy too late. China is just rehashing what Oak Ridge did in the 70s.

>What is Cred Forumss opinion on the most redpilled energy source available to mankind?
my professional opinion is that it appears to be the most redpilled energy source available to mankind.

>Daily Mail
>Other junk news

Mate there are +400GWs of Wind nameplate capacity. Nobody cares if a few MWs of Turbines were put into unsuitable places because of idiots. It happens with plenty of other things as well, like the poor placement of the Fukishima Reactor. Except misplacing a Wind Turbine isn't going to force you to quarantine an entire area.

India's overall plan is currently the best and most comprehensive out there:

PWR -> Plutonium Fast Breeder -> Thorium Thermal Breeder

But it will take several decades to breed the blanket to keep it self-sustaining for them to go about it in a big way. Which, once again, will be too late at the rate of Global Warming.

>youtube.com/watch?v=yGhEdcwXxdE

>Mate that is research grade

> Xu detailed a multi-stage plan to build demonstration reactors in the next five years and deploy them commercially beginning around 2030.
>and deploy them commercially beginning around 2030
>deploy them commercially

>Xu outlined a roadmap that shows that China is further along than any other advanced reactor R&D program in the world.
>further along than any other

>Shitposter had no idea what they're talking about. Posts some irrelevant nameplates and designs.

You've been spotted.

Advances in nuclear energy tech is good, but it will hardly make a dent :^)

Looks like a shitpost... Confirmed. Irrelevant.

I'll post a legit thread on this later. Now that I have a sense for how the shilling and ignorance will go down.

Can't respond to this much stupidity between sets at the gym. It's fucking up my routine.

Here you go

>Being this retarded

People claimed the same about Plutonium Fast Breeders in the 50s and 60s, that they would be our main source of power by 2000. Now where did that go?

Having a road-map and actually building them are two completely different things. You sound like an idiot living in a fantasy. The only ones actually building commercial grade Thorium Reactors or Breeder reactors today instead of just talking about it like you and China, fully acknowledge that their deployment is a long ways away.

I also know you aren't an Nuclear Engineering Major, because you would have already read those papers in regards to those types and designs. The largest contributor to Thorium research papers is India by a wide margin.

>currently available
>thorium
Try again. This time think before you post.

You just seem incredibly butthurt that nobody is buying into your product. Instead of convincing us of its utility, you proceed to dish out insults. Which is why I am taunting you. How do you expect people to take you seriously?

Thanks mate.

I'll post everything that's wrong with this argument in my next OP since it's popular among the ignorant/shills.

Soon we'll have a delicious master post.

Also if you have more arguments post them now so I know exactly what to dismantle in my next OP.

I'm butthurt now I'm BTFO m8 you got me

don't get me wrong user, I like the nobility of your idea about why we should meme to make alternative power supplies popular
however, is Cred Forums the best place to do this? consider how the media has showcased this place and how normies see it as a place where social outcasts can say whatever they want.

if we made pepe and kek popular, we can make thorium (or whatever energy) popular, but it will be thought just as a nu-right nazi idea that isn't possible, or that it can create a 2nd Chernobyl or whatever. You sure have evidence that contradicts that, but people won't look at facts but whatever Huffington Post says on it's article.

I wish you the best of luck so that you can help spread this, but I also hope most of the people involved burn all the bridges that connects it to Cred Forums so that it isn't involved in any future defamation.
just my 2 cents

It only works if the technology is actually unavailable. Good shitpost though.

Well thought out but actually Thorium is buried by the same people who buried natsoc, third way economics, state control of monetary policy, etc. Therefore pol is a natural habitat for it. Also, calling an energy technology supremacist just makes detractors look like morons, which benefits all of pol.

ONE, the fact that in order to get Thorium to become a major part of our electricity supply by 2050, we would need massive roll-out starting today. So it is not happening anytime soon, only likely post-2050. And it will only happen if we can't get ITER to work.

SECOND, fact that you are shilling a Thorium MSBR instead of a Thorium ADS which has vastly more potential being sub-critical. Fuck passive heat removal systems, and emergency containment chambers. The reaction stops IMMEDIATELY the moment something goes wrong. It never goes critical so you don't need to worry about meltdowns. This is the ONLY reactor design that is actually inherently safe. The only radioactive waste products are very minimal and have a short half life of only a few hundred years. On top of that it only produces microscopic amounts of Plutonium, so no proliferation risk. AND it can easily burn the Plutonium it produces anyway.

Plus the primary component, the Proton-accelerator is already well-studied and in use today at multiple labs all over the world. So it is not totally exotic technology like Nuclear Fusion.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerator-driven_sub-critical_reactor

Even most of the Thorium shills out there like yourself acknowledge that this could really be the future. As it has virtually no downsides and fixes most of what is wrong with the MSR design. The First ADS design is going to be built by a joint project of US and India (Who is also developing the LFTR and Heavy Water Thorium Reactors as well):

>thoriumenergyworld.com/news/india-aims-to-build-worlds-first-thorium-ads

awesome, have so many advantages, and even burns nuclear waste

>china-could-have-a-meltdown-proof-nuclear-reactor-next-year/
and the yanks invented it. this time the chinkies aren't even stealing the tech, it's patent has lapsed

fucking moron leaders

is it true that windmills use rare earth metals, but claim to be sustainable?

how can something rare be sustainable?

thorium use doesn't preclude fusion at some time

the key thing is reducing the cost of energy, since it is an analogue of quality of life

Yeah eventually fridge/container sized Thorium reactors will be cheaper than windmills to produce! Not just from a rare earth/copper/platinum standpoint but from a share engineering and resources point too!

Renewables are too expensive, and impossible to solely provide peak power.

I'd be down for a solar array in space, then microwave the power to earth.

molten salt with thorium mixed in creates heat which drives steam turbines

can control the reaction with beryllium

runs at one atmosphere of pressure and has a molten salt plug which is actively cooled, if cooling fails the reaction fluid drops into a container, no need for active cooling, and no danger of explosion

also can burn traditional nuclear waste, and is something like 96% efficient in using up the fuel, whereas uranium rods have to be reprocessed when only 8% is used

>Thorum isn't inherently a bad fissile material to use
300x more thorium in the crust than uranium

why not use it?

how fucking incompetent are our leaders when even india is more sensible?

thanks, ok if I save?

>The largest contributor to Thorium research papers is India by a wide margin.
the yanks did all the necessary research in the 50s

>but it will be thought just as a nu-right nazi idea
kek, stfu

what's ITER?

LFTR is inherently safe already

hope so, heard you could power a car of 1kg for 150 years, sounds pretty cool

That's 150 years of constant driving! We're way more likely to have recharge points and lower refined Thorium than the top expectations.

is that the problem? no real business model if we can fuel up for 150 years at a time?

Fucking of course save it dude I uploaded it so you guys could read it

Yup and that ((("banks"))) control a huge amount of the "energy" markets. Basically if you could power the whole of London with containers on Clapham Common then massive energy trading markets would be moot! I've worked trade floors as IT guy and it was scary how much more I knew than a lot of the very very clever people on the trade floors.

Watch END:CIV or "Just do it." if you want eco propaganda.

I'm going to have a quick look for Juden in the New York bombings. It reeks of hidden Juden. Thanks for bumping.

no worries man, of course there will be juden :^)

why would I want eco propoganda?

Just do it has a great scene in it where they rush a worker shut in at a wind turbine factory. Just reminded me.

END:CIV is anarchist and very much pushing we're way past fucked! Also talks about oil quite a bit.

if they really wanted to reduce consumption, they should stop aiding apefrica and let its population collapse

Yeah but they want Africa's resources and the debt slaves as immigrants. Pic related.

plausible

did yo uknow that when you sign a loan application you are crating a bill of exchange under the bills of exchange act 1886?

payee - name or bearer
date to pay - on demand or date
amount - amount or schedule
promise to pay
signature

hey presto, you just created the money that they then pretend to loan to you

>the rate of Global Warming.
Slit your goddamn wrists.

Yup what's great when those bills are then sold as credit swaps to be borrowed on.

madness

gas da juice

Glass of juice! Bump

2 gasses of juice!

>tfw became certified electronic technician in highschool
>currently at physics university
>literally every time I hear people talk energy, they are all absolutely wrong and its one of the very few things on the internet that makes me mildly enraged

Reminder that unless you are talking numbers, you should shut the fuck up. Seriously unless you have numbers in your post, you should just pipe the fuck down and just go discuss something else.

People who never worked in a powerplant, even if only for 3 months as a part of school training, should simply not discuss these things.

who are you talking to, and what are you talking about?

To anyone without a formal education, about topic that requires a formal education.

Cred Forums is simply not a place where you should discuss energy or reactors or anything similar. Every time any random untested idiot can just spout bullshit without consequence, everything is going to be wrong. Physics and engineering isnt.. art or some kind of bullshit anyone can discuss. These things are very right or wrong. And they require years of training to get right.

so your entire post is an appeal to authority?

It is not like anyone here is going to build a powerplant, I am getting out of there before I get involved, this is my thing, this is what I do, this is basically my worth in society and everything I am to the state and the people and everyone alive from 9 to 5 so I really shouldnt get invested in trying to spoonfeed people who can just continue not knowing anything about this tomorrow without any consequence.

Sorry this subject makes my autism come out in full, I dont know why but for some reason I just cant calmly read a 100 posts chain of "no u" about this topic.

Hah. I don't think he means that exactly, just put some facts and figures with these types of things. Or else you are more than likely talking out of your ass.

Thorium freaking roadways!

well alright genius man, if your so enlightened then why not explain instead of trying to shut down any discussion

>People who never worked in a powerplant, even if only for 3 months as a part of school training, should simply not discuss these things.

?

HURRR EVERYONE BUT ME IS DUMB BECAUSE I HAVE A PIECE OF PAPAER FROM TEH GOIVENMENT

goddamn, libs with that shit.

Sorry, i was referring to the non autistic things he said. Appeals to authority are dumb, but so is talking about energy without number. I partly agreed and jumped the gun.

Me too but now I work at Wendys.

>Can't get them

oh, you want some numbers? I suppose I can oblige you

4 17 95 332 14.778

The biproducts of fusion reactors are helium and deuterium I believe. Helium getting more scarce by the minute and deuterium being harmless and useful

>is it true that windmills use rare earth metals, but claim to be sustainable?

ALL turbines use some level of rare earth metals including the ones used in Nuclear Reactors, Coal, and Natural Gas plants. But so do your phones, tvs, cars, appliances, etc.

>What's ITER?

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER

It is Nuclear Fusion technology. A massive consortium consisting of every major nuclear-power research country+EU. A lot of money, time, and manpower is being spent on it. So it is either going to be the miracle technology that is going to save us, or it is going to be the disappointment of the century. We will find out sometime after 2024 when the first 2000MW commercial grade ITER reactor comes online (given delays this could be 2030). Some people insist that the design is already flawed because it using a Tokamak design rather than a Stellarator.

>LFTR is inherently safe already

Nothing that goes Critical is ever really 'safe'. The rule of thumb is that if you can't safety turn it off, then it is not 'inherently' safe.

Only sub-critical designs like Nuclear Fusion and ADS are 'inherently' safe because you can turn them off with a flick of the switch. Their reactions are not self-sustaining, it requires external output.

>ALL turbines use some level of rare earth metals including the ones used in Nuclear Reactors, Coal, and Natural Gas plants. But so do your phones, tvs, cars, appliances, etc.
you agree that anything using rare earth metals can not be described as sustainable?

Rare Earth Metals are simple referred to as such because of their lower absolute % as part of Earth's crust.

For Human needs they are relatively abundant, and are almost entirely replaceable. Yttirum isn't needed in television sets, but it is used because it enhances the color. Neodymium is used in high-end phones to give them a strong vibration motor. Lower-end phones can simply forgo them.

You can make turbines, phones, cars, tvs, etc. entirely without rare-earth metals. It is just that they are so abundant that there is really no reason to do so. PLUS they are easily recyclable and are fully capable of being reused, which is why they will always be in abundance.

Hydro and solar are shit tier. Hydro is incredibly expensive, fucks with the natural environment and is inefficent and solar is only good if you have literally desert.

Thorium? Renewables?

What sort of bluepillcuckshit is this?

Standard, solid nuclear power is the only way to go. It's the safest way to make power, counting by the yearly death toll of workers in coal stations and etc.

Windmills, dams and other renewables rely on nature, which is unreliable. They take huge swaths of land, destroying entire ecosystems and producing little power in comparison to nuclear power.

And it's fine that we are running out of materials to keep nuclear stations running, we will simply replace it with Helium-3 when we'lll get minning stations running on the moon.

Thorium will remain a joke as long as there won't be any working prototypes. Until then, keep it to yourself. Memetics "meming a thing into reality" can be done by will of a single man, we shouldn't worry about this shit.