Hey Irishbros How are you voting in this referendum? Are you going to repeal or keep the 8th?

Abortion.

What if the condom breaks?

Anyhow it's less about contraception and more about bodily autonomy for me personally.

NO DONT REPEAL

>Bodily autonomy.
Would you vote for a law that allows people to kill themselves when ever they feel like it?

repeal probably

There's a referendum?

Any repealist is the enemy of any true redpilled person. The fags could delude normies into thinking there were no "down-sides" to their evil triumphalism, but this thing will directly cause much evil if it goes through.

>mfw leftards and anti-burger liberal counter-signallers will complain about the ~8 people assassinated by anti-abortion people
>mfw they did nothing wrong

Good luck at learning your own language, Pakistan.

Anybody who thinks "bodily autonomy" is a reason to kill a child should have their own "bodily autonomy" removed by a RWDS.
Just saying.

Why not just wait until you are married to have sex with someone. It is not like women actually have any real sex drive, you are only interested in having babies anyway and the best possible environment for bringing up a child is in wedlock anyway, so why not just do that?

What about the child's bodily autonomy? Have an abortion if you want but you should be done for murder with it

Completely agree mate, it makes me sick to see the south so eager to legitimize dumpster babies. I can't believe these lazy cunts who can't take any responsibility for their actions and that are too fucking lazy to collect the mass amount of contraceptives being handed out to them for next to nothing.

Don't even get me started on fucking "Repeal the 8th" bullshit, MILLIONS of Euro are being siphoned into those false fucking movements, just like the gay marriage, by foreign leftist movements abroad.

Abortion is murder, I would never support the murder of children.

>d-don't kill yourself, it's i-illegal!

Are you always this much of a fucking gobshite?

>there are people in this thread who actually believe abortion is a bodies right issue

Suicide isn't illegal.

>Anybody who thinks "bodily autonomy" is a reason to kill a child
>a child

A foetus is not a child. Its life is entirely contingent on that of the mother. Until that foetus is developed enough to be viable and have a capacity for pain, the mother's bodily autonomy overrides its interests.

That's my moral view anyway. My constitutional view - i.e. the only view that matters when discussing a constitutional amendment - is that abortion is an inappropriate thing to regulate in a god damn constitution and it should be dealt with one way or another by legislation instead. Hence I favour repeal.

Until the foetus' life is viable on its own, its life is contingent on the mother's and therefore the mother's life takes precedence. I take the view that what's in the best interest of the mother's health is a decision the mother herself should have a hand in - as a person does with literally every other medical issue.

Most pro-choice people hate that alt-left SJW bullshit tbqh lad. Embarrassing, preaching to the choir, Trinity College-grade crap.

George Soros is funding the pro abortion side. m.independent.ie/irish-news/billionaire-soros-funding-groups-fighting-to-repeal-irish-abortion-ban-34980624.html

How do I reasonably project to my leftist peers that I'm against free for all abortion? What reasonable points will they understand and respect? Do leftists listen to reason?

I've noticed all the twitter profile pictures which were once "VOTE YES GAY MARRIAGE" have been changed to "REPEAL THE 8TH" what will they ask for next? Beastiality ?When will it end?

Pretty sure suicide is illegal, yeah.

Not an argument faggot.

No it's not.

It won't end, they want to show off to the rest of the world how (((modern))) they are, if we don't get our act together, our once proud country will become a Godless wasteland, deprived of morality.

>LAW: the system of rules which a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and which it may enforce by the imposition of penalties.

>which it may enforce by the imposition of penalties.

If you can't impose penalties then you can't enforce it and it therefore isn't a law, just a recommendation.

THERE IS REALLY GOING TO BE ANOTHER REFERENDUM ABOUT LEFT WING BULLSHIT?
>Ireland will never revert back to the warring clans period where we solve things by beating the shit out of each other and stealing cattle.

Cred Forums was right again

OK it was when I was growing up. Why not respond to this?

Aye.

>tfw we should never have let sectarianism undermine our ability to fight the goddamned liberals

He was obviously talking about euthanasia.

And we'd have to be pretty ancapistani-retarded to accept suicide as a legitimate choice because of muh NAP.

>A foetus is not a child. Its life is entirely contingent on that of the mother.
A birthed child is entirely contingent too.
And you're a goddamned fool if you think DUTY is not a thing that can even apply to so basic a thing as motherhood!

>Most pro-choice people hate that alt-left SJW bullshit tbqh lad. Embarrassing, preaching to the choir, Trinity College-grade crap.

And yet they accept the premises of it all, this ideology foisted upon the country through the anti-Irish elites of no less than TCD, Dáil Éireann, and RTE.
The "sane left-leaning normie" versus "insane SJW" dichotomy is a false one. You're either against them or with them.

It'll end when we sperg out and make a stand.

Underrated point.

These "social issues (im)moral crusades" are being used by international leftists to deracinate and pacify us, and it's blatantly obvious.
They funnel money into organisations that draw in the support of bandwagon-following normies, then these organisations morph into eternal quangos that stay around and with the help of the Dublin media regulate what is and isn't "acceptable" or "intellectual" to say.

Bullshit. I honestly think a "march on Dublin" is going to happen sometime in the future.

Talk about foetal capacity for pain, foetal viability, people aborting foetuses with Down's Syndrome etc. It probably won't convince them, but they're the kind of concerns they would be more receptive to.

>I've noticed all the twitter profile pictures which were once "VOTE YES GAY MARRIAGE" have been changed to "REPEAL THE 8TH" what will they ask for next?

Very curious about this. I'd stab a guess at repealing Article 41.2 of Bunreacht na hÉireann, which mandates that a woman's place is in the home. The section itself was rendered "aspirational" by the Supreme Court decades ago, but it's probably sufficient to act as a windmill for our homegrown SJWs' Quixotic campaigns.

t. inbred traveler

Blame the fecking colleges and universities, they're the breeding grounds of this shite.

repeal because I dont want a kid with some girl if contraception fails.

>people aborting foetuses with Down's Syndrome etc.
Eugenics is the only reason that I'd vote for a change in the constitution, I think I might go full edge on it to sway people towards voting against any repeal of the 8th.

I agree with you when it's health related and I know the 8th needs to be repealed to allow that but I don't like the precedent it sets. Why are people literally begging for abortions? They should be seen as a tragic affair, the ending of a life, not a desperate plea for them to be legal.

>>A foetus is not a child. Its life is entirely contingent on that of the mother. Until that foetus is developed enough to be viable and have a capacity for pain, the mother's bodily autonomy overrides its interests
>letting people stop the development of a potential life because the mother decided she's not in the mood for children

I'll never understand this. How easily people can disregard foetus's as a life. Regardless if a foetus doesn't fit your specific criteria for life, in a mere few months it will.

Anyways if this abortion thing goes through it'll just be reverted after the Great Happening as has happened every other time in history abortion has been legalised.

Juts a meme issue to further degenerate our society and stop even more white children being born if possible

Literally the entire reason it should be kept right here

trinity college student union is actively campaigning for it, student funds being spent on a political drive that was decided by future fine faíl and fine gael meme politicians.

totally cancerous

kek confirms

praise three

truly this country has no hope

we need a right wing resurgence - we need to appeal to the 60+ year old hardline catholic vote

when will the day of the rope come lads?

>A birthed child is entirely contingent too.

Not in the same way. It's not literally connected to the mother, dependant on the mother's lungs for oxygen, digestive system for food etc. It would die almost immediately but for that physical connection to the mother, which is not the case for a fully developed newborn.

>And yet they accept the premises of it all, this ideology foisted upon the country through the anti-Irish elites of no less than TCD, Dáil Éireann, and RTE.

I happen to agree with them on this very narrow constitutional issue, I don't subscribe to their ideology on it at all. Far as I'm concerned, a broken clock is right twice a day.

>The "sane left-leaning normie" versus "insane SJW" dichotomy is a false one. You're either against them or with them.

Only a Brit deals in absolutes.

They've probably already considered the point tbqh. I don't propose that it would sway them, just that they'd be more receptive to it than say

>hurr durr life begins at ejaculation

Or whatever Breda O'Brien types say.

There's a whole other philosophical question over whether it's morally correct to force a difficult life onto someone who has no say in the matter. I'm honestly undecided on that, but it doesn't really affect my view that the 8th amendment was a bad idea.

>Wanting your child to be a non-functioning autistic
>Wanting your child to have downs
>Wanting to care for the nigger baby after your wife/girlfriend gets raped by some immigrant.

Who is truly the cancer of society?

Fuck our universities are such commie shitholes. They had this vote on what the student union should shill for in my uni...the whole thing was a foregone conclusion. Pro choice faggots were allowed to speak during lectures and pro lifers were not. most of them on the student union were pro choice anyway.

Fuck abortion! we've had enough state sanctioned murder in this country.

m8 I don't want to bring some kid into the world without a caring family. I believe a kid needs a functional family to be a decent person, not a single mother and a distant father.

Be pragmatic about this, the people having kids that will grow up to be little shits are those who cant leave the country to have abortions. You legalise, or at least make them accessible, you have less knacker spawn, less junkies, less heroin babies clogging up the north inner city dublin.

I'm pro repeal, I just find the use of student union funds for campaigning on issues that aren't in the uni a bit cancerous.

It was freshers week this week, and the student union were handing out hundreds of flyers to people. pure madness.

those sort will be popping them out for child benefit bennies irregardless- those aren't the sort who even want abortion or are pushing for it

>Travellers
>the same as the noble clans

Some of them are alright though. They're not gypsies, they're more like an extended sub-portion of our ethnicity defined by a mercenary lifestyle, a bit like the Gallowglass clans of old.

Maynooth is a fucking joke in terms of being a Catholic place. The fact that it's somewhat better than the "major" eastern unis is bitter consolation.

Downies don't breed though. The "look at these humans without the full capacity of baseline humans, let's kill them to prevent them suffering" argument doesn't really relate to eugenics at all, as they literally won't breed if they're that damaged, and those inheritable illnesses that aren't crippling but instead limiting diseases are currently able to breed where nature would cut them out, thanks to the similarly un-godly mechanistic technologies of IVF and the like.
The idea that society's problems come primarily from an excess of the bottom rank and not a dearth of duty and loyalty in the top rungs is a comforting lie those same irresponsible middle and upper class hedonists tell themselves. It's not the truth.

And (voluntary) abortion is generally a net-negative in terms of eugenics (without the context of intra-racial competition, which has much more permanent and moral solutions anyway). The people who abort are generally scum, but slightly more intelligent than the same class of scum who don't care enough to abort the children they'll plop out in mass numbers and then abuse and send out into the world to continue the cycle. Over enough generations it degenerates the underclass much more than it "thins" it. Add to that the psychological effect it has by allowing women even more control over the family (literally life and death), and the removal of any limits it places on female childlessness, and you have the long-term implosion of all levels of society thanks to abortion. Is that what you want? Because that's what the left are offering you. Eat up if you want, but don't be surprised when everything around you collapses thanks thanks to your own efforts or those with the determination to stop you.

>all those threes
>in a post shitting on TCD

Maybe it's more apropos to the Holy Trinity.

>Only a Brit deals in absolutes.

ANONKIN, THE LEFT IS EVIL!

I used to be stridently pro-life, believe it or not. It took my about five years of wrestling with the issue to arrive where I am. I can't pinpoint the exact moment I changed my mind on it, but it was some time after reading the "famous violinist" thought experiment.

Quite separately from my views on abortion itself, I've come to the view that the 8th amendment was utterly futile and caused more problems than it solved. My devoutly Catholic, pro-life mother feels the same way - despite abhorring "killing babies".

>Regardless if a foetus doesn't fit your specific criteria for life, in a mere few months it will.

Yes, but we're not talking about "in a mere few months" - we're talking about when it's still a foetus.

As it happens, I do consider a foetus to be life. It's nonsense to say it isn't. My position is that the mother's bodily autonomy takes precedence over the foetus' life up until the point where the foetus is viable and/or has a capacity for pain.

Never. Only if it happens elsewhere in Europe first. We are way too small to influence the tides of change.

making them available is the first step. Ideally it'd cut down on single mothers and frankly unwanted children, which is good for society.

Raise your kids to be upstanding citizens, and dont let the rulings of the catholic church decide our nations laws.

We fought for independence from foreign rule, but let foreigners decide our laws anyway.

Keep it obviously.

You guys are cucked anyway. Literally letting the EU decide your taxes for you now.

This.

No you're not fooling anyone, you're position is entirely synched with that of the SJW feminists on this if you are using talking points like "bodily autonomy". I know that feminists aren't really interested in equal rights and that is one of the reasons why I am against them. Abortion has nothing to do with equal rights, least of all for the child.

You are, obviously.

>posts Church of England logo

West Brit gtfo

>m8 I don't want to bring some kid into the world without a caring family.

This is the problem. It's incredible to think we live in times where people think they an participate in hookup culture and then off the child before it's born.

>the people having kids that will grow up to be little shits are those who cant leave the country to have abortions

Could you be any more delusional?
>countries that legalise abortion all have great kids

>You legalise, or at least make them accessible, you have less knacker spawn, less junkies, less heroin babies clogging up the north inner city dublin.

You're a fool to think that the problem with the inner city is too much kids. The problems with the city are much larger and deal with the horrible management and the current welfare system that propagates the behaviour.

>Pro choice faggots were allowed to speak during lectures

What? Did you not think to boo?

Literally this.

It's like user doesn't realise that abortion will kill off even dysfunctional feminist-welfare-statist Irish family formation and fill up Dublin, Cork and Limerick even more with Africans (and maybe soon Muslims).

>Quite separately from my views on abortion itself, I've come to the view that the 8th amendment was utterly futile and caused more problems than it solved.

Do you mean that it allowed us to avoid ~20 years of demographic damage and got the left riled up so angrily?
Because that's not a problem, it's more the lack of a constitutional article that says "anyone opposing this should be thrown out a helicopter".

From what I understand, Poland and Hungary have the closest thing to traditionalist military juntas possible under the EU system.

We could manage it if we got out of this hedonistic variety of the "small country syndrome" and took responsibility for our own country.

>the Catholic Church is foreign rule

~t. Oisín West-Britley

>muh taxes

seriously hope you're memeing

Vote to kill the autists

>willingly giving up autonomy to a group of unelected bureaucrats

kek

Nothing. A referendum hasn't been called yet.

Adopting dogma decided in Rome as law is foreign rule.

Bowing to rulings from unelected officials in Brussels is foreign rule.

Pledging allegiance to the british crown is foreign rule.

Ireland isn't Catholicism, we should have a proper, down to earth, pragmatic discussion on why we outlawed it in the first place, what benefits it would bring to our nation and why we should even consider it.

Not because its the current year we should repeal, or its the holy thing to do to keep the 8th.

*what benefits or downsides it could bring

>My position is that the mother's bodily autonomy takes precedence over the foetus' life up until the point where the foetus is viable and/or has a capacity for pain.

The problem with that argument is that it's part and parcel with the current degradation of the west. It promotes the idea that people can be loose and don't have to take responsibility because "lmao just get an abortion who cares :^)"

The only time abortion can even be considered is in the cases of fatal fetal abnormality or when the mothers life is directly at risk. Although looking at the statistics of countries that have legalised abortion, it's clear that's not the main reason why people have them.

And as I've said earlier in the thread, this isn't the first time in history that abortion has been legalised. One only has to look at history to see what a disaster it has been

>No you're not fooling anyone, you're position is entirely synched with that of the SJW feminists on this if you are using talking points like "bodily autonomy"
>talking points

Bodily autonomy is a constitutional right within Ireland and pretty much all free countries. It's considered a pretty basic human right. The issue at hand is how it's balanced with the right to life of the foetus. Those two fundamental rights come into conflict in abortion scenarios.

In a way it's easy to take either of the extreme views:

>hurr durr life begins at conception! child's life overrides the mother's bodily autonomy and/or life in all circumstances!
>hurr durr feetuz =/= """life"""! Abortion should be allowed in all three trimesters because it is a woman's right to choose!

But in real life, you run into serious problems with those "easy" options.

On the whole, I don't really care if you doubt my bona fides or not. I'm not really out to proselytise here, just stating my views.

>Abortion has nothing to do with equal rights, least of all for the child.

Agreed in part. The equality argument is weak - there's no equivalent with men against which to measure equality. It's a right to life v. right to bodily autonomy issue, not an equality one.

You had abortion forced upon you by unelected bureaucrats 40+ years ago.

If you want to criticise us, we'd be glad to take substantive criticism. All we get from Hollywood and the BBC, and their RTE subsidiary is self-serving leftist "critique" and inaccurate, pig-headed chauvinism of the old/Unionist eternal Anglo variety.

>we can be nationalist without being traditional or theocratic

Current yearists please go.

Also your implication of isolation and absolute autarchy is absurd and counter-historical in a different but equally wrong-headed sense.

>down with Roman influence
>up with Soros influence

T R E A S O N

Soros is a manipulative globalist bastard who I hope will be dead soon.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

>>Quite separately from my views on abortion itself, I've come to the view that the 8th amendment was utterly futile and caused more problems than it solved.
>Do you mean that it allowed us to avoid ~20 years of demographic damage and got the left riled up so angrily?

m8 people who wanted abortions took €20 Ryanair flights to London and got their damn abortions. You're deluded if you think the 8th had any impact on that.

The actual negative impact of the 8th was to do with stuff like the X case, the D case, the Miss Y case and the Halappanavar case, i.e. those awkward grey areas where the 8th comes in and acts like a sledgehammer trying to swat a fly.

You should pull out of the EU. While you're right about abortion, we at least have some influence on who makes up the Supreme Court by electing our president and representatives. The EU is the most awful powergrab in history, and the fact that the Irish largely support it is shameful.

Did you get triggered by the fact your failed fascist movement were mere proddy bastard free shtater west brits in disguise?

no

>The problem with that argument is that it's part and parcel with the current degradation of the west. It promotes the idea that people can be loose and don't have to take responsibility because "lmao just get an abortion who cares :^)"

That's a total non sequitur. Respecting bodily autonomy does not mean the same thing as "you have no responsibilities".

>The only time abortion can even be considered is in the cases of fatal fetal abnormality or when the mothers life is directly at risk.

The former of those is prohibited by the 8th amendment, which tbqh is reason enough for me to vote to repeal it.

The latter is already legal under the current regime.

>And as I've said earlier in the thread, this isn't the first time in history that abortion has been legalised. One only has to look at history to see what a disaster it has been

The Freakonomics lads reckon that Roe v. Wade led to the massive decrease in crime in the 90's in the US. Obviously that thesis has its limits (the difficulty in establishing a causative link being the main one), but conversely I can't see how it's been a bad thing.

Well from that perspective, it kind of does have alot to do with equal rights. If women are given the right to abort foetuses whenever they like some will do it with or without the consent of the father. That then is an equal rights issue. Women having too many rights, which is something we want to avoid for the sake of equality. If you disagree with this you are basically saying that you have no interest in equality, which is not a very sensible idea.

You can keep asserting "bodily autonomy" as an unlimited right, and keep asserting that that includes the right to terminate another life, but that doesn't make either of them true.

You imply one minute that Catholicism is treason, while stepping into line with the underpinning of the globalist agenda.

You should start tying the words coming out of your mouth with the sparse and shallow thoughts in your head if you don't want your inconsistencies pointed out.

>m8 people who wanted abortions took €20 Ryanair flights to London and got their damn abortions. You're deluded if you think the 8th had any impact on that.

The moral principle of making a stand is the important thing. Ideally we should exile or execute them, but sticking up the two fingers in any way is great.

As for grey areas, a sensible government would have the ability to judge when justice is better served by persecuting the guilty or giving rules-lawyers precedent for bad ideas.
Doctors prioritising the mother's life in cases where they have to triage a botched pregnancy isn't even the same thing as "abortion" anyway, and would not be a valid reason for killing thousands of children and ruining our country's demographics permanently. This kind of "but what about the eggs that get broken" argument is used by spoilsport egg-suckers who deny people the right to enjoy the metaphorical omelette in the first place. If people can not make judgement calls and expect the courts or authorities to judge right from wrong, then we have no business pretending to care for being a nation that aspires to rule of law, and just go full Cummies like the repeal tards want us to.

Dude, the Ailtírí wanted a Catholic theocracy and to outright invade the north, and from there the world. Your meming has overtaken your limited reasonability.

>Well from that perspective, it kind of does have alot to do with equal rights. If women are given the right to abort foetuses whenever they like some will do it with or without the consent of the father. That then is an equal rights issue

The father doesn't have his bodily autonomy at stake in a pregnancy, whilst the mother does. It's not equivalent.

>If you disagree with this you are basically saying that you have no interest in equality, which is not a very sensible idea.

You can't win arguments by saying

>if you disagree with me you're hitler

because, you know, that's absolute nonsense.

>That's a total non sequitur. Respecting bodily autonomy does not mean the same thing as "you have no responsibilities"

Cmon now lad who are you trying to fool. The majority of people, in countries were abortion is legalised, have them because they don't want to deal with the responsibility of being a parent
>The former of those is prohibited by the 8th amendment, which tbqh is reason enough for me to vote to repeal it.

>wanting to repeal a law that will have far reaching consequences just to appeal to the 0.64% of people who will take advantage of it

>Obviously that thesis has its limits (the difficulty in establishing a causative link being the main one)

Then why even bring it up at all? We should change laws that have been considered common sense for most of western civilisation based on a hunch in a study?
(Partially unrelated but I thought the removal of leaded gas, and therefore lead in the air, was the cause of the massive decrease in crime?)

How does a pregnant mother who consented to have sex and is going to go full term with a healthy have her "bodily autonomy at stake"?

The crux of my argument was that ALL foreign influence on a nation deciding its own laws is a bad thing. How is that globalist.

Isnt that kind of the basis of all kinds of nationalist thought, that a nation decides its own?

You're making absolutely no sense, supporting a move away from globalist influence does not make me a globalist....

Equality itself is not a sensible idea.

Allowing abortion is a "freeeedums" issue, but the consequences and unfairness that will create is something feminists and other cummies-driven scum refuse to discuss, because they don't care about consistency or "principle". All they care about is outcome.

>The father doesn't have his bodily autonomy at stake in a pregnancy, whilst the mother does. It's not equivalent.

If you don't think fathers should not have any duty to their children or their mothers, then you have no leg to stand on in terms of consistency when it comes to your bogus "bodily autonomy" non-argument.

>You can't win arguments by saying
>>if you disagree with me you're hitler
>because, you know, that's absolute nonsense.

That's not what he was saying.
You're the one who thinks saying "that's not equality" is a "reductio ad Hitlerum", but meanwhile you say that anyone who doesn't want to let women wantonly murder is denying "muh yoomin rights".

Why are so many Irish people on the internet just basic-bitch American liberals from ~2 years ago?
Your arguments so far have been retarded left-wing drivel. How did you even end up on Cred Forums?

>You can keep asserting "bodily autonomy" as an unlimited right, and keep asserting that that includes the right to terminate another life, but that doesn't make either of them true.

In the comment you replied to, I talked about how it conflicts with the right to life and therefore must be balanced with the right to life. That pretty much refutes your assertion that I'm asserting bodily autonomy is an unlimited right.

I mean, that's the entire issue at hand here - how we balance those two rights. It's the centre of the whole debate.

>The moral principle of making a stand is the important thing. Ideally we should exile or execute them, but sticking up the two fingers in any way is great.

We're a civilised country. We don't execute people like some crazed Muslims or something.

Being generous and assuming we must make a moral stand, must we make it with a constitutional provision? Why not good old fashioned legislation? The constitution is for the very fundamentals of a legal system, on which everything else is built. Abortion is not fundamental to the entire legal system.

>Doctors prioritising the mother's life in cases where they have to triage a botched pregnancy isn't even the same thing as "abortion" anyway,

Come on, don't move the goalposts. Let's keep "abortion" consistent with its common meaning - terminating a pregnancy.

>Dude, the Ailtírí wanted a Catholic theocracy and to outright invade the north, and from there the world. Your meming has overtaken your limited reasonability.

Then why did they adopt the logo of the Church of England, user :^)

...

We're just going to abort the protestant kids

>It's the centre of the whole debate.
Kek. No it's not the centre of the debate is you and the rest of the godless SJWs not wanting to take responsibility for your bad decisions and us saying you should.

I think women should be able to get an abortion if they choose to, but, I'm a personally against them.

>The majority of people, in countries were abortion is legalised, have them because they don't want to deal with the responsibility of being a parent

That may be true. It doesn't really impact my position on bodily autonomy trumping the foetus' right to life though as it's based on, well, bodily autonomy. I can't hold such a position if I'm against exercising said autonomy.

>>wanting to repeal a law that will have far reaching consequences just to appeal to the 0.64% of people who will take advantage of it

I want to repeal a constitutional provision blocking the legalisation abortion in cases of fatal foetal abnormalities. That's not *necessarily* the same thing as fully legalising abortion.

What the 8th amendment actually does is prevent the Oireachtas from passing laws allowing abortion. Removing it does not mandate that the Oireacthas legalise abortion per se, it just removes the impediment to doing so. Abortion could still well be banned after repealing the 8th.

>Then why even bring it up at all?

As a counter-example to the questionable notion that abortion has wrecked society.

>We should change laws that have been considered common sense for most of western civilisation based on a hunch in a study? (Partially unrelated but I thought the removal of leaded gas, and therefore lead in the air, was the cause of the massive decrease in crime?)

Read Freakonomics, seriously. They cover all of that in the chapter on crime and it's bloody interesting in its own right, abortion aside. They considered all the options and tentatively came down on the side of Roe v. Wade being the primary reason, but with caveats.

Same, but for children up to the age of 11.

Bodily autonomy is a bogus concept anyway!

We all have a DUTY to die for what is good in the world, just as we have a DUTY not to let delinquent women murder their children.

Okay, I will clarify my language.

By "globalists" I refer to the people who are ACTUALLY the dominant force in global affairs, whose policies and propaganda designed to eliminate any particularly Irish things or moral impediments to maximum exploitation you are buying lock stock and smoking barrel.
An aspiration to have a global community with basic moral standards may technically be described as "globalist" (or as retards say, "dats universalist"), but neither of those things are bad in and of themselves seeing as there are spheres of human existence where affairs and organisation must be to some extent global.

I am a nationalist in the sense that I have realised that organic culture trumps product-based artificial culture. I'm not an isolationist in the self-defeating standards of caricature-derived "nationalism". Isolation is stagnation is death.

I'm also pointing out the absurdity of your practice that things you don't like (namely Catholicism) can be rejected for being non-exclusively Irish, whatever their intrinsic role in Irishness, yet you will fall in line with the agenda of Soros and the ilk that actually rules this country and all our peers as if that's not "globalist".

You're inconsistent as well as in favour of bad policies. Go you!

No. That's what England does.

How dare you have a moderate and mature position on the issue.

You must be one of them globalist kikes Cred Forums is always telling me about.

>How does a pregnant mother who consented to have sex and is going to go full term with a healthy have her "bodily autonomy at stake"?

Because the foetus is growing in her uterus and not the foetus' father's uterus?

And since when was consent to sex = consent to parenthood? Jesus Christ I could have kids in their teens if that was the case.

You legalized gay marriage. I trust on you to make the wrong decision again.

Some of us voted no to that, and will vote no to this too

Last time I went to visit my family in Ireland the ferry got stuck in the middle of the Irish Sea and the radar fell off.

10/10 would upgrade to premium and eat all the rocky road whilst everyone around me is being sick again.

>That's not what he was saying.

He was trying to but me in a box using some bullshit false dichotomy. I merely demonstrated the inherent nonsense of it.

>Your arguments so far have been retarded left-wing drivel. How did you even end up on Cred Forums?

I typed boards.Cred Forums.org/pol into the URL bar. How did you get here?

Cred Forums is for debate and discussion without the reddit-tier preciousness and political correctness. If you can't handle someone not having the same views as you on a famously divisive subject without throwing a bitchfit, well I feel sorry for you I guess.

So you are saying that a man's right to choose and a woman's right to choose are not equivalent because men don't have the biological prerequisite (i.e. a uterus). How is this any different than saying that women should not be pandered in science and education or paid equally in difficult work place environments because they aren't as strong or as intelligent as the top tier of men?

>stab pregnant woman in stomache
>get charged for double murder
>stab man in balls
>don't get charged for several million murders

If women get to decide when their parasitic genetic material counts as a living being or not, why can't I?

EU Teeth

Sorry for confusing your wishy-washy position with the other guy's "muh bodily autonomy" tyranny of whores. If you let it extend to murdering children, I don't see the difference desu.

>We're a civilised country. We don't execute people like some crazed Muslims or something.

If the refusal to draw the line is barbaric, then consider me ooga booga bix nood.

>Come on, don't move the goalposts. Let's keep "abortion" consistent with its common meaning - terminating a pregnancy.

I'm keeping it consistent with what the "repeal the 8th" crowd are defining it as. A bad medical situation resulting in the death of a child is NOT the same thing as the belief that wanton whores should murder their children.

>Being generous and assuming we must make a moral stand, must we make it with a constitutional provision? Why not good old fashioned legislation?

Because a government where legislation rules rather than the constitution and/or the sense of the king, there is no absolute beyond the mob and their wolf shepherds getting their way as they want it when they want it.
Do you even absolute?

Your confidence is sadly well-placed Belgium.

>He was trying to but me in a box using some bullshit false dichotomy.

That's not what he was doing. He was pointing out that giving women unlimited abortion authority is anti-equality, which it objectively is. (Not a good argument, but assuming your left-wing assumptions, it is logical).

> If you can't handle someone not having the same views as you on a famously divisive subject without throwing a bitchfit, well I feel sorry for you I guess.

Please, there's a difference between not handling disagreement and being disappointed that people are so retarded as to believe left-wing things so uncritically.

Because ending your genetic line would be a public service.

>So you are saying that a man's right to choose and a woman's right to choose are not equivalent because men don't have the biological prerequisite (i.e. a uterus).

Not quite. The issue from my perspective is the foetus' right to life versus the mother's right to bodily autonomy. The father doesn't enter the equation because the foetus' right to life doesn't come into conflict with the father's right to bodily autonomy as the father isn't carrying the foetus.

If, hypothetically, the father could carry the foetus in a uterus of his own, then the father's right to bodily autonomy would enter the equation.

>How is this any different than saying that women should not be pandered in science and education or paid equally in difficult work place environments because they aren't as strong or as intelligent as the top tier of men?

Because that scenario doesn't involve the right to life or the right to bodily autonomy. That's the exact kind of equality issue that I stated elsewhere ITT that abortion isn't.

It's mainly to do with veneers and bleaching not being a thing here.

DONT TRIGGER ME.

MAn, the Irish are all theist anti-catholic cucks now? Interesting.

Judea-Chrisitan Values have created the greatest Empires Planet Earth has ever seen.

You fags look at things with a Utopian standard instead of a realistic one.

>That's not what he was doing. He was pointing out that giving women unlimited abortion authority is anti-equality, which it objectively is.

No it objectively isn't. Men don't get pregnant, women do. It's not just that it physically affects women differently than it does men - it doesn't physically affect men at all.

>MAn, the Irish are all theist anti-catholic cucks now? Interesting.

It's what happens when a minority of the clergy are kiddie-fiddlers mass-raping their way from parish to parish while the majority of the clergy protect and enable them. Tends to destroy an organisation's reputation.

That, and the non-sexual child abuse, slavery in the Magdalene Laundries, forced adoptions, banning of porn and contraception etc.

Southern Irish have always been cowardly whiny leftist cunts. The northern are the truly based irish.

>intrinsic role

oh dear.

The catholic church used us, catholic powers used us as a pawn in wars against britain. Look at the past 100 years to see even more abuses of power.

The catholic church doesn't care about Ireland. These laws were decided at the tail end of those church dominated times Insisting on keeping dogma inspired law without a solid, foreign influence free debate is just bad governance.

>The father doesn't enter the equation because the foetus' right to life doesn't come into conflict with the father's right to bodily autonomy
But you have yet to prove that bodily autonomy is even a good argument for terminating a life. For example if you were diagnosed with a potentially fatal illness would you want euthanasia legalised? Why aren't you out campaigning for that? Or is it only in the case of unborn babies that you advocate murder? Also what about the father's right to be a father? To have a say in his own child's life? What about basic human courtesy?
>Because that scenario doesn't involve the right to life or the right to bodily autonomy.
So what? It is still an equality issue more so than the wage gap is or catcalling or any of the bullshit feminist talking points over the last number of years. It is a far bigger deal emotionally and philosophically. You are basically handing women the keys over life and death of another person's child and somehow trying to rationalise it via a legal loophole.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudabiliter

Catholic church has been fucking us over for near 900 years burger.

>That may be true. It doesn't really impact my position on bodily autonomy trumping the foetus' right to life though as it's based on, well, bodily autonomy. I can't hold such a position if I'm against exercising said autonomy.

So you want to give a woman the right to terminate a potential life just because she merely exists? Absolutely baffling

>What the 8th amendment actually does is prevent the Oireachtas from passing laws allowing abortion. Removing it does not mandate that the Oireacthas legalise abortion per se, it just removes the impediment to doing so. Abortion could still well be banned after repealing the 8th.

Haha oh come on. I won't believe you're this naive. Take a look at all the people campaiging for repeal, the groups funding it and the TD's supporting it and try to come to any conclusion that isn't fully legalised abortion.

>Read Freakonomics, seriously. They cover all of that in the chapter on crime and it's bloody interesting in its own right, abortion aside. They considered all the options and tentatively came down on the side of Roe v. Wade being the primary reason, but with caveats.

Excusing the fact that it is once again just one study, it's also worth considering that if it's hypothesis was true, surely it would be because more blacks in America have abortions? The removal of more African American youths, a group much more likely to commit crime, would line up with the theory you propose and is thus useless when applied to Ireland

get fucked m8, all 32 counties are wonderful (except Limerick).

Hey fellow italy bros i know our country is fucked but whats the least cucked party

Abortion is good. Grow up lads. Women have been doing it for thousands of years and will never stop. It's morally good since it stops unwanted lives having to suffer, and financially good since abortion is way cheaper in the long rung.

It's because the catholic church has always been a political body, it uses catholics to do it's bidding, it's cruel towards those who don't tow the line and will protect sinners in it's ranks if it's politically expedient. Martin Luther realised this 500 years ago, Ireland's still struggling though.

Hey remember when the catholic churhc deemed it heresy to translate the bible from latin and got thousands of huguenots and other protestants killed?

Identity Ireland

lol Ireland gets 30k chinks and niggers a year

fraction of ours but still a shittening country

>ITT
>Irish cuckservative faux-libertarians debate like it's 2008 and Ron Paul is still relevant

Your opinions aren't even edgy and you're no further than the basically illegal parties that would be shut down by the media-education establishment if they tried to get started.

You argue how many pregnant men could balance the wage gap without violating NAP while screeching feminists paid for by the EU and the international interests brainwash the inert normies who see the strong horse, not the NAP horse.

Having real teeth is like a woman having real tits.
It's not something to be proud of, having large fake ones.

This has been a thing here since the 60s, dominant since the 70s.
The people who can't see past it and the rest of the godless anti-Christian ideologies that have ruined Europe will be our downfall.

>it doesn't physically affect men at all.
"Physically" is an expansive caveat you have to make to pretend "this doesn't affect you". It's a pathetic diversion from the real effect this has on society and on the fetus.

>oy vey muh kiddly diddling (that we voted to officially sanctify)
>let's kill kids so they don't have to go through that

>the RCC used us

If you have a problem with authority "using" people, you should just drop out of political debate entirely you ancap scum.

>a solid, foreign influence free debate is just bad governance.

Says the Soros-puppet. You fear Christianity like a roach fears pesticide. You use "muh foreignness" as an excuse rather than a consistent principle, seeing how it's impossible to have a purely "national" existence.

>oy vey muh Norman conquest that some cuck Easterners asked for anyway

The English didn't really start fucking us over illegitimately until they became heretics, at which point the legitimacy of their claim to rule over Ireland was nullified!

Identity Ireland. Else talk to independents.

Pic related.

Southern Ireland had a rebellion because it lost 50,000 people in WW1

50,000
Less than what was killed in a day of english and french lads at the somme
bunch a fucking cowards mate

Mate I passed through dublin yesterday. It's full of chinks and sandniggers and a few irish people, I'd be sad for them if they didn't bring it on themselves

>Pic related.

I'm Welsh and couldn't care less about Britain. I'm in favour of a united Ireland. But still, I'm all for abortion. Should be instantly available at request.

>identity ireland
>cares more about having tea with other european meme parties than doing their job

nah

S-still the whitest country in western europe!

But seriously so far they're only being concentrated in Dublin. We still not as cucked than the rest of Europe

Using British working class deaths to justify British Imperialist rule? Good one.

had pretty much nothing to with it. read a history book.

>in favour of a united ireland

We should slaughter the cowardly taig scum and claim their land.

We gave them the opportunity to unite. All we requested was assistance during the second world war, and ireland would have been given complete and utter independence, whole and united.

REPEAL THE 8TH FUCK YOU

kek she looks 35 not 22, christ

>We should slaughter the cowardly taig scum and claim their land.

But you didn't lol.

Eternal Anglo pls.

Protestantism is the naked "user" of people. Your country's rotten history is the best proof out of all the cucked Germanic countries.

>muh dead heretics

Fuck them. Most of them deserved it.
Protestantism killed the loyal, the Inquisition killed the disloyal.

The deaths in WW1 weren't the cause. The Irish soldiers were volunteers. People may have feared conscription, but what motivated the actual 1916 people was the delay in getting home rule and their own martyrdom complex. (More like martyrdumb complex - we'd have united Ireland if they'd waited for the British empire to collapse due to the stupid wars).

And it wasn't cowardly. It was prudence.
What was cowardly was the British "home front", where they refused to stamp down on feminist and socialist SJWs who held strikes in the arms factories and got their own men killed.

M8, we're talking about human lives, not sheep or Welsh babies.

>But you have yet to prove that bodily autonomy is even a good argument for terminating a life.

>For example if you were diagnosed with a potentially fatal illness would you want euthanasia legalised?

Yes.

>Why aren't you out campaigning for that?

I'm not out campaigning for anything.

>Or is it only in the case of unborn babies that you advocate murder?

I don't advocate murder.

>Also what about the father's right to be a father?

What does that even mean in practical terms? Specifically in the context of pregnancy, does that mean the father makes decisions as regards the mother's body - i.e. whether or not she may have an abortion?

>What about basic human courtesy?

That's not my concern really here, I've been talking about law not courtesy.

If we're talking about manners, then yeah it's probably good manners to involve the father in some way - depending on the circumstances obviously. It's different if it's a married/long-term stable relationship versus a scenario where the mother and father don't really know each other.

>>Because that scenario doesn't involve the right to life or the right to bodily autonomy.
>So what?

So it's different because there's no aspect of bodily autonomy involved. Perhaps you can explain the right to bodily autonomy dimension of the scenario to me?

>It is still an equality issue

Just because a scenario is different for men than it is for women does not necessarily mean it's an equality issue. In this case, i.e. pregnancy, there's literally no equivalent in men.

Oh yeah I forgot, you had a rebellion in the middle of fucking WW1 and then cried when the cunts were executed for treason during wartime.

Who let a DCU student on here?

Say that again to me in latin, because if you can't read latin you're a heretic and you need to get on that pyre mate.

>human lives
No, we're talking about catholic irish lives, which are worth far less than that of a human.

They must have run out of train carriages.

m8 the British state has done enough damage to them

>M8, we're talking about human lives, not sheep or Welsh babies.

Sheep are better than whining unwanted sprogs

>m8 the British state has done enough damage to them
Fuck off SJW, unless you think building all their cities for them and raising them up from fucking tribesmen is oppresshun

m8 the debate had been raging for years previous, Home rule had been granted but postponed by the war.

>So you want to give a woman the right to terminate a potential life just because she merely exists? Absolutely baffling

Potential life =/= life, but yes to a degree. We all have a constitutional right to bodily autonomy and (saying this for the billionth time ITT) I believe that bodily autonomy comes ahead of the foetus' right to life UNLESS the foetus is viable outside the womb and/or has the capacity for pain.

>Haha oh come on. I won't believe you're this naive. Take a look at all the people campaiging for repeal, the groups funding it and the TD's supporting it and try to come to any conclusion that isn't fully legalised abortion.

I'm not that naive and in fairness, I didn't say that. I said repealing the 8th is not the same thing as legalising abortion, which is accurate.

>Excusing the fact that it is once again just one study, it's also worth considering that if it's hypothesis was true, surely it would be because more blacks in America have abortions? The removal of more African American youths, a group much more likely to commit crime, would line up with the theory you propose and is thus useless when applied to Ireland

Just read it, seriously. They devote an entire chapter to that crime wave and they consider more than just one study. They talk about why the fall in crime can't be explained by x, y and z and then say it's most likely that it was Roe v. Wade but far from certain.

Your hunch, minus the racism, is more or less correct. Their point was that a whole generation of children that would've been born to young single mothers who would've been terrible parents suddenly weren't being born - meaning that one generation later those would-be criminals weren't there anymore. tl;dr wanted children do better in life and are better for society

Applying it to Ireland - can you imagine how much nicer town would be if it weren't overrun with scaldy teenage knackers spawned by unwed teenage mothers from Tallaght?

I'm voting to keep the 8th.

Also: this thread. I feel like Squidward in that spongebob episode where he moves into a town filled with other like minded squidwards, just with Irish flags, instead of squidwards.

you're being lied to by the repeal campaign
abortion is legal if the mothers health is at risk

And you cried because a few traitors got executed in wartime. What the fuck did you expect? You don't start trying to destabilist the country during a fucking world war, which we didn't even make you fight in. Irish are just fucking pussies

Nice try heretic, but the truth of it is that what was banned was unauthorised translations, where heretics would inevitably insert their own warped dogmas.
The Doauy-Reims version predates the King James version retarded Protestants treat as a new and final revelation.

English disapprobation only makes us stronger.

>Sheep are better than whining unwanted sprogs
National motto of Wales.

And they say Cred Forums isn't a safe space...

Kek.

10/10 description.
The burgers, leaves and upside down cunts aren't that bad after all.

>Irish nationalism is just one "tradition"/narrative

This meme needs to die.

Given the deliberately exacerbated starvation of Ireland and military occupation that lasted centuries with them being second class citizens in their own country, which continues to this day, yeah they have suffered.

Anyone who plans to vote repeal needs to think hard about what side they're on.
We're one of the only countries in Europe with a birthrate high enough to not need mass immigration, you'll be voting to change that

What was banned was all translations from latin, the church feared that they would lose their contorl over the masses if they could actually read the bible. Gee they sure are nice guys, glad you enjoy sucking itlian cock so much, or maybe it is the priest who sucks your cock, I hear they like to do that.

Remember the Boyne

That's how it all starts

>i-it's oaky they're put in the most important city in our country it's fine haha

You already voted in gay marriage, if you keep voting for liberal bullshit you might as well re-join the UK. At-least you'd provide a counter-balance to Scotcucks.

>which continues to this day
Irish are still second class citizens in ireland, and that's somehow the british fault? Even though we don't control them and gave them independence.

The mental gymnastics gets better and better

So you are in favour of all aspects of bodily autonomy? Fair enough. I agree that if you felt like dying that you should be allowed to off yourself, if you so wish. I'm just not so keen on you murdering someone else's child. And it is murder. Had you done nothing the viable foetus would have been born, so you're action took a life, making you a murderer. Euthanasia or assisted death is also a type of murder.

>does that mean the father makes decisions as regards the mother's body - i.e. whether or not she may have an abortion?
Well that's what I'm asking? Why not? If we have abortion legalised and we have equal rights, which feminists are also campaigning for then we as men should be allowed to send our women to an abortion clinic if we don't want a child. In fact this will undoubtedly happen whether you like it or not, resulting in (guess what?) a battered and possibly suicidal woman; the very thing you want to avoid

>What about basic human courtesy?
>That's not my concern really here
I'm fully aware of that, which is why I brought it up.

>It's different if it's a married/long-term stable relationship versus a scenario where the mother and father don't really know each other.
And how is you're law going to promote that difference? Would it bother you if it didn't? No, is the answer, since you haven't even mentioned it before now.

>Perhaps you can explain the right to bodily autonomy dimension of the scenario to me?
Perhaps you can explain why there has to be a right to bodily autonomy dimension to every point to do with equal rights?

>Just because a scenario is different for men than it is for women does not necessarily mean it's an equality issue.
It does though. Because as it stands in the eyes of feminists there is no difference between men and women, we are equal. It doesn't matter if you have a penis or a vagina, remember? All that matters is common courtesy and equal rights.

>most inportant
understatement
The greater Dublin area and its surrounding commuter belt is probably close to 1/2 the population by now
If Dublin goes the country goes

I just gave you a counter-example.
But of course being a heretic you'd refuse to see the truth.

In Northern Ireland, yes. Ireland isn't independent and Britain still exercises a great deal of control over them.

...

we'd be the exact same as the scotcucks

Have you ever even been to norn iron you stupid cunt? The majority views itself as british and want to remain in britain. The good friday agreement says that if they vote to leave britain then they are free to do so.

You're a fucking idiot, seriously.

Damn that image is accurate as fuck.

People like Connolly ruined Irish nationalism forever by interlinking it with leftism

Irish nationalism is intrinsically leftist.

norn iron fag here living in england

keep abortions illegal...keep the white race going

Deep in your heart, you know what the right choice is.

I cant find my gif.

thats why I don't refer to myself as an Irish nationalist anymore

It's a colony, that originated with the confiscation of land from the natives. The thieves' descendants still benefit to this day.

Made it great you mean. Nationalism in oppressed countries will always be left wing in outlook. Same thing in Vietnam, China, Palestine etc.

...

>The thieves' descendants
You mean the Irish?

I'm just going to assume you're baiting for the sake of my own sanity.

>So you are in favour of all aspects of bodily autonomy? Fair enough. I agree that if you felt like dying that you should be allowed to off yourself, if you so wish. I'm just not so keen on you murdering someone else's child. And it is murder. Had you done nothing the viable foetus would have been born, so you're action took a life, making you a murderer. Euthanasia or assisted death is also a type of murder.

I've said all I can really say to this and we're no closer to reconciling, so going to leave you with what helped me see the other side of the argument back when I was a fairly concrete pro-lifer.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Defense_of_Abortion

(specifically the first thought experiment)

>>does that mean the father makes decisions as regards the mother's body - i.e. whether or not she may have an abortion?
>Well that's what I'm asking? Why not?

Well let's play it out then. Suppose the mother wants to terminate the pregnancy and the father doesn't. Who prevails?

I would argue the mother's wish trumps the father's because it's her body that's affected and thus her decision. If the father's wish trumped the mother's, then that would be denying the mother autonomy over her own body.

> If we have abortion legalised and we have equal rights, which feminists are also campaigning for then we as men should be allowed to send our women to an abortion clinic if we don't want a child.

That's essentially the inverse of above. If the father could order the mother to have an abortion against her will, it would also be denying the mother autonomy over her own body.

If you want to talk about so-called "financial abortions", I'm honestly somewhat sympathetic.

>And how is you're law going to promote that difference? Would it bother you if it didn't? No, is the answer, since you haven't even mentioned it before now.

I don't think manners are a matter of law tbqh.

1/2

>Potential life =/= life, but yes to a degree. We all have a constitutional right to bodily autonomy and (saying this for the billionth time ITT) I believe that bodily autonomy comes ahead of the foetus' right to life UNLESS the foetus is viable outside the womb and/or has the capacity for pain.

Incredible dissonance there mate. I wish I had the ability to de-humanise that well. Once again it's the argument that a foetus isn't human based on specific man made criteria. It's this kind of conceit that's destroying the west.

>I'm not that naive and in fairness, I didn't say that. I said repealing the 8th is not the same thing as legalising abortion, which is accurate.

And again, the Repeal the 8th campaign would disagree.

>Your hunch, minus the racism, is more or less correct.

It's not racism is it's true lad ;)

>Applying it to Ireland - can you imagine how much nicer town would be if it weren't overrun with scaldy teenage knackers spawned by unwed teenage mothers from Tallaght?

Again this meme. The knackers in Town are not Town's problem, but a symptom of it's many problems. Abortion wouldn't vastly clean up it's streets like you think. Also it's just an incredibly dark thought to decide certain people shouldn't be born because they have some statistical chance of becoming a poor knacker or a criminal. Every Irish person should have a chance of life and shouldn't just be thrown away because the mother isn't in the mood to have kids or charts say that they are more likely to turn out bad.

>>Perhaps you can explain why there has to be a right to bodily autonomy dimension to every point to do with equal rights?

There doesn't have to be. The right (or lack thereof) to terminate a pregnancy involves the right (or restriction of the right) to bodily autonomy by its very nature.

I reiterate - I don't see an equal rights issue here at all. I see a right to life and right to bodily autonomy issue. You're the one who keeps on asserting it's an equal rights issue.

>>Just because a scenario is different for men than it is for women does not necessarily mean it's an equality issue.
>It does though. Because as it stands in the eyes of feminists there is no difference between men and women, we are equal. It doesn't matter if you have a penis or a vagina, remember? All that matters is common courtesy and equal rights.

I flat out do not care what the fuck feminists think.

>Force Irish out of north eastern quarter of the country
>replace them with Scottish settlers
>claim you own the land based on Protestant unionist majority

Believing that the British Government has no right in Ireland, never had any right in Ireland, and never can have any right in Ireland, the presence in any one generation of Irishmen, ready to die to affirm that truth, makes that Government for ever a usurpation and a crime against human progress.

I personally thank God that I have lived to see the day when thousands of Irish men and boys, and hundreds of Irish women and girls, were ready to affirm that truth, and to attest it with their lives if need be

James Connolly - in speech to the Court Martial that sentenced him to death on May 9, 1916.

the descendants of the British Protestant colonists. Outsiders that established superiority unjustly. Never heard of the Penal Laws?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_Laws_(Ireland)#Ascendancy_rule_1691.E2.80.931778

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pale

doesn't matter because even if the entire country disagrees Dublin will always bow down to the jew

its fuckin disgusting and the fact you pay taxes even when the south gives no public services at all including bin collection for ffs they demand you give your bank account details to the bin companies like seriously people grow a pair and start rising up to that shit.

I had a look at the violinist argument and honestly if that is what persuaded you then I think you are mentally ill. There is a big difference between having sex with someone and making new life and being kidnapped and having you body drained of fluids and if you can't see that I honeslty feel sorry for you.

>I wish I had the ability to de-humanise that well. Once again it's the argument that a foetus isn't human based on specific man made criteria. It's this kind of conceit that's destroying the west.

Going in circles here. I'm not saying the foetus isn't a life, I'm saying "potential life" isn't the same as life. "Potential life" includes things like unfertilised eggs and sperm cells. If ending "potential life" is tantamount to murder, so is having a wank or getting your period.

My position is that a) the foetus is a life; b) it has the right to life; c) while its existence is contingent on that of the mother's, the mother's rights to life and/or bodily autonomy override the foetus' right to life; and d) once a foetus is viable outside the womb, a mother's right to bodily autonomy no longer overrides its right to life as its life is no longer contingent on that of the mother's.

All lives involved are human. There's no dehumanising, just a balancing of rights.

>>I'm not that naive and in fairness, I didn't say that. I said repealing the 8th is not the same thing as legalising abortion, which is accurate.
>And again, the Repeal the 8th campaign would disagree.

And again, the Repeal the 8th campaign would be wrong. That's not how the constitution works.

>I had a look at the violinist argument and honestly if that is what persuaded you then I think you are mentally ill

It didn't persuade me by itself, it got me thinking about the other side of the argument. Years later I changed my mind.

>There is a big difference between having sex with someone and making new life and being kidnapped and having you body drained of fluids and if you can't see that I honeslty feel sorry for you.

What if the person was raped?

Look you're the bestest, but nationalism isn't leftist.
The whole left vs right isn't black and white.
When it comes to ideologies there isn't just two, there is actually quite a few,
There is actually two more, and that makes four.
This is important so don't take this as abhorrent.
There's left and right, and for now that's tight.
But there's also conservatives and libs, these aren't fibs.
Join them together and create a tether,
between conservative and left, and if I might, the libs and the right.
You can be lib, and this might sting, but also right wing.
You can be progressive, but in hating gays be obsessive.
You can serve God, but on the disenfranchised, you don't trod.
You can suck a dick, but the right wing is your pick.

When you look beneath the lid, ideology is like a grid.
A 4x4 grid, you'll understand even if you're a kid.

It goes:

Liberal-left---Liberal-right
I I
Conserv-left---Conserve-right

This is how it looks, I know you don't give two fucks,
but you should, unless you're from the hood.

But it's the truth, like my sisters name is Ruth.

So Irish nationalism isn't liberal, don't take it literal,
Conservative-left, it's more like, which upsets the kike.

I teach people things because, I'm a knowledge enhancer, plz reply if this post gave you cancer.

>What if the person was raped?
What if they were? Who cares? It is not the foetuses fault that it's mother doesn't know how to look after herself and dress modestly. Even with a baby of that sort it is still deeply disturbed and disturbing to imagine a baby, which is half you, as some kind of parasite. You are beginning to sound more and more like those deranged feminist SJWs with each passing comment. You know the ones you claim not to care about.

Sad times we live in when a mother's life is considered more important than her child's. Sad times indeed

>My position is that a) the foetus is a life; b) it has the right to life;

Clearly not if you think that it's destiny is in the will of it's parent

>All lives involved are human. There's no dehumanising, just a balancing of rights.

If this theory was correct than you would see it appear more often in history, as it's the natural balance of rights. There's some quote that says "Some truths are as old as man"

>And again, the Repeal the 8th campaign would be wrong. That's not how the constitution works

You sound like Remain campaigners arguing the Brexit referendum didn't actually mean Britain didn't had to leave the EU. You're a fool if you think the Dáil won't fully legalise it after a very "modern" and "positive" referendum outcome

I'm Irish and haven't exposed myself to any Irish news in the last year or so

I do see signs and shit all over the bloody city about the 'repeal the 8th' and such

Anything that sticks it to the former totalitarian church rests well with me

>What if the condom breaks?

Then you raise the child like a responsible adult you degenerate fuck

>It is not the foetuses fault that it's mother doesn't know how to look after herself and dress modestly.

Way to get your dumb fuck opinion dismissed pretty much immediately

Wait what do you mean? Dismissed by whom? Do you even know where you are? That argument has been had and won years ago here m8.

Cuck detected

You don't belong here. Leave.

>Way to get your dumb fuck opinion dismissed pretty much immediately

This. The better argument would have been to say that it's ridiculous to change the law to suit the 1.85% of people who get abortions because of rape. Remember lads, lefties shut you down immediately if you hit them with anything other than hard facts

>implying raising another man's child because you couldn't get it aborted isn't being a cuck

>What if they were? Who cares? It is not the foetuses fault that it's mother doesn't know how to look after herself and dress modestly

Let's presume for the sake of argument that the rape was through no fault of the now-expecting mother. You said:

>There is a big difference between having sex with someone and making new life and being kidnapped and having you body drained of fluids

Is that difference not that the person consented to sex but not to be connected up to the famous violinist? Then what of scenarios where the now-expecting mother did not consent to sex?

>Clearly not if you think that it's destiny is in the will of it's parent

If I didn't believe the foetus had a right to life I wouldn't have a problem with late-term elective abortions, which I do. This balancing of the foetus' right to life versus the mother's right to bodily autonomy is how I draw the line on where abortion is permissible and where it isn't.

>You sound like Remain campaigners arguing the Brexit referendum didn't actually mean Britain didn't had to leave the EU.

It doesn't. It was a non-binding referendum. All British referendums are by virtue of its constitutional law, i.e. parliament is sovereign.

>You're a fool if you think the Dáil won't fully legalise it after a very "modern" and "positive" referendum outcome

For fuck's sake... once again, I'm not saying they wouldn't. I am saying the mere act of repealing the 8th amendment is not the same as legalising abortion. They are two different things.

>every child should have a caring family!
>those who don't should be killed.

You're a real humanitarian.

We should certainly prevent any more unwanted people being born.

>If I didn't believe the foetus had a right to life I wouldn't have a problem with late-term elective abortions, which I do. This balancing of the foetus' right to life versus the mother's right to bodily autonomy is how I draw the line on where abortion is permissible and where it isn't.

Once again you're saying abortion is only wrong after an artificially imposed period of time. Care to state exactly when the unborn is no longer considered less than human and earn it's rights?

>For fuck's sake... once again, I'm not saying they wouldn't. I am saying the mere act of repealing the 8th amendment is not the same as legalising abortion. They are two different things.

Then why on Earth bring it up in the first place? If everyone knows a successful referendum would lead to the legalising of abortion, why bother arguing semantics?

Once again, it isn't the fault of the baby, which has half of your own gentic material anyway. You can't punish one human being for the crimes of another person. But in any case, you have retreated all the way back to a hypothetical which is fucking lightyears away from what the repeal camp wants, which is an all out moratorium on the ban. I agree that there could be grounds for abortion in the socalled x case for example, so I guess we have parity, as is always the case. Keep abortion with the possibility of some minor changes like the x case, but otherwise keep it.

N. Irish fag.

What referendum? What polls are out?

No referendum yet friendo. Just lefties pushing hard for one

Referendum to legalise abortion.

Am I right in saying yous lot will have to hold a referendum on the common defence policy when the EU calls for one? Doesn't it say in your constitution that you have to be neutral?

>implying exceptions can't be written into any law

You can draft a law that says "abortion is not permitted except in the following circumstances" you know.

>Once again you're saying abortion is only wrong after an artificially imposed period of time. Care to state exactly when the unborn is no longer considered less than human and earn it's rights?

When it is viable outside the womb and/or has the capacity for pain. That obviously depends on the pregnancy, but it's not arbitrary as it's based on objective medical criteria.

>Then why on Earth bring it up in the first place? If everyone knows a successful referendum would lead to the legalising of abortion, why bother arguing semantics?

Because you said in this post >>wanting to repeal a law that will have far reaching consequences just to appeal to the 0.64% of people who will take advantage of it

My point is that repealing a constitutional ban on abortion (i.e. the 8th amendment) is not tantamount to legalising abortion. You can be in favour of repealing the 8th without being in favour of fully legalising abortion, e.g. repealing the 8th to legalise abortion in the case of fatal foetal abnormalities (FFAs).

For instance, the above quote was in response to me saying that the FFAs issue was sufficient for me to want to repeal it and your counter to that was that fully legalising abortion just to allow abortion in cases of FFAs was overkill. Hence why I brought up the difference.

>Am I right in saying yous lot will have to hold a referendum on the common defence policy when the EU calls for one?

Probably not.

>Doesn't it say in your constitution that you have to be neutral?

No, that's done by legislation. That being said, we have a veto at EU level over that kind of stuff so if it were to go ahead, it would likely be opt-in and we'd be unlikely to go for it given how much we prize neutrality and general inoffensiveness.

Article 29, section 4, subsection 9° of the Constitution:

The State shall not adopt a decision taken by the European Council to establish a common defence pursuant to Article 42 of the Treaty on European Union where that common defence would include the State.

Bump/

That's to do with just EU defence stuff, not neutrality in general. It was added onto the constitutional amendments enabling the ratification of the Nice Treaty the second time around to calm fears about the creation of a European Army.

The triple-lock neutrality stuff comes from statute.

Yes you retard.
>Man attempted to kill himself by slitting his throat, but a doctor saved him. The doctor warned that it would be useless to hang him -- the rope would merely cause the sutures to break and he would breathe through the hole in his throat that he'd cut in the suicide attempt. The doctor was ignored, but his words proved true. The aldermen convened to decide how to proceed and they decided to bind his neck below the wound. Thus he was executed.

>Pretty sure suicide is illegal, yeah.
Holy shit how retarded can you be?

>it was when I was growing up
Are you fucking 70 or what? And why would you want it to be illegal.
>inb4 "muh bible"

>You can draft a law that says "abortion is not permitted except in the following circumstances" you know.

Would never happen. The main argument for abortion right now is that it's a womans right over her own body. Any limitation on that after a supposedly popular referendum would not be tolerated at all. Why would politicians risk doing something sensible if it could lose them votes?

>When it is viable outside the womb and/or has the capacity for pain.
Disregarding the first point which is ludicrous, a foetus doesn't develop the capacity for pain over night. It's grows throughout it's cycal and thus is unmeasurable when it can truly feel pain.

>My point is that repealing a constitutional ban on abortion (i.e. the 8th amendment) is not tantamount to blah blah blah

If you, I and everyone else in the nation knows that a successful repeal campaign would fully legalise abortion, why bother arguing the constitutional merit of what the referendum actually entails?

>For instance, the above quote was in response to me saying that the FFAs issue was sufficient for me to want to repeal it and your counter to that was that fully legalising abortion just to allow abortion in cases of FFAs was overkill. Hence why I brought up the difference.

See above. If you think voting to repeal the 8th will only legalise abortion for cases of FFA you're incredibly naive. It's an absolutely useless point to bring up. I am still correct in what I said about it

Yeah but EU wants a European Army. Which thus requires a referendum. Which you will reject. So...

>It is not the foetuses fault that it's mother doesn't know how to look after herself and dress modestly
You think rapists care how much a woman's wearing? If they see a young woman walking home at night they're going to follow her regardless of how much she's wearing. Even if she's covered in three layers you think that's going to stop them? If someone's willing to put a knife to a girl's throat and force his way in her you think a pair of jeans is going to stop him?

Jesus fuck I wish abortion was legal 15 years ago so your mother didn't have to put up with whatever mental condition you have for all this time.

>Would never happen. The main argument for abortion right now is that it's a womans right over her own body. Any limitation on that after a supposedly popular referendum would not be tolerated at all. Why would politicians risk doing something sensible if it could lose them votes?

>this would happen
>that wouldn't happen

We don't hold popular referendums as glorified opinion polls. Irish referendums are for one thing and one thing only - constitutional amendments. They're not directives or diktats issued to the Oireachtas, they merely add, remove or modify the constitution. The Oireachtas acts within the limits set by said constitution.

>Disregarding the first point which is ludicrous

How convenient of you. It's how the limit in Roe v. Wade was set, but you obviously know better than SCOTUS judges.

>If you, I and everyone else in the nation knows that a successful repeal campaign would fully legalise abortion, why bother arguing the constitutional merit of what the referendum actually entails?

Because the debate is about a constitutional amendment.

> If you think voting to repeal the 8th will only legalise abortion for cases of FFA you're incredibly naive.

Come on. I've explained this at least three times.

If you want to legalise abortion in the case of FFAs, you have to repeal the 8th. That is my point.

It's more nuanced than that. If they want to make it so that we have to join - i.e. establish a common defence policy through Art. 42 TEU - then we would have to have a referendum which we would probably reject. But if they create an EU army through Member States voluntarily opting in to this EU army, then we wouldn't have to join and therefore we wouldn't need to have a referendum.

The EU knows this and as such, will probably go the opt-in route.

I'm voting repeal. Have you guys ever seen Finglas?

Jeremy Kyle tier.

Does the CSO count rape babies. I bet it's very low. Abortion will impact mostly on middle class people, nakers and scum will still pump them out to get on the housing list.

Babby's first post.

There are perfectly valid reasons for not legalising euthanasia in a country, which you should look into. Suicide was legalised in 1993, so not too long ago. Obviously suicide is not beneficial to society and there should be other methods to eleviating the problem other than the government just legallising suicide. Imagine if that was the governments solution to every problem; just kys.

Same thing goes for abortion. We should respect the institution of marriage, it is a good way for people to get together and have regular sex which leads to heathy children. Hooks ups, condoms, AIDs, and abortions are boring, overrated, and offensive to most people and they make everyone miserable. You're just not old enough to appreciate that yet. This should not be the solution to bad life choices > more bad life choices.

You should read the thread. Repeal will only make what you fear a worse reality.

>Abortion will impact mostly on middle class people

... who already get their abortions in England.

keep

Stokes hated Irish Roman Catholics.

Its an attempt to wipe out lower income native Irish by brainwashing and abortion to bring in more immigrant colonists and destroy the nation..

>dem quints

Your voting repeal because you've been cucked by the left. Yes Finglas is shit. The question is whether you want it full of what is at least our own shit or immigrant gangs.

I have no clue what OP's question meant,
but this is the correct answer

Good point. I just want to see a referendum happen so you can stick 2 fingers at the EU desu.

It's the truth.

Just look at the pro abortion people they hate Irish Roman Catholics. They think its great fun to get the majority of the people of this country to fund something they consider a moral evil.

wasted

.

>You think rapists care how much a woman's wearing?
Yes, the self respecting ones do. Also it is not 'how much' they are wearing. Studies were done that show if a woman walks down the street entirely naked her chances of getting raped are far less than if she is dressed provacatively. If a woman is dressed provacatively it means that she is out looking for sex, if sex finds her she should be willing to put out, if not then her getting raped is at least half her fault. Also fuck off Ahmed.

If they can get their abortions done in England then they don't need to get them done here. Problem solved.

You're the only one talking about euthanasia.

>Suicide was legalised in 1993, so not too long ago
Not an argument.

The government should work to help suicidal individuals get past what they're going through instead of punishing them.

>Hooks ups are boring
To a virgin twit like you maybe.

>AIDs are boring, overrated
What the fuck are you even saying you stupid whore?

>We should respect the institution of marriage
Divorce is legal and so is gay marriage. It's fair to say the Irish government stopped caring about your idea of marriage long ago.

>You're just not old enough to appreciate that yet
Big talk coming from you. There's way in hell you're older than 15 and seriously believe the shit you're spouting.

As is standard for a Brit I guess. As someone who's quite pro-EU, I really wish you'd all gtfo already. You've done nothing but shit the place up since you joined.

I'm pro-choice, I hate the SJW alt-left REPEAL jumper types and also the Church.

So your problem with abortion is not the act itself, but the location where it's carried out?

>the self respecting rapists
This is it. This is the least intelligent post ever made on Cred Forums.

>If a woman is dressed provacatively it means that she is out looking for sex
You have obviously never met a woman. They like to dress up to go out with friends and feel pretty. Same reason women wear make-up at work, they're not looking to fuck their boss, they do it for themselves.

>fuck off Ahmed
You're the one that thinks a woman wearing a short skirt deserves rape you stupid sandnigger.

Mary Stokes quote

"I agree with the present position of breeding chiefly from the C3 population and burdening and discouraging the A1 is nationally deplorable, and if I am elected to Parliament, I will press the Ministry of Health to give such scientific information through the Ante-natal Clinics, Welfare Centres and other institutions in its control as will curtail the C3 and increase the A1"

The aim is no genocide lower income white Irish Roman Catholics via abortion and brainwashing.

So if we want less people on low income how come the country has see it's population changed so 20% is now non native and a jump to 50,000 muslims and 50,000 black African in just 20 years?

Vote to keep it the pro abortion people HATE Irish Roman Catholics as must as Elizabeth 1st,

lel. Not our fault Romanians and Bulgarians migrate to hundred's of thousands because we're rich.

If you ever become rich then white genocide will happen.

>I'm pro-choice, I hate the SJW alt-left REPEAL jumper types and also the Church.

You can bet that they will keep importing low income immigrants while abortion is promoted at low income Irish girls.

Don't do it. Don't betray your nation.

>lel. Not our fault Romanians and Bulgarians migrate to hundred's of thousands because we're rich.

Negligible amounts of Romanians and Bulgarians came to the UK, despite the Daily Mail's memes.

>If you ever become rich then white genocide will happen.

Hate to break it to you, but Ireland is better off than Northern Ireland these days.

Haven't a breeze what the fuck you're on about, sorry m8.

It's plus 200,000. And rising. That's a massive amount in a short amount of time. And they also bring their gypsies with them.

And your second point is a strawman argument. N. Ireland is poor but we're white. England is rich and they're cucked. Like I said, if you become remotely rich then you will be flooded by 100,000s of people coming each year.

Well you will pay or it or people with medical cards. So you will be paying for something you think is wrong.

You can't sit on a fence and have it both ways.

You're a retard. Read the thread.

>Not an argument.
It was information; learn the difference.

>The government should work to help suicidal individuals get past what they're going through instead of punishing them.
I agree. ?

>To a virgin twit like you maybe.
You're a degenerate as well then I see.

>caring about your idea of marriage long ago.
Which is why I spoke about reinstating it. again ?

>Big talk coming from you.
You're a retard. This is an anonymous message board. You don't know anything about me.

>older than 15
Not an argument. You really are thick as shit aren't you?

You figure it out.

It was a joke ffs. You moron.

>they do it for themselves.
they do it for each other. They do it to get laid. Truth is it doesn't matter why they do it. They have no agency. Fuck off back to your desert and your fifty wives, Ahmed.

>Like I said, if you become remotely rich then you will be flooded by 100,000s of people coming each year.

Just how insular are you up there? We've been rich since the 90's and 10% of the population is foreign born. Your doomsday prophecy has already happened. We have way more immigrants as a proportion of the population than the UK has ever had.

Do people in NI seriously buy those loyalist memes of us all being backwards, potato-munching, dirt poor bog trotters who sacrifice our first borns to a graven image of the Pope? Bizarre, although tbf conversely at this point we pretty justifiably look at the North as our Mexico.

>MAn, the Irish are all theist anti-catholic cucks now? Interesting.Judea-Chrisitan Values have created the greatest Empires Planet Earth has ever seen.You fags look at things with a Utopian standard instead of a realistic one.

It's seen as hip by your urban millennia's to spit on their forefathers and be so so trendily brainwashed into 'muh abortion'

The two biggest genocides in Ireland were not carried out by the Roman Catholic church let they love the Saudi Arabians government telling the UN we 'have' to have abortion while they export Saudis here to take the place of unborn children.

I can't be bothered responding to each of your """"points"""". But I will congratulate you on baiting me this hard, I almost thought you were serious for a while. You should know that keeping this attitude when you start college will mean you'll stay a virgin forever.

You watch the BBC too much. Love the way you give the state a free pass just like RTE wanted you to.

Abortion is an industry and one that set it sights on Ireland. Its promotion is done by groups that hate people of Irish Roman Catholic descent.

The pro abortion movement is composed of SJWs, Marxists, London lobbyists and the Saudis.

Keep the 8th.

Catholic church never geocoded Ireland. London did twice. Go fuck yourself you leftist schill.

Ever heard of a little thing called the penal laws?

I almost never watch the BBC, rarely watch Irish TV at all never mind RTÉ.

You're just going to have to deal with the fact we're not all utterly cucked ring-kissers like you anymore.

Brainwashed by London. Catholic church was at the heart of the home rule movement under O'Connel and the penal laws were a full force tool of colonisation.

Vote against abortion.

I'm not interested in advice from a friendless, degenerate, blue-pilled virgin like you. Stop making so many assumptions.

NO thanks we like having an Irish population.

Over 200,000-- actually Ireland had one of the highest per capaita death rates in WW1 as we were used as cannon fodder.

The catholic church fucking abused ireland for years, it had a terrible grip on both social and political values and all in all was absolutely shite. Fuck the church I'm looking forward to modern ireland

You don't get it do you?

The reason Bulgarians and Romanians aren't coming to Ireland is because the UK is better than Ireland in literally every single way. We're richer, bigger, more influential and have established minority communities. Why would a Romanian go to Ireland if he could go to the UK where a lot of his friends already are, earn more money, live in a better house and (((integrate))) better in the country.

Now that the UK is shutting the doors, they'll be going to the next most prosperous country. That's Germany, France and if Ireland gets wealth, they will be going to you. The UK has absorbed all these people and shielded them away from you because we're superior in every single way (and I don't say that to brag). Now with the immigration control, you are at risk.

And the UK's foreign born population is 15%, with a much bigger population. So your point is moot.

Do as you wish in wales. This is an independent nation not licking Londons boot and taxing people to kill the nations unborn so as to import more immigrants.

Had a lot to do with it.

Dispite the massive number of volunteers the threat of conscription was what provoked the war of independence.

>abortion is about women's rights
I hate this meme.

That's the thing. We actually don't. There are so many people who hate themselves and who could blame them. It is nice having foreigners around, just to break the monotony and get different perspectives, but I take exception when a noticeable percentage of the country or of Europe for that matter are interspliced as a means of destroying our cultural and genetic heritage. Fuck that shit.

And fuck you too you leftish nation hating piece of filth.

That's pretty much what the abortion industry eels to. Thanks for summarising it so neatly.

trendy lefy wing anti capitalist supports abortion industry lobbyists and can't see the hypocrisy.

With you.

Tired of abortion industry lobby buying out Irish urban thinking. Another attempt to literally kill us off.

What's mature about it? Why is he against them? Does he consider it to be murder? If so, why does he still think it should still be legal?

>Anyone who plans to vote repeal needs to think hard about what side they're on. We're one of the only countries in Europe with a birthrate high enough to not need mass immigration, you'll be voting to change that

This ^

Slow genocide by brainwashing and abortion.

The abortion industry is sick. You know that they sell the remains of the foetuses onto corporations like Pepsi and Tropicano to make fruit drinks test better? I don't think they are an actual ingredient, but still I don't want dead babies as an part of the process in making the food that we then feed to other babies. It's fucking sick and it needs to end.

What's the eighth? Is it about abortion?

O'Connell. Parnell.

Funny how all these leftish forget the penal laws.
Hail, Glorious St Patrick
Hail, glorious Saint Patrick, dear saint of our Isle,
On us thy poor children bestow a sweet smile;
And now thou art high in the mansions above,
On Erin's green valleys look down in thy love.

On Erin's green valleys, on Erin's green valleys,
On Erin's green valleys look down in thy love.

Hail, glorious Saint Patrick, thy words were once strong
Against Satan's wiles and an infidel throng;
Not less is thy might where in heaven thou art;
O, come to our aid, in our battle take part.

On Erin's green valleys, on Erin's green valleys,
On Erin's green valleys look down in thy love.

In the war against sin, in the fight for the faith,
Dear saint, may thy children resist unto death;
May their strength be in meekness, in penance, their prayer,
Their banner the cross which they glory to bear.

On Erin's green valleys, on Erin's green valleys,
On Erin's green valleys look down in thy love.

Thy people, now exiles on many a shore,
Shall love and revere thee till time be no more;
And the fire thou hast kindled shall ever burn bright,
Its warmth undiminished, undying its light.

On Erin's green valleys, on Erin's green valleys,
On Erin's green valleys look down in thy love.

Ever bless and defend the sweet land of our birth,
Where the shamrock still blooms as when thou wert on earth,
And our hearts shall yet burn, wherever we roam,
For God and Saint Patrick, and our native home.

On Erin's green valleys, on Erin's green valleys,
On Erin's green valleys look down in thy love.

If there really will be a referendum called after all I've half a mind to hold off on the holiday home I was planning to take next month. I wish those of us in universities abroad had a proxy vote option of some sort.

Abortion is a globalist industry part of a toolkit to dismember nations.

It was subverted during the cold war.

>Incredible dissonance there mate. I wish I had the ability to de-humanise that well. Once again it's the argument that a foetus isn't human based on specific man made criteria. It's this kind of conceit that's destroying the west.

Well said. Repealing the 8th is a step towards abortion as a form of contraception which is what it became in the UK.

Even funding the eugenic decimation of the population to suit the abortion industry's needs to open up a new market?

Ireland was a mistake

>Once again, it isn't the fault of the baby, which has half of your own gentic material anyway. You can't punish one human being for the crimes of another person.

Well said.

It is not actually in the constitution.

I support neutrality though because enough Irish people have already been used as cannon fodder by foreign officers.

I hear Brit bongs get to vote in our land for some reason. Suspicious, I know. But honestly if a load of pro-life britbongs came to vote in our ref I wouldn't mind at all. The Irish abortion industry is probably worth money to them anyway, if they can stomach it.

>I wish abortion was legal 15 years ago so your mother didn't have to put up with whatever mental condition you have for all this time.
Back to tumblr you stupid cunt. I fucking hate how heavily bluepilled most Irish people are.

your ID says you are gay for America.

We all no that is an introduction of abortion via the back door because the pro abortion lobby don't want a straight up confrontation.

Even the pro-abortions will admit they see it as a step towards free public funded abortion on demand.

The abortion industry needs its MONEY.

Until recently you couldn't get an abortion in Ireland under any circumstances.

Then there was a bunch of incidents where pregnant women were being kept alive artificially so they could carry a child to term while literally decomposing on a hospital bed and now you can kind of maybe get one possibly if doctors agree it would probably be okay sort of.

People want to get rid of the constitutional section that bans them because it's retarded. Like just about everything the Irish Government does.

rebeccakiessling.com/

This woman was born of a rape. Her mother is glad she has her as a daughter.

Unsurprisingly she is anti-abortion.

You'd rather she was in a bucket before she was born?

>If you want to legalise abortion in the case of FFAs, you have to repeal the 8th. That is my point.

Yes but you are debating with someone who is pushing a deliberate deception and is pro abortion so they don't care you are telling the truth. They don't care about the truth.

>Then there was a bunch of incidents where pregnant women were being kept alive artificially so they could carry a child to term while literally decomposing on a hospital bed
Kek. Source or a video link? Did the baby survive?

More lies from the abortion lobby and their ever so trendy brainwashed hipsterite self loathing followers,

I mean you can get one IF the mother is at risk.

And by at risk I mean basically a corpse with a working uterus that only feels pain and misery. And even then you only ger one if you're lucky and the stars are right and a black goat walks through a church during mass.

I'd vote repeal by the way. I wouldn't wany ANY children being born into this shithole of a country/world at all. Also it's a womans body, her choice etc etc.

You'd repeal because you are SJW lost in the wrong place. fuck off out of here or even better to London where you belong and you can cheer the abortion industry in action and enjoy mass immigration..

I'm fairly sure they can only vote at the Dáil and Euro parliament level, though I could be wrong. Don't even see the sense of those voting rights, let alone a referendum that would have small enough an impact on them. Proportionally speaking, I mean.

I feel like we're so behind on voting rights abroad compared to the rest of the western world, especially if you're a student. I've a visa, not a green card or dual citizenship. Ah well. Flight back will have to be planned accordingly.

Listen mate, just because a priest diddled you and now your world view is all fucked up with your weird Catholic stolkholm syndrome don't take it out on us.

>And even then you only ger one if you're lucky and the stars are right and a black goat walks through a church during mass.

Are we all stupid peasants that need correcting by sjws schilling for the abortion industry?

You're not even Irish 'mate' despite your flag,

So fuck off back to London and take your sjw Roman Catholic hating friends with you.

>gay marriage
>wrong decision

nice meme

I'm anti-immigration. So is my wife.
It's actually one of the reasons I'd repeal. In 50 years Europe is going to be infested with niggers and shitskins and we don't want to bring a child into the world so it has to breed with some disgusting third world ape.

The funny thing is that a lot of people votes for it precisely because they wanted the gayeees to experience the wonderful divorce industry,.

Abortion is another matter entirely.

I think abortion is a necessary evil in the states, for keeping the nigger population down.

That's a nonissue over in Ireland though, good luck lads.

Free to write yourself out of history without dragging others into your private oblivion.

Keep the 8th. The abortion industry is a tool of eugenics to exterminate working class Irish people and replace them with scattered divided immigrants. Kill, divide and conquer.

Same game. Different century.

Thank you. Write to your congressional representative and ask them why the state department is spending your tax money funding pro abortion lobbyist groups in Ireland against the democratic will of the Irish people as expressed in multiple previous referendums.

Why is your tax money being spent abroad to try and subvert democracy?

Why are you atheists such a bizarre can of worms? You think it can't get any worse and then it does. It's hilarious to me the depths of your depravity. Keep on truckin' i've got my popcorn ready.

The pro abortion lobby contains every single element of the people who hate the native born majority of this country and want to see them destroyed..

>tfw the fact that our language is dead means globalism will hit us even harder
feels bad man

Its already destroyed you silly cunt. Thousands of natives leave every year because the government fucked everything so they move to Canada, Australia and New Zealand while thousands of immigrants come in.

Ireland as you want it is dead. There js You got your republic and screwed it up as only the Oirosh can (by electing greedy cunts to Government then shrugging and saying "not my problem") . The smart ones are leaving to go and attempt to keep things going in less shitty countries.

You are not Irish.

Like all pro abortionists you need to try and deceive.

Want to tell readers what nationality, religion and race you actually are?

BTW You don't get a fucking vote and you know it as it is a constitutional matter.

Si why are you a foreigners schilling so hard for abortion?

If you hate Irish people so much why don't you go to your home country?

>kill the nations unborn

Can't kill what isn't alive. Also you don't need to import immigrants

christ, that's horrendous. fucking religion

Oh god. Oh god I didn't realise you were literally retarded. I'm sorry. What priest do to the mentally impaired in this country is a disgrace.

>Oh god. Oh god I didn't realise you were literally retarded. I'm sorry. What priest do to the mentally impaired in this country is a disgrace.

You seem obsessed with schilling abortion slagging off Irish people and pushing abortion.

Go home. Its degenerate thrash like you that came here that are harming this country.

That's very british off you old chum. That's why your country aborts millions of white working class babies is it? The abortion industry needs the money?

>what isn't alive
Britbongs don't even have the basic wherewithall to know what constitutes life. Let me help you;
a table; isn't alive
a plant; is
a clock; nope
a baby; yep

The other retard you replied to has yet to post any proofs and is a degenerate.

One or two homosexuals kiddy fiddelers in the priesthood is not a good enough excuse for murdering babies, no matter how hard you try to justify it to yourself and you know it.

>What priest do to the mentally impaired in this country is a disgrace.

Again with the Irish people are peasants to be lectured to by a FUCKING IMMIGRANT.

You know how the ID system on Cred Forums works right? We can see your constant samefagging.

No, it's because people don't want kids. Nothing more.

Until the foetus is viable it's not even up for debate.

U se you for what you are.

A britbong dolehead who moved here to escape the shithole you've made your own country who sits in an uban area to afraid to be man and raise a family and sneaks off onto pol to rail about the immigrants that ruined the UK while working hard to trey and destroy the nation that gave him refuge.

Admit you are not Irish by birth because its fairly fucking obvious.

Want to know one of the things that helped destroy your own country?

Free abortions for working class native born women as a form of contraception. A wretched immoral and squalid one.

This meme again. The viableness of the foetus as you have it is an arbitrary standard with absolutely no scientific merit. From a scientific stand point life begins at conception and only a complete autist would say otherwise.

>No, it's because people don't want kids. Nothing more.

Lots of contraception around. When you have made a potential new life then its about eugenics. Stokes always saw this as a way to exterminate low income brits and you bought the lie that it is every a human solution instead of seeing for what it was, a degenerate tool of extermination.

...

"We’ve all heard someone say:

“I’m pro-life, well, except in cases of rape . . .”

or

“I’m pro-choice, especially in cases of rape !”

Have you ever considered how really insulting it is to say to someone, “I think your mother should have been able to abort you.”? It’s like saying, “If I had my way, you’d be dead right now.” And that is the reality with which I live every time someone says they are pro-choice or pro-life “except in cases of rape” because I absolutely would have been aborted if it had been legal in Michigan when I was an unborn child, and I can tell you that it hurts. But I know that most people don’t put a face to this issue — for them abortion is just a concept — with a quick cliche, they sweep it under the rug and forget about it. I do hope that, as a child conceived in rape, I can help to put a face, a voice, and a story to this issue.

In reply, some have said to me, “So does that mean you’re pro-rape?” Though ludicrous, I’ll address it because I understand that they aren’t thinking things through. There is a huge moral difference because I did exist, and my life would have been ended because I would have been killed by a brutal abortion. You can only be killed and your life can only be devalued once you exist. Being thankful that my life was protected in no way makes me pro-rape.

Thank you to my 100% pro-life heroes!

~ Rebecca
"

rebeccakiessling.com/

Not a life...not a human...not a baby...lies