What is the best form of Christianity and why is it Catholicism?

do you even realise the irony in what you said and the image you used for it. of course not, you're probably a protestant or an atheist.

Sounds alot like Protestants during the reformation.

Still heretics.

They are just kids trying to rebel from their parents in a: "Fuck you and everything you believe in and stand for!!!" way.

Do you even understand humor with all that autism?

First post best fucking post.

Greek atheists were different from atheists reacting to Christianity.
Likewise, anti-Protestant American atheists are different from anti-Catholic atheists in a European context.

Unfortunately internet atheism and the American Empire's ruling "intellectuals" colluding with each other means 99% of atheists in the west today are reacting in a very American lowbrow way, if they weren't born in degenerate and unfocused families without a religion.

>everything I don't like is Jews even if anyone who has gone outside or read a book can tell that that is objectively not the case
>the only "truuuuue" Scotsmen are a handful of paranoid degenerate loonies centred in America

KYS and find out.

>Catholic- formed by Jesus and Peter themselves

Reminder that Peter was the first bishop of Antioch(which is still part of the Orthodox Church), while there is scant evidence he was ever actually the bishop of Rome.

>southern baptist emblem
>Openly homosexual clergy
>Women clergy

This is a bait thread without any theological arguments supplied, but at least be consistent in identifying your opponents

Catholic: Faustyna Kowalska, John Paul II, Maksymilian Kolbe

Orthodox: KGB priests, no noticeable figures

Catholics are Satan worshippers. They are not the Christians.
>thinks the pope is God's authority, and must be loyal to the vatican, all kinds of silly practices will cleanse you.
Thou shall not have any other gods before me.

>Thinks relics and trinkets have special meaning. Big, fancy churches that look real pretty.
Thou shall not bow down before any graven image.

>Thinks confessing sins to a man in a box is talking to God.

>scammed people for money for centuries

>Jesuits, Jesuits every where.

>becoming increasingly secular, partnering with the Muslims

Catholicism is a counterfeit and a whore religion.

>Baptist
Also
>USA study
As for St. Peter having successors, several ancient writings exist from the first, second, and third centuries from St. Clement, St. Irenaeus, Tertullian, St. Cyprian, Eusebius, Epiphanius, Dorotheus, Optatus of Milevis, St. Jerome, St. Augustine, and the Fourth General Council of Chalcedon, ALL which make reference to St. Peter being first Bishop of Rome who later handed succession to St. Linus, St. Anacletus, and St. Clement. Some of the writings about these three successors conflict with each other with respect to the order of these successors, due to the fact that St. Clement was first offered to be successor of St. Peter as Bishop, but he initially refused it until the deaths of St. Linus and St. Anacletus, who took the role before him. Nevertheless all ancient writings agree on these three as being successors of St. Peter. So why do the Protestant reformers choose to ignore the writings of all antiquity?

antioch is a muslim city

>>thinks the pope is God's authority, and must be loyal to the vatican, all kinds of silly practices will cleanse you
Strawmans
>Thinks relics and trinkets have special meaning. Big, fancy churches that look real pretty.
Strawman
>Thinks confessing sins to a man in a box is talking to God.
John 20:23
>scammed people for money for centuries
Strawman
>Jesuits, Jesuits every where.
First generation of Jeuits were bassed. After Catharine subverse them, not so much.
>becoming increasingly secular, partnering with the Muslims
Oh I lafin from my "Catholic Iran"

>all that strawman
protestantism is literally "jesus is my own personal feelings" the religion

Most of the writings point to St. Peter being martyred in Rome, only a couple sources say he was ever bishop there. What isn't disputed at all though, is that he was in fact the bishop of Antioch, the city where they were first called Christians, one of the 5 great Patriarchates.

Correct, I am a baptist and this is a US pew study

>that orthocuck damage control
he left someone to manage Antioch, and he went to Rome because that was his final destination. It's not like back then there were plenty of people who could take the role of a bishop immediately without him giving them a formation. Besides, Antioch is a muslim city now, so much for the gates of hell won't prevail if we were to accept your version of the story

>eastern orthodox

faggots who adhere to retarded traditions and extrabiblical writings while appealing to non-divine authority

>catholics

faggots who adhere to even more retarded traditions and extrabiblical writings while appealing to non-divine authority

>protestant

there is only the church and the word of God

I think we all know what's going on here, anyone who pretends otherwise is another "deus vult" roleplaying faggot

Antioch is in ruins, but the Patriarchate of Antioch still exists, he just resides in Damascus now. Even though it's mostly Muslims in the area he still has jurisdiction over all the Christians in Syria, as well as the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America.

> best form of Christianity

best form of Christianity is reading into what Jesus said, and not signing up to some child molesting club, you piece of shit.

religion is cancer, evangelion helps people

user pls, enough with the damage control, it's pathetic

>but the Patriarchate of Antioch still exists, he just resides in Damascus now
so they are literally LARPing
>Even though it's mostly Muslims in the area he still has jurisdiction over all the Christians in Syria, as well as the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America.
and? Does not change the fact that the gates of hell have clearly prevailed

Cool story, too bad it's not an argument that Peter was ever the bishop of Rome.

>John Faggot 2
Sure did good with touching boys and addressing Vatican 2

>you need patriarchs who are international celebrities and holy fools that are known to everyone.

This is why Poland will always be cucked.

Even when you are less cucked than the West

>more damage control
if his objective was to be the bishop of Antioch, and not just be there temporarily to find a suitable one, he would have never left for Rome, especially considering that he went there together with Paul, which was absolutely unnecessary if Rome wasn't meant to be the place where he would have actually taken his final seat as bishop.
Stay forever mad orthocuck

You're the one doing damage control here. I'm talking about Peter never being bishop of Rome and you're deflecting onto the demographics of Damascus and Constantinople.

Catholicism is largely dependent on the Pope. Hopefully Trump or some other leader proclaims an anti-pope and drives our cuck pope out of the vatican. A frontline crusader Pope would be badass.

are jehovahs witnesses based?

>especially considering that he went there together with Paul

[citation needed]

lmao. You are the one who says "b-b-but i-i-i-it's not sure he was the bishop or Rome". I already told you how things went, and why Rome was his real seat. He was just in antioch to appoint a bishop there, it's not like there were plenty of people who could do it back at the time, so he took on the functions of the bishop for as long as he needed to find a suitable candidate.
Rome was always his final destination, to which he went with Paul. The only reason why he would go together with Paul was if he were to become bishop of Rome. No other reason can explain such a decision.
Stay
forever
mad

You made two mistakes, let me fix them for you:

>atheist - doesn't give a fuck about your delusion
>catholic - formed by a pope hungry for shekels almost 1000 years after the crucified jew.
Actually it's xians the ones that have perverted and tried to bastardise the european values.

>being this ignorant
orthocucks everyone

Or the Christians of the West follow the Roman and Hellenistic values
Take a look on the Christians of East Asia and South Africa and tell me again about ""Christian Values""
Fucking idiot

what does Cred Forums think of Bruno Groening? was he redpilled?

Why do Catholics refuse to acknowledge that Vatican 2 invalidates the authority of the Church's claims?

>we are the successors of Rome
What claim do you have
>we uphold Latin liturgy and centralized clerical structure, we also have government powers in Rome itself

Ok senpai fair enough, I don't agree but you have a historical and social argument, and theological.

>Oops the Protestants are converting more niggers and spics than we are, better drop the 2000 year history of clerical Latin language like it was a sack of taters.

>oops better chase postmodernist interpretations of Spritual Christianity

>oops better de centralize the church in Africa so that polygamous niggers can bring their entire tribe to Catholicism.

Wait doesn't that forfeit your claim that Rome is the centralized religious authority, and that your dogma can be influenced by postmodernism?

>No, also here's a Jesuit pope.

And that's why Orthodoxy will always maintain more theological discipline and cohesion than "lol I'm the body of Christ" Protestantism. And will ultimately outlast Catholicism's race to the postmodernist bottom.

Also priests should be required to marry and only monks should be chaste and studious.

top kek, not an argument. Prove to me that Paul and Peter went to Rome together. I'll wait.

Indeed, most thinking atheists realize this at some point. See dawkin's reaction to western Islam.

American Christianity is a direct result of Ralph Waldo Emerson's teachings.

Maybe because all those writings are fabrications of the catholic church and only appear in their sources but not in the other ones?
I think i remember a few passages in the bible that clearly warned you not to follow false teachings and demonic preachers...

Where is this salt coming from? Poland is a holy nation and produces holy people. It is holy because it is catholic. Orthodoxy is known for Ruskie-Mongol savagery

we don't spoonfeed here, this isn't reddit. Get a culture orthocuck

>this is what orthocucks actually believe

orthodoxy was cucked by literally everyone, from islam to communism. They are the first sedevacantists, and their understanding of God is literally influenced by islamic theology. No thanks.

You're right, if this was reddit you might actually be forced to defend your ridiculous claims instead of just spamming the word cuck.

Why are you even arguing over who got Paul
Paul was a major asshole and a hack anyway
His teachings were pretty much
"Dear Corinthians,
shave your beard,
dont masturbate,
also send me money.
Congratulations, you heaven nao."

Why did he hate beards?

>Catholicism

the supreme leader is a SJW faggot, no thanks.

>he does not waste time educating a nigger
>he does not spoon feed me
>therefore he is wrong
>>>/reddit/

>hating on based Paul
kys

by that logic every single american on earth is a nigger

He hated literally everything
He was the most edgy religious figure ever existed after Mohammad

Yah nah I don't need a magic man in the sky to tell me when i'm doing right or wrong

How do atheist harm any of you beyond convincing people to leave your fairytale bullshit?

>>>/reddit/

Right, because every catholic got together and held an international vote on who got to be elected as the pope so it's exactly the same thing.

Sorry, Luigi

Lol, fucking Italians citing Islamic influence.

You have no church, and the husk that remains, could not give a fuck about Italy or Italians. Or this history of Latin in the church or the importance of its own Capitol.

At least the Serbian church will always be Serbian, Bulgarian Bulgarian, and Russian Russian. They are United through common liturgy, not be some autonomous faggot poop

>if I call him a cuck or a nigger I don't have to defend my pseudo-historical claims

Still waiting on a source. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a source even within your own Roman-Catholic tradition that says Paul and Peter went to Rome together, so just admit you made that up and have no clue wtf you are talking about you stupid papist.

CATHOLICS, EXPLAIN YOURSELVES PT1):

Vatican I
>We teach and declare that, according to the gospel evidence, a primacy of jurisdiction over the whole Church of God was immediately and directly promised to the blessed apostle Peter and conferred on him by Christ the lord.
> Therefore, if anyone says that blessed Peter the apostle was not appointed by Christ the lord as prince of all the apostles and visible head of the whole Church militant; or that it was a primacy of honor only and not one of true and proper jurisdiction that he directly and immediately received from our lord Jesus Christ himself: let him be anathema.
>Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole Church; or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema.
>To him, in blessed Peter, full power has been given by our lord Jesus Christ to tend, rule and govern the universal Church.
>Therefore, faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith, to the glory of God our savior, for the exaltation of the Catholic religion and for the salvation of the Christian people, with the approval of the Sacred Council, we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman Pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals.

...

CATHOLICS, EXPLAIN YOURSELVES (PT2):

I think you get the idea. However, how do you explain the Bishop of Antioch, who is also (and there's much better evidence for it) a successor of St Peter? By the logic of Vatican I, he should have all the rights and privileges of the Bishop of Rome. Note, V1 doesn't teach that because Peter was Bishop of Rome, and it was a really important city, etc. or that because St Peter died there, or because St Paul went to teach there – the argument is that the Pope enjoys these privileges solely on the basis of him being the successor of St Peter, the first Pope, divinely instituted by Jesus Christ.
For doubters (though must Catholics admit this)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Patriarchs_of_Antioch
catholicnewsagency.com/saint.php?n=468
modeoflife.org/the-passing-of-a-spiritual-father-and-leader-in-critical-times/
newadvent.org/cathen/05653a.htm

What's wrong can't come up with a good response?

I'm shocked

>by that logic every single american on earth is a nigger
that's true

>says I have no good response
>uses /r/atheism tier arguments

Kys

There is no Catholic Church outside of Poland, you should have declared your independence while you still could. Jan Pawel is dead everywhere besides Poland, and he'll be dead in Poland soon too when the rest of the postmodernism catches up to the Polish Chirch. Look what's happened to Ireland! At least it's not as bad as Episcolpalianism yet, but it's getting there.

so it's even worse, because intentionally vote for a nigger

in the time you are wasting being a redditor, you could have looked it up and educated yourself. Keep being a schismatic cuck, your problem not mine.

I guess my problem is that it seems like the Jews haven't left a single influential force untainted. They try to subvert every single message so how am I supposed to believe that the Bible hasn't been severely edited and lied about?

I believe in Jesus Christ and I believe in the entire prophecy of his second coming especially because other mythological texts like the Kali Yuga seem to line up perfectly.

I just don't know which path to follow to repent, because I don't know what really is or isn't a sin.

antioch is a muslim city

I mean jeez louise, I just decided to check out the publisher of my bible and the guy's wife has a yiddish name. What is this madness?!

No, they're just doctrinally apolitical

Can you pull the trigger for me i'm stuck in a vortex of meaningless existence because I don't have a higher power assuring me everythings in his plan

Well at least king nigger had to run for re-election , pope is a lifetime position. Congrats, you're eternally cucked.

Is that why there's two chapters in Acts about Paul's voyage to Rome and his time spent there, and it says not a word about Peter?

Nothing more cucked than not believing in anything at all.

Catholics literally tell people to pray to a mortal woman who can't hear their prayers or help them.

The fuck.

Maximum cuck.

Wasn't back then.

together doesn't mean they travel materially together, only that they went there at the same time

>in the time you are wasting being a redditor, you could have looked it up and educated yourself. Keep being a schismatic cuck, your problem not mine.

In all your time calling me a cuck you could have provided even a single source. But you didn't, because you're talking out your ass and you know it.

...

Wtf I love Allah now

but now it is, and was even back when vatican I happened. So what's your point? The gates of hell prevailed on orthodoxy throughout the centuries, you orthocucks are in complete denial.

here's your (you) user

I don't know much about this topic but I know that God had to use cause and effect to create the circumstances and influences to create a bloodline that would eventually produce Mary, a pure, sinless person worthy of birthing Jesus. So she has something different and special about her as opposed to any other mortal human.

Fuck me, I don't even know if I'm right.

Only Traditional Catholicism is based. Modern Vatican II is cucked. Sorry OP. There is nothing better than Traditional Catholicism in terms of religion, the next best being Orthodox. Modern Catholicism, however, has many problems.

Witness exhibit A, which is a typically red-pilled Trad Catholic: youtube.com/watch?v=Z7nizgcVjUk

I'm still Catholic, but in the most Traditional sense. Read "An Open Letter to Confused Catholics" by Marcel Lefebvre. It will clear things up for you.

Vatican II's days are numbers. It WILL be reverted or the Church will die. It may take a couple hundred years, but one of those two things will happen. If the Church dies then it will live on as a small remnant only.

Allah is the same God as all the semitic religions including Christianity retard.

Islam is the ultimate red pill

Go lick your wounds papist faggot you got BTFO

Also have this for bumps.

Catholic religion wasn't formed by Jesus and Peter. It was created at the time of the split to east (Byzantine) and west (Roman), where the Catholics changed scripture, making the Holy Spirit not equal to Jesus and God, but completely separate. Also the fact that your Roman bishop wanted ultimate juristiction (now you call him Pope), while the Orthodox side has a much more democratic type of oversight.

This is called heresy you dumb burger. Changing religion so you hold more power.
Come to the light.

Except you can't prove that either.

>gates of hell
Watch it m8, it's only a matter of time before the Pope allows gay marriage and woman bishops.

God tested us, as he would test his Church, but we have persevered despite all we have suffered. You lot grew fat on gold and now are set to succumb to degeneracy.

what do you fellas think of Bruno Groening? was he redpilled?

>"i-i--i-f I tell him he got BTFO, s-s-surely everyone will b-b-believe that"

>every orthodox country is a shit hole
>Every catholic country is a shit hole
>Protestant countries so successful they are getting swarmed by semi-humans from the aforementioned shit holes
Get some work ethic fags

>what is seperation of church and state

Paul was not the first Pope, and Jesus never advocated for a hierarchy of the Church because we are all equal under the eyes of the Lord. The Catholic Church is a scam meant to tarnish the teachings of Christ and to derive power through the teachings.

Catholic Church says you need to work to gain access to heaven

Christianity says you are saved out of the God's grace and his sacrifice on the cross.

This is the difference and Anabaptist's were the true followers of Christ.

>Watch it m8, it's only a matter of time before the Pope allows gay marriage and woman bishops.
will never happen, even though you wish, you satan

>God tested us, as he would test his Church, but we have persevered despite all we have suffered
you put that suffering on yourself by sucking muslim and communist cock
> You lot grew fat on gold and now are set to succumb to degeneracy.
Yes we grew fat by doing charity all over the world and fighting back against all sorts of evils while you were groomed by all of them

So I thought about joining my friend in being a Baptist after a lot of thought about how cucked Modern Catholicism is. What exactly is the difference in Baptists?

>prosperity gospel
spoken like the true whore of babylon. Repent heretic

So it's stupid study, since big chunck of catholics in USA is latino.
You do realise that orthodox acknowledge it as well?

>if-if-if I call him a cuck a hundred times and bring up the turks and the communists, Orthodoxy is forever refuted

what a fucking pleb

>Being eternally cucked by organized religion

I'm glad I'm a Deist.

>sucks muslim and communist cock for centuries, literally bending 90 degrees to the most despicable evils of the world
>"n-n-n-not an argument"

Ok then, let's ask this, what's more important, scripture or traditions?

>catholic threats
It has long been established that catholics fight like little girls.

Actually, the pope is all about "muh feelings"

If you're not Orthodox, you're Heterodox. Simple as that.

Enjoy your cult of Romulus-Quirinus

The UK is the birthplace of Western Usury. Literally your government sacked the monasteries after you all became heretics, which was your primary public works for the poor. Equivalent to many billions of pounds today, stolen.

Then, because protestants were so cucked, you allowed usury to try to unfuck your country after you raped the monastic culture, which is how the bankers got a toehold in Europe (thanks UK). Then when you finally allowed the Rothschilds over, you wound up with the City of London, which is the den of all international usury and the ultimate source of the world's problems. In order to keep the City of London working obviously they have to keep the peasants happy (can't have the place burning down after all), which is why the UK enjoys marginal prosperity. There's a similar thing going on the USA, but for different reasons.

TL:DR - The UK was the Trojan Horse of Usury which destroyed Europe. The UK housed the major zionist financiers that envisioned the Balfour Declaration and gave us WWII and prolonged WWI, ultimately raping Germany and the West.

Literally most cucked country ever. By far, actually. Thanks protestants!

>will never happen, even though you wish, you satan
Pope has already kissed the feet of 'refugees', you know it's coming.

>you put that suffering on yourself by sucking muslim and communist cock
Oh, I'm sorry, we were too busy fighting off the Turks, and would have succeeded if you filthy Latins hadn't sacked Constantinople.

>Yes we grew fat by doing charity all over the world and fighting back against all sorts of evils while you were groomed by all of them
We fought the Muslims non stop until you betrayed us, then we still kept fighting, but of course we were weakened.

They're equally important. Scripture is basically written tradition. Either way traditions and scripture don't contradict each other. Protestants think they do because they have given up on tradition and therefore take verses out of context to build their laundromat churches or evil megachurches

shut up whore

Except, scripture is the word of God. Most "traditions" the Catholic Church practice are former pagan rituals.

this is the truth

nowhere in the Bible does it say that you have to "HAIL MARY"

also purgatory is complete bullshit there is no special holding place you go before you get to heaven, and you have to give the church money

>Pope has already kissed the feet of 'refugees', you know it's coming.
nice non sequitur. The two things have nothing to do with each other

>Oh, I'm sorry, we were too busy fighting off the Turks, and would have succeeded if you filthy Latins hadn't sacked Constantinople.
You shouldn't have genocided the latins then. We fought against the muslims too, countless times. And guess what? We BTFO them while you gave them your first-sons to be groomed by turkish sultans.

>We fought the Muslims non stop until you betrayed us, then we still kept fighting, but of course we were weakened.
No, we fought the muslims for you until you attacked us, so we stopped supporting you and you just let the muslims take over. Orthodox priests literally wrote to muslim generals before battle to beg them to spare their lives. You LARPers disgust me

Good point, let me just throw out data because the US has non-whites
Have you ever taken a statistics class?

This is what I hear when I read this.

What is this best form of Islam and why is it Shia?

Debate me.

>nowhere in the Bible does it say that you have to "HAIL MARY"

Neither do Catholics.

But why waste my time...if you had any intellectual curiosity at all you would have already known that...

Well at protestans are better than Mudslims.

Scripture is the word written by men who were inspired by the Holy Spirit, it's not directly written by God. You are thinking of the Quran.
>Most "traditions" the Catholic Church practice are former pagan rituals.
That's simply wrong. You are like those atheists who see "12 apostles" and think "12 months!!! Jesus is the sun god!!!!"

Keep crying catholic. It's all you lot are good for.

CHRISTIANS why you
Wordjip bones

Why you worship Mary

She doesn't cause salvation asshole

>sack Constantinople after Venetians get BTFO for acting like filthy Jews in trade
>pave the way for the rise of the Ottoman Empire and the opening of the floodgates into Europe
>hundreds of years later pave the way for modern liberalism, globalism, marxist theology in central and south America, and open borders while Orthodoxy leads the way in right wing nationalism, monarchism, and traditionalism
>"y-you w-were cucked by mudslimes lol sry but the bible says gates of hell shall not prevail"

>wins war for babylon (the international jews)
>still claims they are not the whore of babylon
it's like you can't even see you prove myself right

I am Byzantine

Hey guess what?

I am
Byzantium baby

...

Catholics have low IQs

>he follows my order and continues to cry
Fucking hell catholics, I expected more denial at least.

>Catholics
>Implying their anything but a bunch of lazy drunks shelling cash to boy diddlers
Come to New Orleans and see how great those catholic values are. I've never seen so many fucking lazy pieces of shit, and I'm not talking about the coons.

I am
Byzantine destroying europe

Most discussions of aesthetic themes by Islamic philosophers occur in the context of their considerations of the arts or rhetoric and poetics and the Aristotelian treatises devoted to these topics (see Aristotle §29). Following a practice established by the sixth-century Greek commentators on Aristotle, these treatises were classified by the Islamic philosophers as parts of Aristotle's logical corpus, the Organon (see Aristotelianism in Islamic philosophy). Thus the approach to these arts was not primarily aesthetic, but was focused on linguistic issues and the cognitive functions of rhetorical and poetic language. Rhetoric and poetics were classified as popular methods of instruction which produced less than certain states of belief in their audiences, who were assumed to be incapable of grasping the finer points of truly philosophical demonstration.

>kill people for literally no reason other than your wish for ethnic cleansing
>implying all latins were venetians anyway
>implying modern liberalism and other marxist ideologies were not literally funded by communist countries that had taken over because orthocucks sucked their cock and let them do so
>implying the whole "we wuz right wing and shiet" isn't the result of geo-political and historical consequences of communism falling in Russia and therefore in other orthocuck countries
>implying most people who lived through communism are not nostalgic of it
>implying the feat of communism for spies isn't literally the only reason why you don't have niggers everywhere
>implying the number of foreigners isn't increasing in your countries as well
>implying orthodox youth isn't just as degenerate and post-modernist
>literally correlating non-degeneracy to orthodoxy even though there is literally no correlation between the two
>being this much of an uneducated cuck

WE

The Islamic philosophers did not explicitly limit the use of rhetoric and poetics to the spheres of religious discourse and political communication, however, and in their commentaries on Aristotle's Poetics some effort was spent on explaining the linguistic mechanisms whereby speech becomes figurative and metaphorical. Ibn Rushd in particular attempted to apply his understanding of Aristotle's views on poetics to the interpretation and criticism of Arabic poetry, and his Talkhis kitab al-shi'r (Middle Commentary on the Poetics) is full of citations of the works of well-known Arabic poets. Nonetheless, most of the interest taken by the Islamic philosophers in the arts of rhetoric and poetics stemmed from the foundations provided by these arts for explaining the relationship between philosophy and religion. The central books of al-Farabi's Kitab al-huruf (The Book of Letters), along with Ibn Rushd's Fasl al-maqal (Decisive Treatise), are devoted to this theme, which is nicely summed up in the following passage from al-Farabi:

And since religion only teaches theoretical things by evoking imaginings and by persuasion, and its followers are acquainted with these two modes of instruction alone, it is clear that the art of theology which follows religion is not aware of anything that is not persuasive, and it does not verify anything at all except by persuasive methods and statements.

(Kitab al-huruf: 132)

>Falling for the Jewstianity meme
>sane person

pick one and only one

I am BYZANTINE

...

The use of the language of 'imaginings' and 'persuasions' indicates a reference to the cognitive aims that the Islamic philosophers traditionally ascribed to the arts of rhetoric and poetics. Religion is a reflection of and handmaiden to philosophy, dependent upon philosophy as a copy is dependent upon its original. In understanding religion as an imitation of philosophy, the Islamic philosophers were consciously evoking the background of Aristotle's Poetics and Plato's Republic and the aesthetic theories which they developed through a creative blending of the respective views of their two ancient sources on the nature of imitation.

Ibn Sina's Risala fi al-'ishq, discussed in §1, contains elements of a theory of aesthetic judgment that is also developed, from a somewhat different perspective, in his discussions of the psychological underpinnings of the art of poetics. In these discussions, aesthetic judgments are attributed to the faculty of imagination (al-mutakhayyila) and the related internal sense faculties that formed a part of the Islamic Aristotelians' development of the concept of imagination (phantasia) found in Aristotle's On the Soul and Parva naturalia. In turn the notion of imitation or mimsis, as found in Plato's Republic as well as in Aristotle's Poetics, was interpreted in terms of the functions of the imaginative faculty.

James was bishop of Jerusalem before anyone else, including Peter, so if there is a mother see, it's Jerusalem.

>claims Peter was the bishop of rome
>one of the only proofs of which was he says "here in Babylon" in his first epistle and Rome is said to be Babylon by Roman-Catholic apologetics
>calls someone else the whore of Babylon

oh I am laughin

Al-Farabi, Ibn Sina and Ibn Rushd all identify the imagination as the faculty by which poets produce the figurative discourses proper to their art, and to which they appeal in their audience. These authors all contrast this use of and appeal to the imagination with the strictly intellectual and rational aim proper to all other modes of discourse and forms of reasoning. Al-Farabi's Ihsa' al-'ulum (The Book of the Enumeration of the Sciences) provides one of the most extensive descriptions of the character of poetic imagination. Two aspects of poetic statements are emphasized by al-Farabi: their representation of their subjects in terms 'more noble or more debased' than they actually are, and their ability to bring about an appetitive, as well as a cognitive, movement in the audience. That is, by depicting a subject in terms of images that evoke a loathsome object, the poet is able to make the hearers feel aversion to the thing depicted, 'even if we are certain that it is not in fact as we imagine it to be' (Ihsa' al-'ulum: 84). The reason for this aversion is directly linked to the poet's appeal to the imaginative faculty: 'for the actions of a human being frequently follow his imagination, more than they follow his opinion and his knowledge, because often his opinion or his knowledge are contrary to his imagination, whereas his doing of something is proportional to his imagining of it, and not to his knowledge or his opinion about it' (Ihsa' al-'ulum: 85).

>the catholic instantly surrenders all the yous I could want
Just like your grandather

Why are early Christians cannibals

A similar point is made by Ibn Sina in a number of texts. Ibn Sina frequently contrasts poetics with other modes of discourse by distinguishing the poet's attempt to produce an act of imagination (takhyil) in the audience with the more intellectual goal of seeking to produce an act of assent (tasdiq) to the truth or falsity of some claim. Ibn Sina, like al-Farabi, emphasizes the fact that such acts of imagination may often be contrary to what we know or believe to be the case, and he has a favourite example to illustrate this point: if someone tells us that 'honey is vomited bile', we are likely to lose our appetite for the honey before us, even if we are quite certain that the metaphor is literally false. Ibn Sina also echoes al-Farabi's claim that this ability of the imagination to affect our action is owing to the close link between the imaginative faculty and the appetitive motions of the soul.

They are both red and yellow like the fires of hell

The emphasis upon the imagination's ability to intervene in the soul's intellectual assent appears to have been directly linked by the Islamic philosophers to the theme of imitation. Al-Farabi, for example, appears to have made this connection in his Ihsa' al-'ulum, since he concludes his remarks on the poetic statement's ability to influence behaviour with the observation that this is 'what happens when we see likenesses imitative of the thing, or things resembling something else'. By the same token, throughout his Talkhis kitab al-shi'r, Ibn Rushd consistently interprets the Arabic term for mimsis (muhaka) as equivalent to takhyil, the evoking of an image. And in several passages, Ibn Sina contrasts imaginative utterances which 'imitate one thing by another' with imaginative utterances that happen to be literally true as well. Generally, then, for the Islamic philosophers 'imitation' appears to refer to those specific acts of imaginative representation in which the object is depicted in terms not proper to it, or more specifically, which portray it as better or worse than its actual state. In this way, imitation is linked not only or even principally to Aristotelian mimsis, but rather to Plato's notion of imitation as it relates to the theory of the Forms found in the Republic (see Mimsis; Plato §14).

Because it's renegade.

"Thou shalt have no other Gods beside Me."

Oh hey, let's pray to Mary and St. Anthony,

So Rogue

This emerges clearly from a discussion in a little treatise by al-Farabi known simply as the Kitab al-shi'r (Book on Poetics). In this treatise, al-Farabi identifies imitation, along with metric composition, as constitutive of the very substance of poetry, with imitation the most crucial of the two elements. In order to explain the nature of poetic imitation, which occurs through language, al-Farabi draws heavily upon its similarities to imitation through action, for example, in the making of statues or in performative imitations. Here too imitation is said to have as its end to 'cause an imagining' of the imitated object, either directly or indirectly. The difference between direct and indirect imitation refers to the distance that separates the representation of the object from the reality itself, as illustrated in the example of a statue. For if an artist wished to imitate a person named Zayd:

... he might make a statue which resembles him, and along with this make a mirror in which he sees the statue of Zayd. And it might be that we would not see the statue itself, but rather the form of his statue in the mirror. And then we would know him through what imitates an imitation of him, and thus be two degrees removed from him in reality.

(Kitab al-shi'r: 94-95)

>Thinks Christianity is Jewish

That this meme has not yet died is a true testament to human stupidity and the inability to conduct a modicum of honest research.

How many more cucks will come out of the woodwork with this nonsense? I'm beginning to believe its a hasbara psyop. In fact, I'm certain it is, I'm just not sure how many are hasbara trolls and how many are just morons.

I definitely expect more out of Germany...but one glance at their country tells me I shouldn't...

I take it you've been talking to edgy 15 year old fedoras, but the definition of atheism isn't "hates christians".
That said, leftism has corrupted the youth into having this rebelious need, so it's not as much that atheism made them hate westerners and christians but that leftism used atheism to accomplish as much.

Why did they do it

>nice non sequitur. The two things have nothing to do with each other
You're not seeing the big picture.

>You shouldn't have genocided the latins then.
You genocided us too.

>We fought against the muslims too, countless times. And guess what? We BTFO them while you gave them your first-sons to be groomed by turkish sultans.
Only in Spain, and it took 700 years. You were shielded from the Muslims because of us, until 1453.

>No, we fought the muslims for you until you attacked us
WTF, you're fucking deluded.

>he thinks Babylon is simply a geographical place
and yet your low IQ should be able to make you understand that he called Rome babylon even though the two had very little in common apart from their last for power and their ability to subjogate nations.
Whore of Babylon is the opposite of Bride of Christ, which the Church is. That means a church that rejects the true Church of Christ and by doing so acquires power on earth. Guess which countries became the richest in the world after separating from Catholicism and spread their degenerate liberalist views all over the world?

The possibility of degrees of removal from the original is highly evocative of Plato's description of the possible states of removal from the Forms in the myth of the cave. Al-Farabi believes this possibility holds not only for artistic imitation, but also for linguistic imitation in poetry. While these associations are sometimes viewed pejoratively by the Islamic philosophers, as one might expect in the light of their Platonic resonances, this attitude is not universal. Al-Farabi himself reports noncommittally that many people consider the more remote imitation to be the more perfect and artistic, and here as in his other works he admits the power of imitative utterances for inciting humans to actions to which intellectual opinion or knowledge fail to move them.

It is Ibn Sina (§8), however, who goes furthest in eliminating the negative overtones of these descriptions of poetic speech. In all but his most youthful writings, Ibn Sina emphasizes that the poet's concern with the imagination requires that his work be judged on its own terms and not on the level of intellectual judgments. Strictly speaking, poetic imaginings are neither true nor false; but in so far as poetic statements may imply corresponding intelligible propositions, they may possess a truth-value incidentally and secondarily. For this reason, although many will remain literally false, this need not be universally the case:

And in general poetic [syllogisms] are composed of premises which evoke images... be they true or false. Generally they are composed of premises to the extent that they possess a figure and a composition which the soul receives by means of what is in them of imitation and even of truth; for nothing prevents this [that is, their being true].

(al-Isharat wa-'l-tanbihat: 80-1)
By the same token, Ibn Sina also allows for the use of poetic and imaginative discourse that is ethically neutral, seeking neither to ennoble nor to debase what is imitated, but rather merely aiming to 'provoke wonder through the beauty of the comparison' and thus to fulfil what could be termed a purely aesthetic end.

Christians why do you worship dead men

So divine inspiration is not "of God"? Good one goy. I'm not referring to those examples, as those are poor. I'm referring to the Catholic mindset that allows a figurehead of the church apart from Christ.

>implying the Orthodox Church wasn't the most heavily persecuted under the communist era, which resulted in many martyrs and saints
>implying our patristic teaching isn't explicitly against marxism, liberalism, and nihilism, while Catholic universities literally teach liberation theology in their classrooms
>implying the Orthodox Church hasn't been actively outspoken against Muslim migrants while the Pope tells everyone to take in refugee families
>implying implications
>being this much of a papist cocksucker

not an argument
It's like you didn't even try, shlomo

Why do Chridtiand do this

>You're not seeing the big picture.
nah satan, you are just deluding yourself.

>You genocided us too.
we save your ass countless times, but if you act like a cunt we're going to treat you like one, it's only fair. Either way the sack of Constantinople was not ordered by the Pope and he got angry as fuck at the people who did it.

>Only in Spain, and it took 700 years. You were shielded from the Muslims because of us, until 1453.
That's completely wrong, you cuck. I suggest you look up all the battles we won against the muslims throughout the ages. One example is the siege of Vienna, which happened a lot of time later. Either way the fact alone that the reconquista happened is proof enough that we never bent the knee, while your patriarchs were dining with the sultans.

>WTF, you're fucking deluded.
no, I am just not an uneducated tool like you

Kek'd heartily.

I am
BYZANTINE

Why CHRISTIANS do this

Why the cannibalism

Why the idolatry

>So divine inspiration is not "of God"?
of course it's of God. But you elevate the letter so much that your faith becomes of the letter and not of the spirit, as it should be.
> I'm referring to the Catholic mindset that allows a figurehead of the church apart from Christ.
The pope is the vicar of Christ, not the head of the Church. The head of the Church is Christ. I am not interested in your heretical view of the Pope you get from chick tracts, because it's not the Catholic view.

>Not including the Coptic and Oriental Churches.
>Implying Roman Catholicism isn't a heresy that broke free from the one true UNITED church.
>Implying Roman Catholics claiming the Church of Rome is the one true Church isn't fucking retarded and that the one true Church is the culmination of all the major Bishops (Bishop of Rome + Bishop of Constantinople + Bishop of Jerusalem, etc.)
>Implying the Bishop of Rome isn't responsible for keeping Christianity weak and divided.
>Implying Roman Catholicism isn't a corrupt business that sells spirituality to would be Christians.

I am BYZANTIUM

Catholics do, not Christians.

When will you christian judeo-faggots die already.

Islam is the new BYZANTIUM

Again, Catholics.

Isn't it funny how idolatrous the first CHRISTIANS are worshipping saints and being cannibals

"in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". Who is the Word? What is the Word? Answer those and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Yes because islam tells us that they corrupted JESUS from the beginning

This is the corruption

Islam is the cure

Debunking that shill nonsense has gotten old. Can't blame anyone who just doesn't care. If you want believe the Earth is flat I'm not going to waste my time debunking it. If you were intellectually honest you would never have reached such a patently false conclusion to begin with.

man I just want to crusade already.

IMO Baptists.

Catholics are barely Christians.
- They transformed Mary into an almost-God;
- They imagined 'Purgatory' purely to raise money;
- They fought against literacy to ensure that the masses couldn't read the bible and implement actual Christianity;
- It engaged in politics throughout Europe, mostly for the worse (but thanks for stopping the ingress of Islam);
- It transformed into more of an organization than a religion.

By the way, they're not the first church. The Greek churches were much more significant in the early days of Christianity.

By the way, making signs with your fingers is an OCD habit and has nothing to do with religion. I'm glad that you think that it keeps Dracula and other nasties (and bad luck?) away, but it's a nervous tick.

All of the good modern countries are based on some type of Protestant religions.

(Catholicism is fine, but it's certainly not the best form of Christianity.)

>Orthodox - bunch of dirty slavs

It was the first official Christianity to ever exist though really. It was the differences between the Eastern and Western Roman Empire that lead to Catholicism being born.

Could you stop shitting up all the threads?

Don't you have anything better to do?

Vicar of Christ is a numerically evil name to give the head of the church

Why did the bible do this

At least we'll be gone before the world declines into an atheist and Islamic shithole.

I am
The
Byzantine empire

School of Athens DRAWTHREAD GOD

>chick tracks
You mean glow tracks, and I distribute them, not pick them up.

>>implying the Orthodox Church wasn't the most heavily persecuted under the communist era, which resulted in many martyrs and saints
no shit, but your society let them took over while catholic society fought the communists. Also plenty of catholic martyrs and saints against communism too, it's not an argument.
>>implying our patristic teaching isn't explicitly against marxism, liberalism, and nihilism,
Catholicism is explicitly against it too, it's not an argument
>while Catholic universities literally teach liberation theology in their classrooms
Literally a strawman
>>implying the Orthodox Church hasn't been actively outspoken against Muslim migrants
Not true, either way it's funny that you say that after you sucked their cock for centuries.
>while the Pope tells everyone to take in refugee families
this is true, but it's no different from the Orthodox. Also there is nothing wrong with giving refuge to families that escape from war. The problem is that they have to leave after the war, which is not something the Pope advocated for at all and is dependent upon secular institutions. Your values are not even Orthodox, you are simply not a christian if you speak like this against the less fortunate.
>>being this much of a papist cocksucker
at least I don't suck communist and islamic cock

>all this damage control
just give it up orthocuck

Psst I am Byzantine

Be quite Ishmael, you lost your birthright. If you don't get the joke, your a troll.

Why did he do this that cannibal

You are an illegitimate joke that makes no sense even if CHRISTIANS are right

>religion
When you start saying gravity is "just a theory" you should probably kill yourself.

Why did they go pagan

Jesus is the Word, you damn heretic

that's wrong. The person who came up with that translated in numbers some bullshit title she came up with that was something like "son of jesus" of something like that, and not vicar of Christ. Funny thing is, her own name made in letters gave the result of 666. You fags are literally deceived by satan and can't even see it.

Oh yeah, because closeted homosexuality is so much healthier for the clergy.

*made in numbers

Why they wrong?

No need for bread and wine to God

Only prayer and praise

You speak like only Slavs are orthodox
What is with Greeks or Cypriots ? They fought for their freedom

You mean Catholics Mohamed.

QQ some more pedo filth.

only thing worse than christians and their cuck gods are people unironically worshiping a philologically wrong egyptian memefrog

CATHOLICS make the bible

Islam afrees because it is corrupted

Isn't it funny CATHOLICS existed in 1st century and corrupted the message of Nabi Isa

I'm sorry. But I guess it's hard to change your view when you probably spent a huge amout of time reading pro-(((christian))) stuff. Believing in fairy tales is not the best way to appear as an 'Intellectual"

>your society let them took over while catholic society fought the communists

Not in Central and South America they didn't, in those places Catholic priests like Gustavo Gutierrez and Oscar Romero were paving the way for liberation theology ie Marxism

>Catholicism is explicitly against it too

Catholic social teaching is explicitly liberation theology

>Literally a strawman

No it's not, Catholic universities teach it, I know because I went to Catholic uni, you would know too if you had an education you stupid idiot

>Your values are not even Orthodox, you are simply not a christian if you speak like this against the less fortunate.

You've been calling me a cuck and a nigger in this entire thread faggot. If you weren't such a hypocrite you wouldn't speak about the less fortunate Orthodox throughout history as some sort of testimony against them.

Why did they do this

>Orthodox
christkikery
>Protestant
christkikery
>atheist
kikery
>Catholic- formed by Jesus and Peter themselves
original christkike
>Prove me wrong.
just did faggot

Last time I checked, Catholics weren't around when Aramaic was the common language.

We are scholastics

We are Lyceum

ALLAHU AKBAR

I am MALAYSIA

The last time I checked they don't even know their own bible

Look at tbis shit

You have DEBT

AND I AM BYZANTIUM

GREEK CU CO SO MAD

Isn't it cancerous that you islamofilth still marry child brides?

It's so funny how much of an idiocy PROTNIGGERISM is

>Not in Central and South America they didn't, in those places Catholic priests like Gustavo Gutierrez and Oscar Romero were paving the way for liberation theology ie Marxism
liberation theology is the result of communist spies trying to infiltrate seminaries. Guess which countries payed the spies? Orthodox countries. Either way liberation theology is just a political ideology, it's not recognized at dogma. There's plenty of people who say stupid shit everywhere, that doesn't make it church doctrine.
>Catholic social teaching is explicitly liberation theology
it's not
>No it's not, Catholic universities teach it, I know because I went to Catholic uni, you would know too if you had an education you stupid idiot
Nice anecdote faggot, but your political clubs at the uni don't mean that liberation theology is official catholic teaching.
>You've been calling me a cuck and a nigger in this entire thread faggot. If you weren't such a hypocrite you wouldn't speak about the less fortunate Orthodox throughout history as some sort of testimony against them.
Being a cuck and a nigger is the choice of a degenerate. It has nothing to do with race or with social position. You can be rich, have a sheltered and quite life and still be both a cuck and a nigger. For someone who hates liberation theology you sure like to use their perverted rethoric a lot

Look at me Nnnooow nnnoooowww

I am the BYZANTINESE EMPIRESDEEEEEEEE

Looks like you don't check well enough. Again, I'm not catholic, I'm a messianic Jew. So fuck off muzzie filth.

>- They imagined 'Purgatory' purely to raise money;

This as a agnostic i was suprised that so many teachings i heard about are not even in the bible

cathocucks

>mfw

Is what? Cmon Mohamed. I'm messianic Jew, talk shit about that.

Those JEWS are MEMES

HAHAHAHAHAHA

A FUCKING JOKE OF HISTORY

I'm not kazarian. I'm Jewish, well partly.

PROTNIGGERS ARE A JOKE TOO

WHERE IS SOLA SCRIPFURa

YOU ARE NONSENSE

NOT EVEN FALSE

>pope francis himself is a vocal advocate of liberation theology
>it's not official Catholic teaching

user pls

YOUR KIND IS A PATHETIX JOKE

Why do you keep posting cathlocuck shit? You obsessed sandnog? Again, I'm not catholic, so your just annoying.

I AM BYZANTINE MIGHTY BAIZANTINE

THE EMPEROR SLEEPS TONIGHT

I appreciate catholicism and their traditions and general discipline but

Protestant denominations are the only Biblical forms of Christianity.

And the only place you can find real Christians that actually believe in God and not just simply following what their parents taught them or doing it because of peer pressure.

CAPS MAKES ME LOUDER! LOUDER MAKES ME MORE RIGHT!
Troll harder Faggot.

Hahahaha

THE CHRISTIANS INFANCY IS CATHOLIC TONYOU

KYS

It's because Rome is the seat of Peter and also Paul.

Explain this

Dumb CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN THIS SHIT

KYS

Can you not even spell now. Mudslimes, I swear.

You forgot the original Christians, the lineage up to the modern independent Baptists. They've been hunted down and killed by every group you mentioned during most of the past 2000 years because they follow the Bible and the words of Christ instead of some man.

LOOOOK

NO SOLA FIDE

TJE PATJEIX JEW KYS

I love kissing Muslim feet too, OP.

YOU ARE A NONSENSE

>>pope francis himself is a vocal advocate of liberation theology
he literally never mentioned the words liberation and theology together. But even if he was, that still wouldn't make it official catholic teaching. Ironically enough you idiots are the only ones who really see the Pope as some divine figurehead whose words are as important as the words of Jesus himsef, not Catholics.

WHY DID FIRST CHEISTIANS DENY BALTIST SJIT

As an atheist, I don't know or care much about the different forms of Christianity, but Catholics have cool art

>You forgot the original Christians, the lineage up to the modern independent Baptists

That's what I said. He is the Word. I'm saying that the Word of God, the bible, is more important than petty traditions. Truth is greater than tradition.

Explain this loser

THE WORS OF GOD IS ALLAH

>>Catholic- formed by Jesus and Peter themselves

Constantine and Sunday Sun god Worship


> Proven wrong , Protip

BAPTIST ANTI SOLA FIDE NOW

Why do Malaysians shitpost on the internet?

Yeah user you're right, those in Catholics and Orthodox hid those Baptists really well all those years. Kek

How do you even read that they baptism the dead , read nigger

this is their false doctrine
>12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

>29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? 30And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? 31I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. 33Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. 34Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame

so they are baptised for the dead, they dont baptise the dead

>Catholic- formed by Jesus and Peter themselves

You obviously have no clue about religious history. Read a book.

BUT WHY ARE EARLY CHRISTIANS CANNIBALS

>unless he speaks ex-cathedra it has no effect on Catholic teaching

This is what papists literally believe. Liberation theology books are part of the curriculum at Catholiv universities, it doesn't matter if it is dogma or not, it is still what is taught.

What do you guys think of Latter Day Saints?

Says the one lead by an envoy of Satan.

>cathlocucks

LOLno

THAT IS BAPTISM FOE THE DEAD NIGGER

ALL EARLY CHRISTIANS THINK BAPTISM BRINGS REMISSION OF SONS

PROTNIGGERS BTFO BY HUSTORY

...

That's a misreading of the verse, Paul was referring to a cult in Corinth that would perform baptisms to the dead. He was saying that even the pagans believed in the resurrection. I'm an ex-mormon I know all about this verse.

We wuz all kangs and shieed my friend

No, it is founded in Christ, not Rome.

Here is a selection from chapter 16 of the ninth Similitude of the Shepherd of Hermas (early second century):

They were obliged,” he answered, “to ascend through water in order that they might be made alive; for, unless they laid aside the deadness of their life, they could not in any other way enter into the kingdom of God. … For,” he continued, “before a man bears the name of the Son of God he is dead; but when he receives the seal he lays aside his deadness, and obtains life. The seal, then, is the water: they descend into the water dead, and they arise alive. And to them, accordingly, was this seal preached, and they made use of it that they might enter into the kingdom of God.” (Shepherd of Hermas)

No, the Bible is just a book, Jesus is the Word. Whatever is sacred in the Bible is only so because it comes from Jesus.

> I'm saying that the Word of God, the bible, is more important than petty traditions.
The Bible is part of Tradition. The canon was chosen through the teachings of Tradition. You can't separate the Bible from Tradition just like you cannot separate a mother from her child.
>Truth is greater than tradition.
Jesus is the Truth. Jesus gave us the tradition that allowed inspired men to write the Bible. It's not up to you to decide what is tradition and what isn't, stop being proud, you are nobody. Tradition is decided by the history and continuity of the Church through the Early Church fathers and the saints and through the centuries.

literally not an argument. I am sorry that your shit propaganda gets refuted so easily, but the truth must hurt, it's what truth does

Don't you have a suicide vest to detonate Mohamed?

because someone is gona strangle you and eat your fucking face off you fallen fuck

Exactly. Well said good sir

That does not even make sense your body is material and your spirit is not , paul even wrote about this , and suddenly he would splash some water on the dead now , or would he pull the dead bodies in the river like they baptised.

PRODDIE BUTTHURT FEOM BTFO BY JISTORY

Peter just wrote a bunch of passive aggressive letters ie Thessalonians Corinthians etc. because he wanted to centralize the church and its practices with him at the top. They completely missed what the fuck Jesus was talking about. Jesus was speaking politically about the Roman occupation. Independence was the "Kingdom of God."

I can agree with that.

EXPLAIN THIS

Next, is the well known figure of St. Justin Martyr (c. 100-165). Here are some selections from his First Apology:

“I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ; lest, if we omit this, we seem to be unfair in the explanation we are making. As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. They then are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. . . . The reason for this we have received from the Apostles.” (Chapter 61)

And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. (Chapter 66)

>Catholic

>formed by a jew and a degenerate roman catamite

1 Corinthians 1:27-28King James Version (KJV)

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

Not much to do in Malaysia, huh.

Yup.

Now master Romans 10:9-10.

no it is u not understanding flesh and beeing a mother goddess satan cock sucking faggot .


>prove me wrong , protip you can't

Huh, odd, Jesus has a Hebrew name too

Just ignore him. It's all he has in his shitty country.

And your point is what?

With any luck, nobody will ever attempt to explain anything to you, as explaining things to you is very much like explaining things to a brick wall.

Built of stupid bricks.

Literally pagan and not remotely Christian. More like an American version of Islam. I converted from Mormonism to Catholicism and its the best thing that ever happened to me. Mormonism is a cult that controls every aspect of your life, it nearly destroyed my family. Also if you're Mormon it's a sin to be on Cred Forums, you should speak to your Bishop.

IN BYZANTIUM MIGJTY BYZANTIUM

MUSLIM WMPEROR SLEEPS TONIGHT

WEEERRRRRRREEEEEEEEE

BYZANTIUM IS NOW ISLAM

WEEEERRRREEEEEEEEEEEEWEEEEE

BYXANTIIM NOW ISLAM

kek

hivemind

nigger there is no church in history that has been more despised than the Catholic Church, if we are using that argument you lose. And no, heretics from the first centuries of christianity were not baptists, that's just WE WUZ memeing from alabama rednecks in laundromat churches

Really made me wonder

Catholicism is a filthy shitskin religion, and also blasphemy and heresy to God, Christian Identity is the only true religion.

PROTNIGGER BTDO

btw chump, listen witch , listen up.

knowledge is dead in you

rip in peace you absolute faggot

NO DOLA SCRIPTURA IN BUBLE AND WALRU CHEISRIANIRT

This where the saying,"dead to sin, alive in Christ" comes from. I am familiar with it.

Do you really think that just because they weren't politically powerful that they didn't exist?

PROTMIGGERS DENY HUSTORY

Cred Forums will never be a catholic broad

jesuit idol worshipping cults more like churches of satan all of you catholics need to stop baptising fucking babies

BAPTISMAL REGENERATION CONTRA PROTNIGGERS

It is an account of the Word, Jesus, left as a guide for salvation. It's not as simple as being baptized and saying you believe in Jesus Christ as savior. You have to live it as well

Sorry about that friend, I hope you are happy worshipping an apostasy and reading altered scripture. God have mercy on your soul

PROTNIGGER DENIES REALITY

>ascribing theology to orthodoxy

>not ascribing theology to catholics

m80 philosophy is what pagans do

also orthodox cant theology because they arent allowed to think

Turns out people hate totalitarian murderous evil institutions too.

Next, is the well known figure of St. Justin Martyr (c. 100-165). Here are some selections from his First Apology:

“I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ; lest, if we omit this, we seem to be unfair in the explanation we are making. As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. They then are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. . . . The reason for this we have received from the Apostles.” (Chapter 61)

And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. (Chapter 66)

Are you saying that reptoid aliens don't run the world just because you can't see them?

Next, is the well known figure of St. Justin Martyr (c. 100-165). Here are some selections from his First Apology:

“I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ; lest, if we omit this, we seem to be unfair in the explanation we are making. As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. They then are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. . . . The reason for this we have received from the Apostles.” (Chapter 61)

And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. (Chapter 66)

If you can't tell the difference between water and the Holy Spirit, you're not saved.

I dont belief anything from the church fathers, i only belief the bible, that went out the door the moment judas hanged him self

In his Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, St. Justin contrasts Christian baptism with the Jewish baptism, writing:

By reason, therefore, of this laver of repentance and knowledge of God, which has been ordained on account of the transgression of God’s people, as Isaiah cries, we have believed, and testify that that very baptism which he announced is alone able to purify those who have repented; and this is the water of life. But the cisterns which you have dug for yourselves are broken and profitless to you. For what is the use of that baptism which cleanses the flesh and body alone? (ch. 14)

This [Jewish] circumcision is not, however, necessary for all men, but for you [Jews] alone, in order that, as I have already said, you may suffer these things which you now justly suffer. Nor do we receive that useless baptism of cisterns, for it has nothing to do with this baptism of life. Wherefore also God has announced that you have forsaken Him, the living fountain, and dug for yourselves broken cisterns which can hold no water. Even you, who are the circumcised according to the flesh, have need of our circumcision; but we, having the latter, do not require the former. ( ch. 19)

Yes, catholics have always been evil.

If you're baptized with the baptism of John, you're not saved.

I don't know what you are, but you're not a Christian.

PROTNIGGER AGAINST BIBLE

Your Joseph Smith translation of the bible is literally the most altered form of Scripture in existence. The scriptures are not altered, there have been manuscripts found that date back to Apostolic times that show the scriptures are remarkably preserved. What they dontatch up with is your blatant fabrication that is the Joseph Smith translation.

gravity is just a theory and a wrong one. yes things fall to the ground when you drop them, that doesnt prove gravity you jew cuck

Your belief went out the door? The bible went out the door?

EARLY CHRISTIANS NOT CHRISTIANS

In his Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, St. Justin contrasts Christian baptism with the Jewish baptism, writing:

By reason, therefore, of this laver of repentance and knowledge of God, which has been ordained on account of the transgression of God’s people, as Isaiah cries, we have believed, and testify that that very baptism which he announced is alone able to purify those who have repented; and this is the water of life. But the cisterns which you have dug for yourselves are broken and profitless to you. For what is the use of that baptism which cleanses the flesh and body alone? (ch. 14)

This [Jewish] circumcision is not, however, necessary for all men, but for you [Jews] alone, in order that, as I have already said, you may suffer these things which you now justly suffer. Nor do we receive that useless baptism of cisterns, for it has nothing to do with this baptism of life. Wherefore also God has announced that you have forsaken Him, the living fountain, and dug for yourselves broken cisterns which can hold no water. Even you, who are the circumcised according to the flesh, have need of our circumcision; but we, having the latter, do not require the former. ( ch. 19)

Fools, we must stand united by His world lest we become divided and conquered by the agents of satan.

It's not even a city anymore since it was sacked almost a thousand years ago.

CATHOLICS ARE FIRST CHRISTIANS

Any Mormon that hasn't read the CES letter is deathly afraid of reading the CES letter.

I've never seen anyone put so much effort into research as that ex-Mormon did. We got to the moon and back with less effort.

Italians. Ha ha. The Chinese of Europe.

Perhaps they were despised because they killed anyone who didn't follow their made up rules. But they still had political power over the people so the people obeyed. What else can they do when they are ignorant and under control? Catholic history= the best Korea.

>It's not as simple as being baptized and saying you believe in Jesus Christ as savior. You have to live it as well
I agree, but what you just said is faith + works, which is a catholic teaching, not a protestant one

>It is an account of the Word, Jesus, left as a guide for salvation.
Not different from what I said. In your approaching the Bible you approach it as if it was Jesus himself, although as you say yourself it's a guide for salvation. But it's part of something greater than letters on a page, because the Catholic faith is alive and breaths through its members. Christianity isn't the Bible, Christianity is the covenant between God and man, and you'll find that most of Tradition is simply the obligations of man towards that covenant. Living your life through Jesus means also in partaking of things that were not put in the Bible because they were part of the living faith and passed down through the ages, by being lived in the Church one generation after the other. A living tradition prots cut themselves off from

Do you think it's a secret that all you're doing is adding to the post count to 404 the thread, so that the gospel of Jesus Christ is thwarted?

Next consider the following quotation from St. Theophilus bishop of Antioch from 169-182:

On the fifth day [of creation] the living creatures which proceed from the waters were produced, through which also is revealed the manifold wisdom of God in these things; for who could count their multitude and very various kinds? Moreover, the things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this also might be a sign of men’s being destined to receive repentance and remission of sins, through the water and laver of regeneration, — as many as come to the truth, and are born again, and receive blessing from God. (To Autolycus, Bk II)

>when other people hate it, it's because it's good
>when I hate it, it's because it's bad
nice cognitive dissonance and special pleading nigger

PROTNIGGER CANNOT HANDLE HISTORY

Next consider the following quotation from St. Theophilus bishop of Antioch from 169-182:

On the fifth day [of creation] the living creatures which proceed from the waters were produced, through which also is revealed the manifold wisdom of God in these things; for who could count their multitude and very various kinds? Moreover, the things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this also might be a sign of men’s being destined to receive repentance and remission of sins, through the water and laver of regeneration, — as many as come to the truth, and are born again, and receive blessing from God. (To Autolycus, Bk II)

>Fools, we must stand united by His world lest we become divided and conquered by the agents of satan.
I agree, but I see to many orthodox trying to proselytize by shitting on Catholicism, and it's starting to piss me off.

Next consider the second century bishop of Lyon, St. Irenaeus (b. 115-130, d. around 200 AD). In his work titled Against Heresies, he writes,

And when we come to refute them [i.e. those heretics], we shall show in its fitting-place, that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith. (A.H., I.21)

And again, giving to the disciples the power of regeneration into God, He said to them, “Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” (Matthew 28:19) … “The Lord also promised to send the Comforter, who should join us to God (St. John. 16:7). For as a compacted lump of dough cannot be formed of dry wheat without fluid matter, nor can a loaf possess unity, so, in like manner, neither could we, being many be made one in Christ Jesus without the water from heaven. And as dry earth does not bring forth unless it receive moisture, in like manner we also, being originally a dry tree, could never have brought forth fruit unto life without the voluntary rain from above. For our bodies have received unity among themselves by means of that laver which leads to incorruption; but our souls by means of the Spirit. Wherefore both are necessary, since both contribute towards the life of God.” (A.H., III.17)

Oh I know I've tried to get Mormon friends to read it and they won't even open the email. Kek. If they really believe they have the truth they shouldn't be afraid of any attempted attacks on it.

>>Perhaps they were despised because they killed anyone who didn't follow their made up rules. But they still had political power over the people so the people obeyed. What else can they do when they are ignorant and under control? Catholic history= the best Korea.
wow it's like you never opened a history book in your entire life. But then again you are an american

Don't be so extreme boy. There are written evidences of Anabaptists and later Baptists. Anyway my point isn't in a group title but that there has always been true followers and that those true followers weren't part of the political/religious systems of the times. I guess you can say they were kinda hidden.

Yes, different people hate different things for different reasons.

That may shock you.

Your church has murdered over 68,000,000 innocent Christians and Jews.

That won't shock you, because you will refuse to believe it.

Next consider the second century bishop of Lyon, St. Irenaeus (b. 115-130, d. around 200 AD). In his work titled Against Heresies, he writes,

And when we come to refute them [i.e. those heretics], we shall show in its fitting-place, that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith. (A.H., I.21)

And again, giving to the disciples the power of regeneration into God, He said to them, “Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” (Matthew 28:19) … “The Lord also promised to send the Comforter, who should join us to God (St. John. 16:7). For as a compacted lump of dough cannot be formed of dry wheat without fluid matter, nor can a loaf possess unity, so, in like manner, neither could we, being many be made one in Christ Jesus without the water from heaven. And as dry earth does not bring forth unless it receive moisture, in like manner we also, being originally a dry tree, could never have brought forth fruit unto life without the voluntary rain from above. For our bodies have received unity among themselves by means of that laver which leads to incorruption; but our souls by means of the Spirit. Wherefore both are necessary, since both contribute towards the life of God.” (A.H., III.17)

And inasmuch as man, with respect to that formation which, was after Adam, having fallen into transgression, needed the laver of regeneration, [the Lord] said to him [upon whom He had conferred sight], after He had smeared his eyes with the clay, “Go to Siloam, and wash;” John 9:7 thus restoring to him both [his perfect] confirmation, and that regeneration which takes place by means of the laver. And for this reason when he was washed he came seeing, that he might both know Him who had fashioned him, and that man might learn [to know] Him who has conferred upon him life. (A.H., V.15)

You seriously need to read a history book that was not written and edited by Jesuits.

St. Irenaeus says elsewhere:

“Now, this is what faith does for us, as the elders, the disciples of the apostles, have handed down to us. First of all, it admonishes us to remember that we have received baptism for the remission of sins in the name of God the Father, and in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became incarnate and died and raised, and in the Holy Spirit of God; and that this baptism is the seal of eternal life and is rebirth unto God, that we be no more children of mortal men, but of the eternal everlasting God; and that the eternal and everlasting One is God, and is above all creatures, and that all things whatsoever are subject to Him; and that what is subject to Him was all made by Him; so that God is not ruler and Lord of what is another’s, but of His own, and all things are God’s; that God, therefore, is the Almighty, and all things whatsoever are from God.” (The Proof of Apostolic Preaching)

St. Irenaeus says elsewhere:

“Now, this is what faith does for us, as the elders, the disciples of the apostles, have handed down to us. First of all, it admonishes us to remember that we have received baptism for the remission of sins in the name of God the Father, and in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became incarnate and died and raised, and in the Holy Spirit of God; and that this baptism is the seal of eternal life and is rebirth unto God, that we be no more children of mortal men, but of the eternal everlasting God; and that the eternal and everlasting One is God, and is above all creatures, and that all things whatsoever are subject to Him; and that what is subject to Him was all made by Him; so that God is not ruler and Lord of what is another’s, but of His own, and all things are God’s; that God, therefore, is the Almighty, and all things whatsoever are from God.” (The Proof of Apostolic Preaching)

There are 4 Baptist churches on one street in my town and each one teaches something completely different. You can't claim something is true when the very same organization can't decide what is true.

Link me these books oh dear Sage

Next consider St. Clement of Alexandria (d. 215), in The Paedagogus ([Christ] the Educator):

Is it, then, that [Christ] was made perfect only in the sense of being washed, and that He was consecrated by the descent of the Holy Spirit? Such is the case. The same also takes place in our case, whose exemplar Christ became. Being baptized, we are illuminated; illuminated, we become sons; being made sons, we are made perfect; being made perfect, we are made immortal. “I,” says He, “have said that you are gods, and all sons of the Highest.” This work is variously called grace, and illumination, and perfection, and washing: washing, by which we cleanse away our sins; grace, by which the penalties accruing to transgressions are remitted; and illumination, by which that holy light of salvation is beheld, that is, by which we see God clearly. Finally, we call it ‘perfection’ as needing nothing further, for what more does he need who possesses the knowledge of God? It would indeed be out of place to call something that was not fully perfect a gift of God.” …

For what ignorance has bound ill, is by knowledge loosed well; those bonds are with all speed slackened by human faith and divine grace, our transgressions being taken away by one Pœonian medicine, the baptism of the Word. We are washed from all our sins, and are no longer entangled in evil. This is the one grace of illumination, that our characters are not the same as before our washing. And since knowledge springs up with illumination, shedding its beams around the mind, the moment we hear, we who were untaught become disciples. Does this, I ask, take place on the advent of this instruction? You cannot tell the time. For instruction leads to faith, and faith with baptism is trained by the Holy Spirit.

In the same way, therefore, we also, repenting of our sins, renouncing our iniquities, purified by baptism, speed back to the eternal light, children to the Father. (Book I, Chapter 6)

but your argument was that baptists were the most hated, which isn't true. Literally nobody cares about the baptists. They are retarded but nobody hate them for it, at most we have compassion for how deceived they are.
When it comes to Catholicism though, it's pure hate by literally everyone that isn't a catholic. Atheists, jews, muslims, protestants. Everybody comes to agree on hating the Catholic Church.
>Your church has murdered over 68,000,000 innocent Christians and Jews.
lmao. I can never grasp how propaganda like this meant for illiterate peasants in the 16th centuy still has a hold on americlaps. It's like you never evolved or something.
>That won't shock you, because you will refuse to believe it.
I refuse to believe made-up facts and I believe history instead, how shocking
youtube.com/watch?v=qhlAqklH0do

Next consider St. Clement of Alexandria (d. 215), in The Paedagogus ([Christ] the Educator):

Is it, then, that [Christ] was made perfect only in the sense of being washed, and that He was consecrated by the descent of the Holy Spirit? Such is the case. The same also takes place in our case, whose exemplar Christ became. Being baptized, we are illuminated; illuminated, we become sons; being made sons, we are made perfect; being made perfect, we are made immortal. “I,” says He, “have said that you are gods, and all sons of the Highest.” This work is variously called grace, and illumination, and perfection, and washing: washing, by which we cleanse away our sins; grace, by which the penalties accruing to transgressions are remitted; and illumination, by which that holy light of salvation is beheld, that is, by which we see God clearly. Finally, we call it ‘perfection’ as needing nothing further, for what more does he need who possesses the knowledge of God? It would indeed be out of place to call something that was not fully perfect a gift of God.” …

For what ignorance has bound ill, is by knowledge loosed well; those bonds are with all speed slackened by human faith and divine grace, our transgressions being taken away by one Pœonian medicine, the baptism of the Word. We are washed from all our sins, and are no longer entangled in evil. This is the one grace of illumination, that our characters are not the same as before our washing. And since knowledge springs up with illumination, shedding its beams around the mind, the moment we hear, we who were untaught become disciples. Does this, I ask, take place on the advent of this instruction? You cannot tell the time. For instruction leads to faith, and faith with baptism is trained by the Holy Spirit.

In the same way, therefore, we also, repenting of our sins, renouncing our iniquities, purified by baptism, speed back to the eternal light, children to the Father. (Book I, Chapter 6)

there exists literally no history book written by Jesuits. In fact most history books are written by literal marxists

literally any history book will be fine

In chapter 12 of Book I, St. Clement writes:

He Himself formed man of the dust, and regenerated him by water; and made him grow by his Spirit; and trained him by His word to adoption and salvation, directing him by sacred precepts; in order that, transforming earth-born man into a holy and heavenly being by His advent, He might fulfil to the utmost that divine utterance, “Let Us make man in Our own image and likeness.” (Genesis 1:26) And, in truth, Christ became the perfect realization of what God spoke; and the rest of humanity is conceived as being created merely in His image. (Paedagogus, Bk I, Chapter 12)

In the next chapter he writes:

the transparent Word, by whom the flesh, regenerated by water, becomes precious. (Paedagogus, Chapter 13)

St. Clement teaches that in baptism we are cleansed, i.e. completely purified from our sins.

It ought to be known, then, that those who fall into sin after baptism are those who are subjected to discipline; for the deeds done before [baptism] are remitted, and those done after are purged. (Stromata, IV.24)

In chapter 12 of Book I, St. Clement writes:

He Himself formed man of the dust, and regenerated him by water; and made him grow by his Spirit; and trained him by His word to adoption and salvation, directing him by sacred precepts; in order that, transforming earth-born man into a holy and heavenly being by His advent, He might fulfil to the utmost that divine utterance, “Let Us make man in Our own image and likeness.” (Genesis 1:26) And, in truth, Christ became the perfect realization of what God spoke; and the rest of humanity is conceived as being created merely in His image. (Paedagogus, Bk I, Chapter 12)

In the next chapter he writes:

the transparent Word, by whom the flesh, regenerated by water, becomes precious. (Paedagogus, Chapter 13)

St. Clement teaches that in baptism we are cleansed, i.e. completely purified from our sins.

It ought to be known, then, that those who fall into sin after baptism are those who are subjected to discipline; for the deeds done before [baptism] are remitted, and those done after are purged. (Stromata, IV.24)

Aks

For example, Southern Baptists aren't Baptist at all. Many use this title.

You've been to all these churches? Tell me what they don't agree on. I am sure you are correct but one must find a church that preaches the word of God alone. I am also sure there are churches that have no title and are basically a continuation from the time of Christ. True churches will become harder and harder to find up until the Return of Christ. Most churches have turned their backs on God.

religion is cancer
kill yourself op

So you are in agreement?

>Preaches the word of God

The problem with that is they all have their own interpretations. The bible didn't fall out of the sky. Who do you think had the authority to compile it and decide which books to include and exclude? The Catholic Church. The bible itself says "But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."

The church alone has authority to translate scripture, not individuals who have zero basis for any sort of authority other than from themselves and their own interpretations.